I want to be unique! That's why i ordered myself a Carvin DC800 and asked 500 people on sevenstring about what they picked, so i can be just as unique as they are.
Here's my two cents about it. It's kinda about the music you listen and they way you want to make music yourself. If you listen to older bands and all you want to do is to take their sound and give a bit of your take on it, then you won't inovate much, but that's okay, because that's kinda the point. The inovation will come in the form of a "fine tuning" of the sound you want. Kinda like you're picking up where they left of and try to improve on what they did. Kinda like what happened when Pantera brought huge and thick breakdowns to the mainstream. The evolution of that sound was pretty much finding ways to make it heavier. Now the breakdown itself evolved from a simple section of a song to (in some cases) "the main event" and it sounds bigger and thicker than Pantera ever dreamed of. The problem with this is that a lot of bands just try to push the gimmick a step further (like just heavier and bigger breakdowns) , instead of adding something different to it so the whole thing becomes so condensed that one can get easily tired of it. On the other hand you might be like me, and enjoy listening to older music and constantly think "This is awesome! How can I fuck this up?". So the whole process on which you inovate is by seeing rules and conventions in the music you hear and purposely trying to break them. A lot of noise rock and math rock bands did this type of thing. They tried to take their classic rock or punk influences to a "place" where they didn't have much rules regarding tone, melody or rhythm. Now this type of approach might sound more inventive, but the problem here is that a lot of great ideas are never developed beyond their initial stage, because they are just ditched by the newer bands in turn of making their sound different. In the end, if you feel there is hasn't been much of a guitar evolution latelly, maybe you are just listening to a lot of bands that fall into the first category. I my case, I would actually love to hear more current noise/math/post-hardcore bands sounding just a bit closer to the bands of the late 80's early 90's, despite the fact that the genre now is more diverse than ever. So it's all a matter of prespective I guess. Cheers!
Evolution is a slow process. Similar to my beard growing ability. It's tough when an amp or "sound" had such an influence on generations (or an era, or a genre.) Molded "legends". Not only to we fight change, that change could go against a specific icon (and everything that defines them). Tough to chip away at that. Egos are as demanding as toddlers.
Someone once said (and I believe it was pertaining to synthesisers actually) that nothing gets old faster than a new sound. As guitarists, we've basically come to an unspoken agreement that there are a very few select number of tones that would be considered standard. Clean, crunch, distortion etc. A very few standard number of modular effects, wah, chorus, tremelo etc (plus reverb and delay of course). The standard variations in pickup type and pickup selection, and the minute variations that different makes and models offer on those tones. Anything outside of that is considered "experimental" and almost esoteric So despite the fact that these days you can make a guitar sound like pretty much anything you want, most people still want them to sound like guitars, and have a very traditional opinion on what that is. It's pretty difficult to sell them on anything else.
Spiritledd Ray Foster Sorry but have you heard the Korg M-1(90ies), the Nord Lead 3(21st century) or the Access Virus? To name just a few monumentally good synths? As far as guitars this guy makes a point; seen from a keyboards perspective guitarists are incredibly conservative. And I should know; I have played keyboards since I was 7 years old and I now play electric guitar, Not that it is always a bad thing to be conservative in your preferences of course, 99 % of everything is crud and that also goes for guitar gear. He said while strapping on his Fender Tele... :)
Rob Baartwijk Lol nice one. Yeah the point about sounds though, even synth sounds is that there are certain classic pads and waves that have been widely adopted and will always be used. But a great many that you'll hear on maybe one or two records and then never hear again. There is now very much a standard stable of classic guitar tones. Anything outside of those is unlikely to be widely or consistently used. I'll pluck an example out the air. Tom Morello guitar solo on Killing In The Name Of. Hugely popular track, using some sort of pitch shifter (not entirely sure what) on the guitar solo. He certainly wasn't the first to use one and other guitarists do use 'em too of course, but how often? Despite the popularity of the track, and indeed him as guitar player, It's still an unusual esoteric sound, that would be considered far more experimental than standard.
After looking at the comments on this video and listening to it, I feel grateful in a sense for knowing next to nothing about guitars and amps, or at least anything people seem to wonder about. I bought my first and only amp a little less than a year ago at a pawn shop for $15 and have "learned" to use the knobs somewhat to make the amp sound how I want it to. I'm just saying if you have something and it works for you, I think that's all you should really need. (I'm sure many of you would say the same thing, but I'm just coming from a POV of someone who has the absolute bare minimum)
I met Reinhold Bogner a few years ago. He said guitarists tend to shy away from his less mainstream innovations. You hit the nail on the head with this video.
Hey Fluff, I know this video is old. It just randomly popped up into my feed. I've always enjoyed your content, but I wanted to say thanks for making me laugh today. I was having a tough day today and this video helped make my day much better. Thanks!
This is actually really interesting to me. I come more from the synth world and I've recently started trying to learn how to play guitar, just as a new writing tool, and something that will allow me to branch out from just electronic music. I haven't purchased anything yet, just using my dad's acoustic to get into it, but I've been looking around just to see what's out there, and it feels like you have to dig quite deep to get away from the Les Paul, Strat, etc, remakes that are everywhere or at least influence a design. With synths, everyone wants to be moog, arp or korg (for example), so I decided to build a modular system that gave me the freedom to pick and choose my sounds from many smaller manufacturers, many of which started off as boutique guitar pedal makers. I'm really interested in figuring out what's different in the guitar world when I actually get to making purchases, because I would really like to craft my own sound, rather than pick a set of well regarded pedals and call it a day. I really want to find a nice hollow or semi hollow body that can be used in a bunch of crazy ways and maybe see if any of those boutique makers still do guitar pedals that I can grab. It must be out there, but unfortunately is not always going to be easy to find.
I totally agree, this is one of the reasons why I bought a BOSS MO-2 pedal, it is a completely new sound and I wanted to try something that would stretch my playing into new sounds.
The point of amps, effects, etc. is to color your sound in a way that adds to the atmosphere/feel of a piece of music. When finding our sound, we do a lot of things "just because," without asking whether it is necessary or if there is a better alternative that complements the work. We've created all these preconceptions of how things have to sound, and gear that we have to use to achieve it, and we've severely limited our palette. For instance, a recording musician may always think "Which amp or amp sim should I use for this song?" Never "Should I use an amp in this song, or color the sound of my electric guitar in some other way?"
You know what is missing from the market? Improved analog, solid-state amps. These days it seems like your options are digital/modeling, or tube. However, I think Peavey makes some, Randall makes some, and Marshall tried to with the MG series (Marshall dropped the ball after the first generation of those). Tubes are great...if you don't mind dragging them around and have the time/money to maintain them. However, I think a good analog solid-state amp would be something I'd like to see. I think it is possible for a well designed solid-state to sound pretty darn good. ...of course the key word being "well designed," and I think there is significant room for improvement there.
I can vouch for the CR120. I personally own the amp and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. The clean channel even breaks up if you turn the channel volume up just like a valve amp!
Totally agreed. Just to get an amp with 3 channels (clean, crunch, metal) is like asking for too much too often. And then you get the crowd that thinks your amp needs "mods" to sound good, or needs certain Celestion speakers that cost $100+ each for a speaker. Or needs a tubescreamer to sound better. Or a spring reverb sounds better than a digital (not true in my opinion) That and everyone seems to be chasing iconic tones, but amps fall short. And if they do one thing well, then they aren't versatile enough. The kemper could be a dream come true if I could really simulate all the tones one looks for. As Far as stuff being the same - I have a Marshall MA50 and a Traynor YCV40. Amps with different voicings to be true. Different Cabs. But both are 2 channel amps with a boost feature, exactly same number of tubes, and exactly same issues (not tight, buzzy, volume control issues, and doesn't have enough tubes for high gain). How many amps are sold with 2 channels and a useless "boost"? Why do I have to get a JVM if I want 4 channels and not just a cheap DSL to get 4 sounds out of an amp with a foot switch? The Peavey xxx/jsx / Bugera 333/xl and The blackstar HT-5 seem like the most innovative amps I have. They both do "More" than the typical amp, and the HT-5 does more with less. But they are still just modding Leo Fender's and Jim Marshall's technology The ultimate problem is people keep buying "more of the same" so the manufacturers keep making "more of the same." What I'd really like to see is a JVM like amp that will do fender clean, marshall clean, say JMP 2203 crunch, and totally modern metal tones that defy characterization. But this will never happen from any company like Marshall or Mesa because they are too wrapped up in selling their "signature sound" but just end up sounding like generic imitations of their past selves.
I think the reason why you see the same repackaging is partially because it's familiar, but more likely because everyone is still searching for that "perfect sound". The AxeFx and the Kemper are steps in the right direction but they both take a lot of time, effort and sound engineering to get the perfect tone. It's far easier to rely on the 4 channels you know and love (or something similar) than to try something new
Guitarists are generally a very conservative bunch, still playing guitars designed by Les Paul and Leo Fender 60 years ago. Imagine if we were still driving cars that looked 60 years old. We have all the electronics and technology to make our guitars sound like anything but we have the iconic look and sound wired into our brains from years of Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Van Halen, Stevie Ray, Gilmour, Dimebag, Satriani, Vai ad infinitum. Until someone comes up with a new sound and makes it popular (to be copied) we aren't gonna change, not in a hurry anyway. cheers.
Cars are still evolving. The push bike on the other hand reached it's perfect form many years ago and anyone from 100 years back would have no problem with a modern one. All that's really changed is the materials they're made from. The guitar reached it's perfect by 1960 and everything since has been a copy of or tinkering with the hardware. The point is, no point in trying to re-invent the wheel. Oh, they've tried: the Chapman stick, the skeleton guitar etc. Yeh, we're all breaking down the doors of the store to get those baby's!!
johnnywebb And the people that are innovating are charging thousands on thousands of dollars for their creations, not really conducive to perpetuating widespread innovation.
Ian McBryde Yes, the Fractal Axe FX II is what many guitarists would like to have but here in Australia they cost several thousand dollars. It used to be having a good amp and a couple of pedals, now it's amp modelling, computers, 6000 patches and a vast array of pedals, all chasing that elusive tone - and that's just bedroom players.
I totally agree with you and i think amp/guitar companies need to branch out and bring new designs (with meaning/a point) to the world of guitar. But as a community we need to let these companies know this and support them for doing this.
