@@KR4FTW3RK get yourself a copy of the Simmons-Boardman Locomotive Cyclopedia! While not the greatest technical resource, my copy of the 1950-52 Cyclopedia does at the very least include a single page illustration of the Franklin E-1, but there isn’t a whole lot mentioned about boosters following that illustration
I’m not an engineer (mechanical or otherwise) or even that mechanically minded/savvy but I love hearing about mechanical things so long as the people talking about it are willing to dumb it down a little. You two definitely share the brain cell and hearing you banter back and forth is endlessly entertaining & satisfying to listen to. It’s both good & a shame that Jason is so busy because I would love to see him on the 3/4 idiot show. Yet again greetings from Kentucky. Cheers Hyce. Brilliant as usual! 👍
Great video Mark, can’t get enough of the deep dive 101’s. Especially love the collaboration with other preservationists and creator’s. Showing off steam and railroading history is one thing. But, showing off the highly interconnected community that exists in railroad preservation… That is something that I think will really attract younger people to grab a wrench, join up, and get their hands dirty.
Mark, PLEASE give us more Jason!! The knowledge he has and that both of you have is enough to give damn near anyone a fighting chance to actually learn and get into running steam.
Just to fill you in, I was a Marine engineer for 40 years, the highest pressure equipment was 1200psi at the steam drum. 1000 degrees at the superheater outlet. We would call your heater a DC heater, but we would typically keep it at 32psi from bleed steam. But we kept enough volume in the tank not to have your flash issues. Our condensate pump would pump through various coolers or heaters to raise the condensate, spray but into the DC heater, then gravity feed it to the feed pump, steam, through more heaters to the steam drum. We would have either 1st stage steam heater, bleed steam, and or stack gas heaters to get the feed water close the temp of the saturated steam. Depending on who built it, and where. Combustion gas was also heated by either or both steam heaters, and combustion gases. The steam from the feed pump exhausted to the DC heater, the extra was dumped to the condenser, and if was insufficient was made up from either bleed steam, or live steam make up. Yes I understand your rats nest of plumbing. Have fun
We may think Hyce knows everything but in reality, he's just a dude that knows a thing or two because he's seen a thing or two. 🎵He is Hyce! bum dabum bum bum bum bum!🎵
The smartest and most wise people are always learning and have no qualms, saying they don't know something and that they are not smart. Before my mother died, she really wished I could have taken tips on steam trains and seen the airships . It's really awesome that there are people like you who are so passionate about steam to care for and bring back to life some of our history.
40:44 / 49:00 So to be sure I get whats happening here: the preheater takes exhaust steam, mixes it with the incoming water from the tender which heats the water to high temps AND condenses the steam back into water (thus the preheater acts like a condenser and heater) and then it goes into the boiler. Thus the train gains 25-30% water efficiency because of the fact that you are effectively recycling a certain portion of your water expenditure infinitely back into your boiler to be reused.
A feedwater heater's efficiency comes mostly from the fact that you're using waste heat to heat up the water. With a live steam injector, boiler steam heats up all the incoming water. With a feedwater heater, the energy needed to heat up the water can come partially from the exhaust.
The key bit to understand is that in BOTH systems the feedwater will be heated all the way to boiler temp (with a live steam injector, this happens partially in the injector, and partially in the boiler. Regardless, the energy is coming from the boiler). The difference is *what* heats up the water.
@@satiric_I think he is refering to the reduced water usage as efficiency. While using less water might techincally not be an efficiency gain, requiring the hauling of less water certainly does increase efficiency. The heater box makes the steam engine more efficient in coal usage by preheating the boiler feed water but also decreases water consumption by reusing/condensing some of the exhaust steam for re-use. This is an efficiency gain on two levels, both water consumption via making and using condensate and coal consumption via pre-heating boiler feed water prior to injection.
When you get people or a group together that is passionate about something the new stuff you can learn and see is amazing. I love this videos Mark. I gain more and more insight to questions I have about these amazing pieces of history every time I watch a video, and new questions also come to. Also who doesn't love when you get to be close and personal to a big choo choo like 2716 and see stuff up close and personal that you have never seen before.
Oh boy, nearly an hour of steam choo choo education nerdiness! There are going to be a lot of edits 7:38 this brought a huge smile to my face for whatever reason 13:32 PLEASE
Fun fact about Booster Trucks, the N&W J-class had them fitted at one point, well one Example, N&W #602 had a Booster fitted, It added over 10k in Tractive effort, from 73,300 lbf, to 85,800 lbf. But it was removed later in life when the J's had their boiler pressure raised, which increased their base tractive effort to around 84,981 lbf.
