Forgot to mention it while filming but the Morays get a C-. Will update it on the ranking list when the overhaul is finished: crinacle.com/rankings/iems
I feel like at this point, putting "gaming" on a set of headphones, ear buds or anything of the sort just means there decent headphones with more bass then needed, which, hey, I like bass, but there is more to gaming then that.
In my experience, if you want a good set of "gaming" headphones/IEMs, just get a good set of comfortable music headphones/IEMs and a standalone mic if you need/want one. Sound is sound. Don't pay for marketing.
Yeah… but some are better than others specifically for gaming. Hitting specific frequencies is really important for audio intensive shooters, so it is definitely something to consider. Dont pay attention to me tho, i have some cheap truthear c crinacle zeroes, but still miles better than my £160 headset for games
The only real advantage for gaming is to get something v-shaped. Not because treble gives you more spatial clues or anything (realistically, with hundreds of hours in the game, you will get used to both the sounds themselves and how they sound on your head-/earphones so you will easily pick them out anyway), but because deep, thumping bass and accentuated treble make gunshots and explosions sound more impactful, as well as giving engines a more full sound. And of course tastefully v-shaped head-/earphones will also be well suited for music listening.
you forgot the convenience part. this is kinda niche but as a uni student and an esports player, i find myself often resorting to just use the crappy headset at a cybercafe or borrow my friend's headset bcs my moondrop chu doesnt have a mic lol.
I just use a pair of HD 599 and a Razer Seiren (was on sale) and I've never had any issues with audio quality going either direction. Every headset I've bought has always had some sort of deal breaker. Too tight on the head, sound wasn't good, cables would die for no reason, mic sucked, etc.
Considering the only good/decent audio product I can think of from razor is a DAC that was a collaboration with THX. That would probably be a good idea for razor to stick to collaborating with people that know what they're doing.
Imagine the Truthear zero signature with Razer Moray comfort at $80. Razer could easily take over the gaming IEM market with that combo. Razer if you're reading this I know you don't like to listen to your consumers (the Cobra), but listen to Crin and make some magic happen.
I ran through the Hexa, Hola and Zero:Red for multiple hours in CSGO and Quake and found the Hexa with AutoEQ loaded up had insane positional audio capabilities. Found myself tracking opponents through walls easier than my HD6XX somehow. The only downside is the comfort difference but the drivers found in that set are absolutely brilliant with the W1 tips installed.
Could you explain a little more about autoeq? Would it work for the zero red? That’s what I use for PUBG and they have been the best I have ever used. But could I make them better?
Honestly, turning off the music in games leads to a more competitive edge than a lot of IEM's. I play a lo of Dota2, not a game you'd think benefits from improved audio, but ever since I've been playing it without music, you can clearly tell so many interactions apart, that it makes the whole experience better. From a competitive standpoint, no more audio swelling up before specific fights, nothing, you can hear an initiation crystal clear from the fog and keep a track of everything that happens, just by the sound of it.
Since crinacle can't say it, I will. The closest thing to a gaming profile, funny enough, is the harman curve, which makes crinnacle's original zero the best gaming iem.
It's been echoed by many FPS gamers that the Zero is a fantastic IEM. There's been a surge of popularity with IEMs for gamers because of the comfort and light weight, seems like Razer is just trying to ride the "fad" among gamers without making an actual good product.
yep, seems most (if not all) game studios master and design their audio with the classic harman target/curve so it makes sense why the Crin Zero excels at gaming (having the extra driver in crossover is what actually helps it above the other 1DD price competitors that also target the Harman Curve).
Razer are real funny charging $130 for these. A couple years back I picked up a pair of Sound Magic E11 earphones for I think £25-30, and they've been absolutely stellar for both gaming and movies - despite have zero "gaming" or "streamer" branding. They're perfect for when I don't want to wear a bulky pair of headphones but still want a nice listening experience. I even purchased a second pair for my Switch. So for about £60 all in I've got two comfortable pairs of earphones with great audio - half the price of the Morays, which by Crinacle's account have weak sound quality anyway.
people are dumb.... and because people are dumb, we can´t have nice things... have seen beyerdynamics had a pair of inear headphones they were selling for around 20 but when it did not sell they changed the price to 120 and BAAM people start buying.
I def agree on comfort. One of my first iems was the zs3 and I still miss that kind of fit 3 years later lmao Might buy a tkzk ouranos sometime soon simply for the fit lmao
Thanks for the review Crin. I actually enjoyed your analysis of this and found it very informative and food for thought. I expected you to maybe say how bad they are but this was more interesting.