Great video. I think the topic is totally spot on. I have found that that musicians are far more suspicious of change than other groups. It might be because music is so tied up with emotion and harder to define. You can't argue with a performance product for a car that produces a measurable result, but you can, relatively unchecked argue that a conventional bridge has a better 'feel' to it. The problem tends to be that conventions become mantras. Guitarists fear new things because they challenge all of the preconceptions they've taken as fact and think that innovation will devalue what they have / like. As has been pointed out, there are very few fields outside of music where unmodified 60+ year old designs are considered the apex. Sure, an LSX is based (in some ways) based on a small block, but no one is racing an original 265 at a competitive level. But god help you if you say anything is 'better' than an all original 59 burst or an original Nocaster.
Being that I can't afford much gear, I like to go with what I know is good. I like to find out what guitarists' tones I like best and find out what gear they use. To me, too many options can be overwhelming, however I do enjoy seeing new innovations in guitar simply because I love guitars and just looking and reading about gear. Even if I can't afford them, things like the Evertune and the Axe-FX and Kemper excite me just because they're so cool.
Great, great work. We have a lot to learn from our friends bass players, their market is a lot more innovative and open minded, we have to shake out our prejudices!!!
I think you are definitely right in that our set ways have made it so new ideas have trouble getting off the ground. It has also made it so the innovative ideas (AxeFX, Kemper, Evertune, etc.) are very cost prohibitive because they have to turn enough profit to stay in business. I know that I would love to have all of those items, but there's no way I could hope to afford them. On the other hand (at least when looking at amplifiers), there are only so many ways you can set up a group of electronics components to actually amplify the signal in a way anybody is going to want to hear. It's a little hard to imagine what the next innovative step is when we are happy with the sounds that we are getting.
Spot on. Show a guitarist a new amp or a new guitar shape and the immediate response is usually "my Marshall or vintage blah blah blah" and there's an immediate shooting down of new stuff. Or if you're having trouble recording, get on a forum and you'll be guided towards a JCM800 and Shure SM57.
People, not just guitarists, are afraid of change by nature. Now, as I've only been playing for 2 years and 3 months, I'm still trying to whittle down what I like in not only a guitar, but tone-wise as well. It's hard to play "new" and "off-the-wall" designs where I live, though. So, in essence, I'm being starved of new ideas. Feel as though I'm a developing mind that's only being allowed to read from 5 different books, even though I'm in a library.
I don't listen to djent that much, but I have some respect for Misha Mansoor for the exact reason of innovation. His rhythm tone and mentality towards it isn't something I've seen before. I.e. his noise gate-tube screamer combo that gets that stupid tight staccato rhythm tone.
Hey ! I totally agree with the lack of innovation in guitar shapes, most of the guitars sold around the world are based on the exact same shapes (strats, tele, SG, led Paul) which is sad, considering that many brands likes Brice, Agile, Fernandes, Etherial and others are really working on new concepts, new microphone types, fanned frets etc. And to me, they should have a lot more visibility in guitar shops all over the world...
I think part of it is that many people are fine tuning what they like. When there were less products around, anything that did something new was exploring a lot of sounds. So much has been explored that a lot of the new stuff doesn't provide as many "usable" sounds. They might be able to do a lot of really cool "niche" tones, but people on a budget are looking to buy into instruments and gear that will do most of the things they want and rely on creative playing and use of that gear to get the "niche" stuff. I think the best gear will get you many different sounds without having to use a different pedal, guitar, or amp for different songs, groups, etc.
We just like certain tones. Once you find the "perfect clean" or "perfect crunch" or "perfect metal distortion", you don't need anything new. I'm not saying we have found them and it's a lot about personal preference. But it's kind of the same as in the violin world - the violin everybody compares everything to is Stradivarius. Same with the crunch tone in the guitar world - it's the Marshall crunch that everybody compares everything to. Marshall is the sound a guitar crunch is supposed to sound like and Stradivarius is the way a violin should sound like. Also about that "5150 was based on SLO, etc" thing... That's called development. Just try finding something that isn't based on anything. You can't find it. It's the same in music styles. Death metal was "based on" thrash that was based on heavy metal that was based on rock that was based on blues. And death metal sounds way different than blues, just like a 5150 sounds way different than Fender Bassman. That's how things develop. You don't just go and invent new things. If people had jumped straight from blues to death metal, nobody would listen to death metal because it would have very little in common with all the other stuff - it would sound too strange. Development is slow. You can go and start playing with random tones and try to find something new. And I would say there are new tones too. For example djent tone - that's pretty new. When times change, trends change and we come up with new sounds.
Just my personal opinion, obviously. There isn't much new because what is really left to do and/or change when it comes to the actual gear itself? Most high end guitars will play the way most experienced guitarist want it to play. The rest is up to the guitarist and his/her opinion of what guitar, and their differences, plays slightly better, or is meant for their style of playing. As far as amps go, I mean the tones are so good already, because there are some killer amps out there. (Engl, Peavey, Rhodes, Laney, etc.) Yes, I am a metal guitarist. But, my point is, why fix whats not broken? How far can you tweak a distortion or overdrive tone? you either saturate until you cant even hear the notes and attack because the mids are scooped and non existent or you push the mids and crank your tube amp, blah blah. Either way, whats left to change? Evertune is on the right path to design something that hasn't been done, but that's just a bridge. Designing a whole new guitar or amp, that's not based on anything that has already been done? That would be mind blowing. As much as I would love to get one. I don't think we can picture what would actually be so different that It changes the way we think about amps, guitars and tones. But im rambling, I need a beer, and to research and learn some more sh1t.
Great point made Ryan Another good example is the 'tubes are better than transistor. period.' thing. I mean sure tubes are amazing but transistor/modeling is getting real damn close and is capable of a way bigger variety of tonal differences. Another one is when i show the strandberg design to other guitarists they usually tell me it's horrible. Just. Because. It's. Different.Open up your minds people (though most people who are watching this are probably a bit more open minded already haha)
An often overlooked problem is that people look at classic bands and think that the gear made the sound, but it is in actuality the skill of the player. I think that every musician experiences his/her sound getting better by getting better on their instrument. Also a lot of people listen with their eyes... and if everybody tells them tubes are the way to go, they will believe that tubes are the way to go. A problem with new gear(modelling tech in this case) though is that they focus to much on quantity and forget that people love ease of use, nobody likes to menu dive like crazy, thats why digital stuff would catch on way better if the controls felt more analogue. A good way of getting around the problem are things like the boss me-70/80 where the sounds are digital but the controls are like on a regular stompbox.
totally agree. you always need a reference to judge something. yesterday i played the kemper....f***ng huuugee man, blew my mind. when i have the money, i´ll get one. when playing live I always think of "dude, you gotta minimize your stuff carrying to the gigs..." and digital innovation is the solution. wait a lil bit more and the quality will be overwhelming
Something we must not forget is that music is Art. What makes a tone and a song unique is the Player. But I agree. What mainly changed is the tools sounding the guitarist world. Was talking with a sound tech once and he told me how a pain in the ass it was just to record musique properly.
I think that people want to sound like(or similar) to their favorite bands so they tend to buy the amps(or amps that sound like) that their favorite bands use
I think the problem goes also with what's popular. You see your favorite rock star playing your fav song and you want that sound. So you go to get the gear they have. There are lots of cool ideas with modeling and hd effects. But like you said they are all based on stuff we already have. I say we start running some guitars through analog synths.
Hi Fluff, I am a guitar player too, and I definitely agree with you, even if I play guitar I don't like guitar player's average way of thinking, because as you said, everybody is swimming in the mainstream of past great amps sounds and so on. I'm not saying they're not good, but everybody stayed locked for years on basically the same amps and sounds...and this slowed down evolution, definitely. Now I'm playing live with amplitube 3 with the Stomp i/o interface, and i would look forward maybe to buy a Kemper in the future, I think that's something awesome. I like all music genres, and especially rock and metal, but I think that the metal scenario is less in evolution, the band that I think actually is making the bigger innovations nowadays isn't a metal band, and it is Muse. Just to make an example, the Midi touch controller linked to a kaoss pad or a whammy and the Fernandez Sustainer on Matt Bellamy's guitar and the Kemper amp for Chris Wolstenholme's Bass for the distortions, and also the Misa Kitara. Greetings from Italy... Nice Beard by the way...
I agree, guitarists are very scared of change. Even when i was just something copying what we already know, people were scared of that, especially digital recreating analog, but this is even more of a point that I overlooked. There has been some times when I wanted to check out new sounds, and even sometimes made or applied ones that weren't specifically for guitar. I've done stuff like use wave shapers to make a very unique sounding distortion, or use weird bit crusher type effects to get new sounds and it's pretty entertaining and nice to mess with, but the fact is that a lot of companies won't really push to do that if they don't know if it'll make money or not. What does make money are those lower costing copies of already established gear.
Yes! Very true. I was thinking the same thing. All the bands I know. Have 5150's of some sort, with a mesa cab. And the and same accessories. Couldn't have worded it better. Thanks for your review on the Orange Cr120h this head is killer!
There are some really cool amps out there with original designs and sounds. I own a Hughes and kettner tubemeister 18 and it's got a sound all its own. The cleans aren't quite fender cleans and the drive isn't Marshall but it does sound like something new. But it does seem like there are too many clones and not enough original designs out there. It can get pretty ridiculous with price as well. I remember seeing a fender Princeton clone on reverb for $5000.
