Is Chinese Wine Good or Bad?
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Nude Stem Zero
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2021 Kanaan Winery Riesling, Ningxia, China
www.wine-searc...
2021 Silver Heights Family Reserve Chardonnay, Ningxia, China
www.wine-searc...
Greatwall Dry Red, Hebei, China
www.wine-searc...
2021 Chateau Changyu Moser XV Cabernet Sauvignon, Helan Mountain, China
www.wine-searc...
2016 Chateau Changyu Moser XV, Ningxia, China
www.wine-searc...
2019 Kanaan Winery Crazy Fang, Ningxia, China
www.wine-searc...
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
It is one of the biggest, oldest, and yet least well-known wine producers in the world. According to the OIV China is now the third biggest grape grower - ahead of Italy - and the eighth biggest consumer of wine ahead of Argentina and Portugal.
Much of their grape production goes to table grapes and raisins but with its massive domestic market and diverse terroirs, China has the potential to become one of the most relevant wine-growing countries in the world. But are the wines exciting enough to compete with the rest of the world or are they just cheap copies of the wine world's classics?
Last year I was invited to a tasting in Paris where one of the biggest Chinese wineries showcased their wines in a blind tasting next to some of the most famous wines from the rest of the world: Lafite, Sassicaia, Vega Sicilia, Opus One ..,
The result was not a victory for the Chinese wines, similar to the judgment of Paris of 1976 when Californian wines beat their French counterparts at a tasting in Paris. Instead, it highlighted that China has potential and that their best wines can play ball at that level, even if they are not at the Championship level … sort of like the Washington Wizards.
So let's dive into China as a winemaking country. To date, the earliest chemically confirmed instance of grapes used in a fermented beverage is from the Neolithic site of Jiahu along the Yellow River in the central plains of ancient China, dating back to the 7th millennium BC. However, the probable native wild grape was just one of several fermentable ingredients in this mixed beverage. It is believed that Jesuit missionaries were the first to encourage the planting of vineyards specifically for wine production here, in the mid-19th century.
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Correction: Ao Yun is actually from Yunnan, not Ningxia!
Thank you Konstantin for drinking the Great Wall wines so we don't have too. 😊
Industrial chemicals…like Murray river grown or Jacob’s Creek, or Queen Adelaide Shiraz in Australia
😅
To*
The Washington Wizards never saw that one coming.
I was in Ronda, Spain, a couple of years ago and asked a wine seller who was buying the very expensive sherry. She told me it was Asian tourists (Chinese) and they bought it on no other criteria than price with no appreciation of quality. It was simply a status symbol. Same thing in travel retail where Diageo get away with easy Johnnie Walker Blue. Expensive, exclusive, status symbol stuff. They like Cabernet, what a surprise. I know that French companies buy bulk wine from La Mancha in Spain and sell it on to China as French wine (at French prices) just because of the French reputation. It's all smoke and mirrors.
I’ll be back in China in two months to see the in laws. I’ve not had any Chinese wine I’ve liked, so far, and I refuse to drop $300 USD on Ao Yun to try it. A cool thing about China and wine is you can order lots of great wines on TaoBao and every(!) restaurant has to allow BYOB by law.
Really appreciate you doing this video in such an honest and respectful way. Cheers.
I'm quite happy you scored the "2021 Chateau Changyu Moser XV" 85 points, because that's the score I gave it too. It makes me more confident about my understanding of the 100-point scale. I noted the harshness of the tanins too. I'm slowly getting there :D
I see a 2013 vintage in an Asian market near me. It actually makes me want to try this one now, to see if the harsh tannins have softened and the wine is better than 85 points
Hi Konstantin, perhaps you can consider Japanese and Korean wines for future reviews. There are wineries in both countries, albeit the latter is smaller than the former in terms of the number of wineries.
Thank you for taking one for the team! 50 points 😂
I give Jacob’s creek Shiraz 51 points, so it’s good that a 50 pointer didn’t kill you, as a 51 pointer was cleaning fluid / solvent
I did a Best of China wine tasting on my blog. Really a lot of high-quality wines, including a Pinot from Jiabeilan (“Baby Feet”), the Crazy Fang you tasted, a Marselan from Tiansai, a high-altitude Cab from Celebre, and LVMH’s Ao Yun. Fantastic quality, but as you say, way too expensive as of now, but it does show the potential for Chinese wines.
