The Cardinals Just Built The Most OUTDATED Rotation In Baseball
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- The Cardinals Just Built The Most OUTDATED Rotation In Baseball
#mlb #baseball #sports
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There’s really been posts talking about “who’s stopping this rotation? 🔥😂 someone said “anyone batting over .200 😂”
No one is saying that you clown
a better one is someone said “a light gust of wind”
I mean, it’s still prolly an improvement on what the rotation was last year😂😂
@@alarrim29574Yeah, that's the thing: Gray, Lynn, and Gibson are replacing Montgomery, Flaherty, Wainwright, Woodford, and Hudson. Monty was good, but the others sucked without even providing the stability of IP that Gray, Lynn, and Gibson are expected to give. Flaherty, Wainwright, Woodford, and Hudson averaged 4.59 IP/game this past season, while Lynn and Gibson averaged 5.78 IP/game. The four aforementioned Cardinals hurlers combined for 15 quality starts in 61 games started; Lynn and Gibson had 20 QS in 65 GS. Monty and Gray both had great seasons, and Gray finished 2nd in AL CYA voting.
Father Time 😂
This can work, since they signed ahead and have ample time to collaborate get their bearings right before the season begins.
Cards are like the 1967 leafs, who was the oldest nhl team in terms of average age AOT so this gives some similarities
Mo has been bad he stole the job from jocketty and lived off his moves and LaRussa and has gradually tore the franchise down, he's made one after another horrible decisions. Hopefully he's fired by the middle of the year when this next season pitching is what it will be.
Gray is great. Gibson is okay. Lynn is...not good. This won't be good enough to turn this team around for next year just yet.
As a Ranger fan this reminds me a lot of what we did. We added John Gray, Andrew Heaney, Jake Odorizzi, Jacob deGrom, Nathan Eovaldi, and QF Martin Perez.
Some of them worked out some of them didn’t, but as a whole it worked. It got us by and a World Series win
we repaid yall for 2011 by sucking so you could get monty lol. He was huge in that run for yall.
@@SagestoneMVPso was Adolis Garcia
Except these guys are a lot older and mid pitchers at best
I thought the signing were questionable at first, but then I dug a little deeper. I now see this group as a stop-gap to what the Cardinals have in the minor leagues as about half of their top 30 prospects are pitchers. If they really like that group in the minors, then maybe they bring up one or two this season to learn from a good group of veterans. Bring up a couple more next year for the same reason. Then, in year three, you got four young starters with some experience and a fifth and/or even a sixth coming in to learn the ropes. I think it is a risk either way, but if the Cardinals like their young talent and use this rotation to kind of help that group get big league ready, they may also be thinking they can sign them to early contracts much like Atlanta did with its top talent. I think it is a risk no matter which way they decide to go, but putting the money into their own talent would certainly be more cost effective, especially if it works out.
Tbh as a die hard cardinal fan I see this as an absolute win. We may not have picked up the best guys but we have great offense when playing well together. As long as we’re willing to spend money to try to win then I’m all for it.
As a Braves fan I really wanted Grey and you guys got a good deal for him given his age. I think he'll be great for all 3 years.
I fully expect gray to perform well. Us cardinal fans complained all last season about not having any arms so I think it would be stupid to get mad at the front office when we’re signing pitchers
What's it like to spend money to try to win? Asking as an A's fan btw.
@@2ugrover385remember having Sonny gray on the team? Good times
Bro don’t even get me started as a cardinals fan I am losing my mind over our management’s ineptitude
Sonny doesn’t rely on high velocity as much as other pitchers, so I don’t think age will have an effect on him. I think it’s a solid deal and don’t understand the hate
Lynn and Gibson are solid inning eaters that you can rely on as 4th and 5th starters. Pitchers are in high demand, so you have to pay them more than positional players.
I kno mlb needs th cardinals to be good, but it sure is sweet when they suck ! Cuz They are so smug wen they are good
The cardinal way my arSe !!
As a White Sox fan, whichever team ends up with Cease is going to be very, very happy.
