For those of you who aren't aware, Rust has a build system called Cargo where you can just type `cargo run` and run the code, no need for using rustc manually.
How Malachi can be so ignorant of it: They would certainly not be aware of Tauri as well? Rust-tauri a strong bond to revolutionize the programming world.❤
@@wolfeygamedev1688 Nah, javascript is like a hammer that tells you all is fine while in fact some nails are undefined and then later the thing you built collapses on someone's head.
Yes. But Bjarne Stroustrup also think C++ is a good idea. How can we take hime seriously :) Besides very many people are using Rust to great effect. Morse so everyday.
thanks for the quote, I'll remember that ! it's very annoying when the first kind of video you find about any language or framework is "your soul will be damned if you dare to use this in 2023" or whatever the year is
I would rate the contents of this video around a 2 out of 10. Explanation: Pros (Positive Points): Acknowledging Rust's Benefits: The video starts by acknowledging that Rust has innovative features, such as traits and generics, which contribute to its popularity. It also mentions that Rust is praised for memory safety and performance. Highlighting Learning Curve: The video correctly points out that Rust has a steep learning curve, especially for beginners or those coming from other languages like Python. It highlights that Rust introduces new concepts and rules that need to be understood and followed. Cons (Critical Points): Sarcasm and Negativity: The video begins with a somewhat sarcastic tone, which may not appeal to all viewers. Using phrases like "it doesn't have Alzheimer's" to describe memory safety might be seen as disrespectful. Inaccuracies and Incomplete Information: The speaker claims that Rust took over 15 minutes to install, which is an exaggerated claim. Rust installation is usually straightforward and doesn't take that long. Lack of Depth: The video discusses Rust's learning curve briefly but doesn't elaborate on why these concepts are important or how they contribute to Rust's strengths. Misleading Information: The video implies that Rust is prone to memory leaks, which is misleading. Rust's ownership and borrowing system is designed to prevent memory leaks. Mentioning "lazy Statics or Global variables" as causes of leaks lacks context and explanation. Lack of Nuanced Comparison: While discussing Rust's compile time, the video doesn't provide a balanced comparison with other languages or explain the trade-offs that the borrow checker brings in terms of safety and performance. Surface-Level Critique: The video provides only superficial critiques and doesn't delve into the reasons why Rust's unique features and safety mechanisms might outweigh its learning curve or compile-time issues. In summary, while the video touches on some valid points, it lacks depth, accuracy, and a balanced perspective. It leans more toward sarcasm and negativity, which might not be the most effective way to provide a fair evaluation of Rust as a programming language.
Definitely this. Hope the youtuber takes note and makes a follow up video with the free advice given. Who knows, maybe theres an opportunity to even like Rust 👍
"Rust doesn't have a run button" is an amazing statement. It's like "A downside of electric engines is that they don't have wheels". Yes, no language has a run button. Your IDE might have one, and Rust is perfectly fine with that. I have VSC set up with a run button.
Right off the bat, I know this video looks like satire and I genuinely thought it was a joke, until I saw a comment saying "nice satire" and the reply was "What", as well as genuine, serious replies to some other comments that make me think this isn't actually a joke and is dead serious (and yes I know it was inspired by another video but that doesn't seem to be satire either from a brief first look), so here it goes: I got this video recommended to me and, while personally loving Rust, thought "Oh, a video about why Rust sucks, should be interesting" because I'm very much interested to see the viewpoints of others and downsides of Rust for people (and believe me, it has some downsides indeed). But this video actually disappointed me. And I don't think there was an intent to just make Rust seem worse than it actually is, I can't help but believe that either you *deeply* misunderstood the very basics of Rust - and many programming languages in general - (even as far as installing it and running the code) or were just lazy and didn't do proper research (which would explain a lot). To address your points in the video: 1. The installation: I don't understand how the installation took more than 15 minutes, it's a pretty simple .exe installer you have to run and follow a few basic prompts. It should be easy enough for the average user, let alone a programmer - who usually is more technical than an average user. 2. Not you criticising Rust, but something that you misunderstood: it's not praised for unique features like "traits and generics" - in fact, those are pretty common amongst programming languages. Rust is praised for its good type system, which includes those, safety and performance, as well as the tooling and ecosystem, but that's not all it has to offer. 3. The steep learning curve: I agree. That's a fair point and it can be jarring to learn Rust. Interstingly, Google recently made a blog post saying their programmers didn't take long to get accustomed to Rust: opensource.googleblog.com/2023/06/rust-fact-vs-fiction-5-insights-from-googles-rust-journey-2022.html. 4. The strict compiler: That's a feature. That's the point and how the safety works. Thing is, you either get the errors at run time or at compile time. Rust's compiler is actually really helpful and, while different from many languages, it's great to be confident in the code that you compile. That, of course, doesn't mean it prevents all errors, but it prevents a lot of errors and bugs due to its type system and compiler. Is it annoying to not be able to compile code accessing an inexistent field on an object, or to get null at runtime and wonder what is going on? (That's more of a typed vs untyped language comparison but the point still stands). 5. "But Rust doesn't have a run button". I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be negative but this is just baffling for many reasons. For one, not having a run button isn't anything negative, it's just a sign of a lack of experience. You'll find that 99% of the time you won't have a run button, nor do you need one. You could get one, but why the fuck does one need a run button to run their code? Is typing "go run" or "cargo run" or "python main.py" to run your code? That's such a shallow, stupid complaint. On top of that, you don't have to use rustc directly to compile it and run the binary. A BIG reason for loving Rust is the tooling and ecosystem. Cargo is actually great, and you can use "cargo build" or "cargo run" to directly run the code. The fact that you didn't know this just shows that you didn't bother finishing the FIRST chapter of the Rust book, which just sets you up. 6. Slow compile times. Yes, the compile times are slow, but it shouldn't be a big problem if you don't have a very large single crate project. That's a fair point though and you're not wrong. 7. The risk of memory leaks. First of all, Rust prevents memory leaks more than many other languages, that's the entire safety aspect that you don't seem to understand. You can get memory leaks in any language, including Rust, but it's just more difficult in Rust. You really don't seem to know what a memory leak is. Moreover, "lazy statics" are not a Rust feature, "lazy_static" is a crate that allows static initialisation at runtime, the point of statics is that the memory lives for the entirety of a program, by definition it's a memory leak. Also, global variables are NOT a Rust-specific feature and are present in many, if not most, programming languages. Rust actually doesn't actually really endorse global variables, but that's what lazy_static is for. It's recommended to use them sparingly though. I'm not trying to just criticise aimlessly, it's meant to be constructive, but I couldn't help but get annoyed by a part of it, and that is you giving bad explanations or wrong information on topics you don't seem to understand. Please take you time to actually understand something before making content trying to educate others, because you'll just be spreading misinformation. Some other feedback on the video: the auto generated captions are wrong sometimes, and the volume was a bit low.
