Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
I've NEVER Seen a Memory Stick Like THIS - CAMM Explained
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Try Zoho One free for 30 days with no credit card required here: www.zoho.com/o...
Check out The Ridge's new Beveled Ring Collection at Ridge.com/Linus
Although Dell has a long and storied history history of proprietary BS.. but CAMM is different.
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips....
► GET MERCH: lttstore.com
► SUPPORT US ON FLOATPLANE: www.floatplane...
► AFFILIATES, SPONSORS & REFERRALS: lmg.gg/sponsors
► PODCAST GEAR: lmg.gg/podcast...
FOLLOW US
---------------------------------------------------
Twitter: / linustech
Facebook: / linustech
Instagram: / linustech
TikTok: / linustech
Twitch: / linustech
MUSIC CREDIT
---------------------------------------------------
Intro: Laszlo - Supernova
Video Link: • [Electro] - Laszlo - S...
iTunes Download Link: itunes.apple.c...
Artist Link: / laszlomusic
Outro: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High
Video Link: • Sugar High - Approachi...
Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/UxWkUw
Artist Link: / approachingnirvana
Intro animation by MBarek Abdelwassaa / mbarek_abdel
Monitor And Keyboard by vadimmihalkevich / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/PgGWp
Mechanical RGB Keyboard by BigBrotherECE / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/mj6pHk4
Mouse Gamer free Model By Oscar Creativo / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/Ps3XfE
CHAPTERS
---------------------------------------------------
0:00 - Dell have done it again!
0:40 - Ridge!
0:53 - Dell's recent blunders
1:35 - Why SO-DIMM Sucks
3:58 - CAMM and why it is good
5:18 - Similarities to SO-DIMM
6:23 - Potential problems
8:24 - The Precision 7670
10:05 - Zoho One!
10:50 - Outro
If it becomes a jedec standard, and they also make sure modules are interchangeable, then it seems like the standard might succeed
The problem is the design is patented.
So we wont geat cheap Taiwan Ram with that profile.
Only big company can manufacture it
@@syarifairlangga4608 Have that stopped the chinese once?
@@syarifairlangga4608 Patents need to be established to enforce open source or open standards. Otherwise you have no ability to enforce quality control or open source liscencing requirements.
We do need a new laptop ram standard, with lppddr support honestly
The only thing I care about is that the modules are swappable. Since they are, full steam ahead, I say.
IF other companies decide to use this memory, there is a chance it will take off. I remember when laptop manufacturers had memory that only worked on their laptops and it was stupid expensive to do any upgrades
many still have software locks that prevent just using any RAM
Yep, I've got an old laptop in my collection that takes proprietary memory. (Some push on socket).
@@martinus_mars software locks are a bit of a stretch, they tend to simply not add support for very many types of memory in the bios.
I remember those days as well. Sad time in computing. :(
@@vgamesx1 Systems will tend to read the Memory firmware for Jedec profiles, and failing to find a compatible profile will attempt to run at bios profiles until one works or none work. In most cases, one will work. But BIOS can also be used to software hard lock out certain memory brands, or brands/firmware IDs not specifically in the BIOS approved list. Like say, Patriot DDR4 3200 8 GB SODIMMS will work just fine, but go up to say 16 GB sticks of the same brand speed and timing, and no dice. Or go down to the same timing at 3000 and neither 8 nor 16 GB sticks will work. If it is particular about different specifics within the same brand or different brands with the same specifics, chances are it is a lockout and not a lacking support. You might be surprised what they write into firmware and BIOS. Much like AMD branded memory will rarely work with an Intel CPU, even though it has IDENTICAL specs to supported memory for that CPU, may even be manufactured by a company in that list for AMD branding, but the memory is firmware locked for AMD CPU usage only. 90% of proprietary hardware is because it is run by proprietary software somewhere in there. The physical interface can easily be duplicated. But the firmware and BIOS lock allot out. It's like trying to put an non dell branded GPU in a dell PC. Sure, it came with an RTX 3060 in it, but put any old 3060 or even 3070 into it as a replace or upgrade, and no dice. Has to be a Dell GPU.
It's nice to see that at least some of the benefits of soldered memory, especially unified memory like what SoCs use, are being reproduced by replaceable modules. I don't think anyone actually enjoys being stuck with how much ram they purchased their laptops with, even if they enjoy the benefits that ram brings.
If the price of a 16gb ram laptop costs the same as the same laptop with 8gb + the cost of manually upgrading to 16gb, i'd be fine with it. Same with ssd storage.
@@1ronman1 Yes, but in 2-3 years time, when you actually need the additional RAM, it will be cheaper.
Unified memory has nothing what so ever to do with being soldered!
It juat means the CPU and GPU use the same address space!
