The Producer Behind Michael Jackson's "Bad" Album
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2024
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The Producer Behind Michael Jackson's "Bad" Album
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The story behind the making of Michael Jackson's Bad album from the early tracks developed with John Barnes, Bill Bottrell, Matt Forger to the recordings at Westlake with Quincy Jones and his team.
The MJCast 089: John Barnes Special
• The MJCast 089: John B...
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Sources:
The MJCast
Man in the Music: The Creative Life and Work of Michael Jackson by Joseph Vogel
images.google.com
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John Barnes was also the first person working on "We Are The World", and wrote a significant part of it with Michael, but he wasn't credited. He was told by Quincy that his name wasn't famous enough for him to be featured on the song.
@rar223 John Barnes said it in his MJcast episode. He also mentioned that Michael gave him a signed vinyl record of the song with the words "To the man who played the song for the first time"
If y’all really wanna get mad, listen to the Greg Phillingaines Questlove Supreme episode where he talks about how he had his name taken off as a producer on Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
@@DruDilly not producer, it was the credit as a co-writer... because he wrote the breakdown in the middle of the song. first he was offered 10"% but later Michael changed his mind and considered it more of an arrangement matter instead of songwriting
@@andreasbonkowski exactly
@@DruDillyoh, really? THAT BASTARD
Michael Jackson is hilarious he told Marlon I know you didn’t write this song 🤣
The B-Team are the unsung heroes in helping Michael make the BAD album. It's disappointing that Quincy could not leave his Ego at the door and work together with them.
I think the decision to have Quincy Jones produce the whole album was a conscious one, to give the album a consistent feel. As much as I love Dangerous and History, you can tell and hear that there were different producers working alongside Michael.
@@jackson-ch Yeah, but Michael had more creative freedom with his later albums. I'm say is that Quincy could've worked with the B-Team but his Ego wouldn't allow it, which is why Michael stopped working with Quincy.
@@mechajay3358 Yes, I think so too - and it was also worth Michael starting a new musical chapter without Quincy.
Thousand different things where involved into those Projects. I don’t think that Quincy’s Ego had something to do with it. I’m sure all his decisions where made at the right Point of time. „Music first“ as Bruce always said ✨
It was contractual. Allegedly he wanted to be done with Quincy jones after thriller. He thought ET would count but it didn’t
John Barnes, Bill Bottrell, Bill Wolfer and Brad Boxer have said several times that they helped Michael express himself musically by following his ideas or the melodies, rhythms, arrangements and bass lines that MJ sang or hummed to them. MJ composed the music and they played following his ideas. They have been credited as co-writers of several songs when they do contribute to the composition of the music, but if MJ receives all the credit it is because he wrote the songs with his melodies and lyrics using his voice as an instrument. Team B was tasked with bringing MJ's ideas and vision to life. It all started in her head. The public ignores MJ's work as a songwriter and producer, ignores the work of John Barnes and company, and thinks Quincy Jones did it all.
Composed 😅😅😅😅 oh man ..MJ was no composer
@@jonylawson73You don't have to compose to be considered a producer. It was all still his idea. They just laid it down. That's it
@@jonylawson73 actually he was a composer. This is evident by his demo tapes where he hummed and sang the parts of many of the songs. Brad Buxer would say he was a composer, and Brad is a talent himself.
To bad Mike didn’t do it all himself. Then there would be no question. I would have loved to see him play the piano, but I never did.
Liberian girl. He's still eating off those samples from that one and will continue too. Timeless beat
Sound like Michael was already drifting away from Quincy long before it was official.
yep
I was John's engineer/mixer on most of his record productions and film scores for nearly four decades. Your account is entirely accurate. Michael bought John a half-a-million-dollar Synclavier and they disappeared to the Havenhurst home, with Bill, for a year and a half. John was a musical savant. Thank you for acknowledging his contribution.
shoutout to John Barnes !!!!
