The Very Black History Of Punk Music| AJ+
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Stories about punk music tend to picture thin-framed white guys and girls with shaved heads, part of an angry, energetic scene born out of the working class angst of young white England in the 1970s. But the actual history of punk - as a type of music and movement - is more complicated than that.
Black punks have been an integral and pioneering part of punk history - and they're keeping the movement alive and growing today. Host Sana Saeed explores that history and talks to proto-punk band Death, musician and journalist Greg Tate, the band The 1865 and festival organizer Shawna Shawnté.
Learn more here:
New York Times. “This Band Was Punk Before Punk Was Punk.”www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/art...
Vice. “The Bands Taking British Punk Back to Its Multicultural Roots.” noisey.vice.com/en_us/article...
GQ. “Nazi Punks F**k Off: How Black Flag, Bad Brains and More Took Back Their Scene from White Supremacists.” www.gq.com/story/punks-and-na...
Relevant links:
A Band Called Death: drafthousefilms.com/film/a-ban...
The Universe Is Lit: www.theuniverseislit.com/
Bay Area Girls Rock Camp: www.bayareagirlsrockcamp.org/
The 1865: / the1865band
Presented by: Sana Saeed
Edited by: Brian Joseph and Michael Zipkin
Animations by: Chia Liu
Produced by: Sana Saeed and Kathryn Wheeler
Executive Producer: Sarah Nasr
Music tracks courtesy APM, UA-cam and The 1865.
Footage and images courtesy of Getty Images, The Universe is Lit, Keep on Knocking, LLC, Ed Marshall Photography NYC, Evan Carter and Paul Rosenfield.
From a Black Brazilian, Latin American to the world 🇧🇷 Punk is an attitude, punk is the union of men and women against all rotten systems in the world. Punk is the union of all races. Punk is rock and roll.
Punk Iz Whit Musizk
Nu
@@NiteDriv3r Here's brazilian black my friend.
@@hf3262 Better believe punk is whit muszick boi
@@NiteDriv3r falou pouco mas falou merda, punk é para todos. Não música de gente branca . Responder em pt mm
Death is such an underrated gem of a band.
Shame they didn't mention screaming Jay Hawkins at all; that guy was proto psychobilly, shockrock, punk and goth all rollen into 1 sick act
exactly, I find it very weird when these "documentaries" almost never mention Screamin' Jay Hawkins or other big names.
@@PsychedelicSkull I had seen a video about all the influences that led to goth music and he was the first artist they mentioned
ua-cam.com/play/PLooaZ33lSalcWG8J6JuqPWWJVraFNHt9X.html
@@kevinw8276 Thanks for the suggestion. A bit of a long video, but I'll try to watch it xD
ua-cam.com/video/2ZdoFm-8Crs/v-deo.html
I found punk when I was 10, I am 47 now, and I still consider myself a punk. My musical interests have grown and expanded, but the punk ethos is still in me. I do think punk is just a term that means different things to people, to me it is about pure expression, regardless of technical skill. It is an outlet for aggression, passion, love, and everything that describes the human condition. I do think to many people unfortunately it has been reduced to a fashion, and to some a phase they went through. I try to keep these things alive in my spirit whether I am playing loud electric guitars, soft acoustic, or making noise with a synthesizer. You may not agree, but I really don't care.
express my feelings towards punk rock through skateboarding and playing guitar. black flag,the saints,the damned all influential bands on me
Hello kindred spirit 😊
William Olsen
You definitely got the soul of a punk fan, man. Props to you for being real about it.
I'll be 50 next month and My heart is still black with spikes in it.🤘🏾😛🤘🏾
This is awesome! Well, in my case, I found punk when I was 14. I'm 18 now, and I'm grateful to it for guiding me so far through my life.
I am SO HAPPY that Death is getting some recognition. Such a under rated band.
They’re underrated because there’s also a death metal band named death, they’re also good but I personally prefer death (the punk band)
It's impossible to under rate Death.
🤘🏾
@@existential_raccoonmusic4119 🤘🏾
Black Flag doesn't have shit on Minor Threat and Bad Brains. They're popular because their singer is a jackass and they had a cool symbol. I hate that they're thrown in with BD and MT.
Punk never cared about race or gender.
Say that to the Punk inspired skin heads.
Perhaps. But it took a LOT of bruises and broken bones for that to be the case today. I've still got a finger that doesn't bend right from my time with the ARA.
As true as that may be, that's not what people think of when you say "skinhead". They picture Neo-Nazis, not TradSkins or SHARPs. Because history.
Real skinheads listen to Reggae/ska/punk and are both black and white. Thanks for playing though.
If you're a white guy sure, you get that privilege. But if you're a black kid in the 80's and 90's and you have people looking at you weird or think you're in the wrong place when you show up to a punk bar or mosh pit. Or when all of the people you meet assumes you're into hip-hop and never punk or heavy metal, then it certainly feels that punk cares about race.
Bad Brains and Death were groundbreaking and it wasn’t simply because of their color. It was the music.
YES
But their color is important to their history
@@JCOdrjonesGreg Tate editor of everything but the burden
@@JCOdrjonesIs it or is it more because they were African Americans? You can be a person of color in another country and not have the African American experience. Also, worth-noting Bad Brains and Death have lots of white influences too. I am sure that wasn't how they looked at those bands though. They just thought they were making good shit and used them to find their sound. Music connects people. The moment we start making white music and black music categories again is the moment we lose something special. These were very talented musicians that were black and not very talented black musicians. The wording makes all the difference. It is very discrediting to these talented artists. It is like saying somebody is pretty for a black girl instead of just treating her like a person and telling her she's pretty. You can acknowledge it. Just don't forget that is a person.
@@JetWindTV I feel like you misread what I said and projected a lot here :v
Punk always fought against discrimination, that was the whole premise of it!
No punk rock was about stopping fascists and eating the rich.
@@mopes2713 ,stopping fascists etc. was just an excuse for self righteous zealots to yell and scream how important and all knowing they were while accomplishing nothing. Had nothing to do with punk.