Also, to your point about liking red wine rustic in Chinese culture, I’d say western wine is still not a “thing” people look for. These wines are often gifted for business purposes but western wine is the domaine of young people (who still prefer whiskey and beer to wine) while older men drink baijiu and beer almost exclusively.
Interesting observation.....i was wondering what the general Chinese palate for wine is?. A friend of mine sells a lot of high end burgundy to Chinese and Japanese buyers.
@@J-DUB-F1 For me and my friends, I think Chinese people generally perfer their wine to be fruity and more round in tannin, beside a touch of sweetness will be better. It might be interesting to western people that most Chinese people still regard 'wine' a sort of 'fruit wine', a accointance of mine and his dad used to be a grape wholeseller who he made his own "wine", it always cloudy and got a good balance in sweet and sour.I think the wine that western people have persued for years is not really hit the spot of Chinese people , that may explain why we don't take wine seriously.
@@stevejinx6728 yeah, wines from Barossa tend to be popular with younger friends due to the roundness and fruity profile. High End Burgundy is a status buy, that’s about it. I’ve been given multiple bottles of high end wine from Chinese friends’ parents and they know nothing about wine outside of it being expensive.
Ao Yun is from Yunnan (in the south) and not from Ningxia which is on the north. There was a highly controversial tasting NingxiaVSBordeaux which got people talking about it tho
"Muéstrame dónde están tus mejores vinos "... ¡Acá, en la Argentina! 😂 Great video, as always... the best wine channel ever. Please feature more of our wines! Things are changing with climate change down here, and geat vintages are coming from furhter south provinces, such as Rio Negro. An update would be nice. Besos!! ❤
My brother brought back a "Great Wall Cab" as a gift for me. It was good, not great, and I have no idea what he paid. I always appreciate videos like this on wine regions most of us aren't familiar with.
Thank you, Konstantin! Your videos are always healthy for me in general, and certainly when I need a great diversion from stress or everyday doldrums. Cheers!
I’m so glad you finally did this! I live in a city with a large Chinatown but it’s still hard to find Chinese wines. A few Asian markets have some, but they’re usually plonk that was not very drinkable when young and looks horrid after 20+ years. They seem to get bottles from all around the world that nobody else would ever buy, vintages that are probably dead twice over, most of the time. There are some that have decent quality wine selections, and get even also in the random assortment old bottle selection come some gems. There is a 2005 Château Changyu Golden Icewine Valley Vidal icewine from Liaoning, China that one market on the northwest side of town stocked a few bottles of. Eventually, when I finally got over there again, I was able to go buy some. It was really tasty and held 18 years worth of bottle age pretty well. Definitely a bit oxidative, but in the way that it takes on some tertiary nutty and dried fruit characteristics that I quite like. We drank it for Christmas last year, and I’ve since gone back to get two of the other three bottles, leaving the third in case I decide to spend the money on it, or in case one other person decides to pick it up and be surprised!
I bought a Chinese wine some time back because my then 5 year old son wanted the Chinese coin attached to the neck. Great gimmick.
The coin was the only good thing about the bottle. My son made it into a Father’s Day necklace I still wear today.
Use care - it could dissolve into you skin
Portugal is the country that drinks more wine per capita..
Very interesting video, thank you Konstantin!
Those prices are ridiculously high, hard to think anyone would buy them in Europe, where relatively inexpensive local wine is abundant and of excellent quality
I am surprised they did not send you “the summit” from silver seal, probably the best red blend I got from China wines so far, my experience with “black beauty” was not great, too much tannic and lack of acid to age 😅
It's great to have you to try things on our behalf. You are a wine hero Sir! Not sure if I'll be getting any cases of Great Wall in for Christmas this year.. 🤣
Nice one Konstantin. 🍷🌟👍
If you can put your hands on some of the wines of the « Celebre » winery. Try it. Especially the Reds (Sulu, Bushung), but good luck. Stunning
Agree! The best reds in China so far, especially Celebre and Sulu.