THE BEST GAMING IEM is one which you've gotten used to the sound signature of XD you can argue that boosting specific frequencies can help with isolating footsteps and gunshots but if you're used to the sound signature of your iem/headphone then you're already looking for sounds in those frequencies anyways i've been gaming with several different headphones/iems (hd6xx, ksc75, kato, chu) and i've never had an issue where I couldn't hear the footsteps or gunshots or haven't been able to remember which direction it came from
I like your point of view and how you support your ideas. About the suggested lowering of the price, people nowadays just buy 'gaming' things due to the tag, and even more so with Razer products. Razer never lowers its prices.
When looking at gear to use while gaming there’s really 2 big things to look for. Comfort and Price. If I’m playing FPS: Spatial Audio is then the biggest contributor to “Competitive Advantage.” (Which lets be honest a pair of open backs headphones will be your best option here for comfort and a more “natural” spatial audio experience; not IEMs) If I’m wanting it on console, the boom mic is also wanted for convenience. A super simple concept that is just constantly being missed in the IEM market.
People are realizing IEM's are generally better for gaming, in semi-comp to competitive, but as you said, the lines get blurred between IEM's and Cans if you know what to listen for. But companies see this, and are just smashing lack luster IEM's into the market hoping people buy them only due to the brand name. Why does this bother me? If these are someones introduction to IEM's, they get a horrible first time experience and will probably just go back to their cans and miss out all that IEM's can offer. At the $130 price point these have, there are WAY better options available, most are cheaper too.
For CSGO at LAN events you'll see players with earphones or IEMs under the tournament issued headsets, but they all seem to be pretty bog standard stuff or, as Crin says, sponsor dependent. I recall dev1ce asking for advice a while back about better IEMs - he was trying Shures at the time - and it would appear there is a target market for game tuned IEMS. Whether anybody will delve into data files or to test frequency of noises in certain games and design IEMs around that is perhaps a different matter, particularly if user hardware or set up could affect this in someway.
Yup, I remember also a CSGO pro criticizing the sponsored IEMs, I would really love the data of what IEMs pros prefer, I have the Salnotes zeroes and I play CSGO at a high level but I prefer my cheap headphones over my IEMs ( even though my Zeroes blow my headphones out of the water when it comes to quality it's not even comparable) since they have better stereo imagining since by definition, it's hard to achieve that on an IEM
Actually this IEM has a pretty good special localisation quality. But for me the upper frequency bump was actually very fatiguing. To the point that I had to mute some games in the menus because it was bombarding me with high frequency effects. In the end I couldn't stand it and had to sell it unfortunately because the localisation of sounds and enemies was nice. But imo they are also a bit too expensive for what they are.
At this point, I have zero idea why companies release iems with crap frequency response whether for music or gaming. I get that in the early days of the audiophile community, it was difficult to know which sound signature is good. So they just thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what stuck. However, now a days it is easy to understand which sound signature to prioritise for which use case scenario. There are many famous fr curves including Harman, Crinacle and also the fr curves of Andrew from HPS, Precog, BGGAR etc. Only abject laziness seems to be the reason for purely tuned iems these days. How much extra money or effort would it have cost Razr to tune this iem according to Harmon or similar to something like truthear Hexa??
Imo, there is a market for true gaming iems, meaning an iem whose sound signature doesn't sound good, but fully isolate footsteps, gunshots, and sound effects that are reactable to. I don't know what kind of graph that would look like, and Im not saying these hit that goal, but I think there's market for bad sounding, but specificly tuned audio equipment.
Honestly, Soundstage is king for gaming. It's why things like the AKG k712 and the SHP9500 for a budget option are incredible. They are super wide and can easily pinpoint footsteps. Excessive bass actually drowns out important audio. If you're looking to boost those you want to buy a amp/dac like the SoundBlaster g6 as an example. Plenty of other options but those will do better at boosting what you want when you want and the rest of the time having your headphones be great for movies and music.
Thats suprising to me, I have a rather big collection of headphones and IEMs in all kinds of price ranges, and the k712 has actually been my "daily driver" since 2016 spesifically because of the comfort and how natural sounding they are. UA-cam, podcasts and audio books are a dream with those, so is whatever little audio editing I do. Pretty decent for games too, but if I play something I want to really be immersed in, I swap them. While the imaging is pretty decent on them, ive never found them to be especially wide sounding though. Ive always found them to be quite close, but never so much it feels like you get audio pumped into your ear like alot of closed backs etc. Im curious now, what are you comparing it to?
