Gideon is a true hero that continues to speak truth to power. The Israelis that stand up against Netanyahu’s racist government deserve our deep admiration.
Hamas don't care.Most of October 7 victims were kibutzim peace Activists. They had lists and name of every family ,Intel from Gazan that worked [ Till October 7]. The Israeli left crashed because of Terror. Btw,Gideon is the minority of RADICAL left not hearing Hamas promises to repeat October 7.
truth only because he is openly call for the elimination of Israel. That's the type of Jews you tolerate. Jews that will help you to eliminate Israel the only obstacle from another Holocaust. If you only tolerate passive Jews why your direct ancestors exterminated six millions of them?
Gideon is a moral narcissist. He demands what he wants and he doesn't care about the consequences of implementing his ideas. He places all the onus on Israel and infantilizes the Palestinians.
Destiny argues there is no aparthied, describes the situation as aparthied and says no way aparthied will end until territorial dispute is solved. What kind of argument is this.
I take it like how doctors approach a diagnosis: you look at the symptoms a patient presents and rule out potential conditions until you find the best match. In this case, I think Destiny is saying that the "symptoms" can be explained by territorial disputes, so it shouldn't be "diagnosed" as apartheid. If those territorial disputes are resolved and it turns out that within Israel, citizens have unequal rights based on race or similar factors, then I think Destiny would probably call it apartheid. Until then it's premature to say and not particularly helpful
One that only exists in your head. That's not what he said. Apartheid is about race and racial dominance. In Israel there are Jews of all races, including tens of thousands of black Ethiopian Jews, with full rights. The separation of people is based on citizenship, not race.
@@johannarivers57 That is a grotesque inversion of reality. Aparyhied has a definition and it is own x tics. What is described in the debate are the total qualities of aparthied. You may argue that was caused by territorial dispute such that "Israel" is determined to supress the people it occupies so they will never raise up to challenge them. Destiny presents the qualities of aparthied but somehow says it is not aparthied and then claims the aparthied will end after territorial dispute is solved. It is not that we pretend we do not know the symptoms of aparthied. If you describe a situation, you and I can easily say it is aparthied and that is exactly what is happening in "Israel."
38:45 Destiny is so obsessed with his “facts” (he’s wrong on most of his historical points) he can’t understand what Gideon is saying. A national recognition in behalf of the Israeli government of their brutal mistreatment of Palestinians is step ONE. No peace agreement can be made without an entire re-orienting of Israeli society, and it must be done BEFORE peace talks. Peace talks will NEVER work in a dynamic where the occupier sees you as sub-human animals and implants that into its population. National recognition and apology for the Nakba was a key request on behalf of the PLO during their negotiations with Israel. Israel refused. There is no peace to be had with a force that doesn’t recognize the mass ethnic cleansing it did to steal the land it’s on.
Why is this debate even happening? Gideon is a celebrated, experienced journalist that's lived in Israel and has known the conflict all his life. Destiny is a debate lord that's never left his basement. What a joke.
You're making a presupposition-al claim I think irrespective of your position on the conflict, you should appreciate this discussion happening. Destiny, regardless of what you think of him, is somebody who has rigorously educated himself on the topic at hand(even going as far as visiting Israel) and has found himself to be mostly in favor of Israel. He is now talking to somebody who clearly also has a deep and life lived experience in the same topic, to then have them talk about this issue should only satisfy your needs to seek truth, no matter who is correct. There are people on Destiny's side who have equal and if not more experience on the topic who also agree with him, and vice versa, you need to let go of your ideological disposition and actually approach this conversation from a substantive basis instead of just writing off a discussion.
Watching destiny lose literally every back and forth on this issue is very gratifying. He is also clearly slowly and stubbornly changing his view because despite his intransigence, he seems to be slowly digesting the reality. He has now ceded all moral foundations and is desperately clinging to pragmatism. I predict that in two years he will be effectively pro Palestinian because that is the only logical conclusion a fair minded person learning about these issues can reach.
15:21 The concept that the Palestinians and their leaders are poor, incompetent and have no responsibility is an arrogant superior concept that underestimates the ability and capacity of the Palestinians. 29:49 So why didn't Mahmoud Abbas sit down for negotiations? 34:46 And once again the superior perception of the Palestinians as lacking ability and responsibility. This concept only encourages the culture of victims and intransigence and the ability to negotiate for the future of the Palestinians. Until the Palestinians take responsibility for themselves under brave leadership nothing will change. Gideon claims that they "tried diplomacy" - the Palestinians have never compromised on anything, their approach to diplomacy is give us all our demands or we will continue with violence. This is not diplomacy, this is extortion by violence, or in other words, terrorism. Gideon is right about one thing, this approach will get you nowhere.
Too bad you aren't debating. Destiny is ok. Nothing special. These debates, overall, don't compare to when Buckley, Vidal, Baldwin, Mailer, and Chomsky used to go at it. Those were great debates.
It doesn't merely underestimate Israel opposition, it also ignores the fact that Iran, Russian, China and North Korea, amongst other governments fund, train and arm the so called "resistance." These aren't farmers running around in sandals throwing rocks. They are state level military forces.
@@Jannfndnanakid Palastinians are poor, sure. But their leaders are multi-milioners that live in Qutar funded villas or are hosted by the IRGC in mansions
This debate is hilarious, because Destiny has chided Arab nations as hostile and racist not allowing Jews to migrate to Israel, but then says a Jewish state can be democratic for not allowing Arabs to migrate to Israel lmfao
Democracy just means people choose through voting. If Israel does not let Arabs in, that doesn’t mean Israelis can’t vote. Analogously, America isn’t undemocratic for not letting Canadians vote.
Timeline: 00:00 - Introductions 09:35 - Is Israel an Apartheid State? 19:56 - Are there problems with a Jewish state? 30:00 - The Failed Peace Process 36:37 - What is the Solution? 40:28 - One State vs Two State Solution
This is absurd. The Jew haters in the region should be grateful they were not treated the same as those conquered by expansionist Islam. The Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in WW1 and lost. But Jew haters in the region think they had the right to curtail Jewish immigration? And attack over and over? It's tragic that people taking Gideon seriously will get the impression that Jews are just supremacists mistreating another ethnic group. What does he want? Statehood for Palestinians under whose leadership? Has he ever looked at the Quran or the Hadiths? It's all about fighting jews. It's all about conquering non-muslims. Statehood for Palestine will not lead to self-determination for its people. The enemies of Israel will exert control over any Palestinian state and use it to attack Israel from the south. That's exactly what Iran does with Hezbollah in the north. And it's what Iran has been doing with Hamas in the south. Isn't it obvious? The Islamic "ummah" has no interest in Palestinian sovereignty. They want one Islamic nation. The root of the problem is that Israel is getting attacked by hateful morons. That doesn't mean there are no innocent people in Gaza and the West bank, obviously. They are victimized as much as anyone else. But it's absurd to demand that the world give control to the people who we want to use that region as a place from which to attack israel.
@@noahghost4476 wow what a hate filled rant. I just have one question. The Ottoman Empire gave Jews the right purchase land in 1836. Since you believe the Jewish state treats Palestinians so good relative to how Jews in Arab countries were treated, why can’t Palestinians, even Palestinians-Israeli citizens not buy land anywhere they please? Isn’t this a right the Ottomans gave the Jews?
@@shaheerislam1059 In fact, until 1867, only citizens of the Ottoman Empire could purchase land in the Land of Israel. It was only after a series of bilateral agreements between the Sublime Gate and the European powers that the ban on the purchase of land and the construction of houses by foreign subjects was lifted, and since then purchases have increased, both by Jews and Arabs.
@@mikitoledano6530 I see no problem with the Ottoman Empire not want to sell Jerusalem. I don’t have a problem with Jews of Israel not wanting to sell their holy sites either. I’m just pointing out the lie the Israelis treat Palestinians better than Arabs treated Jews. Arabs treated Jews better from 1836 until WW1. Jews kept trying to buy Jerusalem. Btw just curious, do you think the Admission Committees Law (2011) which let Israeli-Jews discriminate on who can purchase land based on race a better or worse policy than the Ottoman’s letting Jews purchase land from 1860s
@@shaheerislam1059 Just reading your arguments reveals your bias, but one can understand that it is difficult to be objective, it requires effort especially when you have a personal or emotional involvement, "When a Jew buys a house, it is the empire that sells Jerusalem" 1. Nothing in my speech dealt with Israelis' relations with Palestinians or vice versa. 2. It is true that the treatment of the Jews under the rule of Islam changed in different periods that matched the spirit of the Sultan, but they were always considered second-class subjects and suffered harassment from the Muslim subjects mainly after bloodshed was spread. 3. It is true that the situation of the Jews improved after the conquest of Israel by the Egyptians (1831-1841). Some historical facts: during this period, a great demographic change also occurred due to the migration of thousands of Egyptians who settled in cities and villages in the territories that are now Israel. In 1841, the Ottoman government, with the help of the European powers, managed to expel the Egyptians and in return for their help, the empire signed the capitulation agreements that allowed Jews and Christians to purchase land as well as sanitary and economic development (the economic prosperity led to the immigration of Arabs from all over the Middle East since there were no borders). 4. Admission Committees Law (2011) does not deal with discrimination for buying land between Jews and Arabs or race. The law in question applies to Israeli Jews and Arabs alike and deals with a family acceptance committee for small communal villages. And again I emphasize that an Israeli Jewish family will also have to go through an acceptance committee in order to live in a community village that meets the categories stipulated by law. What do I think about it? It is up to each person to decide if it is appropriate for them to go through this process in order to become a member of the community. One last thing, it seems that many people do not understand that the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens of Israel but citizens of the self-governing Palestinian Authority. The Arabs of Israel (those who define themselves as Palestinians and those who do not) are citizens of Israel, they are citizens with equal rights except for the military conscription law which does not apply to them but some of them choose to volunteer for service.
ye the one who playing the video game treats palestinains as adults while the one who "lives" in it treats like them like a 5 year old child with no self control
It's comical to see these comments. People think an Israeli who's spent his whole life living and covering this conflict somehow knows nothing. Meanwhile, Destiny uses a two week trip and Wikipedia as his main qualification as some sort of expert on this topic. Honestly, it shows the low level of idiocy amongst his fans and the current Israeli hasbara machine.
27:39 - "Who do you think would have more security, Palestinians in Israel, or Israeli in Palestine" - 1. Gaza is being turned into a pile of rubble, there's no government, no services, and the only security forces are shooting Palestinian kids in the head. In both Israel proper and Gaza and West Bank, Palestinians are way less safe, than Israeli are. 2. The settlers don't seem to mind the terrible danger - they just keep taking land. 3. Palestinian land is being turned into a collection of tiny islands - Israeli don't give a f. about being 'unsafe', if they go to those tiny bantustans, because they never need to go there, unless their job involves driving a tank. Destiny's arguments fcnk just plain suck.
There is a government. It’s just shit at its job and lost a war it started when it violated its neighbors sovereignty and kidnapped her citizens. People aren’t settling Gaza, they settle the West Bank. Settlers do care about the safety. That’s why they bring guns with them.
yea you really need to figure out the sound quality in the future. I'm 20 minutes in and I have to stop myself from closing the video because how hard it is to listen to.
As a destiny viewer i eas very impressed with the quality of the moderator and other guest. Feels like they were talking to each other and not past each other.
15:20 this is why I don't like Gideon Levy, Destiny is trying to have a nuanced discussion about the issues on each side and how the conflict could realistically be solved, and Gideon wants to reduce it all to a black-and-white simple-minded vision that is not productive at all, not to mention that he's completely ignoring the fact that Israel dismantled all the settlements in Gaza, didn't build a single settlement when they occupied south Lebanon for 18 years and did make some decent peace offers to the Palestinians in the 2000s, which were rejected.
Gideo Levy sounds like he is not living in the same reality as anyone else, like Qanon level ukraine biolabs level insane when he says that Israel will build settlements in Lebanon in a year. It is just unhinged.
Yeah but taking the conflict into the abstract world is a big mistake. Gideon is going straight to the point that there is major injustice. One has to look at the truth on the ground.
Define "decent". West Bank settlements started before and grew during the 2000s. It is deceitful to claim you're giving something back as a gift when you took it in the first place, all the while stealing more on the side. The Lebanon occupation was through the SLA which was Lebanese, and supervised by the UN, that's why there's outposts now being bombed by Israel itself. Finally, Israel holds all the cards to make peace, because of daddy US. They can stop the slaughter right now but they wont because you elected this weird kind neo-nazi jews to government.
I hear destiny trying to concede hard on a lot of Israel wrong doing. In fact Destiny conceded too much Gideon like most Palestinians and supporters think they are ultimate victims and have no blame. They can’t see their actions have cost the problem to get bigger
At this point I think pride is the biggest barrier and its gotten too big to fail. They feel like they have to come out on top or nothing, but negotiations are about compromise. Its never going to be realistic to command the more powerful side not only to throw up their hands and give up the fight but lay down and let them have the country without any concessions even for just their safety... like they'd say "ok, i guess we are bastards. let us save you the trouble of killing us, we owe you that much. enjoy!" they actually think the online leftist shame machine will do its job here lol.
@@billcarson818 The comments clearly said "and supporters." This person knows Gideon is Israeli, dollars to donuts. It's not like his name isn't the most Israeli name on earth. He represents the overwhelming minority of Israelis amigo. And You forgot Norman Finklefuhrer. Even in WW2, we had to deal with Kappos. Only now, we aren't able to deal with them the same way we did back then. Jews will always fall on every point of the spectrum. That is why the world wants us dead and gone. We disagree with everything, even with ourselves. That is what being Jewish is all about. But unlike Muslims, who murder each other in the millions, and nobody seems to care, Jews don't murder other Jews for disagreeing. That is the sad part about these Jews who advocate on behalf of those who wish us dead. They just aren't that smart. Hamas would rip their hearts out if given the chance.