I'm a life time cardinals fan living in STL we needed this we needed vetere. Pitching and we had Lynn before so we know both good and bad
Cards needed some inning eaters. Our bullpen was thrashed last year and it was mainly due to having to cover an average of 5.2 innings each game. There is not a lot that is flashy about this lineup but we might actually get deep into games now where we have a shot to take the win. On occasion anyway. But hey, I’m a fan of the team so my glasses are tinted rose on this one.
Cardinals are building a culture, not necessarily a winning team
They are building a seniors center culture.
you build a culture by cultivating young players around the leadership of a strong manager and some veterans, not by patch-working together a bunch of 30-somethings who will have sub-par seasons while eating up money. Getting Gray and focusing on the same player development they were on last year would've been enough, but now they're pulling a Pirates and are trying to "Re-build as a contender", which is obviously a sound strategy, given how well it worked out for those same Pirates.
The cards just trying to stop the bleeding from last year no one on baseball saw last year's record coming
Oh come on, for Lance Lynn all the Cardinals have to do is move their fences back 30 or 40 feet. Ok, at least he can eat some innings.
If they’re in the market for innings eaters, they might as well go after the Chad innings eaters himself Jordan Lyles
1:52 Fun fact: That's Gray striking out his now-teammate Alec Burleson, who led qualified Cardinals batters in 2023 with a 13.0% strikeout rate. The MLB average was 22.7%.
damn
Knowing the track record of Bill DeWitt and John Mozailak, this should come as no surprise to anyone.
Cards fans are delusional if they think that rotation is good 💀
"who's stopping this rotation"
Arthritis...
Questioned your facts for the first few minutes with the ages and googling them.. then hear you turn the video around lol
Love your videos dude. Thanks for the content!
Ahaha preciate u man. Thank you
The Cardinals have 5 pitchers in A, AA, AAA, and AARP
So I’m hoping we aren’t done but there is a reason why we most likely preferred veterans this year and that has to do with the yadi Contreras switch. Our old young players were way to reliant on yadi calling the games for them and even kinda threw Contreras (who never claimed be good at that) under the bus for not being as good as yadi. Personally I think if you are a professional getting paid millions and been doing this your whole life you should have a clue by yourself how to throw a game. Either way that’s why we got some vets who at least have a clue what to do on their own
this is also a consequence of the Cardinals coaching staff not being good enough. Since Duncan retired, Cardinals pitching has been mediocre at best. They have to replace that coaching gap.
It’s a major improvement from last season
I really like Gray
Lynn and Gibson are reliable but they’re placeholders for either rookies in 2025 or FA class 2024
Cards are still on the table for Yoshi but that’s a slim chance
Gibson is a decent starter and I liked him when he played for the orioles but idk if cardinals defense is gonna be able to back him up the way the o’s did
They will if they return to form. Arenado had a surprisingly down year defensively at 3B, missing out on a GG for the first time in his career. Rookie Masyn Winn will likely be the starting SS next year, and he's great. Jordan Walker is expected to improve noticeably in his 2nd season ever playing RF. The rest of the defenders just need to stay healthy and get more certainty about who's playing each position on a daily basis.
Cardinals have a good defense same defense that one 5 gold gloves the year before
Post part 2 after the Cards win the World Series 👀
Can't wait
💀😂😂
This reminds me of the JV and Max Scherzer thing that the mets tried to do last year. Age was the reason why it failed.
Marmol is thier real problem.
Bill DeWitt and John Mozeliak hiring a bunch of "yes men" actually is. Marmol went with the strategy they had. Mike Shildt fought back against that, and it cost him his job with the Cardinals. It's been a slow burn on what's turned the Cardinals from continually good to... whatever they are now, but it's frustrating to see as a fan.
Honestly, the Cards have the offensive output to make up the shortfall. Age can be an indicator of a player's future performance but it's not always the be all end all. It's also worth pointing out that the Cards developed a 35 year old into an MVP so if anyone can overcome those issues it's the Cards.
That went well last year 😂
If you’re referring to goldy as the 35-year old they “developed” into an MVP you’re just wrong. Goldy had 2 MVP runner-ups and a third place finish before ever arriving in STL; he’s a star who had a career year. They didn’t “develop” anything there
when did they develop an mvp?