@@ndogg20 Poor people do not have the Power to make fundamental systemic change. All they can do is yell and scream a write songs about how messed up society is.
@Eve Durand EXACTLY!
you eat people?
These people in the comments acting like punk is a white genre is hypocritical and cringe
punk was always white
@@SM-4359 and you'll always be a dumbass
Exactly. The fact that people can’t reconcile the African American contribution to punk and rock and roll is the perfect example for cultural erasure of African Americans, and whites claiming it as their own.
@@primeparadox9796 But it's not true, punk has generally been white. It's you guys who need to virtue signal and pretend it was super black or something. Why don't you talk abut the very black history of blues or mowtown? you don't see us making videos like,"the very white history of hip hop."
shanise miguel punk literally came from black people um...
Latinos that we’re in or still in punk bands: Suicidal Tendencies, Adolescents, D.I., Flipper, Descendants, The Vandals, The Plugz, The Zeros, Misfits, Dr, Know, Black Flag, Circle One, Bad Religion, No FX, Dead Kennedy’s after Jello Biafra, Wasted Youth, Legal Weapon, CH.3, that is just to name a few or I would be hear all day. Shit even speed metal bad asses Tom Araya and Dave Lombardo from Slayer. Someone should do a Latino punk documentary.
Also Alan Vega
Starting with peruvian pioneers Los Saicos
Who is Latino in Misfits? I've never noticed that
manny martinez
To Jonas Jergensen: original drummer from the Misfits was Manny Martinez, later Robo who is Colombian played with them, he also played with Black Flag. Then you have Dez Cadena who also played with Black Flag, and now you have Dave Lombardo who is cuban.
The only people that judged blacks that were into rock music were others blacks.
And it wasn't just rock music, blacks judged black people that were into/did the following:
- Skateboarding
- Dressing formally
- Speaking/talking "white"
- Wanting to go college
- Reading
- Math/Science
- Dated outside of their race (still are judged for this to this day)
- Vote Republican
If your black and you did any of the following I listed, your race would be questioned.
Thanks for whitesplaining
@@therealgodessisis I'm black
@@lilmikey1275no ur not
I've always disliked that "punk" and so many other genres I enjoy are considered "white people music" by many people.
Like what?
Wil Mars grunge rock, I always get called out for listening to it as a black person
i dislike that hip hop is considered black music too!! but you dont see people crying over it!!
I've literally never heard anyone label punk, metal, or grunge as "white people music." Get over yourselves and stop injecting race and victim hood into everything.
It’s ridiculous, if you like punk also listen to bad brains, a predominantly black band but also one of my favourite punk bands ever
It feels nice to see videos like this. It just reminds me, im not alone out here especially being the only black punk guy throughout high school.
Joshua Young Definetly you're not alone, but this video is bad, and missinformed...
@@ferdinandndo8097 What did they get wrong?
@@CarynDPrescott Because they point out the lack of diversity in Punk and they hate that (for some reason)
@@daisymagnus306 No it has more to do with it being inaccurate and snarky. The punk scene looks like they have a lack of diversity if you watch Greeb Day videos because they are more of a pop band then a punk band and at the time pop was all about suburban white faces. If you were actually involved in the actual DIY punk and metal scenes then you already know how diverse it is. Especially if you live in a large city. This lady is clearly not part of the scene and is really talking about the "Warp Tour" punk scene which isn't really considered punk by most punks. Being a nazi at a hardcore punk show could possibly get you killed. And that's a fact. Punks have a hard time taking criticism from outsiders just like hip hop or country or any other genre of music that is heavily tied to a culture/subculture. And the reason for that is outsiders often get it wrong. Especially mainstream journalists who have a vested interest in using clickbait and giving misleading information. It's unfair to say it's because we don't like a lack of diversity being pointed out. I think for most of us, we have a problem with being lumped in with mainstream "punk" because it doesn't reflect the real scene at allwhich is VERY diverse and inclusive. Green Day is for jocks, not punks. The real litmus test for punk is if it is on a major label then it is probably not really punk. Shout out to all my black and brown brothers in the scene. It would not be the same without you. And shout out to all punks/metal punks/crusties who hate fascists and also mainstream media. Fight the power and up the punx.
I bet you hate the white hip hop heads tho
To anyone who grew up in the 80's hard-core scene this is not suprising Fishbone, Bad Brains, In living Color, all the two tone Ska bands. The scene was diverse, we had a blast! I was an old school skinhead had friends who were black skinhead. Big fans of rock steady, Ska and reggae, the Clash the list goes on. Just heard about Death which is amazing! Sad they didn't make it back in the day! It the immortal words of Sham 69 "if the kids are united we will never be divided" For the most part the history of punk is very diverse. I hope it always stays that way. We were united in our passion for each other!!
I'm loving that Death gets so much more recognition the past several years
I mean...it's the only recognition they've gotten. No one knew they existed until 10 years ago.
The more I learn about Death the more I like them! They are the truest punks, imo: just doing exactly what they wanted to do.
as are many other punk bands.
Grew up in a white catholic community but my parents were both writers so I had access to a great deal of culture. Luckily for me my father has an extensive music collection and had a death album, so I was introduced to them somewhere around 2003
Why pick some youngster to read a script for this? Clicks? There is a story to be told but we're not that far on that it can't be told by someone who was there
the weird thing is that back in Britain... al these band started as tribute to african american musics of all kinds and it was not hidden at all. They really worshiped that stuff and came to make it their own. African american musicians from the 1940s onward toured in the UK and did great there... all the way to the 1980s with house music.
Influenced by, yes, tribute to, not really. British musicians were just as influenced by ska & reggae which was Jamaican, not American.
@@77Creation I can't disagree with your comment, my point was that British music had a wider influence than just America and punk specifically was more home grown than American influenced despite what the American in the video tried to claim. I'm replying after a few weeks so I can't remember his name. ✌️
Death "we wanted to be like Alice Cooper"
AJ+ "They invented punk not white people"
Damn, these comments are so mad!
