Speaking as someone who's asian american, I actually really appreciated the authentic representation of the casual day to day racism, microaggressions, insults that I've experienced in the past. With all the anti-asian hate going around right now, this narrative discourse that is in the show is really needed, tbh. I really appreciate that people, non-asian americans, are gonna watch this and be like, Damn, so that's what it's like huh? All in all the show handled it really well, it felt fresh, it didn't feel like a tragic cliche, they didn't reduce alina to just her racialized suffering, they avoided a lot of the mistakes in representing and addressing racism. And as for the "escapism", I think for me the ultimate positive escapism which carries me away from the shit that we know exists in the real world, which transports me away from my traumas and bad memories, is all the moments where her friends actually stand up with her. Growing up I never really had friends who were like that, they mostly just laughed along with the mockery or ducked away. So it was really fucking refreshing when in the first episode, the cafeteria food server guy was like "Hey what's this Shu Han girl doing here?", her friends and comrades are like "WTF she was born here, she's one of us", and when the cafeteria guy refuses to serve her food, her friends chuck their plates and go without food in solidarity with her. Also that moment when Alina just got to the little palace and first meets Genya the tailor, and one of the attendants snidely remarks "maybe you can change her eyes to look less shu", and then Genya kicks them all out. So many asians grow up hating themselves and thinking they're ugly. Having real friends that go out of their way to stick up for you even if they aren't affected, who aren't racist, who aren't making fun of your eyes, who stand in solidarity, who are actual allies, that's the real escapism.
I struggle to call it escapism for me personally since i’m more of the type of person to want a completely different world where the issues are more difficult to compare to irl ones, but i can completely get where you’re coming from. It was kind of refreshing to see racism directed at a half-asian ngl. There have been more wasian protagonists in shows recently but even when racism is brought up in those, it’s never directed at the mix asian. I’m half chinese and have experienced quite a bit of racism(tho mostly just micro aggressions) and to see people actually acknowledge the fact that it happens is nice. Also i’ve never seen a asian mc in a mainstream high fantasy show like this. I thought it was really well done aswell.
Alina’s race is not mentioned in the books and none of the racist interactions are there in the book. It is nice that they made her Asian American in the show and also show discrimination etc.
as a speaker of Russian I'm cursed to laugh every time I hear "grisha" as it's Russian petname for Gregory. imagine, a Japanese leading studio makes a series about Western Frontieresque space colony, and the man-eating giant insectoids are called Maggie
I liked the show, but from what I hear Leigh Bardugo really seems to have done almost zero research before making a fantasy version of Russia when she wrote the books. I mean, even I know “Starkov” isn’t right for a female character, and I barely know anything about Russia.
@@jacobd1984 Leigh Bardugo definitely very loosely used Russian inspiration for her universe, it was mainly used for aesthetic and feel and the particular plot element of Ravka being a country that has failed to effectively industrialize in comparison to its neighbours. It is certainly not accurate to actual Russian history or culture and probably causes some cringing from actual Russians, but I still think its fun. :)
@@hurricaneofcats That’s too bad. I’ll probably read the books at some point anyway, and I’ll probably still enjoy them. I’m just a big fan of stories with fantasy counterparts to real countries, so I’m disappointed the similarities are fairly limited.
@@jacobd1984 There are still some interesting comparisons to make and some legitimate parallels to Russia. Personally I don't think any fantasy series that creates its own world truly constructs an accurate portrait of any real country. Most fantasy settings based on or inspired by real places are abstracted from reality to different degrees and similarity to an actual culture does not guarantee something is good. I don't think the Grishaverse is worse because it is not accurate to Russia, it just takes particular aspects that facilitate the story, plot, and worldbuilding and evokes the desired feel, which definitely works.
Honestly, hot take, but if the six of crows plotline was removed, the show would be really boring. Because there are so many tired tropes and clichés that when well executed (and they are) can be good, but that secondary plotline breathes life into the show and gives us space away from those tropes that would get old so much faster
Haven't read the books, BUT, I agree, I actually think the crows carried the show the whole way through (as in, I was really looking forward to the scenes that they were featured in, no exceptions). I may or may not have tired my dad out by praising them in every turn, I can honestly say I fell in love with them.☺️
not really a hot take, from the videos i have seen, most of the comments are saying that the heist plot line was good. a real hot take would be that if they removed the heist plot line, the story wouldn't have changed at all. they did absolutely nothing lol. they failed at basically everything they planned and the only thing they "did"? was have a carriage there for alina. lol. and even that was accidental and can not be credited to them honestly :D also when talking about tropes, one of the biggest tropes was in the heist plotline and they had many lol. the gun slinger who is constantly spinning his gun for no reason. he would be so much faster on the draw if he didn't keep spinning em every time : p ok another one just for kicks :D inej the silent assassin who's basically female batman? : p
It's like when your reading a book with multiple points of view and every time its a chapter with a boring character you end up skimming through paragraphs until its a more intresting character/story
I did notice that he exesivly swirls his guns but I just figured it was more of a habit 😅 an I also thought that Grisha had to make specific hand movements to use their powers (maybe like Naruto) but I does make more sense that it works more that some grisha tried something and found that it worked and shares it with everyone to the point that it just becomes the norm (maybe like ATLA (Avatar) )
I'm just praying next season they make it more clear that Jesper is bi and not gay. They only showed him having interest in guys (other than the throw away compliment to the barmaid he leaves Milo with) and in the BTS interview on Netflix they explicitly call him gay, not bi. I'll be really angry and upset to see bi-erasure here, especially because we'll likely only see straight/Matthias driven romance plots out of Nina compared to her pan/bi relationships in KOS/ROW
yes! that was one of the only big complaints i had about the show! i was waiting all season for jesper to show some attraction to women, hoping it wasn't going to erase his sexuality. like surely it wouldn't have been that hard to toss in a couple of extra lines or something at least? i actually didn't know about the bts part, i think that's made me just a little more annoyed 😅
Okay but if Nina moves on from that lump of wet white bread Matthias and gets with a girl who actually respects her and treats her like a human it would be so good
the actor has called him bi on numerous ocasions so im hoping they will at least have him make some comments as to his atraction to women. I mean I'm sure that if they introduce wylan next season they will have the iconic "not just girls" line so that's smth.
hard agree here, I love Jesper so much and would hate to see an important part of his character erased like that. Bi people exist, and I want to be able to see people like me in the media I love!
@@mme.veronica735 all I'm saying is you should read King of Scars and Rule of Wolves then, won't give away too much, especially because a lot winds up being fairly major spoilers, but you maybe might kinda see that (though Matthias is sososo much better and more important in the books)
As a brown person the thing that immediately drew me to the trailer was the fact that the main character was not white, I know it sounds cliche but my goodness fantasy is so stupidly white that just that made a huge difference to me. I agree that the cast seem to really understand their characters.
@@alphaz27 And what exactly stops anyone from writing fantasy with non white main characters today? And is it so important to you to match the ethnicity of a character? Cant you just enjoy a novel for its actual story?
@@joek600 For your first question, I don't know what stops them I'm not the author. Secondly I am a black person and it's just nice to see myself in media that I like to consume (be it a black person, a woman or a gay person). And lastly I am enjoying the story but the characters are what adds to, they make you enjoy the story and if you didn't like the characters, you probably wouldn't enjoy the story. I will say, that I was just answering your question bc OP hadn't responded to you yet.
@@joek600 dude, if you belong to groups that have near constant representation, you won't ever know how it feels to finally see someone like you in a story. Whether that ethnicity, sexuality, gender or even your disease. Obviously positively. Not the butt of the joke like transwomen used to be, or as some kind of stereotypical enemy. We don't want to retcon existing stories. We just want to see ourselves represented in some positive form. Which is why the top commenter was happy to see someone like herself as the main person. Why would more 'diverse' characters even be a problem if you got no problem identifying with every character anyway?
I read this really good comment on a tumblr post (I think) which said how it's actually a Love corner cause it's just two men cornering in on one girl ahahah. Like a love triangle would be a poly plot line where each character fancies two other people, which would be a lot better cause there is no polyamorous rep. Give me some proper love triangle YA romance!
It never really felt like a love triangle to me, at least not in the books. By the time that she actually knew how Mal felt about her, she had moved on from The Darkling. I know it still is technically a love triangle, but it wasn't so "I love him, no wait, I love him, but I love him, and I love them both!" like a lot of YA books. Mostly because Mal isn't around for the entirety of her romance with the Darkling
I’ll be honest I imagined all the characters as mid to late 20s when I read six of crows so when I learned wylan and jesper were meant to be love interests I was like wtf isn’t Jesper like 30 I was Wrong and I’m glad lol
The thing about Matthias is that in the books he goes through most of his arc after the whole prison thing, when he pretty much hates Nina as a person rather than because she's Grisha, so his efforts to work through his prejudice are much more natural and don't feel like he's doing it for reward points. My point is, I think this issue will work itself out as we get to the later seasons of the show (if they get greenlit that is)
Thankfully I think a season 2 is very likely. This show is doing great on ratings and popularity and rivals Bridgerton for weeks on the top ten list. There's even speculation they might approve between 4 and 5 seasons overall.
I like how they changed alina's character from a more passive protagonist to a more active protagonist. she had more agency in the story that made her feel more like she's actually part of the story instead of just an accessory to it. (minor spoilers for the books?) examples: -alina choosing to go in the fold. in the books she and mal were already set to go into the fold so by changing it to where she makes that choice for herself to be with mal, it makes her discovering her powers feel like her choices mattered leading up to it. -alina's scar. idk i just like this change because in the books, she got it while holding a ceramic shard too tight cause she broke a teapot when she saw mal arriving from a trip when they were kids???? like that just seems so weak as a character bit and them changing it to her choosing to cut herself to hide her powers makes it feel more connected to the plot and to mal as a whole and makes her choice to remove it feel more emotional -idk there's probably more but those were the two that stood out to me
I agree they gave her more agency but in my opinion going into the fold willingly cheapens how terrifying and built up it was in the books and makes her look stupid/irresponsible choosing to go in and forcing all her friends and coworkers to go with her was selfish. Her selfishness isn't acknowledged to focus on the growth from that to Martyr, nor how naive she was as we miss a lot of her internal dialogue and all the great snark and wit that comes with it. I was personally a bit diappointed as someone who liked shaddow and bone and npt
I really liked the beginning of matthias and nina’s interactions with the hatred and the we need to work together to survive but from the ‘i like you’ moment i was like it’s not earned yet, it’s so not earned yet and their relationship deserved better
It seemed like the show needed to have their "I like you" moment to make Matthias's eventual hatred more potent. I wish they would've had the confidence to just keep it flirty-platonic and build the romance in the later seasons, especially because the "enemies to lovers" arc will just be repeated. I liked their earlier interactions, when he kept going below decks to talk to her out of curiosity; that showed that he was having inklings of doubt and wanted information. But they kept yanking that back, like with the "lewd woman" comments. Matthias's actor also wasn't extraordinary. He could've inserted some nuance in his expressions to show more of an internal struggle, or that he was starting not to fully believe the rote statements coming out of his mouth, but that emotional undercurrent wasn't there.
I feel like that it being too soon was part of the point of the storyline, they formed this close bond through survival that very quickly crumbled upon contact with reality. I was never sold on the romance either, but i was invested enough to feel the sting when the potential for a relationship and ideological change was wiped out. They skated right up to the line of a romance, before being burned. Matthias was kind of on the precipice of actually making progress in terms of de-radicalization, but backslid very quickly when the situation went south and their respective allegiances came back into the picture. The tragedy aspect was delivered on.
I think the show's biggest problem in dealing with their relationship is the pass of time, we never know how long they've been traveling together. In the books is made clear it was 3 weeks, they had other scenes together and the "I like you" scene was in their last days (ig). But the dialogue in the scene was straight out of the book, I'll give them that
I think part of Alina's racism issues could be resolved in future seasons with the help of other characters. I've seen a lot online that many POC's main issues (I'm white myself, so I can't weigh on it properly) is that it's just continually hit as a bad thing and even Alina seems to see it as a negative. Alina is ashamed of her Shu heritage--and with the way she's been raised and the Ravkan sentiment on Shu Han, that makes sense story wise. What I hope to see is them introduce Toyla and Tamar, who are also Shu but raised in Shu Han, and use them as people who show Alina that her heritage isn't something to be ashamed of or to see as negative. In the books, while the twins are against the Shu government in many ways, neither are ashamed of their Shu heritage and wear it with pride. I think especially Toyla, who is such a softie and so introspective and knows all of his countries stories and poems by heart could be the person who sits her down and shows her all the good in the country and its people. Tamar could show her how valued women are in Shu culture and that's something to be proud of too. Even Inej with her Suli background that she still values so deeply or Jesper and his memories of a quiet life on a Zemini farm. I hope the writers listen to the criticism because I think it's something that could be easily and beautifully handled with a few short scenes with other characters and could become really a really empowering part of the story
I don’t remember her ever being ashamed of her heritage in the show. Like when she was getting her makeover from Genya she asked them not to change her eyes. When does she act ashamed?