@@thedausthed I only mentioned it because in its typical implementation (on arm SoCs), it's soldered with the CPU and GPU.
I was imagining a module that combines a soldered CPU *and* soldered RAM would arrive at some point too.
(Possibly the Mac Pro being the first user.)
I did NOT expect Dell to do anything except fight to keep it propriety.
I'm sure there are great cost savings by doing this, but still it's great!
Kudos to the editor(s) on this one. The animation showing the path of the traces from the CPU to the memory modules was great. Do more of that
Omg I wonder how Dell’s engineers got used to inventing something not evil? It must have been surreal!!
They must have felt bad for themselves doing something good
The engineers are probably psyched they get to make something that so many people will use. The businessmen, probably not so much.
Just like they guys from apple, they let then make something and instead of changing it to a superglued pile of crap they just didn't for once. Glad for once there wasn't some exec making it customer unfriendly. (at least if it becomes a standard outside of dell)
If it takes off as a standard it lower's Dell's costs.
I bet the engineers were actually jumping for joy, but everyone else in charge of raking in cash was shocked and confused lol.
As a decision maker in my IT department, I appreciate these business related device videos.
Keep up the great work!
As someone in an IT department, what do you think about the Framework laptop?
no
@@GeoStreber i’m field support, not a decision maker, but it seems like it makes more work that it’s worth time wise. Dell, HP, lenovo, ect. are too responsive to multibillion dollar companies with thousands of devices. I definitely do believe that’s how consumer products should be!
@@GeoStreber not op but I can answer from my own perspective. Usually at least for me I don't have time to be taking apart devices to replace or upgrade them. We would tend to stick to devices like lenovo because if the device has a component break we call the manufacturer and get them to sort it.
As much as it sucks, repairableity means little to us. What's important is how long it will take from us telling our suppliers that a device was DOA or has faulty component to them sending a guy out to us to fix the issue.
Whats my turn around time if a framework laptop fails 2morrow. What's my downtime and for how long is a staff member without a device for? These are the major selling points for corporations.
The big deal here for me personally is the capacity. I have been waiting for 64gb DIMMS forever, and they are yet to materialize, both in desktop and laptop formfactors. Here they are offering a 128gb 3600mhz package at launch. Sure, its running at DDR4 speeds with probably terrible timings (which do matter for my work :() but the capacity is finally here!
What? 64GB 3600MHz CAS 16-19 DIMM has been out for years.
Wow, what could utilize 256GB (assuming you'd want to load out a 4 slot Mobo...)
@@volvo09 Finally, the second Chrome tab of course /s
@@h.m.chuang0224 😆
@@h.m.chuang0224 😂😂👍
4:40 that image is pretty misleading. They're saying it's 57% thinner than having a stack of two dimm sockets. That means that a single dim socket is almost the same thickness. Given that it's twice as wide as the dim socket it appears as though it would take up about the same room as two dimm sockets. I can't remember the last time I saw a laptop with more than two dimm sockets.
This is a much better approach than Lenovo's soldered dimms for business users
Soldered dimms are fine for business. They won't upgrade and if something breaks they just send it to the manufacturer.
@@skilllessbeast7416 on a conceptual level sure. In practice they have one 8gb soldered dimm and one slot. 8gb is pretty useless, so you have to take the machine apart for a usability upgrade to 16, but if you wanted 32 you're out of luck even though the rest of the laptops hardware is suited nicely.
@@tommymaddox6785 Probably you can put a 32GB module into that slot. I just did that with my notebook that came with 8GB soldered + 8GB slotted ram. Now I have 40GB ram and it works fine. Speed is also looks similar than before. Maybe Linus can investigate this kind of dual channel performance.
@@azbesthu I have an Asus zephyrus g14 with a soldered on ram module that's 8gbs, with a socketed ram for upgrades. I upgraded to 32gbs of ram in that slot making it 40 gbs of ram
@@skilllessbeast7416 Yep, I don't understand why my job use thick fully upgradable laptops if they replace them by brand new computers as soon as there's an issue anyways.
Some laptops have a "card edge" DIMM slot where the DIMMS slots are on the edge of the MB - in the "middle of the height" of the board - doing it this way makes the DIMM slots a ZERO factor in height as the board itself is taller than the DIMM slot with memory.
@@marcogenovesi8570 Not a hole, just a 1/4" deep. few inch wide, notch taken out of one of the sides.
@@phaZed9 still might add complexity.