Deadass
I think it's gets people get mad when you take something that they create and completely misconstrued it and distort the information
G how, the people who made and funded this video support modern day slavery and had nothing to do with punk
nazi punks lol they filled the coments
Black ppl in my music....im mad better cry on UA-cam about it
The host knows literally zero about the punk and hardcore movement, how hard would it have been to have found somebody with one iota of a clue ?
its all about superficial image and aesthetic with these pathological leftists. they dont understand content, just how shit looks. thats what popular culture is based on though - image and aesthetic, not actual understanding of technical artistry.
if they got someone with a clue the person wouldn't allow themselves to talk all this crap.
@@phuckgoogle4027 you realize punk started as a left wing movement the Dead Kennedy's were super left wing and the sex pistols were started to sell a brand of clothing
found the dogwhistling skinheads, if theyre not then they're just dumber than I thought. In that case, then my bad.
phuck google punk is leftist
I remember reading a bunch of stuff in the Allmusic guide to Rock back in 2003 and was surprised at just how many early rappers started out in hardcore bands.
Early rap and hardcore had a lot of overlap. In NYC, the first white fans of hip hop were punks, because they came from really similar communities and backgrounds. To this day, some of my favorite NYC hardcore bands have hip hop side projects, and that early overlap gets missed or ignored far too often.
And while not really punk or hardcore, Candiria are still Brooklyn legends. They were combining hardcore, metal, and hip hop before any nu metal bands were, and they were never corny about it. They'd also manage to throw some funk, jazz, and even acoustic music into the mix over the years.
Don't talk about something you don't understand. Punk has never cared about race. I bet she doesn't even support local punk bands.
True, i grew up in punk and race meant nothing, you were punk or you werent. Nothing else mattered. Race identity is not a thing in punk.
@Val 91 what do you know about being black and punk would you shut up. You're the race obsessed because you would rather not hear our side of the story
@@znedrow4 are u black?
@@tafkapi9840 punk wasnt totally right wing either . It expressed the ideology from whoever was playing it. you're just telling one side.. "rock against racism" was there just like "rock against communism" as a matter of fact Poly Styrene ,Don Letts and Pauline Black ( who were in this documentary )were apart of that RAR movment. As a matter of fact "rock against communism" was started to counter "counter Rock Against Racism ." Rock Against Racism" was first so stop your rediculous fairy tale revisionism. And although it was irresponsible The swastika was used as a shock mechanism by many punks back then, even black punk rock bands like pure hell wore them Also lots of outlaw gangs from NY did the same thing and most of them were non white. I'm glad they ditched that trash because nazi pigots used that as an excuse to infiltrate a lot of white youth in the UK. . punk rock was nihilistic but with nihilism always leaves and opened space for all kinds For an ideology no matter what . There were also more black punks than were mentioned in this video. And white journalist like lester bangs calling out racism in the scene as well. With his article "white noise supremacists " .punk is like any other subculture or any where where there is people , you have a variety of ideologies swimming about . You're acting like screw drivers view was the only view and that only punks were white. Punk wasnt totally anything but what it was - another outlet of a bunch of ideas .
@@oddiodiscoursemusicchannel6112 You're arguing against points I didnt even make. Not once did I say punk was "totally" right wing, or even predominantly so. And when I say "right wing" I obviously dont mean tory voting toffs with mohawks.
I brought up RAC and not RAR becuse RAC was pertinent to the context of the comment (that punks didnt care about race etc). There is just a misconception nowadays that punk was always some kind of anti-racist, pro-gay, pro-feminist movement that had monolithic ideals that would allign with a modern SJW, which is obviously FAR from the truth. As you said it was largely nihilistic, there was a lot of anger and hate in the music, it was a contrast to the idealism and utopianism that had come before in the late 60s.
So many angry whites in the comments lmao
What's a white
@@snow-puppetsofficial360 the figment of your imagination you claim is oppressing you everyday lol
@@avertthymortaleyes3460 What? Read my reply again. I don't think you got the context right. First, I'm white, so how can I be oppressed by my own skin? Second, I agree with you. The BLM movement is made up *predominantly white* leftists who claim that black people are oppressed. I'm not a leftist.
lol classic
Understandable, blacks would be mad if it was a hip hop documentary but only focused on white artists. Giving whites full credit for the movement.
Death didn't pioneer shit. No one ever got to hear them back then. Only in recent years, their music came to light and now hipsters gonna be like "oh yes, black proto punk, that was the shit back then don't you know?!" and all of a sudden, we need pointless documentaries like this... -.-
SiLeNCel2 A group of people's early efforts in the formation of something going unrecognized, only to later be given more prevelance and placed in higher esteem. Also known as... pioneers
Christopher Batson pretty sure the original comment is in reference to this video implying that bands like death shaped punk and have just been "white-washed" out of its history. Most importantly punk isn't about race but in this instance of the band only more recently being credited and appreciated in the timeline of punk then how can they have shaped the genre and pioneered sounds outside of a position of influence? It's great that African American influence on punk is being recognised but this video takes it a step beyond and creates a racial divide by playing off the relative obscurity of two punk bands (both incredible imo) compared with the status given to some white punk groups and claiming this is a racial divide/issue.
Punk has been influenced by people of all races and awareness of that is good, but I guess it takes a race baiting video like this to make that step and try and attribute it to a specific race/imply a group has been excluded from its history.
If you actually listen to punk you won't give two shits about what this woman's saying and you'd just enjoy it for what it is.
Mark Ward 1. Pioneer =/= influencer. Many "settlers" of America as well as pioneers of art, business, etc. didn't meet with initial material success or raise immediate interest. However, this doesn't negate their importance as early voices in a movement.
2. I appreciate the often visceral stance against bigotry that many in punk culture take; the push against Nazi skinheads appropriating punk signifiers being an exceptionally notable example. That doesn't mean punk is immune to the structures of bigoted thinking. Nothing is.
