Best Busso V6 is the middle generation 3.0 12V that went into the 75 and early 164. Organic sounding, throaty at lows, creamy exotic at highs, *telepatic* throttle response, 90% torque at idle, pulls predictably all over the range, plenty of power (nice compromise between early/modern), ...
I think it’s far better to have an older car that you can push to its limits on the road, like these two, rather than a newer sports car where you rarely reach the limit, other than on a track. They both sound fantastic, without any sense of the sound being artificially created, that is the way of so many newer performance cars.
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025 on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas station per city or county. Now they want to slow down all the gas station fuel pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems, turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of crime here, called "Abgasbespaßung".
Its the best V6 ever made! I drove rally’s with a 75 3.0 V6 and never have i any probleem with the engine, it has 220 hp en 240 nm of torque. I also drove with a ford sierra cosworth 4x4 in group a8 and with a Volvo 242 turbo and the engine in the alfa was the best! Never broke and the lowest amount of fuel……! The Volvo was the best car for a rally and i have the most fun in the alfa!!! Great engine, shit gearbox and handling but the most fun, so i think the best engine is the busso V6, greats from the Netherlands , ramon
UA-cams, algoritm gladly send me this video. And finaly a car show that propperly warms up the car before revving. And a presenter that carefully shifts gears in these older cars.
You should take a look at Tyrrell's Classic Workshop. Every time Iain takes a car out for a test run, he gives it a good long drive to make sure temps and pressures are all in the green before leaning on it. Only instead of Bussos, you're more likely to see Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, Astons, etc.
A few observations if i may having owned two 916 3.0 24v models.....this engine might not be the most powerful but it simply has THE most natural and linear feel of any car ive owned (350Z HR, E60 M5 v10, Maserati GT-S 4.7 to name but 3)...no torque holes and a nigh perfect throttle response (the 3.2 GTA is much the same and feels notably punchier!). However the 916 3.0 NEEDS bilstein dampers, eibach roll bars, Q2 diff and 330m front brakes as a MINIMUM to be enjoyed and enjoyed safely. The ride is never going to be great owing to the placement of engine and distribution of weight but it can be made SO much better with these essential tweaks. Next up is to powerflex the whole thing, esp the rear and consider eibach springs for less pitch and roll which the car does suffer alot if you want to push on through bends and not just cruise with acc blasts. Then get a CDA and Wizard full exhaust with Alfaholic cats so that it howls properly (most exhausts for it just increase a rather dull gruffle-y note) and goes abit better... sure it will never have the sonorous intake sounds of the old 2.5 12v but it does add a whole new dimension. With all the above done its a great car and very intoxicating, the way these Alfa's make you feel behind the wheel is special, euphoric almost and cannot be explained to those whove never experienced it as such.
I've got a 916 GTV with the 3.0 24V engine. When I bought the car 8 years ago it came with a sports exhaust, straight through type with very little flow restrictions, which made it very load. Recently was finding it to loud to live with, so I've just converted it back to a standard exhaust system. The difference now is like day and night. I can now hear mechanical noises coming from the engine, throaty gulps of air from the induction system, and it sounds fabulous.
I did the same with my alfa gta, tried 3 different types of exhaust systems, then I put the original back on and couldn't believe how much better it was over expensive set ups.
I had one. Loved it. But sadly, the most unreliable car I have ever had. So many bugs. May I suggest, with respect, that having multiple Alfas might not be the best way to measure reliability.
@@49100CHP just out of curiosity how many would you have to have to measure reliability! They were all brilliant cars , in fact my GTV I had 11 yrs from new and only had two shocks an alternator and a window regulator. My Brera I had for two yrs before I moved to the states and it never went wrong or let me Down , in fact if I could have shipped it here I would have done .
@Haffschlappe with the slimmer chrome bumpers and quirky taillights. Absolutely love them. The Papal Nuntius to Austria had a dark blue one when I was a kid in the 70's. We lived around the corner, and I remember it parked, sometimes passing with flags and the numberplate WD 1.
I remember test driving an early GTV6 and subsequently bought a secondhand 75 V6 with the same 2.5 litre engine and absolutely loved it. Totally reliable, we took it down to the south of France (detouring to take it down the Mulsanne straight) and my wife and I drove from Gruissan to Calais only stoping for fuel and to feed the kids - almost 700 miles - awesome. Replaced it with a 164 V6 3.0 followed by a 164 QV 12V which still ranks as one of the best cars I've ever driven let alone owned. A 166 3.0 24v followed and was terrific but an elderly lady saw it written off and I bought a 916 3.0 24v which had been well sorted - suspension & powerflex bushes plus a Raggazon exhaust which I intended to keep for a year but kept for 6! Wish I'd kept it but was tempted by the last Busso engined Alfa - the GT 3.2 24v. Added a Quaiffe diff and spent a fortune on it - the diff transformed it and it was incredibly practical but if I could have one Busso Alfa it would be the 164 QV 12v. Amazing performance, terrific handling that reminded me of the various Sud tis and Sprints I had years earlier - it seemed to shrink around me and the engine and exhaust made the spine tingle. Forza Quadrifoglio Verde
I remember "...that smile on my face", even when I only owned the 156 2,5 24v. That sound, a wooden steering wheel and gear lever, red leather........ One day I was following a 911 on the Autobahn from Bremen to Hamburg. Anytime he had to brake, I could close up and scream near the rev limiter through the traffic. I bet it looks and sounds amazing for all the others, when this old Alfa was chasing that 911. 70km later, the Porsche driver was slowing down on the right lane, smiled and gave me a thumbs up.
When I had my '81 GTV6 and would open the engine to show it off, people would often say "WOW! that is the biggest windshield washer tank I have ever seen" These days I still have one Busso in the stalls, a '91 164S which is the 3L 12V version.. You gotta have at least one!
I had a 916 GTV V6, and I love Jack's content, so of course I clicked instantly. I loved mine, and I'm going to be boring and say what they always say: I wish I hadn't got rid of it. The V6 was just magnificent, so torquey and eager to take off in any gear. And the sound, nothing else like it. Had so many comments made on that car, its looks and sound - certainly more than any other car I've had. I loved the handling, the gear change and the steering, but then I haven't driven nearly as many cars as someone like Jack, so I have less to compare it to. They're really good quality cars too, and quite reliable, actually. If I had the space, I'd buy another.
I had a 1985 GTV6 and loved it...loved the engine and the whole car. Was my daily driver and I time trialed it 5 or 6 times a year with the Alfa club. Then I had both a 3 liter and a 2.5 liter 75 (Milano in the States) and the 2.5 was a much nicer engine to drive. The 3 liter had great torque, but didn't love the rpms the way the 2.5 did. My last Busso was the 3 liter (190 hp) in the 164...and at last the engine had the revs of the 2.5 and the grunt of the 3...and was actually the best of all. This was the 2 valve version. If Alfa hadn't left the USA market I probably would still have that car...it really was a fun car and I used it to teach high performance driving with the Alfa club. My students would get out of the car and look underneath...they couldn't believe it was front wheel drive. It was all in how you set the tire pressure and understood the transfer of weight in the turns. Jack, every time you get in an Alfa you smile. Very much the way that Maserati Biturbo had you laughing as you drove it. Enjoyed this video enormously, thanks.
The year Michelle Mouton won the Rally de Portugal, me and my friend were following the rally to watch stage by stage going little before the rally cars with a press badge through the conection roads and it was an experience I never forgot. The car we were in was an Alfa GTV6.
I had a GTV6 in grad school it the late 80's at NC State University. All the buildings were brick and canyon like. I loved winding out the car in 2nd gear just to hear the exhaust,
The looks alone and the fact that it’s rear wheel drive would make me go for the older car every time. And if you weren’t worried about keeping it 100% original it would be pretty easy to swap in a 3 litre version of that engine and there’s plenty you can do to tweak the suspension. But even in stock form a good example would be a delight to own.
The South African version of the GTV were supplied with a 3 litre V6 may be worthwhile trying to source one of those and being a SA car rust shouldn’t be a problem either
@@amrs1960 , from what I've read, the Suth Ifricarn 3.0L motors were modified, by boring _and_ stroking after they were imported. To be specific, they're actually closer in capacity to 2.9L, and have a different stroke measurement to the factory 3L, of a few years later.
3.0 GTV6 is the car Alfa should have built. When they put the 3.0 into the Milano they should have offered it in the GTV6. A lot of us have put 3.0 motors into GTV6's, it transforms the car (although the 2.5 still sounds better!). You can go further and put a 4.1 lsd transaxle from a Milano Platinum (the 3.0 Milano had a 3.55 lsd transaxle) and the result is a ton of fun.