This was awesome, and wonderful. And yes please, more superpower steam nerdery in the future! I really enjoyed learning about all of the extra appliances put into modern steam. I'd love to hear y'all go down the superheater rabbit hole, and maybe talk about not just feedwater heaters but exhaust steam injectors and the differences between the two systems and maybe pros and cons of each.
I'm don't have much knowledge on steam, but I love this kind of engineering technical talk about the nuts and bolts (literally ) and nuances that go into building and making these things work. Big compliment, you both present these things in very engaging and interesting ways with cool stories to back it all up. It really makes learning about this stuff really fun and enjoyable, keep it up and I really hope you continue doing these collaborations with "thatsteamguy"
Jason and Hyce...This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Ya'll know your shit and it's just comforting to know that somebody out there is smart enough to get these things rolling again without fault.
I may not understand most of the things I hear or see in these videos but I love to see the ins and outs of steam how it all interconnects plus steam trains are just cool.
Hi Mark, I absolutely enjoyed this! My mind is still processing and I will be watching this again. I really liked how Jason explained the engineering of these things. And then you and he build on each other’s expert knowledge it makes for a perfect learning moment! Gigantic choo choo was magnificent. I was so blown away by the single cast engine bed, industrial production in full view. Those period foundries were just amazing. That rod arrangement OMG! And the “firebox chat” was excellent! So liked Jason’s discussion about superheater flues, the differences and all that. And the ultra details like the bolt protector eyebrows. So cool. Great to see those thermic syphons-fab video capture by cameraman Nick. Hearing about the feed water heater was, to echo you Mark, fascinating. Many thanks Professor for another absolutely excellent 101 learning episode, and likewise to Jason for sharing his expertise and I will definitely be checking out his Facebook page to learn even more. Yes Mark please do a superheater 101 episode. Shout out to cameraman Nick for his beautiful filming. As always cheers to you guys!
Hey I just want to thank yall and everyone else that takes their time to really teach people and nurture their interest. I was at a museum that will not be named because honestly the rest of the staff feel like they're doing what they can. but there was one man, an old hand from the steam days doing a tour of a class 1 locomotive he used to run as engineer. all I ever heard out of him is a jab at my apperance and elemntary book discription down to calling the pilot a cow catcher with no neuance on the name. I think honestly he's just tired of shallow questions questions and ignorance but he seems to have set his mind on being a grumpy person and shutting everyone else out; so again, thanks to yall that give a damn.
Jason is hilarious, I love the way you guys bounce off each other too! That tidbit about the feed water heater pump was really interesting and informative. When I got to fire Norfolk and Western 611, the firemen told me that he would operate the pump because "there's a trick to it." I didn't question it, because he obviously knows the engine better than I did. But I was always curious about what that trick was, and always regretted not asking. But I was also preoccupied with working the stoker and watching around that tight curve at Lehmann Place that I'm surprised could handle 611's length and weight... Especially with there being a switch... That was honestly pretty scary from the cab. Side note, that 4-cylinder booster motor is incredible and I had no idea they made them that big. I was also very curious about how it engages/disengages, so big thanks for that!
Interestingly, Southern Pacific, a advocate of the trailing truck booster forgo servicing or rebuilding boosters in the final years of steam operations to reduce cost and eliminate soon to be obsolete parts from the inventory, to prevent engine crews from activating these boosters, shop forces also removed the cab controls.
Its incredible hearing just how complex and well thought out these locomotives are from an engineering perspective. I fly planes for a living and while aircraft are complex machines, they pale in comparison to the amount of raw mechanical and thermodynamic complexity. Keep with the nerd stuff!
egads, you know, it wasn't till you guys were standing by the rod that I clued in how HUGE a 'modern' locomotive is, a raw frame casting 105-120 ton? considering the early locomotives were literally banged out in a shop probably not a whole awful lot better equipped than mine . . . thanks guys.
Seeing as I’m looking to learn more about modern steam, particularly on my beloved Grand Trunk Western, this video could not have come out at a better time! Yes, I’d love to see Superheaters 101! I have an idea of how superheaters work from watching Animagraffs’ Big Boy video, but I’d love to hear more of a technical breakdown on their functionality
Btw, if anyone is interested in learning more about the Grand Trunk Western during the late steam & transition eras (1938-1961 to be exact), then I’d highly recommend you find a copy of “Evening Before The Diesel” by Charles Foss. This book is a wonderful, well researched history of “The Trunk” from their early days as the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada to telling the stories of their 12 subdivisions during the latter years of steam. It was actually through this book that I learnt that everyone’s favorite meme, 6325 (return to steam), had the honor of pulling president Truman’s campaign train while it was running over the GTW in 1948! The book has been out of print for over 40 years, but used copies pop up for sale quite often
Hyce, I enjoyed this immensely. I look forward to your videos like this covering a wide range of railroad and engine workings.. I appreciate all the time and effort that go into making these videos. You're right about the learning thing, I am almost 74 and I am still learning things. I know a lot more about superheaters and firebox design now. Keep up the good work and these videos coming. thanks
Very late with this comment, but here goes: y'all are too funny with the nerdy train stuff, would _love_ to see more. Superheaters 101 sounds like a fine idea. (injectors 101 for good measure.) We need more Jason, please, and more superpower steam content. Those mysterious pipes and appliances are fascinating when someone explains them. I trained in materials science. The answer to the metallurgy question at around 24:50 is: Forming is making a metal into a shape without melting or machining it. Forging is a type of forming which involves heating and beating the metal. so forging is a subset of forming. Others include processes like wire drawing or cold rolling. Also who is 3D printing casting molds? I never heard of that but it's cool as hell. Anyway, thanks for the video!! :)
Lost PLA casting is the new hype in casting - I first heard of it maybe two or three years ago. It's super cool! Rather than making patterns and coreboxes, just 3D print the part, pack it in sand, cast it... the metal melts out the plastic very quick, and you get the part metal-ified. Freaking cool stuff.
