Heard you need to add some zeros to your frame rates! Feel free to email me (address on channel page). Loved the vid. I’ve never seen footage of a train whistle up close before. - Gav
Getting to hear the lost voice of so many steam power locomotives and in one case a steam powered ship, it is almost like they are trying to speak from the dead. It makes you wonder about some of their untold stories that they have been part of.
Fun little detail for those who don't know. The Liberty Ship was a design of cargo ship created during the Second World War, with the sole design criteria being the ability to be built en-masse as cheaply and quickly as possible. At it's peak American shipyards were building 3 of them in just 2 days. A total of 2710 were built, however only 4 survive today, one of which had shots of it's engine used in Titanic (1997). I get that this has nothing to do with the subject, but when you feature a whistle off one of the damn things (10:43) you bring out the nerd in me...
Also for those viewers, 2 of them, SS Jeremiah O’Brien and SS John W Brown do regular cruises and are actually operating vessels. Important ships that are vital to maritime heritage
Having an older dad means steam whistles are the sound of his childhood in the 50s- he's not the sentimental type but even he admits that the depth and richness of the steam whistles just doesn't compare to modern horns. Its wild how something so ubiquitous even in human memory has become a niche within a niche within a niche Your whistle sounds absolutely melodic against the hills. Any locomotive with that as her whistle would be truly blessed to have such a beautiful singing voice
The joy on your face hearing your whistle is absolutely contagious. Real happy for you Hyce. I totally believe it when they said you looked like a proud father, you should be
Honestly the Liberty ship whistle was probably my favorite of the whole event, ship whistles are so big they can never sound bad Also as far as squeaks go, my guess is that it has to do with how quickly the valve is opened, where possibly the bell of the whistle gets so inundated with steam at first that it either compresses the air inside and doesn't let the air evacuate, which allows less steam to saturate the bell resulting in the fluid dynamics thinking the bell is shorter than it actually is, or it does allow the bell to fully fill with steam, but that steam also isn't as established in its velocity enough to get out of its own way, and only lets part of the steam out of the bell, with the same result as the first scenario
One thing I would note is that in a closed-end chamber, the resonant standing waves have frequency ratios of 1:3:5:7 and so on. (Search on "standing waves in closed pipes" for pictures and explanation of why it's just the odd multiples.) What makes the whistle work is that the steam flow reinforces one or more of the resonant standing wave possibilities, usually the lowest one. It sounds like what's happening with the squeak is that for some reason it's exciting one of the higher frequencies (overtones) instead of the lowest one. However, the resonant waves in the whistle chamber aren't the only resonant system involved. Another one that might be important is that a sheet of gas (the steam) flowing at high speed past non-moving gas (the air next to the steam jet) is going to create vortices -- the technical term is "Kelvin-Helmholtz instability" -- and it seems plausible to me that those might be happening in a way that reinforces the overtones of the chamber resonance rather than the lowest tone. Or I could be completely wrong about those being relevant, and it's something entirely different.
Oh that Banshee whistle is just so haunting. To actually here one in real life is just so satisfying. You have done Train Gods work for us. I do hope this can make it into Century of Steam Hint Hint.
@@Hyce777 Oh boy oh boy um um um Hyce. Yeah Um... You need to get Century of Steam done for um reasons. Trains are on the brain and therefore the brain must Train.
2:19 As a person with Pennsy blood in my family and volunteering on former trackage of the PRR, the Banshee, and the Pennsy 3 chime are some of the sounds that I wish that I could have heard echoing around my area. At one point, the Pennsy’s busy mainline between Chicago and New York went through town, being pulled by Pennsy’s blue ribbon fleet with the sounds of K4s and T-1s. We even had a derailment in 1963 where a 17,000 gal. Tank car derailed/leaked high proof Whiskey. The locals found anything they could from milk bottles to washtubs and stole as much whiskey as they could until the car inspectors came and patched it!
The two whistles you went out to the boonies to hear was awesome, very few things can compare to that kind of sound and I love hearing it. (Also great reaction to the EBT whistle)
I can't help but have a feeling that I'm gonna get hit with a similar wave of emotion you did with hearing your whistle echo through the hills when I hear the John Deere G that I'm (very slowly) working on restoring fire up for the first time and hear the thunderous crack of the exhaust beats as it works. Glad you got to have that experience with your whistle, and as always, keep up the awesome work!
I told you about the whistles - They are exactly the same of an organ pipe but the air is replaced with steam. The high arched mouth can accept the high pressure of the steam. In theater organs there are train whistle effect. It uses 3 or 4 or 5 organ pipes to imitate the pitches of any train whistle you want.As for the Chirp - We call it CHIFF. It is a sound some pipes make when they are specially prepared to do it. It is a defective sound and modern day organ builders generally nick the windway to eliminate the effect. It prevent the stop from being used for legato phrasing. The guy blasting the whistle does not allow time for you to hear a really nice echo but that is how children behave. What is so funny about East Broadtop 11. Any one can build a whistle. By the way - the people who built engine whistle used a physical principal that stopped or closed chambers create a pitch an octave lower than an open pipe. AND, the harmonic series created by stopped pipes is ODD, that is 1-3-5-7-9 harmonics and not the 1-2-3-4-5 series that open pipes produce. SO - the whistle is 1/2 as long as it would be if done with open chambers. AND, as I previously mentioned, the arched mouth is able to accept the high pressure of the engine boiler. OR the mouth is way higher - the CUT-UP is a lot higher than organ would normally use for standard organ pipe - thus the steam whistles have a more flutey tone, rather than the crisp sound of a standard Diapason. BY the way, using your high speed photos, several, almost all, those whistles have a very irregular wind sheet eminating from the windway. Maybe I should say steam stream eminating from the steam way - that is the thin opening between the languid and the base of the whistle. There is much more I can tell you but I don't want to write another book just now. HOWEVER, you can feel free to reply and we can have an interesting discourse. OR - you can write to organbuilder@organbuilder.co.kr and I will be happy to reply. To really see the PUFF of steam from a whistle mouth, you need a camera running at 1000 FPS or more. That will really blow your mind. Sorry, blow your whistle. This will let you see the steam stream wagging back and forth as the standing wave in the tube cycles. Even better would be a higher FPS What is so funny you are giggling all the time???
As another professional organ builder I can confirm that organbuilder272 is exactly right. Happy to talk more about this subject if you want and get into even more detail of the physics of what's going on. I love this stuff, great video and some beautiful whistles.