I've got the 916, with the "Mediterranean" engine, the 2 lt V6 turbo benzina. Everything is stock and like some other commenter said, with stock exhaust you can enjoy intake sounds (with a very slight hint of turbo hiss in my case). I'm a huge fan of n/a engines and I drive a 4200 for a few years now, but this V6 sings even in it's small turbocharged form. Great sounding car with even greater design, considering the Tipo platform.
I've had a few busso Alfas, and I think the GTV6 was the best of the them. It was much more raw and engaging (well, the gearbox requred lots of attention to shift smoothly), and was a real pleasure to drive. It was my daily driver back then and I wish I hadn't sold it for peanuts as it would be worth so much more now! Happy to see your review and bring back some of the GTV6 nostalgia!
I had a 916 3.0 with the aero pack, in that Silver, lost track of how long ago that was. It wasn’t the best car dynamically or speed wise, but, I loved the soundtrack and the looks were and still are fantastic. Definitely a head turner. While in traffic on a high street a random stranger stuck his head through the window and asked “is she naughty?” So I blipped it to 3.5k “oh she’s naughty” … he had a huge smile and wandered off. If I’d had space it would definitely have been a keeper, anyone got the car ending in HLF? Would like to go hunting for tunnels again! I’m not fussed about outer limits of a vehicle as it’s so rare to ever get near them, but styling and character can be enjoyed at a lot less than ten tenths. Preeety caaar.
I own a 916 GTV V6 like the one in the video since 2015. I even use it as daily from time to time for a period of months. What I love about this car, besides the glorious engine is how much rock solid reliable is for it’s age even for daily use. Not even a single mechanical failure since the day I bought it. Another think is the excellent steering wheel feedback. It comes very close to the feedback that I get when I drive my Integrale. Great video, great comparison between the two Gtv generations
I had a B reg (1984) 1.5 Sprint Green Cloverleaf back in 1988 to 1991. Black with the green cloverleaf trim. Loved the car. The sound of the engine on overrun. Bliss.
@@hendongooner7383 fantastic cars. i had plenty of fun with the likes of ford & vauxhall hot hatches , never a dull moment with the alfa.. had a couple of suds , but the rot killed them.
Very good. Keep that car forever. I have one (my third one now since 2005. One was in a too bad condition to keep, one after that but was crashed from behind by a ....gtv6 on my birthday, one for parts only and the one i have now) since i have my driving license, 29 years ago.
I've always wanted to drop one of those engines into an original Fiat 124 or an early Alfa GTV ,one that's already been molested!!! That engine sounds incredible! Love to hear it with 3 carbs!!!
Having driven/owned several Busso equipped alfas, i prefer the old ones in terms of sound. They sound more raw, angry and eager. Can’t deny that the increased power of the 24v engines was nice though. Had a 12v 164 and a 24v 164 at the same time once and the 12v felt more playful and sounded even better. It had a really good pull even at high speeds. And i find them very reliable indeed, never had any issues despite high mileage and frequent ”spirited” driving.
I am torn here as I like both but that Alfetta GTV is stunning!!!! Here is a good one for you in the future , a Alfasud Sprint V a VW Sirocco MK1, both very pretty cars.
Nicest engine in a car ever, I had a 2004 156 2.5 24V for 15 years. It was such a lovely engine in _all_ respects. Just sold it for spares / repair as the rest of the car was going to hell in a hand-basket and needed too much work. The engine never skipped a beat in 200k km and was as sweet as the day I bought the car with under 70k km on it.
I've had the pleasure of owning many of the 2.5lt and 3lt V6 and loved them all. My first adventure was an early Alfa 75, then and Alfa 90, Another 75 but with an automatic ( 3 speed was horrible) then another 75 and my last one was an Alfa 164 3lt. The raspiness of the V6 is unmistakable an the best sounding V6 in the world. As for which one I lo ed the most was my first 75. RWD and awsome handling. Would love to get my hands on another one day. Thanks for the comparo and keep up the great work. Lets get the influenzo up and runni g soon. Cheers from down under 🇬🇸
I've had a 916 GTV for 20 years. It had 3k on the clock when I bought it and when I took it off the road 5 years ago I'd put 220,000K on it. I've had a lot of welding done and is now a totally rust free car. Should be back on the road soon and I'll never get bored of Driving it. Saying that I'd love a GTV6 🙂
A fair review, really more of two Alfas, rather than the first and last Busso (which were neither of these). I’ve owned three and currently running the 3.2 in my GT. And I’d certainly agree with a lot of your sentiments on this engine Jack. The 2.5 felt revvy but the 3.2 just pulls harder and harder. A Busso is a living breathing thing. One of the world’s greatest engines.
I had two Alfa 75s (while I was in Germany as company cars), first one destroyed in an accident and the second was fine until it needed a new cylinder. Both had 180 HP (time was 1989/1990), were really throaty, and fast. Great cars.
@@AsinineComment Simple, one of the cylinders had a powerful injector which washed the oil away from the cylinder, and it was scored. The engine need to be rebuilt with a new cylinder and piston.
I am fortunate enough to have freinds who are Italian car enthusiasts, and for my late birthday present I got to drive a 75 2.5, and WHAT AN ENGINE! I can't emphasis how much of a screamer it was, with a modified exhaust which just let the thing scream all the way through the rev range upto the limiter, change gear and go again! Best sounding car I've ever heard! Naturally being an Alfa I didn't finish the day with the the crank bearings becoming in happy, Buring the exhaust and spitting oil out the back, but the few laps where in forgettable.
I would prefer the alfetta gtv6 by looks and like the 3.0 liter v6 from the later gtv. So i would suggest to take the best of 2 worlds and make one great car
There's also aesthetics. The first one is lovely. Reminds me of a Lancia scorpion, i keep wanting one, but yet to pull the trigger. My Healey is much older but still beautiful.
A dear friend had a 75, known as Milano here in the states, back in the early 90's. A fantastic car to drive with that oh so happy V6 just working away on a song! Today we have Stelvio Q4 and it definitely retains the organic feel that you talked about. It is very Italian and alive! It is always a joy to drive and even moreso if given the opportunity to stretch it's legs and straighten out a bit of country road. Thanks for the great video!
GTV6 transaxle layout hard to beat..Gives perfect weight dutribution and not front loaded. I had a 2.2 ltr JTS Spider and that felt very front heavy too. Beautiful looking just like the GTV6..
But hard to get right, mechanically, especially against the similar layout of the Porche 924. Great concept, that 'Alfetta' idea - but a bit too complicated, with anyone needing an expert to get those linkages right.
Here in South Africa, in the early 80's, we had 3.0l GTV6...the car was homologated for Group One racing... the 2.5 V6 was modified with parts from Auto Delta in Italy...they were GREAT cars...😍
So much more character in these motors than so much of todays cars and with electric coming ever closer , if my copy book was up to it would love to get one
I have had a 2 litre version of the GTV as shown in the video (dreadful gearbox) and a 2 litre 147 selespeed and currently have a 3 litre 24v spider. silver with red momo interior which I have owned it for about 17 years - It is mechanically sound - It has powerflex suspension , ragazzon stainless exhaust and alfa "wooden" wheel (from memory from a 164) etc but just has got never used. Paintwork is now sadly shot - all sound but needs respray. only got sub 50k miles - always my "holidays and high days car" but not used for some years. Prior to watching your video I was in two minds whether to keep or move on. Having watched your video my mind is made up - it's a keeper. Thanks for the inspiration - first thing tomorrow I'll make a start on bringing it back .......... !!
Jack love the way you talk about the car like its a person and you attempt to be as diplomatic as possible so as not to offend the car .Absolutely enjoy your videos !
Still have my 156 V6 after 8+ years, it's a 3.0 conversion. I believe a 166 engine was dropped straight in by the previous owner. I've since put a decent exhaust and stainless manifolds instead of the silly pre-cat manifolds. Had it way longer than I ever expected, prior to the Alfa I tended to keep a car for only a year or so as I got bored. Even to this day it's an amazing car to drive and will likely never get boring. What's said about the engines here is correct, they're amazing and there's few out there quite like it for ordinary money.
I want to eventually swap out my 2.5 for the 3.0 behind my Q system. Which gearbox is yours? I've been told the 3.2 only fits up to the manuals but 3.0 having used an auto in the 166 although a different auto, not the Q system.
