This quote is from Menno Simons. Which shows baptism does not save us like is represented here. This quote is from his teaching on Baptism and its meaning. Thanks for the presentation you gave. Here is the quote. "Though these words of Peter are very plain, the learned are not ashamed to force them into a very different signification, by means of their plausible comments and their much boasted reason (probably that they may retain the favor of the world, and live in opulence without cross or affliction), and teach, that baptism is a sign of grace; which according to my limited understanding, can in no wise be established. Our sign of grace is Christ Jesus alone, through whom God's abundant love is freely dispensed and declared unto us. By signs he was gloriously prefigured to the ancient patriarchs, as by the coats of skin to Adam and Eve; by the rainbow to Noah, by circumcision to Abraham, by which sign they were assured of the divine covenant. But we are assured of God, of his divine grace, and his eternal peace, by this one sign only, which is Christ Jesus. The seal in our consciences is the Holy Ghost, but baptism is a sign of obedience, commanded of Christ, by which we testify, when we receive it; that we believe the word of the Lord, that we are sorry for, and repent of our former life and conduct; that we desire to rise with Christ unto a new life; and that we believe in the forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ. Not, my beloved, that we believe in the remission of sins through baptism; by no means; because by baptism we cannot obtain faith and repentance, neither do we receive the forgiveness of sins, nor peace, nor liberty of conscience, but we testify thereby that we have repented, received pardon and faith in Christ, as before said. With the fathers it was not thus, for they, through the signs, received assurance and comfort that the promise would be true and sure. We have this assurance in Christ Jesus alone, in whom all the figurative signs were completed; so that we have in this only true sign, Christ, that which the fathers had in many figurative signs. In short, had we forgiveness of sins and peace of conscience, through outward ceremonies, and elements, then the REALITY would be superceded, and his merits made of no effect."
***LIFE SAVING INFO*** WATER BAPTISM IN HIS NAME Water baptism was administered in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST; for this was the name given to our Savior before His birth for the purpose of “saving men from their sins” (St. Matt. 1:21); for there is salvation in “none other name” (Acts 4:12) whereby we must be saved. The Apostles always administered baptism in His NAME from the day of Pentecost forward. There is no biblical record of one person ever being baptized as believers are today apart from Acts 2:38. No one was ever baptized, using the formula “in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST All true believers received the gift of the Holy Ghost, as promised by our Lord, as a witness to the scripturally-based faith in Jesus (St. John 7:37-39) We further believe that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost “marked a new era” in the Spirit’s dealing with mankind as Prophesied by Joel (2:28, 29) and Isa. 28:11), the Holy Ghost being the “gift” of every believer in this age of grace, both handmaidens, servants, sons and daughters. The Holy Ghost bears witness that “we are the children of God” (Rom. 8:16); it is witness to the faith of our hearts (Acts 15:7-9). The Holy Ghost does NOT indwell the believer simply because he says, “I believe”, as many evangelicals teach. Apostle Paul shows that the Holy Ghost comes after believing (Eph. 1:13), NOT synonymous with it. As said before, the Holy Spirit is “the seal of the righteousness of the faith” which the believer has (Rom. 4:11) as circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith of Abraham. All scriptures are from the KJV Bible
I believe it is possible to go to heaven, if one has repented, and believed, but did not understand/did not have the opportunity to be baptized, but I definitely have a high view of baptism. It took me a long time to get here, but I absolutely believe that it is spiritual birth, John 3:5, Titus 3:5. It is circumcision, Colossians 2-11:12. It is death barrel and resurrection with the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 6-3:6. It is coming into Christ, Galatians 3:27, end it has saving actuality, one Peter 3:21. These passages are really difficult to get around and it is amazing what gymnastics people do to get around this. I do believe that one can go to heaven apart from baptism under certain circumstances and I base that on Romans four versus 11 and following and also scriptures like act 10-404:48, but I do not give anyone an out who would want to refuse water baptism, Mark 16:16, act 2:38, 22:16. The one I probably have is that I believe that the name of the Lord Jesus Christ should be invoked, whatever else is said. I believe this because of the act narratives as well as the teachings of the apostles. I do not believe this contradicts Matthew 828:19 because it is one name in Greek. A great book on the subject is by David Pawson, entitled, “the normal Christian birth. “I would highly recommend it.