So wonderful and beautiful! They used to do the whistle blow at Cass back in the day, but I never got to make it to one. During my last Cass trip I was recalling your videos and got a nice closeup video of Shay 11's whistle, and it was cool to see the steam entering the chamber and exiting out the side, but I did the opposite and didn't think to film in slo mo! Next time. Knowing the history behind the Huber 6 chime and getting to hear it echo through the hills was indeed emotional. And then to be able to actually hold a piece of history in 11's whistle and seeing a 400fps Hyce reaction was priceless. Awesome that Hyce is getting to do all these cool train things and documenting and sharing it with us.
Ahh a Banshee! Personal favorite. Can't beat the effect of a steam whistle. Makes me grin and choke up. Best moment was with my dad (He's still kicking) chasing #261 north on the BNSF out of Galesburg IL in '96. My first time seeing big steam on the main. We chased it up to Savanna IL where the line runs along the mighty Mississippi. There the Illinois side has high bluffs (for Illinois). 261's whistle echoing of the bluffs and snaking along the Mississippi was incredible! The best part was I glance at my Father. Saw the faintest moisture in his eyes, and could tell that whistle took his memories and soul back to his younger days. I'm 48 now, therefore my father remembers hearing the whistles start to fade when he was younger on his old farm in Northern Illinois. One of my top 10 moments in my life so far.
@Hyce777 I always enjoy your videos! and I think your explanation is getting warmer... 1. The narrow jet of steam is aimed just inside the lip of the bell 2. When the jet of steam bunches up inside the bell, the increased pressure momentarily diverts the jet toward the outside of the bell. 3. While the jet is momentarily outside the bell, the inside pressure vents out 4. As the inside pressure drops, the jet returns to the inside of the bell 5. When the jet of steam bunches up inside the bell, the increased pressure momentarily diverts the jet toward the outside of the bell. 6. And so on. Does that sound close to what you were thinking? I think it's pretty close. Except,...I've built a number of whistles with no languid plate, and NO END CAP at all. And they toot sweetly except the open tube toots one (or three?) octaves higher. I think it's because the "pop" sound the jet makes as it crosses the lip TWICE in each cycle?!? Dang. Now I'M going to have to make a dang video to figure out what's really going on....🤔 The natural resonant frequency of the tube is definitely a factor. On air, the lower pitch of the "capped" tube will be exactly the same as the note you get by slapping the end of the open tube with a flipflop. (SEE: Blue Man Group) On steam, the note sounds... higher? back to the lab for more research... Stay tuned... (haha)
13:41 Did you notice the whistle body wiggling side to side? (When it's blowing without squeaking the movement is more subtle, but it looks more like it's expanding and contracting.) My guess would be that the common way to build that style of whistle (thin central rod, probably of standard diameter, same wall thickness for the top and side plates of the bell) and the speeds of sound in the metal and steam combine to cause two effects: Firstly, the metal deformation can dictate when the steam gets deflected into/out of the chamber instead of the pressure waves returning from the top of the chamber; and secondly the fundamental of the steam in the chamber is close enough to 1/3rd of the metal's frequency that that fundamental still gets excited. (*) 17:46 Maybe a "clean" sound just is generated when the fundamental frequency/ frequencies of the metal is/are in some sense compatible with that of the steam column. And the person who built your whisle's top part just happened to choose all the dimensions of the components correctly. You could try hitting the bell (with a wooden mallet) near that bottom edge that the steam gets split on and see if the frequency has some relation to the sound it produces at typical steam speeds. (*) Technically, the materials (metal and steam) both have a say in when the steam curtain from the Langmuir plate (or however that's spelled) gets routed into/out of the bell. It's just that one of them causes more movement of the steam curtain and the metal edge against each other (it actually looks at times like the metal and chamber pressure have roughly equal say in routing the curtain), and the frequency that drives the combined system will be closer to that material's fundamental frequency than the other material's.
During the 1976 Freedom Train tour I worked at a local radio station. I was doing transmitter maintenance at our site close to the SP tracks about 1/2 mile from the train on an early Monday AM as the train, headed by SP 4449 headed south. Since the air was really still, traffic was nothing and all the big transmitter fans were all off, i could hear the whistle echoing up the coast from halfway down track to Ventura, many miles away. It's still a vivid memory to this day. Steam whistles are so unique and so cool!
Oooh the echoing is stunning! There's something so hauntingly melancholic and beautiful about a steam whistle bouncing off the mountains, it genuinely gives me chills! They always sound so alive and unique C:
15:17 Oh, I am, am I? We'll see. 😂 Wonder how many other engines I can put the thing on before then... It's an ugly duckling, for sure- until you open the valve. Not so sure it's worth, *ahem*, taking out a life insurance policy like a certain piece of Juniata bronze... But I'd definitrly abscond with it for the right occasion. 😂 Kidding aside, this is seriously the best video youve put out thus far. Im just finishing my third re-watch (fight me.)
It was great meeting you Mark! I’m friends whit the guy who had the liberty ship whistle and the rare EBT #11 whistle. I tried my absolute hardest to get him to blow that whistle while you were there to record it. Sadly I was not successful. However if I ever get a chance I will most definitely try to send it to you. Keep up the great work! Edit: there was an issue with it which needed it to be fixed, reason for not blowing it.
5:00 so it's basically like blowing across the top of a bottle or jug. A flute, as you said before, is open ended, where a whistle, like a bottle or jug, is closed. Makes sense now why whistles that have holes in them make no noise; the chamber is not closed and allows somewhere for the pressure to pass through and escape.
It seems like the 14:04 whistle chirping may be caused by the steam puff spinning around the bell, rather than acting equally around the whole circle. If I were to guess, the chirping is from resonance across the whistle bell getting phase-shifted into one of the normal harmonics. Great stuff!!
This whole video was yet another top-tier moment of Hyce being the happiest nerd and I love it so much. The Huber 6 sounds amazing, and Jersey's reaction to the EBT whistle was pure gold. Shoutout to Hyce's buddy Mark for lending his software, he seems like a pretty cool guy :P
Dare I say that was a real HOOT? Actually seeing the science and hearing the echo off the hills was fantastic. (Notably the Banshee, Liberty Ship whistle, and the Huber Santa Grande Six.) EBT 11’s “voice”, received in slow-no, was a true pleasure.