So my wife and i have been watching your videos for the last hour or so, and as we are both multi-instrumentalists. we love your insights,thoughts and questions. On this one, i would have to agree. I have actually come to a bizarre point gear wise personally for my guitar rig, That is that i play a few different styles of music and sometimes they blend. I play in a worship based band(more just at point of tube breakup stuff) heavy delays/reverbs and stereo rig. however I also play deathcore/experimental metal/hardcore stuff. The problem is, I cant find A singular amp that i like for both main music styles, and to my knowlege no one makes it (aside form say an axe fx,kemper etc) I need one to go balls to the wall fullbore metal, and the other to be chimey and bright (vox,matchless,65 esque) But i want that in the same package so i dont have to have 3 amps sitting arround. The other innovation commercially i have seen lacking (guitarcenter,musicians friend etc) is a true stereo full amp ( 2 imputs,2 outputs preamps etc) in one package. If i could get an amp that was True stereo, had the ability to go from vox chime to ripping your face off i would buy it in a heartbeat. but i cant find it for the life of me
I don't think that we've slowed necessarily. I think that the general music community has done as it always has, conformed to the popular sound (all music genres included with some exceptions that go without saying). You take a rock tone of the 70s; they all sounded similar. You take the metal tone of 80s; they all sounded similar. The same with the rock tones of the 90s, Nu Metal tones of the early millennia and the current djent tones now. I'm in total agree that we stick to our comfort zones way too much that it's very predictable. New products are definitely out there, it's just up to us to use them. Of course this is all just my opinion and I could be wrong and everyone has free will and all that crap. BUT the reality is, we tend to follow trending things. What we need is more known players to demo and bring NEW and Different products to us. Good topic of discussion Fluff
Ugh.................. Damn you for making me realizing that I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. All of my guitar endeavors are in pursuit of a more vintage tone, but trying to use it to create something new. Maybe I'm going the wrong direction. xS
With Guitars it comes down to how it fits with me. I do try to get my tone for whatever I am doing "based" on a tone in my head, that is "based" on a tone that some one else had. Amps are the one part of the guitar chain that makes the biggest difference. Having said that. Amps are where the evolution of tone will revolve around. For more practical reasons then anything. Modeling amps revealed to guitarist their need for an amp that can cover a ton of tones. For cover bands, the bedroom, originals But guitarist will drop an amp that does not "feel" or nail their perception of what is needed for them to have their own tonal nirvana when performing or recording consistantly. If they are not inspired by what they hear, they don't feel inspired. Find me a vintage Line 6 Flextone or Axsys that someone cannot live without in the music industry It seems like Kemper and Fractal have both found something that is reaching the players. But it has been a mixed bag. Because they cost a lot. Sure they are a bargain for all that you get compared to the 3 channels you get on a boutique amp of the same cost. But with the shrinking pay on gigs and the increasing percentage that the management takes (if you have that) along with the sky rocketing cost of fuel and lodging, on top of competition to get the better paying gigs. the cost is still to high for many. And for the guy/gal that is aspiring/starting out, on the low wages of today? The idea that guitarist are holding back innovation is limited, to me. And is market and economic manipulation of the guitarist more so. The ingredients are important to tone. But...... Most amps are either all tube or solid state these days. The "hybrid" amps use a single tube usually in a pilot light fashion many times to sell more low cost easily assembled higher profit products, with obsolescence already built in. But some companies I believe are already doing something new. Hughes & Kettner,for example, have done some interesting things with the Meister amps. Some good ideas. And the Grandmeister 36 looks really innovative. It has real tubes that do what real tubes are supposed to do. They have diodes/FETs (solid state stuff) that do what they do best. At half the price! And better yet? They do the direct output amazingly well. H&K have a little impulse response that you download to record these things with a more live recorded amp feel. You can dial the tones up that are "like" the standards and in between. I don't have one. But I have played one, Tubemeister 36. I am blown away by the package and convincing nature of that line. Crushing a bit maybe. But I will continue to use my Lee Jackson (Based on a modified Marshall) XLS-1000 head and an IR for now. Because of....income. You can never have to many toys. But if I were in the market for an amp, I would be looking at the H&K Meisters or similar form someone. But I believe they are the first so far with the features and power scaling they have. Its the most forward thinking innovation I have seen so far. I am sure more companies will jump at that combination as guitarist discover and grasp it. You have already hit on the newest pickup innovations with Lace. And It looks like Fishman is offering something new too, maybe. If it is a "new" tone or not. Love your demos and candid personal approach to what you do. You do it well. I look forward to all your videos and music.
I think we've hit a point now that we've all been around the block with a crappy amp, got a much better amp, and then when the internet came along, we lived to tell the results. We know what we like now.
I think it depends on what your style of music is, and also on the tone you want. But, I gotta agree with you... You nailed it. I think we should branch out more, but it is also a big money thing.... Lots of us don't have loads of cash to spend on Mesa's. this could be why the Bugera Trirec is such a bargain - also a 'copy' like you mentioned....
The problem is, people sometimes get stuck in those stereotypes (the "fender cleans" is a perfect example), and just can´t open their minds and give a chance to other products that might work just as good as those, just because of the "hype" of big name brands.
Excellent video. I've been wondering too why there are so many copies of things while lacking new innovations. It seems like our stream has become stagnant, and it's getting a little boring. I mean we have some amazing things, but I think it's time to go in a new direction. Sometimes it's like we keep living in the past...
I agree. We are so stuck on the concept of "true official" that we think we are not where we should be unless we own or sound like that true original piece of gear.
Haha I just bought a JCM 900 today and now I see this. I am part of the problem! No, but I think he brings up a really good point that should be discussed. New amps and tones need to be explored and given a chance, especially with such technological nature of the electric guitar.
I think that touches on how innovation itself works. Look at the history of ANY industry and you'll find something similar. Coke is coke, how many sodas are based on the original coke taste? How many companies use the same packaging for their soda? See what I mean? Innovation is usually slow, and giant, sweeping changes are always rare. That's what makes them so innovative is that they are vastly different relative to the normal rate of change.
I agree it is so bad with the overdrive market that everyone think that every overdrive is based off the tube screamer unless it is extremely straight forward ( plexidrive, tweed 57, black65)
Sometimes, old technology still rocks the world until today. We stick to what we know best and it's difficult to see something new be as good as it was in the past.
I feel the reason for this, other than everyone being in a world where everyone believes whatever is mass produced must be the best. (That includes guitars, tones, gear, music/genres, etc.) it's so people who are original can really shine. For example, if everyone is stuck on playing metal like the famous bands they like, by the end of the day everyone is going to sound like a copy. Who knows how many people like that one band and are doing the same thing. While someone who is taking initiative an thinking about what they actually want what, they actually like (not what is good or what some band makes sound good) and decides to do something good yet original. They will be much easier to single out amongst bunch of clones.
I'm not sure how I feel about all this. Definitely interesting and I get the point entirely. Being Devil's advocate here, I think it could be a case of there being only so many ways you can do something well. Look at cars, there's a few architectures out there. FWD, RWD, AWD and subtypes depending on where the engine is or how torque is dispersed. With guitars, how many ways is there to attach a neck? How many ways are there to make a usable pickup? For pedals and amps, how many ways can you achieve amplification? How can you create distortion? What I do agree with is people wanting everything 'old'. Old Big Muffs, Tubescreamers, Plexis, Strats. In general, most of those things are made better today, and its just a nostalgia thing attached to them. I'd take me a decent new strat over a '62 any day.
I completely agree with what you said. I play mostly 7 string guitars and the variety is mostly super strat shape. I'd like something different, I'm even open to using plugins designed for synths and stuff to get new sounds.
In terms of your point about 7-string super-Strats, I'd like a 7-string but I think they're too 'metal'. There's nothing wrong with that, but as someone who wouldn't be playing metal, perhaps more alternative music, different shapes would be great. Something similar to Matt Bellamy's Manson 7-strings, reminiscent of the Tele-shape; that's what I'd like
I think the bigger point/principle is the reinforcement of the Theory of Dominant Design (wikipedia it) in the realm of guitar/amplifier manufacturing. I think if you truly want an innovative/original amplifier, you need to requisition a local amp manufacturer (most areas have them) to make a custom amp for you with features you think an amp should have. Even still, I think innovation is in the hands of the guitar player. The proverbial crayon box of amps, pedals, and guitars is larger than it has ever been in recent history.
I can agree with you 100%. Most guitars I see in guitar shops are either based off of or clones of popular models made by Fender and Gibson. Namely, the Stratoscaster, Les Paul, and Explorer. Since I hear a lot of people waste a lot of money on tone, I'm happy with hand-me-down amps and pedals because they are free and save money and laugh when other guitarists ask me about how I got such a unique sound; I didn't ripoff my style off someone else. I neglected my tone and got praised for it.
"Do you think there's too much of the same thing?" Just checked my "local" music store's website, Fender has 428 offerings on there, and they sell, what, 5, 6 models of electric guitar? Musician's Friend seems to have a cleaner page and peg them at 181. So, yeah. Way too many of the exact same thing.
The Mojave Dirty Boy Amp had a nice and unique design! It's a shame that they don't produce them anymore. But the Dusky Electronics sounds (and looks!) nice too. Just as a few examples for nice amp designs
I think the reason why a lot of new guitar related stuff doesn't take off is that a lot of the "new" gear isn't the best quality. I've bought a few modelers etc. and they've all ended up being terrible. My Les Paul and my DRRI never let me down the way those have. I think that a lot of the reason why we don't like new types of gear is that we don't embrace new sounds in music too often. I think that's why so much cool stuff came out of the 50's and 60's. They were looking to experiment with new sounds and that's why we're still trying to copy them today.
There is been a lot of new things, especially for recording. All the new computerised ways to record and add effects are quite innovative IMO. As for guitar, you can have multi-voice guitars, midi / USB synth effects, loops and guitars with a ridicoulous number of strings. It's a slow growing process but things that usally break the market are there for a while before they are adopted by many people. We usally try what we listen to in the first place and there is sure a lot more songs recored with old stuffs than new. That being said, "standards" are used for comparison as always and will stay popular.
All future amps should come with speakon/ jack combo connectors. Accidentally pull out a speaker lead to your cabinet and you might destroy your (tube) amp. Won't happen so easily with speakon, cause they look and feel different, so you won't confuse them with your fx loop or line out. Additionally, they need you to pull a latch and then turn them before being able to undo the connection. The technology is available and it would not sacrifice anything, especially with those combo connectors that accept either speakon or traditional (that word sucks) jacks. Most current bass amps feature those, but i don't see em on guitar amps? Does any one know a good reason for that, other than changing things being the worst? Also balanced signals between guitar and amp would be a lot better in terms of sound quality than the current standard of unbalanced ones, but that's a whole new page and it will take many more moons for that to be even considered.
This is what I think of when diehard people hate on great new ideas for guitars like the evertune, fanned/true temperment frets, carbon fiber, and headless guitars. All are very practical and greatly improve the guitar as an instrument as far as playability. I feel that a guitar with all of these would be pretty much perfect (obviously you can't combine an evertune w/ a headless... although that would be fucking cool). Although it is a double edged sword because it's interesting to think of what kind of music the next generation would make with "perfected" instruments.
