Heat Pump - Running & Install Costs (vs Gas)
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Now I have some solid data to point in the direction this heat pump is going in, I can finally answer some of your questions.
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A properly useful video that provides really critical information for those of us trying to work out where we are going with all this. Thank you.
Very true. I'll get a heat pump, but I don't expect an ROI
Also, realistically, I need to upgrade my pipes, and radiators first. I want some more solar panels too
Very interesting, EVM. I'm quite smug in that my expectation has been confirmed! If you install a heat pump for financial reasons...at best, if you have a suitable house and a 'good' installation....it costs a fortune to acquire and takes about 100 years to break even!
If you have the funds available.. and are able to take the long view.. and want to do your bit to save the planet, etc - then it's a nice system...if you buy enough tech to support it(batteries etc..)
The problem, for the moment, seems to be that it really IS too expensive for most people - as an overall system.. and there are SO many variables - house, use case, quality of install etc etc...that it just doesn't feel like a good idea.....
The situation badly needs to get some standardisation and some maturity........
Great to see you are enjoying your ASHP, I have had mine for 9 Months and I am finding the same result as you, we keep nice and warm with it running at 19 degrees celcius and a drop to 17 overnight. We are keeping lovely and warm and over the recent cold days later in November, we have been using 22 to 29 kWh while ambient temps are between 6 and 9. We have been using the ASHP to do hot water as well as heating, and we used 209kWh for the same dates and we have a 5 bed home!
How does it cope with a week or more of minus C temperatures ?
@@jimmyjohnstone5878 I have actually turned my temps down to 18C and still found my home very warm. We are generally at home all day, so I have opted to use the 24 hour on option. With -6C overnight temps and not getting above zero for most of the past 2 weeks, it worked amazingly, but obviously heat demand was higher and this pushed up the electricity use. Also my walls insualtion has broken down and is awaiting removal and replacement in January.
Inside of exterior wall is 3c to 4c less then room temp. Measured by resting one of my thermometers against the wall and comparing to another moving it a meter from the wall at same height.
I also have a detatched 5 bed home and roof insulation was increased to 270mm last year.
So average temps for day of 7c used about 20kWh for Central heating and hot water.
5-6c was 25-30kWH
2-3c was 31-40kWH
1 or less (over 7 days) was 42 to 55kWh
I have a Midea ASHP and have been taking readings from their app on a daily basis. These are average temps and many have been -6c overnight and keeping at zero or maybe 2 to 3 daytime since start of December.
Hope that helps
@@Jaw0lf
If I read your analysis correctly, when the temperature drops right down it costs up to 55kwh/day. That could be over £500 a month in the winter!
@@Mark.D.H. I did see those figures when it was -7C but then we have a lack of insulation in our walls. Resting a thermometer against an outside wall, it measured 4 degrees less than when moved 60cm away at the same height within the room.
I am in process of trying to get insulation fixed! Also, the price you reached doesn't take account of cheaper energy at night as well as the temperatures do not often stay below freezing for many weeks.
17c or 19??? My lounge temp dropped to 19.1c during the recent freeze, this temp IS COLD for us.
Thanks for the real world numbers. I have oil heating in an old house. Need to insulate and it’s time for me to step up👍
A masterclass in straight forwardness, well done. Can hardly wait to see further data, especially December, writing this on 12 Dec, had sub-zero temps for several days, -8C this morning. Output from our solar panels is modest to say the least, especially when cloudy. I suspect the shoulder months of September and October are the sweet spot, modest heat requirement and still good output from solar. Looking forward to a full month by month breakdown.
I am starting the consideration for a massive home upgrade in 2024, so I cannot wait to see the data from EVM as well. I live in Yorkshire with south facing roof, plenty of garden space and side alley space for all the energy production I need. I know it'll not be cheap, but if done right I'll have annual savings straight away and it's a great way to ensure the next owners are already as off the grid as they can be.
Thank you for your experience on this trip. I am researching to see if it will make sense for me and wife to switch to a heat pump system.
I'm having air heat pump fitted this Friday. I have 8 solar panels and will be definitely thinking of the battery Inna near future
I'll also be making video about my journey with it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Does the heat pump freeze over during the winter and stop working? If not, how does it continue to work?
How much did it cost you to replace radiators to have larger surfaces due to the lower temp, to suit the heat pump?
What is the annual servicing cost for the £13.5K heat pump, how long is its design life, and is there theft insurance for it given that it is outside?
How hot is your hot water, for showers etc? The hotter it is, the less cold water you mix with it when you use it.
How much does your solar panel electricity production helps out with the electricity cost of the heat pump?
Thanks for another great vid. You make the valid point early on that not everyone can afford an ASHP or the solar battery set up you have. Near the end though you share the fact that you and your wife made a choice to spend your money on this and not a new kitchen. It's really important for us all to understand that making a contribution to getting to net zero and beyond IS about making choices with that in mind. How many couples are out there prioritising 'a new kitchen' or other big ticket spend over a more environmentally savvy choice ...... Plenty I imagine!
