Japanese Karate Sensei Reacts To ITF Taekwondo Sparring!
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
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This time, since we have covered WTF sparring last time, we have watched the ITF Taekwodo sparring! As expected from taekwondo, their kicks were amazing. However, it was surprising to see punch combinations similar to our Shotokan karate. (I understand taekwondo comes from shotokan, but didn't expect it to be THIS similar).
If I were to try out Taekwondo, I think ITF would suit me better.
【Chapters】
00:00 Introduction
00:06 ITF Sparring Start!
07:10 Match Analysis
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Original Video:
• Sparring Senior Male ...
Produced by: ITF Taekwon-Do (taekwondoitf.org)
Camera operators: Olli Leino, Tuomo Toukomies
Edited by: Olli Leino
Graphics by: Olli Leino
Music by: Olli Leino, Kevin MacLeod
Technical assistant: Tuomo Toukomies
Preproduction assistant: Juho Horttanainen - Спорт
Taekwondo vs Karate...Which do you like BETTER?
Tae kwon do is a child of Japanese Karate
@@nadeemuddin9070 Karate is a child of Crane Fist Kung Fu
@@josephhui1986 kung fu and all the other martial arts are child of Kalaripayattu
I do taekwondo itf, but i ever think that isnt good to compare diferent martial arts, there are simple diferente. in any case part of the taekwondo is karate, becouse it was made mixing taekyon (from korea) and karate (from japan), even the generel choi (creator of taekwondo) was a black belt in karate. The only think i see a big diference is that to create taekwondo the general choi uses
physical equations and laws from newton to meke the punches and kiks stonger or do more damage. regards frome uruguay, south america
Karate.
Answering your question
Yes in ITF taekwondo we can punch the head and then go for the stomach area, ITF Taekwondo is kinda similar to kickboxing meaning we do continuos sparring, ITF taekwondo is actually very similar "WAKO light kickboxing"
I agree, but much more technical than WAKO Kickboxing
Do y'all do the 'sine wave' thing? What do you think of that?
@@fredhugard7444 Yup, used for power on the downward wave...not that it is used in sparring as sparring has to be light. If you stun /open your opponent then load up with a heavy,penetrating kick, you could be warned for 'excessive contact'...even though you are both told 'you must protect yourself at all times''.
@@Ricardo-mr3bg more technical? Maybe in the kicks, the punches and blocks need much more improvement on the itf.
@@Ricardo-mr3bg
It's not more technical, the punchin technique in ITF sucks lol
One of the reasons we lift up our leg first and then kick is because it covers more distance while your leg is in the way. Basically, your leg is in between you and your opponent while your shifting towards them. Like, if you lift your leg first and they try to counter, you can easily sidekick them out of their rotation. It also helps with what is called 'flamingo kicking', where you keep your leg up and shoot a bunch of sidekicks, hook kicks, and roundhouse kicks.
Wow I see. Maybe I'll try to mimic that in my next karate practice
Agreed. and it makes your body and head away from hitting distance a bit more.
Yea, so in sparring, we lift our leg up to basically cover distance, and to easily defend, and to try and trick the opponent.
As luke said, it helps to control and gain the centerline, so you can defend or put pressure/attack with side/ Hook/round kicks
The way red uses the double kick has no purpose since he's too far away from blue. He's now off balance and has to land forward which red can set up for a counter.
Hello sensei! Usually we lift our leg while advancing for two reasons, to gain space, and to minimize any possible counter attacks like closing the distance with punches, like the red fighter did. The numbers below indicate not the actual points of the fight, but how many judges are currently giving the victory to that color. Hope you enjoyed ITF! Oh, and yes, we are allowed to go for punches to the head and then the body. But the referees often stop te fight when punches exchanges are not clean
Ohh wow! I thought those numbers were the scores! Thanks for letting me know~
Lifting our legs and combining with forward sliding we can close our distance quickly while changing the kicking techniques depending on the opening as well.
Not entirely correct Gabriel. The score shown is the actual points produced when the majority of the 4 corner judges agree that a points was scored. That means at least 2 or 3 judges need to see the point scored from an angle where they can verify it. It's quite difficult for everyone including the fighters to actually keep the score during the fight. Even if you see the number on the score-board, those points can also be subtracted by the number of warnings (every 3 is a minus point) or direct minus points you get during the fight so far. So the score can totally change once the round has closed.
In this fight, one of the fighters got an early score in the round, and then actually flees from the opponent around the ring to avoid getting into a situation where he can loose those points. As scoring points is so hard in ITF, it's quite common to see that the other fighter tries to "surf" his way to victory by avoiding to fight. I really hope this changes over time, as it makes the fights more boring when the lead is big (2 points or more in lead).
I think you're right that the ITF style is closer to Karate. It was created by combining Shotokan with the old Korean martial art Taekkyon. The WTF style came later, and had more changes to emphasize kicking.
Yup, that is correct!!
