What did you think of Éamon de Valera? Co. Clare, Ireland 1975
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- Опубліковано 11 кві 2021
- People from Ennis, County Clare lament the death of former Taoiseach and President Éamon de Valera.
No Irish leader ever held the political state so long. Éamon de Valera dominated Irish politics, in or out of office, from the East-Clare by-election of 1917 , to the years of neutrality and beyond.
This is the assessment of de Valera’s legacy by historian John A Murphy of the History Department at University College Cork. But what do the people of Ennis, County Clare think?
This clip from the programme ‘Eamon de Valera and the People of Clare’ includes vox pops with people in Ennis town centre, who comment on what de Valera meant to them upon his death.
Although he was born in New York, de Valera was sent back to Ireland and was brought up by his grandmother in Bruree Co.Limerick
The programme ‘Eamon De Valera and the people of Clare’ was produced and directed by Eoghan Harris and broadcast on 2 September 1975. - Розваги
When men wore suits daily. Greetings from Scotland. De Valera said: “The financial contribution to the Irish struggle from among the Scottish communities was in excess of funds from any other country, including Ireland.”
A nice tribute
Yeah but they were the Irish in Scotland. Irish people in Scotland were not accepted as Scots - they were second class citizens then.
Was he not a scumbag nazi?
Bit like England are giving Scotland the money today then
@@sirjellybeans1st19 my god you are right there son just like that tan boy Leo the Leek fact
The Irish civil war is the cringes event in history for me. I wish Collins and Dev sat down and talked to each other rather then fight, I understand that both of them had their pro’s and cons but if Ireland had both of them for the majority of the 20th century, I believe Ireland would be in a better position today.
Yeah, if Collins was in power he wouldn't do stupid things like give preists power, all the harm he caused on people.
Their goals were mutually exclusive, no compromise was possible. The only way the civil war could have been avoided is if one side was able to gain total domination over the other.
Collins was no fascist. We have to come to terms with the sick legacy of Dev’s fascism and the church’s abuses. Further, it’s the great undoing of the church. A great devilry was let in after that.
Connor Michael Collins You are correct. De Valera was responsible for Collins death.
@@aarondoodles3380 balderdash. If anything the church had enormous influence on Dev and if not for that influence we would have been a communist state.
The turns of phrase are brilliant. "Got a lot of false ideas, a lot of things rubbed into us, like".
True
I believe he says 'drummed' into us
Sinéad also died that year. They were married 65 years.
My family knew him personally from before he came to office and during all those years.. I was born and bred in England. De Valera was friends with my grandparents. When my Father was around 13, he was out playing in the fields with his brothers and saw smart cars pull up outside the cottage. the boys ran to see who was visiting. Three cars of men and some were bodyguards. they ran in the house to see De Valera had picked up their Mother, my Granny and he was exclaiming, Ah Molly, you are as beautiful as ever (she was when a young woman). Best china down off the dresser and tea and chat all round. Just a few years later, when it was The Emergency, the war years, my Father managed to lie about his age, adding around 18 months, and joined the Irish Army. He was rather good at drill and shooting and athletic. The Tattoo at Dublin Caste was coming up and a sgt. was set to choose who would form the Honour Guard for Mr. De Valera. Dad was called to the battalion commanders office where a very disgruntled looking sgt wouldn;t look him in the face. He was told he would be on the honour guard At rehearsals the Sgt. made no bones about the fact he was very upset things had been taken out of his hands and my Father was to be on the honour guard. He was genuinely good at drill though. Come the day of the ceremony mr. De Valera walked down the rank of young shoulders. My Dad had mentioned in the barrack bock he had met him nd he was known well to the family and they simply did not believe him. On the review he stopped in front of Dad and said. Ah.. yes. which one of the Houlihans are you ten? he enquired after my grandparents and 'your lovely Mother, Molly.' that shut the sniggering up in the barrack block from the other boys. lol. When I was ten years of age in 1966 we were due to spend a couple of weeks staying with one of Dads older brothers and his wife in Cork City. Unfortunately, my uncle suddenly died in his mid 50s. Dad went over for the funeral and said to his widow, obviously the holiday in 6 weeks wouldnt take place. She insisted we go. Whilst there on morning I was in her front room and Dad came in and showed me a telegram and said. Read that. i did so.. It was from the De Valera family with condolences on my uncles' passing. Dad explained who Mr. De Valera was and told me the stories above and said, You remember you saw this telegram. Mr. De Valera and his family are friends of your family and he is a very important man in Irish History. He was still alive then. My Dad was told by the disgruntled sgt. that Mr. De Valera had specifically asked he meet my Father to speak to. Seems the Battalion commander put him in the Honour Guard specifically.I think he may have got into it on his own merits. He later joined the RAF and amongst his duties.. he was a drill sgt. lol.
great story .. great ending.
