Sam Harris and Cenk Uygur Clear the Air on Religious Violence and Islam
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- Опубліковано 22 жов 2014
- Sam Harris (Author, neuroscientist, Co-founder of Project Reason) and Cenk Uygur (Host of The Young Turks) have a discussion about religion. Sam and Cenk also address questions from the audience.
/ samharrisorg
www.samharris.org/
I think it's very racist how Sam Harris mops the floor with Cenk.
HAHaaaaah
My coffee came out of my nose...
That's gross, that's racist!
haha great one!
+Robert J Barnes I love this comment
LOL the number of times Sam Harris spends 5-10 minutes trying to explain a complex point of argument, Cenk utterly fails to understand it, and Harris just facepalms silently and says "Let's move on..."
because cent is an idiot
Samantha Brenner
He's been completely consistent on this issue. If you read his books, you'll recognize the same arguments as you see him using here. The true hypocrisy is that after hearing (and claiming to understand) all of these arguments from Harris himself in the three hours he generously granted to TYT, Cenk continued to slam Harris WITH THE SAME MISREPRESENTATIONS OF HIS VIEWS THAT HE WAS ATTACKING BEFORE THE INTERVIEW. it's absolutely baffling - until you realize that maybe Cenk really is too dense to be able to wrap his head around the actual arguments Harris is making.
+Anette Edington Fiddy?
lol just trolling everywhere.
"Ok Sam well now I'm going to tell you why I think you're wrong".
As a Historian, I do need to make some corrections regarding both Cenk's and Sam's remarks about the Middle Ages. Cenk in particular seems to have been greatly influenced by TV documentaries, which unfortunately depict Europe's Middle Ages as an extremely bleak, barbaric and bruel time. This is largely a modern spin, however, as Sam pointed out. Contrary to Cenk's assertion, Europe DID have libraries; many of them in fact. One of the largest and most famous medieval libraries was that of the monastery of St. Gallen in Switzerland. It still exists today and it can be visited (it's a really beautiful place). Medieval libraries were private but this was equally true for the ones found in the Arab world. Public libraries are a very recent phenomenon in world history. Europeans also founded universities as early as the 12th century. The late Middle Ages in particular were a time of great learning and innovation. To claim that all the Christians back then were fanatics is ludicrous. There was an entire class of clerics who were really pious but ALSO very interested in the natur al sciences, medicine, engineering etc.. Today we call them scholastics. Scholasticism was highly influential in the history of science and philosophy and the Renaissance likely wouldn't have been possible without it. The Middle Ages also weren't as cruel as is often believed today. For example medieval people did NOT burn anyone at the stake. There were no witch hunts. All of these events happened during Early Modern times (16th-18th c.). Even the inquisition didn't really get going until Early Modern times. This is important because something significant happened right at the end of the Middle Ages: the reformation. Contrary to popular belief, it was the Protestants, NOT the Roman Catholic Church, who harbored deeply sexist, anti-semitic and otherwise toxic beliefs. This actually makes sense when you look at what these people preached. All the famous Protestant preachers used the phrase "sola la scriptura". Today we'd call them religious fundamentalists because this is literally what they were. They believed that only the Bible mattered and that it should be interpreted to the letter. The most radical of these religious zealots called themselves Puritans and ended up moving to North America. This is another common misconception about history by the way: the Puritans weren't pushed out of Europe. In fact, most European kingdoms at the time (and the UK in particular) treated them with a great deal of tolerance. The UK under Elizabeth I. even enacted some protections for Jews, so why would they hunt down fellow protestants? In truth, the Puritans WANTED to leave because they couldn't stomach the liberal values in Europe. They moved to North America specifically so they could build their own little theocracy over there, being sure that no one would bother them in their fanaticism. Lastly a word about anti-semitism during the Middle Ages: while anti-semitism doubtlessly existed, Historians generally differentiate between structure and events. It's important to do so because if we don't, we get a very twisted view of the past. For example natural catastrophes were singular events, they weren't structure. Now, in the case of anti-semitism, pogroms did occur but they didn't occur every day or even every year. Let's not forget that we're talking about a time spain of 1,000 years here! Not every person in the Middle Ages was a raging anti-semite; in fact, the overwhelming majority probably wasn't. People in the past weren't different from us today, they had just as much empathy and love as we do. People did have far less information back then of course but nowdays we've got a lot of fake news. In my opinion, religion certainly contributed to anti-semitic pogroms but it wasn't the decisive factor. The decisive factor was the lack of law enforcement. If 200 neonazis today would try to commit a pogrom in Cologne, the city government would immediately call on their police force and perhaps the federal government would even call in some military unit. Medieval cities did not have this option, so once a pogrom got going, there was very little anyone could do to stop it. And while it is true that Jews were prohibited from taking on various jobs, which is doubtlessly anti-semitic, they often excelled in fields such as medicine or trading, where they were usually highly respected by their Christian peers. So, it's important to be very nuanced about these things.
This was a very insightful and interesting read, thank you for sharing! Out of curiosity, do you have any material like books or fact based historical websites you would recommend to someone like myself whos not very knowledgeable on these things?
All that shit for 5 likes
@@TrunksG-or4swell it’s 9 so it’s worth it..
Gem 💎
@ConnorGrayaon-or4sy @SADGOD633 Now it’s 10 likes so I think he’s finally got enough likes to feed his family and live in peace now and forever.
Holy crap this is 9 years old and literally nothing is different. This is so depressing.
yup, now he thinks nazis were benign...
@@welliamd2463I just heard around 30% of evangelicals believe they'll have to resort to violence to maintain America.
I wish we had stats about how many Germans voted for the Nazi party when Hitler rose to power... I wonder if it's a plurality of support around 1/3rd...