@@billcarson818Ilhan Pape is the most radical contrarian historian that exists. His work has been continually debunked and his ethnic cleansing book provides the most one sided telling of history. Rashid Khalidi, who is actually Palestinian, is far less one sided than Ilhan Pape and provides far more Palestinian criticism in his work despite the fact that he is Palestinian.
In fairness Gideon was born in Israel and lives outside Tel-Aviv,child of European Refugees and has spent time reporting from Palestine so I'd concede on certain points as well if I've limited knowledge of living in Israel.
Here’s my two cents, I’m an Israeli who for the most part disagrees with Bibi’s stance in politics, I think he caves in to religious right wing parties to have a strong enough coalition to stay in power, which is all he really cares about. But there has become somewhat of a leftie cult centered around hating on every move the government makes while he’s in power. People like Gideon have a lot to gain from Bibi losing power making his stance incredibly biased. He claims to be pro 2 state solution, but then tells a story about how heartbreaking a Jewish Tel Aviv is? Tel Aviv has been around long before Israel was founded and was supposed to be part of the Jewish state in the partition plan Gideon supposedly supported.
Would also like to mention how much Gideon is downplaying the amount of Israelis that would agree to a two state solution. He lives in this kind of “elite leftie” bubble that thinks the Israeli middle class is too barbaric to want to co exist with Arabs when in reality that same middle class that that might typically seem a bit more right wing (though that’s mostly a stereotype) are usually the ones that work more closely with Arabs (even Palestinians) and interact and make friends with them daily.
Curious your takes on Destiny's understanding. He'd probably agree with your politics pretty nicely, though he doesn't care about them much. He's highly knowledgeable on your history and conflicts, but from an American outsider perspective. He has no emotional attachment to Israel whatsoever, though he has been there for a considerable visit and had substantial conversations with many remarkably high-profile Israelis. Personally I think Gideon Levy is a grifter who got cathartically blown out in this debate, but as an American it's also not my battle either.
In essence, Israel functions as an apartheid state, rooted in systemic racism. From the beginning, early Zionist settlers had no intention of coexisting peacefully with the Palestinian population, a stance that has largely persisted to this day.
This is a debate between a 3rd grader and a professor. Gideon is thinking in terms of simplistic binary moral absolutes and Destiny has a nuanced and deep intellectuality honest understanding of the situation.
moral absolutes are the highest ideology we inherited from ancient thinkers, if you're gonna talk as if they're some useless things, you don't belong here, go back to the dark ages or something
this earth won't know peace until the generational brainwashing cults disappear, otherwise they're destined to cause man made disasters as we see it happening right now
And yet the guy that goes by a 3rd-grader nickname has to contradict himself so obviously. I only watched about 20 minutes of the discussion, but I can clearly see how that guy avoids acknowledging simple stated facts in their true face. Just as an example, Gideon Levy brings up the settlements as a proof that Israel has no intention of solving the issue in any way that can be peacefully acceptable, and then the other guy goes into the typical mental gymnastics in order to support his thesis claiming that both sides have similar aggressive atittudes, even though a few minutes earlier he had to agree that the situation there is maybe not typically an apartheid but practically it is such. I stopped watching because I have little patience with insincerity at the moment, even though this guy is definitely more sincere compared to so many others that are displayed on media shows globally.
@@angeliskarlos6395 The existance of settlements isn't dispositive about some fundamental and perpetual nature of the state of israel. Many of the settlements themselves even are considered illegal by israeli law.
I love Gideon Levy so much. I think this was a really worthwhile conversation. Thank you for trying to push Destiny into engaging in empathy. I noticed how he preferred to discuss from a detached position. I don't see how a pragmatic solution is possible if there is no empathy towards the people you're oppressing. Oppression requires detachment and dehumanisation. This is why we have to really push for empathy. Thank you, Gideon ❤
That's what happens when you own the winning argument but lack the powerful representation to implement justice, and the other side is coping HARD from it's lofty position of western favoritism. Lol
Once the ICC has him in the courtroom then perhaps many questions would ll be answered without the interference of claiming injustice and the usual ace card call the Holocaust which is no longer working as a defense anymore
You seem to be mistaking Gideon with destiny. Destiny like almost immediately caved on his initial position that it’s not apartheid, changing his view to “the apartheid is temporary.” Do you feel like destiny didn’t really answer the question of whether there is apartheid?
Lol..."even if theyre the victim...the rape victim...i dont think its fair to give them zero agency, even if its 1% they derseve some blame, right"? 100% yes!!! Lets blame the rape victim 😂😂😂👨🍳💋
“40,000 Palestinians have been killed and you think it makes sense to talk about Israeli security?” Destiny: yes! 😃 This is why that region will never have peace. The Palestinians have had to deal with these horrible people for 80 years now and they’re just tired of it. That’s why oct7 happened
Very interesting convo, and very wholesome, especially toward the end. Obviously if the audio was better it would've been more accessible, but you moderated very well. You talked when the debate was dry and you let them talk when it was interesting. The only problem is that I'm not sure if this format works for people who are too far apart politically. Destiny and Gideon seem relatively close to each other in terms of politics; Destiny is a very pro-Palestinian pro-Israel person and Gideon is an Israeli pro-Palestine person, so they will align on a lot, and where they disagree they can disagree with respect. But the Israel/Palestine debate in general is filled with genuine hatred. Just something to consider
35:25 Gideon, earlier, made the argument that Palestinians need to be looked at as equals and not these Evil people, while 10 min later saying Israel ppl are not equal to Palestinians, they are the evil ppl😂. The Hypocrisy is astonishing
Enjoyable conversation. Another great example how close both positions actually are when the conversation happens in a respectful manner. Especially when Gideon pointed out that he thought similar to Steven when he was younger, but apparently now tries to tackle the problem from a different "layer", I assume giving the hopelessness of the situation. And he also seemed genuine about it. Overall this just fuels my disdain for the radical commentators and actual propagandists on either side.
The offer that was presented to the owners of the land was as follows: Someone decided to bring a family with two children who were persecuted thousands of kilometers away from your home to live with you in your home, which you generously accepted to host them. As the days passed, this family liked your home, which was home to 10 people! So the one who sent this family decided to divide your home unfairly, so that the family of 10 people would get less than half the house, while the family of 4 people would get more than half!! So your decision was to reject this offer, not because the division was unfair, but because the offer was basically an April Fool's joke!!! How could any sane person give up even one inch of his home!! All the countries that were under the British mandate struggled to liberate their homelands. Why is this struggle called terrorism when it is carried out by the owner of the land in 2025, knowing that we have become more civilized and humane and we claim that the law of the jungle no longer exists!!!
podcasters and broadcasters in general, really need to understand audio, but most of them do not. This discussion is ruined because one participant is using a horrible laptop microphone. This is made even worse because this person has a fairly thick accent. So one person in the discussion is audibly dominant and the other is a muffled mess. I realize this is now common place but it really needs to stop. Insist that your guests have decent microphones and send them one if they don't have one.
When I saw that Gideon Levy was one of the debaters, I honestly figured that he'd only make emotional/bad arguments and that it would essentially be a waste of time....and then I watched the video and was proven right. Truly one of the worst debaters from the Pro-Palestinian side that I've ever seen.
Gideon isn't a debater and generally Israelis are not good at debates. I used to read his opinion column years ago and stopped because he became too left wing crazy for my taste, it became too difficult to read... Gideon, unlike most Pro Palestinian speakers, is also very Israeli and originally a Zionist. And I believe he prefers a two state solution if he felt that's possible just like he said in this video. I think what Gideon is trying to say here, is that we should forget the history, and just focus on the future pragmatically. And that's a sensible thing to do if we want to fix it, which I believe he does. And pragmatically there are three alternatives, all implementable by unilaterally by Israel, if we really wanted to: 1. Annexation and give Palestinians equal civic rights - leading to a one democratic state and perhaps later on to civil war or reconciliation. 2. Annexation without civic right, leading to Apartheid and probably boycott of Israel and its demise. This is actually the preference of the most right wing parties in Israel, although they believe there's a way to drive the Palestinians out of the territory somehow... 3. Unilateral withdrawl of the west bank, disassembly of all small settlements, and call to the PA to declare a state and later come to the negotiation table to agree land swaps for the major settlements that cannot be undone. Israel would still secure all borders and air space in the foreseeable future and might even maintain the ability to enter the WB with troops if necessary. This is more or less the only option that leaves a Jewish Zionist sustainable Israel, keeps it democratic, and secures the West's support for Israel. Gideon's frustration which I share, is that Israel should have done it in 1967 and at any point since but never even entertained the idea seriously, so why would that happen now? There is of course the fantasy dream of everyone coming to the negotiation table and striking a peace deal and living happily ever after, but the Palestinians will never dismiss the Right of Return...
@@itamarchen1no Gideon specfically doesn’t want to forget the past because he talks about a deal having justice, which includes the right of return. It is what it is, right now it’s hard to make a deal
@@miguelsanchez2230 There will never be a Right of Return into Israel proper. The Palestinians will be able to return into their territory. I don't think people around the world appreciate it, but Israel / Palestine is a very small area, that can be driven across in under 20 minutes or so. So when I'm saying the Palestinians will have to return into the Palestinian territory, it means they can practially live just a few kilometers from wherever their family has originally lived before 1948. The expectation that they each can go back to exactly the same village and exactly the same land as existed in 1948 is unrealistic and childish. Reality moved on, that is no longer possible, these villages do not exist, in their places today there are often cities with tens of thousands of people and often more.
@@itamarchen1 yea i agree with ya but we’re not the ones to convince haha they have to come to realize it or just keep fighting forever, it is what it is
Destiny is outright lying in some of his arguments, being intellectually dishonest in most and he just doesn't know the history to any significant degree. You can hear it in how he just throws out buzz words and names without any real detail
@@TehGrandVizier I didn't interpret this as a "what about" statement, I view it as an argument that since the neighbors are not held to those standards, we can't expect Israel to fully live up to them". In any case, destiny might have had a few such statements but the fact that you answered my observation about "What about" statements with a "What about" statement just doubles my despair
@@oreltahary1547we treat Israel as a Western democracy. They want to be called a western democracy. We FUND them as a Western democracy. If they want to be considered an ethno-state like Saudi Arabia or whatever then say it, ffs. How do we treat people who say that "America is a Christian nation"? We call them right wing fascists. Imagine if America started taking rights away from non-christian Americans. We'd have a problem with that. In the same way if Israel wants to be a Jewish ethno-state, let them be, and let's end the charade that they are a democracy. And for god's sake let them fund their own fascistic wars
37:08 Gideon: "Israel has to learn they can't do whatever it wants to do because its stronger" Please someone smack this man with a history book. Especially of Arab empires. Thats EXACTLY how it is.😂
I don't understand how Gideo Levy can not realize how insane he sounds when he says that Israel will be build settlements in Lebanon. Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years and didn't build settlements there, and no one has any thoughts of actually building settlements in Lebanon now. More than anything else, this shows me how discontented Gideon Levy is with reality.
I have to wonder whether he has been made an offer. He went from having no interest in this issue to endlessy debating of which you can find plenty of evidence where he says he lacks knowledge on the topic. Its no secret Israel went into overdrive asking influencers to back their side in exchange for money.
@@scytheoflife1947he very obviously has; the guy is a grifter who has stopped talking about israel now that the election is coming up and he clearly only cares about being able to make money from being contrarian
Destiny is a denialist of note He pretends to see the injustices but is comfortable with the sufferings of Palestinians 🙆🏿♂️
3 місяці тому+25
The classic anti-Israel personality's "solution" to the conflict is always something like "Our solution is JUSTICE!" or "the solution is that Israel REALIZEs etc." or that Israel "start to consider palestinians as human".... in other words, all they ever seem to have are silly slogans.
well as you are so fond of pointing out, israel is a democracy. do you expect someone will democratically get elected to push for negotation with palestine if the israeli majority themselves do not want it? Mentality has to change first cause politicians in democracies are supply and demand. And as long as pro-zionist people give arguments like yours instead of condemning israel over and over, these nutjob mentality of israelis wont change thinking their apartheid is justified. This is where Destiny's myth of "brave leaders" kind of ends. Sure its a solution but he hardly talks about how we gonna get those leaders...
Considering Palestinians as human is a silly slogan?
3 місяці тому+3
@@katyfive1 Putting words in my mouth is all u got. I am the one who considers Palestinians as humans - adult humans to be more specific. They are adult humans who have agency and have the ability to make choices, and like all humans, must deal with the consequences of such choices. U view them as children, (or worse) who we should just expect to lash out and should not be held responsible for their behavior.
3 місяці тому+2
@@katyfive1 Heres my question. Do u consider them as human? Because if u did, I would think that you would be outraged by the fact that Hamas spent 2 yrs planning an attack against Israel, knowing full-well that Israel would respond. And in all that time preparing, they didnt build a single civilian bomb shelter or plan any civilian evacuation protocol. And u know why - bc the lives of their own civilians mean nothing to Hamas. That outrages me - bc the Palestinians are human beings. So why does it not outrage u?
1:09 Gideon - If Destiny joins me in the West Bank, I will show him a lot of poor Palestinians (whose money Mahmoud Abbas steals and makes sure to preserve their suffering and hopelessness for the future and actually perpetuates their suffering for this very purpose) so he will change his mind. Which brings us back to the question of responsibility, who is responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians?
The Arab world is to blame, with Iran being the #1 cause. Palestinians are just pawns of the Greater Arab world to be the sacrificial lambs in the war against Israel. It was the Arab world that gave them the support in refusing statehood on five different occasions. If the Arab world told them "take the deal", they would have taken the deal.