Fabulous story. Real information and nice to hear straight up history from a source. Lucky family to have those memories.
Dev once said "It's my considered opinion that in the fullness of time, history will record the greatness of Collins and it will be recorded at my expense." He was right about that. The guy at 2:30 was ahead of his time in his verdict on him.
Dev's finest achievement was in maintaining neutrality in WW2. But he held Ireland back economically and socially for decades.
neutrality was nothing short of cowardice and a disgrace, nearly as awful as the way the brave irishmen who fought in WW2 were treated when they came home
@@sammurray9644 there’s a very long list of countries in WWII who were neutral until they were invaded.
In the end he was a product of his time, which was why he got elected.
The economic war was one policy which did great harm, besides that as a weak country economically, our trade deals with the UK, which made up a large percentage, where strongly in their favour.
The shoe is definitely on the other foot now.
@@sammurray9644 yes many Irish service men deserted the Irish Army and joined the British.
Whatever your reasons, it’s still a court-martial, same is true for every army in the world.
Eventually they were all pardoned, but far too late.
@@ClannCholmain and a much shorter list of nations who did nothing and sent condolences to Germany on Hitler's passing. Also, you think all 70,000 Irishmen who fought were 'irish service men'?! They were common citizens who knew it was the right thing to do and did not deserve to be ostracised by society on return.
A noticeable thing about almost all the men interviewed - they reflect before answering and then speak softly and thoughtfully. They sound like men who valued what used to be called 'respect'. To me the saddest thing isn't that modern Ireland no longer respects de Valera (that's our choice). The saddest thing is that we seem to have lost the capacity even to understand why so many of his own generation did respect him.
Well said
Good point there
Absolutely incredible comment👌🏼 so many in Ireland lack critical thinking and would rather get their history from a Michael Jordan film. It’s crazy how much knowledge of that period has been lost in a bare generation.
Very well said, sir. Sadly, respect is lacking in a lot of many countries today...
@@tadhgocallaghan2201US influence, capitalism, social media I would say are the biggest reasons for this loss of respect.
Seven ages of Ireland is a good watch if you like history . It was made back in the 1980's . I'm sure a few experts will find fault with it but for the common man it's ok .
In the whole Eamon de Valera vs. Michael Collins debate, really I think it boils down to this... I think Dev was a romantic, while Collins was a realist.
You can see it in how they conducted themselves, Eamon allowed himself to be captured, while Michael chose to escape, Eamon wanted to capture towns, while Michael knew the only way to fight the Brits was with Guerrilla tactics, Eamon refused to accept anything less than the Republic all Irishmen and women had been fighting for, Michael recognized while it wasnt what they wanted, they had achieved more in the Peace treaty than any of their ancestors had in the last 700 years, and it was their best hope to take apart the Free State from the inside, they had barely held out against the Brits in the first War, and risked to lose it all in a second, a risk not worth taking.
Eamon was someone who would rather lose with dignity, than win by underhanded means, and I think that was his biggest flaw, but without a doubt both men were patriots, heroes, and founding fathers of Ireland.
DeValera brought Ireland to extreme Poverty and granted way too much power and influence to the Catholic Church over the Country IMHO
Sad but true
It’s a shame they did this just in clare, his constituency. I’m sure he was extremely popular at that time most places but it’s a bit like gaging opinion on Liam cosgrave by interviewing people in Dún Laoghaire.
2:31 You can feel the frustration of the young at the time, I wonder what he meant about the false ideas that Dev drummed into us, you know he has a lot more to say
Any worse than the false ideas we're being fed now by our media demigods of equality diversity nonsense
@@Peteriscoolz so true! Absolute nonsense over shadowing the real issues in our world
@@Peteriscoolz I've never met a racist I coudlnt absolutely batter
@@bobbieeeee Suppose Padraig Pearse and Mike Collins were big ol racists then wanting to take back their homeland from foreigners :)
@@bobbieeeee Oh and you couldnt batter a sausage boy
Mammy, are you listening up there in Heaven and constantly bursting into song, with VOTE VOTE VOTE FER de Valera! Miss ya Ma
the anglo-Irish media in this country have crafted this image that he was worse than Cromwell
Tim Pat Coogan wrote a book full off bollox and Neil Jordan made the work of fiction Michael Collins. They gave him the image he has today.
It's all forgotten every Easter, that DeValera had nearly ten times more Irishmen executed that the 28 executed by the British.
Just sayin.
Collins executed 81 people
@@finntraynor3904
Well between him and DeValera, they did Ireland proud, you think?
Such hatred in the land, even today.
Another reason I left.
......and a letter of sympathy to Germany on the death of Hitler ?....ffs !.. jeez, it had to be us !..
@@paulfogarty7724
Shhh..we keep quite about that one.
It's seems Dev was out of touch with everyone, but himself.
The entire world was at war, and it was an "emergency," to DeValera.