Apart from your comment being extremely long, I loved it. I’m not right all the time in videos and I do my best to get the video out which sacrifices accuracy. So all I have to say is that in the future I will be more accurate with my videos. Thanks. Malachi.
@@MalachiRails Its fine adding some stuff to make it more fun but videos like this might give bad impression on beginners who wants to start a language or want to learn about it or a bad reputation entirely. So you have to be careful on that.
As for #5 you can literally setup a run button for Rust in just about any code editor. I have my Neovim setup to run my Rust crate when I do Rr or test it when I do Rt, it works great. Him stating it "doesn't have a run button" is just factually inaccurate.
With C++ for example, you probably won't learn many concepts while "learning" the language, but you will encounter them when actually using it in a big project. For example you also have to think about ownership and such in C++ to write memory safe code, the only difference being, that Rust forces you to think about it, while C++ doesn't!
and to useless c++ translates to c and both translate directly into embedded systems for which there is zero rust support actually there is no support even for c++ anyways if you plan to work at google then go for it else absolutely dont touch the language
Yet another person coming to Rust with expectation it is yet another langauge. What makes Rust "hard" it's that it makes you think differently from what you were used to. Which is how it fulfils its promises
Writing memory safe programs is hard. You can either get good at it through hundreds of hours of debugging, or by putting yourself through Rust's steeper learning curve. But there is always a price to pay. You're not getting a free lunch.
Kind of? Rust's learning curve is not that steep if you are not a college freshman trying to write Java in every language. People complain about how Rust is "hard" all the time, and it is invariably the case that the person who complains hasn't got a clue about how memory is used in any programming language.
@@H2CO3Szifon Granted - but you still have to learn the details, because in order to implement memory and type safety, Rust forces you to do things a certain way, which might seem foreign to many users. Like lifetimes, the borrow-checker, and Options. Other languages don't have a learning curve associated with these topics because they simply don't help you deal with the problems they solve.
@@chrism3790 Borrowing and lifetimes aren't foreign to those having written *good-quality* C++. The rules are obvious: you are not allowed to mutate or destroy stuff while someone is looking at it. Option doesn't have to do anything with memory management, and it's not exactly a hard concept, either.
@@H2CO3Szifon Ah, I see. I see we have a stackoverflow veteran here. You know what? You are right. Rust is easy. Especially if you write *good-quality* C++, which is a skill shared by everyone trying to learn Rust. Obviously. Especially you. You write *good-quality* C++. What was I thinking? Nobody who isn't already good at memory management in low level languages is trying to learn Rust. Those front end devs that deal in languages like (shudder) JavaScript... Of course it's hard for them. They're clueless. Concepts like these go right over their small heads. 🫠
1. Don't use rustc directly. Use cargo 2. The borrow checker isn't the reason for the long compile times. You can run the borrow checker separately and compared to compile times it finishes rather quickly.
Kudos! Humorous video! The confidence you have to deliver the most stupid comparisons and misconceptions about prog langs (do arise when you just code on an IDE) is commendable. Self depreciating jokes always work.
Bold young man is bold. Rust is intended to be an alternative or replacement for C++, not JavaScript necessarily.It's mostly for systems development, not cute webpages...The borrow checker exists to avoid other things that happened in languages like C/C++ when allocating memory dynamically, where the developer could forget to release/free the previously allocated memory. So of course there can be memory leaks, but the point is to make it harder for the developer to do so.
I just listened up to the point where he complained about the compiler rejecting the program. Because that is exactly what I was looking for. I am tired of waiting three hours for a program to complete and then seeing it crash at the last minute due to a minor bug. This person probably never programmed anything that deals with large amounts of data.
Don't compare rust to javascript lol. Its supposed to be a replacement to c++, which has every issue you said so far except instead of being strict, it just takes your code, crashes, and then leaves you alone to solve it
When Grayson Hoare conceived Rust it was not as as a replacement for C++. No serious Rust developers are advocating rewriting all C++ in Rust, they are not so daft. Why not compare Rust to JS? Or any other language. As it happens we now use Rust in places where we would have formally used Javascript and node.js. Much of my Rust code loos pretty much like JS.
@@Heater-v1.0.0 and when javacript was first made, it was called mocha. It doesn't matter what the original goal was, the current versions of rust, even with crates like yew or tauri, still prefers to use html, css and javascript to design a website, not using pure rust code. Rust is a systems language with slightly higher level features then c, so it makes sense to compare it to c++. Also, if your rust code looks like javascript code, then something is probably wrong with it
The fact that you compare rust to JavaScript shows you don't know what you're talking about. "It doesn't have a run button" is what a 15 year old who knows 5 lines of code in python says.
I have the feeling that this video is made from a false perspective. Comments like :" rust doesn't have a run button, but you have to open a shell" or " I miss Javascript already" really show that your focus and requirements is more on the scripting side of programming. Rust isn't made for that. You should stick with python and similar languages if you want to hack in a few lines of code and get results quickly... Rust is an alternative to c, not to scripting languages
Ffs the run button has nothing to do with the language, it has to do with your editor. I use what is effectively a "run button" from within neovim to run my Rust code *all* the time.