@@thanatosdriver1938 You are missing the point. Of course, Israel also made mistakes. but not only Israel, the Palestinian leaders have a large part in the situation that has arisen and they have never taken responsibility for anything, only pointed the finger of blame as you were quick to do.
10:00 Leave aside the Gaza and West Bank it is apartheid even Palestinians with Israeli citizenship don’t have the same rights as Jewish Israelis , one example is not being able to pass down citizenship status to spouse and legal discrimination of land purchases .
Gideon’s claim that Israel will never give up land is demonstrably false and easily disproven. I genuinely don’t understand people like him who rely on such blatant bad faith arguments. Israel gave up Gaza in 2006 and the Sinai in 1978. It’s perfectly reasonable to debate whether these moves were done willingly, strategically, or under pressure, but the notion that Israel refuses to give up land under any circumstances is simply a lie.
Gideon is exclusively talking about Palestine, don’t know why you brought up the Egypt desert, not like they ever really even wanted that. They expanded settlements every year. They didn’t give up Gaza. Removing settlements doesn’t change the fact that there was a blockade, they controlled the land sea and sky, and they build military bases all around gaza
He claimed Israel would never give up land in pursuit of peace. So I pointed out two instances where it did. Was that really so hard for you to understand?
@@gorodemode nothing was hard for me to understand, you were just wrong about gaza and brought up egypt for no reason. Also Egypt didn't even get back the sinai for peace, it was because egypt beat israel in the 73 war.
You absolutely cannot blame the people that are being colonised for any form of resistance, be it political or physical. Never. Never. Never. Insane argume to make from both you and Destiny. And every single ceasefire agreement or otherwise has been totally untenable anyway. The Israelis and Netanyahu have always had conditions that are completely one-sided and unrealistic and dangerous for the Palestinians. This is common knowledge
You do realize that Gideon Levy works for a newspaper, which has been condemned by Israelis at large, multiple Israeli prime ministers, in addition to Israeli centrist leaders calling its articles “antisemitic”, and even Israeli leftist politicians branding it “hateful”. To sum it up, that’s literally everyone in Israel lol.
@@alexandrabogorad9207 Im sure the people calling a Jew antisemitic are very reasonable lol, much like how they call the actual native arab semites antisemitic. To sum it up, a bunch of people who support genocide and use of meaningless buzzwords are not an authority on whether Gideon Levy is worth listening to.
I cannot even bother to watch this when Newfield begins by referring to both as men of "good faith" which Gideon Levy certainly is not. It actually bothers be that Destiny would even use his valuable time to debate this wretched man.
I would suspect you listened with a preordained mindset and it acted as a filter to all the words that Gideon & Destiny spoke, ie Gideon bad, Destiny good, - I find this sad. I found both conversationalists were respectful of the other and with a filter that encompassed being able to hear.
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Gideon Levy ignores that Israel has shown on multiple occassions that they are pragmatic when it comes to the idea of withdrawing from territory. Most Israelis are not motivated by religion. They would accept conceding the West Bank if they had confidence that it would result in lasting peace. But Israelis know the Palestinian people too well to have any such confidence.
Yeah right. They've only ever given up territory by force, such as the Sinai after the 1973 war. They have never shown pragmatism. They have never offered a deal which respects the internationally recognised pre-1967 borders.
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@the0crowd258 Sorry but in what universe was Israel "forced" to relinquish the Sinai? What r u tlking about? They gave back the Sinai when Egypt was finally willing to sign a true peace agreement. Right then and there Israel showed that they dont want more territory, they just want to live. The calculation in the minds of most Israelis is simple: What situation will be more costly in terms of Israeli lives: a) Holding onto the territory? or b) withdrawing from the territory? In the case of the Sinai, and in the case of Gaza, they calculated that withdrawal was better. In the case of the West Bank, they know that if they withdrew, Hamas and/or other like-minded groups would immediately take over, and the situation would be way worse.
3 місяці тому
@@the0crowd258 U say that Israel has never offered a deal which respects the 67' borders. But the Palestinians have never offered a deal that guarantees Israel's continued existence as a Jewish state even after withdrawing to the 67' borders. And the Palestinians state the reason for that openly; in fact it's a catchy rhyme that they chant all the time: "From the river to the sea....etc." Israel will not voluntarily destroy itself, sorry.
"israel are pragmatic and are willing to compromise by giving up lands that THEY TOOK BY FORCE but they still wouldnt do this because palestinians are evil even tho israelis are pragmatic and willing for peace"
@the0crowd258 you're just lying here. They literally moved their people out of Gaza and gave the "palestinians" a state and what did they do? Technically after the 6 day war Israel could have kept everything. Israel have been fair all the way through and hamas have a blood list.
Gideon is a joke. Spent the entire interview spewing virtue signals, oh “apartheid”, “South Africa”, “Genocide”, “Israel is the stronger occupier/colonizer”. When Destiny countered hed just fall to “oh you’re thinking to practically, too diplomatically they need justice!!!”. The guy is a joke. Destiny ran laps around him
Yea I’m sure the guy who’s covered the conflict since he was young is just virtue signaling when he says words like “apartheid” (that various human rights groups also use to describe Israel.) that guy definitely lost to destiny who didn’t know the ME map a year ago lol
Saying a Jewish state is an apartheid state, is less signaling of virtue and more a substantive explanation of what’s happening to real people on the ground as second class citizens.
@@SoraKinglin-i4dwait, do you think covering a topic for a long time’s necessary means you become an expert/knowledgeable on the subject? Maybe he is just really really stupid?
Using the word “apartheid” to describe the West Bank is a virtue signal. The problem is the occupation and those Palestinians in that area are not Israeli civilians. There are 2 million Arab (Palestinian) Israeli citizens with full rights. Comparing this to Apartheid Africa is crude and low IQ
@@SoraKinglin-i4dhere's a harsh wake up call, fella: Human Rights groups are NOTHING. They contribute nothing and are likely leftists social corrosion operations
It was nice to see a peaceful debate. That is very rare. Ty Jake for leading the way. I think much of Gideon's belief is based on false premises. He says it's a problem with Israeli culture. The reality is that Israelis for the most part have always been for a two state solution. They, like any people, are reactionary and that is why after the second intifada Israel turned more toward the right. I am actually surprised Ben Gvir doesn't have a larger voting block. That is all in contrast to the so called moderate "PA" who actually funds terrorism. We are talking about two different worlds. The issue comes when westerners try to speak vicariously as a Palestinian.
I don't understand how Gideon Levy can not realize how insane he sounds when he says that Israel will be build settlements in Lebanon. Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years and didn't build settlements there, and no one has any thoughts of actually building settlements in Lebanon now. More than anything else, this shows me how discontented Gideon Levy is with reality. There are other things that might sound crazier to others, but this is on the level of Ukranian biolabs and other crazy beliefs.
" Israelis for the most part have always been for a two state solution" That is a great point for them back when this was valid. Now? 28% of Israeli citizens support a 2 state solution. This is no longer a claim that can be made
@@thanatosdriver1938 "They, like any people, are reactionary and that is why after the second intifada Israel turned more toward the right." Idk if that poll was from before or after O7. If it was after then my point is even more valid.
@@Dudemeister About 670,000 Israelis live in what's called the West Bank. Of those, about 85% live on the green line which would be part of land swaps. So you're really not talking about many people of consequence.
I've been watching The Ask Project for years. They ask Palestinians questions from listeners. Gaza is nicer than almost every Arabic city and U.S. cities, for that matter. They don't want a 2 state solution. They're taught Isreal stole their land. I think it was a mistake to attribute Western values with the Palestinians. Completely different realities of the world.
@scaryjoker It was never their land. They never concord it, never governed it, never controlled it in any way. They were contractors that the Ottoman Empire paied to work the land. None of the people claiming to have owned the land have any proof of ownership because they never did. It was the kingdom of Judea, than it was Roam, than it was Ottoman than it was Brittish than it was Isreal. The only reason anyone even calls it palastine is because Romans started calling it that to spite the jews that had an uprise againt them.
@NugKnights I just watched Triggernometry : Isreal's last war. She basically explains what leftists believe and why. It's a stance of moral superiority, but damn the facts that get in the way. Hassan Piker is a perfect example. BTW, leftists and Liberal are not the same. Liberal gets thrown around with all different meanings from every side.
@@Chriscraft50 yes and there is a divide between arab jews and europe jews though they could got peace like they did with germans but arabs not like germans
I don't like this guy because he just says "Israel" doesn't want peace. You may as well say 'the dirt' or 'the air''. Israel is a name, the people within it have varying ideas. He writes for an Israeli paper with the freedom to say terrible things about his own country. That's the type of freedom people deserve everywhere.
He gets freedom because he is living in a Jewish supremacist country and he is not non jewish. And so many isrelis have been arrested and beatenn up by idf for their support
Why did this debate take place? Destiny speaks in factuals, the Israeli is speaking from emotion. It isn’t a debate. A palestinian girlfriend told him while standing together in Tel Aviv to imagine outsiders came. It’s completely without nuance as his entire position
'Why did this debate take place? Destiny speaks in factuals, the Israeli is speaking from emotion.' If anything it's to illustrate just that, no? Even if it feels like he is arguing form a more emotional view point rather than a factual one It's very good to have the conversation regardless, don't you think? Especially when both speakers are being respectful. To write the whole conversation off as I felt you were insinuating I think is way worse than to have no discussion at all. That's just my opinion. (I mostly agreed with Stevens assessments on their more contentious points than Gideons's)
Israel must eliminate the threat. If there is a threat, Israel has every right to defend itself. Why not stop being a threat? I think that should be the question.
@@Oneflyingchair No matter what you label me, you can't undermine the fact that Israel has every right. You're just attacking nonsense. It's an old annoying tactic. On the ground, the enemy is kneeling to Israel. That's true.
Israeli here. Gideon Levy is a prime example to why the Jewish ppl survived for thousands of years and ultimately thrived. Embracing internal criticism is vital for any entity's long term success. I disagree with the vast majority of his views but would fight to have his voice heard. Now show me please the Arab Gideon Levy.
For education and info purposes only. Sourced online and books. Stating this because the comment gets deleted for hatevspeech. 1srael Zangwill, important political Zi0nst said in a talk in 1905, “(We) must be prepared either to drive out by the sw0rd the (Arab) Tribes in possession(of the land) as our forfathrs did or to grapple with the prblem of a large alien population, mostly Mhammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.” Around 1928, Shabtai Levi, a land purchasing agent for Bar0n R0thschild wrote in his memoirs, “He (the Baron) advised me to carry on in similar activities, but it is better, he said, not to transfer the Arabs to Syria and Transj0rdan, as these are part of the Land of 1srael, but to Mesopotamia (Iraq), He added that in these cases he would be ready to send the Arabs, at his expense, new agricultural machines, and agricultural advisers.” Around 1930, Zi0nst Socialist (Mapai) leader, David Hac0hen wrote, “… I would not accept Arabs in my trade union, the Histadrut; to defend preaching to housewives that they not buy at Arab stores; to prevent Arab workers from getting jobs there… To pour kerosene on Arab tomatoes, to attack Jwsh housewives in the markets and smash the Arab eggs they had bought; to praise to the skies the Keren Kayemet that sent Hankin to Beirut to buy land from absentee effendi (landowners) and to throw the fellahin (peasant farmers) off the land - to buy dozens of dunams - from an Arab is permitted, but sell, God forbid, one Jwsh dunam to an Arab is prohibited.” Menahem Ussishkin, chairman of the Jwsh National Fund, and member of the executive of the Jwsh Agency, said in a 1930 speech to journalists, “We must continually raise the demand that our land be returned to our possession … if there are other inhabitants there, they must be transferred to some other place. We must take over the land.
What’s hilarious and tragic here is thinking Destiny understands and knows more than an actual Israeli who lives there and reports on the events of his country.
In america you have democrats and conservatives that at times have polar opposite views on any given situation. If you think being 'an israeli' suddenly means you know the one certain truth then you are ignorant. There are people IN ISRAEL who hold similar views to destiny. It's not your status as a resident that matters, it's your arguments -- and Gideon has very poor ones
@@FishdawgZA Good for them. My point is Gideon is an Israeli, Destiny is not. I give more weight to someone who lives there who use to have Destiny's views as he admits in this "debate". I am well aware that anyone in Israel who dares question the occupation is considered a traitor of sorts. Just look at how they treat Btselem and Breaking the Silence. That's how propaganda works. It keeps you in a bubble where nothing pierces it.
@@justabrownmanactually what you just admitted is you give more weight to anyone who holds your opinion. Destiny is illegitimate bc he doesn’t live there Other Israelis are illegitimate bc they don’t agree with you. If you want to talk about propoganda now you need to look in the mirror
For education and info purposes only. Sourced online and books. Stating this because the comment gets deleted for hatevspeech. 1srael Zangwill, important political Zi0nst said in a talk in 1905, “(We) must be prepared either to drive out by the sw0rd the (Arab) Tribes in possession(of the land) as our forfathrs did or to grapple with the prblem of a large alien population, mostly Mhammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.” Around 1928, Shabtai Levi, a land purchasing agent for Bar0n R0thschild wrote in his memoirs, “He (the Baron) advised me to carry on in similar activities, but it is better, he said, not to transfer the Arabs to Syria and Transj0rdan, as these are part of the Land of 1srael, but to Mesopotamia (Iraq), He added that in these cases he would be ready to send the Arabs, at his expense, new agricultural machines, and agricultural advisers.” Around 1930, Zi0nst Socialist (Mapai) leader, David Hac0hen wrote, “… I would not accept Arabs in my trade union, the Histadrut; to defend preaching to housewives that they not buy at Arab stores; to prevent Arab workers from getting jobs there… To pour kerosene on Arab tomatoes, to attack Jwsh housewives in the markets and smash the Arab eggs they had bought; to praise to the skies the Keren Kayemet that sent Hankin to Beirut to buy land from absentee effendi (landowners) and to throw the fellahin (peasant farmers) off the land - to buy dozens of dunams - from an Arab is permitted, but sell, God forbid, one Jwsh dunam to an Arab is prohibited.” Menahem Ussishkin, chairman of the Jwsh National Fund, and member of the executive of the Jwsh Agency, said in a 1930 speech to journalists, “We must continually raise the demand that our land be returned to our possession … if there are other inhabitants there, they must be transferred to some other place. We must take over the land.
his comment section is wild. Destiny has backpedaled so many of his views since the Lex Friedman debate. This isn’t a debate he agrees with Gideon. Destiny’s view is Palestinians lost so tough nuggies, they should submit.