@@welliamd2463He said Nazism is benign by comparison to Jihadism. If we’re being remotely charitable it’s pretty clear that he was just trying to say that Jihadism is worse than Nazism, not that the Nazis were literally benign. I mean let’s use our thinkers for a second here; you really think Harris thinks that the Nazis were benign despite everything he’s said in condemnation of them and of the Holocaust? Come on now brother. The very fact that he’s using Nazism as his point of comparison with Jihadism in and of itself tells you that he thinks Nazism is bad.
Sam Harris: The Sun is hot.
Cenk: I agree and disagree and this is why.
Cenk: Well, you're not even mentioning the military.
Sam Harris: ...What? Cenk, we're talking about the sun.
Art'uro TM could not agree more
Sam Harris: The sun is hot.
Cenk: Why yes sam, it is hot. Everything is hot. Heat is the random motion of atoms a vibration. Its only hotter, relative to us. To a supernova it would be cold. Its all relative...a mixture.
How it really went.
SwagWagen (incorrect spelling, btw) didn't even watch the video.
He didn't even watch it. Did not watch the video. Yet here he is telling us how it went.
Tell me that's not amazing. That there exists a human being that could spend their time doing such a thing.
Skindoggiedog, his name is a play on words with "Volkswagen" i believe, so its the the correct spelling and not relevant to any discussion thats currently happening in any way/shape/form, back on topic now...
I think that's a very accurate assumption of how the hypothetical argument would have happened...
The ridiculous thing about this interview is that Cenk actually believes he has the upper hand and is outwitting him. It's amazing how oblivious he is to how badly he got beaten. It's like he can't stop being smug and conceited, regardless of how foolish he looks.
that is a personality flaw that Cenk has even to this day. He doesnt do his homework before a debate, and when he runs out of things to talk about he resorts to character attacks. so that means this was 2hr 59min of character attacks.
He knows how to draw attention to himself. He's louder. He speaks energetically. He cuts of the other speaker. We wins all the shallow stuff. But if you listen, Sam cleans his clock.
Sam Harris fancies himself a liberal but Cenk has since called him a fake liberal . . .
SH does argue like a sedated Shapiro. Logical and fact based but without the 5 cup coffee buzz.
Cenk uses emotions and body language. I'm slowly being pulled from being a liberal to a principal based conservative.
come to the dark side. all answers become clear with a sound foundation of principles of the founding fathers and a clear moral compass of non-aggression.
Regressive liberals hate being called out by classical liberals.
Hitchens would not have bothered with Cenk
Facts
This is basically a 3 hour commercial for Sam's book on meditation, because he shows that he has the patience of a saint.
lmao that's brilliant
And totally outclasses Cenk intellectually.
Harris looked completely irritated. He continued cutting Cenk's exchange. These are not indications of extraordinary tolerance.
@@cityman1111
Matthew 10: 34 “Don’t think that I’ve come to bring peace to the earth. I haven’t come to bring peace but a sword. 35 I’ve come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 People’s enemies are members of their own households. 37 “Those who love father or mother more than me aren’t worthy of me. Those who love son or daughter more than me aren’t worthy of me. 38 Those who don’t pick up their crosses and follow me aren’t worthy of me. 39 Those who find their lives will lose them, and those who lose their lives because of me will find them.
Luke 12: 49 “I came to cast fire upon the earth. How I wish that it was already ablaze! 50 I have a baptism I must experience. How I am distressed until it’s completed! 51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, I have come instead to bring division. 52 From now on, a household of five will be divided-three against two and two against three. 53 Father will square off against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
Luke 19 "As for my enemies who don’t want me as their king, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
@@mosehlewi3081 sorry, but those verses are metaphors there not meant to be taken literally
Sam lays out clear concise arguments, none of which are bigoted or racist. His points are data driven and relevant to today's world. He is indeed considering all sides of the argument. Cenk continually sets up straw-men of Sam's position, as many have done. If you rationally consider Sam's position and carefully listen to his wording they make a lot of sense.
He lays out clear and consice arguments many of wich are wrong, like the idea that the Syrian or Iraqi people would care if ISIS soldiers died in an airstrike. What they do care about, as we have seen in dronestrike tormented areas, is if their familymembers die and civilians. The fact that Harris seems to ignore this is yet another idication that this guy is taken way to seriously and doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.
Auraruth8 He explains clearly how bad he thinks collateral damage is. Did you watch the whole thing?
Auraruth8 Mark Hermanson The problem I have is that Cenk really can't understand sam's VERY simple point about doctrines having straight lines to how people behave and how christianity and islam are not the same.
Denchanter357 Right, he corners Cenk on this point twice. 1. Why aren't the Christians in Palestine participating in the violence, they are in the same socio-economic position. 2. Why do we take a person at their word when they claim to have committed crime for material reasons, but some dismiss it when they give a religious reason. They both agree on most of it .. it seems they disagree as to what weight all of the environmental, political, economic, religious, mental, and societal factors hold. Fine, they can all play a role.. but it's only religion claiming to be the one and only solution, the system that claims to trump all other factors.
Mark Hermanson Denchanter357 i think cenk clearly understand sam's premise of beliefs leading to action. and sam does make logical conclusions based on this premise, which however are wrong. not because he got the premise wrong, but because his premises are insufficient. as a counter-point to your question, if doctrine leads to behaviour, then i find it logical to ask why there hasn't been any muslim voilence in USA? here is a thought experiment, i hope you will be honest with yourself: if all the muslims in middle east suddenly by some miracle renounce islam right now, do you think the violence would stop tomorrow? the honest answer is no! i find cenk's point of view more nuanced. it seems to me that harris is so engaged in his own thoughts that he forgot that some of his writings are squarely in a political arena. and there are much better political analysts of the middle east than harris. also being irreligious or being an atheist is not equivalent to being an islamophobe.
