THE OTHER GUYS-400M POWER!!
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2020
- FULL RESULTS-400M FORD-DO ALUM HEADS, CAM, INTAKES WORK?
Can You Really Make Power from the OTHER Ford-the unloved 400M? Is it really a POS, or is it actually a 400-inch, Stroker Cleveland in Disguise? We ran it stock after a rebuild (don't judge), then tried two different roller cams, ported alum 4V Heads and single and dual-plane intakes (with spacers). All Hail the mighty 400M! - Авто та транспорт
I built a 400M back in 1975. My parents gave me their 73 LTD, so me and my buddies started competing Ford, vs, Chevy, vs. Olds. I ended up with a 425 bored 400M, C.Cams 292 hydraulic series, Holly 750, I milled my own spacer plates, 351C Edelbrock intake, 4V iron heads 64cc, and TRW flat tops. On street tires my 5000lb LTD would run 13 seconds 1/4 mile. Forget the gas mileage! Still have the engine. Can't wait to update her
As a life long Cleveland guy, I can't tell you how many times I turned down FREE 351M/400 engines. It makes me sick to think about it. T Meyer has been building stroker versions of this engines. Also, Jon Kaase was banned from running these engines in the Engine Master competition because he murders the other guys with them. He made diesel like torque with the Ford 400. Hot Rod magazine built one to zero deck height with MOPAR 340 pistons and other parts in an article called "The Mutt" They made over 500 lb/ft of torque and 500hp. Great video, keep them coming.
Yea me too.i should have a barn full of parts n motors.werking on it now.chev or Ford.
I remember that article, it was pretty wild
@@douganderson6711 grab anything you can brother, they are all starting to get scarce.
Kasse was banned from running a 400? Please back up your claim here mate. Not saying you're wrong, I would love to see something on this.
I don’t know if they have an EMC , when they ran vintage one day and LS the next, Kasse brought a 427 Chevy with rectangle port heads 68 was the cut off, but the winner was a 400 ci FE with a set of C4AEG heads that looked suspiciously 😆 like mine that disappeared, but it could have been 👽or 🐿 who knows, but he won on points, their formula, he made 596 hp and 517 ft lbs and it beat all of the vintage engines including the 427 BBC Jon Kaase brought. I suppose the FE won’t be back because the heads are too much like the LS the CSA choke and bowl cc is the same as the LS3. You have to work the SSR and the intake since the manifold is 1/3 or more of the head and the pushrods go through the intake. 1.4 is what you need, some manifolds can’t do it. And you have to work one one side for each mirror direction you have two intake ports angling forward and the rear pair angling back. It works with the POS and TW because the carry nice rounded curves that way. Physics and a lot of modeling.
The 1971 400 was rated at 265hp with a 9-1 compression ratio and 2bbl. Glad I’m one of the ones who discovered that this “boat anchor” was actually something special. One is in my 65 Galaxie now.
Even the tiny stock cam had over 400 lb/ft at 2K rpm. Fantastic 4x4 engine.
Ford straight 6 4.9 300. They are abundant and bulletproof from what I understand
Yer and I've see 300 with cut up Cleveland heads on them for drag bouts lol
I cooked a 300 till it got tight,came back few hours later fired right up,I have one now with four barrel and long tubes in f100 shortbed,think out pulls any small block
ua-cam.com/video/hAxFm7j2m5E/v-deo.html here's a 300 six pulling wheelies running high 9's
Some are better than others. The 300 they put in medium and super duty trucks had forged cranks.
Got the bulletproof part right. I have one in my '74 F-100. My friends call her Diehard
Yes!!! Finally someone makes a video about this engine!!!
I wanted to build mine in high school but the money wasn't there.
Very Underrated engine. Add performance parts and it becomes a New Animal.. I like the Ford Love. 👍
bassmaster56
There are a bunch of videos out there as of late
One of the magazines just did one maybe at the beginning of this year or last
I’d love to see you build this motor with part you can buy off the shelf meaning going from the 2barrel carb to the new manifold and 4barrel carb Heads test with cans ect for the avg guy can purchase. I have a 79 bronco with 351m that been toying on building but everything brings me back to swap in either 460 or cummins
@Tobias - It's actually a 'Ford 400'... which Ford later Modified into a 351M... same block and rods...
I just came for the 400 vs 400m arguments. lol. true ford guys know the truth.
I thought Ford made a 351m and a 400 (two different engines). I’m not sure if they made a 400m or not. This is something I’ve never saw solid evidence for, and it’s an ongoing debate lol
@@corylampkin6806 the 351m and 400 are same engine with exception of crank and pistons. ford never used m behind the 400 but did with the 351. and it indeed stands for modified. I dug up paperwork. but yes constant point of continuation around ford pages.