@@Casin yeah, i don't think she was ashamed necessarily. she more likely had the inherent fear that she was an outsider and would never fit in. which, i felt, was pretty realisitic.
there is a really interesting struggle for Zoya and her heritage in king of scars/rule of wolves. I hope they do something similar for Alina in the show
Something interesting is the scene where she mentions her mother is Shu, but she’s been raised in Ravkan and even serves in the Ravkan military. It does bring up a point about assimilation vs. acculturation which is a familiar experience for any immigrant family. Both sides of my parents side chose assimilation when they first came because they didn’t want my parents to be bullied at school for having an accent. For my generation, there’s an awkward divide between those who speak/understand their parents language and those who don’t. Due to the whole identity pride, it’s become more alienating for those whose family assimilated vs. those who kept some level of acculturation. (From a Filipino-American perspective) I’m interested though to see how they approach it. I’m ok with being proud of your heritage. My view: who you are is as much as where your living, where you will continue to live, and how the impact of your heritage helps you and others move forward in life creating a new culture. I’ve been to the Philippines, grew up eating Filipino food, can understand the aunties with their heavy accent, know some words - but I was born in America and raised with American experiences. The truth, my Filipino heritage is overall irrelevant to helping me with life here.
I think that the confrontation in E7 between Alina and the Darkling is a perfect example of what the show is doing right with regards to the Darkling as a villain: "You put this collar on me to exploit my power for your gain...We could have had this. All of it. You could've made me your equal. Instead you made me this. You don't care who suffers as long as you win." He is sympathetic in the way that we can understand why he is hurting and why that caused him to act. His trauma *explains* his actions, but he is still responsible for them. He chose to harm, he chose to manipulate, he chose to reach for power. For him, it's not even a "means justifies the end," even though at several points he tries to sell characters on that fact. He could have let Alina work with him as an equal if his goal was to save/protect the Grisha. But he actively didn't want an equal. All of it is excuses and justifications for selfish, entitled behavior and choices. He doesn't want to save the Grisha by any means necessary. He wants to use these particular means and was looking for an excuse to use them. It's a poignant villanry that we see all the time in real life. The Darkling isn't evil. He's selfish and entitled and emotionally stunted and has refused every opportunity to work on dealing with his trauma. He's hundreds of years old and yet has never once tried to grow as a person or heal. It's tragic and pathetic, but also awful to everyone beacuse such an awful man has a lot of power in addition to all this.
I really wish they gave more time to Nina and Matthias, it felt like they forgot about them and just decided to throw their story into the last episode. I was hoping that they could do to Matthias what they did to Mal, I’m really hoping they do better in the second season.
Great video! I’m glad that you talk about how smart it was to combine the two series. The Crows provided a sort of comic relief and a faster-paced action story. It’s a great way to bring a different energy to the show. If it was just Alina’s story I think it would run the risk of being too cliche YA, but because there was the other story going on I never was bothered by the cliche. I also think Jessie Mei Li brought a lot to Alina as a character, she mentioned in interviews that the director let her adjust scenes to make Alina feel less bratty. And her and Ben Barnes made adjustments to the kissing scene to make sure there was explicit consent and that Alina had more agency in the scene. She did a phenomenal job with the character and made Alina really believable and likeable. (But also I was just super excited to see a non-white lead in a YA fantasy series). I do think one of the reasons they made Alina half Shu was because Alina’s storyline was set up to be about her identity. She is asked “What are you?” by the Darkling (and I think by other characters), and in the first few episodes we keep hearing other people say “what” she is (she’s Shu, she’s Ravkan, she’s a cartographer, she’s a saint). And I think the show added the race element as a way to emphasize that question of identity. I do think they didn’t quite hit that theme as strongly as maybe they wanted though. It seems like after Alina settled at the palace the writing kind of forgot about the identity theme for a couple episodes.
I also think that with Matthias storyline they are on really thin ice but I actually think they avoided many tropes that made it feel like: "Your reward is a girlfriend." Because both Matthias and Nina were given scenes where they could actively decide against or for the relationship. For Nina it was when the ship sunk. Where she actievly decided the save his life. Sure, from a story point of view she could not have survived without him, but she could also have said: "I do not want to survived with the man who wants to kill me. I am better try to survive on my own and die as a free person:" And for Matthias it was the moment where he does not let Nina drop into the ice I also do not think that by the end he has overcome his prejudges. I think he not even started working against the prejudges he still have. I think he only - maybe only for a moment - tries to live an illusion. A world where only his happiness matters. He just pushes everything down, instead of working through it. That is also why he recats so extrem when Nina gets him intp prison. Because in fact he never moved away from his hatred. Just for a short moment he pretended it didn't exists
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SIX OF CROWS . . . Yes, this is exactly what I thought too. In the books, the flashbacks felt very similar to the scenes in the show and he gets thrown back into reality when Nina gets him into prison. He only starts to actively work against his prejudices once they're in Fjerda again and even then it's very slow and he doesn't manage to work them out completely in the end. I'm really curious how they manage to implement his inner monologue during Six Of Crows and Crooked Kingdom because he corrects himself a lot in his thoughts and works through a lot of it in his head, trying to make sense of what he has learned in Fjerda and the stuff he learned and experienced later on. But we'll see.
I've got to say that saying bc it's a fantasy show and therefore is escapist and seeing racism portrayed is jarring is for me not a valid argument bc every movie/show/book no matter its genre is saying something about our present, and usually racism IS portrayed in these works only through metaphor or symbols (grisha being persecuted is one of them but muggles being hunted by death eaters is another example), and I think it's important to openly address racism instead of talking about it through metaphor bc it forces the audience to acknowledge their own prejudices/biases/violence against others and for me saying is jarring is refusing to engage with the work
I haven’t read any of the books, so I didn’t know that Alina was originally white! As someone who is Asian American and mixed race, I was so excited to see a character who I could so closely identify with in ways I haven’t been able to before! Alina is visibility “different” from those in Ravka, yet doesn’t have a strong connection to her Shu Han heritage (like when she first meets the King and Queen she says she doesn’t speak Shu). I understand the sentiment that some of the racism towards Alina hits close to real life, I was shocked the first time someone called her a rice eater. But I think it’s super important acknowledge and create a conversation about the very real racism Asians face, even if the vehicle is a fantasy setting. The YA genre is oversaturated with white leads, so I am overjoyed to see more diversity. I really hope it’s something they get to explore more in future seasons!
Leigh DIDN'T explicitly describe Alina's ethnicity in the books and we only ever know that she was born in Dva Stolba in the Shu-Ravkan borderland. Her parents are also dead.
@@MrJordwalk Ah, fair enough. Unfortunately, white tends to be seen as the default in literature, lots of people assume that a character is white unless they're explicitly described otherwise. But regardless of Leigh's intention, I am glad that the show made the decision to write her explicitly as Shu and allow for more Asian representation on screen.
Also I have never understood the enjoyment of a love triangle. I WAY more enjoy two people breaking up and having a good or interesting relationship with one another when they are either both or one of them dating someone and the other still working on themselves. We’re here for character growth. That or let’s bring out a poly relationship hell yeaaaaah
Yeah, I suffered the Throne of Glass triangles, but I was actually surprised with how the relationships ended up working out. It felt more realistic too for the protagonist to not just like, find their soulmate in the first chapter, or have two toxic people fighting for her, it's understandable to go through multiple relationships before finding "the one"
@@Kirayni that’s the Sarah j mass ones yeah? I honesty have stayed the fuck away from fantasy YA since hunger games because the formula just made me want to cry with boredom. Plus finding gay characters that don’t die just like. Nah. Now I am Hopeful as thing start to change. I took up serial podcasts like Alice isn’t dead and time:bombs and have been having such a good time. Also critical role and the adventure zone balance (series 1) all gay, fun and not filled with tropes that make you tired and want to scream. Also no ‘I’m not like other girls’ moments
@@FrancisFabricates ye, I watch CR too! Those books are not perfect, but that particular growth was... refreshing at the time. And the fact that they still remained friends. I’m currently reading less, mostly Brandon Sanderson, so I have not been touching too much the can of worms that sometimes YA books can become D: I still like them tho oops
@@FrancisFabricates Gay characters dying is far more common in adult fantasy than it is YA. The YA sphere has made a massive push for diversity in the last few years. One of the most hyped YA releases of last year was about a Latino gay trans boy written by a nonbinary author. That's Cemetery Boys by Aiden Thomas, if you were curious. I think you really have a wrong idea of what YA is in your head. It's not the same as it was in the early 2010s.
i absoloutley agree with the matthias/nina storyline, when i was watching the show it very much felt like something was missing, only now do i realise it's matthias' internal struggle
Something that I thought was interesting was that Jesper seems to know at least a little of Kazs backstory involving Pekka Rollins. It’s only hinted at twice but I think it will be cool to see play out if I’m right and not thinking to much into it lol
I was so confused by that - it seems kind of out of character for Kaz to have said something, but also I get it as a dramatic device in the show to build tension because it shows the audience Kaz is hiding something from us/Inej in regards to Rollins, I guess?
i remember me and my friend reading six of crows a few years ago and barely talking about anything else for weeks! it's so surreal to see so many people i look up to talking about it now 😅😅
The other thing that happens (irl) with people who have one person in their life that they like but is someone they're taught to hate from early years is they get the mindset of "but YOU are one of the good ones" instead of actually examining the whole basis of why they were taught to hate at all. It's a way to appease the cognitive dissonance in a way that's not actually very constructive.
When I was teaching in Japan I was told by a 3-year old "My dad says all foreigners are bad... but _you're_ ok though." So yes, you're absolutely right.
From what I remember from the books, Matthias goes through this thought process of "maybe Nina is not so bad, but grishas are still bad" to "oh, shit I was wrong, grishas deserve better". I hope we get to see this in the series too.
As a asian who has encountered racism, I LOVE that Alina is half asian. Her encountering racism actually made me even feel MORE for her and I clearly understood that the reason for all the racism is because they have a conflict with an asian country and i found that very interesting. I just now learned she was white and wow, that would have been SO boring. A beautiful white girl who feels like an outsider? That's so over done.
I didn't know the story of Shadow and Bone before watching this (in fact I think I only realised there was an entire trilogy before Six of Crows while I was reading Crooked Kingdom), so I didn't know it would be so tropey in terms of chosen ones, prince/general romances, that sort of stuff. What I love about the show though is that Alina's story and the Crows' story are both so different, almost as if they belonged to different stories, and you get the best of both
This was one of the few things I was disappointed in and I like bedsprings as a trope and sometimes even enemies-to-lovers - it has such potential when done well. But this was really meh. (Edit: not bedsprings, bed-sharing)
[spoilers] yess it was so annoying, I haven't read the book so idk if he's cooler there, but what I saw was him being just sexist and prejudiced (not to mention the whole people in chains thing), and he also looks super basic and I can't even remember his face too well. The first "cute laughing" moment they had was when he was talking about how women should stay at home and are weak? And he was laughing because he found it hilarious that a woman (or Nina in this case) could be stronger than him? The fact that she laughed with him at him belittling women was a bit cringy and out of character imo :( It's sad to see such a cool woman as Nina being ready to sacrifice her whole life to escape with some guy who's only character traits are sexism, prejudice and being a bit dumb, considering that she has known him for like a week? And yes he saved her from falling into the ice cave but her powers gave him warmth and honestly who would like to be left alone in a snow desert? I really like Nina so the Matthias thing really spoiled her character story for me :( sorry for the rant I had to get it off my chest lol
It is better explained in the books, their story in the series felt a bit shoe-horned in and quite rushed. Like Rowan said, you read about his inner struggle and he is actively working on overcoming his prejudices. I think he also benefits from the parts of the plot taking place in Fjerda and featuring the truly shitty person who played a big part in Matthias' upbringing. Still his were always some of my least favorite chapters because of his bigotry.