Nah, it’s descended from Tang Soo Do
After the japanese invasions it became forbiden to practice Korean traditional martial arts, many of the practicioners started to study different forms of Karate. ITF Taekwondo was born when North Korean military mixed the old Korean arts with that Japanese influence.
@@brunovieira4630 Plot twist: ITF TaeKwon-Do was born before Korea was split in two, so no "North Korean military".
@@ldgarius ohh
Each style is unique and has its strengths, I think the skill of the practitioner is crucial in such a comparison.
I used to practice wtf TKD and went on to do mma, thaiboxing and savate. Itf TKD in my opinion is better if you want to transition to pro kickboxing or muay thai etc...
WTF TKD is a watered-down version for safer sport oriented Olympics games. Very good for health and kids to have fun.
it isn't. That's like saying that the skill of the driver is crucial in getting to the destination, isntead of the road they take.
Ofc skills maters quite a bit, but these guys wouldn't hold up in a real Kickboxing ring
@@ReivasMC not 100% about ITF but in a way TKD probably internationally is gear more for sport and not for combat like traditional old school TKD.
Old school TKD has the fastest and strongest kicks. Which of course would dominate in kickboxing competition or if coupled with Catch wrestling would dominate mma competition.
@@ReivasMC it is, to use your own analogy a rubbish driver will crash on straight road and a good driver handle the conditions he’s given
@@hairyplotter1121 false analogy. If you have bad techniques it doesn't mater how good you are at using them, you'll get destroyed by an average fighter with good techniques.
For the question "why don't they step in and kick?" - In ITF sparring you train to kick without (hopefully) broadcasting your move. If you step in and kick, a good opponent will read your move and will close the distance and strike first while you take that split second to redistribute your weight backwards and then kick off your front leg. In ITF training you spend hours practicing front leg kicks with power and speed without moving your back leg first. Good fighters will have as much power with a front leg side kick or turning kick without a step up. It's a great offensive and defensive technique.
Oh and I studied shotokan as well as ITF taekwondo (1st Dan in both). I think I prefer the traditional aspect of shotokan, but definitely prefer the sparring aspect of ITF.
I learn ITF tkd for 14 years and WTF tkd a few years in school.
In my humble opinion, both styles have their own merit and it'd be wise to learn from both sids and make use of of each strength in becoming more complete. And not to say which style is better than the other because both are incredibly strong when used right.
Better well rounded itf more kicks in wtf imo
FINALLY, the reaction video that I have been waiting for😄
Thank you sensei😁💪
Haha thank YOU for checking it out!,
It's no surprise you see similarities in ITF and Karate. The founder of ITF taekwon-do, Choi Hong Hi, is second degree Karate black belt. He learned Karate in Japan when he was a student there. And his teacher was Gichin Funakoshi (among others).
I'm a practitioner of the "old style" as some call it (I prefer "Classical" Tae kwon-Do). One day back in the 90s I was alone practicing patterns (Katas). An older Japanese gentleman approached me after watching me from the other end of the college gymnasium. Prior to the start of my class, we had a brief conversation discussing each other's martial arts backgrounds. He told me his training was in a Wado Kai dojo, but he was familiar with Shotokan karate and that my patterns resembled those in the Shotokan system. I still practice and teach a version of Chang Hun Tae kwon-do based in ITF. That was an eye-opener for me. Today, there are many differences in our methods and approach to TKD from both ITF and WTF. Our GM Daniel (Yung Chul) Ra has evolved our system even further. Thanks for this video.
geesmith01: TKD call katas 'Patterns'?
@@waynesimpson2074 Yes, in some schools the Korean term, "tul" is used. Interesting note: at the age of 13 I began studying kyokushin karate for a short while. I don't recall the name of the only kata I learned, but I still remember it's sequence of movements. The 2nd TKD pattern in our system (which I didn't learn until 9 years later) is very much the same. To me, that was pretty cool.
Well, Taekwondo was adapted from Shotokan karate, taekyon, Subak and Gwonbeop back when Japan annexed Korea and suppressed the traditional Korean martial arts, so the kwans (systems/schools of martial arts) went underground. The Japanese forced all Male children to learn Shotokan karate in place of the traditional styles, and when the occupation ended, the remaining masters from the Kwans added Shotokan stances and techniques to their existing styles, two of which ended up splitting into the WTF (World Taekwondo Federation) and ITF (International Taekwondo Federation) styles.
ITF style is taught more according to the traditional systems taught by the 9 founding Kwans, WTF style is taught in a similar way, but with a much higher emphasis on fast mobility and striking speed, so the stances tend to be much higher centre of gravity, so you can push off either leg in any direction.
Yes!!! This was the video I was waiting for 🔥🔥
I hope you liked it!
To see the best ITF sparring you should check out Tomaz Barada, Stephan Tapilatu, Ri Chol Nam. there's more, but those are the best examples of high level ITF sparring. they are all champions from the 90's.
ITF comes from Shotokan, so there are a lot of similarities. but to answer your question, punches are allowed both to the head and the body. and also jumping punches/superman punches are allowed.