It is odd, I know several people with 70 year old Fenders and you have to stop and think; Do you use any other device in your house thats electrical and 70 years old? I mean, my house was built in 1935 and I heard that if I want to sell it now I'd have to rip all the wiring out and change it else it would be condemned. The other thing you have to consider is that a lot of people play through emulators - they have a guitar to an ADC, DSP chip and DAC. Its a powerful little computer so why is it emulating something thats a) very old and b) it'll never in a million year sound like? I did a ton of research on amps and it turns out the Fender Bassman, Vox AC30 and Marshall JTM45 account for most of the popular tones among non-musicians. All three of these amps are electrically very similar. Its not a question of 'Did it first, did it best' else we'd all have Charlie Christian pickups and 5w jazz amps. No, having worked in valve audio its that valves have a certain something mammals like. Put a transistor amp on quiet and your pets will bugger off, turn a valve amp up loud and some pets even curl up in front of them and go to sleep! It boils down to a few things that the human ear likes. However, Rage Against the Machine's self titled album sounds great now, classic even. It didn't at the time. Same goes for Wendy Carlos or Metallica and a host of others. In short; Yes, guitarists resist change. We've had acoustic guitar, electric guitar but despite digital guitar having been around since the 70s we are yet to have out 'Hendrix' or even Buddy Holly of the digital world. C'mon people, throw a curve; Innovation happens when some kid in California puts a Gibson pickup in his strat and starts tapping. Do something unexpected! :o)
***** it sucks because everyone is so caught up on the old, and they're not willing to embrace the new. Parker guitars is a great example. Elitist guitarist would never dream of touching one, but still to this day the fly mojo is one of my favorite guitars. All because it's made of different materials.
When I think of the perfect guitar tone, then I hear something in my head that doesn't exist yet, but is certainly based or even similar to an existing product. Maybe that is why there are only small steps forward, because "new" gear is often an improvement in eyes (ears) of the producer, towards his perfect sound, which is again based on something. But I really don't know how to break this circle and come up with something truly innovative.
Just thinking off the top of my head, when guitars or modern band instruments have branched out, they have sounded kind of cheezy. I'm just thinking about the synthesizer instrument guitar/drum/bass tones from the 1980s-today. Then again, it is kind of hard to build on stuff that just works well. With the guitar it works well to have frets on a neck that is attached to a body, it looks balanced. With an amp it makes sense to have low, mid, high, gain, and volume. Sometimes it just works to have a nice rich tone. Unless you are talking about effects, but some of those modeling pedals (like the HD500) just over power you with effects. I get what you are saying, but what else would you do? In technology innovation is making things smaller, faster, and more reliable. In guitar/amps you make amps with purer tones, guitars that play purer, guitars that sound purer. I am not sure what else would be done that is not already being done?
At 1:11, I was fully expecting you to mention the FuzzFace instead of the Big Muff. As for your question, I'd say that it could be argued that, as much as there are copies and spinoffs galore, there has been a ton of progress made in ONLY 60 years of electric guitars--compare to classical stringed instruments, for one. The only instrument that is progressing more quickly than the electric guitar is the synthesizer. I'd say that what appears to be a lack of progress might, in reality, be simply an abundance of people who want to participate--lots of people are bound to sound similar. Last comment: while you didn't say it outright, it was tempting to conclude from your comments about the Strat, tube screamer, Les Paul, that guitarists have simply "stuck" with the first thing they were given. In my opinion, this discredits the design, prototyping, and trial and error that led to those designs to begin with [disclaimer: I have very limited knowledge in the way that process happened for any of those]. The bottom line is that I suspect that many examples of failed concepts must exist in the deep, dark corners of the bedrooms and landfills of bygone eras. As always, great video.
You're sort of right but what else is there? We had all the wacky effects already, people want solid cleans and solid whatever level of drive, what other sound do guitars do? There are huge variations in those two states of course, and we have all have the poopload as you say of pedals and amps to prove that. I do think there is some decent innovation in the digital realm, S-Gear, Kemper, Fractal etc. but to me, and I fully admit and even propose the idea that this may be/is certainly my own bias, the real deal still edges it out, so we refine and redo the originals.
Guitar is a simple thing.It's 6 strings vibrating. So we tried 7 and 8 strings we tried alongerscale(baritone) we tried different pickups(magnetic piezzo) we ried midi guitar. As for shapes its mostly a cosmetic thing. As for amps modelling has come along way and the sound of clipping tubes is very pleasing.If someone finds something better I'll be happy to give it a shot.
Here is my 2 cents. Most people started to music because of the artists they like. Therefore they imitate the sound of those artists. As long as people play the same riffs over and over again they expect the "old" sound. I think new gear produces new ideas and until people decide to make their own music and not copy others old designs will always sell more. That said im not a guitar player, i prefer synth but similar issue is pevelent at there as well though not as much.
Your right. But like you said people prefer what they prefer. Referring to guitar shapes, people like the strat and tele japes mostly because they readily available and they're what we see when we walk in a guitar store. Custom designs aren't what people are used to seeing since they aren't already available.
I believe that technology like Axe FX is the future. Somebody will come a long and make a custom amp that will probably be high tech sort of like Axe FX. I just don't think somebody has been daring enough to do it.
I agree with you. As far as amps and pedals I'm very open and I want cool new stuff. At the same time in guitars I want new stuff but a lot of it I see I just go "Oh I don't really need that." I want new shaped pieces of wood.
It is frustrating to see gear manufacturers making "almost" clones of guitars/amps/pedals, whether they're brand new or well established. It makes you want to say, "Come on! You guys are legendary, be creative!".
I feel like I'm in agreement with you. I think as a community we do reach for safety nets we know. But I also think a few things are changing musically alotta people are drawing from outside genres to where you have guitars like the strandberg that is getting popular and its a pretty odd and innovative product. But one point I'd like to through out is like energy saving cars they're great but not every body can afford them. Music is obtaining great technologies and instruments but a lot of will never own a 3500 dollar guitar made of 100 yr old african cypress or whatever. Also saying that it pushes others to find new ways to get around that. I think the wheel has slowed but it's gonna speed up with amazing results. Look how the age of good talented players has dropped, especially in metal!
well I'm a rack guy I've had a JCM 800 and a Fender Baseman I like the Blackstar ht5 but it collects dust over my rack ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and in my rack is a ADA Mp1 into a ART SGX 2000 out threw a Mosvalve Mv962 I'm happy even if the nabours are not lol rock on
I know this is an interesting topic,,however, you gotta admit our ears are all slightly different. I had a friend that would constantly reach up and turn my bass knob down, I think I would be playing Obituary or something it drove me nuts. Most of us start out playing covers and want to get close to the right sound, yet still be able to tweak into our own a bit. We see a lot of " new style " looking guitars and sure they look fancy and all, but as we all know, the music industry has been taken over hopefully temporarily by talentless posers who play a lot of that equipment, I think we don't want to appear to be doing the same. So we fall back on the big dogs that you just can't deny like Hendrix and so on. Also,we should have an amp that can to more things if your only going to have one amp. The problem is most of us can't afford to do it all as much as we would love to have 5 amp heads lying around ready to go from Hendrix to what ever new Blue Man Group thing your trying to creat lol. I know their is great stuff out their now, and I'm very open to new sounds, however I love the classics, you gotta admit, their is a lot of new stuff that shouldn't be on the market, tinny ticky tacky crap that you have to weed through unless you have no budget. I know your meaning more than this, I'm just kinda tossin out the first thing I thought of, no offense to anyone.
Great stuff Fluff. I agree.. but then again.. I don't think it's JUST guitar players. I mean violins and pianos haven't changed much.. or had changes in strings or shapes (mostly.. not counting Mark Wood's stuff ;-). But I think part of it is that "vintage" mindset.. Old stuff is always better, more sought after, sounds and/or plays better, etc... the new stuff just doesn't have that same "je ne sais quoi." But I think the trend is to continually reinvent the wheel.. we like it.. it works.. it sounds good.. therefore it is good. Why change it? As cool as the AxeFx and Kemper units are... I think in 10 years.. people will still be drooling over Plexi's.. and might have forgotten about AxeFx3 or 5 or whatever.. Killer stuff man!! \m/
While I agree that Plexis aren't going anywhere, I expect that the Axe FX will be around for a while (or else replaced by another modeler. Note that the AFX isn't the first of its kind, either). On the bright side, maybe I'll be able to afford an AFX 2 by next decade! [Watch a chip blow the week after I get it.]
A good example of brilliant modern technology that just has not been embraced by us guitarists is the Line 6 Variax guitar. A modeling guitar? With no pickups? A guitar that can sound like most popular guitars, and even banjos and such? Sounds like an amazing idea to me.
Agree, but unfortunately don't see a way out any soon. Good guitars are always compared to those big names, which are all outdated designs with many flaws, but then new builders just keep recreating the same designs. Same with amps, and with tubes to be more specific same thing! I believe tube amps shouldn't exist anymore, yet many would consider them the only real pro version of an amp. Digital is bad, solid state is for beginners, and if guitars are not made from popular woods, with the popular shapes then it could cool but not the real thing, but what is real? What is best? Where is perfect? For who? Under what circumstances?
I think the process of "copy & modify" you describe is actually innovation :-). It works the same way as art i guess : it's more or less based on already existing things, intentionaly or not, and it makes progress through work & lucky accidents.
I agree with the points you are making however I don't feel it is a guitar specific issue. This argument applies to just about everything if we look at the big picture. This same argument could be used to discuss things such as automotive, home electronics, clothing and even cake recipes. Once something completely new is manufactured all there is left to do is make improvements and modify to suit a different taste or market. Having said all that, I love new technology in music such as amp sims, drum software and instrument parts. I am just trying to put a broader view on the topic.
I agree everybody wants things similar to what they're used to but better. And if it's different they complain and tear them apart on forums. Custom and boutique stuff is really interesting but still so expensive. If I could be unique I would but the budget allows for the "standard" stuff. Great point though.
I want to be unique!
That's why i ordered myself a Carvin DC800 and asked 500 people on sevenstring about what they picked, so i can be just as unique as they are.
I like the way Engl and Hughes & Kettner have their own designs and sound.
The Engl Retro Tube is actually pretty nice. And it's the only Engl amp I like.
sx9 i own a blackmore signature amp. For shreddy songs its awesome combined with an ibanez tube screamer.
Here's my two cents about it.
It's kinda about the music you listen and they way you want to make music yourself.
If you listen to older bands and all you want to do is to take their sound and give a bit of your take on it, then you won't inovate much, but that's okay, because that's kinda the point. The inovation will come in the form of a "fine tuning" of the sound you want. Kinda like you're picking up where they left of and try to improve on what they did. Kinda like what happened when Pantera brought huge and thick breakdowns to the mainstream. The evolution of that sound was pretty much finding ways to make it heavier. Now the breakdown itself evolved from a simple section of a song to (in some cases) "the main event" and it sounds bigger and thicker than Pantera ever dreamed of.
The problem with this is that a lot of bands just try to push the gimmick a step further (like just heavier and bigger breakdowns) , instead of adding something different to it so the whole thing becomes so condensed that one can get easily tired of it.
On the other hand you might be like me, and enjoy listening to older music and constantly think "This is awesome! How can I fuck this up?". So the whole process on which you inovate is by seeing rules and conventions in the music you hear and purposely trying to break them. A lot of noise rock and math rock bands did this type of thing. They tried to take their classic rock or punk influences to a "place" where they didn't have much rules regarding tone, melody or rhythm.