@@paulfogarty7724 and he dropped the ball when it came to getting the 6 counties of the north back by refusing Churchill’s offer in return for support for the allied cause in WW2! One has to suspect he thought the Germans would defeat the allies, but he hid behind the excuse Ireland wanted to remain neutral..... and it’s well known the IRA gave support to the Germans by giving them locations of fresh water sources and lighting beacons up the east coast of Ireland! Sending the letter of condolence to the German embassy in Dublin for Hitler’s death was a bad decision..... again, he hid behind the excuse it was merely a diplomatic act that he would do for any country! I think he made the mistake of thinking ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.....
He enabled the destruction of our built heritage through the land commission and kept Ireland an insular place and tried to cut us off from the world. he would have a lot to answer for.
With such a broad,trite and nebulous assertion as "he kept Ireland an insular and tried to cut us off from the world". You have a lot of arguement left to put forward ...
The world was the British empire at the time.
Why didn't you say that in 1975 down in Ennis? :-( It would have been a fitting response to the consensus. Without a shadow of a doubt . . . :-)
He did what very few are asked to do .. he laid his life on the line for his country. For that he deserves his place of honour in Ireland. Walking out of the Dail in with his delegates after the Anglo-Treaty delegates had voted in favour of ratification - that was the most destructive thing he did. The people of Ireland had selected their candidates primarily on their position on the treaty - pro or anti. Ireland spoke in the Dail. The choice and voice of the people is the central feature of a democracy. DeValera ignored the people - and instead pushed forward with the same idiotic fervour he had before the Anglo-Irish Treaty was signed in London in December of 1921. Devalera knew what was on offer in London, he had been there - alone in the Cabinet Room of No. 10 Downing Street with Lloyd George just a few months before Griffith and Collins. He was offered then what was offered to Griffith and Collins. He didn't want to be the one to compromise - he wanted all or nothing. That option was perfectly viable if Ireland had a standing army that could go toe to toe with the biggest army in the world at that time - the British Army. Prime Minister Loyd George - the Welsh Wizard - was in a very sticky situation. He needed a resolution - some kind of resolution to 'the Irish question'. The DeValera demand for either a United Ireland or a complete seperation of the whole island from Britian was not remotely possible. For the Crown to forfeit it's first colonly at the height her global dominace as an Empire was an invitation for others to follow suit - the Crown was having none of that. Collins on the other hand - a man that knew the British, lived and worked amongst them he knew what was possible - both he and Arthur Griffith knew what was possible and with a deep breath and courage they took the first step - a step Devalera would never be able to take. His reality was in dreamland with Patrick Pearse and James Clarke.
Devalera at the helm in the 30s and on and off through to the late 60's was a disaster for Ireland. The same feeble insight into what was happening in the world of economics and in Britain our largest natural trading partner left a stagnant and moribund economy that would not progress until he and his cronies were long gone.
In conclusion, it is my opinion that Ireland would have been so much better equipped to deal with early to mid 20th century without Devalera. He was at best an impediment and more to the truth - and especially when we include social Ireland with economic Ireland - a disaster. Ireland would be far better off if the name DeValera remained in the easter shores of the United States from whence he hailed.
This was filmed in my grandparents home town and I still can't understand anything they are saying.
None of them seemed to care about his back stabbing of Collins
He made some big mistakes in his career like when he didn't attend the Anglo Irish talks after the war of Indepence which eventually led to the civil war. Another big error of judgment was when he sent condolences on behalf of Ireland on the death of Hitler and refused to allow Jewish refugees in during WW2.
I think he shafted Collins by sending to the Anglo Irish talks , he knew deep down collins wouldn’t get agreement on the whole of Ireland
Getting independence
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89amon_de_Valera_Forest In 1948 De Valera overruled the Department of Justice when it barred one hundred and fifty refugee Jewish children from travelling to Ireland as refugees.
@@Krawn_ That was after the war Thank God he had realised his mistakes by then .
@Lalealyn Yes the blue shirts would have been much more anti Jewish as reflected in some of the speeches of people like Oliver j Flanagan
Nobody is saying that Dev was evil but he should have been grateful that allies defeated the Nazis because if they had conquered Britain Ireland would most probably be next in the list
Excellent video 👌
A politician extraordinary, nothing more to say. 'Hell did a lot of good and a lot of harm' a politician!
True
Was pissed off with Eamon Dev because he died during the summer holidays and got no day off school Ann Murphy 🇨🇮😅
Dev A controversial figure in Irish politics. Let you decide! Thanks for posting
Came for the comments and I still don't have a clue what went on.
A fine statesman but I do hold him to blame for the power of the church and all the harm that has caused. 1937 constitution is a fine document save for all the religious piety in it.
Don't tell us..... you would have preferred the communist manifesto.
@Alexander Hendry of course...
They were mostly all Freemasons..
same as Lenin and Trotsky.