In Visual Studio Code, we use Code Runner to execute JavaScript code. While I had been using Java for a year, I recently started learning Rust as my third language. Rust, being a statically typed language like Java, offers ease of learning due to its strong type system, including types like 'i32' and 'u32' which enhance memory safety. Unlike scripting languages, Rust requires a compilation step before running the application, making it a compiled language.
Im actively trying to learn Rust and I'm a little older than you so maybe i can provide a different prospective. Warning, I want to like Rust, just a confirmation of bias there. Ok Rust does not take 15 minutes to install. I think maybe 3 to 5 minutes tops. Download speeds so milage may vary. The compiler while pedantic, is not your enemy. It is helping you succeed. Not only does it tell you you've made a mistake but also how to fix it. Again, your compiler is your friend, not foe. If you approach it from this perspective vice that of "It's yelling at me.". You'll get more out of the experience. But this is a perspective thing. You can Run Rust directly inside the IDE without issueing build commands or manual runs. The IDE will handle that lift for you. Anyway, I hope these points reach you rather than fall on deaf ears.. or eyes rather. Also, Rust is not a trivial thing to learn but it is mostly intuitive, and i find it fun.
I don't know how long it takes for people installing the binaries, but I built it from source and it took well over 30 minutes. This latest install takes up 7.5gb of space, which is insane, and that's after completely wiping the directory multiple times and starting from scratch on building it each time I've upgraded it. Part of the reason I did so is because the first install was over 30gb, and that's even more insane than the current install. Personally, unless you're just getting started, I'd advise everyone to avoid Rust. If you've been programming for a significant number of years then you can already do everything that they promise with Rust and you've already got libraries of code built up to enable that with ease, at least if you're a decent programmer.
I learn Rust as my second language after Python as first, and It's not as hard as you say. Just forget about very high level features when you start learning it, and step by step learn what you need, and also it has very friendly documentation not like other languages like Python, C and others can help your learning and understanding of the language. All you need is a Rust LSP which show the documentation, and maybe some skill of RTFM and English.
Rust is a system language, comparing it to something like Python is totally pointless. They have a very different goal. You have to compare it to something like C++, and then you realize that it's actually not that hard to learn.
Haskell has a very steep learning curve; Rust is even less complex than C++; Rust is no Python, but the fact that its features are orthogonal means one can learn it incrementally, and that makes all the difference.
people who only knows js or python dont need rust because they dont even know what kind of problems rust solves people who knows c, cpp or go are more likely to appreaciate rust features...
I hope this was a parody video lol. I mainly use Python and have barely ever touched Rust. IF this video was unironic, then those are some bullshit arguments. If someone wants to know, I'll gladly break down each one of them.
Rust is a systems language that is compiled. That is the point. Its praise is to help systems engineers not shoot themselves in the foot with pointers getting out of hand, which is where the ownership system was born from. The things you are complaining about is the stuff that has been the norm for years. This video seems like a react developer's point of view. There was absolutely nothing in this video that makes me want to forget rust.
Depends on what you want to do with the lang, if u just wanna do business logic stuff sure rust is over killed, if you want to do thing more complicated, rust is definitely the best choice over something like cpp
Comparing Rust with JS or Python IMHO is like comparing oranges to apples, yup both are somehow spheric. Rust is a low level programming language and therefore learning curve is pretty adjusted, compare it to C or C++ and see the whole new world with proper package manager, much much easier than C++. In Rust you have this complicated abstractions for granted like in python, but have most of the control (even unsafe rust if you wish so) like in C/C++.
What is the point of this video? The thumbnail and title make it seem like your going to propose an argument as to why Rust isn't as good as people say it is, which is why I clicked. Instead of that there is an incredibly surface level video with very little knowledge shared and no real argument made beyond "took 15 minutes to install" and "steep learning curve."
just look at gtk4 rust bindings vs gtkmm c++ bindings & u will see why rust is more complicated than it needs to be. inheritence is so much more easy to work with than traits for example.
If rust would be so bad, you would not even spend time on a video trying oh so hard to paint it in bad light. If it was so bad, no one would have time to hate it so much.
@@MalachiRails I am referring not a year you mentioned but your critiques. Things like how much time it took to install or compilation process has very little todo with Rust or programming in general, and tells me that you are either quite an amature or made this video on purpuse to generate hollyware traffic. If it is the second one, I think your strutegy is good 😁
The Rust syntax is so bloated that I can literally not even find several syntax symbols on my international keyboard. The people who designed this monstrosity have never field tested it.
O. o not using vscode rust extension, or intellij's rust plugin is your first problem, next all languages leak from bad global state, all of them, thats just bad architecture. 15 minute install? What potato are you developing on? Took me less than 10 seconds to install rust.
@@MalachiRails jk :) I assume it was kind of a joke video, but still, it might be misleading to beginners, as it focuses on the negative and forgets to give an understanding of its pros, why some of those "negatives" are actually intended and desired, and why it may be the right tool for your problem. Also, compile times don't suck that bad, yes, they're worse than other languages but it's not that bad, especially if you use proper optimization settings.
open terminal and type command is normal, why would you need run button? this is ridiculious. I had use C, PHP, Python, C# and Rust. Compare to others, Rust is not that hard to learn and it help you avoid common trillion dollars bugs that's why people that coding seriously love it
Okay, first up, I cringed when you said you knew what you were doing, and then you proceeded to use the `rustc main.rs` command instead of the `cargo run` command, which you are supposed to use! Second up, the Windows installation is a little long... yeah... but me on Linux, it only took 30 seconds or so to install. It is really just a Windows issue. It makes sense, Rust isn't the only programming language that needs to install Visual Studio.
@@matyasmarkkovacs8336 I don't see Rust syntax as terrible. It's regular and makes a lot of sense. C++ is far worse. C is worse. Javascript was OK but recent "enhancements" to the standard are messing that up. Other languages, meh, so so.
I was legitimately surprised when the video ended instead of hearing "haha jk here is my real rust video" Now I can't tell if that's the joke Edit: ok, looked around at the other vids on the channel, definitely satire
That is a trick question. C++ is such a huge and contorted language that no single human knows all its features and how they interact with each other. Rust is much easier.