I also had a 69 cougar with a 351-400 M. I have seen Mach1 mustangs with the 400, but not the 400-M. I don’t know everything…
@@TheMrjamesworld the rare 400 is one with the small windsor pattern bellhousing. they call it an FMX 400. Some have swapped them into Panteras to fit the smaller bell also on the 351C. Maybe this is what you saw in the Mach. Usually has a larger 460 style bell from the trucks so there are plenty of transmissions to fit either.
Its got 400 cubes 4x4" square and can use a slew of aftermarket parts from the 351c... to the Windsors (3" crank journals)... to the 460. What's not to love?
Thanks for giving the 400 some love 🥰👍
I've been trying to tell people for years
That was super cool to see such a hated oddball motor given some love. It even made some great power too! I actually really appreciate you taking the time to do something different. Keep up the good work!
I had a 1980 F350 flatbed with the 400M. I put an Edelbrock 4BRL intake on it with a 600 Edelbrock carb and it would pull the gates of hell off lol.
@@turbojetpowered8299 I saw one in a 4x4 Ford take down every big block truck at a pulling contest. It wasn't even close. Won by almost a full sled length!
I have always thought they were given a bad rap because of the tighter emission restrictions during the 70s. Lower quality fuel... lower compression... I have also personally seen mud bog trucks with wild 400M engines that were bad ass. I would love to see more developments for these engines. Thanks for sharing this. Can't wait to see what you have in store with the Ford Sho engine.
@Richard Skipper Seems Ford was notorious for this. The Clevelands after extended high end revving... the oil would stay in the top of the motor. And the old Y Blocks (292/312) really had it bad, and had to be retro-fitted with external oil sending units
@@70_Torino_Guy - It's actually a 'Ford 400'... which Ford later Modified into a 351M... same block and rods...
I'd like to see a ford V-10 and a Ford 300 six cylinder.
Hell yeah man! Great suggestions👍
Yes 300 inline 6!!!
These would be cool engines to see on the dyno.
I'd really like to see what could be done with the 6.8 V10
Triton V10 literally has no supporters, I second it for redemption!
I personally love the 400’s.. Their main problem was they came out just as the EPA was just getting rolling and they were smoged to death, so they got the reputation of being a gutless gas guzzler.. I had one built similar to the one yours years ago, surprised a lot of people with that engine..
Agree with you to a large degree, Ford's Cleveland engine architecture had the misfortune of coming out on the eve of emissions controls and fuel economy concerns. It never got the factory development and performance parts in order to maximize its potential. Imagine what could have been if the 400 factory engines were anything like what were shown in this video. Imagine one of these with electronic fuel injection like the 302's on the late 80's Fox body Mustangs.
@@billdang3953 A friend of mine actually built a multiport fuel injection for his 400, and it ran amazing.. But yeah I'm with ya, if Ford would have put more energy in the performance department of the 400, it's hard telling what it could have became.
@@billdang3953 shit yeh a 400 making 400 hp and 450-500 tq would have been pretty easy to build and bad ass
lets not forget some lousy oil flow and inconsistent casting quality. I love them, but I know what to watch out for too and I know to upgrade the oiling system
@@mikeallen6276 I had a bone stock 400M in a 77 Ranchero GT I used to own. Oiling system definitely could've been better. I bought it, it had 50k miles on it in the mid 90's. It ran good but it had low oil pressure. I replaced the main bearings,installed a high volume oil pump,replaced all the worn out rocker arms and the collapsed lifters and timing chain. For whatever reason, the cam didn't have any visible signs of damage,so I reused it. Fixed the low oil pressure problem running good. About 50k miles later,same thing happened. I swapped the 400 out for a 429. The 429 was way better,had more power and actually got a little better mpg. Those engines must've had a lousy oiling system. I never beat on that car & I changed the oil regularly.
Alot of ppl don't realize the 400M has a really strong block with huge main caps. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
TMeyer makes a stroker kit for these, custom forged pistons, steel crank, custom forged rods. Just over 440 inches. Low buck is: polish stock rods, bush the small end, 351C forged pistons, zero deck the block. Add ARP studs and rod bolts. Add your heads, your mpg cam, choose a single plane intake, and blow through carb, and boost. 1000 hp recipe. Takes a lot of real estate under the hood though.
@@dj4monie yeah but that's an aftermarket block, crank, rods and pistons. He's talking about pushing the stock parts as far as they can go to see when they fail. Anyone can spend $40,000 to build a 2000hp engine. That's not impressive. The people who make 1500hp with stock parts are the impressive ones.