Now this type of approach might sound more inventive, but the problem here is that a lot of great ideas are never developed beyond their initial stage, because they are just ditched by the newer bands in turn of making their sound different.
In the end, if you feel there is hasn't been much of a guitar evolution latelly, maybe you are just listening to a lot of bands that fall into the first category.
I my case, I would actually love to hear more current noise/math/post-hardcore bands sounding just a bit closer to the bands of the late 80's early 90's, despite the fact that the genre now is more diverse than ever.
So it's all a matter of prespective I guess. Cheers!
Evolution is a slow process. Similar to my beard growing ability.
It's tough when an amp or "sound" had such an influence on generations (or an era, or a genre.) Molded "legends". Not only to we fight change, that change could go against a specific icon (and everything that defines them). Tough to chip away at that. Egos are as demanding as toddlers.
Fluff's daughter looks exactly like him minus the beard
it comes later
Aleksander Wolter LOL!
William Schaffer she's cute tho, nothing but respect, don't kill me fluff.
Someone once said (and I believe it was pertaining to synthesisers actually) that nothing gets old faster than a new sound. As guitarists, we've basically come to an unspoken agreement that there are a very few select number of tones that would be considered standard. Clean, crunch, distortion etc. A very few standard number of modular effects, wah, chorus, tremelo etc (plus reverb and delay of course). The standard variations in pickup type and pickup selection, and the minute variations that different makes and models offer on those tones.
Anything outside of that is considered "experimental" and almost esoteric So despite the fact that these days you can make a guitar sound like pretty much anything you want, most people still want them to sound like guitars, and have a very traditional opinion on what that is. It's pretty difficult to sell them on anything else.
Spiritledd Ray Foster Sorry but have you heard the Korg M-1(90ies), the Nord Lead 3(21st century) or the Access Virus? To name just a few monumentally good synths?
As far as guitars this guy makes a point; seen from a keyboards perspective guitarists are incredibly conservative. And I should know; I have played keyboards since I was 7 years old and I now play electric guitar,
Not that it is always a bad thing to be conservative in your preferences of course, 99 % of everything is crud and that also goes for guitar gear.
He said while strapping on his Fender Tele... :)
Rob Baartwijk
Lol nice one.
Yeah the point about sounds though, even synth sounds is that there are certain classic pads and waves that have been widely adopted and will always be used. But a great many that you'll hear on maybe one or two records and then never hear again.
There is now very much a standard stable of classic guitar tones. Anything outside of those is unlikely to be widely or consistently used. I'll pluck an example out the air. Tom Morello guitar solo on Killing In The Name Of. Hugely popular track, using some sort of pitch shifter (not entirely sure what) on the guitar solo. He certainly wasn't the first to use one and other guitarists do use 'em too of course, but how often? Despite the popularity of the track, and indeed him as guitar player, It's still an unusual esoteric sound, that would be considered far more experimental than standard.
I always think fluff is about 30 years old and then his adult daughter shows up and reminds us he's like 50
"I was born near Seattle, Washington in 1980" - Source: His Website. Do your Math...he is about 34.
Florian Baiker
Oh ok, thanks for lesson in taking things literally
+Mysquaredontfit lol
His daughter was like 12
you totally got the point man... it's time to move forward and evolve
After looking at the comments on this video and listening to it, I feel grateful in a sense for knowing next to nothing about guitars and amps, or at least anything people seem to wonder about. I bought my first and only amp a little less than a year ago at a pawn shop for $15 and have "learned" to use the knobs somewhat to make the amp sound how I want it to. I'm just saying if you have something and it works for you, I think that's all you should really need. (I'm sure many of you would say the same thing, but I'm just coming from a POV of someone who has the absolute bare minimum)
I met Reinhold Bogner a few years ago. He said guitarists tend to shy away from his less mainstream innovations. You hit the nail on the head with this video.
Hey Fluff, I know this video is old. It just randomly popped up into my feed. I've always enjoyed your content, but I wanted to say thanks for making me laugh today. I was having a tough day today and this video helped make my day much better. Thanks!
This is actually really interesting to me. I come more from the synth world and I've recently started trying to learn how to play guitar, just as a new writing tool, and something that will allow me to branch out from just electronic music. I haven't purchased anything yet, just using my dad's acoustic to get into it, but I've been looking around just to see what's out there, and it feels like you have to dig quite deep to get away from the Les Paul, Strat, etc, remakes that are everywhere or at least influence a design. With synths, everyone wants to be moog, arp or korg (for example), so I decided to build a modular system that gave me the freedom to pick and choose my sounds from many smaller manufacturers, many of which started off as boutique guitar pedal makers. I'm really interested in figuring out what's different in the guitar world when I actually get to making purchases, because I would really like to craft my own sound, rather than pick a set of well regarded pedals and call it a day. I really want to find a nice hollow or semi hollow body that can be used in a bunch of crazy ways and maybe see if any of those boutique makers still do guitar pedals that I can grab. It must be out there, but unfortunately is not always going to be easy to find.
Was that a beardless human popping in and out of this beard file video?
***** Mmm, what was I talking about again?
+Ryan “Fluff” Bruce She must take after her father. She must carry on the beard!!!!
+Ryan “Fluff” Bruce ha ha ha ha
I totally agree, this is one of the reasons why I bought a BOSS MO-2 pedal, it is a completely new sound and I wanted to try something that would stretch my playing into new sounds.
The point of amps, effects, etc. is to color your sound in a way that adds to the atmosphere/feel of a piece of music.
When finding our sound, we do a lot of things "just because," without asking whether it is necessary or if there is a better alternative that complements the work.
We've created all these preconceptions of how things have to sound, and gear that we have to use to achieve it, and we've severely limited our palette.
For instance, a recording musician may always think "Which amp or amp sim should I use for this song?" Never "Should I use an amp in this song, or color the sound of my electric guitar in some other way?"
You know what is missing from the market? Improved analog, solid-state amps. These days it seems like your options are digital/modeling, or tube. However, I think Peavey makes some, Randall makes some, and Marshall tried to with the MG series (Marshall dropped the ball after the first generation of those). Tubes are great...if you don't mind dragging them around and have the time/money to maintain them. However, I think a good analog solid-state amp would be something I'd like to see. I think it is possible for a well designed solid-state to sound pretty darn good. ...of course the key word being "well designed," and I think there is significant room for improvement there.
Check out the Orange CR120. People have trouble telling that it's solid-state because of how good it is.
Thanks! I'll have to give it a shot!
No problem man, glad to let people know about the amp. Fluff actually has a video review on it, I should've mentioned that before.
I can vouch for the CR120. I personally own the amp and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. The clean channel even breaks up if you turn the channel volume up just like a valve amp!
Just played it in a shop the other day and noticed the same thing. The drive is very good though, best solid-state drive I've heard.
Totally agreed. Just to get an amp with 3 channels (clean, crunch, metal) is like asking for too much too often. And then you get the crowd that thinks your amp needs "mods" to sound good, or needs certain Celestion speakers that cost $100+ each for a speaker. Or needs a tubescreamer to sound better. Or a spring reverb sounds better than a digital (not true in my opinion)
That and everyone seems to be chasing iconic tones, but amps fall short. And if they do one thing well, then they aren't versatile enough. The kemper could be a dream come true if I could really simulate all the tones one looks for.
As Far as stuff being the same - I have a Marshall MA50 and a Traynor YCV40. Amps with different voicings to be true. Different Cabs. But both are 2 channel amps with a boost feature, exactly same number of tubes, and exactly same issues (not tight, buzzy, volume control issues, and doesn't have enough tubes for high gain). How many amps are sold with 2 channels and a useless "boost"? Why do I have to get a JVM if I want 4 channels and not just a cheap DSL to get 4 sounds out of an amp with a foot switch?
The Peavey xxx/jsx / Bugera 333/xl and The blackstar HT-5 seem like the most innovative amps I have. They both do "More" than the typical amp, and the HT-5 does more with less. But they are still just modding Leo Fender's and Jim Marshall's technology
The ultimate problem is people keep buying "more of the same" so the manufacturers keep making "more of the same." What I'd really like to see is a JVM like amp that will do fender clean, marshall clean, say JMP 2203 crunch, and totally modern metal tones that defy characterization. But this will never happen from any company like Marshall or Mesa because they are too wrapped up in selling their "signature sound" but just end up sounding like generic imitations of their past selves.
I think the reason why you see the same repackaging is partially because it's familiar, but more likely because everyone is still searching for that "perfect sound". The AxeFx and the Kemper are steps in the right direction but they both take a lot of time, effort and sound engineering to get the perfect tone. It's far easier to rely on the 4 channels you know and love (or something similar) than to try something new
Guitarists are generally a very conservative bunch, still playing guitars designed by Les Paul and Leo Fender 60 years ago. Imagine if we were still driving cars that looked 60 years old. We have all the electronics and technology to make our guitars sound like anything but we have the iconic look and sound wired into our brains from years of Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Van Halen, Stevie Ray, Gilmour, Dimebag, Satriani, Vai ad infinitum. Until someone comes up with a new sound and makes it popular (to be copied) we aren't gonna change, not in a hurry anyway. cheers.
Cars are still evolving. The push bike on the other hand reached it's perfect form many years ago and anyone from 100 years back would have no problem with a modern one. All that's really changed is the materials they're made from. The guitar reached it's perfect by 1960 and everything since has been a copy of or tinkering with the hardware. The point is, no point in trying to re-invent the wheel. Oh, they've tried: the Chapman stick, the skeleton guitar etc. Yeh, we're all breaking down the doors of the store to get those baby's!!
johnnywebb And the people that are innovating are charging thousands on thousands of dollars for their creations, not really conducive to perpetuating widespread innovation.
Ian McBryde Yes, the Fractal Axe FX II is what many guitarists would like to have but here in Australia they cost several thousand dollars. It used to be having a good amp and a couple of pedals, now it's amp modelling, computers, 6000 patches and a vast array of pedals, all chasing that elusive tone - and that's just bedroom players.
Am I the only one who had no idea fluff had a daughter? He looks way too young to have a kid
I had no idea either makes me think how old he really is
34-36
I totally agree with you and i think amp/guitar companies need to branch out and bring new designs (with meaning/a point) to the world of guitar. But as a community we need to let these companies know this and support them for doing this.