The Huber 6 sounds excellent, a bit like a cross between that Rio Grande 5 and Santa Fe 6. Two of my favorites made another. I’ve met Barney once. Great guy
I gotta say you actually made ME cry when you were listening to your whistle at a distance. You put so much effort into making that whistle. I'm really happy for you.
Hello hyce, theres a guy named dustin he has the channel SmarterEveryday, Im pretty sure he has a slow motion camera or access to one. He might be willing to help you with your whistles👍
On the Strasburg RR they stop and blow the whistle and get an amazing echo from hills about 1-1/2 miles away. Stunning effect like the mountains of West Virginia.
Ahhh the ghost of the train they ripped the rails out under, I remember hearing that story lol. I love dropping by the museum periodicallyto look through the engines and look at what they have done with stuff. I remember the best ride I was ever on was when they couldn't get the coupler to work for a while and it was the conductor trying and it wasn't agreeing so the engineer came down and it wasn't agreeing so they had it set to not blow up and the fireman came down as well to fight this thing. It eventually decided to work
That Huber 6 echo, it makes me think about being trackside hearing a steam engine blow for a crossing before it comes by. Nothing's more magical than hearing a steam engine whistle echo through a quiet valley.
Fantastic video! By the way, the southern wasn't as famous for it, but their bootleg hooter were amazing chirp-ers! There's a video of a southern bootleg hooter on a cass shay being blown and my god it gives me chills every time
It's the ratio of the volume of the chamber to the area of the hole (or whatever you call it), that determines the tone. It's not the length, or so to say that the longer whistle with the same size hole (or whatever) has a greater internal volume, vs. the shorter comparable whistle. That is what changes the tone.
That was fabulous, Mark! Seeing the vast array of whistles was absolutely incredible. As you described for us how these work, I couldn’t help drawing some parallels with organ pipes (especially as I was admiring Nick Hovey’s five chime). Organ pipe lengths also determine pitch and all that as they are quickly pressurized with air. I absolutely enjoyed your slo-mo capture of the steam pulses into the whistles. That was too cool AND you showing this in spectral layers for us was like an ultra nerd out moment-so loved it. Your whistle, Mark, sounds amazing. It has such a full and rich tone, just beautiful! Professor, many thanks for yet another excellent Railroad 101 learning episode! Until the next time, cheers to you!
The sound of these whistles takes ne back to when I was very small and lived in Stratford Ontario. There was a locomotive repair shop in town and many times I could hear the sound of the trains coming and going. Such a haunting, and somehow comforting, sound at night.
As soon as i saw this video pop up my first thought was "I hope hyce gets to blow his 6 chime." So glad yall made that happen. Its tones are truly beautiful.
Awesome video, there really is nothing like hearing a whistle you made with your own hands actually working! I built my own boiler tube whistle out of a batch of discarded fire tubes from a Sierra Railroad steam locomotive that had been salvaged and used as fenceposts in my buddy's grandpa's backyard. I worked on that sucker for a year or so, built three different bells for it with slightly different lengths to replicate the chord of an original Sierra boiler tube whistle, the only version that worked properly was the one built with the old boiler tubes. Never understood why, the latter two were built better, I thought, even had Chris Rizzoli help me with calculating the proper tube lengths, but only the one made with tubes from the steam era sounded right. It was a passion project for a long time, very pleased to have finished it. Now just waiting to place it on Sierra No. 3 when she's back next season (maybe.....)
My late Buddy's Apprenticeship was that of a Whistle Polisher ... He built various 13:06 scale loco's 3inch 51/4" , 71/4" , 181/4" An Amazing Engineer ...
so... I don't know if this would be up your alley, but Titanic's voice is still alive. I am of course talking about her whistle. It was recovered, and in the mid 90s was actually showcased at the Union Depot in Saint Paul, MN... I was there. Granted I was 3, but I was there. Would love to see you do a react video to the mighty voice of Titanic
@@Hyce777The whistle of Normandie was recovered and it's the same model as Titanic, and it has been blown on steam, so if you want to get an idea, there are videos out there
“Locomotive science” needs to be a series for those of us who really enjoy “getting into the weeds” just as much as you do! I know that I myself would be addicted to such a series, LOL! Great video Hyce, your whistle sounds gorgeous from a distance!
not only cool but super cool! I'll always be partial to Crosby 3's and Princeton 3's but the NC&STL 576's 5 chime is also the loco and whistle of my home town. as always great video.
I visited the SS John W Brown and the NS Savannah. The Brown was giving a whistle demonstration on deck. They had a 3 note from somewhere. (And I do mean three note not three chime. It was three single note whistles piped together.) It was so big that the condensation from the steam cloud literally rained on me. The reason that ship whistles are so loud is that they’re required to be audible at distances measured in miles. The reason that they’re pitched so low is actually to allow them to be that loud without hurting the people on the ship.
Might have been a Smith Hyson 3 Bell, those were pretty common on steam ships of the era, including almost all of the famous ocean liners (Titanic included) edit: Had a look on the old UA-cam search, John Browns 3 Bell is in fact a Smith Hyson, so yeah, it has Titanic's voice...
So cool you came across the Gramlings. If you get a chance stop by their digs in Ashley Indiana. I know them from my volunteer time in Owosso Mich where they brought up their first refurbished 0-4-0. Good peeps those two. Thanks for the updated whistle research.
the only time I've heard a banshee whistle was placed on the #6 at the Midwest Central in Mount Pleasant. I used to hate it as a kid but it's one of those whistles that to me has a unique sound to it that is just as haunting as that echo is in your video.
The physics answer seems very much like an answer I'd have given. Since I've been accidentally gifted the role of whistle restorer in my area, I've learned a ton, but it all is in line with my previous physics understanding of how sound is produced.
It is a pleasure, unfortunately becoming rarer, to have a "real" person up front, speaking his own narration with his easy to listen to voice. Regarding whistle sound production, those with an interest in pipe organ construction know that certain pipes produce their sound in much the same way as you described steam whistles.
On Saturday October 19th was AWESOME than in the past with the Reading 6 chime passenger whistle and I wish that you could hear it yesterday and I also saw a bald Eagle at Port Clinton Pa. I hope that the new Reading 6 chime whistle will remain on the locomotive til you get here next year.