Konner Kramer , the factory iron block will handle the 434 stroker kit without difficulty. An aftermarket block becomes more of a requirement when the power levels start to reach the four digit level. The price of the stroker kit with options like forged pistons, ARP bolts and studs, H-beam rods and internal balancing is around $2700. I agree with you about taking the OEM parts and preparing them for serious usage. But I wouldn’t expect too much from the stock cast pistons or the 400 rods. The stock crankshafts in the 351-C and 400 are both pretty stout pieces but they don’t interchange between the two engines because of different main bearing sizes. Building for big power using production components is definitely the cost effective approach but it’s kinda like living on borrowed time. You never know when the next time you hammer it will be the last 😳🙀🥺.
That’s a nasty little engine, very torquey. I’m really not surprised, M’s kicked ass at the EMC for a while. I’m loving the other guys videos already, can’t wait to see more. 👍🏻
so was the 351 cleveland.
What is EMC ?
@@bryanroupe8646 Engine Masters Challenge.
Ya and they kicked ass at a tractor/truck pull I went to back in the '80s. Smallest engine in the field against big block chevys and mopars and beat everyone by almost the length of the sled.
Some comments seem to be confused. The M stands for modified. It had external features such as Lima engine mounts and transmission bolt pattern I believe
The 400 came out the near the same time as Cleveland. It’s technically called just 400. When they needed another 351 the modified the 400 with a shorter stroke crank 3.5 stroke thus the name. 351m.
You got it right !
May I say something?
35C: Built in the Cleveland engine plant. Called a Cleveland.
351W: Built in the Windsor engine plant. Called a Windsor.
351M: Built in the Michigan engine plant...
They big difference is between the Cleveland and Windsor engines besides one group being made in Cleveland Ohio and one group in Windsor Canada. I could be wrong but I think that the Windsor blocks are around 60 degrees and the Cleveland blocks are 90 degrees, which owes to the 352 Cleveland looking so much bigger than a 351 Windsor. Funny thing to is that I think they went back to a 90 degree block for them new coyotes. Again, I could be wrong.
@@michaelchoate9655 They're all 90 degree engines. Ford's last 60 degree V8 was the GAA back around WWII because it started out as a V12 aircraft prototype.
@@michaelchoate9655 The 352 is an FE and unrelated to the Cleveland, Windsor or Modified. It is a Big Block Ford and is the same family as the venerable 390/427/428
Richard you're making me feel old with this engine video. In my youth I had on paper, a well spec'd out 400 build that addressed all of it's short comings. If I recall (this was over 45yrs ago) it was a mix and match of BBC rods, 351C pistons, Boss 351 heads....Unfortunately this was before internet, amazon, above skillsets and my pay grade. Thank you.
Much easier to build a Ford 400 now with parts from TMI.inc...
I'm so glad you're doing stuff that isn't just LS, SBC, or Ford 5.0. There are so many odd engines that are plentiful.
The big hp numbers are cool. But i really enjoy how you get most out of factory iron intake and heads first! Seeing the difference headers and carburetor does on factory iron really speaks to the common guy in his driveway. Once you start with aftermarket cams/heads/pistons. Most people cant build those engines. As you know biulding a engine is alot more work than you are showing 😉 so thanks for starting simple for us budget biulders 👍
Alot more work n alot more MONEY..lol
As i have always said, a Cleveland is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
TMeyer out of MN has won some horsepower challenges with this setup, so I'd say it is quite stout when built correctly.
Should've talked to Tim Meyer. He builds 400's all the time and even has his own piston for it that put it at near zero deck height
True he’s gotta know who he is.
I have his pistons in my truck with a mild cam and a 4 barrel woke that engine up.
This was considered a smog era engine and was always overlooked. It’s a strong engine and it’s finally getting some love
I think some smog era specs need correcting. The piston tdc is below the top of the block for poor compression and quench, the cam and ignition timing is retarded. I'm not sure what else. But it takes some serious detuning to get 173 hp out of a 400 ci cleveland.
The 1971 400 with the experimental 4V intake manifold and carburetor... It woke up quick... The 4V intake was a up grade package for the 400 as some small town police departments were using cars off the lot...and trying to use them as police cars... 400 almost always had C6 and 9" axle making a good candidate.
I had a 1978 Chev van with a 350 4V. Under the hood there was an options sticker, and it said it had just 175 hp (that's SAE net, not gross).
What did the extra 50 ci on the 400 do?
Just there for bad gas mileage?
