A Steppe Too Far | BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD E22
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In today's documentary on the Battle of Stalingrad, we witness the beginning of the 2nd Kotluban Offensive, continued fighting inside the Grain Elevator, and Paulus making a mistake. We're also going to discuss why it is that the German attack bogged down BEFORE they even reached the city.
ERROR: The Soviet casualty numbers for the 2nd Kotluban Offensive are incorrect! It's quite complicated to explain why, so please see this addendum video for the correct numbers • The ACTUAL Casualty Nu...
And thank you to all of you who questioned me about this. When I went back and checked the numbers, I realized that the numbers were wrong. I'll be putting a warning up at the beginning of next episode too 👍
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⏲️ Videos EVERY Monday at 5pm GMT (depending on season, check for British Summer Time).
The MAPs for this series were created by Terri Young, and the video was edited by her too. Check out her website www.terriyoung...
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📚 BIBLIOGRAPHY / SOURCES 📚
The specific Battlestorm Stalingrad bibliography docs.google.co...
Full list of all my sources docs.google.co...
⚔️ If you like Stalingrad, you may also enjoy historian Anton Joly's UA-cam channel "Stalingrad Battle Data". Link: / @armageddon4145
If you'd like to learn more about the 64th Army, check out Dann Falk's book on the 64th Army, and his website here: falkenbooks.com/
Historian Jason D. Mark also has a website where you can purchase his books from : www.leapinghor...
Check out Egor Kobyakov's Stalingrad articles here - warspot.net/us...
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📽️ RELATED VIDEO LINKS 📽️
BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD S1/E1 - The 6th Army Strikes! • BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD...
The Battlestorm Stalingrad Series video playlist • BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD...
The Battlestorm Stalingrad Addendum video series • Battlestorm Stalingrad...
My “Why I'm Passionate about HISTORY and What Got Me Into it” video
• Why I'm Passionate abo...
History Theory 101 • [Out of Date, see desc...
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ABOUT TIK 📝
History isn’t as boring as some people think, and my goal is to get people talking about it. I also want to dispel the myths and distortions that ruin our perception of the past by asking a simple question - “But is this really the case?”. I have a 2:1 Degree in History and a passion for early 20th Century conflicts (mainly WW2). I’m therefore approaching this like I would an academic essay. Lots of sources, quotes, references and so on. Only the truth will do.
This video is discussing events or concepts that are academic, educational and historical in nature. This video is for informational purposes and was created so we may better understand the past and learn from the mistakes others have made.
ERROR: The Soviet casualty numbers for the 2nd Kotluban Offensive are incorrect! It's quite complicated to explain why, so please see this addendum video for the correct numbers ua-cam.com/video/e3RbcNbMUtk/v-deo.html
And thank you to all of you who questioned me about this. When I went back and checked the numbers, I realized that the numbers were wrong. I'll be putting a warning up at the beginning of next episode too 👍
I see you haven't made a visual annotation to the video, is this even possible after uploading it?
I'd say this mistake does justify replacing the video.
By uploading a new one and either by making it private or completely removing it.
@@voswouter87 Sadly UA-cam took the ability to make annotations away a couple years back. I've now added a 'card' to the video when I start talking about the numbers, linking to the Addendum video. And I've decided (for a few reasons) to point out the mistake at the beginning of the next video telling people to go to the Addendum video. I'm going to play it by ear, but if needed I will remove this one in the future.
I have found archive document about the losses of 24th Army (15.09 - 26.09). Cannot provide a link, because UA-cam seems to delete messages with such links.
(Killed; Wounded and Sick; Missing or captured)
396 rifle division 387; 1762; 34
49 rifle division 494; 2029; 185
231 rifle division 249; 1304; 29
233 rifle division 1587; 5097; 289
TIK have you seen this...ua-cam.com/video/_89Pf8bsMvQ/v-deo.html go to 59.40 and see a PAK 38 firing on the grain elevator
Greetings TIK! Seems like at 9:24 inscription should be "60 km - 37 miles in late August" - not late July. Btw, your Stalingrad series is awsome, really enjoy it!
That intro was so clean. LOVE IT!