Your Own Wistle echo do give me chills like none other in this video! :D Thats a good sign! You had absolutly the right to cry for it ahaha I 100% understand, I felt it !!! That sound was gorgious Ill put it on my home theater tomorow lmao
You know what's really interesting? Watching a train driver and train mechanic arguing about how train brakes work in the comments section of a UA-cam video. "I'm telling you, I'm a train driver and that is _not_ how air brakes work." "Well I'm a locomotive mechanic and I'm telling _you_ that is _not_ how air brakes work." What's even funnier is when a commercial driver chimes in. "I'm a truck driver and you're _both_ wrong. _This_ is how air brakes work." "That's not how they work on trains." (They were arguing about whether or not the engine has to be running to keep the brakes applied. As well as whether or not air leaking out of the system caused the parking brake to come on.)
Years ago, I attended a whistle blow at Marietta, Ohio, where the Ohio River museum brought out all their steamboat whistles to blow and digitally record them for posterity. That was fun to watch, and yes, the echo is the best part of a steam whistle.
That echoing whistle sounded like something from a ghost train. Beautiful and haunting, that echo was fantastic. Thank you for sharing that with us, Hyce.
This video is a wonderful piece of art. It even moved me (7.110km and 6 timezones away) to tears. It is and will ever be the best sound I have erver heard. Oh, the ending was hilarious. Just to let you know^^
A interesting video to react to is The building of LNER Peppercorn class A1 no 60163 tornado 4-6-2 steam locomotive completed in 2008 from original design by Arthur Peppercorn
Hyce - The Slow Mo Guys would be excellent, NOT that I have contact! Destin of "Smarter Every Day" might have both slo-mo gear but also ideas on further instrumentation to play with on the topic. Similar effects would come from a steam calliape from steam river boats and circus fame, which could be fun for you also. As well, given music, you might consider seeing what you can see with organ pipes. As far as tears for the Huber 6 - even with crappy speakers I was getting chills along the spine - so the creator is encouraged tears of pride and emotion! Another Hyce treat might be a trip to Maine to fire and drive a Lombard Log Hauler! Last - good content with choochoos, steam, and enthusiasm. Thank you
Almost had the opportunity to buy an old steam whistle at a flea market but mom said no. I asked the guy selling it at the time where it came from but he didn’t know. Said he figured it was an old factory whistle. He couldn’t be sure because it was found in a junk collection of his great uncle’s. Literally stuff the family took to the flea market just to get rid of and make a few bucks in the process.
I think the oscillation of the chirping whistle appars slower in the video because of the stroboscopic effect. As for the higher pitch, the offset chamber might allow for more air being sucked in because of bernouille's principle and pressurizing it faster. If you combine two sinewaves, you can hear a third notr that cosrresponds to the difference in frequency, so you can't get a third note that is higher than both.
im so jealous everyone here gets to do super fun things while im stuck here at home not being able to go anywhere besides around my small town also seeing jersey do a 1000-yard stare after you told him about EBT #11's whistle was just hilarious
Yep, it's just like beer bottle whistling 😉 Btw, last year I repaired the bellows of a cuckoo clock whistles. The same principle, one whistle is shorter, the second longer, making two different tones
Heard you need to add some zeros to your frame rates! Feel free to email me (address on channel page). Loved the vid. I’ve never seen footage of a train whistle up close before. - Gav
Howdy Gav! I'll be shooting you an e-mail very quickly... so excited!
YESSSSS!!!!
Omg, yesss!!!!!!! I really hope this works out! That would seriously be so cool!!!
Hyce x TheSlowMoGuys collab would be amazing
firetruck yes!
that would be fantastic
2:07 he also runs for a rare chance to run a Kriegslok
Oh, also true. Lol!
I actually think your whistle is one of the best 6-chimes out there and I do *not* have a bias. It's just that good
I couldn't agree more, I usually don't even like 6 chimes all that much, but I genuinely love his!
I was going to say the same thing . . . .
Indeed, it is so excellent!
Getting to hear the lost voice of so many steam power locomotives and in one case a steam powered ship, it is almost like they are trying to speak from the dead. It makes you wonder about some of their untold stories that they have been part of.
Fun little detail for those who don't know. The Liberty Ship was a design of cargo ship created during the Second World War, with the sole design criteria being the ability to be built en-masse as cheaply and quickly as possible. At it's peak American shipyards were building 3 of them in just 2 days. A total of 2710 were built, however only 4 survive today, one of which had shots of it's engine used in Titanic (1997).
I get that this has nothing to do with the subject, but when you feature a whistle off one of the damn things (10:43) you bring out the nerd in me...
Has everything to do with that whistle!
I thought there were only 3?
The specific vessels used for Titanic's engine shots were the SS Shieldhall and SS Jeremiah O'Brien
@@awildjared1396 3 afloat, 4 preserved. One is landlocked in Alaska as part of a fish cannery.
Also for those viewers, 2 of them, SS Jeremiah O’Brien and SS John W Brown do regular cruises and are actually operating vessels. Important ships that are vital to maritime heritage
Having an older dad means steam whistles are the sound of his childhood in the 50s- he's not the sentimental type but even he admits that the depth and richness of the steam whistles just doesn't compare to modern horns. Its wild how something so ubiquitous even in human memory has become a niche within a niche within a niche
Your whistle sounds absolutely melodic against the hills. Any locomotive with that as her whistle would be truly blessed to have such a beautiful singing voice
Huber 6 in the distance. Straight magic in the air.👌
The joy on your face hearing your whistle is absolutely contagious. Real happy for you Hyce. I totally believe it when they said you looked like a proud father, you should be
I have to say I'm biased toward an Illinois Central / Paducah steamboater whistle
I've been watching for about 6 months now and you've created a new rail fan. Thank for hours of joy.
Thank you so much! I appreciate you.
seeing jersey go "OH SHIT" was amazing
Wow, holding #11’s whistle must’ve felt like holding a solid ingot of platinum in that moment. That is just nuts.
Honestly the Liberty ship whistle was probably my favorite of the whole event, ship whistles are so big they can never sound bad
Also as far as squeaks go, my guess is that it has to do with how quickly the valve is opened, where possibly the bell of the whistle gets so inundated with steam at first that it either compresses the air inside and doesn't let the air evacuate, which allows less steam to saturate the bell resulting in the fluid dynamics thinking the bell is shorter than it actually is, or it does allow the bell to fully fill with steam, but that steam also isn't as established in its velocity enough to get out of its own way, and only lets part of the steam out of the bell, with the same result as the first scenario
I think both are very solid potential cases. Me must learn these things....