@@Hyce777oh dang it's lost-wax casting except 3d printed!?! Here I was trying to work out how one would print a mold out of sand. That's such a neat process and I'm going to have to read it up. Ferrous metallurgy was never my specialty 😊
This is amazing! I totally wondered about switching between the smaller engine to the larger one the moment I heard about there being both and I've only worked on car and motorcycle engines out of sheer necessity. lol I love this kind of stuff! Please do more!
So, I _think_ I understand and can explain how the booster motor disengagement might work: On barring engines of stationary steam plants, the pinion or idler will rotate in a direction that seeks to pull itself *downward* and into the teeth of the bull gear/flywheel to turn the bull gears teeth *upward*. As the main engine gains speed, its teeth rotate faster than the barring engine and _kicks_ the pinion or idler out without any human intervention. Then there's some balancing shenanigans to make the mechanism stay disengaged until manually re-engaged. If it requires manual disengagement, an unattentive engineer could realy break some things... and that's undesirable. I've built a test model in LEGO to verify and the principle seems sound, and lines up with the locomotive running in the forwards directon.
This is amazing! Not only informative but also great fun to listen to. If teachers in school was this in-to what they were doing, it would stick much longer...
While looking at the one-piece cast frame with integral cylinders, did you check to see if that included an integral air reservoir between the drivers? I know at least some of the C&O K4's had one as did the last order of PM Berkshires. I'm not sure about the Virginian 2-8-4s. The thermic syphons looked to have quarter syphon patches with their own smaller patches. Nicholson sold replacement syphons as well as 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 syphon patches, nose patches, and replacement syphon necks. I think the railroads could expect some sort of syphon patch at every class 3 overhaul. My guess would be that 2716 is already on its second full set of syphons. Later Worthington S feed water heater systems had improved pumps developed for the SA system and were designated SSA. PM 1225's giant toilet bowl float is copper. Perhaps the stainless float in 2716 is due to wartime restrictions on copper or is a later improvement.
This is dream content for me, thank you! It’s like the algorithm has said “what obscure information, packaged into a funny, ADHD-friendly video, will be perfect for this guy?” And you came through with it, cheers!
Thanks, Hyce, even I have learned a lot about the differences between the "american way" in building and maintaining locomotive boilers, compared to the european or german way. Never heard about the "eyebrows" near the bolts, for example. Quite fascinating. Good work. 🙂
"Blueprints be damned" is going to be my new catchphrase. Thankfully I am not working on anything that ......well, just don't worry about it actually.😂😅
Hey Hyce this style video is really cool and informative for a person just getting into actively volunteering and running steam of all types, and I bet this style video is not the easiest thing to edit. Hope all y’all have a great day!
Just 16 and a half minutes in, you can see the look on Hyce’s face upon hearing the cylinders are cast into the frame, I think he has officially dubbed this huge WEEWEE as cursed. He’s probably thinking in his head “HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THIS?! HOW DO YOU REPLACE A BUSTED CYLINDER WHEN ITS NOT A SEPARATE CASTING?!”
It's a steel casting with a replaceable cast iron bushing. You can bore out the bushing by about 3/4 inches as the bore wears out of round or tapered and then replace the bushing and start wearing it out again. If the outer steel casting breaks, you first remove the cast iron bushing and then just weld it back together (with appropriate preheat and welding rod) rebore to clean up the casting and finally installing a new bushing.
@@andrewadams3894 I figured replaceable wear surfaces were a thing, better to replace a smaller part than a whole casting. It was stuff like branch pipes, valve and exhaust ports that I was concerned about, but yeah, just welding back over a break does make a decent amount of sense in hindsight.