3. Race is in all things, all the time, everywhere. Or rather, it's found its tendrils, along with its negative thinking and power structure, in every aspect of culture. Enjoying something - in this case, Punk - for what it is is fine, but if you don't periodically examine the negative history permeating everything, you run the risk of supporting the ethos Punk stands against.
looking at the comment makes me realise why you do need to punch fascists.
Lets punch the Communists and Fascists
These so called “Fascist” you call aren't even Fascist I have never seen someone that's actually cool with Fascism. No one likes Fascism except for very few dumbasses.
@@niknak8299 Fascists don't think they or their beliefs are Fascist. Flowery words, dog whistles, and political influence are used by "educated" fascists and the morons tend to occupy Internet forums and publicly announce their vile rhetoric. So "i've never seen someone cool with fascism" doesn't make sense - because you have likely; their have been quite a few instances recently.
Nazi punks*
They never said Death pioneered punk they said Death were pioneers in punk which is very different.
Because if you think about it punk not only from one band but multiple bands to mold what we know punk is today
But they weren't even that. Pure Hell and Bad Brains? Definitely. Death? Nobody had even heard of those guys.
@@philmstud2k Nobody in the mainstream has ever heard of Pure Hell either, so...
do you agree with the title of the video though?
Death did not get discovered until just a few years ago. They were not an influence in punk at all.
Eric Schwartz Yes they were. They werent well known until a few years ago but early underground punk bands/kids knew of them and for sure impacted them in some way
Have to disagree. Not a single person or notable zine i ever knew that was in it from the beginning ever mentioned them at all. And i was a fanatical record/demo collector back in the 80s. I could jump on the phone right now with people i've known that were into it going back to the 70s and i'll guarantee that none heard of this band back then since they would have come up in discussion over all these years.
The only band they'll know by that name was the metal band that released a series of demos that pioneered death metal
+JP JPJP Although I do have to agree that the Floridian Death is definitely much more influential even though they were death metal, not punk. However Alice Cooper himself has sighted them (the Detroit Death) as an early mutual influence (he stated so on his radio show). He's plays their songs from time to time on his show. If they were on Alice Cooper's radar back in the day then I'm pretty sure they were an influential local band. I've seen it happen personally. I'm from a part of California that doesn't always get the respect it deserves musically yet many musicians come from here. Some of them are in big bands. Many of them were influenced by local bands that are huge in the area but nowhere else really. You'd be hard pressed to find anything written about most of these influential local bands in the "big" publications. Never the less they were hugely influential on many of the local musicians who have become "famous" musicians.
I hear you, but I don't think MC5 were truly influenced by Sun Ra, even if they say that. Sun Ra is way more complex and intellectual music while MC5 to me were just influenced by rock n roll music of the 50s. Stooges were influenced by Chicago blues for sure as documented by Iggy himself. Howlin Wolf pretty much influenced all of the garage rock growlers of the 60s if you ask me, especially Captain Beefheart.
Yeah agree overall. The "Band Called Death" documentary clearly explains that Death were not known at all and they only recorded demos for a label that vaulted them. The reporter needs to do their research. However, obviously black culture has heavy influence on punk regardless, you know since blacks created rock n roll. And the Ramones, the first "official" punk band said the whole purpose was to put the roll back into rock again. Punk was created out of the frustration of heavy metal bands that pretty much killed rock n' roll with their narcissistic 20 minute guitar solos etc. Bands like Zeppelin pretty much made the music about themselves and not the energy of the people. The Ramones, the Clash and Sex Pistols were on a mission to do the reverse.
D.H Peligro - Dead Kennedys, never gets any love?
thats what i was sayin too
Yes! One of the best early punk drummers!
Dead Kennedys were great, and one of the early examples of true punk, but they came about two years after the British explosion of the genre. The Sex Pistols had already broken up and other bands like the Damned and the Stooges were active for several years when the Kennedy's were formed back in 1978. They definitely took the torch and blazed up some new paths with it though.
They were early forerunners to the SoCal hardcore scene though.
Frijolero18 They're from San Francisco
Death is cool and all but no one cited them with anything until that documentary. They were not really that known at all. Just a local band. There were plenty of bands doing what they did waaaay before the early 1970s.
precisely
Nearly all of the dedicated fans of Punk that I have met are well aware of the multi-cultural history of Punk, so it feels a bit misleading to imply that there's an overall ignorance to Punk's history within its fanbase regarding the contributions from people of color. Folks outside of the scene don't typically know, but those who love the music usually are well enough aware, at least in my personal experience. Perhaps the wider world is different.
The historical evolution of Punk is deep and varied. The Punks of African descent in England and America definitely had a strong influence. They were one of many vectors helping to shape the sound and culture of Punk. I am ecstatic that bands like A Band Called Death are getting love again. The history of Punk is a treasure and it is worth preserving.
what history we grew up multiracial it is our culture
@@kikidulalinko5570yes, it's BLACK CULTURE
Why are so many people in the comment section in there own feelings. No one said black people created punk, they were just naming some black punk rock artists. I’m from the dirty south and I love 60s and 70s rock (All genres of those era), 80s thrash metal, 90s grunge and scattered other groups from that era. When people hear that they instantly are in AWE down here. That’s why I see nothing wrong with an Afro Punk festival cause down here if you’re black and not listening to Migos, Lil Wayne, Cardi B and other groups like that well people seem to instantly judge you.
I know right ..
Punk can't be explained in words. Either political, misfit, musical, nihilistic, rebellious, some of these things can be explained. Just make friends with punks, find the way to be punk, and you will know what punk is.
I'm a Hip Hop guy with an alternative soul. I hope no non racist white punks take this video offensively or weird. This video shows your community being leaders of acceptance, love and art. I just wanna say thank you for that. Even Hip Hop isn't exactly an accepting culture.