The step with the raised leg is used to close the distance and also as a shield in case the opponent wants to cut in.
if you go forward directly, the opponent can cut you off with a side kick (yoko geri), which is used a lot in ITF both for attack and defense.
going forward with the side kick is also useful because from that raised position you can throw a lot of different kicks, so you can change it to an axe kick (kakato geri), a turning kick (Mawashi) or side kick, etc.
Thank you for checking this out, you and your channel are both great sensei, hugs from Argentina, keep it up!!
Thanks so much from the other side of the world!
The reason for the "double kick" is to close distance while threatening an attack. Any one of the knee pumps can instantly become a kick which stifles a slip and counter. Think of it like a boxer or mma fighter that paws with their lead hand.
I would also recommend the
Pro TKD - Jin Suh vs James Kim, it's basically WTF taekwondo but no protective gear. I'm a little bias since I know Jin Suh, but it's still a really good example of Old WT Taekwondo with no protective gear.
Oh you know him personally?
@@KarateDojowaKu He knows me because I go to seminars that he hosts, and my master and he are best buds. I've met the best like Juan Moreno (first tkd olympian), Tony Graf, and Terrence Jennings in seminars.
There is actually Pro TKD for ITF as well. You even see the famous Raymond Daniels fight in the Pro ITF series. How a Kenpo Karate guy got into a pro ITF competition, I’m not sure , but money talks 😂. I am an ITF fighter and love Raymond Daniels, he made it to the finals and did very well.
I attended the 2000 ITF Taekwon Do Junior World Championships in Nth Korea as a Coach. I returned home to watch the Sydney Olympics WTF Taekwon Do on TV, the Junior World's blew my mind, the speed, power, contact, and ability was 2nd to none. The Olympics however I was very disappointed with. After watching the Junior ITF World's, I just cringed at the WTF, as it was 2nd rate at best. I've seen some brilliant WTF fights but I've seen some Absolutely Awesome ITF fights. It's ITF all the way.
What a great background you have!
@@KarateDojowaKu why thank you, however I no longer train due to several motorcycle injuries. It seems I tend to fall off a little to often.
Yeah same the olympic taekwondo is utter dogshit the olympics has turned taekwondo into a joke
@@pv6304 a tkd motorcyclist
Huge respect to you
I'm glad you liked ITF. It normally has a much more martial approach than WT, while WT is much more focused in sport and competition. That might be why it looks more similar to Karate. You can check other fights that look even more similar to Karate ua-cam.com/video/UaJnUHbJsyM/v-deo.html 😊
Great assessment! You’re correct that ITF is definitely more similar to Karate that WTF, which makes sense because ITF is more true to the original Taekwondo as it was developed in the 1950s and 60s, which was based on Shotokan Karate. The WTF style has evolved into something very different from that original Karate-based Taekwondo.
ITF vs WTF....Which do you like BETTER?
Itf for sure
ITF TAEKWON-DO ALL THE WAYY
ITF
OLD SCHOOL IS ALWAYS BETTER
ITF...but..I'm hella biased.
ITF
Love your taekwondo reaction videos
Thanks champ!
the kick that you kept mentioning mentioning, its called an axe kick, its a very powerful and useful kick and we usually aim it at the head but you have to be very flexible you be able to use that kick. In normal situations we use the heel to land the axe kick but in sparring we use the ball of the foot because using the heel is too dangerous to be used in sparring. Hope this helps
Axe Kick! Finally I know the name :)
Karate Dojo waKu glad I could help you with it
Its a lot like that Andy Hug kicks.
I practised Itf Tkd when I was younger and competed too. It was great fun at that time. One thing I like about Tkd at the time is that despite how much point your opponent is ahead, you can still win the match through a clean TKO.
Today, I'm older. I can't keep up with the high kicks. So I take up Karate because I believe it will be with me longer as I grow older. But I like both of them.
Thank you for sharing this. Reminds me of the good old days. I do miss fighting sometimes.
TKD was the first martial art I was ever introduced to as a child, and from then on I was hooked. I have 4 years of "quality" tkd training(when I got into my teens and started to grasp/understand the art I was being taught, taking it more seriously). I love the style. Even to this day, though my martial arts journey has lead me to boxing and Muay Thai, I still retain alot of the techniques I learned in TKD. I find myself switching between all 3 styles in a sparring session, where certain techniques just work better. Im finding some success with a philly shell boxing guard, as this boxing guard is more "bladed" and closely resembles tkd's/karate stance. I can utilize boxing and TKD kicks within this "bastardized" philly shell, I took and made work for my own body mechanics. I utilize my muay thai kicks generally as power shots, and my tkd kicks as probes. I also have to attribute TKD for allowing me to be comfortable in both orthodox and southpaw, as I know I have access to ranged speedy powerful kicks from either stance. The evolution to my current art just felt natural, as it combines both of the arts I know, into one neat brutal package. TKD kicks are my ranged and aerial toolkit, boxing is my "in the pocket" tool kit, muay thai is a combination of both kits with the bonus of clinch work, elbows, and knees. If there is one more martial art Id like to learn, itd be Kyoukoshin Karate. Simply because I know it has alot to offer me, and I feel it could be a missing piece for me to effectively blend all my current arts, more smoothly, without telegraphing which style of striking Im gonna use based on my stance.