@Alexander Hendry ok plenty were as you well know but I don't deal in the stuff of diabolic organizations
Yes I agree
@@KitiwakeWouldn't mind it though.
most of the people in clare would have supported dev. my dad commenting on how young they were when he came to clare
say what you will about Dev, that speech he gave in response to churchill in 1945 was pure class and one of the best political speeches ever
ua-cam.com/video/SHx7Xa05Now/v-deo.html
News Ireland channel turns off comments???
I'd turn off tv if I were there.
Amazing content, historic . REAL!
GRACIAS
In fairness though, he probably could have used his enormous influence, charisma, and power to blunt, if not stop the actual Civil War, and if not to heal divisions within the Republic and reach out earnestly to the North when he reached his pinnacle as head of the government.
you know Dev sent a letter of condolence to the nazi high command on the the death of Adolf Hitler right after they surrendered right ?
@@stephenc8 yeah but that was standard diplomatic protocol at the time
Yes true
Develera was nothing Collins was the man.
His policys kept Irish economy poor after WW2.
We may have been poor, but at least we were Irish. Now we are economically enslaved to the global economy and to multinational corporations who effectively dictate policy.
Yes I agree
@@michaeljohn5999 de Valera had us subservient to a global power of a different sort - the Vatican (who only ever sided with power)
@@michaeljohn5999 You me and many others could be covered by that statement once you change the nationality. Sad huh.
Yes I agree
Devil era.
Just proves how the chief was a great leader , but in recent years especially since the Michael Collins movie people seem to have turned on him and forgotten how much he did for Ireland, long live the chief.
I admired dealers from 1916 to 1921 but highly critical of him for the civil war admired him again for keeping Ireland neutral in wwtwo but back to being highly critical of him in the 19 50 s held on to power too long so he s a a great half and half
2:28 that man was talking about the Church, I'd say, and how de Valera basically swapped it for the Brits.
What would they think of Leo?
away from the subject, did you notice how well-dressed well-spoken polite and informed the people were back then compared to today, Irish history was very important to the people back then and they were rightly proud of the Irishmen who campaigned for them on both sides of the divide, even the young lads in the background show the older guys respect and let them speak, today they would be shouted down by thick stupid louts
If you were pro Dev you were for a United Ireland and Fianna Fail. Pro Collins you were for a Free State and Fine Gael. Such huge differences in a different era. Nowadays there is nothing to separate them..economic policies are the same..they are essentially are 2 cheeks of the same arse. It has come full circle.
Two capitalist parties with the same capitalist policies. Maybe Connolly was right? Maybe we'll never truly be free until we own our own island, instead of lazy businessmen who don't work.
I say all this, but i don't think there's any political parties to go with this. Sinn Fein... i dont even know what they stand for at this point, PBP, no backbone. Don't know about CPI though.
@@tempejkl I'd rather a capitalist party in power than left wing party like Sinn Fein who want to pay the man that stays in bed the same as the man that goes out to work.
@tempejkl I'm all for capitalism. People not willing to work thinking they should get the same and more than those that do is reason Ireland has become a dump. Lost alot of excellent qualified skill people to emigration because of this. The working man footing bigger bills constantly.
All these men built Oreland
Europe had it's fair share of Dictators in the early to mid twentieth century. And Dev certainly viewed himself as Ireland's benevolent Dictator.
He removed one oppressor and then willingly enabled another. Himself and McQuaid turned Ireland into an insular, theocratic, agricultural society. And tried their damnedest to keep us that way.
As the man says in the video, "he did a lot of good but, a lot of harm too"
Sorry, but no. This lets so many people off the hook regarding the abuse of the Catholic Church.
The Cumann na nGaedheal government had been in bed with the Catholic Church in the 1920s, with the Church excommunicating all anti-Treaty forces, and the state restricting divorce in 1926 (much to the chagrin of Yeats, then serving as a Senator).
Here's a quote from then Taoiseach John A. Costello (FG) in 1951
"I am an Irishman second: I am a Catholic first and I accept without qualification in all respects the teaching of the hierarchy and the church to which I belong."
This was during the Mother and Child Scheme, where he forced Minister Noel Browne to resign over his refusal to bow to the Catholic Church.
And the Labour Party isn't blameless either. IIRC, they had strong links to the Knights of St Columbanus for nearly 50 years.
These men were all voted into power by a deeply Catholic society. In short, the government was in bed with the Catholic Church because the people also were.
And don't forget all the parents who participated in shipping their children off to the Magdalene Laundries.
@@Corc-Duibhne There was no intention of letting anyone of the hook. Dev didn't drive anyone to the mother and baby homes. However, by getting into bed with McQuaid. He certainly paved the way for an enabling of these events to be common place in Irish society, right up the 80's.
@@turnpiketumbler8938 Yeah, sorry for the rant being directed towards yourself, you were simply one of the top comments.