Reminds me of some good old 90s style historic games like Red Baron II/3D in which nearly the entire in game interface was entirely done with chock boards, time tables, journals, books, paper works up the wazoo. Though I think Valkyria Chronicles 1 and 4 hit it out of the ball park. First game is based in a book written by one of the secondary characters a journalist, while the second is the personal journal of the protagonist. Everything including in game menus, music players, glossary, history, cutscenes, missions, everything is access through the fictional book by turning pages, skipping to chapters, it's done so beautifully.
Same, t looked amazing.
Absolutely! A very well done Intro! But he has to be carefull: Many People can not handle Facts and he had so many Notes at this Book.. :D
The intro. Pull the book, open it. And we dive right into the pages of history. 😎
That cut was tasty.
Was experimenting 😁
@@TheImperatorKnight I was wondering, did you do that yourself or have you found an awesome editor to do it for you?
Just gets better.
....a giant leap for mankind. Awesome!
@@TheImperatorKnight THis INTRO was awesome! Well done :)
Now that is a slick intro
You got a like and a satisfied “ooooh” for that cut TIK.
That 20 minute set up for the pun was genius...evil genius
YAS!! I laughed so long and hard.
i think i missed it
Finished school after a long day consisting of 2 essays and a history test, walked 2 miles home from the bus stop, made myself lunch (2 turkey sandwiches with Swiss cheese and Mayo) opened UA-cam and saw a new Battle storm Stalingrad video. It’s a glorious day.
Wtf, where do you live?
@@utvara1 probably in rural America
@@utvara1 in Russia or Austria probably
@@NikitaBaryshnikov95 My guess is he lives in the city of Rangpur, in the northern part of Bangladesh.
@@katkapsa5761 No I live in rural America it is 30 mi just to get on a Dog
He lives in the suburbs
I have to wonder about the Kotluban casualty figures. 80:1 is ridiculous, and losing 33% of your men in a single blunted offensive? This sounds hard to believe. Not just a matter of horrid tactics and callousness: soldiers don't keep charging into blazing machineguns after they watch the first wave get massacred.
I'd have to ask "is this really the case?". It would make a lot more sense if most of those casualties are minor injuries, or even just soldiers who rout but soon return to their units. Unless the bulk of the forces got cut off in a pocket... as it feels like soldiers were better off getting encircled than to be sent in at Kotluban.
Yeah, the numbers on that side being rounded off to the nearest thousand seems suspicious to me too. Do we not have Soviet casualty figures for that day? Surely they are more specific than that!
"I have to wonder about the Kotluban casualty figures. 80:1 is ridiculous, and losing 33% of your men in a single blunted offensive? This sounds hard to believe."
You're right to be suspicious about it. And everyone questioning me about this has made me double-check the numbers, which has led me into a rabbit-hole over the past couple of hours... I'll get back to you guys on this in the next Addendum video because things are complicated to say the least. I know I've made a mistake, but it looks like David Glantz has too
I've pinned your comment so people can see your questioning, and my response 👍
@@TheImperatorKnight sorry, that rabbit-hole expression got me confused twice this evening. what do you mean by saying "led me into a rabbit-hole?" i'm not a native speaker.
@@alexalexin9491 rabbit hole means that he got stuck probably in discordant sources and he didn't find any answer to the question.
I did urban training in the military as an Infantryman. It was shocking how quickly an entire battalion can be ground into nothing fighting for a few buildings.
how much men and equipment are needed to take one city block... like 3:1 and 5:1 or 2:1 and 1:1, in your opinion?
@@utvara1 Depends on many factors:
Equipment of the 'offender' (O), big positive factor,
Usability of the equipment for O, big negative factor (Having a thermobaric bomb is a great way to deal with the bastards, but pointless if you are not allowed to use it)
Equipment of the defender
Geography of the terrain
Integrity of the structures
Protections offered by the buildings (through some walls you could shoot with a rifle, for some you need a tank-gun)
Enviroment conditions
Morale
etc.
You could have a dude sneaking up during a moonless night and grenading a whole room with all of the people having dinner or you could have a company or a batallion at your disposal with some APCs against a bunch of idiots with AKs and RPGs, but who are located in a tough, tall house, in the firing arks of other friendly (to them) controlled buildings, meaning getting close to the target would be the equivalent of standing up in No Mans Land.