@@charlesvan13 Actually 1978 G Series 350-4V was 155hp@3800 250lb-ft@2400 and the 400-4V made 165hp@3600 and 290lb-ft@2000 - Now "10 Horsepower" in a 5000lb van likely isn't going to give you a whole lot on the top end BUT 40lb-ft more torque at 400 lower RPM than the 350cid engine makes a HUGE difference... Its like comparing the 305 to the 350 in later models... Same or Similar MPG, but less power... Too Many people get hung up on "Horsepower" and forget its really only a function of Torque multiplied by Rotational Speed... In a Truck or Van High RPM HP doesn't mean as much Low RPM Torque!
@@misters2837
The tag definitely said 175 hp.
Probably because it was sold in OK, and as a 3/4 tonne didn't have a catalytic converter.
Every engine is an air pump, it just comes down to how much you are willing to spend and what type of obstacles you are willing to overcome
Not necessarily the vortec head changed everything
@@christianmotley262 how in the world does that make my statement untrue?
Back in the day I ran a 400m with badger LP pistons that gave me 10 to 1 compression. Ported 4v heads with roller rockers. Schneider racing cam, weind intake, 750 holley and hooker headers. TCI 2500 stall converter in a c6. This combo was in a 77 f150 4x4 with 33s. It did 13.5 quarter mile. It was very fun and shut up alot of people.
Hell yea, impressive for such a big truck and wheels ...
How did you get the intake to fit ?
@@chrismontreuil2206 how would it not?
@@nigelcraig3949 dude. I ran a 400m not a 351c...... the 351m, 400m are completely different blocks from the 351c. So what are you trying to point out?? That you can't read?
@@nigelcraig3949 weiand 8010 look it up. Educate yourself.
I still have the 400m in my 78 f250, long ago just added simple things like the dual plane intake, long tubes and mild cam and it made a good difference.
I love seeing these engines given some love, they are really a good workhorse and make loads of low end torque which is great for towing.
Always great videos here!
I just bought a 1979 F250 with the 400m and it's completely stock down to the smog system still complete and set up so I'm planning on doing basically the samethings you have done to your 78
@@jacobbondy2936 chunk all the smog crap. The performer 400 intake works ok up to 5500rpm.....750 carb, good split duration/lift cam and matching valvetrain, headers and your set for a decent truck motor. If you want it to really scream go big roller cam, 351c intake (with spacers), some flat top pistons to get compression up.
Hey what fuel mileage do you get out of it
I am a Ford man and those motors have been off my radar didn't realize they could make good power
Hey, I really enjoyed this. I bought one of these engines about 25 years ago, with exactly this in mind. Never got around to building it, but it has been in my mind on and off ever since.
Never been a Ford guy, but I've had a healthy respect for clevelands ever since my "unbeatable" 64 GTO, got smoked by a bone stock '70 Mach 1 and it cost'd me $200... That was a lot of money in 1972.
Lol bringing back memories! My older brother had a repair shop back in the 90’s. Our machinist built this motor for us. Not this wild but that motor ran so strong. Took it to Albany and back to Long Island for years. She always ran very strong.
Wow, great video. I have a 78 Bronco with the original 351M. I have been going back and forth about rebuilding it again (already turned it into a 400M 20+ years ago), or upgrading to a 460. I don't want to deal with the hassle of swapping accessories, radiator, motor mounts, ect with the 460, but I wanted more power than it currently has. Keeping the 351/400 and upgrading it looks like a much better solution. I knew these had the potential for power/torque, but this video is eye opening! I will have to talk to a local engine builder about these upgrades, I won't go as far as you since I am looking for low end torque, I doubt I will see anything over 5000 RPM on the Bronco. I just realized you are the guy I see on some Engine Masters shows, very cool! I really enjoy watching you guys and will have to check out your other videos. And I agree, my 351M is now a 400M.
I think you'd be happy hopping up your 400 a bit more. Tmeyer Inc makes stroker kits to take them out to 434 cubes. Some.of his 400 builds make crazy power and turn upwards of 8000rpm on his dyno vids believe it or not. Not bad for the ol boat anchor motor. 😂
Hi Harold, I have owned a 79 bronco since the early 90s, and have swapped 460s into them.
First off, the 400 is far superior to the 460.
But because of the e350 swapping a 460 is super easy with the e350 parts.
Good luck
This made me more excited to build my 400 small block Chevy just because I was impressed with that much power from a 400 inch engine
tmeyerinc has zero deck pistons for the FACTORY FORGED ROD. Thanks for all the work!
Adding that to my vendor list. Thanks!
I was gonna mention them, they are the 400 guys
I rebuilt one of these over 20 years ago. 0.040” to clean up the bores, 214/224 cam, headers, Edelbrock performer intake and carb.
Had it in a 1982 4x4 F250. It definitely acted like it was twice as powerful as the tired stock setup, and more than enough power to spin the 33x12.5” tires.