@@Guru_1092 I guess my point is, they already do it, so the bit about manufacturers complaining about "height" is really a non-issue, already.
i think some macbooks have that feature
They roast comparing height to quad slots as in two stacked side by side not a single one as shown in the video
Part of my first PC upgrade in 1999 was going from SIMM to DIMM memory. I saw displays at Electronics Boutique (long before it was EB Games) for the Voodoo3 line and wanted to get a 3000, but knew my 1997 Pionex PC from Sam's Club wasn't going to cut it. I went to a local PC store, picked out a motherboard with AGP and upgraded my CPU from an Pentium MMX 200 to an AMD K6-2 233. What I didn't think of was the memory, the old MB took SIMM and the new one took DIMM. I remember calling the store and asking if there was anything I could do and the guy mentioned something called a SIMM socket adapter that would let me run SIMM on the DIMM slot, but they didn't sell one. I looked in a parts catalogue (probably Tiger Direct) I had and found one listed. It was a weird looking thing, normally you'd think it would just be a thing that converts the pin count directly, but it was more like a board that stuck out of the DIMM slot and the SIMM modules can be inserted into the sides like a T. In the end I just went back to the store and bought new DIMM RAM. I've recently tried looking one of these adapters up, but haven't had any luck.
Dell really has strayed so far from being easy to repair/replace parts. My Precision M6700 from 2013 is literally one of the most modular laptops I've ever owned. My son uses it now, but even its CPU and GPU are interchangeable. Along with having various ports, connectivity, 2 x 2.5" drive bays, a mSATA slot, and 4 RAM slots. Everything can be changed for some form of aftermarket replacement, save for the display, keyboard, speakers, etc. Mine in particular has the i7-3720QM and Quadro K4000M (with an unlocked VBIOS, so it's capable of being OC'ed)
Edit: This honestly seems like a decent approach at least, seeing as if they're successful with having it become a widely accessible standard, it'll (hopefully) be used by other OEMs like Asus or Lenovo. I can see this being a genuinely impactful change, if it's executed properly. Let's hope Dell doesn't drop the ball on it, cause let's be honest...this is also the company that thought it was a good idea to use a wonky ass 120mm AIO with a 12900K LOL
this is why i dont get dell hardware anymore cause of their anti repair mentality and proprititary nonsense is another reason to avoid them
Got a Dell Inspiron 1545 from 2011, and I've upgraded its RAM, SSD, replaced the DVD Drive with a second SSD and even upgraded the frigging CPU!
So much has changed in the last 10 years for the worse, though I'm happy to see there is some pressure nowadays on the industry to make servicable devices again.
@@billyhatcher643 I make the mistake of getting the Inspiron 7567 a couple years ago, mainly to just have something "decent" when I'm on a trip or away from home for a while. It was only around $300 USD, sporting an i5-7300HQ + 1050 Ti w/ 16GB RAM (CPU struggles these days, but it still does what I need it to). Still, I was disappointed to see that the only "hot swappable" parts are the m.2 drive, 1 x 2.5" drive bay, and 2 x RAM slots. Everything else is either soldered, or proprietary
120mm aios aren't that bad with a good amount of surface area and good fans. It'll probably perform the same as larger but mediocre 360 ones. Also, CPUs and GPUs were socketed even on laptops in the past, but thanks to AMD and Intel they're now tied to their motherboards. It's just sad how much we're going towards making sure that such expensive products become ewaste within a few years of production.
Yeah I had an XPS laptop from right before they purchased Alienware, so around 2007 I think. You could even replace the GPU without much effort.
4:41 I like their specific use of a 4x SODIMM double sided) to make the point that it's 57% thinner....
So that means it is only 3% thinner than a single sided SODIMM. You need a motherboard with memory sockets on both sides to have any real affect on size.
They use 4 SODIMMs double sided because a single module can REPLACE 4 SODIMMs double-sided. Putting workstation-capacity memory into a case as thin as MacBooks is no small feat.
Let's also not ignore the rather crucial performance pitch from these. Anything that stops manufacturers from just soldering the memory on is an improvement, and performance is a big factor for that.
It still misses out on SODIMM sticks' benefit of just expanding memory instead of replacing it altogether. But we're long past the point of worrying about _that_.
and that's a good thing ! it means OEMs don't have carte blanch to make their laptops even thinner.
If this truly allowed for thinner laptops, you know OEMs will not resist and will cut down on cooling, battery size, anything to make it thinner
@@BeerDone 32GB SODIMM modules are trivial to find nowadays, and the market for more than 64GB (32x2) is basically non existant on laptops.
Your point holds no water, this is just dell doing dell shenanigans again, this 'standart' is a dud.
I would have been more confident in this being successful if they had released multiple products with this type of memory at the same time to show that they are serious about making it a thing but maybe they have and they just weren't mentioned in the video. "I'll believe it when I see it" is where I'm at I guess.
Totally a fair point. The fact that they are willing to stake the Precision line-up though is some confidence boost for me. Hopefully this or something like it does eventually come along to replace SODIMM. Dell does try a bit harder to not screw over the business side of their company. Hopefully they can take that and apply it to the general consumer side again.