Sam Harris is so good at remaining focused and on point within the context! I wouldn’t be able to remain as calm as he was 😆
He’s evil
@@slove102784not an argument
It would seem he's so calm because he approaches everything with a rather juvenile academic conception of reality without a lived understanding that dry logic does not apply to anything.
@@davidzeto2446…yes because juveniles are KNOWN for being calm.
@@MaxPowers2.0 there are no real lived in stakes for him. So yeah, he has a juvenile conception of things albeit in an ostensible mature (I would proffer morose) tone.
I don't believe at all that Cenk is failing to grasp the various criticisms that lie unique in Islam, he is simply practicing selective-ignorance and defending it out of favour for his mother culture and even says as much early in the interview.
If we talk barbarism it is more of christians than muslims. It is in the Quran that you get if you kill a human being is as though you are killing the whole of humanity. When Jews are persecuted in the hands of christians it is muslims who always protected them. What islam is against for instance immorality, abuse other people and kill other without a reason. It is absurd someone like Sam Harris to defend west and attack. When Muslims ruled the holy land they protected all people who live in Holy. Later when christian crusaders captured they killed almost all people in the town regardless of their religion Muslims, Jews etc. When later Salahudin Al Ayubi conquered he did not kill the people in the town regardless of their affiliation. Look today what christians are doing in support of zionists persecution of the Muslims in Palestinians. Therefore, when you compare the followers of the two Muslims are superior in terms of high moral ground compared to christians. Christian UK and USA (christians) who we can not finish the atrocities you have done to the other non christians communities in the 20th and 21 cenntury. Start colonialisation of other people, viatnam war, Middle east disaster, Afghanistan onslaught (20 years of atrocities), continued support of apartheid zionist state and so on and so forth. If we compare as whole people Muslims were always more peaceful than christians. That is fact.
cenks arrogance is unsettling
do you have a source for this "Muslims push sharia law in Texas?" I want to read that
@John
Gosh, how much of an idiot are you that you jumped to that conclusion?
Che X lol.
Cenk is further up his own ass than anyone I've ever seen except for maybe Donald Trump. Also, you realize that Jews make up .0018% of the global population, right? What possible trouble could an uncoordinated group so small cause for the world at large?
Cognitive neuroscientist Sam Harris Vs Cognitive dissonance patient Cenk.
Am I supposed to like for Sam Harris or Dislike for Cenk ?
My thoughts exactly!
Not a conundrum at all.
The liking system in UA-cam is flawed when it comes to these types of videos because in this situation Cenk gets benefit when you like the video for Sam Harris or for Cenk.
If you liked the whole discussion then I suppose you should like simply because Cenk's organisation made this particular discussion possible and comment here why you disagree with him.
Yes, it's highly likely he probably will never read most comments here because there's too many. What is it you are trying to convey?
I don't think he was a complete failure.
If enough people see your view some will upvote it.
Yes.
I can’t believe this was 9 years ago. You guys gotta do this one again today. Very smart and fair points here
Cenk is unable to listen or think. So limited.
lol actually false Sam here is being delu and think 1.8 b Muslims want holy war. It is absolutely ridiculous.the fact of the matter you can just this whole convo with a verse in the quran that states you can only wage wars for out of self defense. lol. literally the worst out of Sam and I am Ahiest so keep crying @@extremeresponsibility4325
Yup I’m a leftist too and don’t regard myself as terribly intelectual but I know well enough when I should be listening and thinking about what is being said. Unfortunately cenk can’t do either. I doubt Sam Harris will agree to give his time to this frustrating individual but who knows. The conversation was hopefully instructive for ppl who follow cenks way of thinking and perhaps changed the paradigm for them a bit.
What do you know, diamond girl?
Yeah. But also the things Cenk said.
I'm surprised that Sam still has hair by the end of it. I would have torn all of mine out.
Sam has patience of the saint.
Myyyyyyyy God. He came on here to defend being misrepresented and this interviewer spent the entire time saying “but Sam” and actively misrepresenting what Sam is saying. I’d leave after the 72nd time he did that to me. Sam stayed through all 417 attempts.
The intellectual distance between these two men is quite astounding.
It's like watching a football player discuss islam with a scholarly person... oh wait...
I disagree, in fact Cenk continues throughout the interview to rephrase and wrap his questions up for the audience, he may have to work on his expressive wide eyed nature which lends itself to you thinking he may not be as intellectually prowess as Sammy boy....but I disagree. He in fact as the interviewer, has a much greater burden than Sam since he has to carry the interview, keep the pace, know the next question, listen in the moment and keep the audience informed all at the same time.
Which is alot harder than it looks.
Watching this discussion made me feel like Cenks mom must be his dads cousin.
+iDalisMediaTV
Hosting an interview is a sign of intellectual prowess? do you know how dumb that is? something tells me that you would be unable to think your way out of cardboard box.
One of them is trained in philosophy, where one class would teach focus on truth values and how to construct arguments. Frankly, some of the arguments, while valid are not constructive. The goal of those arguments are clearly to illustrate that divide, and ultimately to discredit.
Sam: We gotta think deeper.
Cenk: error 404.
Unfortunately that is what happens when pseudo-intellectuals talk with intellectuals.
I think Cenk is smarter than average, just not in Sam's Domain. Also you can obviously tell Cenk is intimidated based on his hands, face and posture. This can make it harder to demonstrate your views.
@@rileystewart9165 Well, I'd argue that he is more knowledgeable than average, not 'smarter'.
@@brutallyhonestfreespeech9062 certainly more knowledgeable. No question.
@@rileystewart9165 His TYT is also paid for and funded by globalists with specific political interest. I have no doubt that they give him certain knowledge that he must know for certain topics. He was essentially a lawyer who studied management. This also contributes to his ability to think clearly on certain topics, regardless of how ignorant he chooses to act about certain things that people such as Sam Harris talks about here.