I have an very Eco house, extremely well insulated, Solar PV and Thermal, House battery, had EV since 2015, haven't flown for many years, grow our own veg etc. etc. My mates, with similar demographic = Jack sheete ... very disappointing. They all seem to think that the problem doesn't apply to them. "No raindrop thought it created the flood" ...
@@ecok And you've made next to zero contribution to climate change. I'm with your mates and the vast majority of country. Just sold our EV. Nissan leaf. Lovely car but monthly payments ridiculous. Now running a Hyundai i10 2008.
@@PabloGarcia-hc8xq No kids then Pablo? Much harder to take/justify a 'bollocks to the planet' stance if you have children.
@@xxwookey Personally I dont buy the doomsday scenario in the next 100 years. I have every faith mankind will find solutions. A steady and practical transition to renewable energy seems the sensible course. Remember that cold kills around 20 times more than heat. It has been a very bad year for climate catastrophists all round. Coral is growing on the Great Barrier Reef with a vengeance, just a few years after journalists and their ‘experts’ warned it was likely to disappear. According to the latest satellite data, the global temperature hasn’t moved for over eight years. A little extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has led to significant ‘greening’ of the planet, a process that over the last 30 years has undoubtedly reduced world hunger and famine.
@@xxwookey if pablo doesn’t have kids, they’ve probably made a much larger contribution to reducing carbon output than any change you or I may make during our lives. You don’t need offspring to think beyond the end of your own life.
Very clear analysis. However temperatures were still relatively mild during the test period, once it gets very cold I think the cost will be a lot higher than gas.
Nice video, thanks. We were adding AC to our house in MA in 2018. We use oil forced hot-air. The installer asked me if I wanted a heat pump. I knew little about them, but it was about $1000 more than AC since a heat pump is basically AC plus a reversing valve plus a different condenser. I said yes, and to my surprise have been heating the house cheap and clean since then. Oil was about 100 Gallons a month in the winter months. That's about $500 a month now. Electricity cost us $200 more than our old electric bill in the winter.
If you add the heat pump when you add or replace AC, it's a no-brainer.
Very clear and honest analysis, most informative. Will be most interested to hear how you have got on since
Very honest and balanced video. I replaced a 25 year old gas boiler last year with a combi boiler. Would've liked a heat pump but the property wasn't suitable at the time. It's a 1960s semi and over the 10 years we've lived here have spent almost 15K replacing windows, doors, radiators and the boiler. Spent 5k over the summer replacing 20+ year old double glazing. Currently have the gas boiler flow rate at 45C and I'm seeing how that goes over the winter. Looking forward to seeing updates on how you get on with the heat pump.
Did you see a noticeable improvement replacing the double-glazing? We saw an amazing improvement replacing 50 year-old single-pane windows with low-e double glazed. However, we kept some of the original double-glazed set in glass rather than replacing them. I always wonder if going from old double to new double would be beneficial.
Thanks!
@@ShortVersion1 Like you we saw a massive improvement changing the few single glazed windows for double glazed ones. We left the older double glazing thinking they'd be alright. But looking back we should've changed them sooner. One bedroom was always cold, it had a sliding door & a separate large window. Both looked around late 80s double glazing. We first replaced the old 70s radiator for one with fins on the back. The room was now getting warm but the TRV valve would never shut the radiator off, despite it been set in the middle of the scale. Plus we had to window vac the window & door during the winter to remove condensation. We replaced the double glazing 5 years ago. Now the TRV turns off the at the same settings and there's hardly any condensation on the door or window. Plus the noise level from outside is less. Guess it depends if you're having problems with old windows like the room is always cold, the seal has blown or the windows are often covered in condensation. Then it's definitely worth replacing them.
What is your new battery size? Inverter size?
Would be very interested to see how deep you'll discharge your battery during coldest days.
Thanks for very informative figures. Looking forward to another update video in a few months time, perhaps after this winter.
I believe its a Giv Energy 7.8kwh battery. The inverter will be 3.68kw. To maintain battery life its always good to limit discharge to 80% maximum
I found it very informative. From what you describe there is an instant return on investment which I your case (assuming a total outlay of £16500 for the heat pump + solar array and battery versus saving of £550 p.a.) would be 3.4% p.a. Also, IMHO their is no loss of capital and indeed the investment could see improvement in capital growth (when included in house value) as potential house buyers might recognise that the heating system is future proofed. Notwithstanding capital growth, 3.4 % versus some of my other yearly financial provisions for my continued happy retirement is very competitive and I am encouraged to investigate further into changing our system. Thank you.
A very balanced video!