In that case I'm super excited to read Six of Crows, they already had my favorite romance in the show, some episodes I was on the edge of my seat waiting for their story to come up
I'd just like to mention that while there isnt racism in the Shadow and Bone books, there is mention and acts of racism in the Six of Crows and the King of Scars books
Thank you for putting a finger on why this show is one of the few I can stand to watch: it's very similar to how I read fiction aka two books at once, it helps break the tension / stress of each plot line to the point where we can empathise and understand without having to have our guts twisting for 20 minutes in one go.
I agree a lot with what you say about Matthias - though as a Norwegian I'm also extremely tired of the 'violent northern barbarian hunting people' trope in media right now so that cold have clouded my impression of him
@@mme.veronica735 the Vikings as we know them today were no worse than their contempoarary counterparts. Sure, a they did participate in the slave trade, but us modern folk must keep in mind they were far from the most powerful players on the board. Not to mention that they only capitalized on the already flourishing slave trade around the mediterranean. The myth only lives because we have literally no primary sources from Viking Age Scandinavia or Iceland (the codex regius is 13th century at best) so our sources are from the places the Vikings invaded or raided (ie very biased) Also - no matter what the Vikings did 1000 years ago, the 'violent northern barbarian' trope still deserves to die
I can certainly see how that could get tiresome and at this point the trope has just been codified from the crapload of media (especially fantasy) that continues to be made so I can't see it dying anytime soon. That being said in the Grishaverse the Fjerdans have a whole European witch trials situation going on, which was certainly not exclusive to northern Europe so it seems the viking trope and witch trial trope has been mashed together in this case.
The love triangle definitely felt very dated. It's only redeeming quality is that the Darkling is enough of narcissistic asshole that you read the whole thing as abuse and manipulation and not real romance, and feel really relieved when Alina also starts to see it for what it is. Also, as someone who watched the show without reading the book, and liked the Kaz and crew storyline the most, the fact that they've combined two series into one explained a lot!
SO glad to see someone else with the same criticisms on Nina and Matthias’s portrayal as I have. Not only were they rushed, but they glossed over to their respective loyalties to Ravka and Fjerda. It was so important to both their characters, *especially* Nina-she says explicitly in SOC that she put the safety of Ravka first, and she would do it again. Because it was so lightly touched on, the show audience is going to think their decisions as individuals are only tied to one another and not their countries. Also, ⚠️CROOKED KINGDOM SPOILERS⚠️ I agree that Matthias’s redemption arc was weak in the duology. That’s why I think it was so important for him to die. It wouldn’t have been satisfying for him to finally /decide/ at the end of CK that, hey, maybe Grisha aren’t evil. But his death made a narratively satisfying tragedy. With the track he’s on in the show right now, his arc won’t carry that same weight. Overall, though, I’m willing to look past it when I rate the show holistically, because I loved it so much and am DESPERATE for a season 2.
Nina and Matthias have the weakest story line on the show (have not read the books so I can't say for sure there). But I still liked their story line. I see it as a great example of someone coming from cult coming out of the cult by making friends with the enemy. Their version of this story is different then I have seen done in other places. Matthias seems to be someone who just needed to get away from his group and be shown some genuine affection to break free. It is just lucky for him the person who shows him that affection is someone he is attracted too and is attracted back. This does happen in real life Megan Phelps-Roper is a good example of this. Unfortunately at the end of the season his cult programming is back up but that happens too
I read the books. And I loved the Malyen and Alina dynamic. I felt for him in the second. It's hard loving someone and knowing u can't be with them. And his realization was towards the end. It just took him a while, and dealing with not feeling that u belong is awful. I felt that Alina felt that distancing from him and when asked he was truthful to her. And I don't think he meant to guilt her.... He is just so frank which I loved. Anybody in that situation would be jealous of a prince.
"2 foxes in the garden" - a very cute ending for a wonderful video. Love your take on the show, gave me an opportunity to redigest my viewing and really consider the vital differences between read and viewed media. The diverse casting, the reworking of the love triangle to be less manipulative and possesive, and the subtle and wonderful acting choices really made this show for me. I'm a huge fan of Matthias and his character arc in the books, but you brought to light something that I'd never really considered, and which helps explain my slight disapointment specifically with Nina and Matthias's time on screen. It really is a bit awkward and uncomfortable that we don't get to see Matthias' inner monologue, and we're just seeing a bigot try to relearn his worldview so that he can win a girlfriend at the end. I'm really hoping we get to see a more complex and less uncomfortable redemption from Matthias in season two (crossing my fingers that we get there)!
This is almost an entirely separate issue from this series in specific, but I wanted to see if anyone felt the same. Hollywood has a history of casting mixed-race actors to represent minorities like Jesper and Mal (whose heritage is unsaid? But is ambiguously not-white). I think because Jessie is mixed it’s a wonderful choice to add that into the story. But it’s really frustrating as a POC to feel like the only type of representation that’s popular or celebrated is POC “diluted” by whiteness. You see colourism everywhere and it’s so complicated! Because mixed-race people often don’t get accurate representation either (in terms of feeling not belonging to either group and feeling marginalized that way etc.) but they often DO get jobs but those jobs are to represent “all black people” or “all Chinese” people. And it’s just a sad side note that I can’t help but thinking about whenever I see all of these shows being celebrated for diversity or representation. Although if there are more Shu characters within the story, I REALLY hope they cast fully-Chinese actors to play them. Is that bad to say? I don’t mean to be exclusionary - but it feels like the erasure of what my culture and my people ACTUALLY look like and replacing it with a curated white-washed image of who and what they want Chinese people to be. Particularly if they’re marginalized; it’s not that there wouldn’t be mixed-race characters but practically there shouldn’t be a lot of them representing the whole of the population that we as an audience see.
I'm not sure how i feel abt Jesper, but Mal was deliberately written as mixed-raced in the show because the creators wanted Mal and Alina to bond over their sense of being mixed and not belonging.
I think Jesper was explicitly mixed race in the book rather than full Zemeni (Black) so his mixed race casting makes sense, but I definitely agree that colorism is definitely a thing and more darker skinned POC should have a place in media. S&B is kinda remarkable for how many POC there is in it as a piece of Western fantasy media (both frustrating and hopeful) , but I definitely agree that mixed race people shouldn't be the only ones getting opportunities. I really do hope that they cast fully Asian characters for Tolya and Tamar (two prominent Shu characters from book 2 of the series) and continue to include POC in the broader cast going forwards.
maybe its because i never read the books so i only have a very general idea of what to compare it to, but nina and matthias were honestly one of my favorite parts of the show. their chemistry was SO GOOD and it felt like sort of a little break/respite from everything else going on in the rest of the series. I always found myself grinning like a crazy person after their scenes (maybe just bcs I now have a massive crush on danielle galligan but-)
So much this! I especially love your insights on foreshadowing and giving characters more agency... (And yes, the Matthias character arc was a bit too syncopated when translated to completely get what's going on internally.)
I love these type of videos from you, when I finished the series and knew you had watched it too I wanted to pick your brains about it because I wanted your take on it so I was so excited when you posted on twitter about doing a video like this. Thank you and please continue with these types of videos along with your regular content. Much love peace.
I totally agree!! I didn't read the books, so I didn't knew the story, and the hole kidnapper to lover thing really made me uncomfortable, the way she just seems to forgive him so easily and she's the one teasing him to like her was kind of a nonsense. I think it would be really better if they kept her angry at him, and him slowly learning to respect her, regreting profoundly, being sorry and looking for her forgiveness before any love storyline, they should build a friendship based on respect. This was the only story line that felt a little off to me.
I highly agree with your comments on the Nina and Matthias plot line. Like in the books when Nina is captured she challenges him and orders him to bring them water because they are human beings, and Matthias acts like he won't but then he does, and that for me felt much more like Nina is one of the first people who has challenged him on his views and he looked around at all of them in the cage and felt empathy and then he acted on it despite his better judgement. Like cause he is only 18 and I think it's been a couple years of him being a drüskelle but maybe every Grisha he has captured has like been too scared to say anything or just like screamed profanities rather than challenging him like Nina does. And then she actually used that water to help her un cuff herself and some other Grisha which Matthias finds out when the ship has been demolished and just yeah their backstory has like a lot more beef between them and they begrudgingly help each other survive because they need to, which ends up organically leading to a weird friendship/crush. I do wish it had been more friendship orientated in both the books and the show as it is really was just Matthias thinking she's fit plays into the reason he likes her. Like what if Nina was ugly? Guess she would have just died RIP.
I love your section about the show giving Alina more agency because that's something I also noticed and really appreciated, and I think it's highlighted even in the first episode where she makes the choice to go into the Fold with Mal because she doesn't want him to face that alone.
Alina facing racism while the other characters of color doesn't does kinda make sense in the context of the grishaverse tho. Ravka have been at war with Shu Han for a long time and we see anti shu propaganda at a couple of points in the series. The racism is probably mostly caused by that and is very ingrained in people by the time the series starts. And while Ravka have been at war with Fjerda too there isn't as much, if any, racial difference between Ravkans and Fjerdans so there wouldn't make any sense to focus on apperence to mock them. They mostly seem to focus on mocking the Fjerdan culture rather then the people themselves. On the other hand, the Suli (Inej and Zoya) come from Ravka so ravkans would be used to seeing them and Novyi Zem (Jesper) is on the other side of an ocean so they wouldn't have much conflict with Ravka. The Zemeni are also very important for trade so Ravka wouldn't want to piss them off. And of course they amp it all up for the series to make a statement but it's not unsurprising for this to happen considering the politics of the grishaverse.
Netflix poured money into S&B marketing so I'm really hoping it won't be cancelled, it doesn't seem like it, especially since it did pretty well in viewership
@@toria7242 I am trying to watch it atm and I am finding it SO hard to get through. Had the same issue with Irregulars. Neither has the spark that shadow and Bone have and Jupiter has the boys and invincible up against it that from what I have seen are much better. Shadow and Bone has been called ‘Netflix’s GOTs’ which while I say fuck that because GOTs was gross and terrible, it’s good in the sense of money making. The show also allows for spin offs with the crow crew and has a HUGE established fan base.
@@FrancisFabricates Yes absolutely! Shadow and Bone has a much bigger fanbase for sure and seems to be the best investment. Yeah, I haven't started it yet, but I've mainly seen people say Jupiter's Legacy takes it's time. I think that it was a really good decision to combine the six of crows with shadow and bone because I can see how it might have lagged a bit like JL without it
There's that quote from the book that Mal says to Alina about the Darkling, "I love every part of you, even the part that loved him" which is actually just way better than the "you don't need to explain anything." Mal's jealousy was mostly in book 2 so he was a pretty good love interest in book 1, even if he was less likeable because of being written from only Alina's perspective and mostly absent from the first part of the book.
Book 2 *spoilers* I gave Mal waay more credit when I realised Mal wasn't so much jealous as A. worried about power seeking rather than say, trying to see if the fold can be destroyed, and his misgivings are foreshadowing for what the third amplifier turns out to be B. experiencing a breakup the main character never acknowledged... Like, it actually said that Alina hadn't talked to him privately (or kissed him) in weeks, then apparently more than a month, so apparently he was kind of being ghosted while still being her body guard?? You realise later that other characters, even Zoya, were trying to get her to talk to him and at least tell him where he stood, so that was pretty weird. And everyone else knew he was fighting Grisha each night, and apparently coming in with bruises every morning, so it was pretty obvious. He was pissed at Nickolai, because N did come out with I don't respect your relationship at all convo. I'm poly and would still respond to that as contempt, rather than thinking it was about possessiveness. You also see in the books that Alina has been missing Mal's devotion to her all along, in the first chapter she thinks he's not interested, but what he actually says is it's always you & me, while in her dialogue she jokes about sleeping with a nice corporalnik, so yeah, the multiple pov works waaay better than the single povs in the books.
I hope the New Percy Jackson series kind of do something like that where they can pay lip service to the other books within that universe especially because I want to Magnus Chase adaptation really bad. But if I'm not mistaken I do know that the crane Chronicles is getting a different company to make it that outpatient so I guess they would have to be left out anyways which kind of sucks CV
I think it'll be interesting to see if and how matthias changes and unlearns. What I really want is Nina and Matthias falling out to eventually lead to him unlearning those awful things and growing on his own accord. In a way that doesn't feel tied to Nina, as you said
FINALLY someone else who hates the nina mettaias storyline in the show. like nina is legitimately one of my favourite characters in the books but here i just hate them and they steal away from the main goal. like it would have been better for them to be in season two or three where they are supposed to be. they just feel odd here.