Arguably, learning any new programming language is easier when you know at least one other language already. "Knowing C++" is a pretty imprecise statement since nobody knows C++ these days. Everyone who claims they do, usually knows up to 60% of C++ and uses about 10% of it. C++ can hardly be considered one programming language at this point. It's a burning pile of shit - a mess containing every feature that anyone in the history of computing thought would be good at some point in time (and found out that it's a fucking awful idea later), all cramped into one compiler. Rust fixes this AND other glaring problems of both C and C++ while providing the same control and performance AND additionally comes with amazing tooling and extremely helpful compiler error messages which makes it an absolute pleasure to use, if you spend at least 20 minutes openly trying to learn the basics of it (unlike the pathetic moron who made this ridiculously stupid video). Since rust is at its core a "systems programming language", operating at a lower abstraction level than interpreted scripting languages like JS, ruby or python, you will inevitably also learn a lot about computers in general while learning rust, but you don't have to know a lot to get started with it. Start here and enjoy your journey: www.rust-lang.org/learn
For game developing with zombie-horde only C++ or Rust. And absolutly sure that not Python. C# has lags in course of garbage collector. So it is actual to make video "C++ or Rust". But right now Rust in developing progress. It will be better after few years.
Rust doesn't have "innovative features". They are just unknown to the usual script kiddies that only know JavaScript or Python. If you have some background in functional programming the learning curve isn't that steep at all and the features in Rust are more or less standard.
Sure Rust has innovative features. Adding the borrow checker to a compiled imperative language for example. I know of no other language that has done that. Even the analy safe Ada has take inspiration from that. Almost nobody has a background in Functional Programming. It is Rust's innovation to add memory safety to a style of language that people can actually understand.
![Web-native Rust apps [PART 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y10jJX35shE/mqdefault.jpg)
For those of you who aren't aware, Rust has a build system called Cargo where you can just type `cargo run` and run the code, no need for using rustc manually.
this. this this.
I was thinking the same thing, like my guy intentionally took the longer way to exaggerate the difficulty…
How Malachi can be so ignorant of it:
They would certainly not be aware of Tauri as well?
Rust-tauri a strong bond to revolutionize the programming world.❤
I don't think any rust developer has ever had the need to use rustc directly
WARNING: This is a click bait video with no useful information. Would be better if it was actually funny.
Well shit sorry
@@MalachiRails So sorry. I was having a grumpy day. It was me that lost his sense of humour.
But you were right
@@MalachiRailsu r a low iq developer lol
Disappointed with the naming of the video. Not related to the content.
As soon as he said "javascript" I paused this video and started reading comments 😂
Lol
Comparing Rust to Javascript it’s like comparing a hammer to a wrench: different tools, different usages.
Agreed, however probably more like a hammer and a squeaky hammer mom gave toddler to not hurt himself.
@@wolfeygamedev1688 Nah, javascript is like a hammer that tells you all is fine while in fact some nails are undefined and then later the thing you built collapses on someone's head.
It's like comparing a Ferrari to a lego car
@@OrbitalCookie
Wow, what an accurate allegory 😮.
And one is freaking annoying.
Bjarne Stroustrup once said, "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."
I guess enough people are starting to complain about Rust now.
Yes. But Bjarne Stroustrup also think C++ is a good idea. How can we take hime seriously :)
Besides very many people are using Rust to great effect. Morse so everyday.
thanks for the quote, I'll remember that ! it's very annoying when the first kind of video you find about any language or framework is "your soul will be damned if you dare to use this in 2023" or whatever the year is
I would rate the contents of this video around a 2 out of 10.
Explanation:
Pros (Positive Points):
Acknowledging Rust's Benefits: The video starts by acknowledging that Rust has innovative features, such as traits and generics, which contribute to its popularity. It also mentions that Rust is praised for memory safety and performance.
Highlighting Learning Curve: The video correctly points out that Rust has a steep learning curve, especially for beginners or those coming from other languages like Python. It highlights that Rust introduces new concepts and rules that need to be understood and followed.
Cons (Critical Points):
Sarcasm and Negativity: The video begins with a somewhat sarcastic tone, which may not appeal to all viewers. Using phrases like "it doesn't have Alzheimer's" to describe memory safety might be seen as disrespectful.
Inaccuracies and Incomplete Information: The speaker claims that Rust took over 15 minutes to install, which is an exaggerated claim. Rust installation is usually straightforward and doesn't take that long.
Lack of Depth: The video discusses Rust's learning curve briefly but doesn't elaborate on why these concepts are important or how they contribute to Rust's strengths.
Misleading Information: The video implies that Rust is prone to memory leaks, which is misleading. Rust's ownership and borrowing system is designed to prevent memory leaks. Mentioning "lazy Statics or Global variables" as causes of leaks lacks context and explanation.
Lack of Nuanced Comparison: While discussing Rust's compile time, the video doesn't provide a balanced comparison with other languages or explain the trade-offs that the borrow checker brings in terms of safety and performance.
Surface-Level Critique: The video provides only superficial critiques and doesn't delve into the reasons why Rust's unique features and safety mechanisms might outweigh its learning curve or compile-time issues.
In summary, while the video touches on some valid points, it lacks depth, accuracy, and a balanced perspective. It leans more toward sarcasm and negativity, which might not be the most effective way to provide a fair evaluation of Rust as a programming language.
well then fair enough.
Definitely this. Hope the youtuber takes note and makes a follow up video with the free advice given. Who knows, maybe theres an opportunity to even like Rust 👍
On the first two points, I'll just say you missed the joke
Gotta like GPT style analyzes
Bro hit em with that ChatGPT prompt
I'm learning rust as a pythonist and it's being pretty straightforward. As a programmer, you are very good at creating misleading information
what are the sources you are using for learning rust?
@@zaynnqureshi I've started with the rust book, but I'm reading a second book called the rust programming language, both are very good headstarters
@@luabida wait but "the rust programming language" is "the rust book". You too like to mislead people a lil bit lmao.