What was the reason to think of getting rid of gas by the way? Is that a safety-related concern? I also like to keep a clean/simple house as well. But again I feel like it would be better to keep two energy sources rather than depending on one. Maybe it makes sense in your case, as you have installed solar energy too. It would be nice to see another comparison video including the yearly maintenance costs of both the heat pump system and the solar panels.
Learning plumbing would be a better investment than spending thousands of pounds on university degrees. Because the initial installation cost and finding plumbers to service yearly will become an inevitable cost. On a day that the UK government mandate installing heat pumps, at least you can buy the unit ( from China maybe 😂 ), work on radiator and pipe size design and install the units to save some money. Also, you can service it yourself yearly to save some money.
The heat pump is surely a great invention. Even in all other cases, people should think more to adopt this concept of harnessing unused energy than generating it from zero. The only barrier is the initial investment. The same applies to electric cars as well. People don't have the confidence to buy a used electric car with old batteries but can't afford a new one. Therefore, it is practical for them to buy an old diesel car expecting to put in some good amount of mileage before they buy the next car.
Thank you for this. I'm giving series thought to one, the man maths you put in reminds me of my calcs for my solar panels 5years ago, that panned out better than expected
Thanks. Nice comparison. We’re still at the increasing insulation stage and upgrading a few radiators before hopefully going down heat pump route at some point. Thanks for sharing your solar install info, but could you share who you chose for the heat pump……. Geographically we’re not too far from you.
As usual spot on the money calculations. Perhaps an update is needed now?
Nice update. Looking forward to hearing about the "other" upgrade
I'd imagine that you'd need to add another 10kWh battery to keep the running costs low.
What somewhat puts me off a heat pump is using all our battery power on it during winter, or having to pay yet more money to get more battery capacity.
Do you need a larger house battery when you get a heat pump?
We have a 9.5 Kwh Givenergy battery at the moment.
Have you got any information for December and January? With increased demand and likely reduction in COP, both caused by the colder outside temperatures it would be interesting to see how much worse it is. I'm trying to get a balanced view over the whole year.
That video is in the channel.
Our price is almost identical to your for a very similar install. We have chosen The Heating People in Widnes. So far they have been superb but we are yet to have our heat pump fully installed. I’ll keep you posted on how we get on with it all.
Thanks for update, very interesting
Do you leave the HP running all the time, day and night? Also do you turn off radiators in rooms not using or heat whole house?
Do you use TRVs on radiators or just a central thermostat?
I'll keep following the progress after a cold winter. We've had an exceptionally warm November and with a gas boiler my consumption is on a different planet lower than yours.
No gas use in September at all, nor the first two weeks of November. Only about £40 so far. Water heated via immersion on E7 which is 11p at the mo. Given inefficiencies of gas, losses and distribution to the tank, that's likely cheaper than the 10p gas slightly per kWh price.
Getting rid of the standing charge is a good point though and my concern is that the electricity prices won't come down much ever.
We've just bought a Tesla, I figure I'll charge that overnight and just sit on it during the daytime, or stick some duct pipes into it and pump the warm air from that!
Out of interest, did you consider inverter AC system at all? That way you'd get the benefit of reversing the heat pump in summer as AC and warm air heating in winter?
Great video. We have the 7kw version of your HP. And for November have got cop of 6.6 for heating and 4.0 for dhw . It has been warm and we're in bristol. We have a little ufh and rads that help. But dhw cop has been helped by only heating to 47 degrees which is plenty for us. And running it in the warmer afternoon. (This does include weekly legionella) if your on time of day tariff that might not make sense. I have independant electrical measuring and I find the vailant control under reports by about 60 watts. And also does not include the two circulation pumps that consume about 15w each..so in the warmer months the power draw is 500w. Vs 1500w in the colder times. So the error is worse in the shoulder months. I would say keep tuning and you could get even more from it. As ours was left by the engineer I have improved cop from 4.5 and 3. Most engineers will priotise heat out put over efficency.
Can you explain the weekly legionella? Do you mean it does a weekly high heat cycle to kill it? Because that’s one of my frustrations with our oil boiler; the water is always too hot for skin, so has to be cooled. It seems like such a waste of energy.
@@therealjetlag We have arotherm HP which can theoretically provide 70degree water . i have it timed to take the cylinder up to 47 degrees each day. then once a week i have a programmed legonella cycle that brings the tank up to about 65 degrees, which should kill off the bugs. as i have kids i had a thermostatic mixing valve fitted on the outlet of the tank, this means the max temp coming out of the taps is 45 degrees regardless of the day of the week! not an expensive addition. Taking the tank up to 65 uses quite a bit of energy, the hp is less efficient at these temprature and the hotter cylinder loses more heat through the insulation so you don't want it this hot more than you need. but once a week seems quite standard. research suggest the risk is far more to do with commercial building and domestic risk is really low.