Which to be fair, is essentially the stance of every civilization in the history of humanity. Right or wrong, there’s no such thing as owning land. All land controlled by any civilization ever has been held through violence or the threat of it. Humans all came from Africa, the same place. Do Native Americans own the Americas? Should it be given back to them?
@@TWISTEDGiraff3 Native Americans were wiped out as a people, Arabs still make up half of the population of greater Israel. Arabs should not be genocided like the native Americans were. Just because people did this in the past doesn't mean we have to keep doing it. This doesn't work for anyone, not even the conquerors. They will be next in a few generations unless we stop the cycle
Stephen, what rights do Palestinians have? And reserve your 'vast' knowledge to someone who is more knowledgeable than you not simply by virtue of his birth but his extensive journalism, military service and senior position at Israel's highest level.
Dude Destiny is so pathetic. Levy is trying to get him to understand thos is about Justice. Destiny wants to recite dates and names. Hes turning into Ben Shapiro
Destiny agrees it is about justice. That’s why he shook his head in agreement when levy said it….he’s argued that it’s about justice for both sides many times. You are just ignorant of destiny’s actual argument
These two people sound fairly rational and intelligent. This entire debate just kept reminding me of the idea that this conflict is about "peace vs justice"
But it's "justice" for something that happened 76 YEARS AGO... Meanwhile if your living in the present day and not the past then for the past 50 YEARS Palestinians have been attacking isreal first, look it up every major conflict between Israel and Palestine for the past 50 years has started with Palestinians attacking isreal
I'm glad Gideon made a public commitment on video to his delusional view of Israel. In 6 months there will be no new settlements in Gaza or Lebanon. A year from now viewers can come back to this video, see this comment, and determine who was right.
What if your wrong? Will you apologize? Will you admit you were wrong? Or will you continue eating up is-raheili propaganda as undisputed facts like destiny?
"Senior ministers call for new settlements in Gaza at ultranationalist conference ‘Taking territory’ from Palestinians is what ‘hurts them most,’ says Likud minister Golan, while far-right police minister Ben Gvir says Gazans should be ‘encouraged’ to emigrate' the times of israel 21 October 2024, 8:22 pm
The way Levy talks makes it clear that you should listen to someone else on the topic. Regardless of what you know or don't or even what the facts are. So emotionally motivated and simplistic.
Because Israel has de facto governance over the West Bank and subject people who are born there to its laws, and yet denies them citizenship and equality rights.
As absurd as debates like this may seem on the surface, they serve to expose the irrationality of positions held by people like Gideon, especially when contrasted with the calm, sensible, and nuanced approach taken by Destiny.
Fascists consider relative calm in the face of righteous indignation a victory until they lose the reigns and then all hell breaks loose for them. Don't believe me, just watch (or look through history)
is this a joke? Destiny has proven consistently he's incapable of consistent, levelled and malleable logic, like you are just inhaling his shaft and the coolade for free, just because he sounds coherent.
Destiny Right to return is INTERNATIONAL LAW and mentioned in the UN resolution 181. The same UN that partitioned PALESTINE and gave the majority of the land of PALESTINE to Israel and which the Israelis have trashed ever since. You need to read history pretty boy.
How long do you think Israel will stay democratic if the Jews are a minority in the land? A single state solution, or a 2 state with full right of return, is not viable.
Right of return is ridiculous and should be ignored. What other country has allowed back those #displaced people who aligned with the attacking enemy? I favour former Ambassador David Friedman's #OneJewishState proposal. "Permanent residence status" with equal CIVIL rights should be given to the Arabs who live full-time in Judea and Samaria (leave Gaza for the moment). A pathway to full citizenship with NATIONAL voting rights should only be given after a qualifying period of time, maybe to the next generation of Arabs, providing they can pledge allegiance to the *Jewish* state of Israel. Israel can protect its Jewish "essence" by passing a law which requires a 90% majority vote in the Knesset to amend the 2018 Basic Law "Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People". If the fertility rate for Jewish women remains high, and the Muslim fertility rate reduces in line with education, I don't think demographics are that much of a problem. More Jews will make Aliyah and that should be encouraged. And the number of occupants in the disputed 'Palestinian' territories is probably inflated, to get more funding and propaganda power. Extending sovereignty over Judea and Samaria is certainly doable, I think. Any Arab who is still *hostile* to living in the Jewish state should be assisted by UNHCR to be resettled in one of the neighbouring Arab countries.
The second question is how long will the jews survive as a minority in the land when their enemies are committed to their total destruction. And the third question is which foreign countries are going to solve that emigration crisis, assuming there's any survivors
@@FishdawgZA: The Jews won't be a minority under the #OneJewishState proposal. Those Arabs who accept "permanent residence status" (without national voting rights) are better kept close at hand, rather than allowed to develop their own terror bases, as happened in Gaza. Egypt and Jordan only survive with financial help from the international community so they should be _encouraged_ to give citizenship to any existing 'Palestinian' refugees, and to those Arabs from the West Bank (aka Judea and Samaria) who request to return or move to those countries.
destiny questions literally got more ridiculously dumber One after the other, it’s like he kept on digging his own grave, you can literally see it in his lack of eye contact while asking questions 😂😂😂 minute 23 in the next few minutes, we’re the dumbest question that Gidon was losing his mind😂
What about the poor Palestinians they are powerless farmers throwing rocks and have no shoes to wear? The Israelis are superpowers they are guilty of persecution they have all the power, they are stealing land that is not there. There's gideon's entire argument. Well you can't just blame Israel, the Arabs have been attacking them from day one. There's blame on both sides. There's Steve's argument.
Destiny has said this exact quote multiple times and agrees with it. "Peace" can be an empty term; you can have "peace" by immediately surrendering completely to your enemy, but that's not always the desired outcome.
Perhaps quite natural when Levy is Jewish and Destiny Catholic - one is born and live in Israel, the other has visit the area for 14 days. #ExperiencedReality
@@mlo3784 Pretty sure he's not Catholic, but regardless, his lived experience does amount give his opinion a certain amount of gravity. Although, there are just as many jews who have the complete opposite outlook from maybe a relatively similar lived experience, so we can only lend the vague "lived experience" of one man so much credence when we are speaking about large multinational issues.
@@mlo3784yes, so Destiny can take a logical, pragmatic, disimpassioned approach based on research; while Levi's thinking is painted so much by a lifetime of emotion based on lived experience that he could never objectively analyse the situation. It has nothing to do with religion.
All this talk about apartheid and then there is a problem with the settlements. What is wrong with the settlements becoming part of the Palestinian state? Do they not want Jews in their state?
@@shaheerislam1059 Wont need protection when there is peace. If settlers dont like it, they can sell and move to Israel, after all Israel will still accept any Jews.
Nope... Gideon doesn't wish the best for everyone. Neither Israel, Palestine or anyone else including himself for that matter. As an Israeli expat I'm very familiar with his 'work'. He's sadly just a very disturbed individual. A Chomsky - Finkelstein hybrid of sorts. Revolutionaries for the sake of revolution. As critical thinkers - history is our most powerful point of reference. And in all recorded instances - revolutionaries for the sake of revolution ended in nothing but catastrophe.
You're right. It's clear that he does not want to move away from the initial injustice caused to the Palestinians, and it was a powerful message. However, he will not convince many without a pragmatic approach to temper Palestinian expectations, as the die is already cast.
Gideon clearly says Israel does not have any intention of settling the dispute only settling settlers and keeping the embers burning. In this he is right. This idea that the other side has to be pragmatic (in a debate) and not the party that does not even consider the aggressor an agressor is the hypocristy. But too hard to parse for you guys I guess.
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
you edited out Gideon's entire opening statement...where he made some really powerful points
"The idea that Jews have a historical right to the land of Israel is not based on fact but on myth." Shlomo Sand
Shlomo Sand also believes that Ashkenazi Jews all descended from the Khazars, which has been entirely debunked.
Gideon is a true hero that continues to speak truth to power. The Israelis that stand up against Netanyahu’s racist government deserve our deep admiration.
Nah he’s just as bad as Bibi just on the other side. Both are horrible radicals that shouldn’t be as popular as they are.
Hamas don't care.Most of October 7 victims were kibutzim peace Activists.
They had lists and name of every family ,Intel from Gazan that worked [ Till October 7].
The Israeli left crashed because of Terror.
Btw,Gideon is the minority of RADICAL left not hearing Hamas promises to repeat October 7.
truth only because he is openly call for the elimination of Israel.
That's the type of Jews you tolerate. Jews that will help you to eliminate Israel the only obstacle from another Holocaust.
If you only tolerate passive Jews why your direct ancestors exterminated six millions of them?
Gideon is a moral narcissist. He demands what he wants and he doesn't care about the consequences of implementing his ideas. He places all the onus on Israel and infantilizes the Palestinians.
Destiny argues there is no aparthied, describes the situation as aparthied and says no way aparthied will end until territorial dispute is solved. What kind of argument is this.
I take it like how doctors approach a diagnosis: you look at the symptoms a patient presents and rule out potential conditions until you find the best match. In this case, I think Destiny is saying that the "symptoms" can be explained by territorial disputes, so it shouldn't be "diagnosed" as apartheid. If those territorial disputes are resolved and it turns out that within Israel, citizens have unequal rights based on race or similar factors, then I think Destiny would probably call it apartheid. Until then it's premature to say and not particularly helpful
One that only exists in your head. That's not what he said. Apartheid is about race and racial dominance. In Israel there are Jews of all races, including tens of thousands of black Ethiopian Jews, with full rights. The separation of people is based on citizenship, not race.
@@johannarivers57 That is a grotesque inversion of reality. Aparyhied has a definition and it is own x tics. What is described in the debate are the total qualities of aparthied. You may argue that was caused by territorial dispute such that "Israel" is determined to supress the people it occupies so they will never raise up to challenge them. Destiny presents the qualities of aparthied but somehow says it is not aparthied and then claims the aparthied will end after territorial dispute is solved. It is not that we pretend we do not know the symptoms of aparthied. If you describe a situation, you and I can easily say it is aparthied and that is exactly what is happening in "Israel."
Well, destiny has always been generous and charitable to Israel. But applied double standards to Palestinians.
@@log_17"apartheid doesn't exist but it will end" lol nice one haha
38:45 Destiny is so obsessed with his “facts” (he’s wrong on most of his historical points) he can’t understand what Gideon is saying. A national recognition in behalf of the Israeli government of their brutal mistreatment of Palestinians is step ONE. No peace agreement can be made without an entire re-orienting of Israeli society, and it must be done BEFORE peace talks. Peace talks will NEVER work in a dynamic where the occupier sees you as sub-human animals and implants that into its population. National recognition and apology for the Nakba was a key request on behalf of the PLO during their negotiations with Israel. Israel refused. There is no peace to be had with a force that doesn’t recognize the mass ethnic cleansing it did to steal the land it’s on.
The audio quality was a bit lacking.
The boomer should learn how to use an external microphone 😂
@@CryptocurrencyInsider both have audio issues
@@CryptocurrencyInsiderGideon apologised at the beginning for sore throat
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
Why is this debate even happening? Gideon is a celebrated, experienced journalist that's lived in Israel and has known the conflict all his life. Destiny is a debate lord that's never left his basement. What a joke.
And yet destiny still destroyed him😂😂😂
You're making a presupposition-al claim
I think irrespective of your position on the conflict, you should appreciate this discussion happening.
Destiny, regardless of what you think of him, is somebody who has rigorously educated himself on the topic at hand(even going as far as visiting Israel) and has found himself to be mostly in favor of Israel.
He is now talking to somebody who clearly also has a deep and life lived experience in the same topic, to then have them talk about this issue should only satisfy your needs to seek truth, no matter who is correct.
There are people on Destiny's side who have equal and if not more experience on the topic who also agree with him, and vice versa, you need to let go of your ideological disposition and actually approach this conversation from a substantive basis instead of just writing off a discussion.
@@MeNameDark yappaholic "this paper says i can kill kids" head ahh
Ask the one you respect, since he obviously thought it was worth participating in 🙂
@@germanium6095 only in your dreams
Watching destiny lose literally every back and forth on this issue is very gratifying. He is also clearly slowly and stubbornly changing his view because despite his intransigence, he seems to be slowly digesting the reality. He has now ceded all moral foundations and is desperately clinging to pragmatism. I predict that in two years he will be effectively pro Palestinian because that is the only logical conclusion a fair minded person learning about these issues can reach.
100% agree on everything except It won't take two years, I'll give it a few months lmao
Lol destiny always changes his mind without admitting it. He literally sounds completely different here
All of u mfs just say this shit but never give any examples
Which back and forth did he lose on?
@@olo_smooth_olo5606he's constantly explaining how his ideas have evolved. You clearly don't watch him regularly enough to have this take .
15:21 The concept that the Palestinians and their leaders are poor, incompetent and have no responsibility is an arrogant superior concept that underestimates the ability and capacity of the Palestinians.
29:49 So why didn't Mahmoud Abbas sit down for negotiations?
34:46 And once again the superior perception of the Palestinians as lacking ability and responsibility. This concept only encourages the culture of victims and intransigence and the ability to negotiate for the future of the Palestinians. Until the Palestinians take responsibility for themselves under brave leadership nothing will change.