As someone who hasn't read the books, it was definitely the weakest part of the show for me. Just seemed kind of forced and pointless (for now at least) and I think that time could've been used better expanding the "training" section as I felt the Kirigan reveal and Mal/Alina reunion ended up feeling slightly rushed. Seems like swapping it out would've been a win/win, but I suppose if it's there to lay groundwork for future seasons it might end up being better in retrospect.
As a non-book reader (I only read S&B) I agree, it felt really rushed and the dialogue was really corny. I liked the chemistry between them but I didn't like how they executed the story. Maybe if the season had two more eposides it could've worked better.
Yes, the Nina & Matthias storyline was irritating to me (and way too tropy). I haven't read the books so I can't say if I would like that version better. Edit: In the end, when he accuses her of manipulating him, I was just so done with Matthias.
As someone who read the books, a lot of Mathias's strength as a character is to explore cult behavior. The druskelle are really, really fucked up and in fjerdan, kids are groomed from a young age to join. To make a very long story short, Matthias not only has been under EXTREME conditions his entire life, but he has actively been lied to all his life by the hypocrites he calls leaders (and he is somehow aware of the fact they are hypocrites, he just doesn't want to admit it). The man has trust issues. He was also taught, before anything else to hate all grisha, to see them as manipulative monsters hiding as humans, so Nina "betraying" him is confirmation for him that there are no "good ones". At this point in the story, it's very likely he has never felt any genuine affection. Ever. Also, yes, he is very slightly stupid (and extremely stubborn). The book deals a lot better with that plotline, and you can also get some hindsight bin his internal monologue, which doesn't hurt either.
I was scrolling on tumblr while listening to this and just as you were talking about Kaz's touch aversion I came across a gifset of all the instances in the show where they show it! The internet gods have smiled upon me today or something haha
The show is fine although it does have a few flaws. It's not as terrible as other adaptations. I do like the actor for Jesper but what I really loved about Jesper in the book is that he was dark skinned and was bi and flirty and just ya know, not seen as just a "tough, super straight, he was in a gang" type dark skinned black character, personality wise. Ya know, I wanted another Moonlight type dark skinned guy. So them making Jesper in the show light skinned was kinda upsetting but again I do really like the actor. Also I'm sorry but Kaz definitely should've looked different, I like that actor too but he had dark black hair and just idk, he didn't look as intimidating as I wanted him to look. But overall it's a good adaptation all things considering.
ahh six of crows is my favourite series, but i haven't read shadow and bone and i was scared to watch the show because i have been consistently let down by ya adaptations but now i feel like i gotta watch it
Omg I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the hints they dropped about Jesper being Grisha! I've watched a few different reviews/reaction vids, but yours is the only one who noticed that or at least mentioned that you caught that. I agree with you about Nina and Matthias. At the least, I think they should have saved the romantic development a little longer because that bit did feel ridiculous for how little time they had onscreen.
I watched the show in two days (and went in not expecting to like it tbh) and the next day I was on the phone with the librarian, asking her to order the books for me. Really a surprisingly good show :) I mean, there were definitely things that annoyed me. I'm interested to see if these things were carried over from the books or if they were changes made for the show.
I enjoyed the show. I read the original trilogy after the duology and I'm glad I did, because I'm not sure I would have picked it up if I read the trilogy first. On the whole I think the show does a lot better than the trilogy but yeah, it's not perfect. The Alina-Mal relationship was a complete drag for me in the books. Still not the biggest fan of that aspect, but it works better at least. Can't wait for Tamar and Wylan to show up.
It had its flaws for sure (cough cough BROWN FACE cough cough) but this is definitely one of the best book to series adaptations in recent memory Keeping my fingers crossed for Percy Jackson 👀👀👀
Where was the brown face? Not saying it wasn’t that I just didn’t know it happened so I would love to know thank you. (I’m mega autistic so I don’t mean to sound rude but sometimes I do. I very much want to know politely)
@@FrancisFabricates omg noo you're not rude❤️ you probably don't know it. They casted a white stunt for Amita aka Inej and they literally painted her face to brown. They literally could've found a poc stunt so easily😐
@@harperandrea4462 and thank you, dealing with an Internet full of Karen’s even when I explain tirelessly I’m not being rude I get told off like I’m 5 and it’s very tiring when I am just asking because being informed is important to me.
The whole jealousy thing is also why i hated "Mortal Instruments" so much but loved "Shadowhunters" deeply In Shadowhunters we also have scenes where Simon and Jace bitch at eachother because of Clary but she is never dragged into it, in a way that they try to manipulated her or try to make her feel bad about her attraction And eventually Simon and Jace become friends but in the book it is just 400 pages of Simon being a possessive jealous asshole. It was so annyoning to read that i never picked up another TMI book. And I am glad Shadow and Bone took the samr road :)
I like this style of commentary on stories, it's fun. So this got long but I wrote thoughts on points in the video 😅 I haven't gone looking for other reviews yet but I'll check out Asian perspectives too see how others articulate what they felt about Alina's storyline - in my case I feel like I slipped into the world much smoother *because* of the racist abuse, maybe because it's familiar to me (being mixed race Asian). But I can totally understand that it's divisive, and it'd be jarring for others. I'm still internally organising why I *did* feel discomfort but nonetheless brushed it away while watching - it could be that it's just habit, from real life. I do prefer that they addressed in-universe racism on some level, rather than 'colour-blind casting' and then totally dismissing that identity, to a tone-deaf result (like "Bridgerton" and "Irregulars"). Ignoring ('blind casting') ≠ acceptance / understanding. The show's politics and nations felt really grounded, and the civil war plotline probably helped in that. The Fjerdans are a people I'd like to see more of in s2, I don't know the books so my impression of them is narrowed down to the word of the characters. But I would so so love to see Fjerdan women speak their mind. Matthias has got to be full of shit, he's an unreliable point of reference for the entirety of his culture. Him and Nina surviving together was intriguing since he started to re-evaluate his prejudices, but I hated the romance angle… literal power imbalance + romancing the slaver had me squicked out. The Darkling definitely felt sympathetic all the way through to the flashback, then his iconic line, and I remember consciously pulling back from the immersion to look at how the show did that. Immersive to the point they I feel like the shipping could get ugly, like another we've of K*lo/Rey shipping. Ben Barnes's acting was really fun to watch, to see the Darkling dial up the humanity and trap Alina in this situation with lots of manipulation. And Alina stabbing him in the hand was s o satisfying
i hadn’t read the books before i watched the series, and after i finished i read them all. this show has done so well in really drawing its audience in and making them want more.
I watched the show and agree with the whole take on the YA love triangle. I actually switched off on the whole Shadow and Bone elements. I ended up watching the whole series just because of the Crow elements. I'd like just a series dedicated to that side of the show.
I’ve gotta say Matthias was my least favourite character in the book but I thought his character was much better in the show. Maybe it was because the actor was beautiful tho...I thought their romance might come off a /little/ rushed if you hadn’t read the book but either way it was great to watch.
As a Russian I am outraged with the show. This show proves that Netflix can create Slavic atmosphere when they want - costumes, architecture, interiors etc are done surprisingly well. Also the racial diversity is connected to the plot and makes perfect sense in the context of the universe. Why didn't The Witcher receive the same treatment?
I have not read the books, and I haven't even gotten very far in this video. But I'm glad it's clear that you're happy with it from the get-go. I skimmed some reviews online before beginning it and they were really lukewarm at best, and I just didn't feel that way at all upon completing it. I'm eager for season 2!
I love watching your videos, they are amazing. You deserve way more subs than you have. I would love to hear you talking about Todd Chavez from BoJack horseman at some point.
Something I really disliked that I don't see anyone talking about is how they changed the darkling's backstory? In the books, he's betrayed by his love interest who tries to KILL HIM to get his bones as amplifiers. I believe the fold comes later. To me, this made a lot of sense, especially regarding his lack of trust in Alina. I also think it made Bahgra more sympathetic because the lessons she ends up teaching are directly applicable (don't trust others, the only thing that matters is power etc). Whereas in the TV show, it ends up feeling very... Watered down? Cliché and much less relevant.
Thanks for a great video! Agree with all, and some things you mentioned I hadn't thought of, or wasn't aware I was thinking it until you put it in words lol. Yes please more of this kind.
Learned about the show because my oomf on Twitter was complaining about racism being a part of the story and said it "ruined the escapism". I hate how people like him don't take other people's experiences into account.
I wasn't entirely convinced by Kaz's changes in his character, but when you started saying that they could have made a scene kind of exposing who Kaz instead of just hinting it with Freddy's performance, that sounded like something that they definitely could have done and I hate it. Now I am appreciating Kaz's arc and performance a lot more.
Thank you for this (seemingly spoiler-light?) review. I heard some buzz about Shadow and Bone but I didn't have any specific reasons to watch it. You, however, have now sold me on it, and I intend to give it a try. :)
i read the grishaverse books back in 2017, and the fact that i could not remember whether the west ravkan separatism/general zlatan subplot came from the books really speaks to how successfully they were able to build this world on screen and how well they understood the material they were adapting (...or maybe it speaks to the state of my memory, but that's a different issue)
Knife Wife for Life. Also, I hope Alina gets to experience life in places that don't give a crap about her Shu heritage in next season. From the synopses of the other books, the plots don't excite me. It would be way more interesting to get some new direction. Have the Crows help Nina get Matthias out of prison in season 2, but scrap the Ice Court business. Too similar to the expedition across the Fold. Give them some other thing to do. Maybe actually go to Novyi Zem. Alina and Mal could be in hiding there as well.
Speaking as someone who's asian american, I actually really appreciated the authentic representation of the casual day to day racism, microaggressions, insults that I've experienced in the past. With all the anti-asian hate going around right now, this narrative discourse that is in the show is really needed, tbh. I really appreciate that people, non-asian americans, are gonna watch this and be like, Damn, so that's what it's like huh? All in all the show handled it really well, it felt fresh, it didn't feel like a tragic cliche, they didn't reduce alina to just her racialized suffering, they avoided a lot of the mistakes in representing and addressing racism.
And as for the "escapism", I think for me the ultimate positive escapism which carries me away from the shit that we know exists in the real world, which transports me away from my traumas and bad memories, is all the moments where her friends actually stand up with her. Growing up I never really had friends who were like that, they mostly just laughed along with the mockery or ducked away. So it was really fucking refreshing when in the first episode, the cafeteria food server guy was like "Hey what's this Shu Han girl doing here?", her friends and comrades are like "WTF she was born here, she's one of us", and when the cafeteria guy refuses to serve her food, her friends chuck their plates and go without food in solidarity with her. Also that moment when Alina just got to the little palace and first meets Genya the tailor, and one of the attendants snidely remarks "maybe you can change her eyes to look less shu", and then Genya kicks them all out. So many asians grow up hating themselves and thinking they're ugly. Having real friends that go out of their way to stick up for you even if they aren't affected, who aren't racist, who aren't making fun of your eyes, who stand in solidarity, who are actual allies, that's the real escapism.
Thank you for sharing something so personal and insightful. I really appreciate hearing your perspective about this. :)
What a powerful comment! Thank you for sharing this, you are golden
I struggle to call it escapism for me personally since i’m more of the type of person to want a completely different world where the issues are more difficult to compare to irl ones, but i can completely get where you’re coming from. It was kind of refreshing to see racism directed at a half-asian ngl. There have been more wasian protagonists in shows recently but even when racism is brought up in those, it’s never directed at the mix asian. I’m half chinese and have experienced quite a bit of racism(tho mostly just micro aggressions) and to see people actually acknowledge the fact that it happens is nice. Also i’ve never seen a asian mc in a mainstream high fantasy show like this. I thought it was really well done aswell.
Alina’s race is not mentioned in the books and none of the racist interactions are there in the book. It is nice that they made her Asian American in the show and also show discrimination etc.
This is a well put and interesting interpretation of this show, thank you for sharing. I am now very interested in actually watching this show.
as a speaker of Russian I'm cursed to laugh every time I hear "grisha" as it's Russian petname for Gregory. imagine, a Japanese leading studio makes a series about Western Frontieresque space colony, and the man-eating giant insectoids are called Maggie
made even funnier since the book series is inspired by and influenced by russia/russian aesthetics apparently
I liked the show, but from what I hear Leigh Bardugo really seems to have done almost zero research before making a fantasy version of Russia when she wrote the books. I mean, even I know “Starkov” isn’t right for a female character, and I barely know anything about Russia.