My brother ending up wrecking the truck when he did a Chick Norris roll out of it at 25mph. Still have the engine sitting in my shed with only 10k-20k miles. If only I had something to put it in.
A maverick would be awesome but probably wouldn't fit between the shock towers, need like a 70 torino or early 70s big body mustang/cougar
Rancheros? What about a pro touring style LTD or Thunderbird?
I have one in my 79 Lincoln mark v continental I need to upgrade like this.
Another excellent episode. I appreciate your objectivity and clarity.
Thank you Richard for all you do!! Great presentation on the 400!
This is just amazing! Awesome video as usual! Thanks for putting all this work into a 400m. Absolutely tremendous the work you’ve done!
that thing is a beast, if u could get the pistons to zero deck and get that compression up it would really be making steam. A lot of people dont realize just about any engine can be built to make really good power. The other guys stuff is cool to see!
I'm glad I ran across your videos. I'm I the process of fixing up my Dad's 77 f250 351m 4spd 4x4. This shows me it will make plenty of power for what I want!
Monster results! I knew a guy who ran a Bronco 400M with a Rajay turbo. Ran like a beast.
BUT they were sloppy installing the turbo. They thought they were burning the valve stem seals or rings because of the oil smoke in the exhaust.
They pulled it back off & after months of laying in the driveway I picked up the turbo, a Holley 780, the manifold & all adapters for $60! Jackpot!
They had put so much blue goo on the oil return from the turbo that oil was being forced out the turbine seal & directly into the exhaust hence the smoke!
For the record I know about turbos having even built turbine engines out of them (not practical, they make no usable power). Just a fun exercise.
Love you for this, man nobody ever thinks to test out the engines that aren't so popular, the salvage i grew up in had an old ass 70s LTD with a 400 in it
Wow, just rebuilt one of these with my dad. Never did I expect to see someone make a performance video about one! We rebuilt it stock with a 268h comp cam and a performer intake, it runs pretty good.
I had two of those 400s one of my first car a 1974 LTD, and the second one was a 1978 Mercury cougar XR7, they have plenty of torque for Street driving but there were week on horsepower range definitely but, the thing I loved about them is they were deadly reliable!, Both of those cars they both went over 300,000 miles with no problem only change the radiator in each one at one time and that was it and the first one left me stranded one time and that will due to a burned battery terminal the other one never left me stranded, respectively I drove the first one for 13 years and a second one for 11 years so as far as reliability I give them 10 thumbs up.
Definitely wish that they had a experimented with them and made something cool out of them.
Brother thanks for sharing the potential of the 400m. You don’t know the smile I have on my face right now, my father gave me a 77 ford ranger with a 400 and now that I’m 18 I’m gonna rewatch this video like it was the Bible and make a beast of an engine💪🫡
GOOD LUCK
Your initial 265 H.P. was really close to the rated 260 H.P. on a 1970 LTD 400M engine. I don't know the torque on it but I was amazed with it in my 1968 Ford F-100 Ranger. Coupled to a FMX transmission and a 410 limited slip differential, it was a real surprise for a stock 2V engine . It seemed not to notice if the truck was empty or fully loaded.
This "other guy" series is great. Thank you, love the Ford 400 build.
I would suggest something, but honestly I'm going to watch it all even if it has nothing to do with anything I'm planning on using. But a 3.0L V6 from a Ford ranger/Tauras would be kinda cool to see how much boost they would hold and how much power they would make.
i would like to see this also. they are generally known as giant turd balls that the only thing they do good is being reliable.
currently have 3 3.0 rangers and have had 4 total.
there was a guy a while back that did the 3.3 stroker kit on like 9 psi and it basically made 4.0 sohc power which was sad lol
I like seeing these overlooked smog era engines getting some attention. No telling how many of those 351M's and 400's went to the scrap yards over the years. It was always cheaper and easier just to pull them out and drop in a 460.
I have a Ford 400 that I fuel injected using EEC-IV stuff, mild Crane cam, long tube headers and 5-speed manual - it's an absolute monster with great manners, makes an immense amount of torque and is fun to drive in an old Bronco! I only wish I had used the 4V heads instead of the stock 2V ones...
very cool Richard. I really like the idea of testing the SHO engine too.
Yes, coming from someone with a 93 T-sho, I can't wait for you to mod my 3.2L yammy!
Most definitely.... I put one in an 89 taurus wagon interior and all..... Back in 94..... That janky red metallic with the peeling clear coat.... 😂
Ditto ditto ditto!