You are the only wine expert that i listen to on UA-cam and am very impressed with your vast knowledge of wine. I am also grateful for your immersion into such an unknown part of the wine world. Another emerging wine region is Canada and I am surprised how so few people are aware that in 1994 a chardonnay from Mission Hill Family Estate in the Okanagan valley won the "Best Chardonnay in the World" at the International Wine & Spirit Competition in London. This is a very similar achievement that put California on the map with their win at the 1976 Paris Wine Tasting that we all heard about.
10 years ago I was flying with Southern-China Airways from Beijing to Amsterdam. I sat next to very nice and outspoken French architect. With meal they served Chinese wines from regular size (75cl) bottles. After a glass or two this architect told to stewardess that "just give us a whole bottle!". So yes, I have tasted both red and white, but I don't know which brand and how many bottles... I remember the wine was good, better than many airline wines, and also this FRENCH architect mentioned many times that "this wine is surprisingly good!".
Do you ever come to the US? Please let us know if you do!
Konstantin, I really need to send you my selection of the best Chinese wines!! 😂
Den Weißwein und das Cuvee von Great Wall hatte ich bei Mixmarkt gesehen. Beide Flaschen glaub um die 6€. Unglaublich 😀😀
I am from China and I'd say Greatwall's quality is a national shame for fellow Chinese wine lovers. But there are so many good producers in different regions that make high quality Chinese wines. I hope to see more Chinese wine tasting on your channel. Cheers!
Penfolds is now producing a Chinese wine too! It’s called Penfolds CWT 521 and it costs $150 AUD!! - (But it’s meant to be really good). Never seen it in retail though.
There are a lot more interesting wineries coming up, but unfortunately, they don't have the distribution power to go abroad. Legacy Peak, Chanson, Chapter & Verse, are all worth looking at for!
I would love to see you taste New York State dry Riesling’s against German dry Riesling. Being from NY I’m lucky to know just how great our Riesling is and it would be a fun blind comparison for the master of wine!
Back in the late 90s and up until '08 I lived and later worked in China and finding decent, drinkable wine wasn't easy. Great Wall was usually the worst, and the Great Wall White scared me off drinking any white wine for a long time.
As I recall the Zhang/Chang Yu wines were much better, as was JiaBeiLan wines. I remember some of the red wines from Xin Jiang and Shan Dong Province were fairly alright. Ning Xia seems to have potential to make good wine, but as others said at the moment the QPR is quite imbalanced.
Thanks for doing this video and showcasing Chinese wine and tasting those Great Wall wines was very heroic. Cheers!
I was hoping you would try a Marselan, the chinese hybrid varietal. It's a cross between Cab Sauv and Grenache. I've never tried it, have you?
Marselan was developed in France in the 1960s near the town of Marseillan which sits across from Sete on Etang de Thau
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marselan
It is widely planted in China, but I have also had Uruguyan Marselan
@@bclevy Oh nice! I just heard they have areas with good climate for it and that it thrives there.
Id love you to try Wine from my French Uncle who makes Wine in the Yunnan Region.
His Wine estate is called Xiaoling Estate.
Konstantin, you were right most grapes in China are consumed as fruits, so they tend to be the fruity and sweet varieties. The consumption is so big that imports from North and South America are much needed to meet the demand. For wine grapes, it was actually under the instruction of former premier Zhou Enlai in early 1970s with the first bottle coming out of Huailai, a wine region close to Beijing, now with a museum and chateau owned by the Great Wall. The first bottle was made out of a local grape variety which is still available today as a tribute to the history. You may find some great wines in Huailai but again they are on the expensive side.
Just a correction, Lenz Maria Moser, who is part of the CHATEAU CHANGYU MOSER XV in China, is not involved in the Lenz Moser Winery in Austria. Same family, different wineries.
My main concern is the regulation and if/how wines are adulterated. That last wine had the hall marks of Mega Purple. Also used in many US wines btw
Tough getting Chinese wine here in the states. And what is available is very expensive. Thank you.