Great video. I think the topic is totally spot on. I have found that that musicians are far more suspicious of change than other groups. It might be because music is so tied up with emotion and harder to define. You can't argue with a performance product for a car that produces a measurable result, but you can, relatively unchecked argue that a conventional bridge has a better 'feel' to it. The problem tends to be that conventions become mantras. Guitarists fear new things because they challenge all of the preconceptions they've taken as fact and think that innovation will devalue what they have / like. As has been pointed out, there are very few fields outside of music where unmodified 60+ year old designs are considered the apex. Sure, an LSX is based (in some ways) based on a small block, but no one is racing an original 265 at a competitive level. But god help you if you say anything is 'better' than an all original 59 burst or an original Nocaster.
Being that I can't afford much gear, I like to go with what I know is good. I like to find out what guitarists' tones I like best and find out what gear they use. To me, too many options can be overwhelming, however I do enjoy seeing new innovations in guitar simply because I love guitars and just looking and reading about gear. Even if I can't afford them, things like the Evertune and the Axe-FX and Kemper excite me just because they're so cool.
Great, great work. We have a lot to learn from our friends bass players, their market is a lot more innovative and open minded, we have to shake out our prejudices!!!
I think you are definitely right in that our set ways have made it so new ideas have trouble getting off the ground. It has also made it so the innovative ideas (AxeFX, Kemper, Evertune, etc.) are very cost prohibitive because they have to turn enough profit to stay in business. I know that I would love to have all of those items, but there's no way I could hope to afford them.
On the other hand (at least when looking at amplifiers), there are only so many ways you can set up a group of electronics components to actually amplify the signal in a way anybody is going to want to hear. It's a little hard to imagine what the next innovative step is when we are happy with the sounds that we are getting.
Spot on. Show a guitarist a new amp or a new guitar shape and the immediate response is usually "my Marshall or vintage blah blah blah" and there's an immediate shooting down of new stuff. Or if you're having trouble recording, get on a forum and you'll be guided towards a JCM800 and Shure SM57.
This is why I got into electronic music. I'll always have my guitar on my stand, but I lost a lot of interest when nothing was evolving.
People, not just guitarists, are afraid of change by nature. Now, as I've only been playing for 2 years and 3 months, I'm still trying to whittle down what I like in not only a guitar, but tone-wise as well. It's hard to play "new" and "off-the-wall" designs where I live, though. So, in essence, I'm being starved of new ideas. Feel as though I'm a developing mind that's only being allowed to read from 5 different books, even though I'm in a library.
I don't listen to djent that much, but I have some respect for Misha Mansoor for the exact reason of innovation. His rhythm tone and mentality towards it isn't something I've seen before. I.e. his noise gate-tube screamer combo that gets that stupid tight staccato rhythm tone.
Hey ! I totally agree with the lack of innovation in guitar shapes, most of the guitars sold around the world are based on the exact same shapes (strats, tele, SG, led Paul) which is sad, considering that many brands likes Brice, Agile, Fernandes, Etherial and others are really working on new concepts, new microphone types, fanned frets etc. And to me, they should have a lot more visibility in guitar shops all over the world...
I think part of it is that many people are fine tuning what they like. When there were less products around, anything that did something new was exploring a lot of sounds. So much has been explored that a lot of the new stuff doesn't provide as many "usable" sounds. They might be able to do a lot of really cool "niche" tones, but people on a budget are looking to buy into instruments and gear that will do most of the things they want and rely on creative playing and use of that gear to get the "niche" stuff. I think the best gear will get you many different sounds without having to use a different pedal, guitar, or amp for different songs, groups, etc.
The bugera reference was hilarious!
We just like certain tones. Once you find the "perfect clean" or "perfect crunch" or "perfect metal distortion", you don't need anything new. I'm not saying we have found them and it's a lot about personal preference. But it's kind of the same as in the violin world - the violin everybody compares everything to is Stradivarius. Same with the crunch tone in the guitar world - it's the Marshall crunch that everybody compares everything to. Marshall is the sound a guitar crunch is supposed to sound like and Stradivarius is the way a violin should sound like.
Also about that "5150 was based on SLO, etc" thing... That's called development. Just try finding something that isn't based on anything. You can't find it.
It's the same in music styles. Death metal was "based on" thrash that was based on heavy metal that was based on rock that was based on blues. And death metal sounds way different than blues, just like a 5150 sounds way different than Fender Bassman. That's how things develop. You don't just go and invent new things. If people had jumped straight from blues to death metal, nobody would listen to death metal because it would have very little in common with all the other stuff - it would sound too strange. Development is slow.
You can go and start playing with random tones and try to find something new. And I would say there are new tones too. For example djent tone - that's pretty new. When times change, trends change and we come up with new sounds.
You sir have hit the proverbial nail on its head. Great points made.
Just my personal opinion, obviously. There isn't much new because what is really left to do and/or change when it comes to the actual gear itself? Most high end guitars will play the way most experienced guitarist want it to play. The rest is up to the guitarist and his/her opinion of what guitar, and their differences, plays slightly better, or is meant for their style of playing.
As far as amps go, I mean the tones are so good already, because there are some killer amps out there. (Engl, Peavey, Rhodes, Laney, etc.) Yes, I am a metal guitarist. But, my point is, why fix whats not broken? How far can you tweak a distortion or overdrive tone? you either saturate until you cant even hear the notes and attack because the mids are scooped and non existent or you push the mids and crank your tube amp, blah blah. Either way, whats left to change?
Evertune is on the right path to design something that hasn't been done, but that's just a bridge. Designing a whole new guitar or amp, that's not based on anything that has already been done? That would be mind blowing. As much as I would love to get one. I don't think we can picture what would actually be so different that It changes the way we think about amps, guitars and tones.
But im rambling, I need a beer, and to research and learn some more sh1t.
Great point made Ryan
Another good example is the 'tubes are better than transistor. period.' thing. I mean sure tubes are amazing but transistor/modeling is getting real damn close and is capable of a way bigger variety of tonal differences. Another one is when i show the strandberg design to other guitarists they usually tell me it's horrible. Just. Because. It's. Different.Open up your minds people (though most people who are watching this are probably a bit more open minded already haha)
An often overlooked problem is that people look at classic bands and think that the gear made the sound, but it is in actuality the skill of the player. I think that every musician experiences his/her sound getting better by getting better on their instrument.
Also a lot of people listen with their eyes... and if everybody tells them tubes are the way to go, they will believe that tubes are the way to go.
A problem with new gear(modelling tech in this case) though is that they focus to much on quantity and forget that people love ease of use, nobody likes to menu dive like crazy, thats why digital stuff would catch on way better if the controls felt more analogue. A good way of getting around the problem are things like the boss me-70/80 where the sounds are digital but the controls are like on a regular stompbox.
totally agree. you always need a reference to judge something. yesterday i played the kemper....f***ng huuugee man, blew my mind. when i have the money, i´ll get one.
when playing live I always think of "dude, you gotta minimize your stuff carrying to the gigs..."
and digital innovation is the solution. wait a lil bit more and the quality will be overwhelming
Something we must not forget is that music is Art. What makes a tone and a song unique is the Player.
But I agree. What mainly changed is the tools sounding the guitarist world. Was talking with a sound tech once and he told me how a pain in the ass it was just to record musique properly.
Good point as always. I can do nothing but agree with you on this, too much stuff sounds the same. Keep up the good work man.
"We don't live in a world of innovation; we live in a world of refinement" -Marco Pierre White
I think that people want to sound like(or similar) to their favorite bands so they tend to buy the amps(or amps that sound like) that their favorite bands use
I think the problem goes also with what's popular. You see your favorite rock star playing your fav song and you want that sound. So you go to get the gear they have. There are lots of cool ideas with modeling and hd effects. But like you said they are all based on stuff we already have. I say we start running some guitars through analog synths.
Hi Fluff, I am a guitar player too, and I definitely agree with you, even if I play guitar I don't like guitar player's average way of thinking, because as you said, everybody is swimming in the mainstream of past great amps sounds and so on. I'm not saying they're not good, but everybody stayed locked for years on basically the same amps and sounds...and this slowed down evolution, definitely. Now I'm playing live with amplitube 3 with the Stomp i/o interface, and i would look forward maybe to buy a Kemper in the future, I think that's something awesome. I like all music genres, and especially rock and metal, but I think that the metal scenario is less in evolution, the band that I think actually is making the bigger innovations nowadays isn't a metal band, and it is Muse. Just to make an example, the Midi touch controller linked to a kaoss pad or a whammy and the Fernandez Sustainer on Matt Bellamy's guitar and the Kemper amp for Chris Wolstenholme's Bass for the distortions, and also the Misa Kitara. Greetings from Italy... Nice Beard by the way...
I agree, guitarists are very scared of change. Even when i was just something copying what we already know, people were scared of that, especially digital recreating analog, but this is even more of a point that I overlooked.
There has been some times when I wanted to check out new sounds, and even sometimes made or applied ones that weren't specifically for guitar.
I've done stuff like use wave shapers to make a very unique sounding distortion, or use weird bit crusher type effects to get new sounds and it's pretty entertaining and nice to mess with, but the fact is that a lot of companies won't really push to do that if they don't know if it'll make money or not.
What does make money are those lower costing copies of already established gear.
Yes! Very true. I was thinking the same thing. All the bands I know. Have 5150's of some sort, with a mesa cab. And the and same accessories. Couldn't have worded it better. Thanks for your review on the Orange Cr120h this head is killer!
Really interesting topic man! Diggin´ these Beard Files!
Im a bassist. But i completely understand what you're saying, and it happens in the bass world too, but it seems we're more open to experimentation :b
There are some really cool amps out there with original designs and sounds. I own a Hughes and kettner tubemeister 18 and it's got a sound all its own. The cleans aren't quite fender cleans and the drive isn't Marshall but it does sound like something new. But it does seem like there are too many clones and not enough original designs out there. It can get pretty ridiculous with price as well. I remember seeing a fender Princeton clone on reverb for $5000.
I've spent mucho time and $$$ chasing tone, try and convince me now into looking at something new after this long and arduous experience.