This is a great series love it. So much effort involved and coin to bring this to air well done. 👍🍻
Richard you da man. You are exactly right! Everyone thinks they are boat anchors. We have been putting them in hot rod trucks and broncos for years. We love em. You were about at your limit on cam for your compression for sure, but ours has 11.25 with KB pistons and trick flow heads. Then they will take a lot of cam example 260 @ .050 range. Ours made 625 @ 6000 and 585 ftlbs at 5300. It since has broke in more and im sure its closer to 650. Thanks for the time and effort.
sounds like you have some good combos
Damn that’s strong for 9.1 comp! Be a wicked turbo engine!
Richard the easiest way to fit an aftermarket rod is to use a bbc rod and offset grind the crank for more stroke. Bbc uses a 2.2" rod bearing and 335 series uses 2.311". You can offset grind the crank to 4.2" stroke and bump it some more. I know this is lots of work but 6.635 bbc rods are cheap and close to what you want, you have to either narrow the rod and bearing or grind the crank wider as well. Rebush the big end and your set. Just keep in mind factory 351w cranks fit. You could always use the odd 4.17 crank with 6.2 rods and a custom piston.
Edit... A 4.25 crank, that is available, and 6.25" rods, that are available work perfect with a factory 351m piston after. 008 is taken off the deck. There is options. 4.17" cranks are avaliable and with a 6.3" rod this works with it being a little above the deck, as long as your gaskets are atleast .045" thick you'll be good.
@@dj4monie i wanted to get a 429 tbird and put a giant turbo on it. The huge strokers you can get for the 385 and some of the new heads available really make these awesome.
Great video! It’s interesting to see the dyno for these 351M & 400 “Smog” motors in stock trim. This 400 was putting down 410-ish lbft torque at a very low RPM. Which probably made the old heavy full size cars/ trucks from that era feel surprisingly quick when the stoplight turned green. We had a 80 F150 with 351M and hauled a 22’ boat for years. The engine never had problems and pulled that boat like nothing was behind it.
Ty. Good to see these ford power plant builds
I built one of these a few years ago for the wife’s truck. I used the trickflow power port Cleveland heads, a Howard’s roller cam and racetec made me a set of pistons. Nearly 0 I’m the hole. Static compression about 9.75:1. Holley sniper FI. and distributor. It’s not been dynoed but I was hoping for around 400hp. Seeing this video makes me think I may have well exceeded that! Wish I’d have come across this video earlier
sounds like a good combo
Don’t feel bad about hacking up the intake. You just proved that it had a bunch of aluminum you didn’t need. :)
#extra
@@richardholdener1727 How about a 390 ford and a 389 pontiac
@@richardholdener1727 The 390 bored & stroked= 445 cubes.
Add an offy port-o-sonic and a rumpfull of bump stick
You have some great suggestions .
Since we are ALL either ( Ca.),locked out OR soon-2-b locked up (Chitown ) would I be remiss in asking if your dyno woukd 'Stand the strain' of THE ultimate FE build?
That being a pre cross bolter ( top oiler ) 427 stroker ...
I have seen more than a few dozen service blocks suitably trimmed.
During 2 decades of seeing many such combos run......
And as goes build tunes, might I suggest 'Big Block' by Jerr Beck?
Enjoy the peace!!!
God bless.
BRIAN.
Man, do I have some stories from these engines. I had a slew of them in my misspent youth. I had a good set of 4v cleveland heads on one (the spacers were, at one time, off the shelf) that I had an aluminum dual plane intake on, topped with a 2150 motorcraft. Lumpy solid lifter cam, and before you laugh at the 2bbl setup- ask yourself "who says all of the air fuel mix has to come in though the top? The tall deck height (and 385 series bellhousing pattern) meant that there was a lot of unused real estate between the top of the ring gear and the top of the bellhousing- enough for a sizeable fuel line, and accompanying nitrous line. Yep, I plumbed the nitrous and fuel through the back of the block, and under the intake. Also installed a couple of toyota vacuum switching valves on fittings down there too (kill two cylinders 5&8 if I remember correctly- to hide the cam at idle, and with it pulling the air from the valley, it'd usually smoke like a freight train too). I think the best it did on the motor was 303 or 304 to the wheels on the motor, and a little short of 500 on the bottle. Stock bottom end, all junk. Methyl Alcohol for the excess fuel when using the bottle (fuel tank was in the trunk) When it would let go, just go get another one, swap the cam and top end, drill a few holes and go back at it- And before you ask, yes those modifications (see also: butchery) did make it leak oil. a lot of oil, actually, nut they usually didn't last long enough to worry about that. Especially after I modified the stock egr plate from a bronco with a spray bar, and rigged up a pump to run model engine fuel (90% nitro) into the engine. Life span was about 3 passes that way lol.