One thing I would note is that in a closed-end chamber, the resonant standing waves have frequency ratios of 1:3:5:7 and so on. (Search on "standing waves in closed pipes" for pictures and explanation of why it's just the odd multiples.)
What makes the whistle work is that the steam flow reinforces one or more of the resonant standing wave possibilities, usually the lowest one. It sounds like what's happening with the squeak is that for some reason it's exciting one of the higher frequencies (overtones) instead of the lowest one.
However, the resonant waves in the whistle chamber aren't the only resonant system involved. Another one that might be important is that a sheet of gas (the steam) flowing at high speed past non-moving gas (the air next to the steam jet) is going to create vortices -- the technical term is "Kelvin-Helmholtz instability" -- and it seems plausible to me that those might be happening in a way that reinforces the overtones of the chamber resonance rather than the lowest tone. Or I could be completely wrong about those being relevant, and it's something entirely different.
Oh that Banshee whistle is just so haunting. To actually here one in real life is just so satisfying. You have done Train Gods work for us. I do hope this can make it into Century of Steam Hint Hint.
I mean, I love the Pennsy...
@@Hyce777 Oh boy oh boy um um um Hyce. Yeah Um... You need to get Century of Steam done for um reasons. Trains are on the brain and therefore the brain must Train.
@@Hyce777 what about the frisco?
I WANT A FRISCO 1500 3 CHIME IN CENTURY OF STEAM GOD DANGIT also hi mark
@@PennsyPappasI feel this!
What's my prize for making hyce cry with my whistle blow at 16:40?
At least a few packing peanuts. :D
@@Hyce777 The edible ones? :D
Bragging rights that you broke hyce
@@stevensainerailfanproductions :)
16:26 had me wanting to give you a huge hug, dude. What a moment. She sounds beautiful.
It was indeed a fantastic event. My whistles weren’t particularly special aside from looking and sounding pretty but it was an honor meeting you man!
Looking and sounding pretty is the most important bit for me. :)
@@Hyce777 I appreciate that!
Good to see number 85 being used! Sat on a dead siding in my town (Horseheads, NY) for many years, never thought it would run again as a kid.
Oh boy, 25 minutes of hyce nerding out about steam whistles? this is gonna be *good*
2:19 As a person with Pennsy blood in my family and volunteering on former trackage of the PRR, the Banshee, and the Pennsy 3 chime are some of the sounds that I wish that I could have heard echoing around my area. At one point, the Pennsy’s busy mainline between Chicago and New York went through town, being pulled by Pennsy’s blue ribbon fleet with the sounds of K4s and T-1s. We even had a derailment in 1963 where a 17,000 gal. Tank car derailed/leaked high proof Whiskey. The locals found anything they could from milk bottles to washtubs and stole as much whiskey as they could until the car inspectors came and patched it!
Great Video! I loved hearing my echo of my blow on the banshee at 3:01!
The two whistles you went out to the boonies to hear was awesome, very few things can compare to that kind of sound and I love hearing it. (Also great reaction to the EBT whistle)
I can't help but have a feeling that I'm gonna get hit with a similar wave of emotion you did with hearing your whistle echo through the hills when I hear the John Deere G that I'm (very slowly) working on restoring fire up for the first time and hear the thunderous crack of the exhaust beats as it works. Glad you got to have that experience with your whistle, and as always, keep up the awesome work!
I told you about the whistles - They are exactly the same of an organ pipe but the air is replaced with steam. The high arched mouth can accept the high pressure of the steam. In theater organs there are train whistle effect. It uses 3 or 4 or 5 organ pipes to imitate the pitches of any train whistle you want.As for the Chirp - We call it CHIFF. It is a sound some pipes make when they are specially prepared to do it. It is a defective sound and modern day organ builders generally nick the windway to eliminate the effect. It prevent the stop from being used for legato phrasing. The guy blasting the whistle does not allow time for you to hear a really nice echo but that is how children behave. What is so funny about East Broadtop 11. Any one can build a whistle. By the way - the people who built engine whistle used a physical principal that stopped or closed chambers create a pitch an octave lower than an open pipe. AND, the harmonic series created by stopped pipes is ODD, that is 1-3-5-7-9 harmonics and not the 1-2-3-4-5 series that open pipes produce. SO - the whistle is 1/2 as long as it would be if done with open chambers. AND, as I previously mentioned, the arched mouth is able to accept the high pressure of the engine boiler. OR the mouth is way higher - the CUT-UP is a lot higher than organ would normally use for standard organ pipe - thus the steam whistles have a more flutey tone, rather than the crisp sound of a standard Diapason.
BY the way, using your high speed photos, several, almost all, those whistles have a very irregular wind sheet eminating from the windway. Maybe I should say steam stream eminating from the steam way - that is the thin opening between the languid and the base of the whistle. There is much more I can tell you but I don't want to write another book just now. HOWEVER, you can feel free to reply and we can have an interesting discourse. OR - you can write to organbuilder@organbuilder.co.kr and I will be happy to reply. To really see the PUFF of steam from a whistle mouth, you need a camera running at 1000 FPS or more. That will really blow your mind. Sorry, blow your whistle. This will let you see the steam stream wagging back and forth as the standing wave in the tube cycles. Even better would be a higher FPS
What is so funny you are giggling all the time???
My first thought when he was explaining how they worked was 'like a pipe organ'
As another professional organ builder I can confirm that organbuilder272 is exactly right. Happy to talk more about this subject if you want and get into even more detail of the physics of what's going on. I love this stuff, great video and some beautiful whistles.
So wonderful and beautiful!
They used to do the whistle blow at Cass back in the day, but I never got to make it to one. During my last Cass trip I was recalling your videos and got a nice closeup video of Shay 11's whistle, and it was cool to see the steam entering the chamber and exiting out the side, but I did the opposite and didn't think to film in slo mo! Next time.
Knowing the history behind the Huber 6 chime and getting to hear it echo through the hills was indeed emotional. And then to be able to actually hold a piece of history in 11's whistle and seeing a 400fps Hyce reaction was priceless.
Awesome that Hyce is getting to do all these cool train things and documenting and sharing it with us.