If you want to use the analogy of the new birth for water baptism then you also need to be consistent with believing in eternal security. You can’t undo your first birth therefore the perfect analogy is that the second birth can’t be undone either.
First, the new birth is not a physical event, but a spiritual one. It involves a change in our relationship with God, not a change in our nature or essence. We are still human beings, with free will and moral responsibility. We are not transformed into a different kind of creature that cannot sin or rebel against God. Second, the new birth is not an irreversible event, but a conditional one. It depends on our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. If we lose our faith, we lose our salvation. This is what the Scripture teaches in many places, such as John 15:1-6; Romans 11:17-22; Galatians 5:4; Hebrews 3:12-14; 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Revelation 2:4-5; 3:5. Third, the new birth is not a guarantee of perseverance, but a call to perseverance. It does not mean that we will automatically and inevitably remain faithful to God until the end. It means that we have been given a new life and a new hope that we must nurture and protect by God’s grace and power. We must abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, and endure hardship as good soldiers of Christ.
@@Holestic_Honesty even more human reasoning and taking scripture out of context. Eternal life starts at regeneration and continues forever. Otherwise it’s not eternal.
@@Holestic_Honesty so according to your theology you can go back from the new man into the old man which is now dead. Hmm. Pretty crazy theology. Do you also do mouth to mouth to resuscitate him before leaving the new man for the old?
Paul never taught water baptism. His one baptism is clearly A SPIRITUAL baptism. For by ONE SPIRIT are we baptized into ONE BODY. Paul discontinued baptism as he received further revelation from Christ. He stated that Christ send him NOT to baptize but to preach the gospel less the cross of Christ be come of no effect. Saying water baptism is necessary means Paul’s converts wouldn’t have been saved. That’s just ridiculous to assert otherwise.
I disagree with your interpretation of Paul’s teaching and practice. Let me explain why. First, it is not true that Paul never taught water baptism. He himself was baptized in water by Ananias after his conversion on the road to Damascus (Acts 22:16). He also baptized some of his converts, such as Lydia and her household (Acts 16:15), the Philippian jailer and his household (Acts 16:33), Crispus and Gaius (1 Corinthians 1:14), and the disciples of John the Baptist in Ephesus (Acts 19:1-7). He also recognized the validity of the water baptism of other believers, such as Apollos (Acts 18:24-28) and the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1:13-17). Second, it is not true that Paul’s one baptism is a spiritual baptism by the Holy Spirit. He does teach that we are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13), but this does not exclude water baptism. Rather, it explains the spiritual reality that water baptism signifies and seals. Water baptism is an outward sign of our inward union with Christ and his church by the Holy Spirit. It is a visible expression of our faith in Christ and our participation in his death and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4; Colossians 2:12). Third, it is not true that Paul discontinued baptism as he received further revelation from Christ. He did say that Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17), but this does not mean that he stopped baptizing or that he considered baptism unimportant. It means that he did not make baptism a matter of personal pride or party loyalty, as some of the Corinthians were doing. He also did not want to give the impression that baptism was a human work that contributed to our salvation, apart from faith in Christ. He wanted to emphasize that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16).
@@Holestic_Honesty I never said or taught that you can’t or shouldn’t baptize with water. However it IS a work of righteousness. Jesus said that that’s why he was baptized. Water baptism has no salvation significance whatsoever.