Gideon claims that they "tried diplomacy" - the Palestinians have never compromised on anything, their approach to diplomacy is give us all our demands or we will continue with violence. This is not diplomacy, this is extortion by violence, or in other words, terrorism.
Gideon is right about one thing, this approach will get you nowhere.
I kept reading past point 1.
Never mind my previous response.
Too bad you aren't debating. Destiny is ok. Nothing special. These debates, overall, don't compare to when Buckley, Vidal, Baldwin, Mailer, and Chomsky used to go at it. Those were great debates.
It doesn't merely underestimate Israel opposition, it also ignores the fact that Iran, Russian, China and North Korea, amongst other governments fund, train and arm the so called "resistance." These aren't farmers running around in sandals throwing rocks. They are state level military forces.
You can call it arrogant, but it's correct
@@Jannfndnanakid Palastinians are poor, sure.
But their leaders are multi-milioners that live in Qutar funded villas or are hosted by the IRGC in mansions
This debate is hilarious, because Destiny has chided Arab nations as hostile and racist not allowing Jews to migrate to Israel, but then says a Jewish state can be democratic for not allowing Arabs to migrate to Israel lmfao
Yes, he ignores how Israel deliberately took actions in Arab states to force Jewish migration to Israel
There’s around 130x times mores Arabs living in Israel than Jews living in the entirety of Middle East.
@@jpHero3yeah tends to happen when you offer any Jewish person free healthcare, education funded my the us tax payer
Democracy just means people choose through voting. If Israel does not let Arabs in, that doesn’t mean Israelis can’t vote. Analogously, America isn’t undemocratic for not letting Canadians vote.
@@tartarus1322 that just means the people are racist lmao
Timeline:
00:00 - Introductions
09:35 - Is Israel an Apartheid State?
19:56 - Are there problems with a Jewish state?
30:00 - The Failed Peace Process
36:37 - What is the Solution?
40:28 - One State vs Two State Solution
This is absurd. The Jew haters in the region should be grateful they were not treated the same as those conquered by expansionist Islam.
The Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in WW1 and lost. But Jew haters in the region think they had the right to curtail Jewish immigration? And attack over and over?
It's tragic that people taking Gideon seriously will get the impression that Jews are just supremacists mistreating another ethnic group.
What does he want? Statehood for Palestinians under whose leadership?
Has he ever looked at the Quran or the Hadiths? It's all about fighting jews. It's all about conquering non-muslims.
Statehood for Palestine will not lead to self-determination for its people.
The enemies of Israel will exert control over any Palestinian state and use it to attack Israel from the south.
That's exactly what Iran does with Hezbollah in the north.
And it's what Iran has been doing with Hamas in the south.
Isn't it obvious? The Islamic "ummah" has no interest in Palestinian sovereignty.
They want one Islamic nation.
The root of the problem is that Israel is getting attacked by hateful morons.
That doesn't mean there are no innocent people in Gaza and the West bank, obviously. They are victimized as much as anyone else.
But it's absurd to demand that the world give control to the people who we want to use that region as a place from which to attack israel.
@@noahghost4476 wow what a hate filled rant.
I just have one question. The Ottoman Empire gave Jews the right purchase land in 1836. Since you believe the Jewish state treats Palestinians so good relative to how Jews in Arab countries were treated, why can’t Palestinians, even Palestinians-Israeli citizens not buy land anywhere they please? Isn’t this a right the Ottomans gave the Jews?
@@shaheerislam1059 In fact, until 1867, only citizens of the Ottoman Empire could purchase land in the Land of Israel. It was only after a series of bilateral agreements between the Sublime Gate and the European powers that the ban on the purchase of land and the construction of houses by foreign subjects was lifted, and since then purchases have increased, both by Jews and Arabs.
@@mikitoledano6530 I see no problem with the Ottoman Empire not want to sell Jerusalem. I don’t have a problem with Jews of Israel not wanting to sell their holy sites either. I’m just pointing out the lie the Israelis treat Palestinians better than Arabs treated Jews. Arabs treated Jews better from 1836 until WW1. Jews kept trying to buy Jerusalem.
Btw just curious, do you think the Admission Committees Law (2011) which let Israeli-Jews discriminate on who can purchase land based on race a better or worse policy than the Ottoman’s letting Jews purchase land from 1860s
@@shaheerislam1059
Just reading your arguments reveals your bias, but one can understand that it is difficult to be objective, it requires effort especially when you have a personal or emotional involvement, "When a Jew buys a house, it is the empire that sells Jerusalem"
1. Nothing in my speech dealt with Israelis' relations with Palestinians or vice versa.
2. It is true that the treatment of the Jews under the rule of Islam changed in different periods that matched the spirit of the Sultan, but they were always considered second-class subjects and suffered harassment from the Muslim subjects mainly after bloodshed was spread.
3. It is true that the situation of the Jews improved after the conquest of Israel by the Egyptians (1831-1841). Some historical facts: during this period, a great demographic change also occurred due to the migration of thousands of Egyptians who settled in cities and villages in the territories that are now Israel.
In 1841, the Ottoman government, with the help of the European powers, managed to expel the Egyptians and in return for their help, the empire signed the capitulation agreements that allowed Jews and Christians to purchase land as well as sanitary and economic development (the economic prosperity led to the immigration of Arabs from all over the Middle East since there were no borders).
4. Admission Committees Law (2011) does not deal with discrimination for buying land between Jews and Arabs or race. The law in question applies to Israeli Jews and Arabs alike and deals with a family acceptance committee for small communal villages. And again I emphasize that an Israeli Jewish family will also have to go through an acceptance committee in order to live in a community village that meets the categories stipulated by law.
What do I think about it? It is up to each person to decide if it is appropriate for them to go through this process in order to become a member of the community.
One last thing, it seems that many people do not understand that the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens of Israel but citizens of the self-governing Palestinian Authority. The Arabs of Israel (those who define themselves as Palestinians and those who do not) are citizens of Israel, they are citizens with equal rights except for the military conscription law which does not apply to them but some of them choose to volunteer for service.
This is like listening to one person who lives in it and one playing a video game.
ye the one who playing the video game treats palestinains as adults while the one who "lives" in it treats like them like a 5 year old child with no self control
It's comical to see these comments. People think an Israeli who's spent his whole life living and covering this conflict somehow knows nothing. Meanwhile, Destiny uses a two week trip and Wikipedia as his main qualification as some sort of expert on this topic. Honestly, it shows the low level of idiocy amongst his fans and the current Israeli hasbara machine.
It’s because destiny isn’t really an intellectual he’s an influencer. His rabid fans are a reflection of that. No arguments. Just insults
Most Israeli journalists who studied the topic at least as much as Gideon disagree with him. He is a lone voice who says so himself
Not every Israeli Jew is smart
@@themossad good thing most historians in general don’t disagree with him
@@tobysmith2081 they do disagree which is why he admits he is a lone voice.
This and the Marc Lamont debates are the best ive seen so far. Thank you.
Wdym this is shit in comparison to the one with marc Lamont
27:39 - "Who do you think would have more security, Palestinians in Israel, or Israeli in Palestine" - 1. Gaza is being turned into a pile of rubble, there's no government, no services, and the only security forces are shooting Palestinian kids in the head. In both Israel proper and Gaza and West Bank, Palestinians are way less safe, than Israeli are. 2. The settlers don't seem to mind the terrible danger - they just keep taking land. 3. Palestinian land is being turned into a collection of tiny islands - Israeli don't give a f. about being 'unsafe', if they go to those tiny bantustans, because they never need to go there, unless their job involves driving a tank.
Destiny's arguments fcnk just plain suck.
There is a government. It’s just shit at its job and lost a war it started when it violated its neighbors sovereignty and kidnapped her citizens.
People aren’t settling Gaza, they settle the West Bank.
Settlers do care about the safety. That’s why they bring guns with them.
yea you really need to figure out the sound quality in the future. I'm 20 minutes in and I have to stop myself from closing the video because how hard it is to listen to.
As a destiny viewer i eas very impressed with the quality of the moderator and other guest. Feels like they were talking to each other and not past each other.
Thank you!
15:20 this is why I don't like Gideon Levy, Destiny is trying to have a nuanced discussion about the issues on each side and how the conflict could realistically be solved, and Gideon wants to reduce it all to a black-and-white simple-minded vision that is not productive at all, not to mention that he's completely ignoring the fact that Israel dismantled all the settlements in Gaza, didn't build a single settlement when they occupied south Lebanon for 18 years and did make some decent peace offers to the Palestinians in the 2000s, which were rejected.
Gideo Levy sounds like he is not living in the same reality as anyone else, like Qanon level ukraine biolabs level insane when he says that Israel will build settlements in Lebanon in a year. It is just unhinged.
Yeah but taking the conflict into the abstract world is a big mistake. Gideon is going straight to the point that there is major injustice. One has to look at the truth on the ground.
It is actually quite simple, one side is oppressing and holding another under occupation. I mean it doesn't get simpler than that
Define "decent". West Bank settlements started before and grew during the 2000s.
It is deceitful to claim you're giving something back as a gift when you took it in the first place, all the while stealing more on the side.
The Lebanon occupation was through the SLA which was Lebanese, and supervised by the UN, that's why there's outposts now being bombed by Israel itself.
Finally, Israel holds all the cards to make peace, because of daddy US. They can stop the slaughter right now but they wont because you elected this weird kind neo-nazi jews to government.
It's really not simple of you understand history and human behavior.
@@skyhunter996
Please help - In this hour long debate did Gideon ever mention ONCE what is the "JUSTICE" that the Palestinians deserve or want?
Great work Jake! Good honest discussions!
thanks!
Gideon exposed Destiny’s racist mentality.
I hear destiny trying to concede hard on a lot of Israel wrong doing. In fact Destiny conceded too much
Gideon like most Palestinians and supporters think they are ultimate victims and have no blame. They can’t see their actions have cost the problem to get bigger
Gideon is an israeli, my friend. Ask israeli historians like Ilan Pappe and israeli human rights organizations like Btselem and Yesh din.
At this point I think pride is the biggest barrier and its gotten too big to fail. They feel like they have to come out on top or nothing, but negotiations are about compromise. Its never going to be realistic to command the more powerful side not only to throw up their hands and give up the fight but lay down and let them have the country without any concessions even for just their safety... like they'd say "ok, i guess we are bastards. let us save you the trouble of killing us, we owe you that much. enjoy!" they actually think the online leftist shame machine will do its job here lol.
@@billcarson818 The comments clearly said "and supporters." This person knows Gideon is Israeli, dollars to donuts. It's not like his name isn't the most Israeli name on earth. He represents the overwhelming minority of Israelis amigo. And You forgot Norman Finklefuhrer. Even in WW2, we had to deal with Kappos. Only now, we aren't able to deal with them the same way we did back then.
Jews will always fall on every point of the spectrum. That is why the world wants us dead and gone. We disagree with everything, even with ourselves. That is what being Jewish is all about. But unlike Muslims, who murder each other in the millions, and nobody seems to care, Jews don't murder other Jews for disagreeing.
That is the sad part about these Jews who advocate on behalf of those who wish us dead. They just aren't that smart. Hamas would rip their hearts out if given the chance.
@@billcarson818Ilhan Pape is the most radical contrarian historian that exists. His work has been continually debunked and his ethnic cleansing book provides the most one sided telling of history. Rashid Khalidi, who is actually Palestinian, is far less one sided than Ilhan Pape and provides far more Palestinian criticism in his work despite the fact that he is Palestinian.
In fairness Gideon was born in Israel and lives outside Tel-Aviv,child of European Refugees and has spent time reporting from Palestine so I'd concede on certain points as well if I've limited knowledge of living in Israel.
Here’s my two cents, I’m an Israeli who for the most part disagrees with Bibi’s stance in politics, I think he caves in to religious right wing parties to have a strong enough coalition to stay in power, which is all he really cares about. But there has become somewhat of a leftie cult centered around hating on every move the government makes while he’s in power. People like Gideon have a lot to gain from Bibi losing power making his stance incredibly biased. He claims to be pro 2 state solution, but then tells a story about how heartbreaking a Jewish Tel Aviv is? Tel Aviv has been around long before Israel was founded and was supposed to be part of the Jewish state in the partition plan Gideon supposedly supported.
Would also like to mention how much Gideon is downplaying the amount of Israelis that would agree to a two state solution. He lives in this kind of “elite leftie” bubble that thinks the Israeli middle class is too barbaric to want to co exist with Arabs when in reality that same middle class that that might typically seem a bit more right wing (though that’s mostly a stereotype) are usually the ones that work more closely with Arabs (even Palestinians) and interact and make friends with them daily.
Curious your takes on Destiny's understanding. He'd probably agree with your politics pretty nicely, though he doesn't care about them much. He's highly knowledgeable on your history and conflicts, but from an American outsider perspective.
He has no emotional attachment to Israel whatsoever, though he has been there for a considerable visit and had substantial conversations with many remarkably high-profile Israelis.
Personally I think Gideon Levy is a grifter who got cathartically blown out in this debate, but as an American it's also not my battle either.
In essence, Israel functions as an apartheid state, rooted in systemic racism. From the beginning, early Zionist settlers had no intention of coexisting peacefully with the Palestinian population, a stance that has largely persisted to this day.