The red Alfa, Sings like Pavarotti! Wat a Fabulous Car. I drove that particular Model from Munique to the South of France. And we crossed Spain into Algarve, in the South of Portugal. A fantastic car, driven during an entire month. Thank you for this great, interesting Vídeo
I had the use of a GTV6 while I lived in Canada for a couple of years, lots more fun than the Detroit fare and Volvos which abound there - of course it had a cat which muted the sound and performance but the heart was still there. Concur with your observations Jack.
Great comparison video Jack. The older 2.5l GT6 is just 'more Alfa'. You aren't going (as we say) Sealion yet !!! Looking forward to the 308 updates!!!! Cheers.
Love your tests. You focus on the important stuff. I always thought the Triumph Stag was the best sounding stock engine. The Busso is ever so close. What a beautiful noise. The GTV sounds and looks better than the later car..
Nice video. I have GTV6's since 1995. The one i have now is taken apart to be restored. I saved up all the parts from the parted 3 otherones i had. The seats of the 1983-1987 issued ones are the best seats i even sat in. The best is to keep the original exhaust system because it then still has the original sound of a trumpet orchestra. Beautifull sound. When shifting to from first to second, take out of first, put it in frnt of the second gear and the put it in second gear. The roadholding is super because of the De Dion set-up. When you keep the tyres on a good pressure, parking is a less hard job. And yeah, it is not a racer but a tourer (gTv...). It is a spartanic car but a delight to drive. As soon as my cow barn is converted to a workshop ( that is in proces now), i will start the restauration. It is my lievelings car and i will never sell it. I mis the driving in it. Regards from a Dutch in Belgium.
Great vid. The early car is one of my all time favourites. I ran a 85 GTV6 for three years. Just wonderful. It went wrong, a lot, but on a good day, it was very special. The feel, noise, character. Up there with the XJR and F355 as my personal favorites I've owned.
Great video again Jack. Your description of the Busso is very good as it’s so hard to put into words what makes them special. You just have to drive one for a while to understand. I have an even later Busso than the 916 as I own a GT with the 3.2. In fact my GT was built two years after the last Busso rolled off the line and they were still being made 3 years later, right up until 2010. The GTV6 has always been a hero car for me, and the one Alfa I’ve always wanted to own. Sadly, the prices have now probably gone beyond my reach but at least I can still enjoy that Busso magic.
Have a GT 3.2 myself - best value way to enjoy the last of the Busso's and the last of Bertoni's styling. It's also a classier way of eating up the miles than a 147 GTA! Keep the exhaust standard to enjoy all the sounds from both ends as it is a "GT" after all...
A month ago i bought 166 3.0 V6 220 hp! Since i crashed my 159 1.9 JTDm in a heavy rain i use it as a daily driver for the moment! 200 km (about 120 miles?) every day to work and back, no problems at all, great sound and enough power for everyday car! They will go up in value! Not many of them are made and are becoming quite rare!
I had the 2 litre GTV back in the day. It's still my favourite car, although it needed a gearbox rebuild (not that expensive at the time) and eventually it succumbed to the usual Alfa rust. To me, the Alfetta shape is just so much more stylish than the 916.
My GTV-6 was also a 1981. So happy to see you include one in a video. A fabulous car. Good power. Sounded incredible. Handled beautifully. A joy to drive. But I left mine outside. Oh well.
If you set the automatically generated subtitles, when the engine revs it says [music] - instead of [engine noise] as typically shown by the AI algorithm when confronted with engines. It's like the "organicity" you are talking about had a digital counterpart, as if the machines won't be able to really "understand" it, but they feel it's there. As you said, these engines feel alive. I have a 2 liters 1975 GTV (the bialbero) - it has no counterbalancing shafts - and when you rev it you feel it in the body of the car, at idle speed it massages you with a syncopated, smooth pulse. Oh, it's terribly shouty over 100 mph, and the dashboard is squeaking and creaking, it's not very fast as todays sportscars, however, even with 2 cylinders less (and 150 kg less) - it's a pure joy. As Chapman once said, less is more. That's as well why it's almost impossible to find a GTV6 in original conditions for a non speculative price. Every year they substantially increase in value, and turn heads now far more than they did in their own age. A fun/money ratio hardly improvable, unless you go extreme and buy yourself a Lotus. But the GTV seats four people - quite decently if they're no giants - and you can carry a Labrador dog in the trunk, or four big suitcases, and leave for a long journey. A cruise speed around 80 mph allows still decent economy, which for a car of that age is really quite something, and more or less allows every day driving. My personal favorite car in the snow: balanced like Excalibur, no TC, it's permanent drift mode with fingertip control. All you need is snow tires to enjoy the absence of beeps and other electronic driving disturbances. The front wheel drive GTV is still an enjoyable car - it reminds you the old one - and it feels good until you try the old one. Then you know. Driving the original GTV is like a wild intercourse on the grass, at Woodstock, while Bob Dylan is performing live with his guitar. The "improved" GTV feels more like playing with a sex app while listening a boy band covering the song, in your headphones. If you like to drive without wearing a preservative, definitely should go for the classic one.
Connoisseur passionate video, very interesting! We had all the bialberos and the Bussos at home, since the 60s, and I even learnt to drive as a teenager on the 2.5 GTV6!... Great memories of dad and son connection, learning to double pedal and double clutch, and to drive by the sound of the revs...
I'm a former owner of XLM, back in the early 90s. Spent a fortune on it and sold it to a friend. Another friend owned it about 10 years ago. Great to see it's still going - it looks better on those wheels than it did on the originals. The Busso is lovely but you need a strong prescription on your rose-tinted spectacles to choose one over rivals from north of the Alps.
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025 on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas station per city or county. Now they want to slow down all the gas station fuel pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems, turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of crime here, called "Abgasbespaßung".
Not too worried, will still keep my GTV6 running somehow. Probably alongside an EV 4x4 as a daily runner. Waiting for a Fiat Panda-like EV to appear sometime before any ‘petrol bans’ come into action. Classic cars will not go away, anytime soon 😃 Proudly running my Alfas on 98 octane fuel, even in EV ‘mad’ Norway (2004 Alfa GT and 1984 Alfa GTV6 - still dreaming of a restomod Alfa 105 series Bertone coupe!)
@@Schlipperschlopper Please, don't spread around misleading information. The ban in 2035 means the car-makers can't produce more cars with I.C.E. But this has changed earier this Summer in favour of synthetic fuel propelled cars and set an exception for low-volume producers like Ferrari who doesn't produce more than 10 thousand cars a year. These manufacturers got an extra 5-year period to accomplish the shift to clean-energy "burning" engines. And just imagine if the fleet in the EU counts at least 300M cars (without lorries, buses and other I.C.E. propelled vehicles and machines) how much time does it take to replace them all? Take into consideration that the average age of cars in Western European countries around 10-11 years and Eastern European countries about 15-16. In the best year of the last decade they sold 13M passenger cars in the last 2 years it was under 10M and in this year they are going to fall to the 8M units. Europe has just reached the 1M full-electric vehicle in 2020. Let's be positive and assume by the end of this year that we doubled that since, which means we have to replace 298M cars within 12 years. That means from now on almost 25M full-electric or other alternative fuel burning cars should be sold in Europe only YEARLY!!! That is impossible from manufacturing side as well as from the consumer side. So even if they reach the goal by 2035 to doesn't let any new car to be produced with a petrol or diesel burning engine, the shift will last an additional 15-25 years while all those old cars going to disappear. In conclusion they can't reduce the supply of existing fuels according to Your timeline because they have nothing to offer in exchange.
@@fastcargtv6 No in Germany and EU you will be able to own an ICE car but from 2027 on you can only use it for driving to work and doing official and professional transports....no funtrips (BABVVO laws)!
I had a 156 2.5 V6 and a GT 3.2 V6 both Bussos. Loved both cars. If I'm honest I loved the 156 the most. I've driven the GTV but never really felt inclined to own one - I thought the GT was a better car. The GTV6 looks absolutely beautiful and I would love to own one, but I think I have left it too late.
I own one of the last ever built Busso engines in my 916 GTV V6, with the 3.2L version of this amazing engine. I love it to bits! I recently finally had to replace the entire exhaust because of rust and I deliberately put on a direct replacement with original specs and not an aftermarket sports exhaust. Why you ask? Because the engine itself snarls and growls in the most exciting way and I do not want to have that droned out by a booming noisy exhaust. Just pure engine! 😀
I remember at one point in the mid 1980s my father had a GTV6 and my mother had a GTV 2.0. He always said that apart from the sound of the V6 he preferred the 2 litre and didn't feel there was that much difference in their performance. I agree with some other comments I think the best busso installation was the 75 3.0 V6 and the SZ obviously.
