What Zain's Newest Experiment Means For Melee's Future
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2023
- I'M BACK. I talk about what it felt like to be in Ludwig's tournament, LACS 5, recently, and someone asked me what Zain's experimental counter-pick character versus Leffen's Sheik means for Melee's future meta.
streamed on july 16, 2023.
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edited by seanathan
Outro: • Okami - The Tribe Of H...
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#SmashBros #Ludwig #tophbbq - Ігри
Literally wake up babe, it's 3:30am. Toph's new video dropped.
Definitely something to wake up to 😂🔥💯
Yooooo this is random, but are you a Turnover fan??
@@JurgaBurgaFlintineswas just about to comment. Peripheral Vision is an 11/10 album
@@seanjohn2876t
@@JurgaBurgaFlintines yessirski
Mafia, skits, and offgame interactions is what made summit so fun imo, it let you peek into the personality of people involved a little more and brings a little more humanity I guess to those involved. It's what's missing from the current tournament crop and something that was really unique to the smash scene.
exactly. the general couch commentary whenever there wasnt a match being played was always super entertaining and funny, mainly because everyone there was a top player who knew everyone else on a personal level, there was a ton of great chemistry all the time. god i miss Summit so much, it was the only tournament i ever made sure i tuned into 😔
Yo! Honestly these videos are some of my absolute favorite melee content. I just love all your stories, insight, and general personality! Glad to have you back!
You also can't forget the 2018-2019 Era when everyone had a fox exclusively for Juan
Toph been chilling in his beach house at Cancún this entire time, with a strawberry smoothie in one hand and a barely functional, shipped out 16 months late, N3Z controller in the other
nah nah nah apex 2014 definitely happened lmao. it was 2011 that got skipped
That’s what I thought lmao, it was literally ppmd’s career peak and toph said it didn’t happen
Truly incredible hearing Toph call someone else bad at Mafia. Staggering even.
But he’s correct
Damn, Toph really forgot about Apex 2014
Apex 2014 was a real tournament lol
you cant even see the channel name but he used MonsterTipper's Smash Summit Shenanigans to show Ludwig's Mafia throw 😭 that guys video are easily the thing i miss the absolute most about Summit being gone. i know he hadnt uploaded shenanigans videos since Summit 7 anyway but dammit those highlights fuckin kill me and even still make my day when i watch them
I’ve been watching a lot of your old videos lately, glad you’re posting on UA-cam again!
Nice pad! Cool to see people talking about this game with passion for so long. Always amazing to watch!
I think what people in 2015 didn't see is, that people still could get this much better at melee. I mean what the best players were doing at the time seemed so much like magic to the casual viewer, that imagining that HBOX for example would just get so good a Jigglypuff, that he could dominate the scene with her solo. I think today actually duo maining, meaning having 2 characters on major winning level feels close to impossible, unless we're talking Fox/Falco. Leffen has picked up a character for 1 specific matchup and being able to beat a top player with it is already impressive enough and it took a lot of practice time to even get there. Zain is trying to exploit that by forcing him into a different matchup he barely practices making the barrier to entry even lower. I doubt Zain's solo Iceys would be better than his solo Roy and that probably won't change either. diverting practice time away from your main is probably more costly than it's ever been and getting to a level on a second character that can hang on the major level even if you find a niche to exploit is so hard. Genuinely I think Zain would need a lot longer to make Iceys viable against sheik mains, who are more familiar with the iceys matchup.
Toph bro I've been waiting so long for you to upload to your UA-cam man, almost thought you forgot about us 😭 happy to see you back on the channel 💯
One of my fav UA-cam channels man im glad to see some vids!!
It's been 40 years since the last toph video i am so happy to see another!!
7:32 It hasn't even been a month since this stream and it already aged poorly
the hax ping pong summit skit was so good, I would love more skit content
Toph's inner drama kid just wants to play mafia
Great to see you posting videos again!
It seems it could be beneficial for having a definitive point where someone is referred to as a dual main. Perhaps a certain percent of their matches, or if they do it against more than one character matchup?