Choi hong hi, founder of Taekwon-Do was student of Ginchin Funakoshi of Shotokan Karate also.
Please send our warm regards to Karate practitioners in Japan from Indonesia ITF (IITF).
in TKD, that "lift off" you mentioned at @3:00 is to close distance without too much exposure or telegraphing. Plus it gets the opponent to either back up or go into a defensive stance in most cases.
In itf the two hit combo of head and stomach is there however, you saw how difficult it is to actually score a clear point. All the judges have to be in agreement and when you hit to the body there is always a judge whos line of sight is obstructed. Hence all the flashy head punches and kicks.
It seems everyone enjoys your Taekwondo videos. Can you do a video of you watching old Taekwondo videos like during the 50s and 60s. Since all the Taekwondo founders were Shotokan Practitioner and you can compare the similarities. I'm sure even Karate changed from the 50s. I'm sure you will find a lot of common techniques from the 50s Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate.
Thanks! I might do that later this month!
There are shotokan influence in TKD, but TKD's roots is more than shotokan. There were multiple kwans (schools) that unified and became TKD you see today. Some schools, like Jidokwan, derived from chinese quan fa. Also, there may be other founders who may have done Taekkyon and Okinawan Karate also. Moo duk kwan founder, Hwang Ki, was known to be a practitioner of okinawan karate and chinese martial art, from my understanding.
@@alter5057 I know many Taekkyon masters will avoid taekwondo. They will tell you that there is no taekkyon in tkd. I did not know about other styles. Thank you for this information. What Okinawan Karate and Chinese kung fu styles did the tkd founders studied?
@@Samperor I am not sure exactly which. I am aware that Moo duk kwan founder, Hwang Ki, studied okinawan karate and chinese martial art. Jidokwan school was created by practicioner of quan fa. That is all I know so far. My point is, TKD is a korean martial art but it originates from more than one martial arts from elsewhere.
As for Taekkyon, I heard that its influences are in TKD, but I am not sure to what degree. TKD and Taekkyon are completely different.
Ah
pre sign wave tkd
Maybe you could watch some videos about Choi Hong Hi, as he was the founder of taekwon-do
(Also notice that most times, when we talk about ITF, whe put a hyphen before DO)
Jon Btr you're correct in ITF it's Taekwon-Do in WTF it's Taekwondo. There are some independents that refer to it as Tae Kwon Do.
Much has changed since I was a kid. I was in the Midwest Taekwondo Association here in the US about 22 years ago when I was around 12. There was 0 punches to the head, guard was high, but we also used a lot of hand work unlike what I see in a lot of your videos. We were wanted to make combos of kicks and punches to take and maintain dominance in the match by being unpredictable. And while sparing we were coached on technique the entire time we were in the ring. I still hear the instructor yelling "FLIP THAT HIP WHEN YOU KICK." To everybody.
What we called a form you would call a kata. In training those perfect technique and an almost kung fu like smoothness transitioning from one move to the next was what mattered but in sparring increased aggressiveness was what was looked for. It was training for both contests and self defense. What they wanted us to do was avoid fighting as best we could but if came down to throwing strikes, it was win fast and hard. In sparring it wasn't the modest slapping you see but hard and fast properly thrown strikes held back at the last moment. This taught us how to fire off the strikes, how to control them, but also condition us to getting hit when we moved into one.
I should of stayed in. But I brought home a first place trophy for form and a second place for sparring I got a little more confident and tried advance more and challenge myself in class but the instructor talked to me like my efforts and trophies didn't matter. I left feeling very insulted. Forgiveness is something I should of learned back then.
Thank you for taking my recommendation on watching ITF. What would be great is a comparison between your style and 1960's TKD.
You are correct they do lift their knee before they kick. The knee up allows them to switch between a sidekick front kick roundhouse kick in midair. It also allows them to have a knee Shield. And although not as powerful it can't be faster in some cases
The 'leg lift' as you call it. We call it a chamber. That chamber is the starting point for any of our sidekicks, front kicks, turning kicks and even the downward kick. The Chamber allows you to coil without your opponent knowing where your target is. It also lends itself to more snap into the kicks.
Hello sensei! I don't know if any taekwon-do itf player explained before where the similarities to karate comes from.
Founder of taekwon-do Gen. Choi Hong Hi practiced karate-do in kyoto at his 20 years old. There is a lot more history to explain but it clarify about similarities. And maybe you will find some more seing Po-En tul, one of the 1st DAN black belt form.
By the way, I'm really enjoing your channel very great job!