@@63Limar nope, I'm reading the 2nd edition from the book by Steve Klabnik and Carol Nichols
@@luabida and the first book, which was that?
"Rust doesn't have a run button" is an amazing statement. It's like "A downside of electric engines is that they don't have wheels".
Yes, no language has a run button. Your IDE might have one, and Rust is perfectly fine with that. I have VSC set up with a run button.
That one caught me off guard so much. Either a weak attempt at a joke or showing the utter lack of his understanding of the subject.
Right off the bat, I know this video looks like satire and I genuinely thought it was a joke, until I saw a comment saying "nice satire" and the reply was "What", as well as genuine, serious replies to some other comments that make me think this isn't actually a joke and is dead serious (and yes I know it was inspired by another video but that doesn't seem to be satire either from a brief first look), so here it goes:
I got this video recommended to me and, while personally loving Rust, thought "Oh, a video about why Rust sucks, should be interesting" because I'm very much interested to see the viewpoints of others and downsides of Rust for people (and believe me, it has some downsides indeed). But this video actually disappointed me. And I don't think there was an intent to just make Rust seem worse than it actually is, I can't help but believe that either you *deeply* misunderstood the very basics of Rust - and many programming languages in general - (even as far as installing it and running the code) or were just lazy and didn't do proper research (which would explain a lot).
To address your points in the video:
1. The installation: I don't understand how the installation took more than 15 minutes, it's a pretty simple .exe installer you have to run and follow a few basic prompts. It should be easy enough for the average user, let alone a programmer - who usually is more technical than an average user.
2. Not you criticising Rust, but something that you misunderstood: it's not praised for unique features like "traits and generics" - in fact, those are pretty common amongst programming languages. Rust is praised for its good type system, which includes those, safety and performance, as well as the tooling and ecosystem, but that's not all it has to offer.
3. The steep learning curve: I agree. That's a fair point and it can be jarring to learn Rust. Interstingly, Google recently made a blog post saying their programmers didn't take long to get accustomed to Rust: opensource.googleblog.com/2023/06/rust-fact-vs-fiction-5-insights-from-googles-rust-journey-2022.html.
4. The strict compiler: That's a feature. That's the point and how the safety works. Thing is, you either get the errors at run time or at compile time. Rust's compiler is actually really helpful and, while different from many languages, it's great to be confident in the code that you compile. That, of course, doesn't mean it prevents all errors, but it prevents a lot of errors and bugs due to its type system and compiler. Is it annoying to not be able to compile code accessing an inexistent field on an object, or to get null at runtime and wonder what is going on? (That's more of a typed vs untyped language comparison but the point still stands).
5. "But Rust doesn't have a run button". I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be negative but this is just baffling for many reasons. For one, not having a run button isn't anything negative, it's just a sign of a lack of experience. You'll find that 99% of the time you won't have a run button, nor do you need one. You could get one, but why the fuck does one need a run button to run their code? Is typing "go run" or "cargo run" or "python main.py" to run your code? That's such a shallow, stupid complaint.
On top of that, you don't have to use rustc directly to compile it and run the binary. A BIG reason for loving Rust is the tooling and ecosystem. Cargo is actually great, and you can use "cargo build" or "cargo run" to directly run the code. The fact that you didn't know this just shows that you didn't bother finishing the FIRST chapter of the Rust book, which just sets you up.
6. Slow compile times. Yes, the compile times are slow, but it shouldn't be a big problem if you don't have a very large single crate project. That's a fair point though and you're not wrong.
7. The risk of memory leaks. First of all, Rust prevents memory leaks more than many other languages, that's the entire safety aspect that you don't seem to understand. You can get memory leaks in any language, including Rust, but it's just more difficult in Rust. You really don't seem to know what a memory leak is. Moreover, "lazy statics" are not a Rust feature, "lazy_static" is a crate that allows static initialisation at runtime, the point of statics is that the memory lives for the entirety of a program, by definition it's a memory leak. Also, global variables are NOT a Rust-specific feature and are present in many, if not most, programming languages. Rust actually doesn't actually really endorse global variables, but that's what lazy_static is for. It's recommended to use them sparingly though.
I'm not trying to just criticise aimlessly, it's meant to be constructive, but I couldn't help but get annoyed by a part of it, and that is you giving bad explanations or wrong information on topics you don't seem to understand. Please take you time to actually understand something before making content trying to educate others, because you'll just be spreading misinformation.
Some other feedback on the video: the auto generated captions are wrong sometimes, and the volume was a bit low.
Apart from your comment being extremely long, I loved it. I’m not right all the time in videos and I do my best to get the video out which sacrifices accuracy. So all I have to say is that in the future I will be more accurate with my videos.
Thanks.
Malachi.
@@MalachiRails Its fine adding some stuff to make it more fun but videos like this might give bad impression on beginners who wants to start a language or want to learn about it or a bad reputation entirely. So you have to be careful on that.
Really glad to see a well argumented, well reasoned and above all polite response to this video. Well done!
Dude why you commenting a novel under a 2 minute video? The video is retarded, but you don't have to be.
As for #5 you can literally setup a run button for Rust in just about any code editor. I have my Neovim setup to run my Rust crate when I do Rr or test it when I do Rt, it works great. Him stating it "doesn't have a run button" is just factually inaccurate.
I was hoping for a senior 50+ years old C dev but then I heard JavaScwipt. Hurting.
fact
lol
I was hoping for criticism from someone who understood programming at all.
@@sligit slagot
@@tortue5080 lol, ok
Rust is not tough to learn. The concepts may be unfamiliar to you.
Maybe you’re just a genius
Ok
Bullshit.
With C++ for example, you probably won't learn many concepts while "learning" the language, but you will encounter them when actually using it in a big project. For example you also have to think about ownership and such in C++ to write memory safe code, the only difference being, that Rust forces you to think about it, while C++ doesn't!
and to useless c++ translates to c and both translate directly into embedded systems for which there is zero rust support actually there is no support even for c++ anyways if you plan to work at google then go for it else absolutely dont touch the language
Yet another person coming to Rust with expectation it is yet another langauge. What makes Rust "hard" it's that it makes you think differently from what you were used to. Which is how it fulfils its promises
Comparing JS to Rust , its like comparing a drunk man lying on the ground with a sober one.