@@joewentworth7856 Thank you! And yes, I agree that the risk on a domestic supply that is emptied regularly (showers, washing up, etc) seems really low.
Thanks EVM. Do you have your ASHP running all the time to provide background heating? The engineers advised us to do that with our heat pump but after 2 days of being hot at night and looking at the electricity usage we switched to just having it on in the evenings. Typical winter usage is 20-30kW/day, about 2kW in the summer for hot water only. From 10/9-20/11 (so slightly longer period than you) we used 176kW.
Our heat pump was installed in January this year after our oil tank failed and the new regulations for oil tank distance from boundaries and buildings severely limited where the new tank could be (basically in the front garden!). Installation costs were £16k for a twin 9kW LG system, but we are receiving most of that back over 7 years with the RHI grant. My calculations are that (if we were having to buy all the electricity) it’d be slightly cheaper to run than the oil boiler, except with our solar panels and battery we’ll be self-sufficient for about 7 months a year so it should save us each year.
The temp is set and left. Night temp is 2-3c lower.
Weather compensation is very good on this.
Thanks EVM, nice review.
I'm in the states and had oil heating. The oil prices just went up to $5.15 a gallon so I installed a mini split. I'm still gathering data but I expect this to have a payback within a couple of years.
Nova Scotia here - at current oil prices and if we use the same amount as last year it will cost $4500 for the winter. Applied for a heat pump which will hopefully get installed next month.
@@Caspar0s Hi Caspar0s, we are not into the real cold here in the Catskill Mountains of NY yet but we have had a couple of -10°C days and the mini has performed amazingly. I'm tracking power vs temp and the savings is substantial. Fingers crossed when the January weather hits but so far so good.
Hi, fascinating and informative video. As someone who lives in a 2 bed flat in london, currently there is no heat pump solution, so last year I had to replace 20 year old boiler with new one - which wasn't cheap. I hope that at some point in future there is a solution for me. It's great to know that it works for you.
The best solution for urban areas, particularly flats, is district heating.
@@gchecosse Says who? Where's the evidence and what form of district heating do you mean?
I've heard about a pilot scheme in New York that works by attaching it to your window, can work with apartments/flats and has low noise.
For flats the tepo zeb might fit nicely to do the heating and a sun amp to do the hot water but if you have hot water cylinder the sun amp won’t be 100% necessary but be idea if cash was no problem
Thanks for the update, very interesting. Please can you tell me how many kw your new home battery is? I like the idea of using a battery with the off peak rate as that gives the best savings. Also wondered how many kw was heating and how much hot water for the heat pump? I do think installation prices for heat pumps is inflated at the moment, it really shouldn't cost that much but I guess that will come down in the next few years Thanks
We calculated the btu required for each room when we replaced our system, after 6 years no room is too hot or cold , no cold spots in the house , we al so have a gas job and hear the water, our avg useage per year is 9500kwh so well worth working out Wha t btu you need.
How about reliability? Our gas boiler breaks down at least once a year so I'm thinking of changing. How is the reliability and servicing expenses of a Heat Pump.?
Question please, but completely unrelated to this topic.
Your Tesla model 3 do you have to pay road tax/ luxury car tax. If so what is the cost please and does it get cheaper after 4/5 years.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Brilliant information & how long should on average should your heat pump last for before it might need changing? Thanks
Please post an update for this coming week most people on the fence still using on how the original installs (done for the grant money) with poor performance Compared in realistic cold conditions especially when it dropped to -4 or worse particularly the sco rating and cost to heat the water I have had a 2 to 1 for water and 2.8 for heating when it dropped below -0
Very good and honest feedback. I think a suggestion for future thought process is to use your actual data in the various projects to be able to unite them in one for ideas for those whose funds do not cover all areas and need to set priorities. I say this as for sure many can benefit from what paybacks they can expect for properly done projects. I know in my case with my type of house, in Spain, solar installation and batteries were far quicker paybacks.
As always a well put together explaination in laymans terms. These heat pumps are clearly the way forward and like you said if you can afford to do it then do it. Just put up with that old kitchen for a few more years 😁.
My Electric prices has halved after installing my Heat pump (Valiant just like yours)! Even after the price increases!! I was worried about the running costs but from what i have calculated (and currently its -9•C outside) it is working brilliantly. Its costing me approx around 200KWh per month in December! Also im actually not runnibg it 24/7 either as Im on dual tariff and its @24pence per KWh.All I need to do now is to invest in Solar panels as Im south facing! This video has confirmed my decision to go for a heat pump instead of gas! Great video.
The problem in the uk is the cost of fixing solar panels and heat pumps and also standing charges where even if you don’t use anything you still pay. In my moms house in Poland she had 28 solar panels fitted and instead of radiators she has IR panels (infra red panels) which are a type of plastic which heats up when electricity passes through it. The total cost of fitting the solar and IR panels was about £10k. She just received her 6 month electricity bill and it was £30. Throw in the fact there’s no council tax there and you start to see the difference.