Toph you're a goat
Thanks for destroying my sleep schedule
You know it's going to be a good day when toph uploads
In terms od the dual main, And this is before GOML, we saw amsa's experimental Falco vs hbox as well. As far as Zain ICs, I think this is also still experimental
my favorite part was the smooth transition to the end of the video
I don't know if anyone else has had this experience, but I remember a summer back in the late 2000's listening to wc3 dota Lumi commentary practicing my double shine shdl. Who knew that would eventually spawn dotacommentaries and morph into beyond the summit and then get absorbed by melee 15 years later. Wild ride lol
Commenting for the algorithm, love to see the return
It's fun watching people dual main too. That era is dope
Toph = comfort youtuber channel of the year
Nice, we missed the content from you! You should do your yearly rankings to date for the top players (fyi I think mango’s reputation is hurting him, he’s actually having a pretty good year and people act likes he’s not even top 10)
Peak YT Melee content has returned
oh my god youre back im so happy
There was a point where Mang0 was openly saying Fox beats Falco. He said good smash DI against Falco's shine made the matchup impossible
i’ve missed ur videos ty toph
Yeah, speaking as somebody who has competed in a different fighting game, if you're good enough to be at a top level and have all the experience + knowledge of the game, it makes it way easier to start playing a new character, so when you see top players being the ones to play multiple characters, it might feel like less work/commitment for them. Also, fully agree that swapping characters in a tournament is a skill you have to build, and I'd love to see Zain do just that, take what Leffen said and run with it by building up the character swap. I loved watching Zain's Icies already.
Return of the king..
Yesss new toph video !!!!
toph is back!
toph is back!!! wooo
finally ur back bro
jumpscared by the end screen every time
Just gotta get hotel mafia on Toph’s stream
Bro I hope you upload more on UA-cam I love the channel
Wake up 5:AM. Toph.
Counterpicking is nice to have, but it not only takes time to develop as a skill, it can also drag u down if u "overcounterpick". Sometimes a MU seems bad for your main on paper, but you really just have to learn to trust your main more. Its why Zain has seen more success than M2K. He has more faith in his main. You have to strike this balance between using pragmatic counterpicks, but also willing to tough out "inconvenient" situations with your main so you can stay focused. Its what I've learned at least going against good players in tournament.
Eh, same could've been said about Leffen going sheik vs Zain but it seems to have worked out perfectly for him.
@@djangosmissingfingers 1st thats a diff case because Fox Marth FD free win for Marths 2nd spacies and sheiks often times benefit most from secondaries at a certain point because they're fundamentally easier to counterpick than Marths 3rd Marth is sort of a solo-esc character tbh, he just kinda has everything.
Honestly ban FD, it puts this stupid polarizing twist on many MUs and forces ppl to often times consider picking up secondaries against their will. Wouldn't miss this stage if it goes not one single bit. If I wanted to play on FD, I'd just play a traditional fighting game lol
i just watched watched chris best vs net 1234 and i thought it was dope. it would probably be hard to find footage, but i think a cool video idea could be like, "what are the most iconic melee sets that don't feature a top 50 melee player?" If this has been done, someone lemme know LOL
bring back mafia! made me so sad to see it slowly become less and less popular over the last 2-3 summits and then when bts died i thought we would never see it again, there needs to be LACS6 mafia 100%
Mafia is gay AF lol
If I’m being honest; I’ve never watched Mafia and never wanted to. Is it good enough to go back and watch the old VODs? Or is it more so something you have to enjoy in the moment?
Lets go 3am upload
No fucking way dude 😮 new video
Ngl there have been some hype mafia moments good for viewers
Have we seen a meta where player B loses game 1 and chooses not to counterpick to FD even though it is clearly the best stage for player B in the matchup because player B knows player A would switch characters forcing player B to switch characters so FD is no longer a good stage for him?
I never watch the mafia content, but if yall want to play it, you should
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO ISSA TOPH YT VIDEO
Mafia got old fast. It would have been more interesting if it wasn't a constant at Summit but rather every few Summits.