The nice thing about rust is, once you get the code to compile, it's not very likely it will mess up.
True
So basically what I'm hearing is.
Rust is bad because its not what I wanted it to be.
Sounds about right
yep
Writing memory safe programs is hard. You can either get good at it through hundreds of hours of debugging, or by putting yourself through Rust's steeper learning curve.
But there is always a price to pay. You're not getting a free lunch.
Kind of? Rust's learning curve is not that steep if you are not a college freshman trying to write Java in every language. People complain about how Rust is "hard" all the time, and it is invariably the case that the person who complains hasn't got a clue about how memory is used in any programming language.
@@H2CO3Szifon Granted - but you still have to learn the details, because in order to implement memory and type safety, Rust forces you to do things a certain way, which might seem foreign to many users. Like lifetimes, the borrow-checker, and Options.
Other languages don't have a learning curve associated with these topics because they simply don't help you deal with the problems they solve.
@@chrism3790 Borrowing and lifetimes aren't foreign to those having written *good-quality* C++. The rules are obvious: you are not allowed to mutate or destroy stuff while someone is looking at it. Option doesn't have to do anything with memory management, and it's not exactly a hard concept, either.
@@H2CO3Szifon
Ah, I see. I see we have a stackoverflow veteran here.
You know what? You are right. Rust is easy. Especially if you write *good-quality* C++, which is a skill shared by everyone trying to learn Rust. Obviously. Especially you. You write *good-quality* C++. What was I thinking? Nobody who isn't already good at memory management in low level languages is trying to learn Rust. Those front end devs that deal in languages like (shudder) JavaScript... Of course it's hard for them. They're clueless. Concepts like these go right over their small heads. 🫠
True agreed
1. Don't use rustc directly. Use cargo
2. The borrow checker isn't the reason for the long compile times. You can run the borrow checker separately and compared to compile times it finishes rather quickly.
Kudos! Humorous video! The confidence you have to deliver the most stupid comparisons and misconceptions about prog langs (do arise when you just code on an IDE) is commendable.
Self depreciating jokes always work.
haters gonna hate.
big parts of it are stolen from here: ua-cam.com/video/UkcHAyh_CLs/v-deo.html
@@MalachiRailsyou sure know a lot about hating :)
Bold young man is bold. Rust is intended to be an alternative or replacement for C++, not JavaScript necessarily.It's mostly for systems development, not cute webpages...The borrow checker exists to avoid other things that happened in languages like C/C++ when allocating memory dynamically, where the developer could forget to release/free the previously allocated memory. So of course there can be memory leaks, but the point is to make it harder for the developer to do so.
Very interesting.
you took this video 100% more seriously than you should have.
@@Dev-Siri Well my comment intended to be just additional information. I like the memes and stuff from this channel, so no worries here
@@josemonge4604 I appreciate the insights Jose
no one use rust for system development either
I just listened up to the point where he complained about the compiler rejecting the program. Because that is exactly what I was looking for. I am tired of waiting three hours for a program to complete and then seeing it crash at the last minute due to a minor bug. This person probably never programmed anything that deals with large amounts of data.
Don't compare rust to javascript lol. Its supposed to be a replacement to c++, which has every issue you said so far except instead of being strict, it just takes your code, crashes, and then leaves you alone to solve it
When Grayson Hoare conceived Rust it was not as as a replacement for C++. No serious Rust developers are advocating rewriting all C++ in Rust, they are not so daft.
Why not compare Rust to JS? Or any other language. As it happens we now use Rust in places where we would have formally used Javascript and node.js. Much of my Rust code loos pretty much like JS.
@@Heater-v1.0.0 and when javacript was first made, it was called mocha. It doesn't matter what the original goal was, the current versions of rust, even with crates like yew or tauri, still prefers to use html, css and javascript to design a website, not using pure rust code. Rust is a systems language with slightly higher level features then c, so it makes sense to compare it to c++. Also, if your rust code looks like javascript code, then something is probably wrong with it
Even if this vid was a satire it would still be a garbage and worst spent time in my life.
nice satire
What
@@MalachiRails this isn't satire? you're just listing out the cliche people throw about rust before actually exploring it
About the rust compiler, please show me another low level compiler so beautifully designed as rust. The debugger is lovely.
The fact that you compare rust to JavaScript shows you don't know what you're talking about. "It doesn't have a run button" is what a 15 year old who knows 5 lines of code in python says.
I have the feeling that this video is made from a false perspective.
Comments like :" rust doesn't have a run button, but you have to open a shell" or " I miss Javascript already" really show that your focus and requirements is more on the scripting side of programming.
Rust isn't made for that. You should stick with python and similar languages if you want to hack in a few lines of code and get results quickly...
Rust is an alternative to c, not to scripting languages
Fair
Ffs the run button has nothing to do with the language, it has to do with your editor. I use what is effectively a "run button" from within neovim to run my Rust code *all* the time.
This is why youtube should have never even considered hiding the dislike count sitewide
In Visual Studio Code, we use Code Runner to execute JavaScript code. While I had been using Java for a year, I recently started learning Rust as my third language. Rust, being a statically typed language like Java, offers ease of learning due to its strong type system, including types like 'i32' and 'u32' which enhance memory safety. Unlike scripting languages, Rust requires a compilation step before running the application, making it a compiled language.
Im actively trying to learn Rust and I'm a little older than you so maybe i can provide a different prospective. Warning, I want to like Rust, just a confirmation of bias there.
Ok Rust does not take 15 minutes to install. I think maybe 3 to 5 minutes tops. Download speeds so milage may vary.
The compiler while pedantic, is not your enemy. It is helping you succeed. Not only does it tell you you've made a mistake but also how to fix it. Again, your compiler is your friend, not foe.