This is a debate between a 3rd grader and a professor. Gideon is thinking in terms of simplistic binary moral absolutes and Destiny has a nuanced and deep intellectuality honest understanding of the situation.
moral absolutes are the highest ideology we inherited from ancient thinkers, if you're gonna talk as if they're some useless things, you don't belong here, go back to the dark ages or something
this earth won't know peace until the generational brainwashing cults disappear, otherwise they're destined to cause man made disasters as we see it happening right now
And yet the guy that goes by a 3rd-grader nickname has to contradict himself so obviously. I only watched about 20 minutes of the discussion, but I can clearly see how that guy avoids acknowledging simple stated facts in their true face. Just as an example, Gideon Levy brings up the settlements as a proof that Israel has no intention of solving the issue in any way that can be peacefully acceptable, and then the other guy goes into the typical mental gymnastics in order to support his thesis claiming that both sides have similar aggressive atittudes, even though a few minutes earlier he had to agree that the situation there is maybe not typically an apartheid but practically it is such. I stopped watching because I have little patience with insincerity at the moment, even though this guy is definitely more sincere compared to so many others that are displayed on media shows globally.
@@angeliskarlos6395 The existance of settlements isn't dispositive about some fundamental and perpetual nature of the state of israel. Many of the settlements themselves even are considered illegal by israeli law.
@@Jannfndnanakid, but many are legal. And that's a moral abomination.
I love Gideon Levy so much. I think this was a really worthwhile conversation. Thank you for trying to push Destiny into engaging in empathy. I noticed how he preferred to discuss from a detached position. I don't see how a pragmatic solution is possible if there is no empathy towards the people you're oppressing.
Oppression requires detachment and dehumanisation. This is why we have to really push for empathy.
Thank you, Gideon ❤
Gideon actually almost didnt answer any questions, kept deflecting the questions to destiny without actually answering anything.
That's what happens when you own the winning argument but lack the powerful representation to implement justice, and the other side is coping HARD from it's lofty position of western favoritism. Lol
@@PunkiBrooster The winning argument, in this case, being "just stop being mean to each other, pwease, it makes me sad"
he did but u didn't like the answers so u didn't listen
Once the ICC has him in the courtroom then perhaps many questions would ll be answered without the interference of claiming injustice and the usual ace card call the Holocaust which is no longer working as a defense anymore
You seem to be mistaking Gideon with destiny. Destiny like almost immediately caved on his initial position that it’s not apartheid, changing his view to “the apartheid is temporary.” Do you feel like destiny didn’t really answer the question of whether there is apartheid?
Lol..."even if theyre the victim...the rape victim...i dont think its fair to give them zero agency, even if its 1% they derseve some blame, right"?
100% yes!!! Lets blame the rape victim 😂😂😂👨🍳💋
“40,000 Palestinians have been killed and you think it makes sense to talk about Israeli security?”
Destiny: yes! 😃
This is why that region will never have peace. The Palestinians have had to deal with these horrible people for 80 years now and they’re just tired of it. That’s why oct7 happened
Thanks for your work, Jake. Your new channel is very good. Keep up the great work.
Very interesting convo, and very wholesome, especially toward the end. Obviously if the audio was better it would've been more accessible, but you moderated very well. You talked when the debate was dry and you let them talk when it was interesting. The only problem is that I'm not sure if this format works for people who are too far apart politically. Destiny and Gideon seem relatively close to each other in terms of politics; Destiny is a very pro-Palestinian pro-Israel person and Gideon is an Israeli pro-Palestine person, so they will align on a lot, and where they disagree they can disagree with respect. But the Israel/Palestine debate in general is filled with genuine hatred. Just something to consider
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
I've never heard good faith to describe Destiny before
Gideon has a lot of wishful thinking going on here.
More like you shills in the comments.
@@droptableaccount1820I wonder how much these dumb shills are paid?
35:25 Gideon, earlier, made the argument that Palestinians need to be looked at as equals and not these Evil people, while 10 min later saying Israel ppl are not equal to Palestinians, they are the evil ppl😂. The Hypocrisy is astonishing
Well I guess after one year of g3nocide, it's understandable.
Enjoyable conversation. Another great example how close both positions actually are when the conversation happens in a respectful manner. Especially when Gideon pointed out that he thought similar to Steven when he was younger, but apparently now tries to tackle the problem from a different "layer", I assume giving the hopelessness of the situation. And he also seemed genuine about it. Overall this just fuels my disdain for the radical commentators and actual propagandists on either side.
The offer that was presented to the owners of the land was as follows: Someone decided to bring a family with two children who were persecuted thousands of kilometers away from your home to live with you in your home, which you generously accepted to host them. As the days passed, this family liked your home, which was home to 10 people! So the one who sent this family decided to divide your home unfairly, so that the family of 10 people would get less than half the house, while the family of 4 people would get more than half!! So your decision was to reject this offer, not because the division was unfair, but because the offer was basically an April Fool's joke!!! How could any sane person give up even one inch of his home!! All the countries that were under the British mandate struggled to liberate their homelands. Why is this struggle called terrorism when it is carried out by the owner of the land in 2025, knowing that we have become more civilized and humane and we claim that the law of the jungle no longer exists!!!
why is Destiny's audio so bad?? any way to fix that?
I tried but I'll try harder when I post some clips of this
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
podcasters and broadcasters in general, really need to understand audio, but most of them do not. This discussion is ruined because one participant is using a horrible laptop microphone. This is made even worse because this person has a fairly thick accent. So one person in the discussion is audibly dominant and the other is a muffled mess. I realize this is now common place but it really needs to stop. Insist that your guests have decent microphones and send them one if they don't have one.
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
When I saw that Gideon Levy was one of the debaters, I honestly figured that he'd only make emotional/bad arguments and that it would essentially be a waste of time....and then I watched the video and was proven right. Truly one of the worst debaters from the Pro-Palestinian side that I've ever seen.
One cannot be a good debater when none of the facts are on his side. Levy is a truly wretched man.
Gideon isn't a debater and generally Israelis are not good at debates.
I used to read his opinion column years ago and stopped because he became too left wing crazy for my taste, it became too difficult to read...
Gideon, unlike most Pro Palestinian speakers, is also very Israeli and originally a Zionist. And I believe he prefers a two state solution if he felt that's possible just like he said in this video.
I think what Gideon is trying to say here, is that we should forget the history, and just focus on the future pragmatically. And that's a sensible thing to do if we want to fix it, which I believe he does.
And pragmatically there are three alternatives, all implementable by unilaterally by Israel, if we really wanted to:
1. Annexation and give Palestinians equal civic rights - leading to a one democratic state and perhaps later on to civil war or reconciliation.
2. Annexation without civic right, leading to Apartheid and probably boycott of Israel and its demise. This is actually the preference of the most right wing parties in Israel, although they believe there's a way to drive the Palestinians out of the territory somehow...
3. Unilateral withdrawl of the west bank, disassembly of all small settlements, and call to the PA to declare a state and later come to the negotiation table to agree land swaps for the major settlements that cannot be undone. Israel would still secure all borders and air space in the foreseeable future and might even maintain the ability to enter the WB with troops if necessary.
This is more or less the only option that leaves a Jewish Zionist sustainable Israel, keeps it democratic, and secures the West's support for Israel.
Gideon's frustration which I share, is that Israel should have done it in 1967 and at any point since but never even entertained the idea seriously, so why would that happen now?
There is of course the fantasy dream of everyone coming to the negotiation table and striking a peace deal and living happily ever after, but the Palestinians will never dismiss the Right of Return...
@@itamarchen1no Gideon specfically doesn’t want to forget the past because he talks about a deal having justice, which includes the right of return. It is what it is, right now it’s hard to make a deal
@@miguelsanchez2230
There will never be a Right of Return into Israel proper. The Palestinians will be able to return into their territory.
I don't think people around the world appreciate it, but Israel / Palestine is a very small area, that can be driven across in under 20 minutes or so.
So when I'm saying the Palestinians will have to return into the Palestinian territory, it means they can practially live just a few kilometers from wherever their family has originally lived before 1948.
The expectation that they each can go back to exactly the same village and exactly the same land as existed in 1948 is unrealistic and childish. Reality moved on, that is no longer possible, these villages do not exist, in their places today there are often cities with tens of thousands of people and often more.
@@itamarchen1 yea i agree with ya but we’re not the ones to convince haha they have to come to realize it or just keep fighting forever, it is what it is
Destiny is outright lying in some of his arguments, being intellectually dishonest in most and he just doesn't know the history to any significant degree. You can hear it in how he just throws out buzz words and names without any real detail
It is despairing to see how few questions Gideon can handle without any "What about" statements
Because the settlements destroy all apology for zionists: the peace process the Western values and the Israeli propaganda. And that hurts you.
the same goes for the other side.
When Levy says Israel should be held to western standards, Steve immediately goes to "what about the neighbors?".
@@TehGrandVizier I didn't interpret this as a "what about" statement, I view it as an argument that since the neighbors are not held to those standards, we can't expect Israel to fully live up to them".
In any case, destiny might have had a few such statements but the fact that you answered my observation about "What about" statements with a "What about" statement just doubles my despair
@@oreltahary1547we treat Israel as a Western democracy. They want to be called a western democracy. We FUND them as a Western democracy. If they want to be considered an ethno-state like Saudi Arabia or whatever then say it, ffs. How do we treat people who say that "America is a Christian nation"? We call them right wing fascists. Imagine if America started taking rights away from non-christian Americans. We'd have a problem with that. In the same way if Israel wants to be a Jewish ethno-state, let them be, and let's end the charade that they are a democracy. And for god's sake let them fund their own fascistic wars
@@oreltahary1547 Whataboutism sophistry has really been a great invention by the neocons I have to say,
37:08 Gideon: "Israel has to learn they can't do whatever it wants to do because its stronger"
Please someone smack this man with a history book. Especially of Arab empires. Thats EXACTLY how it is.😂
u wanna be a tyrannical empire? cool mask off ig
I don't understand how Gideo Levy can not realize how insane he sounds when he says that Israel will be build settlements in Lebanon. Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years and didn't build settlements there, and no one has any thoughts of actually building settlements in Lebanon now. More than anything else, this shows me how discontented Gideon Levy is with reality.
Lebanon occupation ended because isrel got kicked out like wha
@@Kookie-m6p Israel was there for 18 years and didn't build a single settlement....
@@HesderOleh wow!! they’re so kind. what is ur point lmao. they shouldn’t do it ANYWHERE, not just in Lebanon.
The destiny guy is just insane. He is spitting nazi like arguments against the Palestinians with such ease and smoothness.
I have to wonder whether he has been made an offer. He went from having no interest in this issue to endlessy debating of which you can find plenty of evidence where he says he lacks knowledge on the topic. Its no secret Israel went into overdrive asking influencers to back their side in exchange for money.
@@scytheoflife1947ua-cam.com/video/eDZ1XyVeQKU/v-deo.htmlsi=sH7llePRZeU7lnLe
@@scytheoflife1947he very obviously has; the guy is a grifter who has stopped talking about israel now that the election is coming up and he clearly only cares about being able to make money from being contrarian
@@muhammada5276This is it. I don't think he even believes what he's saying. Rotten way to make money.
What Nazi arguments do you mean?
Anybody who takes "Destiny" seriously is a fool. smh
Unfortunately those people exists
@@LastingPeace-bs7ihYoung kids maybe. It's bizarre seeing him in these discussions.
Destiny is a denialist of note
He pretends to see the injustices but is comfortable with the sufferings of Palestinians 🙆🏿♂️
The classic anti-Israel personality's "solution" to the conflict is always something like "Our solution is JUSTICE!" or "the solution is that Israel REALIZEs etc." or that Israel "start to consider palestinians as human".... in other words, all they ever seem to have are silly slogans.
illegal occupation
well as you are so fond of pointing out, israel is a democracy. do you expect someone will democratically get elected to push for negotation with palestine if the israeli majority themselves do not want it? Mentality has to change first cause politicians in democracies are supply and demand. And as long as pro-zionist people give arguments like yours instead of condemning israel over and over, these nutjob mentality of israelis wont change thinking their apartheid is justified. This is where Destiny's myth of "brave leaders" kind of ends. Sure its a solution but he hardly talks about how we gonna get those leaders...
Considering Palestinians as human is a silly slogan?
@@katyfive1 Putting words in my mouth is all u got.
I am the one who considers Palestinians as humans - adult humans to be more specific. They are adult humans who have agency and have the ability to make choices, and like all humans, must deal with the consequences of such choices. U view them as children, (or worse) who we should just expect to lash out and should not be held responsible for their behavior.
@@katyfive1 Heres my question. Do u consider them as human? Because if u did, I would think that you would be outraged by the fact that Hamas spent 2 yrs planning an attack against Israel, knowing full-well that Israel would respond. And in all that time preparing, they didnt build a single civilian bomb shelter or plan any civilian evacuation protocol. And u know why - bc the lives of their own civilians mean nothing to Hamas. That outrages me - bc the Palestinians are human beings. So why does it not outrage u?
Good listen 👍🏽
1:09 Gideon - If Destiny joins me in the West Bank, I will show him a lot of poor Palestinians (whose money Mahmoud Abbas steals and makes sure to preserve their suffering and hopelessness for the future and actually perpetuates their suffering for this very purpose) so he will change his mind.
Which brings us back to the question of responsibility, who is responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians?
The Arab world is to blame, with Iran being the #1 cause. Palestinians are just pawns of the Greater Arab world to be the sacrificial lambs in the war against Israel. It was the Arab world that gave them the support in refusing statehood on five different occasions. If the Arab world told them "take the deal", they would have taken the deal.
Probably the randos from Belarus and Brooklyn occupying them.
Israel does have blame here and the people on the ground, I'm sure will tell you exactly where the blame comes
@@thanatosdriver1938 You are missing the point. Of course, Israel also made mistakes. but not only Israel, the Palestinian leaders have a large part in the situation that has arisen and they have never taken responsibility for anything, only pointed the finger of blame as you were quick to do.
@@mikitoledano6530 Fair enough
10:00 Leave aside the Gaza and West Bank it is apartheid even Palestinians with Israeli citizenship don’t have the same rights as Jewish Israelis , one example is not being able to pass down citizenship status to spouse and legal discrimination of land purchases .