Great footballer
He is prominently featured in Spike Lee’s brilliant ‘Bad 25’ documentary. Moving and insightful commentary.
To me, during Michael Jackson's bad tour, this was peak Michael. It was Michael at his best. ❤
To me, it's Dangerous Era
No it’s thriller
BAD era. Best look, best sound, best image, best time ❤
Wow this story is incredible. Very sad that someone can just be rewritten out of history. Glad this story is out, John Deserves his Flowers.
I met John Barnes many years ago. I didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to thank him for his contribution to music. Billy Griffin, The Miracles, Madagascar, Dee Dee Bridgewater and many more. He was so humble, a beautiful man/artist. He seemed to be like many others, robbed of their shine and flowers but I'm so happy that this episode pays tribute to him.
I always wanted to know the truth behind what happened between Michael & Quincy. Seems like Quincy was on a power trip & wanted to control all aspects of the process of making the album. The songs that Quincy didn’t like ended up becoming Michael’s biggest hits!!!
💯
@@JSII-lg1pn that's not true... Quincy who is still alive in an interview said he turned Michael down when asked to produce. Quincy said it took nearly five years to produce off the wall album And he didn't have five years to work with one atrist
Michael Jackson told Quincy Jones to take the strings off of "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough"...
Quincy Jones is a damn genius and he and his team took Michael's music to the next level.
Compare "One Day in Your Life" to "Off the Wall". Quincy was a veteran, he worked with Ray Charles, Sinatra, Aretha Franklin. He knew how to arrange, how to do scores, which players to pick for which songs et cetera et cetera.
To me, Michael's records never sounded as good after Quincy left. They're still amazing records but that's especially because of the songwriting and performances, tbe production is very dated to the 90s and early 2000s.
As much as people hold animosity towards Quincy Jones he was a key ingredient to Michael's career.
@@robbiedubbelman3024I agree that the albums produced by Quincy are especially great and the sound is just a whole other level. But- Black or White, Heal the world, They don't care about us and Earth Song aren't dated at all in my opinion and are very important songs in Michaels discography especially internationally! And the other way around: I think Quincy also took a lot from working with those great people :)
@@arogers-zh3nlTotal exaggeration on his part. Not the first time Quincy tell a tall tail.
Bad album incredible album amazing songs
Looking back, it's really interesting to see how Michael Jackson took more and more creative control and gathered great talents like John Barnes or Bill Bottrell around him.
Quincy Jones was a genius, and I think he did a great job on the Bad album too, and it sounds more timeless than some of the demos from the Hayvenhurst sessions. Bad would probably have turned out like Dangerous if Michael hadn't had a three-album contract with Quincy, so in the end it was clear to Michael that Quincy would produce the whole album. That was probably also an artistic decision. Michael likely saw the sense in this and therefore wanted to keep the contract.
Since Michael was a kid he was assigned handlers to control him. Those handlers were paid huge amounts to stop and keep him from being free personally and creatively.
Thats pretty shady, how Barnes dose not get proper credit for the Bad album, that's widely considered one of Quincys best work. If this is true its disgusting really.
😂🤣! Quincy Jones did the Wiz with Michael and Off the Wall and Thriller. And yes other people contributed to these projects and they got credit on the albums credits back in the day. But make no mistake! Quincy Jones is the man who made these albums the Greatest albums of all time. And that's just facts!
@@robertepps2834 Bad is better than both those albums by a long way. And Barnes gets almost no credit for writing on it.
@@robertepps2834 It really was a team effort. If it weren't for MJ's work in songwriting, co-production, her arranging, Bruce Swedien's work in mixing and recording, the musicians and other people, those albums wouldn't be as good. Quincy Jones, without the support of others, would not have been able to obtain those three great albums alone. You have to be fair and give each person the credit they deserve.
@@robertj.batista You are out of your mind. Quincy Jones have worked with all of the Greats before Michael and he skyrocketed their careers beyond where they were. Put in or type in The many Lives of Q. Watch that video. You will see how much this man has contributed to the world of music. None of those other people you name don't even come close to what Quincy Jones has done. Watch that video and tell me what you think.