Many of us love hip hop too. I'm glad that's what you took from it. From the view point of someone who grew up in the west coast scene it is a bit painful to hear some of the stuff they are saying regarding punk not accepting Death as an influence or that that is somehow our fault as a community. They tried to sign to a major label who were trying to market to a mainstream audience, Not a punk audience. I think had they gone the DIY or punk label route or maybe even a black label we probably would have heard of them much sooner.
If they aren't racist, they won't have a problem with any of this.
@@ramonw9430check out the book
Everything but the burden
When Miles Davis said he wasn't making music for whites, he wasn't being "a bigot", he was making a point about how Black people exist, were important, and should be as much at the centre of society. Anyone who didn't get that point proved his point.
Wow! I had noooo idea and I was playing Boston music clubs in the late 70’s. When I moved to the UK in 1980 I saw black and white musicians playing all kinds of music together and soon I was jamming with people from many diverse cultures.
Just saw Poly -Styrene on the front and I was like Yeap, got to watch this!
Yes I saw Poly Styrene too!
Really disappointed Poly is not celebrated by this presenter .
Just window dressing - shameful !
Get your modern corporate bull out of here, punks didn’t care who you were cause they were all rejects… unless you were a neo. Also if you call yourself a punk, then you’re not cause you ain’t goin hard enough to not care
A note on the original band 'Death:' As much as I truly enjoy punk of the 70's, I love 70's R&B as well. A drove of phenomenal R&B music came out of the 70's era.
+MrMmnnggh: "¿Black Merda?" ¡You can go fv
Black Merda is the name of a very good R & B band, influenced by Jimi Hendrix. Do some research before you post misguided insults.
Below is a link to their excellent self - titled EP, released in 1970 on Chess Records.
ua-cam.com/video/pkELExkrvRs/v-deo.html
you didn't grow up where I grew up, if you didn't see many punks that weren't white, myself included.
+Alf Benny Yup. I'm half Mexican and I grew up in California. Plenty of other Latinos in the scene here. Some of the biggest bands out here are at least part Latino. Quite a few black punks as well.
Skyy Gamez Clearly you don't live in California.
Zeros were a great,pioneering Mexican punk band,now that you mention it.And Alice Armandariz(The Bags) spoke for herself.
Raymond Wright WORRRRRD brotha✊🏾
When I lived in Chicago I most of my alternative friends were Mexican. I did meet some Black metalheads, not many. Now back in rural Virginia you might be one the only alternative kids of your race in a predominantly White town. You're probably one of the few alternative kids White or not lol. It depends on where you live. At least that was my experience when I was younger.
If you watch this and believe what these people say then you are a fool.
especially when the annoucer listens to PINK
@DJ Bob-omb!Uh no. Black Americans created Gospel, Blues, Rhythm and Blues (and thereby Rock n Roll), Funk, Disco, and Rap (among other genres). However, to site mid 70s groups as creators of Punk doesn't wash. The Stooges came out in 1969. The New York Dolls self titled album was released in 1973, when Death was still a funk band called "RockFire Funk Express." Patty Smith released "Hey Joe" in 1974. The first track on the album "Politicians in my Eyes" was not released until late 1975.
That said, Death were most certainly early contributors to Punk and deserve to be credited as such.
This isn't about race; it's about the history of punk. How's this for credit? The ultimate foundation of all recorded Rock music is Mamie Smith, who recorded "Crazy Blues" on Tuesday, April 10, 1920.
DJ Bob-omb! I’m a black punk musician. This isn’t true.
@DJ Bob-omb! He's just doing that because of your prejudice.
Well said.
I'm quite sure "proto-punk" started in the 50s/60s. Screaming Lord Sutch, Los Saicos, The Kinks... All sound very much like punk and all older than 1973.
Glad you mentioned The Kinks. "You Really Got Me" is proto - punk and proto - metal.
exactly
The seeds
Finally, someone mentioned the Kinks. So many bands copied their style and low fidelity sounds but never gave any credit to them for that.
Black Merda were very similar to DEATH, but earlier- Detroit garage rock/'proto-punk', also all black. They started mid-60s IIRC. Personally, I think it's impossible to claim someone was "the first punk band", but that mid 60s detroit garage scene- MC5, Stooges, as well as bands like Black Merda, was pretty damn close.
End racism and segregation! Let's have an all afro-punk festival.. Makes perfect sense..
Love how they basically said nothing about Rock Against Racism in the U.K. too. They’re trying to make it sound like they’re talking about U.K. and us punk but then just talk about the us and used the U.K. examples to say that punk is political? Like, that’s the point of the genre?
@@Char10tti3 Almost like it's propaganda or something.
Most afropunk artists nowadays are r&b or something else. Only about 10% of afropunk artists are even punk
Punk is punk. It doesn't matter your race, yout nationality, only import that you hate the tirany and injustice, be yourself, and having fun in the pit
I hear you. I also understand that Beethoven and Chopin were black. Any truth in that?
Gravitating towards rock music as a young black Jamaican made me feel like an outsider... Had we known about these pioneers earlier, we wouldn't have felt so alien...
@aofmual I found a community out here that is into it. We are small, but consistent. Got bands, concerts, event and more. "Alternative Entertainment"
I've heard rumors that Pure Hell, despite releasing nothing but a 7" in the 70s/80s, became a major influence on the UK punk scene through touring back in the days... And holy hell, if their LP (released within the 10 years) doesn't sounds as good as any '82 Boston HC punk band!
How can you forget the influence of Don Letts on punk
Very influential and he was probably left out either because the journalist here didn't know enough about the history of punk to know who he was or because he didn't fit the narrative.
Whoever wrote this knows nothing of the subject.
Well by their own admission, they were heavily influenced by the MC5 which can really be considered the precursor to Punk movement as well. The MC5 were out in the 60's, laying down some fast paced tracks and crazy live shows that no one else were doing at that time. The Kinks were probably the earliest example of that kind of anti established music, but MC5 were way heavier and played faster.
They were well down the line in ‘68. The Kinks ‘64, Los Saicos ‘65, Sonics ‘65 and 13th Floor Elevators ‘66 were all earlier
@@misfit2022and who were they influenced by? It always boils down to blacks.