The front left leg is lifted for a multiple of reasons. To advanced while having side-kick loaded ready to go, kind of like a jab and to also act as a counter. It can also be used as a feint, by having that leg up you could advanced, drop it down, and then kick or punch accordingly. You can also use the raised front leg for a snap kick as well. It is also can be used to measure distance as well.
Just saw this one the pre kick you mention in this fight is part faint, part momentum builder and part guard check if your opponents guard shifts you can change your angle of attack if needed.
01:25 It's not seen in karate point fighting matches, but I do think you could also classify this as a karate technique as well. Basically it's ura mawashi geri with the front leg. The difference here is that it's stepped in so it covers a lot of distance, which sport karateka kind of don't do. I personally added a step in to some of the more longer and flashy kicks - ushiro geri and ushiro mawashi geri for example. So it's actually just a small footwork adjustement for a karateka.
I'm taekwondo but fought a lot if open tournaments. Fighting with your front leg pumping like that would allow your opponent to groin kick or drop spin sweep to back leg
About the leg when advancing, some people call it "lift and shift", it's about not getting into your opponents kicking range without having a kick set up yourself, otherwise you can easily get side kicked when trying to close the distance. Can Van Roon is an ITF champion who has a great video on this specifically, highly recommend it.
About the body positioning when punching, in ITF we have rules about excessive contact, specially for head punches, every punch must be controlled, you can't just throw them around. This is usually judged based on if the punch came back right after landing or if it stayed or went through, which would imply a lack control and the person just throwing the punch instead of a hit and back with the hand. Since power is not a factor to the punch, punching from maximum distance is usually interesting for the longer fighter because you can score points with head punches while the other can't. It's very common for taller fighters to keep their head as far away from their punches as possible because this guarantees that, when both fighters have their arms extended aiming for the head, when his punch lands, it will hold the opponents body too far for their punch to land. Short fighters do the opposite and usually try to get closer to punch. About the speed, really rarely do a lot of fast punches actually count as a lot of points so it's more important to get one or two good clear and clean punches than volume.
About the spinning kicks, having head punches makes spins a lot more punishable , but we still see some here and there.
It's possible to punch the head and then go to the stomach but that would mean getting your guard low in close distance, which can be risky.
You can move as much as you like and have the stamina to.
Point system is simple: head kicks counts for 3, body kicks are 2 and punches are always 1. The score in the bottom represents how many judges are considering that fighter the current winner, so it doesn't always change when there's a point.
ITF taekwon-do is a lot closer to Karate when it comes to sparring, but the tuls/kata have really different styles.
Leg lifted up skipping forward can attack at different angles, step kick is telegraphed and usually a thrust (side kick) or roundhouse (can be stuffed into a clinch, which is risky). Usually longer range is preferred. Skipping with front leg can be round kick, downward axe kick, weaker pushing sidekick, or reverse hook kick.
3:01 There are some benefits from doing two step kick. With the first one you usually test if you will reach with the second one, in other words it helps to control the distance better. Also there might be an issue if you close enough to do only one kick, then the other one might just jump a bit closer to you, so your leg will be blocked and most probably you will lose your balance cause you will be standing only on one leg.
Cool video!
I’d love to see you react to sanda
When I learned ITF, sparring for below blackbelts was full gear and all, but when you became a blackbelt, the chest protection came off and I think they allowed head strikes. Though they'd still call for white or red when a point was scored.
The cut kicks as shown is a great counter and defensive technique. I use this a lot before my opponents rush into me so that way momentum from their intended attack is immediately stopped. Its very fun to use😁
Closing in and then kicking can put you in punching distance from a blitz, the slide up then kick is a gap closers to pit you in range of a punch after possibly picking
I love both Tae kwon do and Karate. I’m a ITF fighter and I love sliding side kicks . If you time them on defense follow up with something on the same leg or pivot turn jumping back kick . Every fight I every been in . Only body punches and 1 point is rewarded for doing reverse punch to the body . No head punching but lol 😆 you kick to the head all day . I’m curious about karate forms . If there are some similarities to some of our ITF forms ?
3:00 it's a feint to see what your opponent does and it helpes set up your next kick because of your forward momentum, I use it alot on my itf sparring
The momentum like kick is a check to see how the opponent reacts. The extension kick is if they decide to attack while they're retracting the initial kick to lessen the possible attack. It isn't an offensive kick and it isn't meant to attempt to score.
There were strong similarities drawn from Shotokan Karate in the beginning and you will still see it occasionally as expressed by Nate in an earlier comment. A small number of young Korean boys were taken to Japan to study at university and while there studied Shotokan and eventually went back to Seoul set up some clubs but rebranded their teachings under different names. A conversation for another time.
Your first Question what you suggested is very easy to use counter side kick against
2:39. The double kick is used to closed the distance more then trying to score when your at a long rang like that. At a shorter range it's only a single kick they might try to land a score with.
Hi Guy, that was my 1st impression as well when I wtkatched itf. I thought, they're like Karate-Ka me being a Karate-ka as well. And you should look for I think the great French Karateka Christoph Pina, he was a former taek jin and he played similarly like this
I grew up with ITF and when I moved to USA I went to Traditional Tae Kwon Do to continue, and I'm glad I did. I like the rotation of the hip without sine wave, you're faster, as well, the breathing is different, the energy is different and profound, and much more.