I have made acquaintance with someone who worked at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in the maintenance department. For their steam engines, every week, they need to be taken out of service and maintained. whereas their Diesels are basically a once a month for a light service, just checking oil, greasing stuff. And once a year go in for a full service. He verbally illustrated to me just why Steam is impractical in the modern age.
That's not exactly the service record of modern stuff, it depends on exactly what kind of engines they are. The most modern diesels only see the shop once every 6 months... For about 8 hours. Then back on the road. Steam is, at best, once every month, for about 4 days...
@Hyce777 he told me this over a couple of beers and burgers, so I don't give it much credence. it could also be that's just what they did/do. the guy is in his 80s, so he might just be telling wives tales
I have some vague memories of the proposed ACE engines and always wondered if they had been designed with modern construction and materials in a way that would reduce maintenance.
Regarding the 3d printed castings, I have a story. My friend owns a 1903 18hp twin cylinder Minneapolis steam traction engine. Originally it came from the factory as a twin stack steam traction engine, where each cylinder exhausted up one of the two stacks, which caused draft issues. So Minneapolis did a field refit kit/recall, in 1908, where they converted it to a single stack. He found the original blueprint of the piece that connected to the boiler to the twin stacks. So then he had a local college convert that blueprint to a 3d model and then had another college 3d print it in to a casting mold, then sent it to a foundry in Rice Lake Wisconsin. he used the factory combiner pipe, then split it again up both stacks. he said it never has drafted as good. I do have a video about 5 years ago, called " LHHR Display 2019, Double stack steam tractor and ramdom clips" According to him it is the only twin stack twin cylinder Minneapolis steam traction engine left in the world as it came out from the factory.
Where in the world did you get a Pennsylvania Northeastern-styled t-shirt? The lettering and color are identical to their locomotive livery. I've never seen such a t-shirt before, and I live next to their rail yard! Real jelly here.
Passionate nerds talking passionately about their nerdy passions: the content we crave!
Shop trains Shop trains go go now now Yes yes ❤🎉😃😃😃 Welcomes to nerding it out about steam Choo.Choo❤❤
"welcome to the adhd"
"holla"
More Jason on the channel PLEASE.
Hear hear!
I think he would make an amazing final 1/4 idiot.
I second this!
Ariba ❤🎉
This is SO GREAT! There is NO technical information about boosters on the internet. Extremely hard to find stuff.
Ya gotta look in books. :)
@@KR4FTW3RK get yourself a copy of the Simmons-Boardman Locomotive Cyclopedia! While not the greatest technical resource, my copy of the 1950-52 Cyclopedia does at the very least include a single page illustration of the Franklin E-1, but there isn’t a whole lot mentioned about boosters following that illustration
@@Hyce777 Or we need a Boosters 101 dedicated video. Hint, nudge, hint, nudge. :)
Hyce isn't short, he's narrow gauge scale.
LOL 😂
"Just a nominal 25-30%"
That's not nominal, that's an incredible savings on something that important resource wise!
Nominal, not normal. Nominal, in this case, means theoretical. On paper, the switch to the feedwater system saves 25-30% on water consumption.
The way Jason matches your energy makes this such an entertaining watch
I could watch you two nerd out like this for HOURS and not get bored. MOAR!
I’m not an engineer (mechanical or otherwise) or even that mechanically minded/savvy but I love hearing about mechanical things so long as the people talking about it are willing to dumb it down a little. You two definitely share the brain cell and hearing you banter back and forth is endlessly entertaining & satisfying to listen to. It’s both good & a shame that Jason is so busy because I would love to see him on the 3/4 idiot show. Yet again greetings from Kentucky. Cheers Hyce. Brilliant as usual! 👍
Great video Mark, can’t get enough of the deep dive 101’s. Especially love the collaboration with other preservationists and creator’s. Showing off steam and railroading history is one thing. But, showing off the highly interconnected community that exists in railroad preservation… That is something that I think will really attract younger people to grab a wrench, join up, and get their hands dirty.
Mark, PLEASE give us more Jason!! The knowledge he has and that both of you have is enough to give damn near anyone a fighting chance to actually learn and get into running steam.
Just to fill you in, I was a Marine engineer for 40 years, the highest pressure equipment was 1200psi at the steam drum. 1000 degrees at the superheater outlet. We would call your heater a DC heater, but we would typically keep it at 32psi from bleed steam. But we kept enough volume in the tank not to have your flash issues. Our condensate pump would pump through various coolers or heaters to raise the condensate, spray but into the DC heater, then gravity feed it to the feed pump, steam, through more heaters to the steam drum. We would have either 1st stage steam heater, bleed steam, and or stack gas heaters to get the feed water close the temp of the saturated steam. Depending on who built it, and where. Combustion gas was also heated by either or both steam heaters, and combustion gases. The steam from the feed pump exhausted to the DC heater, the extra was dumped to the condenser, and if was insufficient was made up from either bleed steam, or live steam make up. Yes I understand your rats nest of plumbing. Have fun
Holy crap, this video was amazing. Just seeing the nerdy banter between these two and seeing Mark light up when he learns something new is just great!