The problem is thar Destiny Fool is a fool and doesn't understand what Apartheid is. He's privileged. He's racist and he's dump .
Gideon’s claim that Israel will never give up land is demonstrably false and easily disproven.
I genuinely don’t understand people like him who rely on such blatant bad faith arguments. Israel gave up Gaza in 2006 and the Sinai in 1978.
It’s perfectly reasonable to debate whether these moves were done willingly, strategically, or under pressure, but the notion that Israel refuses to give up land under any circumstances is simply a lie.
Gideon is exclusively talking about Palestine, don’t know why you brought up the Egypt desert, not like they ever really even wanted that. They expanded settlements every year. They didn’t give up Gaza. Removing settlements doesn’t change the fact that there was a blockade, they controlled the land sea and sky, and they build military bases all around gaza
ok “Shaeer Islam” im sure your opinion is not slanted in any way 😊
@@BigEyeGuy why is it because I’m one of (((them)))
He claimed Israel would never give up land in pursuit of peace. So I pointed out two instances where it did. Was that really so hard for you to understand?
@@gorodemode nothing was hard for me to understand, you were just wrong about gaza and brought up egypt for no reason. Also Egypt didn't even get back the sinai for peace, it was because egypt beat israel in the 73 war.
You absolutely cannot blame the people that are being colonised for any form of resistance, be it political or physical. Never. Never. Never. Insane argume to make from both you and Destiny.
And every single ceasefire agreement or otherwise has been totally untenable anyway. The Israelis and Netanyahu have always had conditions that are completely one-sided and unrealistic and dangerous for the Palestinians. This is common knowledge
Debate between someone with decades of "lived experience" and an American youtuber who visited the area for two weeks LOL
Sums it up
You do realize that Gideon Levy works for a newspaper, which has been condemned by Israelis at large, multiple Israeli prime ministers, in addition to Israeli centrist leaders calling its articles “antisemitic”, and even Israeli leftist politicians branding it “hateful”. To sum it up, that’s literally everyone in Israel lol.
@@alexandrabogorad9207 Im sure the people calling a Jew antisemitic are very reasonable lol, much like how they call the actual native arab semites antisemitic. To sum it up, a bunch of people who support genocide and use of meaningless buzzwords are not an authority on whether Gideon Levy is worth listening to.
Bad faith argument. He read multiple Wikipedia articles.
He speaks fast and has no accent, must be right
good convo 👍
I cannot even bother to watch this when Newfield begins by referring to both as men of "good faith" which Gideon Levy certainly is not. It actually bothers be that Destiny would even use his valuable time to debate this wretched man.
I would suspect you listened with a preordained mindset and it acted as a filter to all the words that Gideon & Destiny spoke, ie Gideon bad, Destiny good, - I find this sad. I found both conversationalists were respectful of the other and with a filter that encompassed being able to hear.
Gideon Levy ignores that Israel has shown on multiple occassions that they are pragmatic when it comes to the idea of withdrawing from territory.
Most Israelis are not motivated by religion. They would accept conceding the West Bank if they had confidence that it would result in lasting peace. But Israelis know the Palestinian people too well to have any such confidence.
Yeah right. They've only ever given up territory by force, such as the Sinai after the 1973 war. They have never shown pragmatism. They have never offered a deal which respects the internationally recognised pre-1967 borders.
@the0crowd258 Sorry but in what universe was Israel "forced" to relinquish the Sinai? What r u tlking about? They gave back the Sinai when Egypt was finally willing to sign a true peace agreement. Right then and there Israel showed that they dont want more territory, they just want to live.
The calculation in the minds of most Israelis is simple: What situation will be more costly in terms of Israeli lives: a) Holding onto the territory? or b) withdrawing from the territory?
In the case of the Sinai, and in the case of Gaza, they calculated that withdrawal was better. In the case of the West Bank, they know that if they withdrew, Hamas and/or other like-minded groups would immediately take over, and the situation would be way worse.
@@the0crowd258 U say that Israel has never offered a deal which respects the 67' borders. But the Palestinians have never offered a deal that guarantees Israel's continued existence as a Jewish state even after withdrawing to the 67' borders. And the Palestinians state the reason for that openly; in fact it's a catchy rhyme that they chant all the time: "From the river to the sea....etc."
Israel will not voluntarily destroy itself, sorry.
"israel are pragmatic and are willing to compromise by giving up lands that THEY TOOK BY FORCE but they still wouldnt do this because palestinians are evil even tho israelis are pragmatic and willing for peace"
@the0crowd258 you're just lying here. They literally moved their people out of Gaza and gave the "palestinians" a state and what did they do? Technically after the 6 day war Israel could have kept everything. Israel have been fair all the way through and hamas have a blood list.
Gideon is a joke. Spent the entire interview spewing virtue signals, oh “apartheid”, “South Africa”, “Genocide”, “Israel is the stronger occupier/colonizer”. When Destiny countered hed just fall to “oh you’re thinking to practically, too diplomatically they need justice!!!”. The guy is a joke. Destiny ran laps around him
Yea I’m sure the guy who’s covered the conflict since he was young is just virtue signaling when he says words like “apartheid” (that various human rights groups also use to describe Israel.) that guy definitely lost to destiny who didn’t know the ME map a year ago lol
Saying a Jewish state is an apartheid state, is less signaling of virtue and more a substantive explanation of what’s happening to real people on the ground as second class citizens.
@@SoraKinglin-i4dwait, do you think covering a topic for a long time’s necessary means you become an expert/knowledgeable on the subject? Maybe he is just really really stupid?
Using the word “apartheid” to describe the West Bank is a virtue signal. The problem is the occupation and those Palestinians in that area are not Israeli civilians. There are 2 million Arab (Palestinian) Israeli citizens with full rights. Comparing this to Apartheid Africa is crude and low IQ
@@SoraKinglin-i4dhere's a harsh wake up call, fella: Human Rights groups are NOTHING. They contribute nothing and are likely leftists social corrosion operations
The introduction is hilarious
It was nice to see a peaceful debate. That is very rare. Ty Jake for leading the way.
I think much of Gideon's belief is based on false premises. He says it's a problem with Israeli culture. The reality is that Israelis for the most part have always been for a two state solution. They, like any people, are reactionary and that is why after the second intifada Israel turned more toward the right. I am actually surprised Ben Gvir doesn't have a larger voting block.
That is all in contrast to the so called moderate "PA" who actually funds terrorism. We are talking about two different worlds. The issue comes when westerners try to speak vicariously as a Palestinian.
I don't understand how Gideon Levy can not realize how insane he sounds when he says that Israel will be build settlements in Lebanon. Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years and didn't build settlements there, and no one has any thoughts of actually building settlements in Lebanon now. More than anything else, this shows me how discontented Gideon Levy is with reality.
There are other things that might sound crazier to others, but this is on the level of Ukranian biolabs and other crazy beliefs.
" Israelis for the most part have always been for a two state solution"
That is a great point for them back when this was valid. Now? 28% of Israeli citizens support a 2 state solution. This is no longer a claim that can be made
That is not the reality. If they were for a two state solution they wouldn’t be living in both “states” in increasing numbers
@@thanatosdriver1938 "They, like any people, are reactionary and that is why after the second intifada Israel turned more toward the right." Idk if that poll was from before or after O7. If it was after then my point is even more valid.
@@Dudemeister About 670,000 Israelis live in what's called the West Bank. Of those, about 85% live on the green line which would be part of land swaps.
So you're really not talking about many people of consequence.
This is by far the most productive conversation about this conflict compared to the shitshows that unfolded before it.
I've been watching The Ask Project for years. They ask Palestinians questions from listeners. Gaza is nicer than almost every Arabic city and U.S. cities, for that matter. They don't want a 2 state solution. They're taught Isreal stole their land. I think it was a mistake to attribute Western values with the Palestinians. Completely different realities of the world.
yes the arab world only knows dictatorship and military streangth the answer is in the korana book full of violence
They were taught the correct thing then.
@scaryjoker It was never their land. They never concord it, never governed it, never controlled it in any way. They were contractors that the Ottoman Empire paied to work the land.
None of the people claiming to have owned the land have any proof of ownership because they never did.
It was the kingdom of Judea, than it was Roam, than it was Ottoman than it was Brittish than it was Isreal.
The only reason anyone even calls it palastine is because Romans started calling it that to spite the jews that had an uprise againt them.
@NugKnights I just watched Triggernometry : Isreal's last war. She basically explains what leftists believe and why. It's a stance of moral superiority, but damn the facts that get in the way. Hassan Piker is a perfect example. BTW, leftists and Liberal are not the same. Liberal gets thrown around with all different meanings from every side.
@@Chriscraft50 yes and there is a divide between arab jews and europe jews though they could got peace like they did with germans but arabs not like germans
I don't like this guy because he just says "Israel" doesn't want peace. You may as well say 'the dirt' or 'the air''. Israel is a name, the people within it have varying ideas. He writes for an Israeli paper with the freedom to say terrible things about his own country. That's the type of freedom people deserve everywhere.
Israel's citizens don't want peace. Israel's government doesn't want peace. Therefore Israel doesn't want peace
He gets freedom because he is living in a Jewish supremacist country and he is not non jewish. And so many isrelis have been arrested and beatenn up by idf for their support
Why did this debate take place? Destiny speaks in factuals, the Israeli is speaking from emotion. It isn’t a debate. A palestinian girlfriend told him while standing together in Tel Aviv to imagine outsiders came. It’s completely without nuance as his entire position
'Why did this debate take place? Destiny speaks in factuals, the Israeli is speaking from emotion.' If anything it's to illustrate just that, no? Even if it feels like he is arguing form a more emotional view point rather than a factual one It's very good to have the conversation regardless, don't you think? Especially when both speakers are being respectful. To write the whole conversation off as I felt you were insinuating I think is way worse than to have no discussion at all. That's just my opinion. (I mostly agreed with Stevens assessments on their more contentious points than Gideons's)
Profile pic lmao. Opinion discarded.
illegal occupation
@@droptableaccount1820 ???are u antiemetic
Yeah that was weird, i get it, but its a poor choice to use anecdotes.
Good conversation, thanks. Appreciate the intellectual honesty.
Israel must eliminate the threat.
If there is a threat, Israel has every right to defend itself.
Why not stop being a threat?
I think that should be the question.
@Truculentz Russia, too, must eliminate the threat , isn't it?
@@marknaj3026 If you are not smart enough to see which side invades the border first. Hopefully, you can answer that easily.
@@Truculentzyou're also not very smart if you keep regurgitating the same old slogan "Israel has the right to defend itself."
@@Oneflyingchair No matter what you label me, you can't undermine the fact that Israel has every right. You're just attacking nonsense. It's an old annoying tactic. On the ground, the enemy is kneeling to Israel. That's true.
@@Truculentz Show me a map with a clear israeli border, and I will see.
Israeli here. Gideon Levy is a prime example to why the Jewish ppl survived for thousands of years and ultimately thrived. Embracing internal criticism is vital for any entity's long term success. I disagree with the vast majority of his views but would fight to have his voice heard. Now show me please the Arab Gideon Levy.
For education and info purposes only. Sourced online and books. Stating this because the comment gets deleted for hatevspeech. 1srael Zangwill, important political Zi0nst said in a talk in 1905, “(We) must be prepared either to drive out by the sw0rd the (Arab) Tribes in possession(of the land) as our forfathrs did or to grapple with the prblem of a large alien population, mostly Mhammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.”
Around 1928, Shabtai Levi, a land purchasing agent for Bar0n R0thschild wrote in his memoirs, “He (the Baron) advised me to carry on in similar activities, but it is better, he said, not to transfer the Arabs to Syria and Transj0rdan, as these are part of the Land of 1srael, but to Mesopotamia (Iraq), He added that in these cases he would be ready to send the Arabs, at his expense, new agricultural machines, and agricultural advisers.”
Around 1930, Zi0nst Socialist (Mapai) leader, David Hac0hen wrote, “… I would not accept Arabs in my trade union, the Histadrut; to defend preaching to housewives that they not buy at Arab stores; to prevent Arab workers from getting jobs there… To pour kerosene on Arab tomatoes, to attack Jwsh housewives in the markets and smash the Arab eggs they had bought; to praise to the skies the Keren Kayemet that sent Hankin to Beirut to buy land from absentee effendi (landowners) and to throw the fellahin (peasant farmers) off the land - to buy dozens of dunams - from an Arab is permitted, but sell, God forbid, one Jwsh dunam to an Arab is prohibited.”
Menahem Ussishkin, chairman of the Jwsh National Fund, and member of the executive of the Jwsh Agency, said in a 1930 speech to journalists, “We must continually raise the demand that our land be returned to our possession … if there are other inhabitants there, they must be transferred to some other place. We must take over the land.
What’s hilarious and tragic here is thinking Destiny understands and knows more than an actual Israeli who lives there and reports on the events of his country.
🐒
In america you have democrats and conservatives that at times have polar opposite views on any given situation. If you think being 'an israeli' suddenly means you know the one certain truth then you are ignorant. There are people IN ISRAEL who hold similar views to destiny. It's not your status as a resident that matters, it's your arguments -- and Gideon has very poor ones
@@FishdawgZA Good for them. My point is Gideon is an Israeli, Destiny is not. I give more weight to someone who lives there who use to have Destiny's views as he admits in this "debate". I am well aware that anyone in Israel who dares question the occupation is considered a traitor of sorts. Just look at how they treat Btselem and Breaking the Silence. That's how propaganda works. It keeps you in a bubble where nothing pierces it.
@@justabrownmanactually what you just admitted is you give more weight to anyone who holds your opinion.
Destiny is illegitimate bc he doesn’t live there
Other Israelis are illegitimate bc they don’t agree with you.
If you want to talk about propoganda now you need to look in the mirror
@@Peace216 Nice try. I give weight to people who have the courage to speak up and break free of the programming. ;) good luck to you.