So my wife and i have been watching your videos for the last hour or so, and as we are both multi-instrumentalists. we love your insights,thoughts and questions. On this one, i would have to agree. I have actually come to a bizarre point gear wise personally for my guitar rig, That is that i play a few different styles of music and sometimes they blend. I play in a worship based band(more just at point of tube breakup stuff) heavy delays/reverbs and stereo rig. however I also play deathcore/experimental metal/hardcore stuff. The problem is, I cant find A singular amp that i like for both main music styles, and to my knowlege no one makes it (aside form say an axe fx,kemper etc) I need one to go balls to the wall fullbore metal, and the other to be chimey and bright (vox,matchless,65 esque) But i want that in the same package so i dont have to have 3 amps sitting arround. The other innovation commercially i have seen lacking (guitarcenter,musicians friend etc) is a true stereo full amp ( 2 imputs,2 outputs preamps etc) in one package. If i could get an amp that was True stereo, had the ability to go from vox chime to ripping your face off i would buy it in a heartbeat. but i cant find it for the life of me
I don't think that we've slowed necessarily. I think that the general music community has done as it always has, conformed to the popular sound (all music genres included with some exceptions that go without saying). You take a rock tone of the 70s; they all sounded similar. You take the metal tone of 80s; they all sounded similar. The same with the rock tones of the 90s, Nu Metal tones of the early millennia and the current djent tones now. I'm in total agree that we stick to our comfort zones way too much that it's very predictable. New products are definitely out there, it's just up to us to use them. Of course this is all just my opinion and I could be wrong and everyone has free will and all that crap. BUT the reality is, we tend to follow trending things. What we need is more known players to demo and bring NEW and Different products to us. Good topic of discussion Fluff
Ugh.................. Damn you for making me realizing that I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. All of my guitar endeavors are in pursuit of a more vintage tone, but trying to use it to create something new. Maybe I'm going the wrong direction. xS
you just blew my mind maaaan
With Guitars it comes down to how it fits with me. I do try to get my tone for whatever I am doing "based" on a tone in my head, that is "based" on a tone that some one else had.
Amps are the one part of the guitar chain that makes the biggest difference.
Having said that. Amps are where the evolution of tone will revolve around. For more practical reasons then anything.
Modeling amps revealed to guitarist their need for an amp that can cover a ton of tones. For cover bands, the bedroom, originals
But guitarist will drop an amp that does not "feel" or nail their perception of what is needed for them to have their own tonal nirvana when performing or recording consistantly.
If they are not inspired by what they hear, they don't feel inspired. Find me a vintage Line 6 Flextone or Axsys that someone cannot live without in the music industry
It seems like Kemper and Fractal have both found something that is reaching the players. But it has been a mixed bag. Because they cost a lot.
Sure they are a bargain for all that you get compared to the 3 channels you get on a boutique amp of the same cost.
But with the shrinking pay on gigs and the increasing percentage that the management takes (if you have that) along with the sky rocketing cost of fuel and lodging, on top of competition to get the better paying gigs. the cost is still to high for many. And for the guy/gal that is aspiring/starting out, on the low wages of today?
The idea that guitarist are holding back innovation is limited, to me. And is market and economic manipulation of the guitarist more so.
The ingredients are important to tone. But......
Most amps are either all tube or solid state these days. The "hybrid" amps use a single tube usually in a pilot light fashion many times to sell more low cost easily assembled higher profit products, with obsolescence already built in.
But some companies I believe are already doing something new.
Hughes & Kettner,for example, have done some interesting things with the Meister amps.
Some good ideas. And the Grandmeister 36 looks really innovative. It has real tubes that do what real tubes are supposed to do. They have diodes/FETs (solid state stuff) that do what they do best.
At half the price!
And better yet? They do the direct output amazingly well. H&K have a little impulse response that you download to record these things with a more live recorded amp feel. You can dial the tones up that are "like" the standards and in between.
I don't have one. But I have played one, Tubemeister 36. I am blown away by the package and convincing nature of that line. Crushing a bit maybe.
But I will continue to use my Lee Jackson (Based on a modified Marshall) XLS-1000 head and an IR for now. Because of....income.
You can never have to many toys.
But if I were in the market for an amp, I would be looking at the H&K Meisters or similar form someone. But I believe they are the first so far with the features and power scaling they have.
Its the most forward thinking innovation I have seen so far. I am sure more companies will jump at that combination as guitarist discover and grasp it.
You have already hit on the newest pickup innovations with Lace. And It looks like Fishman is offering something new too, maybe. If it is a "new" tone or not.
Love your demos and candid personal approach to what you do. You do it well.
I look forward to all your videos and music.
I think we've hit a point now that we've all been around the block with a crappy amp, got a much better amp, and then when the internet came along, we lived to tell the results. We know what we like now.
I think it depends on what your style of music is, and also on the tone you want. But, I gotta agree with you... You nailed it. I think we should branch out more, but it is also a big money thing.... Lots of us don't have loads of cash to spend on Mesa's. this could be why the Bugera Trirec is such a bargain - also a 'copy' like you mentioned....
I'm glad someone with a much louder voice than mine said something about this.
The problem is, people sometimes get stuck in those stereotypes (the "fender cleans" is a perfect example), and just can´t open their minds and give a chance to other products that might work just as good as those, just because of the "hype" of big name brands.
Excellent video. I've been wondering too why there are so many copies of things while lacking new innovations. It seems like our stream has become stagnant, and it's getting a little boring. I mean we have some amazing things, but I think it's time to go in a new direction. Sometimes it's like we keep living in the past...
I agree. We are so stuck on the concept of "true official" that we think we are not where we should be unless we own or sound like that true original piece of gear.
Haha I just bought a JCM 900 today and now I see this. I am part of the problem! No, but I think he brings up a really good point that should be discussed. New amps and tones need to be explored and given a chance, especially with such technological nature of the electric guitar.
I think that touches on how innovation itself works. Look at the history of ANY industry and you'll find something similar. Coke is coke, how many sodas are based on the original coke taste? How many companies use the same packaging for their soda? See what I mean? Innovation is usually slow, and giant, sweeping changes are always rare. That's what makes them so innovative is that they are vastly different relative to the normal rate of change.
I agree it is so bad with the overdrive market that everyone think that every overdrive is based off the tube screamer unless it is extremely straight forward ( plexidrive, tweed 57, black65)
Sometimes, old technology still rocks the world until today.
We stick to what we know best and it's difficult to see something new be as good as it was in the past.
I feel the reason for this, other than everyone being in a world where everyone believes whatever is mass produced must be the best. (That includes guitars, tones, gear, music/genres, etc.) it's so people who are original can really shine. For example, if everyone is stuck on playing metal like the famous bands they like, by the end of the day everyone is going to sound like a copy. Who knows how many people like that one band and are doing the same thing. While someone who is taking initiative an thinking about what they actually want what, they actually like (not what is good or what some band makes sound good) and decides to do something good yet original. They will be much easier to single out amongst bunch of clones.
I'm not sure how I feel about all this. Definitely interesting and I get the point entirely. Being Devil's advocate here, I think it could be a case of there being only so many ways you can do something well. Look at cars, there's a few architectures out there. FWD, RWD, AWD and subtypes depending on where the engine is or how torque is dispersed. With guitars, how many ways is there to attach a neck? How many ways are there to make a usable pickup? For pedals and amps, how many ways can you achieve amplification? How can you create distortion?
What I do agree with is people wanting everything 'old'. Old Big Muffs, Tubescreamers, Plexis, Strats. In general, most of those things are made better today, and its just a nostalgia thing attached to them. I'd take me a decent new strat over a '62 any day.
I completely agree with what you said. I play mostly 7 string guitars and the variety is mostly super strat shape. I'd like something different, I'm even open to using plugins designed for synths and stuff to get new sounds.
In terms of your point about 7-string super-Strats, I'd like a 7-string but I think they're too 'metal'. There's nothing wrong with that, but as someone who wouldn't be playing metal, perhaps more alternative music, different shapes would be great. Something similar to Matt Bellamy's Manson 7-strings, reminiscent of the Tele-shape; that's what I'd like
Rowan Vincent Chapman Guitars makes a Tele 7 if that is your thing.
I think the bigger point/principle is the reinforcement of the Theory of Dominant Design (wikipedia it) in the realm of guitar/amplifier manufacturing. I think if you truly want an innovative/original amplifier, you need to requisition a local amp manufacturer (most areas have them) to make a custom amp for you with features you think an amp should have. Even still, I think innovation is in the hands of the guitar player. The proverbial crayon box of amps, pedals, and guitars is larger than it has ever been in recent history.
I can agree with you 100%. Most guitars I see in guitar shops are either based off of or clones of popular models made by Fender and Gibson. Namely, the Stratoscaster, Les Paul, and Explorer. Since I hear a lot of people waste a lot of money on tone, I'm happy with hand-me-down amps and pedals because they are free and save money and laugh when other guitarists ask me about how I got such a unique sound; I didn't ripoff my style off someone else. I neglected my tone and got praised for it.
"Do you think there's too much of the same thing?"
Just checked my "local" music store's website, Fender has 428 offerings on there, and they sell, what, 5, 6 models of electric guitar? Musician's Friend seems to have a cleaner page and peg them at 181. So, yeah. Way too many of the exact same thing.
The Mojave Dirty Boy Amp had a nice and unique design! It's a shame that they don't produce them anymore.
But the Dusky Electronics sounds (and looks!) nice too.
Just as a few examples for nice amp designs
I think the reason why a lot of new guitar related stuff doesn't take off is that a lot of the "new" gear isn't the best quality. I've bought a few modelers etc. and they've all ended up being terrible. My Les Paul and my DRRI never let me down the way those have. I think that a lot of the reason why we don't like new types of gear is that we don't embrace new sounds in music too often. I think that's why so much cool stuff came out of the 50's and 60's. They were looking to experiment with new sounds and that's why we're still trying to copy them today.
There is been a lot of new things, especially for recording. All the new computerised ways to record and add effects are quite innovative IMO. As for guitar, you can have multi-voice guitars, midi / USB synth effects, loops and guitars with a ridicoulous number of strings. It's a slow growing process but things that usally break the market are there for a while before they are adopted by many people. We usally try what we listen to in the first place and there is sure a lot more songs recored with old stuffs than new. That being said, "standards" are used for comparison as always and will stay popular.
All future amps should come with speakon/ jack combo connectors. Accidentally pull out a speaker lead to your cabinet and you might destroy your (tube) amp. Won't happen so easily with speakon, cause they look and feel different, so you won't confuse them with your fx loop or line out. Additionally, they need you to pull a latch and then turn them before being able to undo the connection. The technology is available and it would not sacrifice anything, especially with those combo connectors that accept either speakon or traditional (that word sucks) jacks. Most current bass amps feature those, but i don't see em on guitar amps? Does any one know a good reason for that, other than changing things being the worst?
Also balanced signals between guitar and amp would be a lot better in terms of sound quality than the current standard of unbalanced ones, but that's a whole new page and it will take many more moons for that to be even considered.
This is what I think of when diehard people hate on great new ideas for guitars like the evertune, fanned/true temperment frets, carbon fiber, and headless guitars. All are very practical and greatly improve the guitar as an instrument as far as playability. I feel that a guitar with all of these would be pretty much perfect (obviously you can't combine an evertune w/ a headless... although that would be fucking cool). Although it is a double edged sword because it's interesting to think of what kind of music the next generation would make with "perfected" instruments.