Absolutely love you branching out to other electrical items and especially home items. Any chance you could do home automation items like thermostats or radiator valve controllers. Anyway love all content
Brilliant explanation and man maths. It seems heat pumps could cost £2500 according to Octopus. I already have a Growatt 6.5KWH battery and our useage is within it's capacity. I'm thinking of adding another 6.5KWH battery so the question is could 12KWH get us through the day with a heatpump? Please let me know what hot water system you are using as this would mean we could manage without gas?
Heat pump does the hot water.
Hi,
Do your solar panels and batteries provide enough energy to power the heat pump and how many solar panels do you have?
Thanks for the update. What power is your ASHP? It will be useful to see how you go on over winter wrt COP.
I've had to quotes so far 14kW and 17kW for a reasonably well insulated 200 m2 house. IMHO about twice what is needed but the installers state they have to comply with the MCS scheme in order to get the £5k grant.Total heat demand has been deduced as 30k kWh/yr.
It seems that ASHP are being over specified because of the MCS scheme just like gas boilers are currently.
There is a YTer Michael de Podesta who works thru the calcs based on annual gas usage worth a watch.
this is the best video I have seen on the subject.
Thanks for another great video. Looked at heat pumps for last 3 years and still on the fence had 2 quotes in last 3 months and were in two minds
Thanks Andy, very interesting. Have had a heat pump for nearly 5 years now, in a house that is very old, with thick stone walls, so insulation is poor. My install costs were about the same as yours, though running costs are quite a bit higher. The solar makes a bigger difference on your running costs than I would have guessed. All I need now is the money for a solar install!
You might be better going for a battery instal - you'd be benefiting from moving the cheap electricity from night-time to all through the day.
Maybe better would be some insulation and airtightness? EWI on a stone house makes a _really_ efficient building with loads of thermal mass, large decrement delay. 80% reduction is heating load is typical (depending how bad your windows are - those might need upgrading too in due course.)
I've got an old house with thick stone walls too with an ASHP. Having had it for 12 months I think our electricity bill is about 50% cost over Dec-Feb so seems really expensive in the winter, but very cheap in summer. For us it about balances out over the year to gas. And we don't have the gas standing charge as an added bonus. Thick walls are good insulators as long as they are dry!
Are you/will you be using an Induction hob/electric oven?
Hi, I have asked you before in the comments, do you run your heating through the night in this cold weather or do you turn it off before you go to bed ? If so what time does it have to come on to get your house warm again to 20 degree C . Thanks
Great analysis...we're at £50 per month to fuel our 4 bed detached house (nov22) with the temperature at a constant 22 degrees and water at 55. Solar, battery and HP are superb when combined with off peak energy rates. The payback will accelerate when we go EV next month.
And how much is your EV going to cost? Gen 1 Leafs are min £8000. How many years before you actually achieve payback on that? Petrol prices dropping fast so maybe better to buy a cheap car for a £1300. EVs will not last the distance. The world has insufficient reserves of minerals such as lithium and cobalt to continually replace all the batteries needed for Net Zero every decade, a report for the Finnish Government has said a few weeks ago.
Don’t be so stupid, you are a capitalist environmentalist. Can you not see the irony of what you are doing.
Many people just do not have any capital to make payback an option. Many would probably need a payday loan at 100%. This eco fantasising and virtue signalling all seems very much a rich man's game at the moment. i.e. 4 Bedroom detached house! November was a mild month so not a great indication and this idea of tearing out viable equipment to replace it to save the planet is just not an option. We are in a war sanctions and retaliation situation at the moment so Gas prices will come down and the present situation is hardly typical. Electricity supplies have been very flaky and coal stations have been fired up so imagine what it would have been like if everyone was an eco warrior and running an EV and Heat Pump in these still conditions and with little sun in winter. My gas fire is a valuable backup if the electricity does fail which nearly happened. Probably we do need sustainable systems but they are just not here yet for most of us and this current late in the day panicked intimidating and shaming rush for non existent capital investment, in what are times of great austerity and shortages, will do no good.
What's the total cost of your solar battery system including installation and what's the size?
Just curious what is your configuration of batteries. Last time you had givenergy 8.5kwh
Great video, very interesting. Your comment about the negative comments were spot on. I really don't get why so many people get so cross about EV's, renewables, heat pumps etc. They're better on basically ever metric you look at apart from price at the moment and that will change with time especially as the cost of gas and associated items have their prices adjusted to reflect the damage they inflict on the environment.
I always find the best way of challenging the anti's is to get them to explain why it's better to send billions to despicable Middle Eastern regimes, Russia etc rather than invest it into renewables, storage etc in this country.
How insolate is your house? And what temperature is set ?