We may think Hyce knows everything but in reality, he's just a dude that knows a thing or two because he's seen a thing or two. 🎵He is Hyce! bum dabum bum bum bum bum!🎵
I believe it was Socrates that said it best. "I only know that I know nothing."
The smartest and most wise people are always learning and have no qualms, saying they don't know something and that they are not smart.
Before my mother died, she really wished I could have taken tips on steam trains and seen the airships .
It's really awesome that there are people like you who are so passionate about steam to care for and bring back to life some of our history.
40:44 / 49:00 So to be sure I get whats happening here: the preheater takes exhaust steam, mixes it with the incoming water from the tender which heats the water to high temps AND condenses the steam back into water (thus the preheater acts like a condenser and heater) and then it goes into the boiler. Thus the train gains 25-30% water efficiency because of the fact that you are effectively recycling a certain portion of your water expenditure infinitely back into your boiler to be reused.
That's essentially my understanding. Not 100% sure that the exhaust steam all condenses but that seems right.
@@Hyce777 thats clever and really neat, thanks for responding
A feedwater heater's efficiency comes mostly from the fact that you're using waste heat to heat up the water. With a live steam injector, boiler steam heats up all the incoming water. With a feedwater heater, the energy needed to heat up the water can come partially from the exhaust.
The key bit to understand is that in BOTH systems the feedwater will be heated all the way to boiler temp (with a live steam injector, this happens partially in the injector, and partially in the boiler. Regardless, the energy is coming from the boiler). The difference is *what* heats up the water.
@@satiric_I think he is refering to the reduced water usage as efficiency. While using less water might techincally not be an efficiency gain, requiring the hauling of less water certainly does increase efficiency. The heater box makes the steam engine more efficient in coal usage by preheating the boiler feed water but also decreases water consumption by reusing/condensing some of the exhaust steam for re-use. This is an efficiency gain on two levels, both water consumption via making and using condensate and coal consumption via pre-heating boiler feed water prior to injection.
I have always wanted to say this. NEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDS!!!!!!!! Absolutely love this, you guys play off of each other so well!
When you get people or a group together that is passionate about something the new stuff you can learn and see is amazing. I love this videos Mark. I gain more and more insight to questions I have about these amazing pieces of history every time I watch a video, and new questions also come to. Also who doesn't love when you get to be close and personal to a big choo choo like 2716 and see stuff up close and personal that you have never seen before.
Oh boy, nearly an hour of steam choo choo education nerdiness!
There are going to be a lot of edits
7:38 this brought a huge smile to my face for whatever reason
13:32 PLEASE
I could listen to the two of them talking all day, great chemistry here!
5:00 exhibit A of camera operator being a creeper
I tried being artsy, then they didn't stop talking... 😅
I could watch this stuff for hours.
Fun fact about Booster Trucks, the N&W J-class had them fitted at one point, well one Example, N&W #602 had a Booster fitted, It added over 10k in Tractive effort, from 73,300 lbf, to 85,800 lbf. But it was removed later in life when the J's had their boiler pressure raised, which increased their base tractive effort to around 84,981 lbf.
superheat 101? yes please!
OMG!!!! NKP 587’s boiler, that’s awesome. Thank you guys for mentioning the booster on Frisco 1522 as well. She’s a favorite amongst us in Missouri.
That's what I'm saying. I'm so happy to hear about my favorite nkp excursion star!🌟
This was awesome, and wonderful. And yes please, more superpower steam nerdery in the future! I really enjoyed learning about all of the extra appliances put into modern steam. I'd love to hear y'all go down the superheater rabbit hole, and maybe talk about not just feedwater heaters but exhaust steam injectors and the differences between the two systems and maybe pros and cons of each.
Perfection Gene Wilder
I'm don't have much knowledge on steam, but I love this kind of engineering technical talk about the nuts and bolts (literally ) and nuances that go into building and making these things work. Big compliment, you both present these things in very engaging and interesting ways with cool stories to back it all up. It really makes learning about this stuff really fun and enjoyable, keep it up and I really hope you continue doing these collaborations with "thatsteamguy"
Big choo choo fun! Me like big choo choo trains railroad thing. Steam restoration big good for train history.
My brain just feels rich drunk of steam knowledge after this. All I can say is wow unbelievable amazing. Details you always wanted to know.
Jason and Hyce...This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Ya'll know your shit and it's just comforting to know that somebody out there is smart enough to get these things rolling again without fault.
I may not understand most of the things I hear or see in these videos but I love to see the ins and outs of steam how it all interconnects plus steam trains are just cool.