Ahh a Banshee! Personal favorite. Can't beat the effect of a steam whistle. Makes me grin and choke up. Best moment was with my dad (He's still kicking) chasing #261 north on the BNSF out of Galesburg IL in '96. My first time seeing big steam on the main. We chased it up to Savanna IL where the line runs along the mighty Mississippi. There the Illinois side has high bluffs (for Illinois). 261's whistle echoing of the bluffs and snaking along the Mississippi was incredible! The best part was I glance at my Father. Saw the faintest moisture in his eyes, and could tell that whistle took his memories and soul back to his younger days. I'm 48 now, therefore my father remembers hearing the whistles start to fade when he was younger on his old farm in Northern Illinois. One of my top 10 moments in my life so far.
@Hyce777 I always enjoy your videos! and I think your explanation is getting warmer...
1. The narrow jet of steam is aimed just inside the lip of the bell
2. When the jet of steam bunches up inside the bell, the increased pressure momentarily diverts the jet toward the outside of the bell.
3. While the jet is momentarily outside the bell, the inside pressure vents out
4. As the inside pressure drops, the jet returns to the inside of the bell
5. When the jet of steam bunches up inside the bell, the increased pressure momentarily diverts the jet toward the outside of the bell.
6. And so on.
Does that sound close to what you were thinking? I think it's pretty close.
Except,...I've built a number of whistles with no languid plate, and NO END CAP at all.
And they toot sweetly except the open tube toots one (or three?) octaves higher.
I think it's because the "pop" sound the jet makes as it crosses the lip TWICE in each cycle?!?
Dang. Now I'M going to have to make a dang video to figure out what's really going on....🤔
The natural resonant frequency of the tube is definitely a factor. On air, the lower pitch of the "capped" tube will be exactly the same as the note you get by slapping the end of the open tube with a flipflop. (SEE: Blue Man Group)
On steam, the note sounds... higher? back to the lab for more research...
Stay tuned... (haha)
13:41 Did you notice the whistle body wiggling side to side? (When it's blowing without squeaking the movement is more subtle, but it looks more like it's expanding and contracting.) My guess would be that the common way to build that style of whistle (thin central rod, probably of standard diameter, same wall thickness for the top and side plates of the bell) and the speeds of sound in the metal and steam combine to cause two effects: Firstly, the metal deformation can dictate when the steam gets deflected into/out of the chamber instead of the pressure waves returning from the top of the chamber; and secondly the fundamental of the steam in the chamber is close enough to 1/3rd of the metal's frequency that that fundamental still gets excited. (*)
17:46 Maybe a "clean" sound just is generated when the fundamental frequency/ frequencies of the metal is/are in some sense compatible with that of the steam column. And the person who built your whisle's top part just happened to choose all the dimensions of the components correctly. You could try hitting the bell (with a wooden mallet) near that bottom edge that the steam gets split on and see if the frequency has some relation to the sound it produces at typical steam speeds.
(*) Technically, the materials (metal and steam) both have a say in when the steam curtain from the Langmuir plate (or however that's spelled) gets routed into/out of the bell. It's just that one of them causes more movement of the steam curtain and the metal edge against each other (it actually looks at times like the metal and chamber pressure have roughly equal say in routing the curtain), and the frequency that drives the combined system will be closer to that material's fundamental frequency than the other material's.
During the 1976 Freedom Train tour I worked at a local radio station. I was doing transmitter maintenance at our site close to the SP tracks about 1/2 mile from the train on an early Monday AM as the train, headed by SP 4449 headed south. Since the air was really still, traffic was nothing and all the big transmitter fans were all off, i could hear the whistle echoing up the coast from halfway down track to Ventura, many miles away. It's still a vivid memory to this day. Steam whistles are so unique and so cool!
1:33 Happy to do the jingle bells for ya lol
The worst. The absolute worst!
@@Hyce777 you think you have it bad? I’ll happily trade you CRRM Polar for the foam fest that is 1225!
Oooh the echoing is stunning! There's something so hauntingly melancholic and beautiful about a steam whistle bouncing off the mountains, it genuinely gives me chills! They always sound so alive and unique C:
If you get the chance, go see (& hear) the East Broad Top RR in the Aughwick Valley of PA. Marvelous acoustics!
15:17 Oh, I am, am I? We'll see. 😂 Wonder how many other engines I can put the thing on before then...
It's an ugly duckling, for sure- until you open the valve. Not so sure it's worth, *ahem*, taking out a life insurance policy like a certain piece of Juniata bronze... But I'd definitrly abscond with it for the right occasion. 😂
Kidding aside, this is seriously the best video youve put out thus far. Im just finishing my third re-watch (fight me.)
I had too much fun putting it together. Other than dealing with the 4.5 hours of raw footage. Lmao!
It was great meeting you Mark!
I’m friends whit the guy who had the liberty ship whistle and the rare EBT #11 whistle.
I tried my absolute hardest to get him to blow that whistle while you were there to record it.
Sadly I was not successful. However if I ever get a chance I will most definitely try to send it to you.
Keep up the great work!
Edit: there was an issue with it which needed it to be fixed, reason for not blowing it.
5:00 so it's basically like blowing across the top of a bottle or jug. A flute, as you said before, is open ended, where a whistle, like a bottle or jug, is closed. Makes sense now why whistles that have holes in them make no noise; the chamber is not closed and allows somewhere for the pressure to pass through and escape.
That banshee whistle almost sounds like someone yelling.
It seems like the 14:04 whistle chirping may be caused by the steam puff spinning around the bell, rather than acting equally around the whole circle. If I were to guess, the chirping is from resonance across the whistle bell getting phase-shifted into one of the normal harmonics. Great stuff!!
This whole video was yet another top-tier moment of Hyce being the happiest nerd and I love it so much. The Huber 6 sounds amazing, and Jersey's reaction to the EBT whistle was pure gold. Shoutout to Hyce's buddy Mark for lending his software, he seems like a pretty cool guy :P
Dare I say that was a real HOOT? Actually seeing the science and hearing the echo off the hills was fantastic. (Notably the Banshee, Liberty Ship whistle, and the Huber Santa Grande Six.)
EBT 11’s “voice”, received in slow-no, was a true pleasure.
Hyce and slow mo guys colab would be awesome
The Huber 6 sounds excellent, a bit like a cross between that Rio Grande 5 and Santa Fe 6. Two of my favorites made another.
I’ve met Barney once. Great guy
I gotta say you actually made ME cry when you were listening to your whistle at a distance. You put so much effort into making that whistle. I'm really happy for you.