I've got same setup as you etc, but how did you get them efficiency info, looks like from tank, but those are not on my one. I love mine so much. Saved tons of money and my house hasn't been warmer. Lors of things I hear are totally crap.
Press both buttons together on the unitower.
Total yield is cop.
@@ElectricVehicleMan thanks
It does sound as if it really helps to shift grid draw to off peak via solar and batteries in order to make the numbers work alongside the pressing need to change the boiler anyway. Particularly given the price cap is artificially depressing electricity prices atm and this won’t last for much longer bringing the gas and electricity prices closer. Sadly I changed my boiler a couple of years ago so an ASHP May not be a realistic option until the next house either.
What is the start up draw of the heat pump? What is the average draw? Im thinking of an off grid situation, using a gennie to start the heat pump, and run from battery and solar where possible.
A slightly contrary view, although I recognise the desirability of the HP. For us, the complications and costs of an HP install simply made going for one impractical. So instead we installed a Viessmann 050-W combi boiler which has an efficiency rating of up to 97% which is combined with a Nest thermostat connected via the Opentherm protocol.
Balancing radiators, turning on eco modes for heating and dhw and dialling down the heat using the Nest scheduling means the boiler is not asked to do as much. Burns are modulated by the Nest over Opentherm so are more efficient.
This cost £3k. The daily charge for gas is still there of course as is the cost of gas - 3x higher than a year ago. But, installing the HP would have meant a major investment into what is *not* a ‘forever’ home. So the Viessmann simply made more sense. Gas consumption has dropped by around 50% by comparison with the old boiler.
This is a bit sad as in an ideal world we would have gone for an HP. But this is not a ‘forever’ home and the HP was simply too expensive and presented too much hassle to house and install. I suspect I am not alone…
Congratulations for your energy mix! let's not forget the health and environmental benefits of HP technology that does not generate noxes (NOx, CO2, etc.) as is the case with natural gas heating installations
Thanks for the update - will be interested in your next update.
Your figures for gas usage are miles out. Our 3 bed in Northern Scotland used 400 kWh of gas with the heating on all the time! Our brand new heating system was £1700. Luckily our gas comes from a whiskey digester.
Hi, do you have any resources to help calculate the difference between District Heating/Heat Networks vs a Heat Pump? For context I'm locked to £1.38 per day in standing charge and £0.155 per unit kwh. I'd like to swap ASAP - TIA!
Good on you for reducing your gas consumption. Spot checking the north west England grid gas is currently 8% of the electricity for your heat pump with the rest being wind and nuclear so there's a multiplying effect with the switch to electric heating.
What heating system do you have and what square meter is it trying to warm up? Thanks
Great informative video. Always good to get real world stats. Totally agree that you have to want these technologies and look at the long term cost. It's highly unlikely energy prices will ever go back down to what they were last year. I did put a 25% deposit down on a home storage battery with First4Solar back in February but unfortunately they haven't installed it. So after many months I had to cancel. Still waiting for a refund 2 months later!
Hmmm. That worries me as I paid the deposit in August, was told installation in 2-3 months then got a message saying "mid-January 2023".
@@TonyOrc at least you got a message. I had to chase them!
Not heard good things about them unfortunately
My friend used Zanussi solar and had problems with them i.e didnt even wire the battery up right so it wasn't even charging the batteries up so wouldn't recommend that company
You are not on your own with First4Solar. Aftrer waiting 24 weeks with no sign of any install promise, I too cancelled, although I did get my deposit back after complaing to HIES. It appears to me that they are advertising and collecting deposits for orders that they cannot fulfill.
Can you (very kindly) advise? I got a quote from Octopus that requires a huge amount f preliminary work; then a quote from a chap that I know would do a good job - for £15k because not MCS registered. Two heat pump companies contacted - no responses!!!!!
Cracking video.
Think I’m right in that you can only get the government grant if there are no outstanding suggestions on your EPC. That can be a big one for people.
I use a 16kw ASHP(A2W) to heat my home and hot water for over 4 or 5 years, I live in country side. These machines are definitely more efficient than a gas/coal boiler and they run cheaper but the fact is, once you run out of warranty time and if they break down (which they definitely will), they take away "atleast" 1 year of savings over a fossil fuel lol. They are expensive machines. With a gas boiler or combi, the most expensive part inside the machine would not exceed 70€+labor+logistic, these machines are much simpler machines compared to a heat pump. If you are living in a town/city that has natural gas line, that's the best option to go without any discussion economy wise (if you are some greenpeace person, that's another case). If you are living somewhere country side, your most comfotable and efficient option is the heat pumps.
Awesome. Better than I expected. We’re considering air to air strongly down to me working from home and air con becoming a necessity during the warmer months and the portable air conditioner not being enough. However the efficiency of hot water is also eye opening.. I think I’d love a heat pump that can do air to air and air to water at the same time. Is that a thing yet? 🤔
Interesting....