I grew up in an Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT 1.6 (the speedometer is in the middle of the dashboard and the tachometer is in front of the driver), so the GTV6 gives me chills, but the newer one is also very sexy… 🇮🇹🐍🚗💨💨🇮🇹
Surprise to hear the original GTV6 revved to 6500rpm , because usually the 2 valve per cylinder cars were usually red lined around 5800rpm. The later 4 valve per cylinder engines , from last edition 164 Cloverleaf and onwards were red lined at 6000 plus rpm , but max torque was at a slightly higher revs too so the earlier cars were possibly were more responsive lower down the range, but you have to also bear in mind the GTV6 would have lower standard ratios if on the standard box. ( What some people did in the day was transplant the 3.0 litre unit from a 75 but keep the lower GTV6 ratios , less top end maximum than the 75 but boy, didn’t it accelerate! . The standard 75 3.0 litre had higher gear ratios.) Its the earlier GTV6 for me any day of the week -proper Alfa
Good to see the excitement in your face when introducing these 2 cars Jack! Think the GTV6 sounds best for me. Both great cars to own & enjoy! Thanks Jack, any Italian car is a good car to review! 👍🙏
worth waiting for. Nice review and very interesting. I don't know about your old 3.2, but when you talk about the 2.5 and 3l being linear.......in my 3.2 after about 4.5k, there's a definite kick of power, as it rushes for the red line. likely a mapping thing, trying to get more power out of the extra capacity.
Couldn't believe it when I saw the reg but I owned the red car from 1989 to 1991 when it was replaced by a company Fiesta! Lovely car, bought it from John Gill at Bedale, North Yorks for £4500 iirc. It overheated soon afterwards and it turned out to be the seals between the wet liners and the block. The dealer took it back and stripped and rebuilt the motor and it was fine from then on. 2nd gear synchro needed replacing but never got round to it. I think the stripey seats are non original and the wheels were the simple flat disc type. Exhaust was standard with a nice large single outlet. Some memorable drives including a trip to Paris with my then gf, now wife of 33 years. Used to carry my hangglider on it too. Great car
In which case you sold it to Kurt Ramsden. I bought it from Kurt around 1992. I sold it to Andy Griffith, a classic car restorer in Derby. It eventually found its way to Alex Jupe and he sold it to another friend of mine, Mark Guerin.
I am told there was a South-African market only version of the GTV6 that had a 3-litre version of the Busso. That would perhaps be the best combination?
“And if it had a second gear, I never found it” J Clarkson on his GTV6 - same with my 2 litre. I went to buy a 916 and came away with a Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo. I know which V6 I would have.
I almost bought one years ago, but unfortunately it was too rusty. At that time I had an Alfa 90 2.5 12v, which I had converted to a 3.0 12v from a 164, although the extra horsepower was welcome, I missed the sound of the 2.5 12v, which sounded best with standard exhaust.
As a teenager and into my 20's I lusted over the Alfetta/GTV's I still think it's one of the greatest looking cars of all time...but in a way I'm glad I never ended up owning one, I can still appreciate it's beauty without having to ever had my heart broken by it.
@@andygtv yeah true!… fun fact, the photo in my profile is actually a 1:18 hot wheels model I have and taken in my backyard! On the Alfa front, if I need a fix a neighbour has a red 105 GTV and similar age Alfa spider, both red and immaculate condition, beautiful cars! I have a red Lexus IS 350 2012, so for me, a dream car😀
All the GTV's had that organic feel. My friend's 1600, (rare even then) started one cylinder at a time until all four joined in in this wonderful symphony. A bit like an orchestra. And that's if you got the balance right between choke and throttle. If not... well, it just didn't start. And it too, had a gearchange that felt like stirring a bowl of spaghetti.
Another winner Jack, great video! Miss my Busso cars, more than any other cars I’ve ever owned. My favourite iteration was in the 75QV and the SZ, fabulous cars with an iconic engine.
I owned an Alfa GT (2005) 3.2 V6 with a few mods from Autodelta from new, bought from Mangoletsi....it was in Alfa red, 20 spoke 19" wheels. It was a stunning car, always wanted to own an Alfa V6 car. I had to sell it after 3 years, moved house and couldn't get it up the steep drive.
At last, a GTV6😄 A few facts about these wonderful cars Jack. The carbureted version of the Busso in the Alfa Sei had 6 single throat Dellorto carbs. In south Africa we had a homologation special version of the GTV6, it was 3 liter displacement, with 6 Dellorto carbs, a special GRP hood, and front spoiler, as well as special Compomotive 3-piece wheels. The car was a result of the standard 2.5 struggling to compete with the 535 BMW’s in Group 1 racing. It was the fastest production car in South Africa when it was released. Only 212 of these cars were produced. The South African 3 liter version of the Busso was produced before Alfa themselves produced a 3 liter Busso. The gear linkage in GTV6 was a metal rod connected between the selector lever and selector shaft, running above the driveshaft. In 1986 alfa revised the gear linkage mechamism for better feel. Another special key feature of this car was the rear suspension layout, which was De Dion suspension, with Watts linkages. This, coupled with the fact that the rear brakes are mounted to the transaxle means that the GTV6 had comparatively low unsprung weight in the rear, and interesting, yet predictable handling, especially once the rear is loaded up through a turn. One of the main reasons the power delivery of the Busso V6 is so silky smooth, and linear, is the fact that it is a 60 degree V6. It also had hemispherical cylinder heads. These cars get wayy less recognition than they deserve. Unfortunately, to fully appreciate and understand them, you have to live, and grow with them. Once you have become accustomed to the driving position, the way the suspension moves, and the steering feedback, no modern car can ever come close..
Best Busso V6 is the middle generation 3.0 12V that went into the 75 and early 164. Organic sounding, throaty at lows, creamy exotic at highs, *telepatic* throttle response, 90% torque at idle, pulls predictably all over the range, plenty of power (nice compromise between early/modern), ...
Did those still have a mechanical throttle body?
@@OaksCU1 yes
yes, that was the peak...moreso in the 75 than in the 164 though
@@TheChill001 Also with the 5 speed box which is actually better than the later 6 speed fitted later to the 916 GTV
Agree. 164 and 75 are better cars than the GTV 916 anyway. ;) Even for the FWD haters. Busso 3.0L 12V is a beautiful engine.
I think it’s far better to have an older car that you can push to its limits on the road, like these two, rather than a newer sports car where you rarely reach the limit, other than on a track. They both sound fantastic, without any sense of the sound being artificially created, that is the way of so many newer performance cars.
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned
from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the
Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025
on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas
station per city or county. Now they want to slow down all the gas station fuel
pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in
the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems,
turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and
New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be
done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of
crime here, called "Abgasbespaßung".
@@Schlipperschlopper Bla Bla Bot....
@@playtimehulot7383 Dann googeln Sie mal nach BERLIN leaks! Sie werden staunen!
@@Schlipperschlopperyou know you can just revolt.? Revolution. That’s what Mexico should be doing, instead they just move to the US. Revolution.
Its the best V6 ever made! I drove rally’s with a 75 3.0 V6 and never have i any probleem with the engine, it has 220 hp en 240 nm of torque. I also drove with a ford sierra cosworth 4x4 in group a8 and with a Volvo 242 turbo and the engine in the alfa was the best! Never broke and the lowest amount of fuel……! The Volvo was the best car for a rally and i have the most fun in the alfa!!! Great engine, shit gearbox and handling but the most fun, so i think the best engine is the busso V6, greats from the Netherlands , ramon
The Fiat 130 3200 V6 is also very nice whe adjusted perfectly or slightly tuned with 3 Weber 44 DCNF
UA-cams, algoritm gladly send me this video.
And finaly a car show that propperly warms up the car before revving.
And a presenter that carefully shifts gears in these older cars.
You should take a look at Tyrrell's Classic Workshop. Every time Iain takes a car out for a test run, he gives it a good long drive to make sure temps and pressures are all in the green before leaning on it. Only instead of Bussos, you're more likely to see Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, Astons, etc.
A few observations if i may having owned two 916 3.0 24v models.....this engine might not be the most powerful but it simply has THE most natural and linear feel of any car ive owned (350Z HR, E60 M5 v10, Maserati GT-S 4.7 to name but 3)...no torque holes and a nigh perfect throttle response (the 3.2 GTA is much the same and feels notably punchier!). However the 916 3.0 NEEDS bilstein dampers, eibach roll bars, Q2 diff and 330m front brakes as a MINIMUM to be enjoyed and enjoyed safely. The ride is never going to be great owing to the placement of engine and distribution of weight but it can be made SO much better with these essential tweaks. Next up is to powerflex the whole thing, esp the rear and consider eibach springs for less pitch and roll which the car does suffer alot if you want to push on through bends and not just cruise with acc blasts. Then get a CDA and Wizard full exhaust with Alfaholic cats so that it howls properly (most exhausts for it just increase a rather dull gruffle-y note) and goes abit better... sure it will never have the sonorous intake sounds of the old 2.5 12v but it does add a whole new dimension.
