AMCA Project Gets Going, Long Road Ahead |
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Last week's approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security to develop and manufacture the Advanced Medium Combat Jet or AMCA for the Indian Air Force is more than welcome given the dire need for the force to keep up with the needs of the future.
A fifth-generation, medium weight low observable fighter jet designed and developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) that functions as a Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) arm, the AMCA project has been allocated Rs 15,000 crore as initial funding with more money to be provided as and when required. The aircraft will propel India into a select group of nations that have or are developing 5th generation fighter jets, based on futuristic technology in partnership with various private and public sector agencies.
The AMCA compares with a Rafale in its weight and will have a state of art cockpit configuration to assist in the best optimized pilot response. It will also be capable of teeming in a manned-unmanned configuration for best utilization in the visualised combat environment. AMCA will have stealth characteristics, in-built.
The AMCA will compare well with other 5 th generation aircraft but its induction into the force is unlikely to happen before 20235 at the earliest.
Brig SK Chatterji (Retd) was speaking with Editor-in-Chief Nitin A. Gokhale about the AMCA project.
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Interviewing the interviewer does not make it more interesting because you are interviewing for secondary information rather than going to the primary source (DRDO, ADA, HAL and other agencies responsible for aircraft development in India). Turkey seems to have lighted the "afterburner" on India's backside, finally. Good. Der aaye durust aaye.
Bro, those "primary sources" are often told to keep their mouths shut. These guys having interviewed them have more info than you and I. So worth listening 🙏
Great comment...
And correct assessment.
It's worthless to listen from a non technical non defence person.
He does not even know what the weight of a jet comes from.
Wishing this project all the best. Hoping kaveri engines also are able to fit in. Tired of delays and hearing about other countries planes and airforces
I was expecting a more detailed video. Maybe talk about the difference between mk 1 and mk2 ( amca ) , talk about tge DAS , EOTS , why amca mk1 is compromising stealth with the use of irst instead of eots , etc.
This is a non technical person.
What better to expect.
Doordarshan feeling aa rahi hai, very pleasing....
2059 is the timeline for AMCA so, don't waste your time guys waiting for this plane soon.
Jay Mahashakti Bharat Jay Modi ji🇮🇳✈️🫡🦾
will there be modification of amca once it enters the service for it to be a deck based fighter for the navy or will the navy solely rely on rafaels and tedbfs for its combat air arm in the future?
While the cost aspect is certainly concerning, the following should be noted:
As of today, the IAF has 30 active fighter squadrons. These comprise 13 Su-30MKI squadrons, 2 Tejas squadrons, 2 Rafale squadrons, 3 Mirage 2000 squadrons, 2 MiG-29 squadrons, 6 Jaguar squadrons, and 2 MiG-21 squadrons. Of these, the 2 MiG-21 squadrons will be retire / changeover in 2025, followed by the 6 Jaguar squadrons between 2028 and 2035, and the 5 Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 squadrons between 2036 and 2040.
If we go by HAL's promises (which is an insanely optimistic thing to do, but I'll cover that in a bit), Tejas Mk 1A production is to be scaled up to 16 by 2025-26, and up to 24 by 2028-29. Even if those numbers are achieved, and we assume HAL will deliver 8 aircraft in 2024-25 (that is, by the end of March next year), the 180 Tejas Mk 1As (83+97) will only be delivered in 2033-34. Note that this figure assumes that the stated production numbers are achieved and capacity for other projects such as the Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA are completely independent. This won't be the case, so we shall take this into account.
If Tejas Mk 2 production starts in 2031-32, and HAL can deliver 8 jets a year till 2033-34 and 16 in 2034-35 (both overly optimistic), by 2034-35, we would have 40 aircraft.
Therefore, combining Points 2 and 3, we see that by 2034-35 (that is, the year when the last Jaguar squadron would be planned for retirement), we would have 180 Tejas Mk 1As and 40 Tejas Mk 2s. That makes for 10-11 active squadrons. Compared to today, we have retired 8 squadrons. Therefore, the IAF would now be at 32-33 squadrons, far short of the 42 squadron target.