I just got a cable from linsoul for my 10 year old e215. Your ad reads work crin. Its purple and fly as hell. All the other audio nerds will be jealous.
I went from CHU to OLA to CCA CRA and finally Truthear Zero... Still gaming, listen to music & podcasts and making montages with and I love them, I don't even feel the need to switch over any other pair of IEMs. Perfection (imo) 👌 RAZER "Gaming" IEMs ? Hell Nah !
Regarding the bass, a lower bass response actually helps with competitive gaming because your ears aren't being dwarfed by excessive bass which lets you have more spatial awareness. In Apex Legends for example, the bass of gunshots is so loud it crowds out other important sounds. Not sure how treble affects competitive gaming but from my experience it's not that important
Man if only Razor spoke to someone who knew how to tune IEM's specifically for the use of video games. They'd sell these like crazy if they made sound good.
Not defending the Morays in any way, but not all games are competitive FPSes. Sure footsteps and gunshots are important in those, but if you made headphones or IEMs that focused on those frequencies, they'd likely sound weird with everything else including other game genres.
I do wonder if what razer was trying to emphasize was the material sound. Modern FPS games have really distinct (almost unrealistic) sounds for every material the player can run through and in my experience is the thing I am always looking for instead of how loud the actual footstep is since after playing a map enough you can tell where the enemy is off it
are you gonna make a new guide to iems at some point? since the one linked on your website is not available anymore (yes i know there is a tierlist but god damn there are a lot, and now that i see this shell design i feel like i would need to look even longer for that)
I learned a long time ago that if you want good quality products that actually provide you with value, you don't go to a "gaming" company. Buy a set of flat profile iems that have good staging, a stand alone mic so you can actually be understood instead of sounding like a broadcast from dday and you will be way better off for the same if not cheaper price.
Moray shape + made of magnesium (like the Viper SE) + Crin Zero Tuning + TruthEar Hexa driver config + a good dynamic boom mic for $130-$150 would have been Killer but instead they made this... Razer is fucking up BAD recently (the Cobra Pro mouse is such a weird release too).
@@smark2016 I'm extremely happy with the Hola, the sound stage is way better than any of my gaming headsets and my friends freak out because I always know where the sounds come from in Apex Legends. I'm waiting for my S9 Pro to get even better music but they sound crazy good just over the 3.5mm jack
I have played with Arias, E5000's and LZ A2 pro's. All where great. E5000's where best for rumbly subbass. Which made the games more imerssive. This led me to buying crusher evo's... And I am actually happy 😂. Playing "ground branch" for example gives the shots really nice impact, and makes you way more immersed :D Only issue I have is that the subbass make it very very weird to self monitor my voice. Which I am used to from using IEM's. This can be a bit annoying when talking on discord, I have thought about just wearing IEM's with them on xD I also have to say some bad stuff about my Arias... Did not like them. If you look online you will see that the paint will chip off. And I also had this weird issue where the IEM's wherent propperly "vented", I guess ? Moisture would cause them to get unbalanced in terms of volume. Putting them back in a case with silica "fixed" them every time.
A serious answer to your question as to "what makes a competitive gaming headset/iem a competitive gaming headset/iem", specifically when it comes to the way it sounds: The absolutely number one most important aspect is imaging. By far. The accuracy of both the angle and depth on all 3 axes. Secondly - sound separation. Third - The frequency response should be as flat as possible (mild harman, maybe), but with good treble extension (for harmonics, as you mentioned yourself). As for the bass - boosted bass is to be avoided, as it becomes overbearing in a FPS environment, when there are grenades exploding around you, and you are listening in for the variety of footsteps and gunshot sounds in order to determine where the opponents are going, and what they are doing. There is no point in tuning the drivers for specific frequencies, as in a game like CS for instance, you are listening for a variety of sounds that occur on quite a wide frequency band. And none of those sounds are intrinsically more important than others. As for other features of specifically gaming IEM - i reckon this product might be aimed at people who are trying to imitate pro players on stage, who would wear IEMs under white noise generating headsets, the latter of which also provides a microphone, so the inclusion of it on the actual IEM is not required.
a gaming anything is: a gaming company logo slaped on the top of a most times mid product you could find for a fraction of the cost from a company that focuses on that same product entirely.