@@utvara1 A city block? Against an enemy with no training, equipment and only small arms we needed at least 4:1 based on my units experience in Iraq And Afghanistan. But there are a ton of factors like he mentioned above.
I can give you an example of training against another Army unit with similar equipment and training. 1 four story building held by 2 platoons (50-60 men) required a battalion of over 500 men to take. A lot (if not most) of the casualties were taken while trying to seize the stairways. Superior numbers or firepower means almost nothing in such a confined space.
@@utvara1 when we did we were taught a single house would be a platoon objective. So you can scale it up. 30ish men to take one house.
@@nottoday3817so lets say a small town of 10,000 that has about 1000 combatants out of whom 100 really know what they are doing. They have taken over their local armory and have mostly basic weaponry. Town is surrounded by plains on 2 sides, a forest on 3rd and hills on the last side.
That intro was unreal. Do more
"What's the status of the grain elevator comrade?"
"Ehh it goes up and down.."
I’m stuck in English class. Guess it’ll have to wait! BATTLESTORM JUST CAME ON!
It's not every day you read of someone ditching an English class for a history one. Well done, @TIK.
“I need your Panzers, your boots, and your motorcycles.” Good one TIK 😆 👏 👏
A platoon of KV tanks: "Im going through here, try to stop me."
Suprised Germans: "Id rather not..." XD
"I need your Panzers, your boots and your motorcycle" was all I need to see this night. I'm still cracking up.
Great job TIK!!!!
Your Stalingrad series is by far the best presentation of any military operation on YT, period. Damn
The name of my grandfather's cousin appears on the very first map...He didn't make it out of 1943. By this time the grandfather, having survived his splinter, was sent to run training courses in the deep rear.
What's the officer's name?
Those 3 kv1 going into a tour though the germans lines is hilarious
Just want to thank Anton Joly and Egor Kobiakov for their help with this series. If you haven't seen Anton Joly's channel, check out this link ua-cam.com/channels/Ik1QDvITjPOCsIRGGpSasA.html
And if you haven't read Egor Kobiakov's articles on the Battle of Stalingrad (including the new one on Pavlov's House) here's the link too warspot.net/users/201-egor-kobyakov/published
Lions led by donkeys!
Am I correct in reading this entire episode as: 'The Germans are having serious command & control issues"?
Thanks for the links! Always useful!
The intro was a good idea but badly executed.I prefer the old one.
@@Guilherme-ms3ub Don't worry, this was just a one-off
that intro is one of the most satisfying thing i've seen in my life
TIK stands supreme among WW2 documentary makers. These videos are absolutely essential viewing to anyone interested in the Battle of Stalingrad. Fantastic detail and as a result we have the chance to fully absorb this horrendous battle. Very well done sir.
Your production is becoming a visual treat :-)
The editing has improved, it feels very crisp and clean. Nice work
16:45. This is one of the things that I picked up from Glantz' Stalingrad books - the dilution of offensive power in the 6th Army and 4th Panzer Army. As the offensive progressed, more and more units had to be used to defend the flanks, meaning that fewer units could be concentrated to generate the local superiority of force required to create a substantial breakthrough. I found it fascinating reading how the German attacks gradually became weaker and weaker, as units were forced to defend more frontage, denying them the ability to concentrate enough armor and men to create a decisive breakthrough. The 6th Army from this point onwards starts to resemble an exhausted boxer, continually trying to land a knock-out blow, but lacking the strength to do so, while wearing themselves out by repeatedly throwing punches.
Yes grain Elevators tend to be robust.
Just look at the one in Beirut, at the epicenter of the explosion, it still stand to this day
One could say, the structure is still resisting!
That was bad, I'll get my coat.
being a german I already enjoy just based on the title you have chosen. 👍
Isaev said that the elevator was the major observation post for artillery correctors, so taking it was very important for Axis
Isaev is a Russian, so not reliable.
@@super-super- yea? Take a look at the book in the vid
@@evgenytarabrin3284 Why would I take a look at an unreliable source?
@@super-super- to check wthere its reliable or not
@@super-super- what is reliable for you then?
Every time you pop into frame, I think of it as a TIK in a box.