People that used sin wave in like forms in competition never used it in sparring
I think both have something to offer, I like them both
Itf and wtf.. Both pretty different. But with similarities. I remember when I first trained with practitioners from itf. Myself being a wtf member. It was an interesting change of pace, but it was fun.
the reason for the slide rather than the step is for power it transfers weight directly forward this is also used for power breaking, the only variations without the slide is in patterns
The winner in this video is Julio Carlos, a well known practitioner. Six times World Champion, and a lot of experience.
Of course ITF shares many things with karate, the founder, Gral Choi Hong Hi did karate himself before create TKD.
As a practitioner of both martial arts, I thank you for show such nice videos.
Ossu!
I'm not a sparring expert but the slide kick is very common in ITF. The idea is several fold: 1, you're guarded as you move in, 2, you're not committed to a specific technique (ie you can slide a side kick, turning kick, hook kick, axe kick etc) 3, it makes for good deception as you close the gap.
As for spins, ITF definitely has them (though the fighters here didn't use them at all) but spinning back kicks, reverse turning kicks, reverse hook kicks, & even tornado kicks are pretty common....often as counters.
Rules? Punch & kick anywhere above the belt, in any sequence. Different points for different techniques to different areas. (jumping head kicks scoring the most)
Please review Paul Green , his taekwondo was very unique. He did WTF but resembles ITF to some extent thanks to front leg kicking, more common in ITF, and now in modern WTF.
You should check out the taekwondo tricking/demonstrations. There are some really good people at that, like InGun Yoo(Kick-Gun) or Shin MinCheol. There some kicks that you might not even think possible.
We lift our legs before that and then from there we can choose from different kicks as examples to make a front kick, round kick, side kick. But we also do them to get more power and it should be easier to stop the opponent when they come with a flying shot as an example
After watching these videos, has the way you fight changed at all or are you forever locked in your forms and katas? What about other fighting styles, Philippino styles, Russian, Israeli, or even Jujutsu, or Brazilian Jujutsu? Is it possible to expand your fighting techniques or is your karate the best?
I'd like to see you review Taekkyon competitions. I think you might find it interesting.
I want to take a crack at explaining why we sometimes slide when we kick in Taekwondo (not all the time but what you see in the video is very normal). We will still step into range and throw a kick like you might in Karate but kicks are the primary weapon in Taekwondo and so there is a lot of movement and freedom that comes with mastering your kicks. We learn to allow our kicks to move us around as much as we want or don't want. By that I mean, when we're throwing a side kick, sometimes that kick is simply to move is into range to then chamber and slam in the real kick. It's a form of feint I guess? We would do drills where we Side Kick and let that kick slide us down the floor, my Master used to attach a length of chain to your belt each time you made it the length of the studio. The idea being that you can use your techniques to close your gaps and give your opponent something to focus on all while moving into the range you want.
To answer your question regarding using the lead leg to fill the space between the players instead of stepping into the striking zone, then bringing the leg into play. If he steps in first, he might not be able to get his leg up in time and would have to react to incoming strikes. So, the attacker fills the area with a lead faint that prevents the other player from filling the space and forces him to move back or stand and trade strikes. If the defender moves away, the attacker can then close in and launch follow-up attacks. The risk is that if he presses in too deep, he might walk into a trap.
To your question at 2:40, they do it because it’s harder to intercept. If they come in within range first, then its a matter of who’s fastest to intercept the other person’s side kick. But if they already chambered and have their sword pointing towards you then it’ll be hard to you to bit them to it cos their leg is already up
Step in telegraphs the kick. As punches are allowed a simultaneous lead punch counter is quite common and lifting the leg to shift- double kick preempt this. You see this in the first blue point in the extra round...
Yes you can punch head then stomach- there is no limit
About the step versus kick:
TKD uses kicks and their range first. Front leg distance versus back leg range are used strategically, but we learn to "see" back leg movement easily. So, using front leg kicks along with a hop or slide allows to close distance without being so easily anticipated. Back foot stepping is easy to see, but TKD relies a lot on front leg speed, and how it can alter its expected range.
It's not easy to step in and then kick. Of course we do attack in this matter but not as often as using legs to kick first and punch after. In ITF when closing a distance it's always with the mind you can( and most of the time you will) be countered by sidekick or any kick. You blitz with punches to quickly shorten the distance and avoid being kicked, and sometimes follow up with the kick(s). Or you move forward kicking by sliding the foot on the floor to avoid telegraphing the intention. That is to shorten the distance. Because ITF TKD is higly skilled in kicking when sparring we have to put more thinking how to avoid being kicked when closing in and how to counter them. Stepinng in with punches first and kicking next is usually best when countering the attack. That's where you'll see it most of the time. Or blitzing.