I do have to say from my own experience with the Razer Moray is that they're amazing for what they're designed for. I play a lot of Call of Duty Ranked and Tarkov, and many other shooters, and I hear a huge difference when using these IEM's compared to my BASN Metalen Pros and my KZ ZS10 Pros. Moray IEM: When using them I can hear footsteps with pinpoint accuracy, not to mention I can hear gunshots very well. I can even estimate how far someone is from these footsteps/ gunshots. ZS10 Pro IEM: As amazing as they are for listening to music, they do not work for my ears when Playing FPS games. I love how I'm still able to separate what instrument is playing when listening to music, but the bass makes everything too muddy, which is something I detest in gaming headsets, so why would I want a boost in bass in my IEMS? BASN Metalen PRO: These are tuned more for bass heavy applications so I feel like I shot myself in the foot when trying these for shooters. It was disgusting for gaming. I will not take that back. However they're so fucking good when performing on stage. I couldn't recommend a better set of IEMs for a musician to use for a live performance Now keep in mind, this is only an opinion that I have because of how MY ears work. someone of you may not like the Moray's because it doesn't work for you ears personally, and that is perfectly fine. But to downright say they're bad is stupid. Also the fact that these IEM's don't have a mic is a godsend. I hate IEMs with mics, sorry not sorry. Plug them into an interface, or a USB mic. That's what they were designed for. They're actually good for what they're designed to do. And that's be for competitive gamers like me. I'm sorry you guys can't hear the difference Gonna post this one reddit, so if you see this there, it's not a copy paste.
Hey there, read your comment, I'm not an audiophile (yet?) but I'm new to IEMs, currently using the Corsair Virtuoso XT for all around gaming and headset, it costs $280 bucks at the time and I dont usually spend moolah on this kind of things, but Tarkov made me do it, I gotta have good gear to enjoy games like this. I'm looking at the Moray to be my first IEM, would you recommend this? Will this be ok as well as an all around daily output source (music, movies, gaming, YT videos, twitch), I'm not looking into spending so much I know audiophile gears are pricey. thanks!
Hey crinacle, thanks for ur impressive content! I have a question now. Which iEM's would you recommend for gaming in a price range of €200 (1.024,10MYR)
Okay, so... you got my attention mr IEM guy. I am playing a lot of Beat Saber, a vr "rythm" game, vr headset has a jack and speakers on hmd aren't that great. What would you consider an ultimate rythm games IEM?
This sounds like a great video idea! (My rhythm game of choice is Crypt of the NecroDancer.) I wonder, would you want a tuning that's better for music than the sort of V shape Crin mentions?
Not sure. With the case of Valve Index (beforementioned vr headset) - it's speakers are great and comfortable for most applications (I would consider them quite good for a music-based game), but I notice a ton of difference in how many layers there are after I rehear the song after the vr session on my normal headphones.
I can't comment on the signature of the IEMs and how they sound. I have to disagree with the boom mic. Razor is targeting the streamer field where most of them have standalone mic so they have no need for boom mic. As for me, I'm not a streamer. I work from home and I'm gamer, so I spent a lot of my day in front of a PC. I have had a standalone mic since before I chose to switch to IEM's from a decent headset and the reason was to reduce the weight on my head and heat reasons.
How I would describe a "Gaming" IEM/Headphone would be something that is either more focused on certain aspects like footstep response for those who are just looking for that kind of thing or focused on being wide soundstaging and pin point accurate imaging for competitive/immersion gameplay. Of course, they would also have to be very comfortable as well to handle long Gaming sessions.
For me - a "gaming" headphone is one thats wireless, connected to the PC via USB and decent battery life. As Im running ATH-50mxBT as my daily drivers i prefer sound signatures similar to them - and if only bluetooth delay wasnt that bad I'd use it for my PC as well. And I hate having microphones on my "gaming" headset as I got a XLR mic already but cant find one without being either extremely shit, or paying ridicoulous of money for a niche product with terrible battery life and sound, so Logitech PRO is my current driver.