Let's further assume that the conclusion of Tejas Mk 1A production allows for one line (8 aircraft) to be switched over to the Tejas Mk 2, with the remaining two lines going to AMCA. This would allow for 24 Tejas Mk 2 aircraft to be built from 2036-37. Let's also assume AMCA production starts at 8 aircraft in 2034-35, and scales up to 16 from 2036-37.
By 2040, when the last of the Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s have left service, we now have a further (as compared to 2034-35) 122 Tejas Mk 2 and 80 AMCA. That makes for 10 active squadrons. This puts the IAF at 37-38 squadrons by 2040, which is still short of the 42 squadron target.
Assuming Tejas Mk 2 production caps at 200 aircraft, production would cease in 2042. By that point, we would have a further (as compared to 2040) 32-40 AMCA. That puts the IAF at 41-42 squadrons, which is barely scratching the target.
By the early 2040s, the Su-30MKI would be nearing the end of its lifespan, and retirements would start around 2043 (to allow for 1 squadron to be retired each year, for a final retirement in 2055). Thus, the 42 squadron target would only sustainably be achieved in the late 2040s.
Based on the above points, it is clear that indigenous production (even at its most optimistic) may well not be enough. That is to say nothing about the calls to increase that target to 51-60 squadrons to account for the increased strength of the Air Forces of China and Bhikaristan.
Now, coming to practical considerations (as I referred to above):
A. HAL's claims are not sustainable for the simple reason that putting those capacities together would reach 32 aircraft a year by the start of the 2030s, and would further increase to 56 aircraft a year by 2036 (adding TEDBF production).
B. Engine bottleneck concerns, be it for F404 deliveries or for local manufacturing of the F414 or the 110 kN engine, have not been considered here. To manufacture 54 aircraft a year by the late 2030s or early 2040s, we would need 120+ engines (80 for the 40 twin-engined aircraft + 24 for the 24 single-engined aircraft + spares for the IAF). That is a very massive capacity requirement.
A more realistic estimate would be to assume a (still optimistic) 75% production efficiency for HAL. That would mean Tejas Mk 1A production would cease in 2036-37, Tejas Mk 2 production would cease in 2046-47, and AMCA would reach 168 aircraft by 2047, with TEDBF production standing at 108 by that point. That puts us at 42 squadrons in total by 2047, taking into consideration Su-30MKI retirement.
Now, coming to the cost aspects: The Rafale is a very expensive fighter, and we know for a fact that local production does tend to cost more. However, as evident by the numbers presented above, we really do not have any alternative to MRFA. This is a bullet we must bite, like it or not. If we take an aircraft other than the Rafale for MRFA (say, the F-21) for lower costs, we face the problem that we are facing with the Mirage 2000 today: Difficulty in sourcing spares.
Like it or not, this is a bullet we must bite for the costs, unless we are willing to take the aforementioned logistical headache 20 years down the line.
Safran is good option. It will give new ip with tot. Rolls royce is giving new ip to india so that will be a good option too.
Infra-red & RCS stealth are for reducing thermal and radar signatures respectively.
Low Detectable Aircraft in IAF parlance indicate that it won't have weapon grade lock radar image for X & Ku band radar homing missiles..
Nitin next time do talk to AF/ADA or any other program designer about
data link speed how fast it would be from current platform.. US next gen DL in 4 times faster than Link 16..
the engines for mk2 whether they be adaptable cycle like in case of foreign vendors..
Use of Fly-by-Optics which would possibly increase the computational transfer speed & reduce weight..
Next gen digital MAWS & countermeasures
In this pic of AMCA it look like SU-75
ADA is hiring retired Govt officials as consultant for Tejas project. Check out their recent job advertisement. and You are talking about AMCA. 1st question : What would the retired officials do?
2nd question : Why youngsters from good institutes are not hired?
3rd question : Why GATE qualified students are not hired?
4th question : Is there a dearth of talent in India that we have to rely on retired Govt officials to develop cutting edge technology.
5th question: Is there a chance of import lobbyist deciding the recruitment process of such Agencies which are involved in developing cutting edge technologies?
Sir amca 1 come in 2028 so In that we see circular heat exhust nozzal we see
But in amca 2 which came after 2035 did we expected to see flat exhaust nozzal ( same like f22 Raptor ) in it ??? .
If u have any update about it please shared with us we wants know more and more about amca project and its future upcoming technology.
I suspect it will come out by 2040 by which time the 6 th generation will be the norm.