Great videos Sir by the way. My brother used to train Shotokan Karate and I have nothing but ultimate respect for this martial art. Did you know that Gen Choi, the founder of ITF Taekwon-do, was a second Dan Shotokan Karate also?
Plus with those kicks you can also rush in with the shifting kicks because there's so many different kicking techniques in Taekwondo you could just Chase someone around they might think they know what you're going to do maybe you'll pull a fast one on them
The hop with kicks because there are so many counter kicks and punches. And they are smashing each other. The slide is a sneak attack because your eye only sees the distance close so it is hard to react. I love your channel and subscribed.
Lifting instead of stepping first before a kick is also taught to discourage telegraphing the intent to kick, though using stepping has its merits in short range/mindgames.
This is not a championships finale for sure. But I'm glad you appreciated it. Your comments are most interesting. As for some of your questions:
In WTF Taekwondo, the only hand techniques allowed are reverse punch to the torso and pushing.
In ITF Taekwon-Do, pushing is not allowed but most hands strikes are allowed to body and head indiscriminately. Both gives 1 point, like a kick to the body (a jumping hand strike to the head however is 2 points like a kick to the head or a jumping kick to the body; a jump kick to the head, that's 3 points); straight punch, hook punch, cross punch, uppercut, backfist, knife hand, reverse knife hand are all allowed.
As for the step kick motion that puzzles you; that's just the way these guys fight. It is not a ''standard'' way of doing it.They can move (or not move) as they please as long as they stay in the sparring square. Their ''bouncing motion'' also is pretty bad; way too high and predictable, knees locked too rigidly. They should only bounce with their knees, not their toes.
Regarding the point scoring; only blows that can land solidly are counted. An overextended hit or one done while unbalanced is not scored.
Hope that helps :)
Could you please see the video 'Poomsae - koryeo' of K-tigers? (Taekwondo training video)
It's a kind of training movement for basic attack and defense.
Is there similar things like this in Karate?
Hello Sensei! The reason it looks like Karate is because it is Karate. Both founders of taekwondo (wtf and itf) are Shotokan black belts and trained with Funikoshi. Some of the schools still practice Shotokan kata.
You should check out some videos of Tomaz Barada sparring, ITF legend.
That leg lift before the kick seems to be used in a similar way a jab is used in boxing. It’s to set up something bigger.
this style si good for to make a transition for full contact or kick boxing.. but it had low points too: light contact, for example, and is very restrictive about enchained punchs or hook punchs ( low kicks are forbidden too)
Oss Sensei I train in ITF and have trained in WTF (not a big fan of sport TKD)ITF it’s exactly like Karate. When I do forms (tuls) there are movements that are similar to Karate Kata strikes that are similar as well. The founder of ITF General Choi trained in Karate (Shotokan) he used everything he learned to create what it is ITF. I also have trained in Shotokan and I like to merge everything I learned to make me better.
I see many comments about WTF vs ITF, I am from the old school of TKD, we did WTF poomsee (kata) palgwe and sparring was like the ITF, a mixture of 60% foot and 40% hand. So it depends also on the school I think. We did many alternative compatitions even against Kung-Fu and Karate schools. We were highly succesful. Especially with turning and double kicks, finishing with a punch.
yes you can do multiple combos of punches and or kicks unless it is point stop then its first to get the points wins.
I like WTF personally as someone who competed in the 90s. I do have a belt in ITF style as well. I feel like ITF is more karate-esque in terms how they do their forms .
I think at 4.20, where you wonder why it's not a point: the kick seems to land (if it does) with the shin, not the foot, so it might not count, The punches don't seem to make contact.
I train in WT and Im about to reach 3rd dan/degree soon, but it would be very humbling to train with a Karate student or ITF student one day. I want to do a proper leg sweep and learn from Karate😁
Mr Yusuke, i think they dont step kick directly because if you lean in in taekwondo you'll become an easier target, so how closer u are with ur upper buddy how harder it is to block incoming kicks
From what I’ve heard, Taekwondo is a mix of karate and Taekkyon
I'm not a fan of the front foot leg raise, but it's basically an attempt to keep a barrier up to protect against a counter attack (read that as a spin kick, back kick, or turn back side kick). It's the same reason he didn't lean into his punches like you talked about. In TKD matches punches are great after you close the distance or as counters, but to lead off with them is dangerous. You'll eat a kick to the face. TKD rules long distance encounters. I could deal with most anyone 20 years ago if I could control the distance. My first time dealing with a boxer and the first time I dealt with a Tang Soo Do guy they were excellent at getting inside on counter attacks and created real problems for the unprepared once they were there. My first encounter with a BJJ guy from Brazil that was also a Shotokan Karate blackbelt was enlightening too. He was bad news in close. But, they had to get there first, and that's not always easy which is why you see so many of these guys leaning back all the time. It may sound funny, but the more the competitor works on forms to perfect technique, the more those techniques stays together under pressure in sparring in my experience. I wore my students out with forms in an effort to maintain good technique that transferred into sparring, and it worked. Power came from the ground instead of the arms, they kept their feet under them and maintained good posture both to move their feet and deliver speed and power while maintaining balance. That's why you see so many TKD guys fall down so often. They get off balance playing sport TKD trying to protect their heads and faces. Often the arms are relaxed to conserve energy during multiple rounds as well as to taunt opponents into shooting for head attacks so you can counter, but if they would use the blocks they were taught they could maintain balance better because they wouldn't have to lean back. That said, it's frustrating when you fight that guy that's so much better than you that you throw everything you can think of at them as hard and as fast as you can for ten minutes straight and they don't even bother to block but just slip slightly out of the way and watch it pass by while giving you a sly grin. Those are long days. It's a point of ego as much as anything else, but in the real world a very dangerous practice keeping your hands down. Trying to block everything gets you banged up pretty bad at times too, so you have to find your own preference and sweet spot to balance your game out.