A few corrections: The term hardcore, applied to punk, was definitely FIRST used by Canada's DOA with their lp "Hardcore '81". 2nd, original drummer for Black Flag, Robo, was from (I think) Puerto Rico and was brown. He got deported. The Dead Kennedy's amazing drummer D.H. Peligro was black. DC was not "the center of hardcore", there was no "center of hardcore". In Texas there were a lot of Latino punks including members of the Offenders and I believe the guitarist for the original Dicks. There was nothing punk about Debbie Harry and Blondie except that they had started playing at CBGB's. I never considered Patty Smith a "punk" any more than I considered Springsteen (no, dis... love him) a "punk" and I still don't. Poly Styrene, on the other hand, big time punk. Still, a great little documentary. Thanks.
Robo was from Colombia and he was as white his band mates in the Misfits and Black Flag. Stop rewriting history to support your racist fantasies.
@@LigaFantasma "Racist fantasies"???? Isn't that just a little over-the-top? So I was wrong about Robo. He was a killer drummer either way. What difference does it make? Racist fantasies? I have none.
@@crimsonwolf9099 I agree with you but you only talking the US. By the early 80s punk was already getting underway everywhere on earth, except sub saharan africa, and that means most scenes were not "white" (not that anyone cared about that). To this day most punks are not white. The biggest punk scene in the world history is surely in west java
@@crimsonwolf9099 All he was saying is that ROBO is a white dude from Colombia because Hispanic can be of any race .
Wow this takes KANG posting to astronomical heights.
And you take being a whypt stupremashit to where its always been, in the toilet. I will challenge your sorry bass what do you even know about the black history of punk let alone rock n roll NOTHING . And you know nothing about what you saying . Come on pigot let's go l let's go
@@oddiodiscoursemusicchannel6112AHHHHha ahahahahahahahaha I checked out your channel, guess what you suck! LOL You shouldn't be qualified to listen to music when you cant even keep a simple 4/4 line
On A Bass …. !!!!!!!BwaaaahhhhhahahaHAHAHHAhahahahah
how sad of you. lol
I look forward to your documentary on how white people made hip hop,jazz,soul,blues,dancehall,rock,r&b,reggae,funk etc lmao
Why do you hate black people
She said no Latino recognition in punk? What about Ron Reyes?? What about that 60s Peru band Los Saicos? These people should make more research before they upload anything and bringing up race
Also Alan Vega. He was Puerto Rican and pioneered punk, electronic and no wave music in the early 70's in NYC
Los Crudos, Agnostic Front, Sick of it All.
Lack of Interest
ron is from y home town Puerto Rico. he was a mad singer love those early black flag songs with him on them same goies for keith.
Robo, the second Black Flag's drummer. He's Colombian
Music has no colour
Punk like hip hop is beautiful because it's message transcends race. It reminds the world its not our neighbors that are the enemy, it's the rich, elite, ans those that force control.
All music transcends race ……..and why do you hate Rich people ? Many of them worked their asses off for their Money…….
@@jnaz3thirty1 because most the people I have know that worked their asses off for money forgot about being good people or parents. Do you really think they work harder then some poor people? Maybe take some time and research how hard it is to navigate generational curses, lack of oppertunity, guidance, and direction. In punk and hip hop we deal with those things. And you either get it or you dont.
I love whoever put the captions, they are great xD
Fascinating history- thanks for sharing!
The best part is watching them interview Dead and the band themselves telling AJ+ they were never a punk band and were into hard rock. Not much was said after that. Amazing they left that bit into this video though without that extra footage in the video it'd be even more terrible than it already was.
“When you’re black,you’re punk all the time”. 😄👌🏻
lol not true
attaching to things one didn´t even grow up with is funny punk is individual and multiracial
So lame and untrue
What she meant is you’re (black people) outside of the margins... which is what punk is, outside the margins.
These videos are for clicks . It’s pretty obvious.. at least they are possibly turning people on to cool music .
@@kikidulalinko5570 I don't think that's what he meant by that. He meant that they are always different and excluded. Punk was diffrent and excluded back then.
I was taught about Bad Brains and Death from the beginning. Punk was never about color it was about not accepting color
Latin is not a shade and latinos aren’t brown. Afro Latinos are Brown and they are also blacks. they also invented all the awesome music and dance of latin culture so when you say black and brown….Your talking about different shades of blacks people
To say Death were influential is a bit of a stretch. They can't have been influential because no one heard them at the time. Not to disparage their stuff, which is incredible. But influential? Not really. There were no significant live shows to speak of.in the 70s. Any influence came later. Interesting piece though.
The blackification of everything!
STFU. What an idiotic argument about as band from four decades ago!!!
They weren’t “blackifying” anything. That wasn’t even a thing. And talking about them now its history.
@@ManifoldSky you're funny. You STFU.
@@somedaynow1128 soulless
🤡🤡🤡
Lol as if whites don’t whatificaction everything of their own.
In the early days of punk in the U.K., the Hammersmith Palais in London was a key venue for live shows. This was a club known more for reggae and in between bands, the only in house records to play were reggae discs. This turned a lot of punks on to reggae and of course, there were punk bands who started incorporating reggae elements into some of their output and even performing straight up covers. Especially noticeable with The Clash but also The Ruts and Stiff Little Fingers and it sure worked a treat. Proved an impetus too for the Two Tone movement though a cross pollination more with reggae's forerunner of ska and rocksteady.
Even Blitz did a couple of reggae influenced tracks
Americans are getting disgusting with the lies now
This is stunning stuff. I,m more of an alternative Metal fan but definitely appreciate what I call Real Punk and and Real Hardcore. No music genre should be exclusive in it's ethnic membership as music is for everyone and anyone who appreciates it, gets its messages or is directly affected by its it's messages and lyrics.
I love to see audiences at gigs really go off, not violent but really feeling the music, the empowerment and the cathartic therapy of letting the music take you and Metal, Punk, Hardcore, Industrial...whatever genre it is it's for ANYONE WHO GETS IT no matter the Ethnicity, Skin colour, Religion, Sexuality of the Musicians or Audience.