🎉🎉
👌👌👍🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Presentation is very poor! Hope next time you can present differently! Just trying to provide a constructive feedback ❤
agree !
Please sir comparison between Tejas mk2 vs rafel.
While indians are telling the AmCa is a long way , turkey and south korea had flown their prototypes😂
Even we can fly a mockup jet but what matters is what goes inside we have more experience than either of those . Rest assured amca mk2 once built will rival americans
@@raghunandanbs2005 good story line 😂
Which nation are you a citizen of, like you are commenting on Indians, our achievements, wanted to know which country are you from😉
@@Red.bulldozer3 soon we will surprise the world with our developments
Just like space missions
@@throttlelink8414i am afraid pakistan and china will surprise the indians more than indians do?😂
Moduler design we can see cooling system on fighters jet it's not harmful for the rcs..we can not see this other ,5th generation fighter jet of the foreign
Isse jyada to hum logo ko pata he
What the hell happened to Kaveri engine. Why doesn't anyone talk about it?
It's going well . As of now the goals are to develop a 50 kn non afterburner engine for ghatak , and an afterburner section that can sustain 85 kn constantly for a long duration . Fabrication works are already going on and I believe the ghatak engines are ready for testing too. Mind you ge 404 produces lesser than 85 kn kn Indian climate , so 85 kn for a slightly heavier engine is pretty respectable and it could be used in Tejas if further upgraded
@@raghunandanbs2005, Bro, Thanks for providing the information. I'm really hoping that we get our own indigenous engine designed, developed in Bharat. Also all the raw materials, parts are indigenous. Kaveri for the win.
Another question: In case of tejas, Kaveri engine wasn't able to produce enough thrust so it was delinked from tejas project. Why don't we aim for higher thrust e.g. 110 kn and then even if it falls short, we can still use it. haha
@@ManojSingh-bg9ueI think we have hit the ceiling in terms of metallurgy with no breakthrough so we can't really build materials that can sustain such high temp without damaging it . All these foreign jet engine collaboration isn't working well since jv is between equally competent players and we offer nothing in return to their help, money won't be of any use too since they can get more by selling their own jet engines than selling core technology to us. It could work if we decide to buy their jets ( in Mrfa ) in return for collaboration in metallurgy.
Roll out should be in 2026 hopefully need to fast track this
😂😂😂Tejas mk2 roll-out isn't done now you are expecting amca roll out 😂😂😂
If you have heard to bhadoria sir then you will know
Ye bunda kitni mehnat kurta kubse chah India ek achi aadtka superpower bune
If amca not full stealth fighter jets so why india making its.
Main Tejas ke crash hone se bahut dukhi hun.
Court of enquiryi se pata lagega ki, Shayad pilot Ne apna control kho diya tha.
" Tamam channel per ISI baat ki bharmar hai ki humne jet plane banaa liya hai.!
Yah bhi ki ham fala fala country ke sath technology share karke engine banaenge. !
" Lekin Swadeshi engine Kaveri ke bare mein koi khabar nahin Hai. Kaveri ne 55 N thrust power generate kar Li thi, kahan Kami rah gai thi,?
Ab To testing facility bhi hamare yahan ban chuki hai.
DRDO ka reform bhi ho chuka hai ??
Brigadier Sahab aur Nitin ji.. udasi Bhari Jay Hind swikar Karen.
So much negativity in comments best of luck to AMCA own bicycle is better than a borrowed car
Only a passing reference is made of India pulling out of FAGFA. Nobody talks about the amount of money the Russians fleeced from India. Same is the case with the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya. At last India has realised the importance of developing it's own defence industry.
I want to know more about mk 2
Delayed delayed
Funds were released just a few months ago inspite of sanction a year and half ago. It was due to delay in engine deal with Americans since there was a requirement for tot of engines in the deal . Now everything is settled and the first few prototypes are under fabrication and will be rolled out by 2026 mid - 2027 Jan .first flight will be conducted 6 months later .
@@raghunandanbs2005 2026 🥲🥲🥲
Check out the recent recruitment advertisement of ADA. You will get to know everything. They are hiring retired govt officials to fill up the posts of Air frame designers and many other things. Now you can understand what will happen to it. I am raising this issue on every forum so that some changes can be brought to ADA.