I just feel like Dev is scapegoated for a lot of Ireland's problems with the Church, which he certainly did contribute to.
But the reality is that it was a far more underlying problem in Irish society, and every other government at the time was just as bad. They were elected by the same people.
@@turnpiketumbler8938 Dev was excommunicated by the Catholic Church.
most of the Bishops & Parish Priests & the professional classes were blueshirts.
@@michaelotoole4703 that was before he wrote up the constitution. The Church would make an exception for that one.
Who's the presenter? Is it Vincent ?
I believe it is. He'd have been 30-31 then.
That's Professor John A Murphy of the History Department at University College Cork.
On 26 January 1950, Éamon de Valera was asked to be guest of honour at a reception in Birmingham to celebrate the declaration of India as a republic. At first glance it seemed an unusual choice. The organisers were asked why they had not chosen a fellow Indian. Their response was unequivocal:
‘We and the Irish had strong ties of friendship. We suffered under the same tyranny for many centuries. They had the Black and Tans; we had the massacre of Amritsar. They had de Valera and Casement and MacSwiney; we had Gandhi and Nehru and Bose. They had Sinn Féin; we had our National Congress. They had the IRA; we had the INA. It is not only for the smile and the shamrock we know Ireland. It is for the toughness of their leaders and for the rebellion in their hearts.’
If we'd only a drop of it now
We had it for 500 years more.
de Valera, Gandhi and Thomas Jefferson had agrarian visions and saw urban and industry as corrupting. However, not everyone wants a simple and poor country life.
@@freebornjohn2687 the odd one out was a slave owner.
@@freebornjohn2687 its fine for the English middle classes though.
If u admire edv can u still admire collins?
Yes. Seán Lemass did.
My grandmother Christine Gilligan did not like him one bit she was from Ennis.
I wonder how many of the idiots on here slating Dev would’ve been willing to risk their very life for the freedom of their nation. I doubt even 1% would’ve had it in them.
I think you'd find that every Irishman commenting on here, would fight and die for Ireland including me! De Valera had several Irish born men exiled and executed 28 immediately after the war ended in May 1923. Imagine this American born, foreign half Irishman, doing to us exactly what those brits did and imagine being a false patriot supporting him. De Valera politically and historically did Ireland a huge amount of damage after the civil war ended, he prevented growth, business investments, social infrastructure, housing and the free market investments. It took until the late eighties for that vision to be achieved by forward thinking financially astute TD's. De Valera should have gone back to New York where he was born, Irishman me hole .
1:40 Jaysus! Could you look or sound more Irish than disfella
To the Dev haters, look at the state of the slíbíns we have today, and the state of Irish government cabinet, the worst in the history of the state. One of the only TDs with the bollocks to challenge the government is from Ennis, so that says something about the people of his town and their opinions in this clip. And please look at the constitution of the free state, then compare it to 1937 constitution people are complaining about, you will learn that the constitution of the free state made our ancestors and country subjects of the crown, meaning that the fight for the republic was in vain.
Ah sure... don't we all become saints when we die.........
Devalera was a good man but he let Collins down and run to America 😢
The Irish civil war involved world war one veterans on both sides ,It seems to have become a blood lust event between two sides of post traumatic stressed veterans, (many civilian deaths in the cross fire) The insane situation of IRA purging protestants in to the very 6 states they were trying to fight for , when in Irish history many protestants fought for Home Rule and independence for Ireland ,
The only thing DeValera brought to Ireland was a civil war to our country at a time when it was vital we were united and making plans for our future. RIP Michael Collins.
Totally agree
@Leo D'Arcy Sadly we can not speak of what Michael Collins would have gone on to achieve for his country and people because we chose to kill him.
Collins got a taste of the good life in London, he armed himself with weapons supplied by the British and turned them on his own irish men people who fought with him, All the good he had done was undone by this act, rip Liam lynch stayed true to the end
@Leo D'Arcy bang on Leo. Regardless of what people think of him all the good and bad he done, The accusations that they level at him now of days are conspiracy and revised history. A lot of it stemming from a fictitious movie on Michael Collins.
I regard Collins as a hero but two but both of them done good and bad, of course we have the gift of hindsight. We know the outcome.
@Leo D'Arcy that same constitution which gave the church power and control and the same man who crippled Ireland socially and economically.... two sides to every coin
Im from Texas. Who were these people to you all?
I'm American myself, but I'm in Boston and have Irish family, so I grew up knowing about this subject. Admittedly, though, I have no stake in it. So the man who died was Eamon DeValera. He was a main leader in the Easter Rising of 1916 and helped form the Irish Constitution, eventually going on to become the third president of Ireland. He is to Ireland what men like Sam Houston and Davy Crockett are to your native Texas, or what Thomas Jefferson was to the American Revolution. The only difference here, though, is that the men who shaped the early Irish republic lived in much more recent times than the previously mentioned men, so we are able to easily hear the opinions of ordinary common people who lived through it all. DeValera (who was actually born in America, though raised in Ireland) died in 1975, the year this was filmed and they are asking people their opinions.