@@robertj.batista And another thing Michael was a he and not a she!
0:45 dang Michael was like naaahhhh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 as a music producer … this video is a gem 💎
Pretty sure John Barnes was involved in Captain EO as well. The man could write some amazing music on his own.
They should release the original versions
I agree!!! I would purchase it!!
Some of them are on UA-cam, they aren't as full as the reproduced ones.
I was gonna say, Quincy was a helluva producer, he mightve improved on originals
@@tysonb3568100%
Quincy even directed genius Miles Davis.
MJ didn’t have the knowledge Quincy had.
I totally agree
Thank you for this. John Barnes was one of my best friend's for nearly 30 years. Rest in peace, John. ♥️♥️
The funny thing is another part of me is my favorite song on the album.
the way another part of me (and we are here to save the world) are my favourite songs from that era 😭
this man mike a GOD of music
Despite not being an actual musician 😅😅😅 ooookay I like your logic ..hey I'm an world class golfer despite being unable to play golf
QJ is Hollywood if you know you know
You mean Hollyweird? 🤣🤣🤣
Hence BAD was supposed to be a double LP. They should have did one A Team and one B team. I hope one day we getvto hear all these tracks. This video was very interesting, need more of this. Mees an official Documentary
John Barnes also played for Liverpool. A very talented guy indeed
Thank you Mr Barnes! May your gifted talent take you Far on your future endeavors!God Bless You!
👍😀
Thanks for this great content Great job
WOW! Never knew about any of this! Amazing insights.
This is a tremendous education!!! Thanks for the history. It makes sense now when looking back on the change in direction between "Bad" and MJ's previous work.
Thank you Quincy a shout out especially for you!
Bill and Matt Thank you So very very much for your expertise in the industry.
👍
Amazing documentary thank you!!!! Seeing how they were already making MJ dirty sadden me......QJ's couldn't go past his ego......it all makes sense now, I never really felt his touch on the Bad album....his music mastery was obvious on Off the Wall and Thriller.....reminded me a lot of that 80's sound on the classic The Dude......but its obvious to the ears that on Bad, MJ had moved on from that organic groove and was sonically already in the FUTURE! Quincy's name was just there for credit, music business politics and the check......Come to think of it, either Sony or MJ got the last laugh because I remember an interview where QJ was complaining about not getting paid his right dues for his work with MJ....
Damn. I have been a massive fan for over 20 years and I will admit that I never knew this. Thanks for sharing, this is insane.
Rip Michael Jackson
I see my Stevie wonder again ❤❤❤ isn’t he lovely? Well that song he did with Michael Jackson on the Bad album I absolutely loved I always play it& it’s one of my favorite top songs on that album❤❤❤❤
I’ll always remember him for that goal at the Maracana.
Alright Now from the Bad sessions ended up on Ralph Tresvant’s solo debut album
It’s very difficult for me to imagine what’s going on in their studio. But I would really like to get there.❤
finally some info i could use
Thank you sieda Garrett!
😀
I would love to hear all of the complete versions of the Hayvenhurst sessions. Seems like they might have sounded better in their original style. Because that's always something, which made me neither love or dislike all those tracks because I loved the idea behind it and I love every demo on Bad 25 but the "complete" versions by Quincy aren't that punchy at all.. Of course those songs are bangers but if you listen to them really closely you can hear a difference between other tracks by Mj and those ones. Another part of me for example was the first track of the Bad album because I could hear that it was Michael's work but however didn't like the production at some points.
All in all I'd say that they should've released the Hayvenhurst tracks on the album instead of Quincy's work. I mean I love Man in the Mirror but come on Michael's original tracks might surely have sounded better..
Right, bad25 songs like "Free", "Fly Away" or "Price of Fame" sound great. If Quincy wasn't producing "Bad", it could've been a triple album with all those great songs not being cut off
@@mjjvault indeed. and you name my favourites - plus I`m So Blue.