@@Holestic_Honesty read it. “But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.” Matthew 3:14-15 KJV
This quote is from Menno Simons. Which shows baptism does not save us like is represented here. This quote is from his teaching on Baptism and its meaning. Thanks for the presentation you gave. Here is the quote. "Though these words of Peter are very plain, the learned are not ashamed to force them into a very different signification, by means of their plausible comments and their much boasted reason (probably that they may retain the favor of the world, and live in opulence without cross or affliction), and teach, that baptism is a sign of grace; which according to my limited understanding, can in no wise be established. Our sign of grace is Christ Jesus alone, through whom God's abundant love is freely dispensed and declared unto us. By signs he was gloriously prefigured to the ancient patriarchs, as by the coats of skin to Adam and Eve; by the rainbow to Noah, by circumcision to Abraham, by which sign they were assured of the divine covenant. But we are assured of God, of his divine grace, and his eternal peace, by this one sign only, which is Christ Jesus. The seal in our consciences is the Holy Ghost, but baptism is a sign of obedience, commanded of Christ, by which we testify, when we receive it; that we believe the word of the Lord, that we are sorry for, and repent of our former life and conduct; that we desire to rise with Christ unto a new life; and that we believe in the forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ. Not, my beloved, that we believe in the remission of sins through baptism; by no means; because by baptism we cannot obtain faith and repentance, neither do we receive the forgiveness of sins, nor peace, nor liberty of conscience, but we testify thereby that we have repented, received pardon and faith in Christ, as before said. With the fathers it was not thus, for they, through the signs, received assurance and comfort that the promise would be true and sure. We have this assurance in Christ Jesus alone, in whom all the figurative signs were completed; so that we have in this only true sign, Christ, that which the fathers had in many figurative signs. In short, had we forgiveness of sins and peace of conscience, through outward ceremonies, and elements, then the REALITY would be superceded, and his merits made of no effect."
***LIFE SAVING INFO***
WATER BAPTISM IN HIS NAME
Water baptism was administered in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST; for this was the name given to our Savior before His birth for the purpose of “saving men from
their sins” (St. Matt. 1:21); for there is salvation in “none other name” (Acts 4:12) whereby we must be saved. The Apostles always administered baptism in His NAME from the day of Pentecost forward. There is no biblical record of one person ever being baptized as believers are today apart from Acts 2:38.
No one was ever baptized, using the formula “in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST
All true believers received the gift of the Holy Ghost, as promised by our Lord, as a witness to the scripturally-based faith in Jesus (St. John 7:37-39)
We further believe that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost “marked a new era” in the Spirit’s dealing with mankind as Prophesied by Joel (2:28, 29) and Isa. 28:11), the Holy Ghost being the “gift” of every believer in this age of grace, both handmaidens, servants, sons and daughters. The Holy Ghost bears witness that “we are the children of God” (Rom. 8:16); it is witness to the faith of our hearts (Acts 15:7-9). The Holy Ghost does NOT indwell the believer simply because he says, “I believe”, as many evangelicals teach.
Apostle Paul shows that the Holy Ghost comes after believing (Eph. 1:13), NOT synonymous with it. As said before, the Holy Spirit is “the seal of the righteousness of the faith” which the believer has (Rom. 4:11) as circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith of Abraham.
All scriptures are from the KJV Bible
I believe it is possible to go to heaven, if one has repented, and believed, but did not understand/did not have the opportunity to be baptized, but I definitely have a high view of baptism. It took me a long time to get here, but I absolutely believe that it is spiritual birth, John 3:5, Titus 3:5. It is circumcision, Colossians 2-11:12. It is death barrel and resurrection with the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 6-3:6. It is coming into Christ, Galatians 3:27, end it has saving actuality, one Peter 3:21. These passages are really difficult to get around and it is amazing what gymnastics people do to get around this. I do believe that one can go to heaven apart from baptism under certain circumstances and I base that on Romans four versus 11 and following and also scriptures like act 10-404:48, but I do not give anyone an out who would want to refuse water baptism, Mark 16:16, act 2:38, 22:16. The one I probably have is that I believe that the name of the Lord Jesus Christ should be invoked, whatever else is said. I believe this because of the act narratives as well as the teachings of the apostles. I do not believe this contradicts Matthew 828:19 because it is one name in Greek. A great book on the subject is by David Pawson, entitled, “the normal Christian birth. “I would highly recommend it.