It’s not about whether the Koran or the Bible has worse stuff in it, it’s about whether or not (or what fraction) of its followers adhere to that belief. That is the point they should be discussing.
Cenk is like: "But the christians killed a lot more people than muslims!"
Sam is talking about the doctrine, which is fundamentally different. Straight lines from doctrine to behaviour. That's the key here that Cenk doesn't seem to be able to understand, because he takes it personally. He says he isn't muslim (religiously), but he is a muslim culturally, which is why he can't resist to feel insulted by Sam's explanations.
The humiliation of Cenk Uygur
If only Cenk knew he was being humiliated, and/or admitted it. Now THAT would be a sight to see!
Ooooooooofcourse!
🍔🍟🍕🍝🍗🍩🎂🍰🍮🍫😵
This was borderline like having a conversation with a 5 year old for Sam Harris.
ahahaha
It seems his only desire is to disagree, so many times he agrees then disagrees with little BS side points..
This interview did cenk no favors.
+Jason Gamblore
Most of what he says doesn't.
He's the broken clock type of guy when it's comes to being right about something.
Cenk's mouth in general does him no favors.
+Ray K and how is that any different to the total simplyfied statement made by Sam? "poverty doesnt cause crime. Islam does. hurdur" And whats with all you uneducated people and your "I see snow, so global warming is not real" logic. Just because someone is educated and fighting "against" the USA doesnt mean he believe in 72 virgin or allah. And what kind of idiot would call those people "happy". They go to a warzone to die. How the fuck can you call their previous life "happy".
+Jason Gamblore Nono, at 56min he did have a solid fucking point!
+Yu Ma ...... Just listen and watch jihadists as they make their last prayers before blowing themselves up. They are in religious ecstasy. "We love death like the enemy loves life," say the true believers. You are thinking logically in saying that this is madness, and that no one could think or live this way. However, it's a sad fact. Think before you talk shit.
Funny listening to Cenk talk about Christianity and the Bible like he knows anything about it. And it's always entertaining listening to an Atheist also talk Christianity.
What an enlighting discussion. Do it again!!
"Sam Harris is an intellectual black belt" - Joe Rogan
Hardly, but Cenk may very well be the most stupid person on the planet.
Ajay Harry I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything with less value than what you just said.
See what I did there? You probably didn't.
Cenk testifies to his ignorant bias very well by defending Salon the cesspool of fake news .
Igor Dvorzhak chomsky is a great intellectual and to be honest sometimes Sam's criticism of Islam comes off as motivated by something more than dedication to an honest understanding of ideas, however I dont think Chomsky's assessment is complete. Take a look at Hitchens' views on Chomsky I think they're on point.
Joe Rogan is smarter than all of you. That's for sure. When was the last time Sam Harris wanted to talk to you?
Did anyone else notice the difference in emotional maturity between the two...not to say anything about intellectual ability.
Quite a bit. Mr. Harris was speaking to an arrogant child. Cenk is embarassing, unwilling to listen. Cenk just waits for his turn to speak; most of the time not waiting but rudely interrupting.
at least cenk is not as bad as the emotional ben affleck
true
Yea Sam Harris acts like a 5 year old. Everytime you see a Sam Harris video he has to spend a half hour defending himself. Watching Harris speak is like watching Donald Trump.
Trying to get other people to understand you should have the highest priority in a discussion. With Cenk constantly ignoring points he made, that did already answer his question,
Sam had no other choice but to elaborate on his ideas and stands on certain issues. If there was someone that acted like a 5 yeah old, it would sadly be cenk here...
How can anyone take Cenk seriously? He’s an embarrassment sitting oppoosite Harris.
Watched the full 3 hours. It's fantastic! I enjoyed every minute.
Who lets Cenk debate? He just embarrassed himself!
Disagree. Sam contradicts himself the entire conversation, not to mention his stammering every other sentence.
+Julie Irvin sam rarely ever stammers, he is definitely one of the most articulate people alive, cenk keeps saying dumb shit and it throws him off.
Can you point out where Sam Harris contradicts himself? I'd like to see your point.
A genius... People watch these videos just to see him make a fool of himself. Doesn't TYT make money off view counts? Someone is making bank off of his stupidity. I still believe he thinks he's winning though.
Actually he did not at all. I have noticed this with atheists before they do not think for themselves, they think like dawkins or Harris...etc...just as bad as religious people really.
This intellectual bullying, Sam's playing 3D chess and Cenk's still trying to get the hang of hungry hungry hippos
AXG remember when Clinton was playing chess and 3D chess and in real world trump won cuz he was playing hungry hippos and twister!!
A better anology would be tic tac toe. The complexity of Sam's arguments are very clear to wrap your head around.
AXG hahahaha nice one!
hahahahaha
too funny - legit laugh out loud
Such a great, honest and genuine debate, 9 yrs later
This is like a Harvard scholar trying to convince a child how the Earth is round.
Hades that would be a lot easier, cause cenk knows he's stupid so he won't admit it, it's like someone pretending to be sleep, you can't wakem up
No, a child would listen. This is like strapping a flat-earther into a rocket and taking them to the ISS to look at the Earth and them saying it's just a TV screen.
No, I think Cenk ACTUALLY thinks he's intellectually and morally superior. This is what makes the looney tunes left so dangerous.
Well Said!
+Googalite It isn't exclusively a feature of the left. Watching Fox 'news' for any length of time will demonstrate that.
I just hope UA-cam doesn't fill my feed with TYT videos cuz I watched this one video.
that would suck!
Caleb Barker they always do that shiy
1) If you sub TYT, you'll see their videos in your feed, 2) If you respond with "Like" or "Dislike" their videos will be in your feed, 3) CLEAR your History playlist often. A lot of the Feed and Recommendations are influenced by your History playlist. :)
You can just hover over recommended videos, click on the little three dot menu and select ''not interested''.