I've tasted most of these wines and some more. Some of them are impressive (yet quite expensive).
Are Chinese wines generally on the stronger side in terms of alcohol content? Could it be because Chinese people enjoy drinking Baijiu, so their wines also tend to have a higher alcohol?
I had a Chinese red once, it came in a wooden box with straw. Very heavy sediment, and the wine had peaked some time before. I mean apart from port, sediment is unnecessary.
I have a question for you Konstantine. Sometimes I open a bottle of wine and it has aromas of nail polish remover. I don’t find it unpleasant and it actually disappears after a while. I first found it in Italian barbera but now see it in other red wines. Watching your videos it makes me wonder if you would judge a wine on this character or would you wait for it to disappear and then give it a score. That leads to the question of weather wines just need time to age before you can judge them. 🤯
Glad to see Chinese wines making a scene on your channel! And yes Great Wall white wines are absolute crap. Hopefully you can get chances to drink some more premium wines in the future, some of wines from Shandong and Hebei are surprisingly good😊
I wonder if I can find a bottle or two in the States to try. Have never seen a wine from China but also have never looked for one - maybe they are out there.
Loved the video! I'd be super interested in seeing a video on the ethics of wine production and consumption. It would be awesome to hear your take on things like environmental sustainability, labor practices, and community impact when picking wines. For example, Stolpman Vineyards has this cool program where the vineyard workers manage their own blocks and share in the profits from wines like "La Cuadrilla," which really helps improve their quality of life. It’d be great if you could spotlight producers or regions moving towards more ethical practices, and maybe touch on some regions that are a bit more questionable too. We all want to be more mindful consumers, and your insights would really help with that!
I think most Chinese people don't like this rustic strong tannin at all from the not well made bordeaux blend. There are very decent red wines, but the price quality ratio is not good at all. Earlier this year I wanted to try some Chinese Syrah and Pinot Noir but decided to spare the money in the end...maybe I will give a try 5 years later
Great video as always. Still don’t understand why 50 is the bottom of the scale, but at least you go that low, when needed. “Almost threw up…” is never a good description 😂😂. I’ve not tried any Chinese wine yet. At the prices you mentioned, probably won’t-lots of better, cheaper wines here in California! 🌺🙏🍷🌺
Maybe some Brazilian wines next time? I have suggestions.
Read somewhere that a lot of Australian wine makers are going to China and doing vintages.
Interesting. We plan to visit our son and daughter-in-law in Viet Nam in April 2025. Shoud we plan to drink beer?
Hey Konstantin, could it be that they dont want you to drink the Red wines to early- because of the heavy tannins???
Thank you for the introduction to Chinese wine.
A lot of Chinese rice wines (Shaoxing, for example) are very oxidative in style. I wonder if Great Wall was attempting to replicate that style for their white wine.
I haven't had any Chinese white wine with a strong oxidative style. Probably also because most Chinese wine regions (Ningxia, Shandong, Xinjiang) are mainly in the north while Shaoxing is in the south.
Never tasted but willing to try anything, but not at those prices. Thanks
As to chinese wine prices. Given the huge demand locally, especially for local well made wine which touch on pride, prices are going to stay high for a while.
Any chance of a collab with Bob Paulinski?
That would be epic indeed.
feng as a homonym also means "mad" so it's a word play
Cool episode. Love it. !
The original variatals and clones that started the wine industry in the 80s were, to be honest, not the greatest. Marselan for example is a grape variety that's rarely seen outside of China these days. Some recent tastings suggest the wines from this varietal are looking much better, thankfully. Vineyards that opened up in the 90s were able to bring in new clones that produce more varietal profiles. This suggests an upward trend in quality, along with high pricing unfortunately.
Living in California wine country you could not PAY ME to drink Chinese wine! Thanks for sacrificing your own palate!