It's ironic how the positions of the two guests are so aesthetically juxtaposed.
It takes 2 to make peace and only 1 to make war. So along as one side wants to continue the fight it will go on.
OK so what happens if Israel becomes the only one who wants war?
For education and info purposes only. Sourced online and books. Stating this because the comment gets deleted for hatevspeech. 1srael Zangwill, important political Zi0nst said in a talk in 1905, “(We) must be prepared either to drive out by the sw0rd the (Arab) Tribes in possession(of the land) as our forfathrs did or to grapple with the prblem of a large alien population, mostly Mhammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.”
Around 1928, Shabtai Levi, a land purchasing agent for Bar0n R0thschild wrote in his memoirs, “He (the Baron) advised me to carry on in similar activities, but it is better, he said, not to transfer the Arabs to Syria and Transj0rdan, as these are part of the Land of 1srael, but to Mesopotamia (Iraq), He added that in these cases he would be ready to send the Arabs, at his expense, new agricultural machines, and agricultural advisers.”
Around 1930, Zi0nst Socialist (Mapai) leader, David Hac0hen wrote, “… I would not accept Arabs in my trade union, the Histadrut; to defend preaching to housewives that they not buy at Arab stores; to prevent Arab workers from getting jobs there… To pour kerosene on Arab tomatoes, to attack Jwsh housewives in the markets and smash the Arab eggs they had bought; to praise to the skies the Keren Kayemet that sent Hankin to Beirut to buy land from absentee effendi (landowners) and to throw the fellahin (peasant farmers) off the land - to buy dozens of dunams - from an Arab is permitted, but sell, God forbid, one Jwsh dunam to an Arab is prohibited.”
Menahem Ussishkin, chairman of the Jwsh National Fund, and member of the executive of the Jwsh Agency, said in a 1930 speech to journalists, “We must continually raise the demand that our land be returned to our possession … if there are other inhabitants there, they must be transferred to some other place. We must take over the land.
his comment section is wild. Destiny has backpedaled so many of his views since the Lex Friedman debate. This isn’t a debate he agrees with Gideon. Destiny’s view is Palestinians lost so tough nuggies, they should submit.
Which to be fair, is essentially the stance of every civilization in the history of humanity. Right or wrong, there’s no such thing as owning land. All land controlled by any civilization ever has been held through violence or the threat of it. Humans all came from Africa, the same place. Do Native Americans own the Americas? Should it be given back to them?
@@TWISTEDGiraff3 Native Americans were wiped out as a people, Arabs still make up half of the population of greater Israel. Arabs should not be genocided like the native Americans were. Just because people did this in the past doesn't mean we have to keep doing it. This doesn't work for anyone, not even the conquerors. They will be next in a few generations unless we stop the cycle
@@TWISTEDGiraff3 so yeah you guys are colonizers
@@TWISTEDGiraff3Would this be your view if you were Palestinian or Ukrainian?
Destiny avoids every argument that requires him to see Palestinians as human beings.
Destiny should have went harder, he let him get away with so much
Tbh I think he wants to move on from this topic and didn't have the energy to deal with people who aren't good faith.
Harder with what? Pretending Israel wants a 2 state solution?
Only someone delusional would Destiny knows more than the actual Israeli journalist. 😂😂😂
@per.holtstrandlol and that’s how I know you’re delusional.
@@wolf_tooth79 he doesn't know how
Stephen, what rights do Palestinians have? And reserve your 'vast' knowledge to someone who is more knowledgeable than you not simply by virtue of his birth but his extensive journalism, military service and senior position at Israel's highest level.
Dude Destiny is so pathetic. Levy is trying to get him to understand thos is about Justice. Destiny wants to recite dates and names. Hes turning into Ben Shapiro
Destiny agrees it is about justice. That’s why he shook his head in agreement when levy said it….he’s argued that it’s about justice for both sides many times. You are just ignorant of destiny’s actual argument
These two people sound fairly rational and intelligent.
This entire debate just kept reminding me of the idea that this conflict is about "peace vs justice"
But it's "justice" for something that happened 76 YEARS AGO... Meanwhile if your living in the present day and not the past then for the past 50 YEARS Palestinians have been attacking isreal first, look it up every major conflict between Israel and Palestine for the past 50 years has started with Palestinians attacking isreal
I'm glad Gideon made a public commitment on video to his delusional view of Israel. In 6 months there will be no new settlements in Gaza or Lebanon. A year from now viewers can come back to this video, see this comment, and determine who was right.
Remind me when that time comes
What if your wrong? Will you apologize? Will you admit you were wrong? Or will you continue eating up is-raheili propaganda as undisputed facts like destiny?
"Senior ministers call for new settlements in Gaza at ultranationalist conference
‘Taking territory’ from Palestinians is what ‘hurts them most,’ says Likud minister Golan, while far-right police minister Ben Gvir says Gazans should be ‘encouraged’ to emigrate'
the times of israel 21 October 2024, 8:22 pm
The way Levy talks makes it clear that you should listen to someone else on the topic. Regardless of what you know or don't or even what the facts are. So emotionally motivated and simplistic.
Right? Did he just make the same 2 arguments on repeat for over an hour? And they weren't even the good ones.
@@janeallgood9833How many arguments would you bother making about one of history's great atrocities?
Found the Trump fan
He is more informed than Destiny.
@@SuperKripke More than 2.
How does not giving equal rights to *non-citizens* make a country apartheid??
Because Israel has de facto governance over the West Bank and subject people who are born there to its laws, and yet denies them citizenship and equality rights.
Atrocious audio on both sides. Jeez lol
yeah I need to fix this
@@jakenewfield I am emailing you about an offer to fix it up for you for free.
I improved the audio. Here is the updated version: m.ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
Comment section is ridiculous.This was a good discussion.
what do you expect with destiny and DGG - it will always be skewed for Steven and bash the opponent. simple
@@nextingting it just sucks but yeah it's true
Too many are so lost in their partisanship. God knows what they'd think a good debate of Israel/Palestine looks like
As absurd as debates like this may seem on the surface, they serve to expose the irrationality of positions held by people like Gideon, especially when contrasted with the calm, sensible, and nuanced approach taken by Destiny.
Nuanced being "ethnostates are evil and wrong... except for that one."
illegal occupation
Fascists consider relative calm in the face of righteous indignation a victory until they lose the reigns and then all hell breaks loose for them. Don't believe me, just watch (or look through history)
@@PunkiBroosterya. Except for that to hold true, the indignation would have to be righteous. Toddlers throwing a tanty doesn't count.
is this a joke? Destiny has proven consistently he's incapable of consistent, levelled and malleable logic, like you are just inhaling his shaft and the coolade for free, just because he sounds coherent.
Destiny Right to return is INTERNATIONAL LAW and mentioned in the UN resolution 181. The same UN that partitioned PALESTINE and gave the majority of the land of PALESTINE to Israel and which the Israelis have trashed ever since. You need to read history pretty boy.
LMAO.
Why anyone is bringing on an ignorant grifter to debate the likes of Levy, is wild.
Destiny comes off as a wikipedia reader
there is absolutely no excuse for this audio quality
I fixed it. Here's the updated version: ua-cam.com/video/cMfVoBtGq1k/v-deo.html
The beach analogy is so garbage.....as if the land was crowded, and people just all came to the same square meter
Yes and as if there wasn't a war the Arabs started that caused the mass exodus of the Arabs.
How long do you think Israel will stay democratic if the Jews are a minority in the land? A single state solution, or a 2 state with full right of return, is not viable.
Right of return is ridiculous and should be ignored. What other country has allowed back those #displaced people who aligned with the attacking enemy? I favour former Ambassador David Friedman's #OneJewishState proposal. "Permanent residence status" with equal CIVIL rights should be given to the Arabs who live full-time in Judea and Samaria (leave Gaza for the moment). A pathway to full citizenship with NATIONAL voting rights should only be given after a qualifying period of time, maybe to the next generation of Arabs, providing they can pledge allegiance to the *Jewish* state of Israel. Israel can protect its Jewish "essence" by passing a law which requires a 90% majority vote in the Knesset to amend the 2018 Basic Law "Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People". If the fertility rate for Jewish women remains high, and the Muslim fertility rate reduces in line with education, I don't think demographics are that much of a problem. More Jews will make Aliyah and that should be encouraged. And the number of occupants in the disputed 'Palestinian' territories is probably inflated, to get more funding and propaganda power. Extending sovereignty over Judea and Samaria is certainly doable, I think. Any Arab who is still *hostile* to living in the Jewish state should be assisted by UNHCR to be resettled in one of the neighbouring Arab countries.
The second question is how long will the jews survive as a minority in the land when their enemies are committed to their total destruction. And the third question is which foreign countries are going to solve that emigration crisis, assuming there's any survivors
@@FishdawgZA: The Jews won't be a minority under the #OneJewishState proposal. Those Arabs who accept "permanent residence status" (without national voting rights) are better kept close at hand, rather than allowed to develop their own terror bases, as happened in Gaza. Egypt and Jordan only survive with financial help from the international community so they should be _encouraged_ to give citizenship to any existing 'Palestinian' refugees, and to those Arabs from the West Bank (aka Judea and Samaria) who request to return or move to those countries.
Destiny “Mr Bonnell” is wrong about apartheid being only racial . It can also be based on ethnic separation.
I had low expectations but this was actually great!
Gideon could try answering a question once in a while...
He never does
Never
He did, but you never want to hear these answers. You only want to hear the answers that fit your narrative.
@@MJMilano7 No, I want to hear the answers. Hence my comment...
@@Gertrude_Why he puts responsibility on Israel, that’s the answer
@@Dudemeister if that's the only answer then it's pointless debating
destiny questions literally got more ridiculously dumber One after the other, it’s like he kept on digging his own grave, you can literally see it in his lack of eye contact while asking questions 😂😂😂 minute 23 in the next few minutes, we’re the dumbest question that Gidon was losing his mind😂
Hearing constructive discourse after a long time. Thank you.
What about the poor Palestinians they are powerless farmers throwing rocks and have no shoes to wear? The Israelis are superpowers they are guilty of persecution they have all the power, they are stealing land that is not there.
There's gideon's entire argument.
Well you can't just blame Israel, the Arabs have been attacking them from day one. There's blame on both sides. There's Steve's argument.
Steven summed the situation up perfectly at 56:00
levy says, "it's not about peace it's about justice" it's like saying it's not about people having no money for food it's about the economy.
Peace cannot exist without justice.
Injustice can't be called peace in reality.
Destiny has said this exact quote multiple times and agrees with it. "Peace" can be an empty term; you can have "peace" by immediately surrendering completely to your enemy, but that's not always the desired outcome.
@@mahbubrm2148Yes it can
Speaking as a Hungarian who lives peacefully outside of Hungary because the borders moved and my family didn't
Why the F is Destiny talking? He just learned about this topic 9 months ago
The guy speaks with a lot of emotion, but doesn't really understand Destinys position.
Perhaps quite natural when Levy is Jewish and Destiny Catholic - one is born and live in Israel, the other has visit the area for 14 days. #ExperiencedReality
@@mlo3784 Pretty sure he's not Catholic, but regardless, his lived experience does amount give his opinion a certain amount of gravity. Although, there are just as many jews who have the complete opposite outlook from maybe a relatively similar lived experience, so we can only lend the vague "lived experience" of one man so much credence when we are speaking about large multinational issues.
@@davidcastillo7547what?
@@mlo3784yes, so Destiny can take a logical, pragmatic, disimpassioned approach based on research; while Levi's thinking is painted so much by a lifetime of emotion based on lived experience that he could never objectively analyse the situation. It has nothing to do with religion.
@@everybodygetalong 😂
All this talk about apartheid and then there is a problem with the settlements. What is wrong with the settlements becoming part of the Palestinian state? Do they not want Jews in their state?
Hahahaha 😂😂😂 ok sure. Let’s make the settlements a part of the Palestinian state under the plo. No more IDF protection
@@shaheerislam1059 Wont need protection when there is peace. If settlers dont like it, they can sell and move to Israel, after all Israel will still accept any Jews.
No they don't
@@thanatosdriver1938 Mmmmm I wonder who it is that really has apartheid?
@@moonants alright let’s be clear here if there is a party under apartheid it is the Palestinians
Gideon sounds like a child. He cannot address the arguments by Destiny.
he was expecting a virtue signal stand-off, that's why he didn't prepare a single argument
@@opensocietyenjoyer exactly right
projection at it's finest ur all children that worship the debatebro god
Nope... Gideon doesn't wish the best for everyone. Neither Israel, Palestine or anyone else including himself for that matter.
As an Israeli expat I'm very familiar with his 'work'.
He's sadly just a very disturbed individual.
A Chomsky - Finkelstein hybrid of sorts.
Revolutionaries for the sake of revolution.
As critical thinkers - history is our most powerful point of reference.
And in all recorded instances - revolutionaries for the sake of revolution ended in nothing but catastrophe.
Levy dodging answers to all the actual important questions posed by Jake
The Haaretz methodology is at stake
You're right. It's clear that he does not want to move away from the initial injustice caused to the Palestinians, and it was a powerful message. However, he will not convince many without a pragmatic approach to temper Palestinian expectations, as the die is already cast.
Gideon clearly says Israel does not have any intention of settling the dispute only settling settlers and keeping the embers burning. In this he is right. This idea that the other side has to be pragmatic (in a debate) and not the party that does not even consider the aggressor an agressor is the hypocristy. But too hard to parse for you guys I guess.
What question specifically
Thank you Gideon. I love your humanity. The other guys doesn’t know what he is talking about. Just blowing hot air.
Is Israel more secure now than a year ago?/ Obviously it is - have you forgotten what happened a year ago?
Terror attacks are up in Israel. It’s not safer than it was a year ago. Its safer than than it was during oct 7th I optics