This kind of content is very much appreciated, even if it doesn't get the views. Especially as one of the I.T. professionals that will be working with this tech hopefully in the future.
We have received a couple of these laptops at work. They are horribly unstable. We have 4 of them and all of them crash regularly during such dangerous operations as plugging in a headphone or a monitor.
I'd recommend to wait.
That was a really good edit to show the path the traces were taking, I enjoyed that
I love this channel. I can leave for months/years and come back and the content is still the same quality and vibe. Been watching since 2012/13
I owned one of their PCs back in the day with RAMBUS RDRAM. This sounds like a more solid idea and implementation, so I hope there is more adoption.
Not alot of people got to use RD; good ole days
RAMBUS never caught on because it was a closed standard that required licenses, increasing RAM cost significantly. Intel pushed RAMBUS while AMD pushed DIMM, and the cost savings far outweighed the performance gains of RAMBUS.
RAMBUS was still used in Intel CPU more recently as an inner CPU communication standard between CPU cores.. not sure if the most recent Intel CPU are still using it or not.
Will never forget one of the first companies I worked for who contracted me to upgrade the RAM capacities in their fleet of Dell PC's. All of the PC's were the same model and used standard DIMM's, except one of them, which was the CEO's computer. I showed up and made my way through upgrading all of them until I got to the CEO's office. Got the new DIMM's out of the package, cracked open the case and got ready to install it.... and it was F*&%@ RAMBUS. Informed the CEO that I didn't realize his PC was using RAMBUS and I'd need to order new modules for it. Came back 3 days later and finished the job, but the CEO was not impressed and did not contract me again for future work. Thanks for that Dell!
Ah rambus what a lovely time. Glad I dodged that bullet
RAMBUS died for the same basic reason BETA did - stupid licencing costs.
Been a long time, but I seem to recall there were some issues with speed limitations, too?
Oh boy, thats going to be a game changer IF it sticks around. That design could be use for normal motherboardsd as well if adopted right, mebbe, who knows.
Dell and Alienware have been practicing the "upgradable laptop" nonsense for years. I once was suckered into buying an Alienware Area51 7700m. It lasted me about 9 months before the motherboard died. I was so angry I disassembled it and found that the design was flawed from the start. Basically designed to fail.. it didn't perform well either for a $2700.+ Laptob in 2005. The xbox 360 mopped the floor with my Alienware Area 51 7700m.
Well the difference between desktop and laptop performance was huge back then
That's way beyond any other manufacturer who haven't even tried
@@gg2324 lol you mean the time when sff / laptops were stuck with web browsing only? you dont say...
@@mikeymaiku i remember having a laptop with a gtx285m and it was pretty much equal to a 8800 gtx from 2 generations before (and it costed more than my desktop with 2x 8800gtx)
Meanwhile simple acer from the xbox360 era still going strong, apart from dodgy hd
If signal integrity is such a problem, why do desktop PCs have the exact same DIMMs as always and we get the good speeds too?
I work in IT right now and we got 10 of these in last week. All of the lvl 2 techs and I were crowded around one to take it apart to look at it. I was waiting for this video.
It seems pretty cool if they can get the standards and sizes dialed in. Love the idea. My only concern is with it being a single module, You can't reuse some memory modules like you can with current memory.
Testing ram failures will be more annoying if it only has a single module, so troubleshooting might get a bit more expensive requiring an entire redundant module just for testing, fine if your upgrading, not so good if you weren't planning on it
How this reads: dell is working on proprietary bullshit
How this watches: dell is working on an open standard that has the potential to turn into proprietary bullshit
that graphic on the laptop showing the ram traces was top teir good job editors !!!!
Thank you and everyone working at LTT. I’ve been a long time consumer of your content. And this video is tier one in explaining your points. This is free to me to watch, and I never forget that. Take care everyone!
The size difference by capacity is such a big problem for the new memory. The old SODIMMs do NOT really have the same problem
SODIMMS have very similar problem. Some devices have 2 SO-DIMM slots when outhers (typically larger ones) - 4 SO-DIMM slots with capability to have 2x the RAM amount.
The tiny contact pads make me worried about the longevity of this. The vastly smaller contact area means that it won’t take much to break a connection. I see the compression connector is removable, but what is it made of? Like is it a slightly softer plaster that will help seal the contacts once under compression?
Love the nod to Ryan Reynolds’s in Harold and Kumar go to White Castle at 1:54, hilarious and worth the effort to this viewer!
It is surprising that no one had asked for manufacturers to step away from thin and light (which it had existed decades ago), and into more cooling that can save the laptop from cooking itself to death.
i have no life, i saw this vid in 48 seconds of its publishing now i go watch the video
watching LTT everyday is a part of my day and yes I have nothing better to do, loner life
5 mins after release, I am part of the no life club
@@CrackemLIVE we with a warm heart welcome u here
I love how your comment was posted before the video was for me. Really emphasizes the point.
