Playing $10/$20 Dirty Dozen Mix on Phenom Poker

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In this video we are playing $10/$20 Dirty Dozen Mix
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[@edwardhalmarack4667]

in nlo8 monker solvers top 35% doesnt include 23j9 ds so where does 4578 ds be top 40-50%? so utg raise and call you are calling a huge amount of hands here if 4578 ds is in range.

[@learnmixgames]

Would not use NLO8 monker sims to compare ranges. My guess is there is a huge discrepancy between two games. Also...would much rather have 4578ds vs J923ds here anyway given the raise/call. Can definitely make the argument that 8754ds is a fold here. Probably close to neutral EV to be honest..rake probably makes it a fold. In game just waffled on the decision.

[@edwardhalmarack4667]

@@learnmixgames j923 is fave vs 4578 though and certainly higher up in a shoving range. i wiuld actually prefer to shove 4578 unopened that play a 3-4 way pot with middle cards. but either way your vpipping around 40% + here unless your folding better hands and calling worse hands that wouldnt make much sense to me.

[@learnmixgames]

You're talking about shoving in a limit game. That just doesn't compare . I think what is happening is that you are comparing the hot/cold equity of the hands vs each other. A rough example would be in limit hold'em if you had 22 vs AKo. 22 has a higher EV all in vs AKo but AKo is an open/raise/reraise/reraise from any position in even 9 handed limit holdem where 22 ONLY open raises in the SB...every other position it folds if given the chance to open.
FWIW there is also another thing to consider and it has to do with the action that has already happened. When it goes raise/call in a 6 handed O/8 game, hands that were supposed to be folds now become playable because of card removal. J923ds is still a fold because the structure of the hand is so bad but I thought a hand like 8754ds could now be a call.

[@edwardhalmarack4667]

@@learnmixgames yeah i understand that. i dont know the answer but the main question is what will be the difference between a for instance 35% shoving range in nlo8 and a 35% opening range in flo8. the fact its very likely to goto the flop in flo8 surely will alter the top 35% slightly. personally i would fold j923 and 4578 in that spot and they are fairly close on the spectrum. i feel 4578 plays far far worse vs raise and call all your straights pretty much make a low or and 2nd 3rd nut the low is not strong and will be the same 2nd 3rd 4th nut low most often. i think if your serious about coaching mix fames you need 2 look into making a solver for all games at least the common 8 games ones. then you would be at the top of the mixed coaching world until then we are slightly guessing about even well known games here. just a idea glgl

[@edwardhalmarack4667]

@@learnmixgames so you would bet vs any 4 4578 ds and i have j923 ds? or vs raise and call range you would choose 4578ds over j923 i think i take j923 in all 3 spots and fairly sure it would be like 0.0x% edge