I don’t even know what to say here. Just want to thank you for the amazing work I’ve always been fascinated by the Eastern Front and I didn’t know much specifics about this battle. Thank you for the amazing works as always, Rommel is sending the panzer divisions on the hunt for the British armor in Battlestorm Crusader and Zhukov’s launching the 2nd Kotluban Offensive.
I think this episode signifies your coming of age as a historian, storyteller, and narrator. This episode is the most well-balanced of all, if not then one of the most well-assembled videos I've seen from you, and I offer you kudos.
I've been watching you since before the beginning of any of the Battlestorm series and being an amateur historian myself, I've learnt a lot from your excellent style which is one of true commitment to the classic historiographical way.
Look forward to more. Prost!
In regards to the Elevator fights, IMO it doesn’t really matter, if they fended off 10 attacks a day or 5, were there tanks or not.
One thing is certain that they stood under heat, running low on ammo, under artillery fire, and constant attacks, and fulfilled their task as good as they could.
Fending off one attack too many
Book intro = pure awesomeness. You'r nailing it with this video.
who ever thought of the book intro is worth weight in gold
This had to be the shortest 40 minutes I've ever watched. Now I have to wait ANOTHER 3 weeks. The goodness is over way too soon.
I recently watched a PolarFilm Docu about : Reichsbahn im Kriegseinsatz !
This Docu is focused on Ostfront, how they needed to adjust the Rails, Engineers rebuild bridges , ect.
And was amazed about how many trains and Bridges were wrecked because of Partisan attacks on the Eastern Front !
For example, over 9200 Locomotives were demolished.
More than 300.000 inf troops were killed.
In 1943, April 650, May 765, June 841 attacks on trains, even after German Army intensified hunting Partisans...One of the reasons Kursk Offensive failed according the Docu !
German Train logistic never got to use it's full capacity, I bet it never reached even 50% on the Ostfront, since Partisan's were already active in Poland.
So for Stalingrad, for the German Army, there must have been a lack of Vital re-enforcements ,in gear and ammo, by the way they were killing Soviet Soldiers, the Ratio 30.000 Casualties Vs 1000 Axis Casualties...
Thank You TIK, for another Great Battlestorm Series
I recommend the BATTLESTORM Market Garden to everyone!
Greetings !
Epic intro, 10/10
"A Steppe Too Far" -- that is a great mnemonic to remember this analytic point regarding of the battle.
Lunch time Monday has been made infinitely better since I found this channel
A Steppe Too Far - am I sensing the title of a book some day TIK?
I was preparing a sandwich and completely missed the intro until I saw the comments 😂
With so many books and memoirs of this battle this series is a brilliant way to truly understand what happened during this epic fight.
@37:37 LOL at the Terminator 2 reference! Love these little gems that you drop in the text bubbles!
Great content as always TIK! Any chance in the future you could make a video on the overlooked Battle of Caen? Doesn't recieve nearly as much attention as the Omaha beach landings sadly, but with your skill and knowledge i'm sure you could come up with it and bring it out to the limelight.
As an American who's fed up with the overabundance of Hollywood i've always wanted to see the British and Canadian side of the war during 1944. Even they deserve our respect since they along with the Russians had been in this war longer than us and fought just us hard.
Agree with your opinion about Caen. The battles fought in northern France (after D - Day) were some of the fiercest of the war against Nazi Germany in the west.
@@charlesmaeger6162 Yup British and Canadians had to contend with 8 Panzer divisions and 3 heavy tank battalions.
Another masterful video. Your careful examination of available information and the cross checking of information by other historians is excellent! Bravo!
What a beautiful and smooth intro.
Love that intro, Hollywood take notes
TIK says we have gone a Steppe Too Far. Me: (stares in Sean Connery mode)
Two steppes forward to the Urrals and over.
I think the 2nd Kotluban offensive shows that by this point, the Wehrmacht was still a very capable fighting force by this stage of the war. Losing 88000 men for no gain on a single day is excessive, even for the Red Army. Keep in mind that by this point, the war has been on for over a year, yet the Red Army hadnt mastered the concept of combined arms warfare yet. From this point of view, Mansteins opinion about the possibility of forcing a stalemate on the Eastern front in 1943 is much more understandable.
At 18:17 you finally said what I was screaming inside my head, lol. Yup, it was that back-and-forth shuffling of the 4th Army by an intervening hitler that is to blame. For once Halder and the rest werent just covering their butts in their memoirs. He really DID spoil the soup. BTW, I love your punny title.