@@jacobd1984 Leigh Bardugo definitely very loosely used Russian inspiration for her universe, it was mainly used for aesthetic and feel and the particular plot element of Ravka being a country that has failed to effectively industrialize in comparison to its neighbours. It is certainly not accurate to actual Russian history or culture and probably causes some cringing from actual Russians, but I still think its fun. :)
@@hurricaneofcats That’s too bad. I’ll probably read the books at some point anyway, and I’ll probably still enjoy them. I’m just a big fan of stories with fantasy counterparts to real countries, so I’m disappointed the similarities are fairly limited.
@@jacobd1984 There are still some interesting comparisons to make and some legitimate parallels to Russia. Personally I don't think any fantasy series that creates its own world truly constructs an accurate portrait of any real country. Most fantasy settings based on or inspired by real places are abstracted from reality to different degrees and similarity to an actual culture does not guarantee something is good. I don't think the Grishaverse is worse because it is not accurate to Russia, it just takes particular aspects that facilitate the story, plot, and worldbuilding and evokes the desired feel, which definitely works.
Honestly, hot take, but if the six of crows plotline was removed, the show would be really boring. Because there are so many tired tropes and clichés that when well executed (and they are) can be good, but that secondary plotline breathes life into the show and gives us space away from those tropes that would get old so much faster
I literally said to my friend that if they had only adapted the first book then I wouldn't have watched the show til the crows showed up lol
Haven't read the books, BUT, I agree, I actually think the crows carried the show the whole way through (as in, I was really looking forward to the scenes that they were featured in, no exceptions).
I may or may not have tired my dad out by praising them in every turn, I can honestly say I fell in love with them.☺️
not really a hot take, from the videos i have seen, most of the comments are saying that the heist plot line was good.
a real hot take would be that if they removed the heist plot line, the story wouldn't have changed at all. they did absolutely nothing lol. they failed at basically everything they planned and the only thing they "did"? was have a carriage there for alina. lol. and even that was accidental and can not be credited to them honestly :D
also when talking about tropes, one of the biggest tropes was in the heist plotline and they had many lol. the gun slinger who is constantly spinning his gun for no reason. he would be so much faster on the draw if he didn't keep spinning em every time : p ok another one just for kicks :D inej the silent assassin who's basically female batman? : p
Exactly!!! Which is why i don't get why they didn't simply to a soc adaptation and chose a mainly sab adaptation
It's like when your reading a book with multiple points of view and every time its a chapter with a boring character you end up skimming through paragraphs until its a more intresting character/story
SPOILERS:
also the grisha in the series use hand motions when they use their power. Jesper twirls his pistols every time he is going to shoot ;)
I should have noticed that
fuck that's good
I noticed that and was legit like, duude, why do you keep doing that, it's inefficient
That makes sense now...
I did notice that he exesivly swirls his guns but I just figured it was more of a habit 😅 an I also thought that Grisha had to make specific hand movements to use their powers (maybe like Naruto) but I does make more sense that it works more that some grisha tried something and found that it worked and shares it with everyone to the point that it just becomes the norm (maybe like ATLA (Avatar) )
ooooooh all i noticed was the camerawork around jesper's shooting good eye
I'm just praying next season they make it more clear that Jesper is bi and not gay. They only showed him having interest in guys (other than the throw away compliment to the barmaid he leaves Milo with) and in the BTS interview on Netflix they explicitly call him gay, not bi. I'll be really angry and upset to see bi-erasure here, especially because we'll likely only see straight/Matthias driven romance plots out of Nina compared to her pan/bi relationships in KOS/ROW
yes! that was one of the only big complaints i had about the show! i was waiting all season for jesper to show some attraction to women, hoping it wasn't going to erase his sexuality. like surely it wouldn't have been that hard to toss in a couple of extra lines or something at least? i actually didn't know about the bts part, i think that's made me just a little more annoyed 😅
Okay but if Nina moves on from that lump of wet white bread Matthias and gets with a girl who actually respects her and treats her like a human it would be so good
the actor has called him bi on numerous ocasions so im hoping they will at least have him make some comments as to his atraction to women. I mean I'm sure that if they introduce wylan next season they will have the iconic "not just girls" line so that's smth.
hard agree here, I love Jesper so much and would hate to see an important part of his character erased like that. Bi people exist, and I want to be able to see people like me in the media I love!
@@mme.veronica735 all I'm saying is you should read King of Scars and Rule of Wolves then, won't give away too much, especially because a lot winds up being fairly major spoilers, but you maybe might kinda see that (though Matthias is sososo much better and more important in the books)
As a brown person the thing that immediately drew me to the trailer was the fact that the main character was not white, I know it sounds cliche but my goodness fantasy is so stupidly white that just that made a huge difference to me. I agree that the cast seem to really understand their characters.
''my goodness fantasy is so stupidly white'' what does this even mean?
@@joek600 A lot of the main characters are white and deals with only a white persons' perspective
@@alphaz27 And what exactly stops anyone from writing fantasy with non white main characters today? And is it so important to you to match the ethnicity of a character? Cant you just enjoy a novel for its actual story?
@@joek600 For your first question, I don't know what stops them I'm not the author.
Secondly I am a black person and it's just nice to see myself in media that I like to consume (be it a black person, a woman or a gay person).
And lastly I am enjoying the story but the characters are what adds to, they make you enjoy the story and if you didn't like the characters, you probably wouldn't enjoy the story.
I will say, that I was just answering your question bc OP hadn't responded to you yet.
@@joek600 dude, if you belong to groups that have near constant representation, you won't ever know how it feels to finally see someone like you in a story.
Whether that ethnicity, sexuality, gender or even your disease.
Obviously positively. Not the butt of the joke like transwomen used to be, or as some kind of stereotypical enemy.
We don't want to retcon existing stories. We just want to see ourselves represented in some positive form.
Which is why the top commenter was happy to see someone like herself as the main person.
Why would more 'diverse' characters even be a problem if you got no problem identifying with every character anyway?
Love triangles are one of the major reasons why I barely read YA anymore. Ease up, authors!
I read this really good comment on a tumblr post (I think) which said how it's actually a Love corner cause it's just two men cornering in on one girl ahahah. Like a love triangle would be a poly plot line where each character fancies two other people, which would be a lot better cause there is no polyamorous rep. Give me some proper love triangle YA romance!
It never really felt like a love triangle to me, at least not in the books. By the time that she actually knew how Mal felt about her, she had moved on from The Darkling. I know it still is technically a love triangle, but it wasn't so "I love him, no wait, I love him, but I love him, and I love them both!" like a lot of YA books. Mostly because Mal isn't around for the entirety of her romance with the Darkling
Does it count as a love triangle if it's three women deciding to become a polyamorous trio?
True. But to be fair, I don't feel like Shadow and Bone ever had an actual love triangle.
Solution: Poly
I can't wait for wylan to be introduced and I'm so ready for wesper
mood
Hell yes
I mean i love milo but wylan is my favorite character...
I’ll be honest I imagined all the characters as mid to late 20s when I read six of crows so when I learned wylan and jesper were meant to be love interests I was like wtf isn’t Jesper like 30
I was Wrong and I’m glad lol
The thing about Matthias is that in the books he goes through most of his arc after the whole prison thing, when he pretty much hates Nina as a person rather than because she's Grisha, so his efforts to work through his prejudice are much more natural and don't feel like he's doing it for reward points. My point is, I think this issue will work itself out as we get to the later seasons of the show (if they get greenlit that is)
Thankfully I think a season 2 is very likely. This show is doing great on ratings and popularity and rivals Bridgerton for weeks on the top ten list. There's even speculation they might approve between 4 and 5 seasons overall.
I agree that might better our understanding of the character's thoughts and Matthias' redemption in the later season(s) :)
I like how they changed alina's character from a more passive protagonist to a more active protagonist. she had more agency in the story that made her feel more like she's actually part of the story instead of just an accessory to it.
(minor spoilers for the books?)
examples:
-alina choosing to go in the fold. in the books she and mal were already set to go into the fold so by changing it to where she makes that choice for herself to be with mal, it makes her discovering her powers feel like her choices mattered leading up to it.
-alina's scar. idk i just like this change because in the books, she got it while holding a ceramic shard too tight cause she broke a teapot when she saw mal arriving from a trip when they were kids???? like that just seems so weak as a character bit and them changing it to her choosing to cut herself to hide her powers makes it feel more connected to the plot and to mal as a whole and makes her choice to remove it feel more emotional
-idk there's probably more but those were the two that stood out to me
I agree they gave her more agency but in my opinion going into the fold willingly cheapens how terrifying and built up it was in the books and makes her look stupid/irresponsible choosing to go in and forcing all her friends and coworkers to go with her was selfish. Her selfishness isn't acknowledged to focus on the growth from that to Martyr, nor how naive she was as we miss a lot of her internal dialogue and all the great snark and wit that comes with it. I was personally a bit diappointed as someone who liked shaddow and bone and npt
I really liked the beginning of matthias and nina’s interactions with the hatred and the we need to work together to survive but from the ‘i like you’ moment i was like it’s not earned yet, it’s so not earned yet and their relationship deserved better
It seemed like the show needed to have their "I like you" moment to make Matthias's eventual hatred more potent. I wish they would've had the confidence to just keep it flirty-platonic and build the romance in the later seasons, especially because the "enemies to lovers" arc will just be repeated.
I liked their earlier interactions, when he kept going below decks to talk to her out of curiosity; that showed that he was having inklings of doubt and wanted information. But they kept yanking that back, like with the "lewd woman" comments.
Matthias's actor also wasn't extraordinary. He could've inserted some nuance in his expressions to show more of an internal struggle, or that he was starting not to fully believe the rote statements coming out of his mouth, but that emotional undercurrent wasn't there.
I feel like that it being too soon was part of the point of the storyline, they formed this close bond through survival that very quickly crumbled upon contact with reality. I was never sold on the romance either, but i was invested enough to feel the sting when the potential for a relationship and ideological change was wiped out. They skated right up to the line of a romance, before being burned. Matthias was kind of on the precipice of actually making progress in terms of de-radicalization, but backslid very quickly when the situation went south and their respective allegiances came back into the picture. The tragedy aspect was delivered on.
I think the show's biggest problem in dealing with their relationship is the pass of time, we never know how long they've been traveling together. In the books is made clear it was 3 weeks, they had other scenes together and the "I like you" scene was in their last days (ig). But the dialogue in the scene was straight out of the book, I'll give them that
My feelings exactly
I think part of Alina's racism issues could be resolved in future seasons with the help of other characters. I've seen a lot online that many POC's main issues (I'm white myself, so I can't weigh on it properly) is that it's just continually hit as a bad thing and even Alina seems to see it as a negative. Alina is ashamed of her Shu heritage--and with the way she's been raised and the Ravkan sentiment on Shu Han, that makes sense story wise. What I hope to see is them introduce Toyla and Tamar, who are also Shu but raised in Shu Han, and use them as people who show Alina that her heritage isn't something to be ashamed of or to see as negative. In the books, while the twins are against the Shu government in many ways, neither are ashamed of their Shu heritage and wear it with pride. I think especially Toyla, who is such a softie and so introspective and knows all of his countries stories and poems by heart could be the person who sits her down and shows her all the good in the country and its people. Tamar could show her how valued women are in Shu culture and that's something to be proud of too. Even Inej with her Suli background that she still values so deeply or Jesper and his memories of a quiet life on a Zemini farm. I hope the writers listen to the criticism because I think it's something that could be easily and beautifully handled with a few short scenes with other characters and could become really a really empowering part of the story
I don’t remember her ever being ashamed of her heritage in the show. Like when she was getting her makeover from Genya she asked them not to change her eyes. When does she act ashamed?
@@Casin yeah, i don't think she was ashamed necessarily. she more likely had the inherent fear that she was an outsider and would never fit in. which, i felt, was pretty realisitic.
there is a really interesting struggle for Zoya and her heritage in king of scars/rule of wolves. I hope they do something similar for Alina in the show
Something interesting is the scene where she mentions her mother is Shu, but she’s been raised in Ravkan and even serves in the Ravkan military.