I had another one I went the other way with. Stock bottom end (forged pistons), and like you was irritated with the inability to get the compression ratio up to where I wanted. So I put Windsor heads on it. Other than opening up the heads for the larger head bolts- they went right on. The compression ratio went from meh to ridiculous, so I was running race gas in that one. Insert large hydraulic roller cam (don't recall the specs, its been about 20yrs), and proceed to absolutely butcher not one, not two, but three performer rpm 351w intake manifolds. A lot of tig welding later, along with some foul language, and the end result was slightly better- 370 to the wheels. on race gas. In retrospect swapping it out would've been cheaper, easier, and much faster (in every sense of the word), but as the patron saint of automotive lost causes, I HAD to build it that way.
Anyway, Love the videos. Do a dodge 4.7 one day
Man that is some tomfoolery right there. I'm glad we didn't live in the same town. LOL
I have a 1971 400 ..factory 10.1 compression.Rv cam,Edelbrock manafold ,and a edelbrock 600…it’s been fun
Great video! I'd never heard of the 400M til today, but now having seen its potential, I'm definitely impressed!
Awesome video. Not even a Ford guy, but one of my favorites you've done. Look forward to the other odd ball engine tests. Love to see something similar on an AMC 401.
Whoever said "You cant polish a turd" never saw this video! Nice job!
Turds don't drive Ford's. Whatever said
I'm looking to stuff a 400m crank/rods/pistons in a 351M in a '73 F350 Dually, just a mild build to get about 300hp and fat torque.
Not looking for a hot rod, just a solid, torquey truck motor. Glad to see there is a ton of resources out there to make it happen.
Thanks for posting. It's a great motor and underrated torque/work monster!!!
Keep "The Other Guys" coming! Love the videos
Love it!!! Dad had a buddy that was a ford mechanic. Built a 400 in a 79 bronco. It would smoke all four tires
I bought one a few years back and was going doing the same thing, I just never got around to it. thanks for the encouragement
Subscribed for this series, very refreshing to see a build on something that’s not an ls/sbc/sbf
That was a cool test!! Pretty impressive numbers!! Keep the odd ball stuff coming.
Always happy to see you work on ANYTHING other than an LS! Keep them coming!
Thank you. The world needs to see this.
Good choice. I saw the potential for this block many years ago and ran one in my '80 F150 4x4. With some block decking, heads cut .060, minor oil gallery mods, an Engle cam, 4bbl on a EB, modified distributor, this thing spun all 4 - 35" with lockers in the mud. It was disassembled after 85k miles after spending much of its time with the peddle on the floor. Never a problem with oil. Cylinders were still clean, TRW 030 flat tops were good, no ridges. Amazing engine.
I ran clevelands in stock cars for years. When I first got hold of a 400 I made my own spacers and ran Cleveland intakes and cams, very very strong engine. The issue is piston and rod selection. Not sure how you got it to live at 6500 but maybe it's because it was only a short time on the Dyno. I kept mine to 5500 max and still chucked some rods out of a couple. The last one in a mud truck, my cousin borrowed it and while screaming it on the power line threw a rod and then drove it back home. No oil, rod crashing around, just as he hit the yard another came out and almost sawed the engine in half. It only quit when he took his foot off the gas. I found out a couple days later and have never let him drive anything of mine since. Good motors, bad rap.
I think it’s pretty cool I’m glad you’re done the test that shows you what you can do with the oddball
Great work Richard. Impressive
Totally surprised!!! I love stuff like this. You get sick of seeing the same stuff all the time. Nice to see something unusual and very impressive!
This was excellent! Small displacement, low compression, big head making power. Everyone thinks you need big cubes to make this kind of power.
this may be my favorite episode yet! the other guys is a fun concept
Ford 400Ms can be built to be absolute beasts! I knew of someone who raced these locally. Slapped on a set of closed-chamber 4V heads. Installed a set of pistons that actually had to be milled down. Cut the main journal size down to 351C size. Installed a mechanical roller camshaft. This engine dominated local races, to the point where this engine combo couldn't be run in that racing class.
Great to see a 400 showing what it can do! Nice job with the video and comparison chart! Keep it up.
Those are some of the most incredible gains I’ve ever seen.
They have potential for sure
I had a 400m and loved it .