@@kalrukalrureturns5834 Officials retired from where?
Some wrong details in this report..so LCA Tejas was not considered good enough by the IAF as a fighter because it's engine was imported? What nonsense?! That would mean every single IAF fighter isn't good enough since all are flying with imported or foreign designed engines. And the LCA is not 7-9 tonnes except when it's nearly empty or just carrying fuel. It's AUW is 13.5 tonnes. For the Su-30MKI you quote the AUW, but for the LCA you quote it's nominal take off weight.
Prachand looks like ot already had a crash and was patched up by a panel beater 😊
AMCA has to be realised with a fully functional prototype no later than 2026 & induction into the air force by 2030 . . . AMCA has to be a multi role fighter from the very beginning (prototype) . . .
Prototype not before 2035
😮😅
Vikramaditya 2.5 billion dollars
S 400 5 billions dollar Project 18 4 billion dollars we have paid so much money to Russia and France. No one give TOT to India. Developing indigenous fighter is good
Ka eski umeed jootihe
Goes through when?...first squadron by 2039 😂
Will never happen. 💋
It will inducted in 10 years. 😬😬
Hindi mein bol lo jisse hamare bhi kuch palle pad jaye.
It is a very wrong approach to take foreign help for indigenous engine especially after Kaveri-9 effort. We should go solo, and develop the 110kN wet engine for AMCA, by installing the current one in LCA and get lotsa data.. stop talking till we put the current engine to production. Stop this ToT, waste of blueprints, screwdriver.. stop it. rather buy GE or Snecma or RR straightaway.
why it took so long for our country in any military project.....tejas took decade and now under BJP it's the same with AMCA. GHATAK. F-INSAS etc...
Cant stand these morose qtiya satellites as Ananth Krishnan puts it.
Does ak sir have a beef with these dudes ?
nope, just with affectatious pretentious satellites who know nothing but make narratives with no skin in the game@@raghunandanbs2005
India 🇮🇳 should join TEMPEST or FCAS to make 6th generation fighter jet!
🤩🤩🤩
Nice joke!
All the while you need to buy your aircrafts (plural) and uses technologies from Dassault of France to help lift yours Tejas off of the ground.
Keep joking! You are no KAAN!
🤩🤩🤩
Hindustan mai rehte hoo yaha ka khate tu program mai hindi bolne me kyo sharam ati aa...😮😮😮
Hindi kya punjabi kyu nahi. Punjabi bhi toh Bharat ki Bhasa hai.
@@xenon6947 yeh bhi sahi hai mai kudh Punjabi hoon
Bengali kyu nhi
Bengal India me nhi hai kya
2024 BJP 400 Par 🇮🇳♥️🔥
Bjp is doing nothing look from your eyes .
Neighbours can attack any time and India will keep watching like a namard transgender
HAL will definitely delay this and will talk about its delivery deadline in 2034 😂😂😂
We need a fastrack deadline based SVP otherwise HAL babu’s will just delay like they did it to all indian aero advancements.
India should involve private players directly for these deadline based deliveries as they work on profit/loss model but HAL thinks its govt money and nobody is accountable
Please see Tejas mk1 time lines.
Hal is doing a perfect job.
Blame bureaucracy and government for not releasing funds on time
Why is hal blamed for iaf and Indian govts fault iaf always wanted fgfa and the govt delayed funds for 2 years , and do you realise that amca is Ada 's project not hal's .
Just a bunch of dreamers and hype generators. Bet that the product will NOT be anywhere adjacent to the speel being gurgitated.
We should improve manufacturing standards. Tejas and prachand look like they were made by local roadside garage. DRDOs capabilities are suspect. This looks like a mashup of Israeli radar , avionics , ew suits , American engine , French and Russian missiles on a watered down f35 airframe. Better approach would be to improve Tajas , work on Tejas MK2 , may be diverterless supersonic inlets , sensor fusion , STOl capabilities and make it a success. Buying F35s would make more sense that AMCA at this moment. With AmCA We’ll end up with an airplane that is close to obsolete when it will be ready for induction in 20 years time.
How we ended up in such a worse situation? Is modi working for china and pakistan government?
Inefficient agencies... Drop it and borrow 5th gen from Russia
Again borrow? Are you Shameless.