As I said, I have no real stake in it. I was born and bred here in America and although we have places like Boston with a very high population of Irish-descended Catholic folks, they have still been cut off from Ireland for a few generations and so have been fully americanised. I also have English family as well, so I never felt particularly attached to one side of Irish republicanism. That said, however, most reasonable people can see the virtues in both Eamon DeValera and Michael Collins.
You will notice a lot of heated opinions in the comments, no different than when history buffs here get into squabbles about Jefferson vs. Adams (the two both loved and hated each other) or Jefferson vs. Washington, etc. Every country has men like this, the men who at one time were the best of friends in shaping the nation, but would later go on to vehemently oppose one another. The other main leader of the aforementioned Easter Rising was Michael Collins, who ended up settling on a treaty with Great Britain. Many hardcore Irish republicans view Collins as a traitor and see DeValera as a hero. Today, opinions are ever more nuanced and complicated, but generally, your average city-dwelling, fairly liberal fella would probably see Collins as the hero and DeValera as the villain. This seems to be the most common opinion I hear from young, liberal pro EU types, but they are not the only people with this opinion, so it does vary. Remember, I'm speaking in a very, very general sense here. A lot of people today blame DeValera for creating an Ireland that was staunchly conservative and devoutly Catholic, and they see him as an "isolationist" who cut Ireland off from a rapidly changing world. Although I'm not really big on Irish republicanism either way (personally, I'm a traditionalist, not a fan of social democratic systems of any kind) I do happen to think that opinion is very ridiculous. I remember hearing nothing but good things said about DeValera from my family. I see both men as having had a lot of good, though. Collins, to be fair, was under an immense amount of pressure and the man was totally fearless. He wanted peace so he settled on the Anglo-Irish treaty. This got him assassinated, sadly. You know the actor Brendan Gleason? He played him in a film, check it out. It isn't exactly totally accurate, but it will give you a general idea about what was going on at that time.
Anyway, I'm sure you notice the parallels here. As I said, every country has men like this, the men that shaped the nation and it's laws, it's just that ours were a much longer time ago.
@@charlesmaximus9161 Thanks for putting the time and effort in to write all that out.
@@charlesmaximus9161 Collins was not a leader in 1916
There was only one truly great politician in the history of this state and his name was Noel Browne
Noel Browne 🤢🤢🤢
What do I think of Eamon de valera.im sorry I can't remember him, which football team did he play for
That'd be the republicans
Real Madrid, I think......
You probably need to head back to school - I would think that History and English language classes would be recommended.
@@michaeloleary2094 Michael ,you might have a few planes these days ,but I remember you when you used to row the boat ashore hallelujah
Rangers F.C.
Did lots of good things up to the 1940s but unfortunately spent the 1950s holding back the future in Ireland. Along with the Catholic Church. While England Europe and the world went ahead in that decade, Ireland went backwards big time.
The welfare state destroyed Ireland and made it a planned economy. Everything from the price of butter through to clothing was controlled by the state.
Sad but true
What 'future' was that? Destruction of national identity ? British and American trash culture dominating Ireland? How do you like 'the future ' today with mass immigration?
Eoin mclove @ 1.30
Well spotted
Irish hair is an incredible phenomenon that should be preserved for posterity.
I wonder what de valera would make of today's Ireland ? 🇮🇪 we used to play a skipping game using de valeras name ! "Vote vote vote for de valera here comes haughey at the door, he is the one who's having all the fun so we don't need de valera anymore" !!
Significant of de Valera's Ireland that not a single woman is consulted, though their view would have been the same I think.
De Valera presided over a long period of economic stagnation and would seem to have been hostile to Ireland's opening to the outside world.
His approach to commerce was deeply protectionist, even after the end of the ruinous economic war with Britain in 1938.
His connivence with the Church was an essential aspect of his policy and he encouraged it to continue with and further develop its domineering and abusive positions and practices.
Single mothers were pilloried and in practice deprived of employment.
Women who married had to leave their jobs in many instances and those who did continue to work were subject to a specific and punitive tax regime.
Contraception was of course outlawed and de Valera even introduced a constitutional ban on divorce.
Most internationally famed Irish artists were censored in their home country.
A young man talks about false ideas and the narrative de Valera promoted on Northern Ireland was indeed most unhelpful, with the idea that if only the British would withdraw the island could promptly re-unite This narrative probably led to necessary deaths.
Neutrality is certainly a major feature. It had its advantages but some could regard the moral grounds as doubtful.
The business about going to see the German ambassador when Hitler died is what bothers me least. It's very understandable. De Valera was a very single minded individual who followed through on his ideas. He considered that this was a formal gesture required of a neutral once an ambassador had been accepted to start with.