That BAD 25 was not hitting it for me what’s so ever them tracks to me are weak. It wasn’t high energetic, edgy etc. Them tracks that Michael wanted like Tomboy, Buffalo Bill, Bad company, Turning me off, should of ended up on there. They cheated the fans big time with that. He made some powerful songs during the Bad era that never seen the light of the day.
The horn section in Another Part Of me really enhanced the track. Smooth Criminal also has some Quincy polish. Maybe the originality was some one lost but that may be for the better cause Bad is his most dated album because of the instrumentation
Is this John Barnes from Madagascar?????
Madagascar band, Rainbow, Billy Griffin on back vocals...
I didn't know about this group, but I checked and yes that's him.
Great video, and I learned somethings I never knew, such as Quincy’s friction with MJ’s original team of musicians. As far as Another Part of Me, the only thing that remained from the original recording are the vocals. The rest of the music was recreated. Listen to the original Captain EO Version and then compare it with the BAD Version. Its more than just the horns
From what I read it stayed almost the same, maybe what was in captain eo was the early version of the song and they worked on it more at hayvenhurst
Oh I see, thanks!!
Where can I find the article that talks about recording “Another Part of Me”? It’s one of my favorite MJ songs
Original vocals? I am pretty sure they were also re-recorded with Bruce Swedien.
@@Gabrielle4870listen to the Caption EO Version of Another Part of Me, and then compare it with the BAD Album Version. The vocals are exactly the same, only re-arranged at parts and remixed with lower volume and with different (reverb and delay) effects
Very interesting
With no proof whatsoever, before this video as a kid, I came to the conclusion that Quincy Jones did not fully produce the Bad album from the ground up. It's such a departure from his musical style I figured it was to please the label to say it was another Thriller with the dream team of Michael and Q making the album once again.
I have a theory that Quincy would've made Bad sound even more classic and timeless, simply because right now it sounds very 80s and urban with those gated snares on every song. Quincy would've preferred timeless drums, like on Off The Wall and Thriller. But he still did his thing, and left his signature on the overall sound of the album.
This is good information. I’ve always felt sad about MJ and Quincy Jones dissolving their working relationship and ultimately friendship, so it’s nice to know the why behind it. I’m sure Michael probably blamed Quincy for not winning any Grammys for Bad after watching this. Now I see why it took 4 years (per Quincy’s words) to make Bad. He fails to ever mention that he was blocking the progress. I would have thought E.T soundtrack would have been the third project as well. Those had to have been a tense working environment. Thanks for posting.
I can’t wait til this is covered in the movie. I’ve always been curious about the bad era. It always sounded unaligned to me. Like there was a disconnect and too any contradicting energies in the sound.
John Barnes is only credited as a Synth player on the tracks he co-produced with Michael smh
I hear what everyone is saying about Quincy Jones, but let's not forget that the "Quincy Jones version of BAD" if you want to call it this way is an absolute masterpiece 👍
indeed. i absolutlely see the potential in the Hayvenhurst team. But at the end Bad sounded GREAT and Quincy Jones did nothing wrong. (okay, maybe the decision with the Stevie Wonder Duett, what he aknowledges by himself.)
Most of the songs worked by Michael with B team (Another part of me, Dirty Diana, Leave me alone, Liberian girl, Smooth criminal, the others I forgot) were simply re-recorded by Quincy and Sweeden. Matt Forger, one of the engineers of team-B and John Barnes said this).
@@duncanidaho8900 I wouldn't call that "simply re-recorded", they were recorded a bit differently by Quincy's team of top musicians, engineered a bit differently by Bruce Swedien, and produced a bit differently by Quincy & Michael.
Have you heard those demos off Bad 25? I mean they packed quite a punch and were structurally complex in some sections. I’d like to hear more of those demos from 60 that have been recorded.