I appreciate all of your concern. Thanks for the tips
Summary:
Sam: all religions aren’t true
Cenk: yeah but my previous religion isn’t as bad as the others!
Cenk now claims to be a Muslim now. He always was an Islamist, just said he was agnostic to be trendy and be acceptable to gullable liberal whites.
Yeah! Don’t know why anyone takes Cenk seriously
And islam is actually bad?
Note to self:
Don't debate an intellectual giant unless you are totally prepared, or Cenk
Cenk looks very emotionally invested in protecting Islam.
Vlad Nigmo the whole conversation is like intellect trying to talk with emotion :)
Vlad Nigmo He was raised a Muslim. So, it's very difficult for him to over-come the brainwashing.
Vlad Nigmo I know why this fat fuck endlessly defends Muslims. He might be agnostic but his parents and other
family members are Muslims so he has a soft spot for them. His so called "progressive" point of
view is so one sided and when he describes himself as a liberal, he made a fool out of himself.
Have you ever seen him this passionate and angry when he talks about Other religions? I think Cenk
should come clean and be honest about his true
Vlad Nigmo Because his family is Muslim. His mother is a Muslim and everything.
***** yes
Cenk Uygur is maddeningly obtuse in this interview, seemingly determined to misunderstand well-explained distinctions and showing a disregard for the accurate representation of his guest's views.
I lost the very little respect I had for Cenk Uygur long ago. For all the self-righteous pomp he gives off when speaking on human rights, he has taken the position that the Armenian Genocide never happened. A self proclaimed Liberal that takes the same position as the current Turkish regime is most suspect.
This is what happens when you play football or pro boxing. ;-)
from what I understand, Harris isnt expecting everyone to agree with his ideas on Islam, but what he does expect is to be able to raise issues for mature intellegent discussion without hysterical reactions. He has a point - very well illustrated by Affleck
I actually took a couple of notes of things which occurred to me during this discussion, but I haven't written it up yet. I'm not sure if I will, but it made some things very clear to me while watching it.
***** Thanks. Not sure it's really worth my time though. Most people here know my opinions already and I'm not certain most want to hear me repeating myself. :)
This was an amazing 3 hours, honestly. I don't like cenk but this convo with Sam was just...wow. You should absolutely make videos like this again.
I would never get bored listining to Sam! I love his logic and his way of expressing things!
I don't think Cenk understands basic logic and reasoning.
One of the things both of these guys keep arguing about are Sins of the past, of the religions. I'll argue, that i's less relevant than the evolution of the religion, the development of it's moral philosophy, and consequently where it stands today.
What I see is that Western religion has advanced by being exposed to the philosophers of the 18th and 19th century while Islam is still behind a couple hundred years (well at least 200). Religion in the west still plays a significant role that the philosophers failed to fill . philosophers left behind a moral void, in my opinion.
Brandon Schilling Cenk is a word twisting angry man who constantly bullies his opponent and panders to his audience (talking about his politicon videos)
I don't think this is surprising. A very, very small percentage of (at least Americans) are required to take philosophy 101, which is typically, basic logic and reasoning.
Brandon Schilling sCank just wants to win the argument regardless of how much he lies.
He went to Columbia Law. Much of his commentary makes me wonder how he got in but he's not an idiot.
this is why I stopped watching tyt
FiveGeeks
The dude is thick as shit. This entire interview was utterly cringeworthy. I felt terrible for Sam as he tried to get through to this idiot.
Hey I just posted a Alex Jones parody commercial on my channel, can you guys check it out and let me know what you think ?
FiveGeeks I came back to TYT just to watch this. I left as fast as I came.
I was going to like this comment, but you're on 666.
FiveGeeks have you ever se at fiveguys?
Sam Harris, I applaud your courage, your knowledge about the subject.
Cenk is trying so hard to misinterpret what Sam Harris is saying. Is it deliberate dishonesty on Cenk's part, or just his profound ignorance showing?
What you call misinterpret is him being critical?
When he cannot even find common ground on the definition of the basic laws of probability, yes I do think he is misinterpreting.
Well, he might not be much of a philosopher. But that wasn't the most important point in the debate was it? For example his points about slippery slop of torture is not a bad one, just because Harris manages to sound more brainy and logical doesn't mean he is right. Now it's Trump's presidency. I'm glad torture is not allowed.
I don't think it's deliberate, I think there's suggestion shown throughout the video that Cenk is unable to detach his own bias from his viewpoints.
Cenk is just dumb.
It is a disappointment that Cenk didn't seem to understand logic or reasoning and seemed more interested in rebutting rather than discussing
IMO he does understand. He is being intellectually dishonest.
***** Good point
James Hayes FUCK ALL U IGNORANT BIGOTS!
borhanus Then watch it again, because you didn't understand what he said. He is not playing any blame game, but you have to be honest about that religions are not the same and some religions are worse than others.
borhanus Then you need to read some of his books.
The irony of your comment is that most of Harris's criticism is specifically directed at Christians.
Watching this for the second time. Can't get enough.
Get a history book! :)
Imagine talking to a 5 year old for 3 hours.
This interview is the reason I now say "I used to watch TYT" I wonder how many people here feel the same way.
My name is eelsify and I used to be a regressive
Same here. Those were dark times lol
Same
Bobby Tannock feel the same way
Used to watch it regularly. I can't stand it now
Sam Harris' patience is UNBELIEVABLE.
and Cenk's stupidity is INFINITE
Also true. He can't understand that hitting two birds with an arrow is less probable than hitting one. He thinks it's the same probability because it's so small. Very dumb guy indeed.
OF COURSE! OF COURSEEEE!