Hi Mark, I absolutely enjoyed this! My mind is still processing and I will be watching this again. I really liked how Jason explained the engineering of these things. And then you and he build on each other’s expert knowledge it makes for a perfect learning moment! Gigantic choo choo was magnificent. I was so blown away by the single cast engine bed, industrial production in full view. Those period foundries were just amazing. That rod arrangement OMG! And the “firebox chat” was excellent! So liked Jason’s discussion about superheater flues, the differences and all that. And the ultra details like the bolt protector eyebrows. So cool. Great to see those thermic syphons-fab video capture by cameraman Nick. Hearing about the feed water heater was, to echo you Mark, fascinating. Many thanks Professor for another absolutely excellent 101 learning episode, and likewise to Jason for sharing his expertise and I will definitely be checking out his Facebook page to learn even more. Yes Mark please do a superheater 101 episode. Shout out to cameraman Nick for his beautiful filming. As always cheers to you guys!
Hey I just want to thank yall and everyone else that takes their time to really teach people and nurture their interest. I was at a museum that will not be named because honestly the rest of the staff feel like they're doing what they can. but there was one man, an old hand from the steam days doing a tour of a class 1 locomotive he used to run as engineer. all I ever heard out of him is a jab at my apperance and elemntary book discription down to calling the pilot a cow catcher with no neuance on the name. I think honestly he's just tired of shallow questions questions and ignorance but he seems to have set his mind on being a grumpy person and shutting everyone else out; so again, thanks to yall that give a damn.
I enjoyed all 53 minutes of it.
Jason is hilarious, I love the way you guys bounce off each other too!
That tidbit about the feed water heater pump was really interesting and informative.
When I got to fire Norfolk and Western 611, the firemen told me that he would operate the pump because "there's a trick to it." I didn't question it, because he obviously knows the engine better than I did. But I was always curious about what that trick was, and always regretted not asking.
But I was also preoccupied with working the stoker and watching around that tight curve at Lehmann Place that I'm surprised could handle 611's length and weight... Especially with there being a switch... That was honestly pretty scary from the cab.
Side note, that 4-cylinder booster motor is incredible and I had no idea they made them that big. I was also very curious about how it engages/disengages, so big thanks for that!
Also the bit about the toilet float is exactly how they explained it to me in the 611's cab.
Interestingly, Southern Pacific, a advocate of the trailing truck booster forgo servicing or rebuilding boosters in the final years of steam operations to reduce cost and eliminate soon to be obsolete parts from the inventory, to prevent engine crews from activating these boosters, shop forces also removed the cab controls.
I liked Jason, and then he shouted “MINEFIELD” and now I love him
Its incredible hearing just how complex and well thought out these locomotives are from an engineering perspective. I fly planes for a living and while aircraft are complex machines, they pale in comparison to the amount of raw mechanical and thermodynamic complexity. Keep with the nerd stuff!
It'll be interesting to see jason on 3/4 show. I'm sure he has all kinda of stories.
"Come with me...and you'll be...in a world of OSHA violations..."
This has been my favorite video on your channel in a good long while!
I want more of this... Keep the rabbit holes coming...
Loved this! Definitely want more of you two talking about all this kind of stuff!
egads, you know, it wasn't till you guys were standing by the rod that I clued in how HUGE a 'modern' locomotive is, a raw frame casting 105-120 ton? considering the early locomotives were literally banged out in a shop probably not a whole awful lot better equipped than mine . . . thanks guys.
Seeing as I’m looking to learn more about modern steam, particularly on my beloved Grand Trunk Western, this video could not have come out at a better time! Yes, I’d love to see Superheaters 101! I have an idea of how superheaters work from watching Animagraffs’ Big Boy video, but I’d love to hear more of a technical breakdown on their functionality
Btw, if anyone is interested in learning more about the Grand Trunk Western during the late steam & transition eras (1938-1961 to be exact), then I’d highly recommend you find a copy of “Evening Before The Diesel” by Charles Foss. This book is a wonderful, well researched history of “The Trunk” from their early days as the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada to telling the stories of their 12 subdivisions during the latter years of steam. It was actually through this book that I learnt that everyone’s favorite meme, 6325 (return to steam), had the honor of pulling president Truman’s campaign train while it was running over the GTW in 1948!
The book has been out of print for over 40 years, but used copies pop up for sale quite often
Hyce, I enjoyed this immensely. I look forward to your videos like this covering a wide range of railroad and engine workings.. I appreciate all the time and effort that go into making these videos. You're right about the learning thing, I am almost 74 and I am still learning things. I know a lot more about superheaters and firebox design now. Keep up the good work and these videos coming. thanks
2926 IN A HYCE VIDEO!! Now you just need to come down here and see it!
Yes!