The more i hear of all these behind the scenes stories, it sounds more and more like Quincy was to music what Don King was to boxing. I grew up respecting the two names not knowing how shady they really were in real time. Pitiful!
And this is why The Bad Album is MJ best album plus it also explains why he had some many number 1 hits from this album
He had number one hits because he released more singles. Every single from Thriller was a hit too
@@kievonJSmoothSoul what the hell you talking about he released the same amount of singles he did with thriller smh….I hate when people comment on stuff they don’t know nothing about. MJ released 7 singles off the Thriller album and only two went number 1 and MJ also released 7 singles from The Bad Album and 5 of them went number 1
@@frederickifill3107 my BAD
@@kievonJSmoothSoul 😂😂😂….My Bad I get it lol 😂….it’s cool 😎
I'm sure the record label had all reasons to let Quincy do what he's doing best, being a producer, which means being the VP of project management and taking decisions to give the label ROI in the end.
That's crazy! So Quincy Jones basically hijacked the recording session of BAD and was credited for work he never even put into it. 😮
Plus the older Quincy gets the looser his lips get and you can tell there was a power struggle going on.
Heavy
It's weird hearing Michael talk about Buffalo Bill so strongly. To my knowledge the song has never been released. I don't think I've even heard a genuine demo for it anywhere.
Rod Temperton made jackson with the off the wall album then thriller. He wrote rock with you ,thriller etc.
Ohh good
Well with all that was happening michael sure did handle business with a smile on his face, and told no body. Plus i didnt know quincy was responsible for bad's sound
These must be where we got alot of the outtakes from like throwing your life away etc
Please The Way You Make Me Feel Background vocals 😢
soo … can we hear the havenhurst bad album demos? is there a bootleg out there?? would cool to compare. 🎉
Now it can be told….
7:37-7:38 For a split second, I saw little michael
It is kinda common thing that essential workers are not mentioned and are out of spot. I wonder how we can change this situation…🤔
It’s the music industry
B team and Mike fell out with Quincy cuz he got lil to credit for production he he created
That's messed up. This just made me side eye Quincy
Oh, my god!! This is the first video in almost 2 years that unvieled information that I DIDN'T know. Every other one was lies or something I've know since 2012.
Name of the background music??!
5:47 Where to find that picture in high quality?
Hey MJJ Vault, what's the background music ???
I don’t ever see you guys mentioning Bernard Terry. He mixed down and mastered almost everything from Off the Wall to Dangerous. He also dicovered Ready for the World (Melvin Riley sounded like Michael to him). He recently passed away.
Where the demos??.
Mike.
Yo
❤❤😊😊❤❤😊😊❤❤😊😊❤❤😊😊❤❤😊😊❤❤
That’s low character on the part of Quincy Jones. I understand there were millions of dollars at stake, and that he had Michael under contract, but you don’t take other people’s work and not credit them. That’s wrong.
Michael wasn't exactly fighting for these guys either. It was more so about his own creative control.
He was such a handsome guy! I don’t know why he ruined his face!
Are the Hayvenhurst versions available to listen to anywhere?
There is some available online like smooth criminal. You can also listen to some of the tracks that were left out of bad on Bad25 album. I think pretty much all of them are hayvenhurst versions. Also Do you know where your children are (original version) from Xscape album.