Yes , you can punch to the head fallow by a punch to the stomach you can blend the techniques. Answering your question about leaning forward with the punches, you need the understand the concepts and rules, you see, the competitor must try to score as many points at the same time that you are trying not get score by the other competitor. Also, the techniques must be clean and sharp in order to score just because you see a lot a punches and kicks not all count, punche worth 1 point, kick to the mid section worth 2 points and kicks to the head 3 points. The other thing is that sometimes the judges in the corners can’t catch the techniques to be able to score the points due the angle that they may be setting , this is not fair for the competitors but it happens. In the end the gold is to score as much points in two minutes rounds, try to have the less warning posibles since every 3 warming they deduct 1 point, this can be: stepping out side the rings, kicking or punching to ilegal area, sweeping, holding, grabbing, pushing, and many others. Also doesn’t include -1 point that are deducted when you make fault such as: excess of power, atacking to ilegal area and others. If the center referee deduct 3 faults that means -3 point , you automatically get disqualified . So as you can see there’s a lot to cover, it not only kicking and punching.
It will be my pleasure to discuss more details it you need to.
By the way: the competitor with the blue gear his name is Julio Carlos from the USA I know him very well and he won several world TaeKwon-Do championships and also kickboxing championships.
OMG! Wow thank you so much for the details!
if you lift then kick, it acts as a feint, and also allows you to cover distance more quickly. it also makes it difficult to see where the kick is being targeted
Kendo will amaze you.
Its insanely fast But you also seem to be able to pick up many small movements which is Impressive.
Like to hear your thoughts about Kendo.
Yay finally
Think you should look at more tournament fights in the TKD style from other countries or perhaps international tournaments to get a larger overview. Hapkido and Wushu Kung Fu could be possibilities of other martial arts to look at.
all punches above the belt are legal (hooks and uppercuts can be risky) also those numbers at the bottoms are warnings not points we have judges at each corner recording the score so it's not possible to have a live score
we slide in for power it doesn't really matter if we step or slide but we do power breaking for gradings so sliding makes it easier to move the mass through the board so a lot of higher grades tend to slide as a habit
Your question at 4:54, yes body punches allowed, so any type of combinations is allowed. Body to head or head to body
ITF TKD has very many similarities with Karate as its founder Ge, Choi was a Shotokan practitioner. I practice ITF for more than 27 years now and I practiced WTF for 5 years before switching. Its night and day, and I ma happy to found myself with ITF TKD. Having said that, I trained very lightly in shotokan (maybe for 6-12 months) back in the day and the transition was smooth.
In ITF Taekwondo sport sparring players move forward with the leg up because they don't want to get countered, if you raise your leg too close to your opponent, he can easily surprise you with punches or even stop you with his kick first, if you have your leg raised its very easy to catch any counters with sidekick. It is also an advantage to have a leg on top because your opponent has fewer possibilities to kick or punch you. Therefore sidekick is often named jab of Taekwondo. You also missed that the numbers on the screen are not actual points, but the number of referees having a bigger score for one of the competitors, so it changes only if the number of points at a referee surpasses the points of the other competitor.
Something I've noticed in training and competition videos from taekwondo is how after a combo they tent to fall back. Their attacks are short, they close the distance but inmediatly go back, and that gives a chance for the other guy to go forward and start an own attack. To me it seems like a disadvantage, but I don't really know
We do that in lightcontact sparring (what you see here) because it allows you to come in with another kick(s) and counter his techniques with a kick
6:35 the reason blue moves so much is that he wants to get the win by the lead he alrdy has with 2-2-0 avoiding the target any makes him much more difficult for red to hit him.
And yes its allowed to move that much as long as he doesnt leave the 7x7(or 8x8) grid field.
And i love both taekwondo styles and i do itf but implemented some wtf techniques into my fighting style from a wtf tkd blackbelt i fighted once
1:24 What do you mean we dont have this in karate? That was jumping outside in crescent kick, pretty bad one thou. At least my karate does that, also different kind of spinning kicks like spinning back kick, tornado kick etc.. this is all part of Shotokan.. but yea there are different Shotokan schools of course.