It does bring up a point about assimilation vs. acculturation which is a familiar experience for any immigrant family. Both sides of my parents side chose assimilation when they first came because they didn’t want my parents to be bullied at school for having an accent. For my generation, there’s an awkward divide between those who speak/understand their parents language and those who don’t. Due to the whole identity pride, it’s become more alienating for those whose family assimilated vs. those who kept some level of acculturation. (From a Filipino-American perspective)
I’m interested though to see how they approach it. I’m ok with being proud of your heritage. My view: who you are is as much as where your living, where you will continue to live, and how the impact of your heritage helps you and others move forward in life creating a new culture. I’ve been to the Philippines, grew up eating Filipino food, can understand the aunties with their heavy accent, know some words - but I was born in America and raised with American experiences. The truth, my Filipino heritage is overall irrelevant to helping me with life here.
I think that the confrontation in E7 between Alina and the Darkling is a perfect example of what the show is doing right with regards to the Darkling as a villain:
"You put this collar on me to exploit my power for your gain...We could have had this. All of it. You could've made me your equal. Instead you made me this. You don't care who suffers as long as you win."
He is sympathetic in the way that we can understand why he is hurting and why that caused him to act. His trauma *explains* his actions, but he is still responsible for them. He chose to harm, he chose to manipulate, he chose to reach for power. For him, it's not even a "means justifies the end," even though at several points he tries to sell characters on that fact.
He could have let Alina work with him as an equal if his goal was to save/protect the Grisha. But he actively didn't want an equal. All of it is excuses and justifications for selfish, entitled behavior and choices.
He doesn't want to save the Grisha by any means necessary. He wants to use these particular means and was looking for an excuse to use them. It's a poignant villanry that we see all the time in real life.
The Darkling isn't evil. He's selfish and entitled and emotionally stunted and has refused every opportunity to work on dealing with his trauma. He's hundreds of years old and yet has never once tried to grow as a person or heal. It's tragic and pathetic, but also awful to everyone beacuse such an awful man has a lot of power in addition to all this.
I really wish they gave more time to Nina and Matthias, it felt like they forgot about them and just decided to throw their story into the last episode. I was hoping that they could do to Matthias what they did to Mal, I’m really hoping they do better in the second season.
I think it's pretty telling that the two actors haven't been included in any of the promo stuff for the show??
I liked what WithCindy said in her video that it might've been better if they did Shadow and Bone one season and Six of Crows in another season
Great video! I’m glad that you talk about how smart it was to combine the two series. The Crows provided a sort of comic relief and a faster-paced action story. It’s a great way to bring a different energy to the show. If it was just Alina’s story I think it would run the risk of being too cliche YA, but because there was the other story going on I never was bothered by the cliche.
I also think Jessie Mei Li brought a lot to Alina as a character, she mentioned in interviews that the director let her adjust scenes to make Alina feel less bratty. And her and Ben Barnes made adjustments to the kissing scene to make sure there was explicit consent and that Alina had more agency in the scene. She did a phenomenal job with the character and made Alina really believable and likeable. (But also I was just super excited to see a non-white lead in a YA fantasy series).
I do think one of the reasons they made Alina half Shu was because Alina’s storyline was set up to be about her identity. She is asked “What are you?” by the Darkling (and I think by other characters), and in the first few episodes we keep hearing other people say “what” she is (she’s Shu, she’s Ravkan, she’s a cartographer, she’s a saint). And I think the show added the race element as a way to emphasize that question of identity. I do think they didn’t quite hit that theme as strongly as maybe they wanted though. It seems like after Alina settled at the palace the writing kind of forgot about the identity theme for a couple episodes.
I also think that with Matthias storyline they are on really thin ice but I actually think they avoided many tropes that made it feel like: "Your reward is a girlfriend."
Because both Matthias and Nina were given scenes where they could actively decide against or for the relationship. For Nina it was when the ship sunk. Where she actievly decided the save his life. Sure, from a story point of view she could not have survived without him, but she could also have said: "I do not want to survived with the man who wants to kill me. I am better try to survive on my own and die as a free person:"
And for Matthias it was the moment where he does not let Nina drop into the ice
I also do not think that by the end he has overcome his prejudges. I think he not even started working against the prejudges he still have. I think he only - maybe only for a moment - tries to live an illusion. A world where only his happiness matters. He just pushes everything down, instead of working through it. That is also why he recats so extrem when Nina gets him intp prison. Because in fact he never moved away from his hatred. Just for a short moment he pretended it didn't exists
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SIX OF CROWS
.
.
.
Yes, this is exactly what I thought too. In the books, the flashbacks felt very similar to the scenes in the show and he gets thrown back into reality when Nina gets him into prison. He only starts to actively work against his prejudices once they're in Fjerda again and even then it's very slow and he doesn't manage to work them out completely in the end. I'm really curious how they manage to implement his inner monologue during Six Of Crows and Crooked Kingdom because he corrects himself a lot in his thoughts and works through a lot of it in his head, trying to make sense of what he has learned in Fjerda and the stuff he learned and experienced later on. But we'll see.
@@rebeccayasmine.5904 I also really hope we will see how he slowly works though his prejudge and tries to be a better more open minded person
was anyone else hypnotised by Rowan's earrings?
YES .... I would dearly love to know where these came from
I've got to say that saying bc it's a fantasy show and therefore is escapist and seeing racism portrayed is jarring is for me not a valid argument bc every movie/show/book no matter its genre is saying something about our present, and usually racism IS portrayed in these works only through metaphor or symbols (grisha being persecuted is one of them but muggles being hunted by death eaters is another example), and I think it's important to openly address racism instead of talking about it through metaphor bc it forces the audience to acknowledge their own prejudices/biases/violence against others and for me saying is jarring is refusing to engage with the work
I haven’t read any of the books, so I didn’t know that Alina was originally white! As someone who is Asian American and mixed race, I was so excited to see a character who I could so closely identify with in ways I haven’t been able to before! Alina is visibility “different” from those in Ravka, yet doesn’t have a strong connection to her Shu Han heritage (like when she first meets the King and Queen she says she doesn’t speak Shu). I understand the sentiment that some of the racism towards Alina hits close to real life, I was shocked the first time someone called her a rice eater. But I think it’s super important acknowledge and create a conversation about the very real racism Asians face, even if the vehicle is a fantasy setting. The YA genre is oversaturated with white leads, so I am overjoyed to see more diversity. I really hope it’s something they get to explore more in future seasons!
Leigh DIDN'T explicitly describe Alina's ethnicity in the books and we only ever know that she was born in Dva Stolba in the Shu-Ravkan borderland. Her parents are also dead.
@@MrJordwalk Ah, fair enough. Unfortunately, white tends to be seen as the default in literature, lots of people assume that a character is white unless they're explicitly described otherwise. But regardless of Leigh's intention, I am glad that the show made the decision to write her explicitly as Shu and allow for more Asian representation on screen.
everytime i see a YA love triangle, I scream 'JUST BE POLY' in my head. I never had to do that in Shadow and Bone
One book that did do that and did it fantastically was Iron Widow, I enjoyed it thoroughly
Also I have never understood the enjoyment of a love triangle. I WAY more enjoy two people breaking up and having a good or interesting relationship with one another when they are either both or one of them dating someone and the other still working on themselves. We’re here for character growth. That or let’s bring out a poly relationship hell yeaaaaah
Yeah, I suffered the Throne of Glass triangles, but I was actually surprised with how the relationships ended up working out. It felt more realistic too for the protagonist to not just like, find their soulmate in the first chapter, or have two toxic people fighting for her, it's understandable to go through multiple relationships before finding "the one"
@@Kirayni that’s the Sarah j mass ones yeah? I honesty have stayed the fuck away from fantasy YA since hunger games because the formula just made me want to cry with boredom. Plus finding gay characters that don’t die just like. Nah. Now I am
Hopeful as thing start to change. I took up serial podcasts like Alice isn’t dead and time:bombs and have been having such a good time. Also critical role and the adventure zone balance (series 1) all gay, fun and not filled with tropes that make you tired and want to scream. Also no ‘I’m not like other girls’ moments
@@FrancisFabricates ye, I watch CR too! Those books are not perfect, but that particular growth was... refreshing at the time. And the fact that they still remained friends. I’m currently reading less, mostly Brandon Sanderson, so I have not been touching too much the can of worms that sometimes YA books can become D: I still like them tho oops
Yeah a poly relationship on screen would be amazing!!
@@FrancisFabricates Gay characters dying is far more common in adult fantasy than it is YA. The YA sphere has made a massive push for diversity in the last few years. One of the most hyped YA releases of last year was about a Latino gay trans boy written by a nonbinary author. That's Cemetery Boys by Aiden Thomas, if you were curious. I think you really have a wrong idea of what YA is in your head. It's not the same as it was in the early 2010s.
i absoloutley agree with the matthias/nina storyline, when i was watching the show it very much felt like something was missing, only now do i realise it's matthias' internal struggle
Something that I thought was interesting was that Jesper seems to know at least a little of Kazs backstory involving Pekka Rollins. It’s only hinted at twice but I think it will be cool to see play out if I’m right and not thinking to much into it lol
I was so confused by that - it seems kind of out of character for Kaz to have said something, but also I get it as a dramatic device in the show to build tension because it shows the audience Kaz is hiding something from us/Inej in regards to Rollins, I guess?
i remember me and my friend reading six of crows a few years ago and barely talking about anything else for weeks! it's so surreal to see so many people i look up to talking about it now 😅😅
it is literally all i want to talk about too tbh
The other thing that happens (irl) with people who have one person in their life that they like but is someone they're taught to hate from early years is they get the mindset of "but YOU are one of the good ones" instead of actually examining the whole basis of why they were taught to hate at all. It's a way to appease the cognitive dissonance in a way that's not actually very constructive.
When I was teaching in Japan I was told by a 3-year old "My dad says all foreigners are bad... but _you're_ ok though." So yes, you're absolutely right.
From what I remember from the books, Matthias goes through this thought process of "maybe Nina is not so bad, but grishas are still bad" to "oh, shit I was wrong, grishas deserve better". I hope we get to see this in the series too.
As a asian who has encountered racism, I LOVE that Alina is half asian. Her encountering racism actually made me even feel MORE for her and I clearly understood that the reason for all the racism is because they have a conflict with an asian country and i found that very interesting. I just now learned she was white and wow, that would have been SO boring. A beautiful white girl who feels like an outsider? That's so over done.
I didn't know the story of Shadow and Bone before watching this (in fact I think I only realised there was an entire trilogy before Six of Crows while I was reading Crooked Kingdom), so I didn't know it would be so tropey in terms of chosen ones, prince/general romances, that sort of stuff. What I love about the show though is that Alina's story and the Crows' story are both so different, almost as if they belonged to different stories, and you get the best of both
Completely agreed with the Matthias storyline point. Couldn’t invest in the whole ‘hot and cold’ thing and I wasn’t sold on the romantic appeal.
This was one of the few things I was disappointed in and I like bedsprings as a trope and sometimes even enemies-to-lovers - it has such potential when done well. But this was really meh. (Edit: not bedsprings, bed-sharing)
I found it to be really gross and off-putting. The rest of the series was absolutely brilliant though.
[spoilers] yess it was so annoying, I haven't read the book so idk if he's cooler there, but what I saw was him being just sexist and prejudiced (not to mention the whole people in chains thing), and he also looks super basic and I can't even remember his face too well. The first "cute laughing" moment they had was when he was talking about how women should stay at home and are weak? And he was laughing because he found it hilarious that a woman (or Nina in this case) could be stronger than him? The fact that she laughed with him at him belittling women was a bit cringy and out of character imo :( It's sad to see such a cool woman as Nina being ready to sacrifice her whole life to escape with some guy who's only character traits are sexism, prejudice and being a bit dumb, considering that she has known him for like a week? And yes he saved her from falling into the ice cave but her powers gave him warmth and honestly who would like to be left alone in a snow desert? I really like Nina so the Matthias thing really spoiled her character story for me :( sorry for the rant I had to get it off my chest lol
It is better explained in the books, their story in the series felt a bit shoe-horned in and quite rushed. Like Rowan said, you read about his inner struggle and he is actively working on overcoming his prejudices. I think he also benefits from the parts of the plot taking place in Fjerda and featuring the truly shitty person who played a big part in Matthias' upbringing. Still his were always some of my least favorite chapters because of his bigotry.
I don't care much for the Grisha trilogy but Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom are my favorite YA novels, so what can you do? xD
i don't disagree 👀
Love this breakdown!
Rowan's voice after reading Crooked Kingdom, same, very hard same
there were multiple videos to friend group chats of me sobbing tbh
with this video my two worlds are colliding and i couldn't be happier
YESS! I also think Nina and Matthias relationship was done better in the books!