@@mjjvault thanks
Not surprised. Quincy didn’t play/write a single thing on “Bad”. He just hired musicians for the sessions
I think John Barnes and the rest of the teams work was extremely felt on the Bad Album and they did great work with Michael. However, in my opinion I think it was a misunderstanding of roles. Contractually, Quincy Jones is the producer of the album with Michael co producing. The producer job is to oversee the recording. A producer doesn’t have to write, a songwriter does that but can a producer write? Sure he or she can but that doesn’t mean they have to. John Barnes and the team started working on the Bad album and on their side i can see why they feel credit as producers however that didn’t change the fact at the end of the road it stopped with Quincy has the producer. Michael called them to help not Quincy and I think that’s where the confusion lied on who was doing the record. John Barnes and the team is only doing what Michael is telling them he paid for them to work out of his studio. Did Michael tell them they were producing this album? I don’t know but I think all the work they were doing they felt like it was their baby and I can understand. But that’s not business cause Michael working with them again had nothing to do with Quincy. When Quincy started touching those songs he made his calls going forward regarding everything even though they were already prepared to a point by The B Team and QJ made adjustments. Now they feel a way but again who is contracted as the producer, Quincy is no matter how much involved they were they are not the producers period that’s business. But don’t make it seem like they didn’t get credit they got rhythm, strings, synthesizer arrangement credit and musician credit on the album you can read those credits and you know the role they played. Rather if you want say it or not, Quincy involvement with Bad even if he wasn’t involve from the initial demos is still felt. Man in the Mirror by itself like the video said is literally the best decision made as a producer.
i’m baaaaaad🥸
How bad??
@@AngelA-zz8ph not as bad as michael but baaaad 😉
i dont want to say it but i dont like men in the mirror that much ... xD
You have to have some balls to walk away from Quincy Jones
...and long legs. Run fast!
Well it's extremely clear now why their professional relationship ended with Bad. Sad that's how business was handled.
So basically they were robbed
To me the bad album is great
But it really sounds like a mid 80’s record compared to a record that was released in the later part of the decade.
The songs are timeless but the production isn’t which makes it hard for me not to view it as an 80’s record
I don't know about all of that. You know we shouldn't rewrite history just to make something interesting or try to take credit from some people and give it to others who may not have been as prominent on this project as this video is suggesting. What we do know is is that Quincy and Michael did the Wiz together! Off the Wall and Thriller! So why would Michael Jackson second guess Quincy after all of that success? That doesn't make any sense to me. So again I say don't make things up! Just keep it Real. Michael Jackson is the Greatest Entertainer of all Time and Quincy Jones is the Greatest Music producer of all Time.
Nothing's made up here. It's all based on interviews with people that worked on the album. Quincy did produce on this album by re recording Hayvenhurst demos, and bringing great musicians to add some parts like strings or songwriters to contribute songs. He did the same with Off the Wall and Thriller, only on Bad he had less creative control because Michael brought him basically finished songs.
@@mjjvault Okay name these people and direct me to these interviews. I would like to hear them say that Quincy Jones isn't all of that because he stole their work and the credit that they deserve. Guide me to these videos.
The link to the interview with John Barnes is in the description. It's also based on the book Man In The Music by Joe Vogel who interviewed several of these people. And they didn't say Quincy is not all that, because that's not true. Quincy's role in Michael's albums was arranging, making decisions, getting the right people together to write or play on these songs etc.
It is clear that you are not taking the facts well. That is fine. Eventually, when you mature, you can accept the truth.
@@belindauo O no I'm taking the facts very well! 😂🤣! And I have been taking the facts very well for years! I think it is you who has a problem with accepting facts! Not me! 😆😅😂🤣!
I'm learning so much about MJ ..I never knew he barely wrote any songs , also amazed to hear he didn't write thriller or play one single instrument at all ..
He had some fantastic producers and songwriters and musicians behind him
He could dance tho..I guess he was the blueprint for JT ,Britney and teen pop
He did write a lot of songs, did you watch the video?
Lies. You sound like a bitter Prince fan. It is clear you didn’t watch the video. Sorry but Quincy Jones is overrated.
Kinda funny that that Janet Jackson song was the song that inspired Michael to call John up because that song is a very clear Prince ripoff lmao.
Sounded nothing like Prince.
@@claystevenson1821 "Dont Stand Another Chance" is literally a 1999 ripoff. Get a new set of ears.
@@WaitingForTheHookI just listened to it right now and it definitely sounds 1999 😭
Liberian girl is kinda mid lol. Streetwalker should’ve easily replaced LG or another part of me
Fake, not him
it was nothim. It was Rod Temperton
Fake. It was Q,Jones,Rod Temperton