With all the above done its a great car and very intoxicating, the way these Alfa's make you feel behind the wheel is special, euphoric almost and cannot be explained to those whove never experienced it as such.
I've got a 916 GTV with the 3.0 24V engine. When I bought the car 8 years ago it came with a sports exhaust, straight through type with very little flow restrictions, which made it very load. Recently was finding it to loud to live with, so I've just converted it back to a standard exhaust system. The difference now is like day and night. I can now hear mechanical noises coming from the engine, throaty gulps of air from the induction system, and it sounds fabulous.
Spot on - the Busso induction noise is where it's at - putting a loud raspy exhaust on it is missing the point.
I did the same with my alfa gta, tried 3 different types of exhaust systems, then I put the original back on and couldn't believe how much better it was over expensive set ups.
it's too loud, not "to load"
I’ve had 7 alfas and loved all of them , and surprisingly reliable and the best cars I’ve owned .
I had four Alfas, including a 1965 Giulia Spider and mechanically they were pretty bullet proof..
I'm on my 14th alfa never a problem like any car it's as good as its owner
I had one. Loved it. But sadly, the most unreliable car I have ever had. So many bugs.
May I suggest, with respect, that having multiple Alfas might not be the best way to measure reliability.
@@49100CHP just out of curiosity how many would you have to have to measure reliability!
They were all brilliant cars , in fact my GTV I had 11 yrs from new and only had two shocks an alternator and a window regulator.
My Brera I had for two yrs before I moved to the states and it never went wrong or let me Down , in fact if I could have shipped it here I would have done .
Best placement of a Busso is in an SZ.
I love "Il Monstro".
I just put a note like your one in another comment about it! 😂
Maximam voluptatem!!
I love the first 6 carb Alfa 6
@Haffschlappe with the slimmer chrome bumpers and quirky taillights. Absolutely love them.
The Papal Nuntius to Austria had a dark blue one when I was a kid in the 70's.
We lived around the corner, and I remember it parked, sometimes passing with flags and the numberplate WD 1.
@@Haffschlappe ua-cam.com/video/phy6cGJ8wqU/v-deo.html
I remember test driving an early GTV6 and subsequently bought a secondhand 75 V6 with the same 2.5 litre engine and absolutely loved it. Totally reliable, we took it down to the south of France (detouring to take it down the Mulsanne straight) and my wife and I drove from Gruissan to Calais only stoping for fuel and to feed the kids - almost 700 miles - awesome. Replaced it with a 164 V6 3.0 followed by a 164 QV 12V which still ranks as one of the best cars I've ever driven let alone owned. A 166 3.0 24v followed and was terrific but an elderly lady saw it written off and I bought a 916 3.0 24v which had been well sorted - suspension & powerflex bushes plus a Raggazon exhaust which I intended to keep for a year but kept for 6! Wish I'd kept it but was tempted by the last Busso engined Alfa - the GT 3.2 24v. Added a Quaiffe diff and spent a fortune on it - the diff transformed it and it was incredibly practical but if I could have one Busso Alfa it would be the 164 QV 12v. Amazing performance, terrific handling that reminded me of the various Sud tis and Sprints I had years earlier - it seemed to shrink around me and the engine and exhaust made the spine tingle. Forza Quadrifoglio Verde
I remember "...that smile on my face", even when I only owned the 156 2,5 24v.
That sound, a wooden steering wheel and gear lever, red leather........
One day I was following a 911 on the Autobahn from Bremen to Hamburg. Anytime he had to brake, I could close up and scream near the rev limiter through the traffic. I bet it looks and sounds amazing for all the others, when this old Alfa was chasing that 911. 70km later, the Porsche driver was slowing down on the right lane, smiled and gave me a thumbs up.
When I had my '81 GTV6 and would open the engine to show it off, people would often say "WOW! that is the biggest windshield washer tank I have ever seen" These days I still have one Busso in the stalls, a '91 164S which is the 3L 12V version.. You gotta have at least one!
I had a 916 GTV V6, and I love Jack's content, so of course I clicked instantly. I loved mine, and I'm going to be boring and say what they always say: I wish I hadn't got rid of it. The V6 was just magnificent, so torquey and eager to take off in any gear. And the sound, nothing else like it. Had so many comments made on that car, its looks and sound - certainly more than any other car I've had. I loved the handling, the gear change and the steering, but then I haven't driven nearly as many cars as someone like Jack, so I have less to compare it to. They're really good quality cars too, and quite reliable, actually. If I had the space, I'd buy another.
I feel your pain, the only thing that let me down was the AFM which was a common issue … oh and it’s thirst! But it wasn’t bought for economy 😀
@@spunkbubble1 yeah, it liked to drink. But who cares 😃
I had a 1985 GTV6 and loved it...loved the engine and the whole car. Was my daily driver and I time trialed it 5 or 6 times a year with the Alfa club. Then I had both a 3 liter and a 2.5 liter 75 (Milano in the States) and the 2.5 was a much nicer engine to drive. The 3 liter had great torque, but didn't love the rpms the way the 2.5 did. My last Busso was the 3 liter (190 hp) in the 164...and at last the engine had the revs of the 2.5 and the grunt of the 3...and was actually the best of all. This was the 2 valve version. If Alfa hadn't left the USA market I probably would still have that car...it really was a fun car and I used it to teach high performance driving with the Alfa club. My students would get out of the car and look underneath...they couldn't believe it was front wheel drive. It was all in how you set the tire pressure and understood the transfer of weight in the turns. Jack, every time you get in an Alfa you smile. Very much the way that Maserati Biturbo had you laughing as you drove it. Enjoyed this video enormously, thanks.
The year Michelle Mouton won the Rally de Portugal, me and my friend were following the rally to watch stage by stage going little before the rally cars with a press badge through the conection roads and it was an experience I never forgot. The car we were in was an Alfa GTV6.
I had a GTV6 in grad school it the late 80's at NC State University. All the buildings were brick and canyon like. I loved winding out the car in 2nd gear just to hear the exhaust,
The looks alone and the fact that it’s rear wheel drive would make me go for the older car every time. And if you weren’t worried about keeping it 100% original it would be pretty easy to swap in a 3 litre version of that engine and there’s plenty you can do to tweak the suspension. But even in stock form a good example would be a delight to own.
The South African version of the GTV were supplied with a 3 litre V6 may be worthwhile trying to source one of those and being a SA car rust shouldn’t be a problem either
@@amrs1960 , from what I've read, the Suth Ifricarn 3.0L motors were modified, by boring _and_ stroking after they were imported.
To be specific, they're actually closer in capacity to 2.9L, and have a different stroke measurement to the factory 3L, of a few years later.
3.0 GTV6 is the car Alfa should have built. When they put the 3.0 into the Milano they should have offered it in the GTV6. A lot of us have put 3.0 motors into GTV6's, it transforms the car (although the 2.5 still sounds better!). You can go further and put a 4.1 lsd transaxle from a Milano Platinum (the 3.0 Milano had a 3.55 lsd transaxle) and the result is a ton of fun.
I've got the 916, with the "Mediterranean" engine, the 2 lt V6 turbo benzina. Everything is stock and like some other commenter said, with stock exhaust you can enjoy intake sounds (with a very slight hint of turbo hiss in my case). I'm a huge fan of n/a engines and I drive a 4200 for a few years now, but this V6 sings even in it's small turbocharged form. Great sounding car with even greater design, considering the Tipo platform.
I've had a few busso Alfas, and I think the GTV6 was the best of the them. It was much more raw and engaging (well, the gearbox requred lots of attention to shift smoothly), and was a real pleasure to drive. It was my daily driver back then and I wish I hadn't sold it for peanuts as it would be worth so much more now! Happy to see your review and bring back some of the GTV6 nostalgia!
Ownership was a nightmare, but OOOOH the sound of the V6 brings back memories
I had a 916 3.0 with the aero pack, in that Silver, lost track of how long ago that was. It wasn’t the best car dynamically or speed wise, but, I loved the soundtrack and the looks were and still are fantastic. Definitely a head turner. While in traffic on a high street a random stranger stuck his head through the window and asked “is she naughty?” So I blipped it to 3.5k “oh she’s naughty” … he had a huge smile and wandered off. If I’d had space it would definitely have been a keeper, anyone got the car ending in HLF? Would like to go hunting for tunnels again! I’m not fussed about outer limits of a vehicle as it’s so rare to ever get near them, but styling and character can be enjoyed at a lot less than ten tenths. Preeety caaar.