@@brandonbeckius3799 we live in a society.
Ill believe in the "upgradeability" when i see non-dell modules for sale.
Desktops that are wayy more powerful than these laptops still use dimms, so I dont believe the BS about signalling. What they actually mean is "improving the traces in laptops would require money, so instead we used the _dell way_ "
In desktops, the memory is vertical, which allows the traces to often be shorter than laptops.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 they still have to go from the CPU to the DIMM slot which can actually be further on desktop MB than laptops. Orientation of the DIMM itself doesn't change much.
Pretty sure they said in the vid that it's not much of a problem 'yet' but is expected to be 'soon', particularly once we get into DDR6.
This is a forward looking standard aimed at solving an anticipated problem proactively before it becomes a major issue rather than trying to solve it reactively.
You're right to be skeptical about adoption as it's a brand new standard and I wouldn't be totally surprised to see a competing standard arise soon. But if this stuff turns out to be good and is offered as an open standard I also wouldn't be surprised to see the industry piggy back on Dells work just to save on R&D costs to get around the problems that this tech solves.
Just gonna have to wait and see.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 True, but EPYC also uses DDR5 and it can support 12 channels of memory. This means that the outer two dimms are pretty far from the cpu. It is however, pretty close to the limit, i will admit that. 24 dimms is supported by the cpu, but making it actually work has proven very challenging.
@@gabrielenitti3243 My whole point was that the trace from the CPU to the DIMM slot is often shorter on a desktop than a laptop.
Obviously in servers and high end workstations with lots of DIMM slots this doesn't hold up, but those systems also usually use ECC and run much looser timings.
I'm not really seeing the benefit here. Ok, yeah the machine gets a thinner memory module and instead trades horizontal space. That's ok for low end machines that have large empty voids in their chassis, but higher end devices that maximize internal space? Idk. Soldering everything down still maximizes space, speed, and profits for the manufacture.
But the benefit is obvious and it was also the main point of this video. So kinda strange that you don't see it?!
Higher speed (in the future) than SODIMM while still being upgradeable.
I think that is an awesome spec and I hope that other manufacturers should jump on for laptops. Framework??? But they are more to any upgrade over the counter, so better once it's adopted by everyone before they get it.
If this is as free to use as Dell claims - I would love for Framework to try it. Thanks to their drop-in motherboards it could even be added separately from the rest of the machine! Although... the motherboard is... quite... a lot, of the machine.
Hear me out, Dell's 6-8 pin power standard is also pretty nice, too. It came out way before anyone had the idea for ATX 12vo and it was a nice way to minimize things inside of the system and reduce the cord count and overall cost
You know if only they made it in Industry standard first so it was actually useful and could be used elsewhere and didn't require buying proprietary parts
When did people have the idea for ATX 12VO?
Cannot stress enough that it’s the size of TWO sodimm modules…
But flatter, in theory.
Even though they usually get less views, these more technical videos are fantastic and itch that computer geek in me that wants to know how everything works. Videos that cover these new standards are also nice because it's a great way to get the point across to a wider audience. Please more
Love when you guys break out the probe lens!
Not in a million years will OEMs all adopt this. That’s just how they roll. Each will add their own “special” design to it as a selling point.
They adopted SODIM.
OEM's also benefit from standards. Usually in cheap manufacturing costs. (Albeit, that rarely leads to more profit, customers benefit there as well)
1.5 years later, it's finally out on a real device.
Aaaaand Micron and Samsung came out with LPCAMM and LPCAMM 2
omg the "but why" harold and kumar reference with linus caught me off guard... LOL.. well done.
It finally here with CAMM2 and LPCAMM2
Now bring back MXM modules for Laptop Graphics Cards !
you don't need that many pins for pcie 4 or pcie5, 8 lanes on pcie4 is more then enough, and 4 if it's pcie5.
I think it's time for CXL 2.0 for both RAM and GPU
After dealing with Dell's proprietary crap for years... Its hard for me to think Dell is doing this out of the goodness of their heart.
they want an easier time designing laptops I'm sure
Could be for easier maintenance, if you're not a company like apple that can open a store in every part of the world you would have a much easier time troubleshooting and fixing a modular machine rather than replace the motherboard every time, or if it's accessible enough you might be able to send the costumer instructions how to do it themselves because the parts are widely available on the market.
Nice intro to yet another memomry module. It looks similar to some printer memory expansion modules. The reason for soldered on memory is a) increased reliablilty, and b) cost - one or more less connector sockets per motherboard. It is worse when the ssd is soldered on, like some cheap lenovo's, where you can't recover your data if the board dies. having at least one memory expansion slot with a soldered memory system is better than none, and probably a reasonable compromise. I am surprised that the industry hasn't moved to optical data linkage between chips to remove the speed/noise/timing limitations of copper wire. An optical version of pcie.