It is odd, I know several people with 70 year old Fenders and you have to stop and think; Do you use any other device in your house thats electrical and 70 years old? I mean, my house was built in 1935 and I heard that if I want to sell it now I'd have to rip all the wiring out and change it else it would be condemned.
The other thing you have to consider is that a lot of people play through emulators - they have a guitar to an ADC, DSP chip and DAC. Its a powerful little computer so why is it emulating something thats a) very old and b) it'll never in a million year sound like?
I did a ton of research on amps and it turns out the Fender Bassman, Vox AC30 and Marshall JTM45 account for most of the popular tones among non-musicians. All three of these amps are electrically very similar.
Its not a question of 'Did it first, did it best' else we'd all have Charlie Christian pickups and 5w jazz amps. No, having worked in valve audio its that valves have a certain something mammals like. Put a transistor amp on quiet and your pets will bugger off, turn a valve amp up loud and some pets even curl up in front of them and go to sleep!
It boils down to a few things that the human ear likes. However, Rage Against the Machine's self titled album sounds great now, classic even. It didn't at the time. Same goes for Wendy Carlos or Metallica and a host of others.
In short; Yes, guitarists resist change. We've had acoustic guitar, electric guitar but despite digital guitar having been around since the 70s we are yet to have out 'Hendrix' or even Buddy Holly of the digital world.
C'mon people, throw a curve; Innovation happens when some kid in California puts a Gibson pickup in his strat and starts tapping. Do something unexpected! :o)
***** it sucks because everyone is so caught up on the old, and they're not willing to embrace the new. Parker guitars is a great example. Elitist guitarist would never dream of touching one, but still to this day the fly mojo is one of my favorite guitars. All because it's made of different materials.
please do more beard files.... they're great!
When I think of the perfect guitar tone, then I hear something in my head that doesn't exist yet, but is certainly based or even similar to an existing product. Maybe that is why there are only small steps forward, because "new" gear is often an improvement in eyes (ears) of the producer, towards his perfect sound, which is again based on something. But I really don't know how to break this circle and come up with something truly innovative.
Just thinking off the top of my head, when guitars or modern band instruments have branched out, they have sounded kind of cheezy. I'm just thinking about the synthesizer instrument guitar/drum/bass tones from the 1980s-today. Then again, it is kind of hard to build on stuff that just works well. With the guitar it works well to have frets on a neck that is attached to a body, it looks balanced. With an amp it makes sense to have low, mid, high, gain, and volume. Sometimes it just works to have a nice rich tone. Unless you are talking about effects, but some of those modeling pedals (like the HD500) just over power you with effects. I get what you are saying, but what else would you do? In technology innovation is making things smaller, faster, and more reliable. In guitar/amps you make amps with purer tones, guitars that play purer, guitars that sound purer. I am not sure what else would be done that is not already being done?
At 1:11, I was fully expecting you to mention the FuzzFace instead of the Big Muff.
As for your question, I'd say that it could be argued that, as much as there are copies and spinoffs galore, there has been a ton of progress made in ONLY 60 years of electric guitars--compare to classical stringed instruments, for one. The only instrument that is progressing more quickly than the electric guitar is the synthesizer.
I'd say that what appears to be a lack of progress might, in reality, be simply an abundance of people who want to participate--lots of people are bound to sound similar.
Last comment: while you didn't say it outright, it was tempting to conclude from your comments about the Strat, tube screamer, Les Paul, that guitarists have simply "stuck" with the first thing they were given. In my opinion, this discredits the design, prototyping, and trial and error that led to those designs to begin with [disclaimer: I have very limited knowledge in the way that process happened for any of those]. The bottom line is that I suspect that many examples of failed concepts must exist in the deep, dark corners of the bedrooms and landfills of bygone eras.
As always, great video.
You're sort of right but what else is there? We had all the wacky effects already, people want solid cleans and solid whatever level of drive, what other sound do guitars do? There are huge variations in those two states of course, and we have all have the poopload as you say of pedals and amps to prove that. I do think there is some decent innovation in the digital realm, S-Gear, Kemper, Fractal etc. but to me, and I fully admit and even propose the idea that this may be/is certainly my own bias, the real deal still edges it out, so we refine and redo the originals.
This is an excellent point Fluff, truly an excellent point.
Guitar is a simple thing.It's 6 strings vibrating. So we tried 7 and 8 strings we tried alongerscale(baritone) we tried different pickups(magnetic piezzo) we ried midi guitar. As for shapes its mostly a cosmetic thing. As for amps modelling has come along way and the sound of clipping tubes is very pleasing.If someone finds something better I'll be happy to give it a shot.
Here is my 2 cents. Most people started to music because of the artists they like. Therefore they imitate the sound of those artists. As long as people play the same riffs over and over again they expect the "old" sound. I think new gear produces new ideas and until people decide to make their own music and not copy others old designs will always sell more. That said im not a guitar player, i prefer synth but similar issue is pevelent at there as well though not as much.
Your right. But like you said people prefer what they prefer. Referring to guitar shapes, people like the strat and tele japes mostly because they readily available and they're what we see when we walk in a guitar store. Custom designs aren't what people are used to seeing since they aren't already available.
THAAANK YOU ! i hate the idea of treating fender guitars as a holy subject !
I believe that technology like Axe FX is the future. Somebody will come a long and make a custom amp that will probably be high tech sort of like Axe FX. I just don't think somebody has been daring enough to do it.
Johnson Amps already did that in the 90's.
Reece113 Hardly, they may have attempted it, but sonically the AXE is way ahead of the 90's johnsons.
I agree with you. As far as amps and pedals I'm very open and I want cool new stuff. At the same time in guitars I want new stuff but a lot of it I see I just go "Oh I don't really need that." I want new shaped pieces of wood.
It is frustrating to see gear manufacturers making "almost" clones of guitars/amps/pedals, whether they're brand new or well established. It makes you want to say, "Come on! You guys are legendary, be creative!".
I feel like I'm in agreement with you. I think as a community we do reach for safety nets we know. But I also think a few things are changing musically alotta people are drawing from outside genres to where you have guitars like the strandberg that is getting popular and its a pretty odd and innovative product. But one point I'd like to through out is like energy saving cars they're great but not every body can afford them. Music is obtaining great technologies and instruments but a lot of will never own a 3500 dollar guitar made of 100 yr old african cypress or whatever. Also saying that it pushes others to find new ways to get around that. I think the wheel has slowed but it's gonna speed up with amazing results. Look how the age of good talented players has dropped, especially in metal!
well I'm a rack guy I've had a JCM 800 and a Fender Baseman I like the Blackstar ht5 but it collects dust over my rack ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and in my rack is a ADA Mp1 into a ART SGX 2000 out threw a Mosvalve Mv962 I'm happy even if the nabours are not lol rock on
great that you named buguera. respect.
I know this is an interesting topic,,however, you gotta admit our ears are all slightly different.
I had a friend that would constantly reach up and turn my bass knob down, I think I would be playing Obituary or something it drove me nuts.
Most of us start out playing covers and want to get close to the right sound, yet still be able to tweak into our own a bit.
We see a lot of " new style " looking guitars and sure they look fancy and all, but as we all know, the music industry has been taken over hopefully temporarily by talentless posers who play a lot of that equipment, I think we don't want to appear to be doing the same. So we fall back on the big dogs that you just can't deny like Hendrix and so on.
Also,we should have an amp that can to more things if your only going to have one amp. The problem is most of us can't afford to do it all as much as we would love to have 5 amp heads lying around ready to go from Hendrix to what ever new Blue Man Group thing your trying to creat lol.
I know their is great stuff out their now, and I'm very open to new sounds, however I love the classics, you gotta admit, their is a lot of new stuff that shouldn't be on the market, tinny ticky tacky crap that you have to weed through unless you have no budget.
I know your meaning more than this, I'm just kinda tossin out the first thing I thought of, no offense to anyone.
Great stuff Fluff. I agree.. but then again.. I don't think it's JUST guitar players. I mean violins and pianos haven't changed much.. or had changes in strings or shapes (mostly.. not counting Mark Wood's stuff ;-). But I think part of it is that "vintage" mindset.. Old stuff is always better, more sought after, sounds and/or plays better, etc... the new stuff just doesn't have that same "je ne sais quoi." But I think the trend is to continually reinvent the wheel.. we like it.. it works.. it sounds good.. therefore it is good. Why change it? As cool as the AxeFx and Kemper units are... I think in 10 years.. people will still be drooling over Plexi's.. and might have forgotten about AxeFx3 or 5 or whatever.. Killer stuff man!! \m/
While I agree that Plexis aren't going anywhere, I expect that the Axe FX will be around for a while (or else replaced by another modeler. Note that the AFX isn't the first of its kind, either).
On the bright side, maybe I'll be able to afford an AFX 2 by next decade! [Watch a chip blow the week after I get it.]
A good example of brilliant modern technology that just has not been embraced by us guitarists is the Line 6 Variax guitar. A modeling guitar? With no pickups? A guitar that can sound like most popular guitars, and even banjos and such? Sounds like an amazing idea to me.
Yeah that actually was very innovative. although from what I understand the guitar itself left something to be desired.
Agree, but unfortunately don't see a way out any soon. Good guitars are always compared to those big names, which are all outdated designs with many flaws, but then new builders just keep recreating the same designs. Same with amps, and with tubes to be more specific same thing! I believe tube amps shouldn't exist anymore, yet many would consider them the only real pro version of an amp. Digital is bad, solid state is for beginners, and if guitars are not made from popular woods, with the popular shapes then it could cool but not the real thing, but what is real? What is best? Where is perfect? For who? Under what circumstances?
I think the process of "copy & modify" you describe is actually innovation :-).
It works the same way as art i guess : it's more or less based on already existing things, intentionaly or not, and it makes progress through work & lucky accidents.
I agree with the points you are making however I don't feel it is a guitar specific issue. This argument applies to just about everything if we look at the big picture. This same argument could be used to discuss things such as automotive, home electronics, clothing and even cake recipes. Once something completely new is manufactured all there is left to do is make improvements and modify to suit a different taste or market. Having said all that, I love new technology in music such as amp sims, drum software and instrument parts. I am just trying to put a broader view on the topic.
I agree everybody wants things similar to what they're used to but better. And if it's different they complain and tear them apart on forums. Custom and boutique stuff is really interesting but still so expensive. If I could be unique I would but the budget allows for the "standard" stuff. Great point though.