You are so learned, well informed and such a polished speaker that it's hard to find fault with your series. I think your love of detail has brought you to a mastery of your subject, but I think I'm not alone in suggesting that sometimes you skip over some detail in the interest of brevity. For example in your discussion of the furious fighting for the grain elevator you carefully explained the discrepancies in the eyewitness accounts. I would have been happy simply with "A few Russians low on ammo and water held off several German attacks." This is an important contribution to the history of WWII.
God the amount of time and research you put into this has to astronomical... and it shows. This is incredible as always TIK. Thanks for the hard work!
Damn, that intro was smooth!
That intro with the book makes a very nice touch ,absolutely belting videos most detailed I've ever seen ...
Ever thought of doing a TV programme similar to Al Murray's D day to Berlin ,but Russian front Dubno/ Brody to Berlin.
Never seen another series as good/detailed as
this.
I love the way you open the book up at the start TiK :)
That intro was so cool. Also thank you for this documentary!
Great recap, really helped me straighten a few things in my mind. So I am happy you made a video not about tanks this week. However moving forward..........
your one million dollar voice makes that serie even more fascinating! you've managed to reach the perfection
Dang the intro was slick!
thanks for everything you've uploaded on your channel, it's a true contribution to humanity
Your Steppe Too Far thoughts were very interesting on the reasons for the slowdown. Thanks for posting.
The start was amazing bravo 👏
Thank you for giving a general summary of events so far to put what is happening 'now' in mid September into context! Both sides have fought hard, suffered, made mistakes, and achieved some remarkable victories. Nevertheless, the net 'energy' or 'momentum' in the strategic picture is nearing 'zero'. Fascinating! And oh the many assumptions to assume! What a series of subtle yet impressive mysteries in the nature of warfare...
I just watched this for the second time. It really is a well reasoned analysis.
Big fan of that intro and your analysis, especially on the strategic overstretching. Strong ep
Good that we have you here TIK.
Such a nice surprise when these drop.
Awesome again TIK. I like how you took a step back and showed the gains in the recent past in review. It helped put things in perspective regarding time.
Magnificent work TIK. Honest fact finding helps future generations to understand WW2's massive battles, especially from the Soviets accounts. Thanks for what you do.
I vote for the episode’s number being at the front of the title.
133 tank brigade glorious maneuver appreciation thread
Been looking towards this for the whole of April!
Buttery smooth transitions
Hi TIK, I recently bought the book '' When titans clashed '' and went to see some of your videos to check out the sources (as much as I trust you, it's always good to check)
but then, in your video ''The Red Army Air Force in the First Days of Operation Barbarossa'' in minute 4:12 you mention that 76 airfields were hit (and use what I imagine is '' P44 '' page 44)
unless it is a different version of the '' Revised and expanded edition '' there is nothing on page 44 to talk about it and on page 57 it says that 66 airfields were hit
I believe it is a small mistake in this part, but I may have been mistaken
Thank you in advance
You are correct. It looks like I made a typo, putting "76" in my notes rather than "66" and then put the wrong page reference in the video. I can confirm that on page 57 it says 66. Thank you for pointing this out!
Hey TIK, late comment to your magnificent work, and epic History series.
Loved your diving into the pages of history intro. Really like it and maybe an interesting intro thing to your future videos.
This step back episode of the Stalingrad series is really good.
Seeing the overhaul situation, and the condition of the Wehrmacht as well as the Soviets.
I suspect we can going to be seeing some interesting changes on both sides, and some interesting moments as well.
Chuikov is a favourite General of mine, and it will be interesting not see how his Corp, (which is what his army is really at the moment IMO) holds out against the diluted strength of one of Germany's best Army's, and it's crack Divisions.
A Steppe too far! epic line, well done TIK, this is one of your best vids so far.
I hope someday you make a video of Chuikov, how he goes from 64th army at the Don to Berlin in 45
It would be interesting to have some information about Stalingrad at that time. Who lived and worked there, what were the different buildings and city districts etc.?