Someone in the film crew has a great eye for details. That shot at 9:54 is absolutely beautiful. They definitely put thought into the combination of laptop stand and laptop wallpaper.
We'll see. I personally don't have too much hope for Dell as they consistently produce worse and worse products for their consumers, year on year. I'm all for new technologies and new standards but I'm unsure if it'll become something of value if Dell is the main driving force in it all.
I remember it was 1968 a little company named intel was born in a garage. I was a senator and a leader of my black church and I told them theyd go real far kid real far and they had a ramrod of a backbone That's where they got the name ram from. True story, folks.
RAM was invented at Fairchild Semiconductors in 1963. Intel was founded by two former employees of Fairchild.
@@katrinabryce FALSE. C'mon folks let's get real this isn't Fox news. I invented rams the year was 1968 I was knee high to a corncob where I raised the flag. Thanks
I mean they could just bring back socketed ram chips, just need to develop a socket that has a lock and release on it and then it wont vibrate out like old DIP chips and is easy to remove.
I really like these Videos with this Presantator. Give away old Linus Vibes with his craziness
Honestly, I’m surprise that Dell doesn’t sell their proprietary RAM separately. I’d imagine that desktops can more easily fit their large RAM module. Plus it’d help with upgrading the RAM in existing laptops (with the proper changes to the laptop’s internals).
I don't think they expect this to become a desktop standard, as there is always more space in the case.
There is no limitation on desktop memory like the laptop though so it doesn't make sense
I cannot remember what it was called anymore. But I bought into the "new" ram, at the time, I think it was called rdram or something. Supposed to be the new thing. Except licensing and other issues caused it to go nowhere. Like this, it could have been great. But due to corporate BS ended up being trash. A waste of time and money.
RDRAM actually had serious issues like crazy high access latency and higher cost-of-manufacture, as well as strange quirks like needing terminator cards in empty slots
DDR became the standard for a reason, really
@@jimjam742 I don't doubt it, it was a long time ago. Just remember the costs associated with it meant it didn't get developed as much as it could have. I lost out that time, lessons learned. After that I no longer bothered being an early adopter on any tech stuff. And this dell stuff brought some flashbacks.
I love that you all Segway. That way I can skip the ads. Hope that doesn't hurt your ability to get placements? (:
Good information though and I would hope this new standard takes off. I am not hopeful since soldering already solves a lot of the issues with current laptops and consoles.
Flashback to the MXM 'standard'.
That motherboard is proprietary in two ways really. It not only does not work with an ATX power supply but it also looks custom made to fit their custom cases. I avoid ultra thin laptops at all costs because I know that to make them so thin those compromises are made. Also to help save space they might have X16 RAM in them which can give you a performance hit. It is like when you look inside a Dell or similar prebuilt system and see that one DIMM with just a few memory chips on it. They only did it to save on manufacturing costs, nothing more! The worst thing is they might not pass any of the savings on to you leaving you with a mediocre laptop for a premium price!
Yeah no. Can easily just move SODIMM slots closer or dont have the connectors pointing down. Point them up and just put them next to the CPU.
If it were that easy, they would have done it already. JEDEC tests every configuration
Every time you buy a Dell an Angel rips it's wings.
I like the precision stuff for my personal use as I think they are tougher (My precision M4800 took a tumble off a washing machine and works fine, though the chassis has a winkle in a couple spots.) Since I typically use laptops as mobile desktops that I setup and leave in like a hotel room I dont mind the weight and size, in fact having room for a numpad is a requirement. I also think it handles being in a ram mount in my truck or car while Im datalogging better without any extra screen support. I bought my M4800 as a barely used "refirb" that had the original 3 year warranty minus 2 or 3 months. Someday soon I'd like to replace it and that 7670 would be awesome.
The editing is amazing and his energy is more then what I have
Why do I feel like if Apple did something like that you guys would be super negative. This is still a work in progress and far from being complete, thus this is simply propriatary RAM module but we call it a good thing now? How is this different from the "no brain" SSD in Macs that was made to also cut on latancy and improve performance? This isn't different case - Isn't it? I see those double standards all over the channel whenver the thing is actually sponsored, but got acustomed to it by now tho.
Because those "no brain" SSD cannot be replaced?
Because it's not limited to Dell (or Apple).