If you approach it from this perspective vice that of "It's yelling at me.". You'll get more out of the experience. But this is a perspective thing.
You can Run Rust directly inside the IDE without issueing build commands or manual runs. The IDE will handle that lift for you.
Anyway, I hope these points reach you rather than fall on deaf ears.. or eyes rather.
Also, Rust is not a trivial thing to learn but it is mostly intuitive, and i find it fun.
You should see the projects built with rust. The possibilities are endless.
"I missed JavaScript already" hahaha I came to the wrong place for an informed opinion. lol. lmao, even
Ok
I don't know how long it takes for people installing the binaries, but I built it from source and it took well over 30 minutes. This latest install takes up 7.5gb of space, which is insane, and that's after completely wiping the directory multiple times and starting from scratch on building it each time I've upgraded it. Part of the reason I did so is because the first install was over 30gb, and that's even more insane than the current install. Personally, unless you're just getting started, I'd advise everyone to avoid Rust. If you've been programming for a significant number of years then you can already do everything that they promise with Rust and you've already got libraries of code built up to enable that with ease, at least if you're a decent programmer.
I'm gonna start taking things people have rewritten in Rust and rewrite them back into C/C++.
Go for it
"It took me over 15 minutes to be installed". As an Arch user I can say '$ sudo pacman -S rust'
I use Arch BTW
Nice one
I think this is a bit to satirical for most people....
I learn Rust as my second language after Python as first, and It's not as hard as you say. Just forget about very high level features when you start learning it, and step by step learn what you need, and also it has very friendly documentation not like other languages like Python, C and others can help your learning and understanding of the language. All you need is a Rust LSP which show the documentation, and maybe some skill of RTFM and English.
Buy the book man
amzn.to/48dMjEs
@@MalachiRails nah bro my parent not allow me to use money, and also I'm kinda free guy.
Rust is a system language, comparing it to something like Python is totally pointless. They have a very different goal. You have to compare it to something like C++, and then you realize that it's actually not that hard to learn.
Haskell has a very steep learning curve; Rust is even less complex than C++; Rust is no Python, but the fact that its features are orthogonal means one can learn it incrementally, and that makes all the difference.
people who only knows js or python dont need rust because they dont even know what kind of problems rust solves
people who knows c, cpp or go are more likely to appreaciate rust features...
Well said.
I can already predict the next prime reacts video.
He’s a G
ha ha ha. shhhhhhhhhh.
@@behnamesmaili9916 why lol
they say all the orange cat in this world shares one single braincell. you are a cute orange cat
I hope this was a parody video lol. I mainly use Python and have barely ever touched Rust. IF this video was unironic, then those are some bullshit arguments. If someone wants to know, I'll gladly break down each one of them.
Sadly the jokes are way too awkward and missed an actual joke. I don't blame people for disliking
This is such good satire
My favourite part was the Run button
fair
Rust is a systems language that is compiled. That is the point. Its praise is to help systems engineers not shoot themselves in the foot with pointers getting out of hand, which is where the ownership system was born from. The things you are complaining about is the stuff that has been the norm for years. This video seems like a react developer's point of view. There was absolutely nothing in this video that makes me want to forget rust.
Julia allows you to alter the parser in realtimee
« Rust doesn’t have a run button »
*spills coffee everywhere laughing* Ah JS kids these days
Lol
I was vibing until you actually used Rustc instead of cargo to run :(
This is a misleading if not click-bait video.
Ok buf
I don't think that was a fair take but the one thing that does suck is the compile times and the rust ANALyzer are pretty slow..
Depends on what you want to do with the lang, if u just wanna do business logic stuff sure rust is over killed, if you want to do thing more complicated, rust is definitely the best choice over something like cpp
Omg rust doesnt provide a run button on your code editor. that has to be a really bad language
So this video is just a troll? Like you obviously don't know anything about rust but you're saying it sucks in the style of Fireship
Rip
Comparing Rust with JS or Python IMHO is like comparing oranges to apples, yup both are somehow spheric. Rust is a low level programming language and therefore learning curve is pretty adjusted, compare it to C or C++ and see the whole new world with proper package manager, much much easier than C++.
In Rust you have this complicated abstractions for granted like in python, but have most of the control (even unsafe rust if you wish so) like in C/C++.
"I learnt rust in my bachelors, I know what I'm doing".... proceeds to use rustc instead of cargo. Click bait
SARCASM
you cannot complain about something you are not an expert of
Your problem with installation is related to Windows, not Rust :)
Ok
0:49 - "rust is very hard to learn"
that's it? that's all the reasons "why I should forget about rust forever"?
What is the point of this video? The thumbnail and title make it seem like your going to propose an argument as to why Rust isn't as good as people say it is, which is why I clicked. Instead of that there is an incredibly surface level video with very little knowledge shared and no real argument made beyond "took 15 minutes to install" and "steep learning curve."
just look at gtk4 rust bindings vs gtkmm c++ bindings & u will see why rust is more complicated than it needs to be. inheritence is so much more easy to work with than traits for example.
Ok windows user detected
This guy never programmed in Rust, and still wants to talk about it
Ok bud
To be fair, that's like 99% of people talking about it, including its most dedicated proponents.
Hi, I'm learning Rust without a system programming background. I think every similar language has its own difficulties and advantages behind it all.
Yes, exactly
based rustc enjoyer
lol
If rust would be so bad, you would not even spend time on a video trying oh so hard to paint it in bad light. If it was so bad, no one would have time to hate it so much.
i thought this was a bad aprils fools video
it is
Sorry man, I wouldn’t recommend buying your “Trust me, I know what I am doing” 😄
That’s supposed to be a joke. I said I started learning rust before it even came out
@@MalachiRails I am referring not a year you mentioned but your critiques. Things like how much time it took to install or compilation process has very little todo with Rust or programming in general, and tells me that you are either quite an amature or made this video on purpuse to generate hollyware traffic. If it is the second one, I think your strutegy is good 😁
Reporting this video as misleading
lol
tried rust for 10minutes, recorded a video for youtube in 2 minutes
The Rust syntax is so bloated that I can literally not even find several syntax symbols on my international keyboard. The people who designed this monstrosity have never field tested it.