Nice to see that some people are exploring the potential of Ford's forgotten tall deck Cleveland engine. We had a 73 LTD station wagon with a 400 and I always thought that it was a gas hog and a slug (in retrospect this was mostly due to vehicle weight and the use of tall gears more suitable for steady speed freeway cruising). Examining the 400 in closer detail of late, it came with basically 2V Cleveland heads. If you look at the combustion chamber shape and valve layout of the Cleveland heads, the look remarkably like the Mopar polysphere heads that they used on the pre 1966 318's. We also used to have a 1966 Dodge which used a 318 polyshere and I remembered haw that engine really hauled. It therefore stands to reason that the Ford 400 can be built to the power levels shown in this video. Was a bit surprised to see how low the horsepower was as shipped from the factory. Most 2.5 L 4 cylinder engines from the likes of Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, eat. easily get more.
My mom had a 1976 Tbird with a 351M. She beat the living Jesus out of that thing for almost a decade and it NEVER broke. Rod stroke ratio was insanely high, so I guess there was almost no side loading on the pistons, cylinders etc. Veryy underrated motor.
Interesting concept. As for what “other guys” to test, I would like to see a Pontiac 301 get some love. That is one motor that nobody ever bothers with.
Duuuude. I second this. That was my car that got away. 1979 Trans-Am....800 bucks and I slept on it. Kick my ass every day for not buying it.
Would be cool to try to get one to run well but 301 cubes, junk crank and heads etc, etc.only a serious poncho guy as noted would take the time to try to make one run well. For the average guy a 400 or bigger is just way more cost effective. Pontiac engines are still out there, they aren't as scarce as a lot of people think, but I see your point.
There are no heads to flow for that motor.
@@SWatson455 I couldn't agree with you more. I've seen some oddball builds and there is really no reason for this one.sounds like he's building it for fun. Hell, he can't even use it in a class legal vintage trans am road race car, (5 liter limit) Joe Sherman is handling the build, most of can't afford his services anyway,plus he's out in cali. To each his own but the fact remains it just would have been a whole lot easier/ cheaper to sleeve down/de stroke a 400 block. I know a guy who messes around with straight 8 buicks but he does it for a reason, he runs them in a vintage gasser drag car. Lot's of custom fab work etc, etc.
Mike Taylor actually you can use any Pontiac head that had small valves or there was a older edelbrock head that had valves that barely cleared it but did so yes there are heads to flow and then you can also use a normal aftermarket intake ( I wouldn’t recommend it for a normal street car but it can be done and has been done)
That Torque curve tho..
Always thought this motor had more potential than people gave it credit for. Loved this epidsode! Please continue to go further with it, inquiring minds and all....
Hi bought 400m long block bored 30 over..put in the largest lift cam i could, without needing a stall converter, a Weiand intake with a 750 Holley double pumper...bolted to a stock C6...in an 84 Bronco...it practically did wheelies...
had a mostly stock 400 in a 68 fairlane with a edelbrock cam and 4bbl carter and dual exhaust. loved it- super torque monster!
What kind of headers
I bought all rotating assembly from Tmeyer and assembled myself. Lasted 10yrs till crank broke. Now doing 449 cube kit.
Steve Kenzle Bought my Aussie heads from Tmeyer. Built it years ago, still going strong. He’s the go to guy for the 400 for sure. Only got 6k miles out first set of tires!
Oh yes I know Tim well. Helped with the trackboss project. Used his 436 kit in car with good success. Currently switching to his 4.35 stroke kit. With .055 over bore. Ends up 449.5 cubes. Lol.
good work and a natural behind the camera
That is impressive man! WOW! Very cool Richard
Awesome power from a 9 to 1 combo!!! Love me some Cleveland heads
Had a 400 in my LTD. Pushed that big Ford around very easily. Also very dependable.
2:04 Everytime I hit everything and comment, I have been around for a good long time. Your channel was quite small still when I was fortunate enough to see you on this platform and the rest is history.
A long time ago I seriously built a 351m for a 78 bronco. It made stupid power. Enough to break everything but the built c6 trans. So I know for a fact that these engines are no joke. Great video!
BBF 460 N/A and Turbo
Love to see another video of the forgotten engines, an AMC 304, 360 or a 401
Really hope they do a AMC V8.
360's are easiest to find now and reasonably priced.
Probably more 360's on the road today than all the other sizes combined.
401 prices have gotten so high, that you might as well just LS swap and come out $ per hp ahead, even after buying adapters.
Good luck finding parts!
@@spaceghost8995 All the normal parts are still available for the last generation.
There used to be excellent support for these engines, so what is still available, is leftover support from back in the day.
Heck, Edelbrock even recently released a new generation of multi-port EFI for the AMC V8.
Bob Hoffman well that would be the older gen. Amc 290, 343 and the 390
I seen a mail jeep with a 401 with a blower on it at silver lake dunes back in 2000 them guys that built it had some dedication to put all of together but they beat on it all week in the dunes and the sand drags
Great build Richard!
Y'all did a bang up job on this 400n thank you all for the time you put in to the video