@@nickthaskater It is - just because they work on making their technology standard doesn't mean it will go through. As is - IT IS PROPRIATARY and limited to Dell only. As presented it also doesn't actually change anything - it's exactly the same performance - it gives you supposedly benefits, but none were actually implemented. Just because someone works with standard body doesn't mean their solution will become a standard or will be used as a leverage to create propriatary standard down the road. No other company involved other than Dell and JDEC here is a huge red flag. In networking it's common knowledge how things like this turn out - look EIGRP agains OSPF for example. Give me an actuall standard - not a promise of it making it look like it's happening already.
@@LaCroix05 They can be replaced - the thing that actually dies most often and degrades over time (memory cells) is swapable on Apple's SSDs. It can't be upgraded tho if that's what you meant. The thing both have in common now is that you won't replace those with off the shelf part - both require involvement of the manufacturer as we are working with propriatary technology. When it comes to upgrade argument - assuming that those dimms can be upgraded as they are now - moving controler to CPU is just one step further on optimisation in SSD space and will come to PCs eventually as it's just superiour way to handle that - just like happened with north bridge. Writing is on the wall - the industry will just need to catch up and it might take them a while. If Qualcomm finaly enters the PC market with ARM, I'm pretty sure this will be inevitable.
What I'm really after here is narration of LTT on such matters and the tone. When Apple does things like that it's: "morons, close you off with propriatary bullshitf", while when Dell does the same thing in principle it's "this is much better engineering, but be wary". It's just the way they write the script as even with Apple's stuff they indeed went through the benefits. Still decided to antagonise, while here the overall vibe is neutral, but leaning into positive side.
This packaging has a major limitation IMHO. The modules can only be placed parallel to the motherboard, whereas SODIMM's and DIMM's can be placed either parallel or perpendicular to the motherboard. Small form factor computers such as NUC's will be left out in the cold.
If someone designed a right-angle connector for the RAM it might be more universal.
In a past life I did many high speed PCB layouts so I do appreciate this design for equalizing trace lengths.
When I watched the video (on my phone) I thought I had seen this laptop somewhere before. I went to the my room and got a shock it was the same laptop. I got it from the hardware exchange at work two weeks ago. I admit that it is insanely fast and I had no idea that I was using the new standard of ram memory. I need to take a look under the case myself in my spare time.
Dell, the King of propretary stuff
I really want sodimm to remain, but be improved. Mostly because it looks like that new medium could take more space, unless one of that new module has the same speed as two high speed sodimm, then I’d take the new upgrade for laptops, since it will also be smaller.
But well…. When a laptop is that thin, it’s a bad idea especially if it’s a gaming laptop that needs more space for good fans and cooling.
I think the same and all of the caveats of SODIMM I think can be easily overcome, cable length, rotate the module, height in the motherboard, cut the motherboard where the RAM would go so instead of having the SODIMM connector on top of the motherboard and the RAM protruding in its own board, you could have the SODIMM connector in that cut, right where the board ends and the hole begins you put the connector in there in such a what that when you put the module on would basically be like a continuation of the motherboard being no higher that the motherboard substrate, excepting a little bit of the connector and maybe the memory chips on the module itself.
One could argue about the space that that takes out of the motherboard but is not like under the RAM you had many things going on and/or when the RAM is soldered there is nothing more in that space of the motherboard than the RAM, so what I say is basically why not where you would put soldered ram cut that area and put a SODIMM in its place like a motherboard extension
That physical connector looks an awful lot like the PERC mezzanine SAS controller slot on the 13th+ gen PowerEdge servers.
2:57 when he said that I thought he was going to say "underneath these memory modules, back up through the connector, *like a speed demon* "
Everyone is raving about the proprietary M1 cause it's genuinely very good
So long as the software works as expected, most people don't care if the hardware is proprietary
To be fair, pretty much all cpus are proprietary, with the possible exception of risc v. Only intel gets to make i7s, after all
@@Parker8752 yeah but with the M1 it's also the RAM, the GPU and everything else they've thrown into it
I don't get the benefits... it's thinner than a DOUBLE stack DIMM?! Whut? Signal lines to CPU are shorter, really? How is that not just a layout optimization that could be achieved with the old standard as well?!
It's kinda like how the older Asus ROG laptops used to have proprietary MXM replaceable gpus but they had an extrusion like how Dell does some of their mobos. Normal rectangular shape and then.... a 1.5" x 1" jutting off to the side and also how they used to have four memory slots but you had to remove the mobo from the laptop to access 2.
looking forwards to no longer having to deal with dissimilar ram modules for upgrades. too many laptops ship with 1 module, good luck finding an identical second module.
not to mention those with 1 soldered and one sodimm
I’m no fan of proprietary anything. The only thing I want to be proprietary is the log I leave in the toilet every morning.
Brb gonna reverse engineer your log!
@@ismaeltorres3219 NOOOOOO That was a highly engineered and meticulously sourced log!
Open source logs for better compatibility with the toilet
literally first, why is the video unlisted?