Wake up babe, a new Battlestorm Stalingrad episode just dropped🙏
It is breath taking how fast the german army deteriorated, from a juggernaut in 1941, to only able to offensively supply 1/3 of its forces in the Eastern front in 1942 and then to only able to supply a couple of armies for an offensive at Kursk in 1943. And they still kept going for two more years.
Excellent episodes, best ever seen! Don’t stop TIK, this is great work!
Oh hell I am current with this series! Binge watched in a long week!
Get notification-make sure I have no distractions for 42 minutes, get dinner-full screen, thank you TIK for another great video.
I'm a simple man. I see a new TIK video, I press like.
great video, as always! I know this is still far in the future and might be a stretch: an ancestor of a friend of mine died on the 4.10.1942. It's said that it was near something named orlovka or near some kind of meeting point of two small streams or something along that line. could you please talk about the 94th german infantry division or even the 274th infantry regiment on that day? would mean the world to him since that part of family history got lost over the years. thank you for this detailed video series!
Orlovka is a minor settlement in Volgograd. There are streams and ravines there as well
@@МихаилЧерников-п2т thx do you happened to know if the 94th division was there on that day?
@@monkeymeier4811 sadly, no. I only know the place and it’s terrain
So many of these Soviet counter attacks can be summed up by that one line by Clint Eastwood in The Good, the Bad & the Ugly. I've never seen so many men wasted so badly.
Thanks TIK!!! Your battlestorm video-series' always lets me learn new interesting things! Absolutely love the Stalingrad-Battlestorm. I always drop everything I am doing o watch it!
Absolutely the best and well researched video. Thanks for bringing more clarity on the causes of events
Great episode Tik! As usual. Nice explanarion about a possible tactical mistake taken by Paulus, but I honestly think, all and all it was an step too far as you point out. All toguether with the main reason of stretch too thin in a too long front. Any case by coming back to the Hiwis. Can be possible than the first line of defender Germans was Hiwis? That could be partially explaining their really low number of casualties despite losing several km of ground and needing to counterattack several times? Because is quite surrealistic the number, despite is a fact their report for asking more German soldiers. Thank's for all to you and your friends helping you in narrate as best as possible such a tragedy.
Hi Tik, we shouldn't forget, we are talking about 42 their best tank for counterattack was the PzIII 50mm, that's a short range weapon, less than 500m for efectively penetrate T34 and Kv. The PzIV F2 was a rarity and due to their need of mobility, because it was an ofensive weapon not like the later ones, it was not well armoured. The 88mm wasn't capable the change well it's position. It was deployed mostly for defense or for support the attacks out of the range of the Russian tanks. Just for conclude I suggest to you and your friends to take a look to other battles and search for penetrations on the defensive German lines about 3km. Just take a look to the reported casualties in several of them and perhaps to mark an average. Kind regards and thank's for all.
I just started watching this series couple days ago. I didnt think i would need to wait for next episodes 😂
Great video. Thanks for all the effort you put in to creating these videos.
Detailed and yet concise analysis as always. I think this adds to the scholarship of the battle
TIK you outdid yourself with that intro. Your series are superior by far!
15:58 whew!! What a remarkable insight! Remarkable mainly for the fact I've never heard this piece of info before. It all seems obvious, now. Thanks, TIK! (..and, apparently, David Glantz - I wish I'd kept studying this battle after I left graduate school.)
Wow, how do the Soviets lose 80,000 men in one day and still be able to maintain a line afterwards :0
Keep in mind those were casualties, not dead. But yeah, I find those numbers kind of hard to believe.
@@Comradez When do you count a soldier wounded as a casualty though? I mean during that time a slight wound probably wouldn't get a soldier off the lines. If casualty means only death, missing, capture, desertion, and incapacitating wounds, then did they lose 80,000 men?
Even a light wound which would require a few days to recover would be counted as a casualty. That soldier has been put out of the line
@@caelestigladii 2 wounded men = 1 dead men so that may be the case also.
TiK pinned a comment about losses - there is some kind of mistake, because numbers are way to high.
Amazing intro! Thanks for all the work you put in your videos.
Stalingrad: Watch your Steppe
Stalingrad: Stepp'ing across the line
Stalingrad: The Final Goose Steppe
Always interesting, TIK. Thanks for posting. I enjoy the series and look forward to each new reveal.
I'm giving a like on this video for that smooOooth intro edit. Nice~