@@fantasygoat9487
Don't take my use of the term "developed" so literally I just mean that the Cards coaching staff helped him to have another MVP season which he won.
@@g01denn59That's an extremely generous and stupid take. He could have gone anywhere else and been the same player.
Steven Matz as the 5?!?!?! And you think Lance Lynn is No. 2?!?!?!?! Swap those two!!!!! When Matz went BACK to being a SP after time in the 'pen he had a 2.45 ERA w/ an 0.92 WHIP after that until landing on the IL to end the season. EVERY OTHER SP had an ERA of 4.73 OR WORSE!!! Matz is the ONLY ONE that makes sense as the "2". Mikolas is firmly established as a long-running Cardinal and less transition would be the "3". Gibson the "4" and Lynn the "5"...................Insinuating Lynn as the "2" is RIDICULOUS!!!
All i keep telling myself is that it wont be as bad as last year lol
Pretty Interesting all around, how much they have thrown in their careers.
Miles Mikolas:15,086 pitches
Steven Matz: 16,012 pitches
Sonny Gray: 25,765 pitches
Kyle Gibson: 28,140 ptiches
Lance Lynn: 33, 286 litches
Maybe, they are going to revamp and rely on bullpen to share the workload?
35 is ova da hill alreaday?
for pitchers, way over. Not every player is Justin Verlander, pitchers have shelf lives, and 35 is well into the "I'm just trying to get from start to start so I don't lose my source of income" territory.
Just subscribed, idk why I wasn’t subscribed months ago. I thought I was lol 😂🤣🤦🏽♂️ My bad.
This Sonny Gray praise didn't age well after yesterday talking about health 😂
Meanwhile, Lance Lynn just gave up a HR while I typed this🤣
All i see here with these 3 is: 500 IP, 4.00 ERA & 1.22 WHIP.
Not bad...i believe theyll improve compared to 2023.
Wondering about all their pitching prospects. Is the plan to bring some of those guys up as needed with veterans to help them get established and then send the vets to the bullpen or use them as trade pieces?
Retirement home 😂
The cardinals signings would be hilarious except that they have now absolutely fucked the pitching market for every other team. Maybe that was what they were going for...
Ex TWINS are representing!!!!!!
Cardinal win the WS next year.
Bank on it.
Lance and Kyle are 36 which for baseball is the average retirement age, they made some very bad moves this offseason and I expect another season in the cellar unless all these pitchers pull a Andy Benes on us and have one last remarkable season before they ride off into the sunset, but thats highly unlikely. And for those talking about the offense makes up for the pitching the stars Arenado who been declining offensively since coming to the cardinals is projected at .268 26 homers and 88 RBI's in 2024 table scraps for the face of the team and far from his days with the Rockies (thats why I would never sign a Rockies position player) Goldschmidt also 36 is not getting any younger Conteras is at best a below average DH (can't catch) a mistake the team will be paying for, for a long time to come and the rest the team is compromised of newbs that even as a fan I barely know their names, the offense is slightly below avg. at best. I predict 4th place.
Obviously I’m not wishing for it but your looking at their ages and boy are they due for some injuries. Better have some back ups
And... this after Adam Wainwright retired? Well, let's see how this veteran rotation does and whether the Redbirds compete in the NL Central... or struggle and let their diehards down...
Cardinals always grab guys up in the twilight of their careers. They get 2-3 good years out of them. They aren't a big enough market to pull these guys in during their prime.
Just a standard cardinals offseason... what did you expect? this ownership group uses its fanbase as a checkbook. That'll change soon, we can only take a few Oakland A's style seasons before we just don't go to the games...
then the cardinals win the world series or have a cy young winner in 2024 lol
or go down like the yankees in 2023...
They just have to do better than the Pirates right? As a Pirates fan I think we could use these guys, but expecting them to buy anyone is a stretch.
I have to agree here, the Cardinals didn't help their problems, Sonny Gray is decent, and he is a great top of rotation guy, but Lance Lynn is awful, and Kyle Gibson is a 4 or 5 guy. That's not going to fix their rotation problems.