Preeety caaar... The Italian Job?
Except of course they never chucked an Alfa over a cliff...
I own a 916 GTV V6 like the one in the video since 2015. I even use it as daily from time to time for a period of months. What I love about this car, besides the glorious engine is how much rock solid reliable is for it’s age even for daily use. Not even a single mechanical failure since the day I bought it. Another think is the excellent steering wheel feedback. It comes very close to the feedback that I get when I drive my Integrale. Great video, great comparison between the two Gtv generations
The GTV6 is the winner because it is.....well ....the GTV6.. transaxle, fun, great sounding engine and that body. Pure italian.
Had a sprint clover leaf in the early nineties, one of my favourite cars i have ever owned, in the 40 odd cars i have owned, loved it ❤
I had a B reg (1984) 1.5 Sprint Green Cloverleaf back in 1988 to 1991. Black with the green cloverleaf trim. Loved the car. The sound of the engine on overrun. Bliss.
@@hendongooner7383 fantastic cars. i had plenty of fun with the likes of ford & vauxhall hot hatches , never a dull moment with the alfa.. had a couple of suds , but the rot killed them.
I ADORE the exterior looks of the 1980s Alfa. So exquisite..
GTV6 FTW, that sound is spine tingling. Not just the exhaust but the induction sound as well 👌 Thanks for sharing
There may be a best "BUSSO" but the GTV6 has always been one of my favorite Alfa's. The car is a little timeless and it still looks crisp and current.
Absolutely, it’s a stunning looking car, but of a bland interior, but who cares when it looks like that!
I drive a alfetta gtv (a 2.0 because im 18 and cant afford a gtv6) and the weight balance is so nice. And I absolutely love it.
Very good. Keep that car forever. I have one (my third one now since 2005. One was in a too bad condition to keep, one after that but was crashed from behind by a ....gtv6 on my birthday, one for parts only and the one i have now) since i have my driving license, 29 years ago.
I've always wanted to drop one of those engines into an original Fiat 124 or an early Alfa GTV ,one that's already been molested!!! That engine sounds incredible! Love to hear it with 3 carbs!!!
Everyone should own an Alfa in their lifetime and the Top cover from the RAC...........
I must be lucky I've owned five Alfa's and only broke down once and it had just been sat for three years before I bought it.
Capolavori di ingegneria italiana che estero ci invidia con rabbia 💪💪💪💪🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
I think I would have to go for the earlier car because in 1981 it was, in my opinion, more impressive amongst its peers
Having driven/owned several Busso equipped alfas, i prefer the old ones in terms of sound. They sound more raw, angry and eager. Can’t deny that the increased power of the 24v engines was nice though. Had a 12v 164 and a 24v 164 at the same time once and the 12v felt more playful and sounded even better. It had a really good pull even at high speeds.
And i find them very reliable indeed, never had any issues despite high mileage and frequent ”spirited” driving.
Alfetta GTV6 for me please! The 916 is lovely, but I’d have a RWD transaxle job over FWD any-day.
I am torn here as I like both but that Alfetta GTV is stunning!!!! Here is a good one for you in the future , a Alfasud Sprint V a VW Sirocco MK1, both very pretty cars.
Nicest engine in a car ever, I had a 2004 156 2.5 24V for 15 years. It was such a lovely engine in _all_ respects. Just sold it for spares / repair as the rest of the car was going to hell in a hand-basket and needed too much work. The engine never skipped a beat in 200k km and was as sweet as the day I bought the car with under 70k km on it.
I've had the pleasure of owning many of the 2.5lt and 3lt V6 and loved them all. My first adventure was an early Alfa 75, then and Alfa 90, Another 75 but with an automatic ( 3 speed was horrible) then another 75 and my last one was an Alfa 164 3lt. The raspiness of the V6 is unmistakable an the best sounding V6 in the world. As for which one I lo ed the most was my first 75. RWD and awsome handling. Would love to get my hands on another one day. Thanks for the comparo and keep up the great work. Lets get the influenzo up and runni g soon. Cheers from down under 🇬🇸
I've had a 916 GTV for 20 years. It had 3k on the clock when I bought it and when I took it off the road 5 years ago I'd put 220,000K on it. I've had a lot of welding done and is now a totally rust free car. Should be back on the road soon and I'll never get bored of Driving it. Saying that I'd love a GTV6 🙂
Was it the twinspark or basso. That's a lotta miles. You must have enjoyed it immensely to keep it that long. Great stuff.
A fair review, really more of two Alfas, rather than the first and last Busso (which were neither of these).
I’ve owned three and currently running the 3.2 in my GT. And I’d certainly agree with a lot of your sentiments on this engine Jack. The 2.5 felt revvy but the 3.2 just pulls harder and harder. A Busso is a living breathing thing. One of the world’s greatest engines.
I had two Alfa 75s (while I was in Germany as company cars), first one destroyed in an accident and the second was fine until it needed a new cylinder. Both had 180 HP (time was 1989/1990), were really throaty, and fast. Great cars.
"...until it needed a new cylinder." 🤔
What does that even _mean_ ?
@@AsinineComment Simple, one of the cylinders had a powerful injector which washed the oil away from the cylinder, and it was scored. The engine need to be rebuilt with a new cylinder and piston.
I am fortunate enough to have freinds who are Italian car enthusiasts, and for my late birthday present I got to drive a 75 2.5, and WHAT AN ENGINE! I can't emphasis how much of a screamer it was, with a modified exhaust which just let the thing scream all the way through the rev range upto the limiter, change gear and go again! Best sounding car I've ever heard! Naturally being an Alfa I didn't finish the day with the the crank bearings becoming in happy, Buring the exhaust and spitting oil out the back, but the few laps where in forgettable.
I would prefer the alfetta gtv6 by looks and like the 3.0 liter v6 from the later gtv. So i would suggest to take the best of 2 worlds and make one great car
Always been a fan of the early GTV6. Sounds incredible. Another great vid. Keep them coming.
There's also aesthetics. The first one is lovely. Reminds me of a Lancia scorpion, i keep wanting one, but yet to pull the trigger. My Healey is much older but still beautiful.
A dear friend had a 75, known as Milano here in the states, back in the early 90's. A fantastic car to drive with that oh so happy V6 just working away on a song! Today we have Stelvio Q4 and it definitely retains the organic feel that you talked about. It is very Italian and alive! It is always a joy to drive and even moreso if given the opportunity to stretch it's legs and straighten out a bit of country road. Thanks for the great video!
GTV6 transaxle layout hard to beat..Gives perfect weight dutribution and not front loaded. I had a 2.2 ltr JTS Spider and that felt very front heavy too. Beautiful looking just like the GTV6..
But hard to get right, mechanically, especially against the similar layout of the Porche 924.
Great concept, that 'Alfetta' idea - but a bit too complicated, with anyone needing an expert to get those linkages right.
The GTV6 is on top of my dream list. Absolutely love them
Cheers.
Here in South Africa, in the early 80's, we had 3.0l GTV6...the car was homologated for Group One racing... the 2.5 V6 was modified with parts from Auto Delta in Italy...they were GREAT cars...😍
Never had an Alfa but now I wish I had!
You ain’ a true petrolhead until you’ve owned an Alfa. I owned 21, and i’m broke but happy 😊 Greetings from Sweden.
the older one for me Jack, so pretty, timely and unique.
So much more character in these motors than so much of todays cars and with electric coming ever closer , if my copy book was up to it would love to get one
I have had a 2 litre version of the GTV as shown in the video (dreadful gearbox) and a 2 litre 147 selespeed and currently have a 3 litre 24v spider. silver with red momo interior which I have owned it for about 17 years - It is mechanically sound - It has powerflex suspension , ragazzon stainless exhaust and alfa "wooden" wheel (from memory from a 164) etc but just has got never used.
Paintwork is now sadly shot - all sound but needs respray. only got sub 50k miles - always my "holidays and high days car" but not used for some years.
Prior to watching your video I was in two minds whether to keep or move on.
Having watched your video my mind is made up - it's a keeper.
Thanks for the inspiration - first thing tomorrow I'll make a start on bringing it back .......... !!
Jack love the way you talk about the car like its a person and you attempt to be as diplomatic as possible so as not to offend the car .Absolutely enjoy your videos !