Hello hyce, theres a guy named dustin he has the channel SmarterEveryday, Im pretty sure he has a slow motion camera or access to one. He might be willing to help you with your whistles👍
I'm hoping so! Destin is great.
Theres also the possibility of re-creating a whistle out of acrylic or something clear to see the inner mechanics of it!
@@andrewholding483yeah he does a lot of stuff like that that would be so up his alley
The sounds are just INCREDIBLE!!! I’m SO GLAD i could learn more about them from this, thank you for this INCREDIBLE video!
Wait. Does that mean Mark from Studio 346 has to recode his whole Hyacinth program?
He's going to have a lot of extra work to do, yeah... :D
Hyasynth (pat pending)*
@@jerrysgardentractorsengine2243MYSTERY CITRUS 🍋🍋🍋🍋🍋
On the Strasburg RR they stop and blow the whistle and get an amazing echo from hills about 1-1/2 miles away. Stunning effect like the mountains of West Virginia.
Ahhh the ghost of the train they ripped the rails out under, I remember hearing that story lol. I love dropping by the museum periodicallyto look through the engines and look at what they have done with stuff. I remember the best ride I was ever on was when they couldn't get the coupler to work for a while and it was the conductor trying and it wasn't agreeing so the engineer came down and it wasn't agreeing so they had it set to not blow up and the fireman came down as well to fight this thing. It eventually decided to work
That Huber 6 echo, it makes me think about being trackside hearing a steam engine blow for a crossing before it comes by. Nothing's more magical than hearing a steam engine whistle echo through a quiet valley.
That liberty whistle is just good for one's soul.
0:20 78 different woo woo sounds to make us grin bigger haha
Fantastic video! By the way, the southern wasn't as famous for it, but their bootleg hooter were amazing chirp-ers! There's a video of a southern bootleg hooter on a cass shay being blown and my god it gives me chills every time
It's the ratio of the volume of the chamber to the area of the hole (or whatever you call it), that determines the tone. It's not the length, or so to say that the longer whistle with the same size hole (or whatever) has a greater internal volume, vs. the shorter comparable whistle. That is what changes the tone.
Honestly one of the coolest events of my life. So glad I got to go and meet you!
That was fabulous, Mark! Seeing the vast array of whistles was absolutely incredible. As you described for us how these work, I couldn’t help drawing some parallels with organ pipes (especially as I was admiring Nick Hovey’s five chime). Organ pipe lengths also determine pitch and all that as they are quickly pressurized with air. I absolutely enjoyed your slo-mo capture of the steam pulses into the whistles. That was too cool AND you showing this in spectral layers for us was like an ultra nerd out moment-so loved it. Your whistle, Mark, sounds amazing. It has such a full and rich tone, just beautiful! Professor, many thanks for yet another excellent Railroad 101 learning episode! Until the next time, cheers to you!
16:30 what a amazing sound it sounds like what you’d think at whistle sounds like
Wow! Those whistles echoing through the hills is such a beautiful feeling! Love it, and thank you!
The sound of these whistles takes ne back to when I was very small and lived in Stratford Ontario.
There was a locomotive repair shop in town and many times I could hear the sound of the trains coming and going.
Such a haunting, and somehow comforting, sound at night.
As soon as i saw this video pop up my first thought was "I hope hyce gets to blow his 6 chime." So glad yall made that happen. Its tones are truly beautiful.
I’ve worked in the rail industry for almost 20 years and until now I have never given whistles that much thought but now I’m fascinated.
Had a great time meeting you Mark, one of the best moments in my life! Glad you had one of the best drinks ever made by the Kentucky Gods
Awesome video, there really is nothing like hearing a whistle you made with your own hands actually working! I built my own boiler tube whistle out of a batch of discarded fire tubes from a Sierra Railroad steam locomotive that had been salvaged and used as fenceposts in my buddy's grandpa's backyard. I worked on that sucker for a year or so, built three different bells for it with slightly different lengths to replicate the chord of an original Sierra boiler tube whistle, the only version that worked properly was the one built with the old boiler tubes. Never understood why, the latter two were built better, I thought, even had Chris Rizzoli help me with calculating the proper tube lengths, but only the one made with tubes from the steam era sounded right. It was a passion project for a long time, very pleased to have finished it. Now just waiting to place it on Sierra No. 3 when she's back next season (maybe.....)
My late Buddy's Apprenticeship was that of a Whistle Polisher ...
He built various 13:06 scale loco's 3inch 51/4" , 71/4" , 181/4"
An Amazing Engineer ...
so... I don't know if this would be up your alley, but Titanic's voice is still alive. I am of course talking about her whistle. It was recovered, and in the mid 90s was actually showcased at the Union Depot in Saint Paul, MN... I was there. Granted I was 3, but I was there. Would love to see you do a react video to the mighty voice of Titanic
I have watched that video. I'd love to hear it blown on steam.
@Hyce777 i doubt it'll ever call out again. it's a 1 of 1 piece. there will never be another.
@Hyce777 there is a 1:1 replica of the whistle currently mounted on a steam tractor in scotland
@@Hyce777The whistle of Normandie was recovered and it's the same model as Titanic, and it has been blown on steam, so if you want to get an idea, there are videos out there
you aint the only one that cried a bit at your whistle. it sounds gorgeous from close up and far away
“Locomotive science” needs to be a series for those of us who really enjoy “getting into the weeds” just as much as you do! I know that I myself would be addicted to such a series, LOL! Great video Hyce, your whistle sounds gorgeous from a distance!
not only cool but super cool! I'll always be partial to Crosby 3's and Princeton 3's but the NC&STL 576's 5 chime is also the loco and whistle of my home town. as always great video.
Love hearing all the different steam whistles! The one off the Liberty ship was my favorite. Love the sound of those big low tones!
10:10 this plug we slick. Gave me a pretty good laugh.
The Huber 6 sounded absolutely amazing echoing thru the hills. So glad you got to experience that.
I visited the SS John W Brown and the NS Savannah. The Brown was giving a whistle demonstration on deck. They had a 3 note from somewhere. (And I do mean three note not three chime. It was three single note whistles piped together.) It was so big that the condensation from the steam cloud literally rained on me.
The reason that ship whistles are so loud is that they’re required to be audible at distances measured in miles. The reason that they’re pitched so low is actually to allow them to be that loud without hurting the people on the ship.