Ok, thank you for your input .
Fine, I will try to catch exceptions instead.
O. o not using vscode rust extension, or intellij's rust plugin is your first problem, next all languages leak from bad global state, all of them, thats just bad architecture.
15 minute install? What potato are you developing on? Took me less than 10 seconds to install rust.
cmon dude. I literally just started googling to learn rust and this video came up and i already knew about cargo run....
"see you in the next video" - no you won't!
Ok bud
skill issue
Why
@@MalachiRails jk :)
I assume it was kind of a joke video, but still, it might be misleading to beginners, as it focuses on the negative and forgets to give an understanding of its pros, why some of those "negatives" are actually intended and desired, and why it may be the right tool for your problem.
Also, compile times don't suck that bad, yes, they're worse than other languages but it's not that bad, especially if you use proper optimization settings.
@@leonss2356 Fair enough Leonss2356
open terminal and type command is normal, why would you need run button? this is ridiculious. I had use C, PHP, Python, C# and Rust. Compare to others, Rust is not that hard to learn and it help you avoid common trillion dollars bugs that's why people that coding seriously love it
Fair enough
@@MalachiRailsare you the guy in the picture? Looks like you are having great fun getting all the rust guys riled up.
@@nagarajankrishnamurthy3193 honestly it wasn't my intention and im not having fun but yes they are all riled up.
this video feels AI generated
Fair
nope, but stolen: ua-cam.com/video/UkcHAyh_CLs/v-deo.html
RUST happens below C level . . . it's not a joke!
ok
Why I should forgot you in the time being.
look at this silly boy..
Fine video ruined by one little statement: "I miss javascript"
I hate that rust dont have a run button.
Okay, first up, I cringed when you said you knew what you were doing, and then you proceeded to use the `rustc main.rs` command instead of the `cargo run` command, which you are supposed to use! Second up, the Windows installation is a little long... yeah... but me on Linux, it only took 30 seconds or so to install. It is really just a Windows issue. It makes sense, Rust isn't the only programming language that needs to install Visual Studio.
Buy the book man
amzn.to/48dMjEs
I love it because of its "zero cost abstraction" ideology. I dont want any magic to happen behind the scene.
Why did you use the same thumbnail,title and video content as Berr's tech video?, is than even allowed in YT? xd
learning from 2004 and you never mentioned cargo build && run
c'mon 🤣
Xd
When you spend only 3 hours to learn a new programing language :D.
i have that weird feeling where im unsure whether to talk shit, or go with my gut and know this is satire lol
If you don't understand why programmers love certain languages, then you have never programmed
Not really
How could anyone in the right mind love Rust with that terrible syntax? lol
@@matyasmarkkovacs8336 have you programmed in a highly templated c++ environment before?
Or had to debug a really hard to find bug, only to realize that it was something stupid that rust would have detected.
@@matyasmarkkovacs8336 I don't see Rust syntax as terrible. It's regular and makes a lot of sense. C++ is far worse. C is worse. Javascript was OK but recent "enhancements" to the standard are messing that up. Other languages, meh, so so.
Where’s the credit 😢? Even the script 🥲💔
🤣
Fr fr done
Wanted to comment the link to your video but I’m glad you found it yourself 😅
Wasnt Rust started by Mozilla in 2006? But to trust you you started it 2004.
It was a joke
I was legitimately surprised when the video ended instead of hearing "haha jk here is my real rust video"
Now I can't tell if that's the joke
Edit: ok, looked around at the other vids on the channel, definitely satire
I'm still a high school student... Does it make easier to learn rust if you already know c++ ?
Yes
It doesn't work the other way around, unfortunately
That is a trick question. C++ is such a huge and contorted language that no single human knows all its features and how they interact with each other. Rust is much easier.
Arguably, learning any new programming language is easier when you know at least one other language already. "Knowing C++" is a pretty imprecise statement since nobody knows C++ these days. Everyone who claims they do, usually knows up to 60% of C++ and uses about 10% of it. C++ can hardly be considered one programming language at this point. It's a burning pile of shit - a mess containing every feature that anyone in the history of computing thought would be good at some point in time (and found out that it's a fucking awful idea later), all cramped into one compiler.
Rust fixes this AND other glaring problems of both C and C++ while providing the same control and performance AND additionally comes with amazing tooling and extremely helpful compiler error messages which makes it an absolute pleasure to use, if you spend at least 20 minutes openly trying to learn the basics of it (unlike the pathetic moron who made this ridiculously stupid video). Since rust is at its core a "systems programming language", operating at a lower abstraction level than interpreted scripting languages like JS, ruby or python, you will inevitably also learn a lot about computers in general while learning rust, but you don't have to know a lot to get started with it. Start here and enjoy your journey: www.rust-lang.org/learn
Wish UA-cam would bring back the dislike ratio
Fair
The title is misleading.
For game developing with zombie-horde only C++ or Rust. And absolutly sure that not Python. C# has lags in course of garbage collector. So it is actual to make video "C++ or Rust". But right now Rust in developing progress. It will be better after few years.
We'll see
15 minutes to install? takes me less than a minute on non-486dx hardware
Rust doesn't have "innovative features". They are just unknown to the usual script kiddies that only know JavaScript or Python.
If you have some background in functional programming the learning curve isn't that steep at all and the features in Rust are more or less standard.
Sure Rust has innovative features. Adding the borrow checker to a compiled imperative language for example. I know of no other language that has done that. Even the analy safe Ada has take inspiration from that.
Almost nobody has a background in Functional Programming. It is Rust's innovation to add memory safety to a style of language that people can actually understand.
why would you directly call rustc??
Bro took me around 2 mins to install Rust :| check your ecosystem, you are the problem not rust
Ok, thank you for your input .
Uh, wat
bro complaining about a run button after having said he did research for his degree 🤣, get a decent ide broski
The joke wasn’t clear ig