He is a real-life Jedi
Thats what long term meditation seems to do
Thank you, Sam Harris, for your clarity
We would like to think that all cultures, all doctrines, are the same and are of equal value, but they’re not
I would love to hear a body expert analyze the sitting postures of these two. They are distinctly contrasting..
Sam is in a whole intellectual league of his own. How gross and racist of him.
Hahaha
hahahahahahaha
its gross its racist -batman
You can't compare an intellectual expert in one area with a journalist.
indeed...
I'm embarrassed for Cenk and I'm frustrated for Sam.
Can we get an update? Very relevant conversation for today.
I love how right off the bat, he set up an analogy of what Salon did to him. Slander him, then try to get him to work for free and bring in more eyeballs. Then he point out the guest Cenk had did the same thing and Cenk is like “But you are here to rebut them!” 🤯
I'm more intrigued by Sam's patience than his intelligence.
vpr3i Medititation for many years.
His patience is on another level. I admire it.
those 2 go hand in hand, you cant separate.
+deflair lais Not necessarily. Some brilliant people can have a volatile nature. Which can be quite entertaining. I find Sam's approach/character more admirable, though.
+comanchio1976 no doubt. I just said that because Chunk doesn't have patience for shit when he hears something he disagrees with, then goes on with a very UN-intelligent response and sometimes rant that doesn't make any sort of sense. I dont totally agree with sam but i am more influenced to listen and ponder someones thoughts when they aren't screaming "OF COOUURRSSSE!" "JUST LOOK IT UP"
I don't think Cenk even understands Sam's rebuttals. This is like watching a child arguing with an adult.
Does he not get them on purpose or is it just beyond him?
@@RichardEnglander For me it seems like Cenks cognitive dissonance kicks in before he even gives himself time to understand what is actually being said
@@Mylada yeah, it's ok because Cenk makes the standard bad arguments, I've been having a similar chat on my FB and the same poor counter points come up.
There is definitely better Harris to listen to, but here the fault definitely isn't that of Harris. Cenk is just a Muppet
Came here to say the same thing. Cenk is really a low intellect person.
@Damon Dogwood To be fair, you should watch this, if you have the time to do so; even though it's cringe AF at times, it provides a wealth of understanding as to the dementia that's sunk into the left in the last decade or so. I mean, imagine what Harris had to endure by being a part of this: we could all learn by that example.
Years later and Sam is still a Saint for dealing with Genk the way he did.
Quite a pleasant discussion to listen to. Thank you Sam and Cenk!
The best way to enjoy this interview is to put it on mute whenever Cenk is talking, and to take it off mute whenever Sam is talking. Sam has a lot of fascinating things to say, and the intelligence level of Cenk is too obvious to mention.
yea those must be some intellectual coversations you have with friends and family members where you get talk the whole time and they dont speak at all. anybody can blame one religion but how does that account for the insanely high majority of Muslims that don't commit terrorist acts? I can find just as much if not more violence in the Bible then I can in the Quaran. All religions are bs and they are all equally made up and stupid by guys who thought the world was flat
Islam is 1500 years old, and in the modern days Jihad started only when Israel and America invaded Palestine and Iraq, can anyone tell me if there were a suicide bomber during 1970s or 1960s or 1950s it started first in Lebanon against Americans and French marines who invaded the country. US spread terror when they wage a war against terror. Terror was in Afghanistan only now it is everywhere in the world, people say death to America and Israel not death to China or Brazil or India there are very strong reasons to say that. It is not religion it is an occupation and drones and supporting Israel and shit kings and dictators in the region. Islam has no effect when there is peace and prosperity. It seems that Atheism is another way of popularity and making money but not in an honest way.
The terror spread by islam at the turn of the last millennia was as real as it gets . That bombs became smart or belief systems reformed is of NO matter to the ravages faith based belief systems have done to humanity . Islam is a problem on 2016 Earth . Not much Mormons suicide bombers at the moment, or, christian crusaders blowing up CIVILIAN planes .
@hanzss25 , you need to look a bit deeper in history. It starts with the wahhabism in the late 1800s - early 1900s as @nini v has pointed out. Do a google search on "wahhabism", it will be quite educational on a major factor responsible for how we got to where we are today.
The history of islam is one of violence, war and conquest...this is by no means a new development
_Cenk_ = *"My beliefs are shaped by emotion and politics"*
_Sam_ = *"My beliefs are shaped by reason and evidence"*
It's very telling when at the beginning of the debate Cenk got a few "laughs of agreement" when he made a point against Sam, but as time went on, for some reason they were eerily silent.
Holy shit, I'm 2.5 hours in and forgot that there was an audience.
He used real historical facts, or you don't read either, my native American half felt the toxic Christian doctrine of manifest destiny up until today. Sam danced around and wasn't honest about real history
@@animegirls3219 What are you even talking about?
This is what a civilized conversation/debate looks like. I wish we could see more like this between adults.
There was one adult. Sam Harris LOL
@thetruth5574 how so? 🤔
Lol, Sam absolutely destroyed the terror apologist.
Cenk: "I'm not an expert on this."
Sam: "But I am."
GOLD.
A Jordan Peterson line
@@bobcorra4798
1:16:00
That's really far from what was said
@Reggie Jackman sam didn't claim he was an expert in this moment. Watch what was said. Sam is more than qualified
Timestamp please
Such an amazingly good and needed talk on this very delicate subject !!! It's a 3 hour long debate, but boy, it has been all worth it !!🤗
Take a shot every time Cenk agrees with himself
and die of alcohol poisoning??
brotherBox 😂😂
2 minutes in... hickup
10 mins... drunk as a skunk...
brotherBox end of video = dead
3 hours of Cenk missing the point
Always enjoy when peeps allow conversations that represent opposing sides. Well done
Uygur is unbelievable. He doesn't even get the simple logic in Harris' arguments.