If you want to use the analogy of the new birth for water baptism then you also need to be consistent with believing in eternal security. You can’t undo your first birth therefore the perfect analogy is that the second birth can’t be undone either.
First, the new birth is not a physical event, but a spiritual one. It involves a change in our relationship with God, not a change in our nature or essence. We are still human beings, with free will and moral responsibility. We are not transformed into a different kind of creature that cannot sin or rebel against God.
Second, the new birth is not an irreversible event, but a conditional one. It depends on our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. If we lose our faith, we lose our salvation. This is what the Scripture teaches in many places, such as John 15:1-6; Romans 11:17-22; Galatians 5:4; Hebrews 3:12-14; 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Revelation 2:4-5; 3:5.
Third, the new birth is not a guarantee of perseverance, but a call to perseverance. It does not mean that we will automatically and inevitably remain faithful to God until the end. It means that we have been given a new life and a new hope that we must nurture and protect by God’s grace and power. We must abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, and endure hardship as good soldiers of Christ.
@@Holestic_Honesty even more human reasoning and taking scripture out of context. Eternal life starts at regeneration and continues forever. Otherwise it’s not eternal.
@@Holestic_Honesty so according to your theology you can go back from the new man into the old man which is now dead. Hmm. Pretty crazy theology. Do you also do mouth to mouth to resuscitate him before leaving the new man for the old?
@@davidchupp4460 human reason here No Scripture.
@@Holestic_Honesty anyone with a brain can see what I’m saying.
Paul never taught water baptism. His one baptism is clearly A SPIRITUAL baptism. For by ONE SPIRIT are we baptized into ONE BODY. Paul discontinued baptism as he received further revelation from Christ. He stated that Christ send him NOT to baptize but to preach the gospel less the cross of Christ be come of no effect. Saying water baptism is necessary means Paul’s converts wouldn’t have been saved. That’s just ridiculous to assert otherwise.
I disagree with your interpretation of Paul’s teaching and practice. Let me explain why.
First, it is not true that Paul never taught water baptism. He himself was baptized in water by Ananias after his conversion on the road to Damascus (Acts 22:16). He also baptized some of his converts, such as Lydia and her household (Acts 16:15), the Philippian jailer and his household (Acts 16:33), Crispus and Gaius (1 Corinthians 1:14), and the disciples of John the Baptist in Ephesus (Acts 19:1-7). He also recognized the validity of the water baptism of other believers, such as Apollos (Acts 18:24-28) and the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1:13-17).
Second, it is not true that Paul’s one baptism is a spiritual baptism by the Holy Spirit. He does teach that we are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13), but this does not exclude water baptism. Rather, it explains the spiritual reality that water baptism signifies and seals. Water baptism is an outward sign of our inward union with Christ and his church by the Holy Spirit. It is a visible expression of our faith in Christ and our participation in his death and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4; Colossians 2:12).
Third, it is not true that Paul discontinued baptism as he received further revelation from Christ. He did say that Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17), but this does not mean that he stopped baptizing or that he considered baptism unimportant. It means that he did not make baptism a matter of personal pride or party loyalty, as some of the Corinthians were doing. He also did not want to give the impression that baptism was a human work that contributed to our salvation, apart from faith in Christ. He wanted to emphasize that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16).
@@Holestic_Honesty human reasoning at its best.
@@Holestic_Honesty I never said or taught that you can’t or shouldn’t baptize with water. However it IS a work of righteousness. Jesus said that that’s why he was baptized. Water baptism has no salvation significance whatsoever.
@@davidchupp4460 when did Jesus say baptism is a work of righteousness and stop using human reason
@@Holestic_Honesty read it. “But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.”
Matthew 3:14-15 KJV