We are considering air to air. Too much remedial work to our old gas system for a wet ashp. We are sticking with immersion heater for hot water for the next year but then swapping the cylinder to one of the all in one air source heat pump cylinders, like the Dimplex Edel Hot Water Cylinder.
Heat pumps can also do cold water with reversing valves. You have to plumb in hydronic fan coils separate from the radiators or infloor heating to blow cool air and dehumidification but yes many units offer this capability. German systems like the Stiebel Eltron, Wolf, System M from Dimplex all offer this.
@@aorange999 now this is something I'd like to see a video on 👌
Yes. Samsung and Daikin offer this. Very clever if you can tolerate the disruption.
My home is heated and cooled by a Lennox Heat Pump. I also have 65 Solar Panels on the roof for the past 14 years. The solar panels are paid off 10 years ago. I live in Huntington NY (Long Island). The thermostat is set to heat at 74 Fahrenheit and cool when the house gets to 78 Fahrenheit. My cost of Electric power from May 1 2022 to May 1 2023 came to $180. No Oil or gas bill. Do heat pumps work? WOW! Yes they do. My Next door neighbor with essentially the same house and oil heat spends $2,100 on oil for heat and hot water plus another $2,400 for Electric. They just have had solar panels installed after i showed them my bills. That will get rid of the electric costs but she still has the oil to pay for.
I'm interested to know the model (and kW) of heat pump you installed?
If the price cap in January was passed on to consumers this would be a lot different. Cap of .67p per kWh for electricity and .17 per kWh for gas ?
You missed out one benefit for the planet, you’re stopping burning stuff. Heat pumps are used widely here in Québec, although we have a period every year when the outside temperatures go too low for them to be effective. A good overview. 😊😅
Wouldn’t quite say’s stopped burning stuff. Okay we have a fair bit of wind generation but here most of our power stations are gas fired. Given even with the losses of burning gas for electricity generation and transmission losses as long the way
Burning stuff for electric generation is quickly dwindling into obscurity . I noticed the largest wind farm in the world on the Dogger Bank coming into operation soon, backed up by a huge Tesla electric battery storage near Hull, and the good news is that Harmony Energy are building another four battery storage sites to keep up with the ongoing creation of wind farms.😊
Thanks for the great video and all the hard work collecting and analysis of the data but........ at my time of life (70's) I couldn't justify the expense. In my defence I do have an EV and solar panels, so if I was younger I would definitely have an heat pump
I am 62 and think exactly the same. I will probably down side before it anywhere near pays for itself in savings.
We are getting a heatpump next year (long waiting time). Gas in the Netherlands is much MUCH more expensive than gas, above that I can't produce gas (I can but not for heating lol) but I do produce electricity (23 panels) so I will earn the cost back much faster.
good video. Well explained!
I have one and love it,no regrets at all .
Really enjoyed this video and I'm pleased to hear that your ASHP is living up to expectations.
I liked your honest and fair comparison of gas v electricity for heating. There are a couple of questions I'd like to ask though.
You didn't include the cost of having your old gas boiler serviced annually in your comparison. All gas boilers are supposed to be serviced annually, so does your ASHP also need to be serviced annually? If it does, how would the cost of servicing compare to the old gas boiler?
Now you've got the ASHP, are you intending to use it year round to provide hot water, or will you continue to use solar power in the summer months to heat water via your immersion heater?
Heat pump powered by solar is way more efficient than immersion heater.
@@ElectricVehicleMan for the very reason you stated in your excellent and very helpful presentation: Solar powered heat pump moves the heat to the hot water at around 310% efficiency whereas the same amount of heat obtained from a solar powered immersion heater can never have an efficiency better than 100%.
White Board videos are my favourite videos. I really struggled getting a heat pump recently, and ended up with a normal boiler replacement. I'm struggling again now with battery storage. Lets not forget that you don't have to pay standing charge for gas anymore
Hi. Adam
Please can you tell me when did the standing charge for gas taken off. Thank you.
@@johnbrewer9833 sorry, I need to clarify. What I mean is that EVM won’t have standing charge once he’s fully off gas because of his fully electric house.
Jeez, Andy...
Great video...
Interesting numbers...
I've just had 5.8kWp of PV, a Gen 1 GivEnergy 5.0HYB inverter + 2 x 8.2kW batteries installed and, over the last 2 months, I've seen that my average 04:30 to 00:30 home load uses approx 60% (6kW) of the (max achievable 10kW) overnight battery charge - which would then leave me with only around 4kW available to power an ASHP on cheaper tariff electricity (at least over the, likely, non-PV winter months).
Since that installation, I've then had a Home Assessment and a £7.5k quote (after BUS) from Octopus for a Daikin 9kW ASHP with 8 radiators needing to be swapped...
Based on your numbers, your average daily ASHP consumption over these 62 days has been 6kW - does that sound about right from your data?