A lot of the dialogue was nearly identical, and I think the actors are brilliant, but I agree. It didn’t feel like it had a place in the series yet
To be fair. What they show in this first season is shown in flashbacks...we see them actually fall in love in Six of Crows
In that case I'm super excited to read Six of Crows, they already had my favorite romance in the show, some episodes I was on the edge of my seat waiting for their story to come up
I was excited that Leigh was aware of her shortcomings as a writer in the first series and the ways she insisted they fix things in the nf adaptation.
I'd just like to mention that while there isnt racism in the Shadow and Bone books, there is mention and acts of racism in the Six of Crows and the King of Scars books
Thank you for putting a finger on why this show is one of the few I can stand to watch: it's very similar to how I read fiction aka two books at once, it helps break the tension / stress of each plot line to the point where we can empathise and understand without having to have our guts twisting for 20 minutes in one go.
I agree a lot with what you say about Matthias - though as a Norwegian I'm also extremely tired of the 'violent northern barbarian hunting people' trope in media right now so that cold have clouded my impression of him
I mean the Vikings did do a lot of bad things, including slave trade, so it's not like it came from nowhere
@@mme.veronica735 the Vikings as we know them today were no worse than their contempoarary counterparts. Sure, a they did participate in the slave trade, but us modern folk must keep in mind they were far from the most powerful players on the board. Not to mention that they only capitalized on the already flourishing slave trade around the mediterranean. The myth only lives because we have literally no primary sources from Viking Age Scandinavia or Iceland (the codex regius is 13th century at best) so our sources are from the places the Vikings invaded or raided (ie very biased)
Also - no matter what the Vikings did 1000 years ago, the 'violent northern barbarian' trope still deserves to die
I can certainly see how that could get tiresome and at this point the trope has just been codified from the crapload of media (especially fantasy) that continues to be made so I can't see it dying anytime soon. That being said in the Grishaverse the Fjerdans have a whole European witch trials situation going on, which was certainly not exclusive to northern Europe so it seems the viking trope and witch trial trope has been mashed together in this case.
@@hurricaneofcats Yeah that's kind of what irks me to be completely honest
The love triangle definitely felt very dated. It's only redeeming quality is that the Darkling is enough of narcissistic asshole that you read the whole thing as abuse and manipulation and not real romance, and feel really relieved when Alina also starts to see it for what it is.
Also, as someone who watched the show without reading the book, and liked the Kaz and crew storyline the most, the fact that they've combined two series into one explained a lot!
SO glad to see someone else with the same criticisms on Nina and Matthias’s portrayal as I have. Not only were they rushed, but they glossed over to their respective loyalties to Ravka and Fjerda. It was so important to both their characters, *especially* Nina-she says explicitly in SOC that she put the safety of Ravka first, and she would do it again. Because it was so lightly touched on, the show audience is going to think their decisions as individuals are only tied to one another and not their countries. Also, ⚠️CROOKED KINGDOM SPOILERS⚠️ I agree that Matthias’s redemption arc was weak in the duology. That’s why I think it was so important for him to die. It wouldn’t have been satisfying for him to finally /decide/ at the end of CK that, hey, maybe Grisha aren’t evil. But his death made a narratively satisfying tragedy. With the track he’s on in the show right now, his arc won’t carry that same weight. Overall, though, I’m willing to look past it when I rate the show holistically, because I loved it so much and am DESPERATE for a season 2.
Nina and Matthias have the weakest story line on the show (have not read the books so I can't say for sure there). But I still liked their story line. I see it as a great example of someone coming from cult coming out of the cult by making friends with the enemy. Their version of this story is different then I have seen done in other places. Matthias seems to be someone who just needed to get away from his group and be shown some genuine affection to break free. It is just lucky for him the person who shows him that affection is someone he is attracted too and is attracted back. This does happen in real life Megan Phelps-Roper is a good example of this. Unfortunately at the end of the season his cult programming is back up but that happens too
I would LOVE to see more of these short, off-the-cuff style videos!
I read the books. And I loved the Malyen and Alina dynamic. I felt for him in the second. It's hard loving someone and knowing u can't be with them. And his realization was towards the end. It just took him a while, and dealing with not feeling that u belong is awful. I felt that Alina felt that distancing from him and when asked he was truthful to her. And I don't think he meant to guilt her.... He is just so frank which I loved. Anybody in that situation would be jealous of a prince.
"2 foxes in the garden" - a very cute ending for a wonderful video. Love your take on the show, gave me an opportunity to redigest my viewing and really consider the vital differences between read and viewed media. The diverse casting, the reworking of the love triangle to be less manipulative and possesive, and the subtle and wonderful acting choices really made this show for me. I'm a huge fan of Matthias and his character arc in the books, but you brought to light something that I'd never really considered, and which helps explain my slight disapointment specifically with Nina and Matthias's time on screen. It really is a bit awkward and uncomfortable that we don't get to see Matthias' inner monologue, and we're just seeing a bigot try to relearn his worldview so that he can win a girlfriend at the end. I'm really hoping we get to see a more complex and less uncomfortable redemption from Matthias in season two (crossing my fingers that we get there)!
This is almost an entirely separate issue from this series in specific, but I wanted to see if anyone felt the same. Hollywood has a history of casting mixed-race actors to represent minorities like Jesper and Mal (whose heritage is unsaid? But is ambiguously not-white). I think because Jessie is mixed it’s a wonderful choice to add that into the story. But it’s really frustrating as a POC to feel like the only type of representation that’s popular or celebrated is POC “diluted” by whiteness. You see colourism everywhere and it’s so complicated! Because mixed-race people often don’t get accurate representation either (in terms of feeling not belonging to either group and feeling marginalized that way etc.) but they often DO get jobs but those jobs are to represent “all black people” or “all Chinese” people. And it’s just a sad side note that I can’t help but thinking about whenever I see all of these shows being celebrated for diversity or representation.
Although if there are more Shu characters within the story, I REALLY hope they cast fully-Chinese actors to play them. Is that bad to say? I don’t mean to be exclusionary - but it feels like the erasure of what my culture and my people ACTUALLY look like and replacing it with a curated white-washed image of who and what they want Chinese people to be. Particularly if they’re marginalized; it’s not that there wouldn’t be mixed-race characters but practically there shouldn’t be a lot of them representing the whole of the population that we as an audience see.
I'm not sure how i feel abt Jesper, but Mal was deliberately written as mixed-raced in the show because the creators wanted Mal and Alina to bond over their sense of being mixed and not belonging.
I think Jesper was explicitly mixed race in the book rather than full Zemeni (Black) so his mixed race casting makes sense, but I definitely agree that colorism is definitely a thing and more darker skinned POC should have a place in media. S&B is kinda remarkable for how many POC there is in it as a piece of Western fantasy media (both frustrating and hopeful) , but I definitely agree that mixed race people shouldn't be the only ones getting opportunities. I really do hope that they cast fully Asian characters for Tolya and Tamar (two prominent Shu characters from book 2 of the series) and continue to include POC in the broader cast going forwards.
Yeah Jesper is biracial in the books, no idea about Mal though
maybe its because i never read the books so i only have a very general idea of what to compare it to, but nina and matthias were honestly one of my favorite parts of the show. their chemistry was SO GOOD and it felt like sort of a little break/respite from everything else going on in the rest of the series. I always found myself grinning like a crazy person after their scenes (maybe just bcs I now have a massive crush on danielle galligan but-)
So much this! I especially love your insights on foreshadowing and giving characters more agency...
(And yes, the Matthias character arc was a bit too syncopated when translated to completely get what's going on internally.)
I love these type of videos from you, when I finished the series and knew you had watched it too I wanted to pick your brains about it because I wanted your take on it so I was so excited when you posted on twitter about doing a video like this. Thank you and please continue with these types of videos along with your regular content. Much love peace.
I totally agree!! I didn't read the books, so I didn't knew the story, and the hole kidnapper to lover thing really made me uncomfortable, the way she just seems to forgive him so easily and she's the one teasing him to like her was kind of a nonsense. I think it would be really better if they kept her angry at him, and him slowly learning to respect her, regreting profoundly, being sorry and looking for her forgiveness before any love storyline, they should build a friendship based on respect. This was the only story line that felt a little off to me.
I highly agree with your comments on the Nina and Matthias plot line. Like in the books when Nina is captured she challenges him and orders him to bring them water because they are human beings, and Matthias acts like he won't but then he does, and that for me felt much more like Nina is one of the first people who has challenged him on his views and he looked around at all of them in the cage and felt empathy and then he acted on it despite his better judgement. Like cause he is only 18 and I think it's been a couple years of him being a drüskelle but maybe every Grisha he has captured has like been too scared to say anything or just like screamed profanities rather than challenging him like Nina does. And then she actually used that water to help her un cuff herself and some other Grisha which Matthias finds out when the ship has been demolished and just yeah their backstory has like a lot more beef between them and they begrudgingly help each other survive because they need to, which ends up organically leading to a weird friendship/crush. I do wish it had been more friendship orientated in both the books and the show as it is really was just Matthias thinking she's fit plays into the reason he likes her. Like what if Nina was ugly? Guess she would have just died RIP.
I been WAITING for this one! TURN IT UP
I love your section about the show giving Alina more agency because that's something I also noticed and really appreciated, and I think it's highlighted even in the first episode where she makes the choice to go into the Fold with Mal because she doesn't want him to face that alone.
Alina facing racism while the other characters of color doesn't does kinda make sense in the context of the grishaverse tho. Ravka have been at war with Shu Han for a long time and we see anti shu propaganda at a couple of points in the series. The racism is probably mostly caused by that and is very ingrained in people by the time the series starts.
And while Ravka have been at war with Fjerda too there isn't as much, if any, racial difference between Ravkans and Fjerdans so there wouldn't make any sense to focus on apperence to mock them. They mostly seem to focus on mocking the Fjerdan culture rather then the people themselves.
On the other hand, the Suli (Inej and Zoya) come from Ravka so ravkans would be used to seeing them and Novyi Zem (Jesper) is on the other side of an ocean so they wouldn't have much conflict with Ravka. The Zemeni are also very important for trade so Ravka wouldn't want to piss them off.
And of course they amp it all up for the series to make a statement but it's not unsurprising for this to happen considering the politics of the grishaverse.
I flipping love her earrings
it's amazing to be able to hear my faves talking about a series that means so much to me. thank you.
Between this and Jupiter’s Legacy, I can’t decide which likely-to-be-cancelled-netflix-book-adaptation I should commit to!
Netflix poured money into S&B marketing so I'm really hoping it won't be cancelled, it doesn't seem like it, especially since it did pretty well in viewership
I am watching Jupiter right now. S&B won’t get cancelled it’s HUGE
Out of the two I'm feeling like Jupiter's Legacy is much more likely to be cancelled
@@toria7242 I am trying to watch it atm and I am finding it SO hard to get through. Had the same issue with Irregulars. Neither has the spark that shadow and Bone have and Jupiter has the boys and invincible up against it that from what I have seen are much better. Shadow and Bone has been called ‘Netflix’s GOTs’ which while I say fuck that because GOTs was gross and terrible, it’s good in the sense of money making. The show also allows for spin offs with the crow crew and has a HUGE established fan base.
@@FrancisFabricates Yes absolutely! Shadow and Bone has a much bigger fanbase for sure and seems to be the best investment. Yeah, I haven't started it yet, but I've mainly seen people say Jupiter's Legacy takes it's time.
I think that it was a really good decision to combine the six of crows with shadow and bone because I can see how it might have lagged a bit like JL without it
There's that quote from the book that Mal says to Alina about the Darkling, "I love every part of you, even the part that loved him" which is actually just way better than the "you don't need to explain anything." Mal's jealousy was mostly in book 2 so he was a pretty good love interest in book 1, even if he was less likeable because of being written from only Alina's perspective and mostly absent from the first part of the book.
Book 2 *spoilers* I gave Mal waay more credit when I realised Mal wasn't so much jealous as A. worried about power seeking rather than say, trying to see if the fold can be destroyed, and his misgivings are foreshadowing for what the third amplifier turns out to be B. experiencing a breakup the main character never acknowledged... Like, it actually said that Alina hadn't talked to him privately (or kissed him) in weeks, then apparently more than a month, so apparently he was kind of being ghosted while still being her body guard??