Devil in Éire..edit that one out. My dads Irish republic book is like a piece of wood. He also had a big head figurine of Eamo in old photos..it was a funny yoke on the mantlepiece
He instigate the Irish civil war. He set up Colin's to be blamed for the treaty.
The Irish (I'm Irish too) fought for independents and put a yank in charge.
People asked themselves in the 1930s, is this what we fought for? De Valera's Ireland. Glad I wasn't round then.
You would think Ennis was populated entirely by men... no women were interviewed at all!!!
Sad but true
Collins was and will always be a true Irish hero. Dev was only a someone feeding off Collins to gain power.
What's that Cork local talent Murphy reading? UCC FFS
Those old guys have no toothaches now.
Hilarious
Best politician we ever had and will have. Just a bunch of crooks now.
@Lalealyn Those were introduced before he came to power. He gave you the vote, new roads, schools, jobs, careers and human rights. Guess all that is useless though 🙄
@Lalealyn Where are you even getting this stuff? Catholics weren't allowed to vote or run for election so you're wrong on that one. You say he moulded everything and you make it sound like he's one man with all the power. There was a government. And the only executions we know of were done by the Freestate, which he opposed. Most of what you are saying happened on a local level so to be honest everyone is to blame. And I think you're getting mixed up with the Freestate and him.
Anyway, fact is he did more for Ireland than anyone else and you can't change that 😁 I guess that's why he's still respected.
How dare you slag off our politicians, l,ll tell you now Ireland has the best politicians money can buy
When the country needed a leader instead they ended up with a bookkeeper of a man
Pierrepoint was having a bad run during WW2 Dev kept him busy hanging Irishmen
A quick Google search and some fascinating facts about execution in Irish Republic!!!
I wonder why they only asked men
Shut up, feminist.
Only the mens opinions mattered back then. Seriously I think its because they asked at a mart which would have been male dominated.
Where else would you find her indoors.
George Coll
Get him off the de telly sesame street is coming on
Dev was a sellout he set Collins up knowing he wasn't going to get 32 counties my grandfather didn't believe a word out of his mouth he was a brown paper bag man 😮
He sent the Minister of Finance to do a treaty WoW! Shock!
Never liked Dev
@Leo D'Arcy She can still disprove of his legacy
DeValera was the great statesman who sent his condolences to Berlin on the death of Hitler.
@@sadhbhmurphy4700 No, that's a lie. In fact only one other country did that, Mexico, a country which didn't hide its pro-Nazi credentials. Even Hitler's allies in Tokyo didn't do it.
HE Did a lot worse HE went to the German Embassy in Dublin and personally signed a book of condolence on the death of HITLER undeniable
He really didn't want anyone mixing Ireland and England up. But sending condolences to Hitler was taking things too far.
2:10 :-D Typical auld Irish comment.
Ireland’s greatest traitor
Can you explain that one.
@@aine7173 not to someone like you
@@Del-yv1qy yawn
indeed at least that sharpshooter in cork got him before he could do anymore harm
SO why should we be surprised at LIAM LAWLOR RAY BURKE PAURIC FLYNN FRANK DUNLOP CHARLIE HAUGHEY BERTY AHERN ETC ETC ETC must make out a full list Why should we be surprised That is what they came from
Yammon DeValera ?
De Valera the Snake sent Collins to his death and his son was no better, traitor's
Where did that bollox come out off
Valera crossed to Spain and signed the book of Condolence at the Nazi embassy when Hitler died.
Correct he was a supporter of the murderous Nazi regime and genocide .He also supported the catholic church’s rape of Ireland , the Magdalene laundries and orphanages are stark reminders. He was also responsible for the murder of many Irish people mostly in the pursuit of power and his personal ambitions, his Cuban name says it all , Castro would have been proud of him.
@@royalirishranger1931 Doesn't surprise me that a "Royal Irish Ranger" would equate Castro with Nazism
@@royalirishranger1931Are you seriously comparing de Valera, an american (and i think part argentinian) with fucking Fidel Castro? They quite literally have nothing in common. Could you not think of a single other leader? Like Peron, or Pinochet?
Finally get some sort of freedom from the Brits and what does he do but hand the power over to the Catholic Church! Ireland greatest traitor is what he should be remembered for! Collins was twice the man!
You clearly don’t know anything about the Church’s gigantic role in resistance to British rule nor its unique role in attempting to preserve Gaelic and the Irish language. This “mean old Church” crap is based on nothing but media hysteria and your own inability to balance individual crimes against organisational virtue. Instead you just buy into a load of nonsense aimed at attacking the only organised form of resistance the Irish has for 800 years- their Faith.
@@TodayFreedom Apart from all the sexual abuse, stealing and selling of kids, mass graves of thousands of dead babies they were great people! In 20 years time the church will be gone from this country and good riddens!