I know it sounds crazy but maybe they believe that there good enough to win there division.
St Louis out here building a rotation of former Twins pitchers, surprised they didnt go after Maeda too
they’re prob gonna trade for chris paddock soon
Ok they are older and tell🎉 why this guarantees they wont be good. You guys kill me
You literally said the same stuff over the span of almost 6 minutes.
It's not December yet; I don't think the team is done building.
With that rotation, they’ll get to the postseason.
Then they will show you why the other teams released them.
They are missing Bartolo Colon. Then their mission is complete
I like how 3 of the 5 starters played with the twins in the past half decade
three starters that exist to give them time to get younger guys. It is a re-tool year, so who cares.
Call this bad but given that stl is mid market team its not out of the realm of normal
Should rename the team the St Louis geriatrics lol
John Mozeliak is playing checkers while most front offices are trying to play chess. I genuinely think Oscar Taveras' death in 2014 has messed with the team's way of thinking for what's going on a decade. Around the time the Cards traded for Matt Holliday in 2009, they were THE example of an organization to follow. Since then, the game's passed them by. It's sad.
I do love the Gray signing, but burning 23 million dollars on Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson is laughingly awful.
Making all of ths worse, Mo was a part of the org during their heyday... how the mighty have fallen.
I don't think OT's death has anything to do with it, they are just a lame-duck organization that the hunger and force of the modern MLB has pushed to the way side. They are the Yankees without the money, a relic of a by-gone age when doing the bare minimum worked because the Brewers and Cubs sucked ass and you got 20 games off of them for existing the middle of the country. The Cardinals were a bad team in a good position, and now that they lost their footing, it has been a drag trying to get back up.
All card carrying members of AARP
You could say our rotation is a bit…old fashioned
This is not a winning ownership or management.
Cardinals making Yankees moves man. 🙃
The Cardinals have to do this as they have literally traded away the farm system. If this works for them, they are geniuses, if not, welllllll....
also, the pitchers the Cardinals do have in their system are not ready to come up yet. So they may be "buying" the time for younger pitchers to develop...we shall see. Since Duncan retired, their pitching has not been great and that has a lot to do with his steady hand in the development end not being replaced.
The cardinals senior center 💀
i’m glad they are at least trying
I think the most exciting thing about baseball is game action and game recaps and live games and talking about old games and all that. THAT is what it's all about. At least for me. The game is exhilarating- which is why the rules changes are beyond awful- like literally a form of cultural genocide. Literally.
They should also add Trevor Bauer.
I trust Mikolas to bounce back, cuz he seems to alternate between good and bad years, and Matz showed a lot of promise at the end of last year after being TERRIBLE to start the year
They will still suck next year
Some talking heads said they are not worried about the age. The season is 162 games long. Good luck having all of them having 30 starts.
Mikolas gonna walk around with his Ronald McDonald socks acting like he's the ace of this team when Gray is clearly the better pitcher
U should be gm of the A’s lol
I like to compare the St. Louis Cardinals to the Pittsburgh Penguins. Sonny gray is there a version of bringing Erik karlsson in bringing in a mid 30s guy with a little bit of a name for excitement for a team that desperately needs to rebuild
man if we could have signed Yoshinobu Yamamoto :C hopefully it can still happen :/
Sonny Gray is an awesome pickup. Lynn or Gibson are good #5s, but having both is sketchy. It’s the Mikolas/Matz slots that make this rotation look a lot worse.
Agreed. The rumor is that STL may trade away Matz and replace him with (hopefully) a solid #2 starter or better.
I still to this day CANNOT understand how someone in the front office thought getting Matz was a good idea. The dude had multiple seasons of a 7 ERA and was clearly not going to just improve and be a god pitcher. This season he was not nearly as bad but he was still a straight up hit or miss. Half of the games he goes in he just blew games straight open or he just struggled vs low teams just to get out of a single inning.
Honestly I have very little hope for the Cardinals in 2024 and wouldn't be shocked if they end up with nearly the same record as 2023.