So, the answer to the question is "a bit of both, but mostly very expensive" 🤣
Respectfully curious about your scoring system where a wine that almost made you throw up, " a disgusting mess" gets 50 points? What parameters are you assessing at the lower end?
the 100 point scale which almost everyone uses only goes from 50 to 100 for some reason, so that was as bad as it gets ^^
@DjhiseMise thank you so much, I appreciate that, now I understand.
The design of the Great Wall white reminds me of very old-fashioned German wine labels for cheap wines such as Zeller Schwarze Katz of Liebfraumilch.
To me an immediate turn off.
This sounds like wines from middle america that's still finding it's way?. I'd be curious to try some.
Bro you gotta do Japan at some point
I have had Great Wall a few times and my teeth were purple for 2 days
Do we really need chinese wine? As if there weren’t enough great wine makers in Europe, America& Australia. Honestly, we already have too many good wine makers and not enough customers. Fear that in the near future, the bubble will burst a bit and some wine makers& traders will have to close. Tough business, tough competitors
Do Indian wine next!
Chinese wines seem to be a typical example of prioritizing brand image and profits over product quality. In Chinese society, there's a culture of proving and flaunting one's status through the purchase of luxury goods, and the rising popularity of wine is an extension of this trend. Unless they start treating wine as a product of high craftsmanship rather than a luxury item akin to a fashion brand, Chinese wines will never reach a truly global standard. Not everyone can be Chile or Australia 2.0.
I have tasted mediocre Chinese wines, but I also acknowledge that the terroir has insane potential. Give them another decade and let's see what that brings to the table.
Do I have the impression that a lot of these Chinese wines aim to fill the Great Wallet? ) 150 dollar for a 92 point wine?? I know Chianti Classico's for 22-30 bucks that score 92 points.
Try Ao Yun please!
As a wine consumerà, i won't buy chinese wines not for a quality point of view but for a Human right point of view .I already buy chonese made things very often, willing or not , but when it comes to wines, i prefer spend little more or the same and choose a wine from a better country from labor rights point of view
Thanks for another outstanding tasting! I was fascinated to learn of the Chinese wine industry from an expert taster and will carefully tiptoe through any potential, future, Chinese wine purchases as a result.
Please do it with Japanese wines :D
Have you tried Penfolds CWT?
Happy Sunday Morning !!! I LOVE these wake up shows you do !!!!! This episode i re-title- FLASH GORDON MEETS MING THE MERCILESS . part 1. KB.....you really did a smooth segue to( the tower )of BABEL --your fine sponsor btw-... ur best ever! now to the wines......the first one floored me with belly laughs....from the Yellow River funny enough, but then ur consternating glare as we saw its"pale yellow ' hue. OMG....at least it would be sterile . when u mentioned Jesus and wine , I thought of a new show for you ,KB, perhaps you can research whether the wine Jesus turned was white, red , rose , or ??????? . not a scholar of bible so I have no clue....and of course rate it for us !!! ...next..THE GREAT WALL.....i can be of service to your fans here....u said its a state owned operation and cant get any info.....WELL....I have it on secret spies info that all their fabulous wine is made by labor they take from political "re-education" camps. before i finish my Sunday morning review,,,I can recommend a great Chinese WIne - if u can find it.
the 1643 Chateau Shanghai Noir. really works well with shrimp won tons !!!! a bit pricey...and u will always want another glass.......in closing folks,,,,,,,I love love the new info we get each week or so from KB.......the intials u can trust !!!!!!
CHEERS!!!!!!!!😁😁😁
not one laugh from any of you wine snobs. Why do I bother. pathetic . its WINE fer gods sake!!! HAVE SOME FUN !!!! its just to get us high and feel good . shame on you all.
I never tasted chinese wine and I‘m not eager to do so.
I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole
Lenz Moser actually mentioned during a tasting of Purple air that comes from the East (that was very similar to the one you mentioned in the start of the video) that the berries due to the desert-like climate in Ningxia are VERY small and dense, which makes the skin to liquid ratio quite 'unique'. Perhaps that plus the oak use is, what make it taste like chewing on burned coffee grounds. Needless to say that I'm not including it to my wine store's selection anytime soon, especially for those prices. It might soften out in 20 years though (you're not drinking Chateau Margaux before it's drinking window for a reason), but did not feel like it would integrate well into the wine.