@@Starryplough1916 weird that in the abuse scandals it's all males with young boys? I think the issue is homosexuality not religion then? All religions have done bad just like all people have done bad its a shame your mocking christianity while praising the leaders of 1916 in your name they would be disgusted.
Yes I agree
@@sadhbhmurphy4700You cannot let a church dominate the state. No matter how good the church is, it is simply wrong to do it, you are giving yourself up to foreign influence.
The abuse was definitely helped by the amount of power they had. If they didn't have power, they would think twice. Although i'm really wondering how they chose priests at that time.
I'm a catholic but total church supremacy is not good. Allow people to pray in public, even in political institutions, but do not let the church dominate.
Maybe the British Empires greatest undercover agent.
Absolutely! I have read the official court martial papers for the 1916 leaders and Dev was NOT court martialled! No record whatsoever of him being before the military court, being condemmed to death and reprieved. Make of that what you will.
Lol.
@@Aindriuh they had a role for him all along . Done more for the British interests in Ireland than any their leaders
If he really was a British agent he wouldn't have dug his heels in on Irish neutrality in the war.
@Sir Klopp Most of the Irish public during that period of the war wished the Germans would beat the British Empire. So technically he was going against the will of the people. Keeping us neutral meant many economically disadvantaged Irish men would volenteer for a pay check to join the British army. So my answer is still Maybe.
The only reason he got elected after the war of independance was because he was running against the blueshirts and people thought it was better to have him over people who were out and out facists and hated jews you have to remember facism was sweeping europe at the time and ireland was no exception ...had he ran against a normal party in normal times ireland would have had a better less painful history and perhaps irish in the north would have faired better.
Englands greatest spy is a must read
Dev , our greatest leader ever. A thing I particularly liked about him is he really annoyed the people that annoy me. The liberal elite types.
Me too
A Spaniard.
His mother was Irish
Micheal Collins is the reason why were a republic and we're now one of the greatest nations on earth thank you Micheal you absolute legend of a man
I totally agree
It's strange how women's opinion on the subject didn't seem to matter in that time
Éamon de Valera hated the republic of Ireland controlled by the UK + he's an anti British hardliner.
Why would he want an independent republic to be controlled by the Uk?
@@murpho999 it wasn't him it was his pro treaty rivals founded by Michael Collins.
Won of the bist min.
A criminal
He was one of the worst things to happen to Ireland
Dev was a dictator
Sheep still sleeping BAM 🐑🐑🐑
Marvellous man my arse, He secured the partition of Ireland.
The partition of Ireland was a reality dejure before independence, perhaps even before that.
We need the church back in Ireland
Eh no thanks. They’re still here by the way.
Hail Glorious Saints And Martyrs Of Éireann. ☘🇮🇪🕊✊🏻
We still have it. If it wants to survive, it really needs to get involved with communities more.
He wasn't even a clare man he was a yank
He was only born there.
dev was a bollox
Éamon de Valera has extremely long nose
Pinocchio
Hands too.
Fools the lot of them. Pure ignorant.
Disagree there some of them I can agree with
Say what you want about Eamon De Valera, but he rejected the democratic will of the people when it came to the Anglo Irish Treaty. He oversaw a Civil War that killed more Irish people than the war of Independence, and led to the assassination of Michael Collins, the man the Irish had elected to be their leader. For that reason I am not surprised that he has been given the appropriate title of Ireland’s hated hero. He was truly as disgrace
De Valera kept Ireland neutral while the rest of Europe was captured by fascism. and Dev respected the Northern Protestants while others down South insulted them. He was somewhat ahead of his time in that regard.
@@kennyryan625 A lot of people here are just painting him with an absurd brush. He did not start the Irish Civil War (1922-1923) and who cares about democracy in 1922? What about in 1916 when they rebelled? That was undemocratic but this lot do not care. This is so stupid. He did more for Ireland than most. Even criticisms of him the '50s are misplaced because he was not the only guy around in government, the opposition also got into government regularly and it was under him that the economy was being opened.
@@johnnotrealname8168A rebellion is democratic yet authoritarian. It is a segment of the population imposing it's will on the other part, yet if a majority support it, it would be considered democratic.
The liberal 'democratic' system we live in today is not a democracy. If voting actually mattered, they'd do away with it.
De Valera was a Jew
... so was Jesus.
@@winstonsmith2079 Jesus was murdered and rejected by Jews. There's a difference
@@HonourableGentleman. I think you will find it was the Roman's who killed Jebus.
@@winstonsmith2079 Where in the Bible does it say the Romans conspired to kill Jesus? Yet there are dozens of instances where the Jews wanted to murder him
So in repeating the old lie the de Valera was Jewish, what is your actual point?
Éamon de Valera hates the British crown
Dé Velara was useless hippie
Dev was compromised and steared into power by outside interests just like Varadkar and Martin are today. Do you think he escaped that english jail so easily.
No, he got others to make a bloody key for him.