You realise later that other characters, even Zoya, were trying to get her to talk to him and at least tell him where he stood, so that was pretty weird. And everyone else knew he was fighting Grisha each night, and apparently coming in with bruises every morning, so it was pretty obvious.
He was pissed at Nickolai, because N did come out with I don't respect your relationship at all convo. I'm poly and would still respond to that as contempt, rather than thinking it was about possessiveness.
You also see in the books that Alina has been missing Mal's devotion to her all along, in the first chapter she thinks he's not interested, but what he actually says is it's always you & me, while in her dialogue she jokes about sleeping with a nice corporalnik, so yeah, the multiple pov works waaay better than the single povs in the books.
I hope the New Percy Jackson series kind of do something like that where they can pay lip service to the other books within that universe especially because I want to Magnus Chase adaptation really bad. But if I'm not mistaken I do know that the crane Chronicles is getting a different company to make it that outpatient so I guess they would have to be left out anyways which kind of sucks CV
Rowan delivering as always 🤍🤍
I think it'll be interesting to see if and how matthias changes and unlearns. What I really want is Nina and Matthias falling out to eventually lead to him unlearning those awful things and growing on his own accord. In a way that doesn't feel tied to Nina, as you said
FINALLY someone else who hates the nina mettaias storyline in the show. like nina is legitimately one of my favourite characters in the books but here i just hate them and they steal away from the main goal. like it would have been better for them to be in season two or three where they are supposed to be. they just feel odd here.
As someone who hasn't read the books, it was definitely the weakest part of the show for me. Just seemed kind of forced and pointless (for now at least) and I think that time could've been used better expanding the "training" section as I felt the Kirigan reveal and Mal/Alina reunion ended up feeling slightly rushed. Seems like swapping it out would've been a win/win, but I suppose if it's there to lay groundwork for future seasons it might end up being better in retrospect.
As a non-book reader (I only read S&B) I agree, it felt really rushed and the dialogue was really corny. I liked the chemistry between them but I didn't like how they executed the story. Maybe if the season had two more eposides it could've worked better.
Yes, the Nina & Matthias storyline was irritating to me (and way too tropy). I haven't read the books so I can't say if I would like that version better. Edit: In the end, when he accuses her of manipulating him, I was just so done with Matthias.
As someone who read the books, a lot of Mathias's strength as a character is to explore cult behavior. The druskelle are really, really fucked up and in fjerdan, kids are groomed from a young age to join.
To make a very long story short, Matthias not only has been under EXTREME conditions his entire life, but he has actively been lied to all his life by the hypocrites he calls leaders (and he is somehow aware of the fact they are hypocrites, he just doesn't want to admit it). The man has trust issues.
He was also taught, before anything else to hate all grisha, to see them as manipulative monsters hiding as humans, so Nina "betraying" him is confirmation for him that there are no "good ones". At this point in the story, it's very likely he has never felt any genuine affection. Ever. Also, yes, he is very slightly stupid (and extremely stubborn). The book deals a lot better with that plotline, and you can also get some hindsight bin his internal monologue, which doesn't hurt either.
I was scrolling on tumblr while listening to this and just as you were talking about Kaz's touch aversion I came across a gifset of all the instances in the show where they show it! The internet gods have smiled upon me today or something haha
The show is fine although it does have a few flaws. It's not as terrible as other adaptations. I do like the actor for Jesper but what I really loved about Jesper in the book is that he was dark skinned and was bi and flirty and just ya know, not seen as just a "tough, super straight, he was in a gang" type dark skinned black character, personality wise. Ya know, I wanted another Moonlight type dark skinned guy. So them making Jesper in the show light skinned was kinda upsetting but again I do really like the actor. Also I'm sorry but Kaz definitely should've looked different, I like that actor too but he had dark black hair and just idk, he didn't look as intimidating as I wanted him to look. But overall it's a good adaptation all things considering.
ahh six of crows is my favourite series, but i haven't read shadow and bone and i was scared to watch the show because i have been consistently let down by ya adaptations but now i feel like i gotta watch it
“I’m on to King of Scars” Good luck, you’ll need it.
and let's not talk about Rule of Wolves lol...
@@fannfannmsb Tears
Omg I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the hints they dropped about Jesper being Grisha! I've watched a few different reviews/reaction vids, but yours is the only one who noticed that or at least mentioned that you caught that. I agree with you about Nina and Matthias. At the least, I think they should have saved the romantic development a little longer because that bit did feel ridiculous for how little time they had onscreen.
I absolutely loved what they did with the necklace! It was absolutely terrifying.
I didn't realize just how excited I was for this video till I saw the notification and screamed 😃😃
You should definitely do more of these off the cuff videos alongside your structured essays. I love your content!
I watched the show in two days (and went in not expecting to like it tbh) and the next day I was on the phone with the librarian, asking her to order the books for me. Really a surprisingly good show :)
I mean, there were definitely things that annoyed me. I'm interested to see if these things were carried over from the books or if they were changes made for the show.
Hell ye! I'd love more casual videos were you chat about stuff you watched! Love your usual video essay too but this was really interesting as well
I love your blue and yellow color scheme and the mushrooms!
I watched this with my mother and she really enjoyed your analysis. I've not read the books and it was really interesting to me too!
I enjoyed the show. I read the original trilogy after the duology and I'm glad I did, because I'm not sure I would have picked it up if I read the trilogy first. On the whole I think the show does a lot better than the trilogy but yeah, it's not perfect. The Alina-Mal relationship was a complete drag for me in the books. Still not the biggest fan of that aspect, but it works better at least.
Can't wait for Tamar and Wylan to show up.
It had its flaws for sure (cough cough BROWN FACE cough cough) but this is definitely one of the best book to series adaptations in recent memory
Keeping my fingers crossed for Percy Jackson 👀👀👀
And a white stunt for Alina...
Where was the brown face? Not saying it wasn’t that I just didn’t know it happened so I would love to know thank you. (I’m mega autistic so I don’t mean to sound rude but sometimes I do. I very much want to know politely)
@@FrancisFabricates omg noo you're not rude❤️ you probably don't know it. They casted a white stunt for Amita aka Inej and they literally painted her face to brown. They literally could've found a poc stunt so easily😐
@@harperandrea4462 yeah that’s not a good at all 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
@@harperandrea4462 and thank you, dealing with an Internet full of Karen’s even when I explain tirelessly I’m not being rude I get told off like I’m 5 and it’s very tiring when I am just asking because being informed is important to me.
The whole jealousy thing is also why i hated "Mortal Instruments" so much but loved "Shadowhunters" deeply
In Shadowhunters we also have scenes where Simon and Jace bitch at eachother because of Clary but she is never dragged into it, in a way that
they try to manipulated her or try to make her feel bad about her attraction
And eventually Simon and Jace become friends
but in the book it is just 400 pages of Simon being a possessive jealous asshole. It was so annyoning to read that i never picked up another TMI book.
And I am glad Shadow and Bone took the samr road :)
Woah I'm so early... last time I was this early I thought I was straight :/
Yess amazing, been having so much fun watching this show. Love that you’re covering it
I like this style of commentary on stories, it's fun. So this got long but I wrote thoughts on points in the video 😅
I haven't gone looking for other reviews yet but I'll check out Asian perspectives too see how others articulate what they felt about Alina's storyline - in my case I feel like I slipped into the world much smoother *because* of the racist abuse, maybe because it's familiar to me (being mixed race Asian). But I can totally understand that it's divisive, and it'd be jarring for others. I'm still internally organising why I *did* feel discomfort but nonetheless brushed it away while watching - it could be that it's just habit, from real life. I do prefer that they addressed in-universe racism on some level, rather than 'colour-blind casting' and then totally dismissing that identity, to a tone-deaf result (like "Bridgerton" and "Irregulars").
Ignoring ('blind casting') ≠ acceptance / understanding.
The show's politics and nations felt really grounded, and the civil war plotline probably helped in that. The Fjerdans are a people I'd like to see more of in s2, I don't know the books so my impression of them is narrowed down to the word of the characters. But I would so so love to see Fjerdan women speak their mind. Matthias has got to be full of shit, he's an unreliable point of reference for the entirety of his culture. Him and Nina surviving together was intriguing since he started to re-evaluate his prejudices, but I hated the romance angle… literal power imbalance + romancing the slaver had me squicked out.
The Darkling definitely felt sympathetic all the way through to the flashback, then his iconic line, and I remember consciously pulling back from the immersion to look at how the show did that. Immersive to the point they I feel like the shipping could get ugly, like another we've of K*lo/Rey shipping.
Ben Barnes's acting was really fun to watch, to see the Darkling dial up the humanity and trap Alina in this situation with lots of manipulation. And Alina stabbing him in the hand was s o satisfying
i hadn’t read the books before i watched the series, and after i finished i read them all. this show has done so well in really drawing its audience in and making them want more.
great video ! please continue making some about books / adaptations that are new :)
heeeey rowan!
edit:
i can’t believe i was here 1st wow.
also i’m so excited to watch this now & kinda wanna get the audiobooks
Would suggest six of crows is great
@@FrancisFabricates thanks! it’s definitely one that i’ve been recommended a bunch so i will check it out
I watched the show and agree with the whole take on the YA love triangle. I actually switched off on the whole Shadow and Bone elements. I ended up watching the whole series just because of the Crow elements. I'd like just a series dedicated to that side of the show.
I’ve gotta say Matthias was my least favourite character in the book but I thought his character was much better in the show. Maybe it was because the actor was beautiful tho...I thought their romance might come off a /little/ rushed if you hadn’t read the book but either way it was great to watch.
i just watched the show and omg i never tought that there are two series in the same universe tied together its amazing i cant wait for a new season
As a Russian I am outraged with the show. This show proves that Netflix can create Slavic atmosphere when they want - costumes, architecture, interiors etc are done surprisingly well. Also the racial diversity is connected to the plot and makes perfect sense in the context of the universe. Why didn't The Witcher receive the same treatment?
I have not read the books, and I haven't even gotten very far in this video. But I'm glad it's clear that you're happy with it from the get-go. I skimmed some reviews online before beginning it and they were really lukewarm at best, and I just didn't feel that way at all upon completing it. I'm eager for season 2!
I love watching your videos, they are amazing. You deserve way more subs than you have. I would love to hear you talking about Todd Chavez from BoJack horseman at some point.
Something I really disliked that I don't see anyone talking about is how they changed the darkling's backstory?
In the books, he's betrayed by his love interest who tries to KILL HIM to get his bones as amplifiers. I believe the fold comes later. To me, this made a lot of sense, especially regarding his lack of trust in Alina. I also think it made Bahgra more sympathetic because the lessons she ends up teaching are directly applicable (don't trust others, the only thing that matters is power etc).
Whereas in the TV show, it ends up feeling very... Watered down? Cliché and much less relevant.
Thanks for a great video! Agree with all, and some things you mentioned I hadn't thought of, or wasn't aware I was thinking it until you put it in words lol. Yes please more of this kind.
Learned about the show because my oomf on Twitter was complaining about racism being a part of the story and said it "ruined the escapism". I hate how people like him don't take other people's experiences into account.
I don't know what you are talking about. There is no movie adaptation of Eragon. It does not exit.
I wasn't entirely convinced by Kaz's changes in his character, but when you started saying that they could have made a scene kind of exposing who Kaz instead of just hinting it with Freddy's performance, that sounded like something that they definitely could have done and I hate it. Now I am appreciating Kaz's arc and performance a lot more.
Thank you for this (seemingly spoiler-light?) review. I heard some buzz about Shadow and Bone but I didn't have any specific reasons to watch it. You, however, have now sold me on it, and I intend to give it a try. :)
does anyone else not like who they cast as pekka rollins
yeeees it's here
(also now i need to know your thoughts about rule of wolves when you read it)
I really enjoyed this style of off the cuff video!
i read the grishaverse books back in 2017, and the fact that i could not remember whether the west ravkan separatism/general zlatan subplot came from the books really speaks to how successfully they were able to build this world on screen and how well they understood the material they were adapting (...or maybe it speaks to the state of my memory, but that's a different issue)
Also yes would love more videos like this, obviously if/when you're able to!
Knife Wife for Life.
Also, I hope Alina gets to experience life in places that don't give a crap about her Shu heritage in next season. From the synopses of the other books, the plots don't excite me. It would be way more interesting to get some new direction. Have the Crows help Nina get Matthias out of prison in season 2, but scrap the Ice Court business. Too similar to the expedition across the Fold. Give them some other thing to do. Maybe actually go to Novyi Zem. Alina and Mal could be in hiding there as well.