I first drank Great Wall red wine in a great duck restaurant in Beijing with my fiancé, a beautiful Chinese woman to whom I had just proposed a few hours earlier on the Great Wall itself. It was very pleasant and went well with the roast duck and, while it certainly wasn't a great wine, it is part of a great memory of a wonderful celebratory meal. Since then, I've tasted it a few more times and it always is a decent, pleasant if not particularly special or complex wine. Ganbai!
Oh! Good 🎉
I have tasted once non-alcoholic Chinese wine - it was a disastrous experience. Like a juice spoiled 🤢
Interesting video, as always. One factor, particularly with the state-owned producers, is labour rights / working conditions - to say they can awful be is a huge understatement. It's part of the equation for all wine, but perhaps acutely for some Chinese producers.
There’s a Chinese car company called Great Wall - many the white ‘wine’ sold as Great Wall is a by product of the car production process…like the cleaning fluid from the engine block after boring the heads
All Chinese wine is great. Just ask the party.
The Chinese Wine Connoisseurs that I know prefer Australian and New Zealand Wines more so than Wines produced in China.
I'm not putting in my mouth or skin anything produced in China. You're a brave person!
I think 50 points is the lowest score I've seen in your channel...it is the perfect prank wine. Another note, when you opened the Gran Vin, I could hear a plastic capsule noise. If that is true, it is cheap capsule for a US60 wine. Not that it affects the wine but presentation wise, it is not the best for the price you are paying.
Mao'th feel 😂
Check out Ao Yun 👍
The only time I tried Chinese wine was when I visited there 8 years ago and bought a bottle of what was allegedly Bordeaux but obviously wasn't. A cloying undrinkable deep Rose coloured alcoholic concoction just possibly made from grapes. I stuck to beer after that
I think I will pass on Chinese wine forever, the country has so much problems with human rights and cross border conflicts + seeing the absolute ridiculous prices makes me happy to know I am not missing out on anything
Instead of being told what it is? Why don't you actually go there and see for yourself what your government told you? How much human right you get when you are homeless and living in a tent compared to over flow of buildings where everyone get a home? You tell me.
Another brainless bot
And please buy also your computer your telephone made from your perfect country
Are you going to pass on Saudi Arabian oil too?
We need to start opening our minds and getting rid of preconceived ideas. China is far from perfect, yet who is? We all have a lot to learn from eachother
It sounds like Great Wall is the Chinese version of the French wines we could buy in 1 liter plastic bottles in my youth. They were costing less than milk. Pure rotgut (tord boyaux in French).
“This disgusting mess” 💀
China's alcohol drinking culture is still dominated by Baijiu and banquet culture is very focused on showing your generosity/wealth which is probably why you get these overpriced wines for people who don't drink a lot of wine but want something expensive made in China.
Great wall... not for me.
lets be honest, only handful of truly unique terroir (in its full sense of the word, not only soil) wines are made in this world. rest are just copying. I can list those few original terroir wines that are unique from grape variety to original technique throughout, if you guys are interested and yes, Bordeaux is one of them. so if we say China is copying Bordeaux, so is Chile, Tuscany (with super tuscans), even Rioja and most importantly Napa.
could you please list them? I'm curious
@@nn-tz7yw red wines of Bordeaux, Vin Jaune of Jura, white Burgundy, Madiera(or sherry, port, not sure which one is originator tbh, never looked into it.) Kakhetian amber wines, Greek Retsina, Sweet wines of Mosel, I am sure Amarone also qualifies. these are just top of my head. I am sure I missed more than half but no Rioja, Priorat, not Piemont, no Tuscany, all are essentially copies of French winemaking. obviously not mentioning new world, each has found their own unique voice, like napa cab, australian shiraz but both are copies of Bordeaux winemaking. now that I am thinking about it… only unique and authentic winemaking style in Italy that I can think of besides amarone is Passito di Pantelleria, when they dry out grapes in sicily…
@@Ruirspirul what about Rheingau Riesling?
❤🇵🇰💙🇨🇳