He was just defending his singular position, which is that he's right and Sam is wrong. Some of his best arguments are summed up as, "No, you're wrong. I won't agree with that."
+Afiba Abdul there have been 30 jihadist attacks in 20 countries this year alone. Over a 1500 people injured and over 600 killed this year alone. We're not even halfway through the year. That doesn't include public stonings or "honour killings" which are 100% driven by Islamic teachings.
he's just trying to extend the interview with his professor. nice work cenk
As a quick aside, both Cenk and Sam agreed that honour killings are not a consequence of Islam. It was actually a remarkable moment of the interview.
If those attacks are informed by christian beliefs, and you poll the populations and there's an alarming rate of ppl who agree that this is acceptable behaviour, than yeah, that should probably be adressed.
What does that have to do with the issue discussed here though? Does one abhorrent act of one religion excuse the abhorrent act of another?
This was like trying to watch a philosopher try to explain logical reasoning to a caveman.... oh wait.
+ConfrontationalRealist Though he's not exactly a philosopher, he does have a degree in philosophy and can write about it like he was a philosopher. Cenk is a youtube journalist.
ConfrontationalRealist That's correct. Harris not being a cult leader is another fact. He's a neuroscientist and an author with a degree in philosophy. There's a big difference.
ConfrontationalRealist So since some people are fans of their's, they're cult leaders? Every popular author has a "cult following", are you just using it that way or seriously comparing his following to a cult? That would make J.K. Rowling, J.R. Tolkien, Stephen King, etc. cult leaders, which kind of dulls the meaning.
+ConfrontationalRealist You say very stupid shit. I bet that you are alone and no one likes you.
+GamersInfoOn Cenk couldn't debate his way out of a paper bag. He doesn't understand fallacies, nor does he understand logic.
Cenk immediately defaults to moralization whenever Sam starts to pick him apart. "Yes, but Sam, aren't we '**better** than military action?" It's like talking to a toddler.
In today’s India there seems to be more animosity towards the Muslin Mughal Empire than towards British Empire!!
and still India has one of the most populations of Muslims then any other Muslim country?? And that too Muslims are doing better than ever before financially, socially, politically and education wise? Muslims of Indian do not need your support. Typing reckless messages in UA-cam. Visit India and see it for yourself!
The British Empire are no longer an issue in India or out of India. In fact the UK currently has a Prime Minister of Indian descent who can practice his Hindu faith openly and it's not an issue for anyone.
You are crazy
Sam: The earth isnt flat.
Cenk: We half agree and half disagree there, Sam.
JUST TRYING TO HAVE A REASONABLE DISCUSSION!
You forgot to say 'right?'.
That is the one way in which i still respect TYT, at least they don't censor or hide away criticism.
HeiosDK TYT POLITICS, YES. AND PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE EXCEPT CENK.
Sam wouldn't touch that with a barge pole. He would have to explain why the North Star stays stationary and hasn't moved significantly throughout human history.
I don't know whether to like for Sam or dislike for Cenk
Me too
it's a TYT video. easy dislike.
same... but I disliked forCenk. Thumbs up for Sam, but I don't want to inflate TYT heads with a like.
Dislike for the TYT
gabs s Word...
Love how they leave out the child sex slaves in the tulmound
Problem is religion is in sanity . It’s coo coo crazy. On all levels -this is going to be funny in 100 years. This debate is over. We have science, give it up
This was not a proud moment to be a Turk...
true
And anytime anyone with any kind of intelligence or IQ ends up debating any of your young Turk friends it will not be a proud moment for you look forward to this happening anytime and intellectual is brought on the show your panel simply isn't up to the task of dealing with the higher intelligence
lol
The Better question you guys are missing here is, "How did Sam manage to keep his leg in that position for 3 hours straight?"
That's his physical stance that perms into his superiority complex.
Eye on America News Years of meditation??
and jiu jitsu
I was noticing the same thing but he switches his legs if you pay even closer attention.
Or why nobody ironed the bottom of Cenks pants. He looks like a child dressed him. lol Am I the only one driven nuts by that???
Philosophy doesn’t make it right. What about your morals? What about your intuition? What about your heart?
Wow. Cenk’s conversational style and energy is so cringy at times that it makes this debate a hard watch. It’s clear that one participant is much more knowledgeable in not only the whole idea but the details as well compared to the other
Poor Sam having to deal with this obtuse simpleton...
Credit to TYT for not disabling the comments section
I wouldn't give them to much credit it's more likely thier arrogance that caused this situation driving it. When you turn off comments or take down a video your essentially admitting defeat and waving a white flag. Cenk and TYT will never admit wrong or fault they will just double down on it. Cenk's the kind of guy who walks away from this interview when any sane person can see he looked completely ridiculous and ignorant. And high five all his employees and ho "wow what a asshole that guy is, we really took it to him. I feel like that whent really well for us". And all his employees who are scared to criticize clap and agree.
My inclination to agree with this statement is evidence of how pathetically censorious the left has become
credit to The You Tube?
Nope. Just like bombed their own video lol
Lol I never thought of that 😂
This was a very painful watch. Sam Harris I envy your patience.
Cenk, sam is %100 rught about everything
I tried uploading this to Pornhub, but apparently rape is not allowed by their terms of service.
When i was a christian my church didnt even hand out or teach from the old testament. It was new testament only.
And being born and raised in Northern Ireland i can tell you, with 100% confidence that its not about religion. Its about sovereignty. There are catholics and protestants on both sides. As well as atheists and other religions. The IRA which now is mostly catholic was started by protestant farmers. Not catholics. No one ive ever known, and ive known a lot of enlisted terrorists on both sides, have ever stated anything about faith or brought it up. They only talk about sovereignty. For 37 years sounded by this shit, and im not cherry picking. And yes there are religious people on both sides, some very religious. Never once heard any of them talk about religion in the context of Northern Ireland.
savage
Hahahahahaha......belter mate....!!