@@wowwt Well, that's just factually inaccurate. His total ERA with the Mets was 4.35. His worst season was the shortened 2020 season with a 9.68 ERA (44 ERA+), and his second worst was 2017 with a 6.08 ERA (68 ERA+). He dealt with injuries in both of these seasons. His third-worst ERA with NYM was 2019 (4.21), and he never had an ERA+ under 90 in a season with at least 100 IP. His one season with Toronto (2021), he pitched 150.2 innings in 29 games with an ERA of 3.82 (117 ERA+). The problem with Matz has been his health, not his ability to pitch well when he's healthy. Other than Gray, he probably has the highest ceiling of anyone in the Cards' rotation. It's also a strong possibility that he'll become a reliever next year anyway.
Watch it work lmao
pitching age dont matter if the end result are good. If Lynn bounces back this could be an above avg rotation.
I think you’re pacing toward 140k before December, keep up the good work!
Cardinals are fine
Trade for Bieber!
A literal 180 take on the Cards of a video I watched a little while ago. Time will tell but I will say they have a rotation of inning eaters.
They going to suck
Sonny gray is a good add if he stays healthy, they NEED 1 more starter
Gray is still a solid option. Can’t say the same for the others
The most random & most mid rotation i ever seen 😂😂😂😂
Cooper Hjerpe, Matthew Liberatore, Tink Hence, Sem Robberse, Gordon Graceffo, and Tekoah Roby make up our farm system of pitchers. We still have a chance to sign Jordan Montgomery again. We’ve always relied heavily on pitchers who can get the most innings. People are not looking at the big picture.
Why waste the money on Lynn or Gibson though? They command more because they have proven talent beyond a basic innings-eater, so to waste the extra coin on them when they will be nothing more than fodder?
It's clearly gonna be a rebuild year
Ah yes the AARP rotation of baseball
All this to finish 3rd in the central at best 🔥
Sonny gray and lance lynn helped me win a fantasy championship this year! STUDS.
Wow. If they can help someone like you win in fantasy, that truly shows how valuable they are! Hahaha just kidding, that's awesome man congrats. You get bragging rights for a year now (assuming you had a league with your friends/family)
first daddy
Pain.
Not even a Cardinals fan but i really really wanna see this cardinals team go 100+ wins and win it all. It would be great 😂
I think you might just be a very reluctant Cardinals fan who is lying to themselves.
@@toilet_cleaner_man Born and raised in Houston and a die hard Astros fan. But maybe you’re right, there’s something about the cardinals that i love. Idk what it is. The stadium? The Jerseys? or maybe they’re just a very likable team.
As a mets fan it is a bit surprising to see them do that after our old rotation totally fell apart this year.
As a Mets fan it’s surprising to see Matz still playing
@@zachflakerton that’s true too lmao
Congratulations to the cardinals for opening a senior center for pitchers at their ballpark!
Are you serious? Do you know know how many pitchers there are in the MLB at age 40 and up? A lot. Wainwright was 42. The Cardinals NOW have a solid rotation. With their great offense and phenomenal defense, this 2024 team *WILL DEFINITELY* make the playoffs and most likely win the Central. That's much much better than what over half of the other teams could even dream of. Our bullpen last year was the number 1 issue. They blew more games from 7th inning & up....than any other team's bullpen.
I mean considering that for a few years (not last one), a 38-41 year old Adam Wainwright was the ace of the Cardinals rotation, their mindset makes a bit more sense... but it's still a terrible idea to go with all of these old timers. Gray is solid, but Gibson and Lynn? I just hope Mozeliak still tries to sign some YOUNGER pitchers in this offseason. All I can think about when I see Kyle Gibson is the Cardinals hitting 4 home runs back to back to back to back against him when he was with Philly.
Plus Arizona just hit 4 HRs in an inning versus Lance Lynn in the postseason I'm definitely skeptical.
You may say outdated but that rotation will probably carry the cardinals into the 2024 postseason and somehow make it deep in october
rotation and age will not go together
Sonny gray will get Injured but sprinkle in some devil magic and Lance Lynn will win cy young and propel the cardinals to losing in the 1st post season series