Loving this series! You two present awesome together!
I'm interested in all nerdy bits of steam. Liking all of these information videos about nerdy train stuff
Very late with this comment, but here goes: y'all are too funny with the nerdy train stuff, would _love_ to see more. Superheaters 101 sounds like a fine idea. (injectors 101 for good measure.) We need more Jason, please, and more superpower steam content. Those mysterious pipes and appliances are fascinating when someone explains them.
I trained in materials science. The answer to the metallurgy question at around 24:50 is: Forming is making a metal into a shape without melting or machining it. Forging is a type of forming which involves heating and beating the metal. so forging is a subset of forming. Others include processes like wire drawing or cold rolling.
Also who is 3D printing casting molds? I never heard of that but it's cool as hell. Anyway, thanks for the video!! :)
Lost PLA casting is the new hype in casting - I first heard of it maybe two or three years ago. It's super cool! Rather than making patterns and coreboxes, just 3D print the part, pack it in sand, cast it... the metal melts out the plastic very quick, and you get the part metal-ified. Freaking cool stuff.
@@Hyce777oh dang it's lost-wax casting except 3d printed!?! Here I was trying to work out how one would print a mold out of sand. That's such a neat process and I'm going to have to read it up. Ferrous metallurgy was never my specialty 😊
Loving this content. Learning so much and Hyce and guests make it so much fun and entertaining! 👏
More please. 😎
Fantastic job here. Love to see more like this in the future.
More 101 would be great! Love the mechanical marvels! Thanks for this!
This is amazing! I totally wondered about switching between the smaller engine to the larger one the moment I heard about there being both and I've only worked on car and motorcycle engines out of sheer necessity. lol I love this kind of stuff! Please do more!
A couple steam nerds talking about insane engineering, and efficiency changes from onlh changing one or two pieces on the choo-choo. Lovely.😎
This was an awesome video with Jason! Please do the super heater video!
I really love this
Seeing all the features and design elements of a massive late Steam 2-8-4 and then looking at the same features on my little Chinese Mikado is wild
This man is the Ed Bolian of train restorations 😂
Fantastic video and information. Thanks for doing this.
@33:09, “I put that bug in a box. I put that box in another box. I ship it to myself, and when It Arrives? I HIT IT WITH A HAMMER!”
That's in the outtakes. Lmao
Yes, please. more in-depth steam mechanic talk.
Hyce Hyce please keep doing these long videos!! Wow! I’ve learned more in this video than what I’ve read….
So fascinating!
Keep it up!!
These videos are amazing!!
So, I _think_ I understand and can explain how the booster motor disengagement might work:
On barring engines of stationary steam plants, the pinion or idler will rotate in a direction that seeks to pull itself *downward* and into the teeth of the bull gear/flywheel to turn the bull gears teeth *upward*. As the main engine gains speed, its teeth rotate faster than the barring engine and _kicks_ the pinion or idler out without any human intervention. Then there's some balancing shenanigans to make the mechanism stay disengaged until manually re-engaged.
If it requires manual disengagement, an unattentive engineer could realy break some things... and that's undesirable.
I've built a test model in LEGO to verify and the principle seems sound, and lines up with the locomotive running in the forwards directon.
And apparently, you had to have a separate assembly to run a booster in reverse.
This is amazing! Not only informative but also great fun to listen to. If teachers in school was this in-to what they were doing, it would stick much longer...
While looking at the one-piece cast frame with integral cylinders, did you check to see if that included an integral air reservoir between the drivers? I know at least some of the C&O K4's had one as did the last order of PM Berkshires. I'm not sure about the Virginian 2-8-4s.
The thermic syphons looked to have quarter syphon patches with their own smaller patches. Nicholson sold replacement syphons as well as 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 syphon patches, nose patches, and replacement syphon necks. I think the railroads could expect some sort of syphon patch at every class 3 overhaul. My guess would be that 2716 is already on its second full set of syphons.
Later Worthington S feed water heater systems had improved pumps developed for the SA system and were designated SSA. PM 1225's giant toilet bowl float is copper. Perhaps the stainless float in 2716 is due to wartime restrictions on copper or is a later improvement.
Yes! Yes! More on Steam Tech.
This is dream content for me, thank you! It’s like the algorithm has said “what obscure information, packaged into a funny, ADHD-friendly video, will be perfect for this guy?” And you came through with it, cheers!
Thanks, Hyce, even I have learned a lot about the differences between the "american way" in building and maintaining locomotive boilers, compared to the european or german way. Never heard about the "eyebrows" near the bolts, for example. Quite fascinating. Good work. 🙂
"Blueprints be damned" is going to be my new catchphrase. Thankfully I am not working on anything that ......well, just don't worry about it actually.😂😅
This is so cool!
48:15 I need to see a photoshop of pimped loco with chrome rims (spinners?) and underglow now.