Still have my 156 V6 after 8+ years, it's a 3.0 conversion. I believe a 166 engine was dropped straight in by the previous owner. I've since put a decent exhaust and stainless manifolds instead of the silly pre-cat manifolds. Had it way longer than I ever expected, prior to the Alfa I tended to keep a car for only a year or so as I got bored. Even to this day it's an amazing car to drive and will likely never get boring. What's said about the engines here is correct, they're amazing and there's few out there quite like it for ordinary money.
I want to eventually swap out my 2.5 for the 3.0 behind my Q system. Which gearbox is yours? I've been told the 3.2 only fits up to the manuals but 3.0 having used an auto in the 166 although a different auto, not the Q system.
I yearned for a GTV6 when I was knocking around in AlfaSuds but just couldn't stretch to one. Gorgeous cars.
The red Alfa, Sings like Pavarotti! Wat a Fabulous Car.
I drove that particular Model from Munique to the South of France.
And we crossed Spain into Algarve, in the South of Portugal.
A fantastic car, driven during an entire month.
Thank you for this great, interesting Vídeo
I had the use of a GTV6 while I lived in Canada for a couple of years, lots more fun than the Detroit fare and Volvos which abound there - of course it had a cat which muted the sound and performance but the heart was still there. Concur with your observations Jack.
Great comparison video Jack.
The older 2.5l GT6 is just 'more Alfa'.
You aren't going (as we say) Sealion yet !!!
Looking forward to the 308 updates!!!!
Cheers.
Love your tests. You focus on the important stuff. I always thought the Triumph Stag was the best sounding stock engine. The Busso is ever so close. What a beautiful noise. The GTV sounds and looks better than the later car..
Nice video. I have GTV6's since 1995. The one i have now is taken apart to be restored. I saved up all the parts from the parted 3 otherones i had. The seats of the 1983-1987 issued ones are the best seats i even sat in. The best is to keep the original exhaust system because it then still has the original sound of a trumpet orchestra. Beautifull sound. When shifting to from first to second, take out of first, put it in frnt of the second gear and the put it in second gear. The roadholding is super because of the De Dion set-up. When you keep the tyres on a good pressure, parking is a less hard job. And yeah, it is not a racer but a tourer (gTv...). It is a spartanic car but a delight to drive. As soon as my cow barn is converted to a workshop ( that is in proces now), i will start the restauration. It is my lievelings car and i will never sell it. I mis the driving in it. Regards from a Dutch in Belgium.
Thanks for posting. Love these Alfas . Really wanted Gtv6 back in the 80s
Great vid. The early car is one of my all time favourites. I ran a 85 GTV6 for three years. Just wonderful. It went wrong, a lot, but on a good day, it was very special. The feel, noise, character. Up there with the XJR and F355 as my personal favorites I've owned.
What specific XJR? How was it compared to GTV6?
XJR8 308
Very different to the GTV6 buy both great
@@jamesmasin159
Great video again Jack. Your description of the Busso is very good as it’s so hard to put into words what makes them special. You just have to drive one for a while to understand. I have an even later Busso than the 916 as I own a GT with the 3.2. In fact my GT was built two years after the last Busso rolled off the line and they were still being made 3 years later, right up until 2010. The GTV6 has always been a hero car for me, and the one Alfa I’ve always wanted to own. Sadly, the prices have now probably gone beyond my reach but at least I can still enjoy that Busso magic.
Have a GT 3.2 myself - best value way to enjoy the last of the Busso's and the last of Bertoni's styling. It's also a classier way of eating up the miles than a 147 GTA! Keep the exhaust standard to enjoy all the sounds from both ends as it is a "GT" after all...
How have I only just discovered this channel?! Jack, your reviews are fantastic, with a great choice of cars. Keep up the great work!
A month ago i bought 166 3.0 V6 220 hp! Since i crashed my 159 1.9 JTDm in a heavy rain i use it as a daily driver for the moment! 200 km (about 120 miles?) every day to work and back, no problems at all, great sound and enough power for everyday car! They will go up in value! Not many of them are made and are becoming quite rare!
I had the 2 litre GTV back in the day. It's still my favourite car, although it needed a gearbox rebuild (not that expensive at the time) and eventually it succumbed to the usual Alfa rust. To me, the Alfetta shape is just so much more stylish than the 916.
My GTV-6 was also a 1981. So happy to see you include one in a video. A fabulous car. Good power. Sounded incredible. Handled beautifully. A joy to drive. But I left mine outside. Oh well.
If you set the automatically generated subtitles, when the engine revs it says [music] - instead of [engine noise] as typically shown by the AI algorithm when confronted with engines.
It's like the "organicity" you are talking about had a digital counterpart, as if the machines won't be able to really "understand" it, but they feel it's there.
As you said, these engines feel alive. I have a 2 liters 1975 GTV (the bialbero) - it has no counterbalancing shafts - and when you rev it you feel it in the body of the car, at idle speed it massages you with a syncopated, smooth pulse. Oh, it's terribly shouty over 100 mph, and the dashboard is squeaking and creaking, it's not very fast as todays sportscars, however, even with 2 cylinders less (and 150 kg less) - it's a pure joy. As Chapman once said, less is more.
That's as well why it's almost impossible to find a GTV6 in original conditions for a non speculative price.
Every year they substantially increase in value, and turn heads now far more than they did in their own age.
A fun/money ratio hardly improvable, unless you go extreme and buy yourself a Lotus.
But the GTV seats four people - quite decently if they're no giants - and you can carry a Labrador dog in the trunk, or four big suitcases, and leave for a long journey.
A cruise speed around 80 mph allows still decent economy, which for a car of that age is really quite something, and more or less allows every day driving.
My personal favorite car in the snow: balanced like Excalibur, no TC, it's permanent drift mode with fingertip control.
All you need is snow tires to enjoy the absence of beeps and other electronic driving disturbances.
The front wheel drive GTV is still an enjoyable car - it reminds you the old one - and it feels good until you try the old one. Then you know.
Driving the original GTV is like a wild intercourse on the grass, at Woodstock, while Bob Dylan is performing live with his guitar.
The "improved" GTV feels more like playing with a sex app while listening a boy band covering the song, in your headphones.
If you like to drive without wearing a preservative, definitely should go for the classic one.
Love the red one. Looks so iconic.
Connoisseur passionate video, very interesting! We had all the bialberos and the Bussos at home, since the 60s, and I even learnt to drive as a teenager on the 2.5 GTV6!... Great memories of dad and son connection, learning to double pedal and double clutch, and to drive by the sound of the revs...
I'm a former owner of XLM, back in the early 90s. Spent a fortune on it and sold it to a friend. Another friend owned it about 10 years ago. Great to see it's still going - it looks better on those wheels than it did on the originals. The Busso is lovely but you need a strong prescription on your rose-tinted spectacles to choose one over rivals from north of the Alps.
Just as involving, or - slightly remote from that Tarmac ?
NO question about it!!!! The red early car is far FAR nicer than the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great vid Jack! Love my GTV6 and the sound it makes - probably a car I will never sell! Great work, keep it up!
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned
from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the
Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025
on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas
station per city or county. Now they want to slow down all the gas station fuel
pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in
the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems,
turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and
New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be
done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of
crime here, called "Abgasbespaßung".
Not too worried, will still keep my GTV6 running somehow. Probably alongside an EV 4x4 as a daily runner. Waiting for a Fiat Panda-like EV to appear sometime before any ‘petrol bans’ come into action. Classic cars will not go away, anytime soon 😃 Proudly running my Alfas on 98 octane fuel, even in EV ‘mad’ Norway (2004 Alfa GT and 1984 Alfa GTV6 - still dreaming of a restomod Alfa 105 series Bertone coupe!)
@@Schlipperschlopper Please, don't spread around misleading information.
The ban in 2035 means the car-makers can't produce more cars with I.C.E. But this has changed earier this Summer in favour of synthetic fuel propelled cars and set an exception for low-volume producers like Ferrari who doesn't produce more than 10 thousand cars a year. These manufacturers got an extra 5-year period to accomplish the shift to clean-energy "burning" engines.
And just imagine if the fleet in the EU counts at least 300M cars (without lorries, buses and other I.C.E. propelled vehicles and machines) how much time does it take to replace them all? Take into consideration that the average age of cars in Western European countries around 10-11 years and Eastern European countries about 15-16. In the best year of the last decade they sold 13M passenger cars in the last 2 years it was under 10M and in this year they are going to fall to the 8M units.
Europe has just reached the 1M full-electric vehicle in 2020. Let's be positive and assume by the end of this year that we doubled that since, which means we have to replace 298M cars within 12 years. That means from now on almost 25M full-electric or other alternative fuel burning cars should be sold in Europe only YEARLY!!! That is impossible from manufacturing side as well as from the consumer side.