Makes a ton of sense.
Might have been a Smith Hyson 3 Bell, those were pretty common on steam ships of the era, including almost all of the famous ocean liners (Titanic included)
edit: Had a look on the old UA-cam search, John Browns 3 Bell is in fact a Smith Hyson, so yeah, it has Titanic's voice...
The Savannah I believe has an electric horn; I got to honk it once. Would be cool if it had a whistle, it is a steam ship after all.
Weird to think I could have seen this 9:03
Probably at robins nest they have everything.
But yeah Grand junction mentioned!
I love it 9:58
So cool you came across the Gramlings. If you get a chance stop by their digs in Ashley Indiana. I know them from my volunteer time in Owosso Mich where they brought up their first refurbished 0-4-0. Good peeps those two. Thanks for the updated whistle research.
the only time I've heard a banshee whistle was placed on the #6 at the Midwest Central in Mount Pleasant. I used to hate it as a kid but it's one of those whistles that to me has a unique sound to it that is just as haunting as that echo is in your video.
"I'm such a sap I'm literally crying over that""
I cried too knowing that if you're ever away this whistle will be all that remains. It's beautiful
16:41 the huber sounds so commanding, id love to hear that in a game lol
The physics answer seems very much like an answer I'd have given. Since I've been accidentally gifted the role of whistle restorer in my area, I've learned a ton, but it all is in line with my previous physics understanding of how sound is produced.
It is a pleasure, unfortunately becoming rarer, to have a "real" person up front, speaking his own narration with his easy to listen to voice. Regarding whistle sound production, those with an interest in pipe organ construction know that certain pipes produce their sound in much the same way as you described steam whistles.
Wow Hyce!! That self constructed whistle, was just beautiful sounding!! In all just some great sounds!!
Happy tears for the Huber 6! It really does sound awesome echoing in the mountains
0:26 Boeings going to have a field day with all the whistle blowing.
On Saturday October 19th was AWESOME than in the past with the Reading 6 chime passenger whistle and I wish that you could hear it yesterday and I also saw a bald Eagle at Port Clinton Pa. I hope that the new Reading 6 chime whistle will remain on the locomotive til you get here next year.
My three favorite steam whistles are - in no particular order - UP 4014, Santa Fe 3751, and the Huber 6.
Your Own Wistle echo do give me chills like none other in this video! :D Thats a good sign!
You had absolutly the right to cry for it ahaha
I 100% understand, I felt it !!! That sound was gorgious
Ill put it on my home theater tomorow lmao
You know what's really interesting? Watching a train driver and train mechanic arguing about how train brakes work in the comments section of a UA-cam video.
"I'm telling you, I'm a train driver and that is _not_ how air brakes work."
"Well I'm a locomotive mechanic and I'm telling _you_ that is _not_ how air brakes work."
What's even funnier is when a commercial driver chimes in.
"I'm a truck driver and you're _both_ wrong. _This_ is how air brakes work."
"That's not how they work on trains."
(They were arguing about whether or not the engine has to be running to keep the brakes applied. As well as whether or not air leaking out of the system caused the parking brake to come on.)
That homemade whistle sounds incredible echoing through the hills. Really can't wait to get my hands on that in COS
To be truthful its really wholesome to see mark cry.
Mark you must have a extra set of eyes to see this comment
Years ago, I attended a whistle blow at Marietta, Ohio, where the Ohio River museum brought out all their steamboat whistles to blow and digitally record them for posterity. That was fun to watch, and yes, the echo is the best part of a steam whistle.
That echoing whistle sounded like something from a ghost train. Beautiful and haunting, that echo was fantastic. Thank you for sharing that with us, Hyce.
This video is a wonderful piece of art. It even moved me (7.110km and 6 timezones away) to tears. It is and will ever be the best sound I have erver heard. Oh, the ending was hilarious. Just to let you know^^
A interesting video to react to is The building of LNER Peppercorn class A1 no 60163 tornado 4-6-2 steam locomotive completed in 2008 from original design by Arthur Peppercorn
Well done on your whistle Hyce it sounds amazing
Hyce - The Slow Mo Guys would be excellent, NOT that I have contact! Destin of "Smarter Every Day" might have both slo-mo gear but also ideas on further instrumentation to play with on the topic. Similar effects would come from a steam calliape from steam river boats and circus fame, which could be fun for you also. As well, given music, you might consider seeing what you can see with organ pipes.
As far as tears for the Huber 6 - even with crappy speakers I was getting chills along the spine - so the creator is encouraged tears of pride and emotion!
Another Hyce treat might be a trip to Maine to fire and drive a Lombard Log Hauler!
Last - good content with choochoos, steam, and enthusiasm. Thank you
I'm a patreon supporter of Destin and sent him a message - you never know :)
That was one of the coolest days i've had. Everyone there was awesome.
We hope you can come back... And join us!
@nickhovey261 definitely gonna try to get down there and volunteer
Man it was great having you out. Maybe next time we'll get to talk guitar a little more next time
Almost had the opportunity to buy an old steam whistle at a flea market but mom said no. I asked the guy selling it at the time where it came from but he didn’t know. Said he figured it was an old factory whistle. He couldn’t be sure because it was found in a junk collection of his great uncle’s. Literally stuff the family took to the flea market just to get rid of and make a few bucks in the process.
I think the oscillation of the chirping whistle appars slower in the video because of the stroboscopic effect.
As for the higher pitch, the offset chamber might allow for more air being sucked in because of bernouille's principle and pressurizing it faster.
If you combine two sinewaves, you can hear a third notr that cosrresponds to the difference in frequency, so you can't get a third note that is higher than both.
im so jealous everyone here gets to do super fun things while im stuck here at home not being able to go anywhere besides around my small town
also seeing jersey do a 1000-yard stare after you told him about EBT #11's whistle was just hilarious
"Aye, Sir". From an old Devil Dog, that's a whistle sound I can relate with!
USMC 1999-2007
13:41 - Looks like the bell is loose on the stem, it's wiggling side to side.
That Huber 6-Chime though.... mmmmm soooo good!
I agree steam whistles are beautiful. Put that with chuffing and what could be better?🚂☮️❤😃
Enjoyed this video very much!! Thanks so much for sharing!!
Yep, it's just like beer bottle whistling 😉
Btw, last year I repaired the bellows of a cuckoo clock whistles. The same principle, one whistle is shorter, the second longer, making two different tones