I wish this had included Suicidal Tendencies, which you probably like as much as I do. They straddled Punk, Hardcore, Metal, and Thrash like no one else, and with a lineup of Black and Latino members have massively influenced many, from Metal to NuMetal to Rap.
Pretty much everything in this video is false...
How?
You guys are missing out on the powerviolence band Soul Glo
Finna,Check em out. Thanks bruh
holy crap, thanks! so good
themetalcowboy6 they’re so sick.
Fun fact, Bobby was the basist in my local church choir in rural VT, USA. Took years of him complimenting my bad brains patch before I realized who he was... Nice bit, thanks for doing it.
Reggae was an influence on British punk. It wasn't through black punk bands though, it was through reggae
Stop rewriting history
How is black people talking about their experiences "re-writing" anything?
You people are so melodramatic, I swear.
@@freudianslippers6567 ua-cam.com/video/nOOSmyxNE3s/v-deo.html
@@mrfarkyhars9192 how about you use your own words instead, buddy. No one's rewriting history here
Now we colour coding punks too lol. Earth 2018.
steppa money Music was colour coded from the beginning in American culture go check the distinction they made at the beginning with Rock and RnB which were essentially the same thing. The best art often comes from struggling and black people in America for most history were struggling more than the average and had to get creative to survive.
Nobody is colour coding anything here. They are just stating that black people were also involved in punk/proto-punk.
NoneOfTheAbove why does that matter?
What are you even really talking about? We can't celebrate black musicians now? YOU are the one color coding here.
NoneOfTheAbove why does that matter? You idiot you are calling people black musicians. I think you dont even know what your hands are doing. Take your confused feelings somewhere else.
Why is she addressing this like it’s new information? There’s been enough documentaries and interviews long before this girl was alive
Blacks have been doing Rock since its very beginning. Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Jimi Hendrix have to be the three big ones as far as I'm concerned on the top of my head. There's probably a shit-ton of others I don't know about.
As for blacks in punk rock bands, I might also recommend also listening to: Whipping Boy (1/2 of the band, including the frontman, is black), Dag Nasty ("Dag with Shawn"-era; Shawn Brown, who is black, was the first frontman of this band), the Chicago punk band The Bollweevils (black frontman), the Dead Kennedys (black drummer) and the Plasmatics (black bassist; fun fact: same bassist would produce the "Animal Boy" album for the Ramones).
EDIT: Forgot about Lenny Kravitz (half black, half Jewish).
Yeah. None of it was ' Hidden '
*L M F A O*
Because ART is Universal. whatever is the genre, everbody can do as long as we love it
In theory, yes. But going to shows and playing music, people often look like I don't belong unless its a black artist.
@@starbrite526 Yeah its sad. Why does it matter what color you are.
GAVIN!!!!! I want my very black history of country and bluegrass music now!!!!!! The truth needs to be told!!!!!!
I was late to the party, didn’t get into punk until 1996 (16 yo) when I had a crush on a punk girl. Started with pioneers like the pistols and ramones, got into DK, misfits, descendents, Circle Jerk, Black flag, early Anti-Flag (die for your government), SubHumans, Exploited, NOFX, total chaos, Bad Religion, newer (at the time) punk like pennywise and offspring. Also discovered some Ska (bosstones, glow skulls, the specials, goldfinger)
Later in my mid 20s I discovered X ray specs, the germs, Minor Threat.
In my 30s I discovered indie rock like the Pixies.
Before I discovered punk I was listening to rap, metal, crossover bands like Korn and RATM, as well as grunge, but I like pretty much all genres.
I love 80s stuff like Depeche Mode, The Cure as well.
But learning about bands like Death and Bad Brains, as well as Fishbone it’s clear I’m still learning and I enjoy learning about old bands too
Fishbone came after the punk wave in the early 90’s. and therefore could not influence a past wave.
If you talk Blues or Rock'n'Roll or Rap/Hip Hop I am all on your side. But the arguments in this video just don't hold up. The Bad Brains are very influential for Hardcore (and everyone knows that and acknowledges that). But Death starting the Punk movement? Cut me some slack. Of course you have to acknowledge that the music industry has racist structures and it was harder for black bands to get into certain markets. But what does that contribute to the argument that Punk was "pioneered" by a black community.
Meh, Black Flag and the Germs were more influential I think but you hit everything else on the spot
I'll take "not understanding the English language" for $500, Alex
No but the sound spinned off of black sounds for the most part
It also highlights punk went the DIY route. Punk had no chance for mainstream radio at the time and being black wasn't going to help them. Most punks knew this and did everything on their own or through very small mostly DIY punk labels. Had they gone that route we would have been talking about them a lot sooner. But it never happened. That doesn't make it punks fault. Punk was the underdog from the gate.
Thank you for mentioning Pure Hell, being from Philly I grew up on them but they need the exposure that so many other bands have gotten over the years. If you don't know them, you are missing out.
Other pioneers: Ivan Julian of Voidoids and DH Peligro of DK. Screamin Jay Hawkins is the original horror punk (and horror bluesman). The whole two tone scene. 24-7 Spyz played all genres. Of course Little Richard, Chuck Berry, and Bi Diddley started it all. Chuck Berry once reviewed a bunch of punk records, from the Pistols and Ramones to Wire, and he was all like “yup, these guys are doing my shit, but what’s with those vocals” lol. Bo Diddley was on the first US tour by the Clash (who also played with the likes if Bad Brains and Grandmaster Flash). Jamaican Brit Don Letts played with Mick Jones of the Clash in BAD, directed 2 punk documentaries, and influenced Bob Marley to write Punky Reggae Party, which name dropped the Pistols, Clash, Jam, and the Damned.