So even if they reach the goal by 2035 to doesn't let any new car to be produced with a petrol or diesel burning engine, the shift will last an additional 15-25 years while all those old cars going to disappear.
In conclusion they can't reduce the supply of existing fuels according to Your timeline because they have nothing to offer in exchange.
@@fastcargtv6 No in Germany and EU you will be able to own an ICE car but from 2027 on you can only use it for driving to work and doing official and professional transports....no funtrips (BABVVO laws)!
I love that Italian exhaust sound very distinctive
I had a 156 2.5 V6 and a GT 3.2 V6 both Bussos. Loved both cars. If I'm honest I loved the 156 the most. I've driven the GTV but never really felt inclined to own one - I thought the GT was a better car. The GTV6 looks absolutely beautiful and I would love to own one, but I think I have left it too late.
In the Alfa 6 it had 6 single chocke Dellorto's. The SA only GTV 6 3.0 L had the same set-up
I own one of the last ever built Busso engines in my 916 GTV V6, with the 3.2L version of this amazing engine. I love it to bits!
I recently finally had to replace the entire exhaust because of rust and I deliberately put on a direct replacement with original specs and not an aftermarket sports exhaust. Why you ask? Because the engine itself snarls and growls in the most exciting way and I do not want to have that droned out by a booming noisy exhaust. Just pure engine! 😀
Hi! I own a 3.2 916 as well! Still got the original exhaust but will need replacing soon. Where did you manage to find one?
I remember at one point in the mid 1980s my father had a GTV6 and my mother had a GTV 2.0. He always said that apart from the sound of the V6 he preferred the 2 litre and didn't feel there was that much difference in their performance. I agree with some other comments I think the best busso installation was the 75 3.0 V6 and the SZ obviously.
I grew up in an Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT 1.6 (the speedometer is in the middle of the dashboard and the tachometer is in front of the driver), so the GTV6 gives me chills, but the newer one is also very sexy…
🇮🇹🐍🚗💨💨🇮🇹
Love the first gen Busso in the GTV6, one of my all-time favorite cars. Great video!
Ahhh... brings back some fun ol memories!! Had two GTV6's back in the early 90s. Great fun to drive. Nice one Jack
That old Alfa is nice looking this channel is making me have some respect for cars I always thought were junk.
Surprise to hear the original GTV6 revved to 6500rpm , because usually the 2 valve per cylinder cars were usually red lined around 5800rpm. The later 4 valve per cylinder engines , from last edition 164 Cloverleaf and onwards were red lined at 6000 plus rpm , but max torque was at a slightly higher revs too so the earlier cars were possibly were more responsive lower down the range, but you have to also bear in mind the GTV6 would have lower standard ratios if on the standard box. ( What some people did in the day was transplant the 3.0 litre unit from a 75 but keep the lower GTV6 ratios , less top end maximum than the 75 but boy, didn’t it accelerate! . The standard 75 3.0 litre had higher gear ratios.) Its the earlier GTV6 for me any day of the week -proper Alfa
Good to see the excitement in your face when introducing these 2 cars Jack! Think the GTV6 sounds best for me. Both great cars to own & enjoy!
Thanks Jack, any Italian car is a good car to review! 👍🙏
Having owned two 3.0L Busso-engined Alfa Romeos this video is long overdue. A good comparison.
worth waiting for. Nice review and very interesting. I don't know about your old 3.2, but when you talk about the 2.5 and 3l being linear.......in my 3.2 after about 4.5k, there's a definite kick of power, as it rushes for the red line. likely a mapping thing, trying to get more power out of the extra capacity.
Exactly the same on my 3.2 GT, hit 4.5k and the horses unleash. It’s addictive… and costly!!
Couldn't believe it when I saw the reg but I owned the red car from 1989 to 1991 when it was replaced by a company Fiesta! Lovely car, bought it from John Gill at Bedale, North Yorks for £4500 iirc. It overheated soon afterwards and it turned out to be the seals between the wet liners and the block. The dealer took it back and stripped and rebuilt the motor and it was fine from then on. 2nd gear synchro needed replacing but never got round to it. I think the stripey seats are non original and the wheels were the simple flat disc type. Exhaust was standard with a nice large single outlet.
Some memorable drives including a trip to Paris with my then gf, now wife of 33 years. Used to carry my hangglider on it too.
Great car
In which case you sold it to Kurt Ramsden. I bought it from Kurt around 1992. I sold it to Andy Griffith, a classic car restorer in Derby. It eventually found its way to Alex Jupe and he sold it to another friend of mine, Mark Guerin.
The bent tach needle can be fixed dipping it in hot water and gently flattened. The needle itself can be removed.
Very nice video. Always love to learn about older cars. Keep up the good work.
Mi fanno impazzire TUTTE le Alfa a 6 cilindri. Che sinfonia.....
I am told there was a South-African market only version of the GTV6 that had a 3-litre version of the Busso. That would perhaps be the best combination?
“And if it had a second gear, I never found it” J Clarkson on his GTV6 - same with my 2 litre. I went to buy a 916 and came away with a Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo. I know which V6 I would have.
I would buy both. I drove a Alfa 156 2.5 V6 and it was a dream of an engine.
I almost bought one years ago, but unfortunately it was too rusty. At that time I had an Alfa 90 2.5 12v, which I had converted to a 3.0 12v from a 164, although the extra horsepower was welcome, I missed the sound of the 2.5 12v, which sounded best with standard exhaust.
I always thought it reached its peak in terms of sound when they spooned the 3l version in the 75.
@@TheChill001 You and others may prefer the 3.0, but I prefer the 2.5 sound.
As a teenager and into my 20's I lusted over the Alfetta/GTV's I still think it's one of the greatest looking cars of all time...but in a way I'm glad I never ended up owning one, I can still appreciate it's beauty without having to ever had my heart broken by it.
At least you have Kitt
@@andygtv yeah true!… fun fact, the photo in my profile is actually a 1:18 hot wheels model I have and taken in my backyard! On the Alfa front, if I need a fix a neighbour has a red 105 GTV and similar age Alfa spider, both red and immaculate condition, beautiful cars! I have a red Lexus IS 350 2012, so for me, a dream car😀
All the GTV's had that organic feel. My friend's 1600, (rare even then) started one cylinder at a time until all four joined in in this wonderful symphony. A bit like an orchestra. And that's if you got the balance right between choke and throttle. If not... well, it just didn't start. And it too, had a gearchange that felt like stirring a bowl of spaghetti.
This channel is hard core Italian. Regards from Poland.
Another winner Jack, great video! Miss my Busso cars, more than any other cars I’ve ever owned. My favourite iteration was in the 75QV and the SZ, fabulous cars with an iconic engine.
I owned an Alfa GT (2005) 3.2 V6 with a few mods from Autodelta from new, bought from Mangoletsi....it was in Alfa red, 20 spoke 19" wheels. It was a stunning car, always wanted to own an Alfa V6 car. I had to sell it after 3 years, moved house and couldn't get it up the steep drive.
At last, a GTV6😄 A few facts about these wonderful cars Jack. The carbureted version of the Busso in the Alfa Sei had 6 single throat Dellorto carbs. In south Africa we had a homologation special version of the GTV6, it was 3 liter displacement, with 6 Dellorto carbs, a special GRP hood, and front spoiler, as well as special Compomotive 3-piece wheels. The car was a result of the standard 2.5 struggling to compete with the 535 BMW’s in Group 1 racing. It was the fastest production car in South Africa when it was released. Only 212 of these cars were produced. The South African 3 liter version of the Busso was produced before Alfa themselves produced a 3 liter Busso.
The gear linkage in GTV6 was a metal rod connected between the selector lever and selector shaft, running above the driveshaft. In 1986 alfa revised the gear linkage mechamism for better feel.
Another special key feature of this car was the rear suspension layout, which was De Dion suspension, with Watts linkages. This, coupled with the fact that the rear brakes are mounted to the transaxle means that the GTV6 had comparatively low unsprung weight in the rear, and interesting, yet predictable handling, especially once the rear is loaded up through a turn. One of the main reasons the power delivery of the Busso V6 is so silky smooth, and linear, is the fact that it is a 60 degree V6. It also had hemispherical cylinder heads. These cars get wayy less recognition than they deserve. Unfortunately, to fully appreciate and understand them, you have to live, and grow with them. Once you have become accustomed to the driving position, the way the suspension moves, and the steering feedback, no modern car can ever come close..
6 Carbs??? That’s why they ran so badly then. Very difficult to set up properly and keep it running!! Thanks for watching and your comments!
All of those engines are AMAZING. You can’t lose.