Funniest joke in this whole tread
+1
Booooooom! Well done
Damn, I think Cenk has been watching too much TYT.
This is my favorite comment.
LOLZ well said, he should probably lay off the buffalo meat too!
Deep Banana hehe
That’s genius
Wish I had 1/10 of Cenk’s confidence 😂😂
Cenk is just there to be argumentative and nothing else!
Sam: **makes a valid point spelled out clear as day and everyone understands**
Cenk: *"That's such a total excuse Sam!"*
FACEPALM
I think the reason why you think Cenk is being unreasonable is largely because of the way each other's body language moves when they discuss things.
Sam Harris keeps a much much cooler leveled facial and body expression that Cenk does and I think because of how similar each other's points are, similar in relevance to the typical viewer's views, it does not help Cenk to be so outwardly emotive - it's not something he can change either - such techniques only work when your opponent in discussion has a massive point of difference from one's views.
It's also because Cenk is mostly unreasonable in this video, and Sam is mostly correct.
Yeah, I only listened to the video without watching the screen and had the exact same thought as op, so sorry, you're wrong with that analysis.
sad but true...
"I think the reason why you think Cenk is being unreasonable is largely because of the way each other's body language moves when they discuss things. "
No, I think the reason has much more to do with Cenk actually being unreasonable.
If I was to wager a guess, I would wager that 95% of why Cenk left Islam is because of bacon.
😂😂😂
the reason he left is only to always say that he left and take that as an argument why he is objectiv
@@JButterZJ so he's faking when he say's he's an atheist to appear unbiased when it comes to islam?
@@cullenarthur8879 honestly I don't know about Cenk. But I know so many people doing this for the exact reason you mentioned.
@@jensen8058 personally, I find that hard to believe. I'm an atheist, so I find it easy to believe that he's an atheist. For a Muslim to leave Islam and declare he's an atheist is not a small deal, and most likely would not be done for such a stupid reason.
If you only knew what was coming in 2024, this conversation will be so different...
Poor belligerent Cenk! Outgunned and outclassed yet again.
Cenk needs a course in logic
This is like Floyd Mayweather fighting my Grandmother.
stephen Toth painfully unfunny
Axhiro Madlander Aww man, i remember when i posted that thinking "if Axhiro Madlander doesnt find this funny im just a failure, and hell never invite me to go hang with the cool kids" . So thank you for being honest. I guess ill never get jiggy with it now
nice man, you passed the test by not caring about my judgement. Welcome to the frat.
What a comment 😂😂😂
agreed
So happy with how this video was received. These comments give me hope for humanity
+Adam Smith
Yeah, Cenk is a cool guy!
+RapMetalChannel clearly I meant the negativity against Cenk. He's a bombastic, incorrigible, infallible, dickhead. Sure I agree with him on many things but overall he's a douche that asserts himself beyond his ability.
my exact sentiments
+bm3racer You clearly have no idea what racism is people like you destroys the important word racism. You stupid bigoted racist:)
+bm3racer no need to call names but I think Sam is just honest and realistic about the threat we face. He's not afraid of calling things as they are, for example you simply have no reason (at this time) to be worried about a Buddhist being a suicide bomber, it is not racism, not bigotry, not intolerance or islamaphobia, it is just the reality we face.
General Douglas MacArthur was a “benevolent dictator” during the post WWII transition from Imperial Japan to one of out most staunch democratic allies in the Asian world. Let’s not forget that:
A democracy where only one party holds office and where the country is still occupied isn't really a democracy. Just as the Okinawans.
Less than 1/3 of the way in it is perfectly clear Cenk is not trying to have any sort of legitimate discussion, simply repeating the same points no matter how many times Sam calmly dismantles them before our eyes.
Cenk seems unwilling to give Sam an inch in trying to understand what he's actually saying. Could have been a much more effective dialogue if he had attempted to do so.
***** Dude, look at all the other comments. For the plurality of top comments, the initial remark is responded to germanely. But because she's a woman, you disregard the content, and only compliment her on her looks. I'm not down with the whole micro-aggression, SJW froth, but jesus, at least establish a pretense for your trivializing response. :\
I saw clips of this video and as a TYT fan, I was disappointed with Cenk and his ultimately cutting off Sam Harris' points of view with the truth of these Islamic Jihadists are causing the most trouble in this world through mass murder and avoiding the topic to not accept the realities of these atrocities. Good job Sam Harris.
Eleanor Fitz u look like a racist
Totally agree Eleanor Fitz. This interview had so much more potential.
Eleanor Fitz It seems every time Sam makes a valid point and backs it up with strong evidence, Cenk has to go back to acting as if he's being somehow intolerant or stereotypical, no matter how clear Sam makes it that this isn't the case.
Did Cenk just disagree with probability?
Samuel Simms OF COOOOUUURSE he did
Cenk just discovered another branch of probability theory...
professor “it’s probable that” student: “hmm, based on Cenk theory, we just don’t believe that!”
JUST GOOOGLE ITTT!
C Adamek 😂😂
He really did. I understand what he was trying to say, but he missed Sam’s point entirely. It seems like he just disagrees with everything for the sake of it.
Thank you Cenk, it is so nice to see you at a normal level of emotion. Don’t go on Pierce Morgan show anymore because you act crazy when you get on there, you get so upset. I think you’re going to have a heart attack and I can’t bear to watch it, but now you’re so calm and peaceful and both of you are so engaging. Great interview glad to see you back to normal.
Poor Sam.. having to converse w Cenk who is just not as educated.. I figure harris does this ONLY to stop Cenk from blabbing crap to his audience about Sam