I just can't do the 'man-maths' to decide whether or not I should go ahead with the ASHP - at one point, I thought I'd be saving around £1k a year by not having a gas boiler (it's the only gas 'appliance' we have - which is why I really want to get rid of it) but, having seen your 'actual data' I'm all flippin' confused again...!
I just wish I had some way of calculating a definitive answer to what annual saving I would see so I could make my bloody mind up...!! 🥴
Shouldn't you of included the cost of the battery system in your calculations? Other than that great video.
What if you had upgraded everything. Had solar. And battery. A brand new all singing and dancing 92% efficient gas boiler turned down to 60*. Do you think there would be as much difference??
Vs one that will run at over 4x that? Yes.
INTRESTING food for thought . meany thanks well put together video
Any updates on running costs for us believers?
We're in the pricess of doing the same. Heat pump & solar & battery storage. Expensive? Yes but we are blessed and can afford it. We're doing it for the planet. Thank you!
Well unless you can get the USA, China, India, Africa, South America, Eastern Europe and most of the far East to join in then you are not saving anything.
@@RushfanUK that's why there's COP, the Inflation Reduction Act, European Green Deal and so on. The train is leaving the station whether you get on it or not.
Great down to earth explanation and video. I was wondering how the solution compares to a mini-split system for heating?
Good video. Always helpful to see real world data. You could also look at approximate carbon dioxide emissions for gas heating vs electric heat pump. Over the year the difference will be significant and I believe there is a great deal of value in that which helps justify the installation cost. Our long love affair with cheap plentiful gas made us all completely ignorant to our consumption of energy. Smart meters and electrification, not to mention the energy price crisis is bringing about awareness. Energy use isn’t an abstract concept anymore, it’s part of daily life.
Carbon dioxide emissions is a reason to spend tens of thousands on heat pumps? Carbon dioxide is 0.04% of the atmosphere of which 98% is natural !!!! Hardly a killer gas that's going to destroy the world. Stop watching the BBC.
Great video. Did it cost to have the gas meter removed?
Another great video 👍
Quick question, are you running the heat pump from your batteries and how much kw are you typically using per day
Thanks
It will interesting how it does through freezing cold days like we having now…..as in when you really need the heat. I know they still work but how much efficiency will you lose? I’ve read that some systems can drop to 150% but I don’t know how true that is and how well it was installed.
Yes a COP of 5 during the summer sounds impressive……but who uses their heating during the summer.
This was Sept to November. Not summer.
-4c right now. 👌
@@ElectricVehicleMan I was referring to when you said “you’ll get 500% or more during the summer”.
Do we get a sneak peak in to what you’re getting now or do we have to wait until a future video 😁😁
@@neo_265 I’ve not put anything on my Twitter feed about it.
A lot of comments here, didn't get through them all so somebody else might have said this.
But considering your old boiler needed replacing (can't not have heating in a house) the price of a new boiler & fitting should be subtracted from the cost of the HP; for those people who insist on calculating return on investment.
Thanks for doing a video with the crucial numbers info
Great video , brillant low key advice , will now try and justify and install . A Yorkhireman at his best .
I love the concept and green credentials, but Im afraid the capital outlay will vastly inflate the cost to run a system as you rightly say. I beleive parliament needs to pass legislation to force the house builders to build new houses with south facing roofs and heat pumps as standard, no gas (oil in rural areas) House holders can retro fit PV and batteries if they wish.
👍for First4solar great job thank you guys
Please can you do a video on your battery storage system upgrade? Keen to know if your AHSP can be run entirely from battery storage and have some headroom left for the rest of the house.
Also - what's the duty cycle like? Does it run continuously at a moderate power or on-and-off at high power?
For viewers in Scotland, funding is usually by an interest free loan of up to £17.5K. Grants of up to £5K are only available for a limited number of people living in homes with a poor energy rating who are also on benefits. Source; Warmer Homes Scotland.
Not true
Scots can get loans, but Home Energy Scotland will give you 75% cashback of the value of the loan, so in effect a very generous grant.
eg £10k loan, gets £7500 cashback
What change have you made to your battery storage
When cost come down and the cost of electricity and gas becomes more normalized, then I would consider a heat pump but I don't think I will be installing it untill the boiler goes up the duff to avoid unessecary expenses.
I will be definitely insuring the house is better insulated first, the roof has been well insulated for ages just not sure about the rest of the house.
Just out of interest do you have a wet underfloor system connected to the heat pump?
One question is the servicing costs ? How often is the service plus cost and will the refrigerant in the heat pump need to be serviced / replace every 5 years like in modern cars ? The gases are environment friendly so cost twice as much in modern cars. Could this cost £100 to 200 to recharge the system ? This will be per heat pump.
£150 a year I’ve been quoted. Less than our boiler.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Our boiler gets a service for £60 with full report by engineer who installed it.