Punk is Punk and attitude is attitude and neither of these two things has anything to do with race, gender, politics, (maybe) or religion. Its music made to be heard just like any other form of music people enjoy. Punk is about being yourself and having a free mind of your own with an attitude that comes with it and things like fashion do not matter unless you give it a reason to matter, social media just like AJ+ and the people who work for them and follow them don't understand that and they try to make Punk into their own image to suit their personal ideologies. Punk is for all types of people no matter who you are.
MC5 started in 1964.
The Velvet Underground started in 1964.
The Stooges started in 1967
The New York Dolls Started in 1971.
Death didn’t come out until 1971.
You left out that info. and the fact that Punk’s roots were more derived from New York than London.
Punk and Metal have always been welcoming to the disenfranchised, race notwithstanding.
You’re literally taking one of the last bastions for commonality between people of the struggling class and making it about race.
I’ve always considered punk and hip-hop kin. They came from the same places and brought people together. The influence is still existent today.
This video is the extent of Fox News for the regressive left.
Never compare punk to metal. They are extremely different.
Metal is not punk it's totally different
Are you stupid
Death isn't even punk
Exactly what I was thinking!!
Fantastic short. Thank you for this. My wife is currently curating a show about a Black South African photographer who has turned his lens on the SOWETO punk and skateboard movement. I am a punk from way back and have always loved punk from different parts of the world. Keep it up.
It's arguable that blacks in the united states essentially invented modern music. Jazz, blues, rock and roll, hip-hop, punk...all had pioneers from black communities that don't get enough credit or at least for damn sure didn't profit in proportion to their influence.
No mention of Pure Hell whatsoever. A band that pre dates Bad Brains and was not an obscure record find like Death was.
None of these UA-camrs seem to know their stuff but still want to make stupid videos like these anyway for clout.
the discussion of race in punk rock is a bit of a moot point. Punk rock is all inclusive just by nature. if you thought punk rock was only for suburban white kids then i guess you just arent that familiar with the culture.
first rule of Punk: There are no rules.
carry on.
Poly Styrene is literally my personal idol. I'm obsessed with her.
I LOVED growing up in our multiracial City when she was around
Can somebody inform this lady that Jimmy Hendrix was black? Rock music has never been about racism.
Playing identity politics isn't punk.
Why not just punk rock? Why does it have to be a black or white thing, that the media like yourself has created.
Death: "We're not a punk band, we're rock and roll band"
AJ+: "Death is legendary black punk band"
Lol
White British punk bands used reggae influences in their music because black punk bands? I love how they quickly brushed over that without explaining anything about the mass migration of Jamaicans to the UK in the 60-70s and the popularity of trojan records in the UK in the late 1960s
Death came from the Detroit scene which was very important for garage rock (or proto-punk as it is named in hindsight): MC5, The Stooges and Alice Cooper (not so much proto-punk, but still influential) all came from Detroit. And besides them, even the Detroit funk band Funkadelic was playing rock songs in this era, check out Funkadelic's Super Stupid or Alice in My Fantasies for example.
3:50 I knew "punk" was a black slang for some time, especially when I worked with a lot of black older folks at work. Punk was just as how he described it and how my coworkers defined it.
Gatekeeping really has affected how music is perceived and even how a music's origin is remembered.
I thought punk simply was another word for wuss. And the word was used towards this music aesthetic to reclaim the social ostracization. Also wouldn't call it slang. It's just another word to me
No one was "gatekeeping" punk. Where do you people get these ideas from?
Total propaganda. No one who listens to Punk music cares about the color of the band, only if the music is great.
Well shit boys I guess we ripped off the black man again.
Death is a rock band. Dead brains is a hardcore band. Also identity politics is not punk.
based
Whole Wheat Bread, At the Drive In, TV on the Radio
Christopher Lee at the drive-in is hispanic. Tv on the radio is indie.
You call Tv on the Radio punk? I never thought of them as such. Doesn't matter though. Just a label. Great band.
@@liquidswords0335 Being Hispanic doesn't mean it's not punk.
Bad Brains were also Rastafarians
MasterAD 2247 it's Rasta.
Zikhona Kwela Same thing but yea
You seen the documentary “finding Jospeh I” about the singer.
It’s crazy he wanted to move into reggae immediately after the first album and they had to keep convincing him punk was better. Also because rastas are all about possivitvity his Rasta friends wanted the band to change its name to good brains but luckily they had the sense to say no
Death maybe would have been pioneers if people actually heard thier music. They were basically dug out of a dust bin and rediscovered. Meaning no one had really heard of them at all during the time when punk was starting to come into it's own. It was only in the early 2000 that a wider audience had heard them. You cant say someone or something was inspired or originated from something they were unaware of. If a tree falls in the woods and nobodys there, does it make a noise?
The music got around differently back then, through shows, local distribution, travelling and word of mouth. If you were a musician or someone with particular interest in something, you could be influenced by the smallest, nobody ever. I was signed up to a mail-order music catalog that distributed a zine back in the 80's and learned about a lot of artists only musicians, music nerds or people in any particular place/location knew about - none of my friends or people in my area might have known about a particular artist, but other people did, including anyone who went out of their way to keep on top of this genre of music. Also, if you were a DJ, especially of a local or college radio station that occupied a channel waaaaay down the far end of the radio dial, because these bands couldn't get major radio stations to play their music, they would find out who you were and send you their records, thus getting aired for the consumers of that type of music or whoever was able to pick up the signal and tune in, no matter how niche or small the audience was. These were the typical ways punk (and other forms of underground music) got around. In other words, just because you didn't know bout it doesn't mean that no one else knew, especially if they were in the movement themselves.
Also, if you knew who Siouxsie and the Banshees were back in their punk days, you were special, because they were very niche and unknown where I lived in the States at that time until they slowly started to break through in their "goth" or "post-punk" years while most punks were into the Sex Pistols and Ramones. So, not that different.
Yes it does make noise you just can't hear it cuz your not there.
@@alfiex6667 Exactly. In this case nobody was there to hear the tree fall so how could they have been influential?
Tell that to the Dead Boys in CLE who were aware of and respected Death.