Well, to be fair, when a steam loco is running you may be able to see some underglow near the bottom of the firebox.
@@quintrankid8045 True, and in loco's a 4in exhaust is considered small so neds a 15inch thats chromed, also a steam-turbo blower into the firebox.
Tiny choo choo behind big Choo Choo
moar please :) also, if you have a spare time machine and we could get a tour of the foundry that cast that frame piece...that'd be killer
Enjoy the deep dive into the mechanics. Never hear that anywhere.
Hey Hyce this style video is really cool and informative for a person just getting into actively volunteering and running steam of all types, and I bet this style video is not the easiest thing to edit. Hope all y’all have a great day!
Hyce says he is average, and talks about him and Brett. I believe he meant to say he is Narrow Gauge, and Brett is standard.
Met hyce durning gold rush days last year…. He really is average height
This was awesome. Want more!
Fooooaaaaammmmmeeeerrrrssss!!!!!! 😂
Just 16 and a half minutes in, you can see the look on Hyce’s face upon hearing the cylinders are cast into the frame, I think he has officially dubbed this huge WEEWEE as cursed. He’s probably thinking in his head “HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN THIS?! HOW DO YOU REPLACE A BUSTED CYLINDER WHEN ITS NOT A SEPARATE CASTING?!”
It's a steel casting with a replaceable cast iron bushing. You can bore out the bushing by about 3/4 inches as the bore wears out of round or tapered and then replace the bushing and start wearing it out again. If the outer steel casting breaks, you first remove the cast iron bushing and then just weld it back together (with appropriate preheat and welding rod) rebore to clean up the casting and finally installing a new bushing.
@@andrewadams3894 I figured replaceable wear surfaces were a thing, better to replace a smaller part than a whole casting. It was stuff like branch pipes, valve and exhaust ports that I was concerned about, but yeah, just welding back over a break does make a decent amount of sense in hindsight.
I have made acquaintance with someone who worked at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum in the maintenance department. For their steam engines, every week, they need to be taken out of service and maintained. whereas their Diesels are basically a once a month for a light service, just checking oil, greasing stuff. And once a year go in for a full service. He verbally illustrated to me just why Steam is impractical in the modern age.
That's not exactly the service record of modern stuff, it depends on exactly what kind of engines they are. The most modern diesels only see the shop once every 6 months... For about 8 hours. Then back on the road. Steam is, at best, once every month, for about 4 days...
@Hyce777 he told me this over a couple of beers and burgers, so I don't give it much credence. it could also be that's just what they did/do. the guy is in his 80s, so he might just be telling wives tales
I have some vague memories of the proposed ACE engines and always wondered if they had been designed with modern construction and materials in a way that would reduce maintenance.
Regarding the 3d printed castings, I have a story. My friend owns a 1903 18hp twin cylinder Minneapolis steam traction engine. Originally it came from the factory as a twin stack steam traction engine, where each cylinder exhausted up one of the two stacks, which caused draft issues. So Minneapolis did a field refit kit/recall, in 1908, where they converted it to a single stack. He found the original blueprint of the piece that connected to the boiler to the twin stacks. So then he had a local college convert that blueprint to a 3d model and then had another college 3d print it in to a casting mold, then sent it to a foundry in Rice Lake Wisconsin. he used the factory combiner pipe, then split it again up both stacks. he said it never has drafted as good. I do have a video about 5 years ago, called " LHHR Display 2019, Double stack steam tractor and ramdom clips" According to him it is the only twin stack twin cylinder Minneapolis steam traction engine left in the world as it came out from the factory.
3:57 his laugh either sounds like a villain or alastor from hazbin hotel lmfao
So cool!
superheating 101 yes please
This was the fastest 52 minute video ever (I enjoyed it so much it felt fast lol)
Would *really* love to see superheat 101 video some point!!
Yes please Superheat + Saturated Steam 101!
I'll add my vote for Superheater 101.
I'd like to learn more about the magic things called injectors too.
Still waiting on Auxiliary Tender 101
The big boys engine beds ate als A single cast with the engine
Hell yeah to ALL of this
2716 should be one of the locomotives in choo fast choo furious fr
You should remaster the tractive effort video with Jason perhaps MST3K commentary over it.
Where in the world did you get a Pennsylvania Northeastern-styled t-shirt? The lettering and color are identical to their locomotive livery. I've never seen such a t-shirt before, and I live next to their rail yard! Real jelly here.
HYCE pls go check out the Virginian museum of transportation. if you stay there for a while i guarantee you will see at least one train
And those were the smaller boosters... just wait until Hyce finds out there were TENDER BOOSTERS.. that were much bigger.
What's not to like about two (slightly happy-silly) nerds, talking nerdy steam stuff?! 🤣🤣