Wdym?
recorded a day earlier
It’s not, it’s just been unlisted if I had to guess
Problem with laptops, if I can't at least pop the back lid to swap ram, hdd, and battery, I really don't want it unless I am strap for extra light weight and compact. However, I go with 17" laptop with room for swapping parts if I need to or want to.
Did I just get called an "Elder Nerd?" 🤣 7:14
Yes it is.
So I can filter it out when shopping.
Thanks Dell.
"Mechanically, this design is very novel" If by that you mean a shrunken version of the giant boards used in the early 1990s. Kind of love that we've come full circle in a way.
The interface looks really interesting. However, i am not sure if I missed it or it was not shown, but how is the connection between the module and the base board made? Some interconnect module to be squeezed between module and base board?
Since connectors also add some signal integrity issues, due to the fact that the pins/springs in the connector become significant signal line stubs, I think this is really where technology should go. It's a bit similar to the interface between CPUs and Mainboards.
So getting into the speeds where the bottleneck is not the silicon anymore, but rather the PCB and connectors is quite mind blowing to me.
This is definitely a great move forward although I keep thinking of the "co-packaged optics" Intel presented a keynotes (maybe two) ago, where they literally connected fiber optic links directly to the CPU or SoC, imagine if you connect your ram in that way to the CPU, It should make the problem of getting your ram physically as close as possible a thing of the past (in theory). Suddenly all the connections to memory, GPU, etc would be way faster and more reliable. I'm surprised there has been very little talk about this, it would be revolutionary
I’ve rocked precision mobile workstations exclusively for the last decade and I have been nothing but pleased with them. They last longer than counterparts (it’s 2023 and I’m still using a 2018 variant) and the build system stability is stellar. I’ll probably be upgrading again this year to something with E/P cores so this is great info!
it would have been really nice if the actual hardware was highlighted, the connector was briefly shown and not examined, removal was shown very briefly. the module's connection to the motherboard seems to be one of the more interesting aspects of this and it was basically ignored. the physical sodimm connector was shown and explained in much greater detail than the new item that you were highlighting. weird.
This sounds like a standard that will have low adoption rate for DDR5, while it has potential to be the main standard for DDR6.
Looked to me like that Dell slide about "57% thinner" is comparing to a double stack of SODIMM. Just food for thought for accuracy.
5:06 I did not realize Atrioc worked at LTT
4:51 it's 57% thinner... of a double layered SO-DIMM. AND it doesn't account for the mounting brackets, meaning it isn't thinner at all...
I look forward to seeing this more in laptops. Higher speeds and lower latency ram means faster igpu
Alex: Soldered RAM is "completely un-upgradeable"
dosdude1: hold my beer
😂😂😂
“Smurt currrrd reader”? @ 08:33
😂
As an older precision owner, the 2012 model year M4700 i can confirm they are TRUE powerhouses as far as workstations, and a pleasure to use or service. I am STILL using it as a dependable media server after over 10 YEARS! With a few cheap ebay upgrades at year 5, it's running 3.1ghz (3.6 boosted) with 4 cores, not great for now days but incredible for the time and excellent to this day (as a media and botting server)
Good on dell for doing something to help out for once. I know it’s still for profit and marketing, but we benefit greatly from it.
Dell have been innovators forever but haters refuse to see it.
Where did you find that adapter? I'm looking everywhere online and can't seem to find it.
HA I love the Linus "But Why?" Parody clip!
I always thought it odd that laptops had much slower speeds than desktop, despite having much shorter pathing to the CPU. I suspect it has been cost cutting measures
With SODIMM the distance to module can be almost as short as soldered RAM if you change the layout to have a single sodimm on either side of the CPU socket
The issue is more so the design has gone to thinner and thinner and lighter and lighter. And the false dichotomy that that means it is better.
@@LainK1978 but thinner and lighter should allow for shorter paths, thus better integrity, allwowing for both higher frequency, and loiwer latency, but someohow laptops top out at 3600C22 and desktops can easily hit 5000C19, i've got a 5700G that will hit 4933C17-17-17-28 in 1:1 with geardown dissabled
1:53 they remade the funni "but why" scene from a movie i haven't seen very similarly XD
Why isn't trace length a problem on desktop motherboards? Aren't they even further away?
3:50 the zigzaging is length compensation. All wires need to be the same length. No, those zigzags are no reason to increase distance. You could compensate run time differently.
If it height of SODIMM is an issue why they make a cut on the motherboard and place the connector in there, so when a module is in, would be at the same height of the rest of the motherboard excepting the minuscule amount of the DRAM chips and half the connector at the bottom
0:39 "Man that Noctua Jumper looks nice" -> 0:40 "Oh my god that's an ugly jumper"
LOVED The Harold and Kumar Ryan Reynolds tribute! Truly awesome!