Ayy missed your youtube videos
You should check out the starcraft 20th anniversary event for more coach commentary. Great event
A lot of what you are mentioning is confirmation bias or recency bias from these players too. The causality thing was more of the chicken and the egg but I don't really know the technical name for that
mic hurts my ear holes a little bit this time but good content
WE BACK?????
bro I been waiting for toph youtibe content harder than my paychecks and I am poor
>obviously amsa is solo yoshi
Amsa: Omae wa mo shindeiru
That was the most abrubt ending
Toph! 🙏🙏
I don’t necessarily enjoy mafia but I would like to watch something because we just have the ability to. I’d like to see some Mario party, maybe some Mario kart. Having everybody there and not doing something seems like a bit of a waste
wait there was an Apex 2014 lol. PP won that too. Prog and [redacted] sand the US national anthem during a mango set for some reason lol
It's a sign of the times when the game is being so heavily optimised that even purists like Amsa are picking up pocket secondaries like Falco. A lot of the talk of top players needing secondaries died during the Hbox/Leffen era of 2017/18, but with Jmook invalidating certain MUs it's becoming more necessary.
the melee scene shouldnt give a fuck about what ludwig has to say
what happened to your voice?
Bring back mafia
the thing about mafia is it gets old imo in the same way cards against humanity does, i think if you do it once a year its the perfect game, i intentionally avoid playing mafia often so i get so savour the enjoyment as long as i can. that said, lacs should definitely have mafia
Melee is the crack to the Ultimates Weed ultimate leads people to melee and become even more incel
idk about the take about the super casual summit-commentary becoming more mainstream in 2 man melee commentary. I mean, I agree it has, but I really think its for the worse. Its different when 4 top players are just shooting the shit on commentary on the couch, versus two man comms where the viewer doesn't know them, doesn't get the local scene references, and the commentators don't really respect the players on screen. I'm not saying every match needs super serious esports commentary, but I feel our current commentating has gotten so bad its honestly hard to get people into melee as they watch a tourney stream and are getting no information or even play by play, just some random story about some dude they don't know. Idk random thought but I really hope to see melee commentary get back to what it was before.
i never watched mafia, as a viewer it is pretty agonizing honestly. that's not to say that a bunch of friends who wanna play a game shouldn't play a game of course - you guys should do what you wanna do. but as a spectator i immediately tuned out after mafia comes on
Icies are hard due marth Slug has a winning record on zain
why can't people just play fox?
Personally, mafia isn't that fun for me to watch.
Mafia sounds like it could be really draining for the competitors after a whole day of tough melee sets. That said, I never really was interested in watching it so that's my bias
Not only is Mafia not necessary I'd say, as a viewer, it really just detracts from what I watch this scene for and causes me to have to block some of the smash content since so many of it's players are making side content more than smash content. (Though that probably won't matter to anyone since it is very likely from what I've heard from others that I might be the only person who curates their algorithms.)
Babe can u just hit top 10 on the rankings 😅
Hi Toph
Mang0 should start going Puff against Hbox
please make that video!!!! 1:10
Mafia is fine, but other social manipulation/deduction games are better. Give us something with a board state like Secret Hitler or the Resistance, imo.
Playing mafia is great. Watching mafia is horrible
and listening to the mafia aftermath the whole event
tbh LACS 5 felt like Summit 15 but just with a worse colour scheme lol
Please NEVER do Mafia ever again.
Me as a Zelda main.... just hit down b sheik
1
Tophs content is so underrated.
👌 *promosm*
Clickbait
Disregard
You are cringe at Mario Party
by "colorful personalities" do you mean "bizzarely large propensity to be pedophiles?"
You gotta put these out a little sooner :/
Is Toph creating in his head people who said dual maining was required for top ten? I thought everyone knew the whole point of the gods lore is that they could whip out a bottom tier and 4 stock you. It wasn't that they were better with more characters, but that their melee fundamentals were so much better and more consistent to the point only the gods had the understanding/consistency and therefore could double main, not be required to.
Look back at melee clips around that time, most people didn't even fully understand most interactions and mechanics in the game yet.