this is a pretty good video that you made because now for those who'd search if the razer iem is worth it they'd how good and cheap it is for a better sounding drivers that doesn't need the gaming brands like logitech razer and stuffs
I kinda feel like you missed a bit of the point with these. Dont get me wrong, im with you in all you say about this, but at the same time its pretty clearly stated several times its for "all day streaming". Im not a streamer myself but I have found myself doing similar things alot (especially after covid) and have found myself gravitating towards the lightest, most comfortable fit possible while also pulling down both treble and bass when necessary as both of them gets a bit exhausting and distracting. Kinda like when turning down the volume so you can see better when driving, its just a feeling of sensory overload ig. In that setting im not after any degree of sound quality, the only thing I want is to be able to hear at all while theres 100 other things going on, including trying to hold a conversation. If theres music, its only there for background noise and listening for footsteps while streaming is kinda out the window already. Anyone who has tried, knows that you play alot worse while streaming due to being distracted anyway haha ^^ I dont know, but for that spesific purpose they dont seem as bad to me, would love to hear your thoughts on that particular aspect. Oh and for the record, I really do not like Razer
there are things the gaming lable can be applied to such as a mouse(weight and sensors being important) monitor(refresh rate and other thngs) mouepads(due to design size texture material etc.) but things such as iem's headphones keyboards and such dont mean anything when put the gaming label on them i have 50$ "gaming" headphones that i got because the sound wasnt terrible and the mic was actually good and they get beat by moondrop because i can genuenly pinpoint the location of a sound with them the only thing they are worse at is the mic quality
I would like to see a commentary from you about kz as24, just because they made 3d printed pipes for each BA set and most videos are quiet positive about that. But I would like the hear about it from you.
This was great but have you ever looked at the Kimura Duo, i know that this product, the razers clearly fall short but its definitely still a huge demographic being comfort first for a lot of people, but i guess the question is then how do you quantify comfort from one person to another?
Roughly speaking, iems that are small or moderately sized with shapes resembling the average contours of human ear would be comfortable for most folks. This Razr iem is an example
I wouldn’t be surprised if the argument is different than just footsteps sounds being boosted, there could be a lot of considerations for what to boost and what to change But of course I wouldn’t be surprised if it was done badly either
What's also wild is that razer doesnt have to do much to make these amazing. just change the signature and honest add the mic from the newest black shark and boom that 135 tag doesn't look so bad at all.
I'm on the "dark" side of sound and I can tell you that when you get used to it, when you try the more "bright" and audiophile earphones, your ears hurt because of the sheer amount of treble they have. Your ears get used to earphones with "less details", but you can still hear the details in the "dark" sound.
@@d3smond Happy you love them! Crin is absolutely right that gaming and music enjoyment aren’t always mutually exclusive. Beautiful thing to have the best of both worlds ! Really why I’m loving IEMs they can work so well for both purposes
Hey Crin, I just started subcribing to you and bought my very first moondrop. thx for the new addiction. I'm having a hard time knowing what to do now, like I hear you said EQ is great, but how the heck do I do it on my IEM? and what else shoud I do now?
One use case I can see for these are online meetings and virtual classes because of the comfortable design. Since the sound only has to be clear enough for you to understand what your coworkers/teacher are saying, you don't need a lot of detail. And the muffling could prevent the harshness and sibilance of bad mics. Still at >100, I'm not curious enough to try them, but it could be an interesting genre of headphones.
Did you test them in conjunction with Razer's software? Because like any other gAmiNg peripheral, the product is as cheap as possible while the software works overtime to add zazz to otherwise mundane hardware. That's a pretty big THX logo on the Razer box, so I can only assume these are tuned to level out the harshness often put out by gAyMiNgGg DSPs and their 5D RGB 6.9 surround emulation
The lack of a mic really makes me question what Razer is thinking with this IEM. Most people that want to buy a "gaming" audio product, would very likely play FPS or other multiplayer games. They've either missed their target, or they plan to sell an attachable mic in the future. I'm happy with my KZ ZS10 Pros for a fraction of the price of these. There are so many ChiFi options out there, I wouldn't go for the branding and marketing these days, although I've made that mistake in the past.
Forgot to mention it while filming but the Morays get a C-.
Will update it on the ranking list when the overhaul is finished: crinacle.com/rankings/iems
So you’re saying they pass? 😅
The overhaul is gonna be so nice once it's finally complete. Thanks for doing all the work you do for us.
Better than expected.
I feel like at this point, putting "gaming" on a set of headphones, ear buds or anything of the sort just means there decent headphones with more bass then needed, which, hey, I like bass, but there is more to gaming then that.
Please compare them to the Final Audio VR3000, they need more time in the limelight
If it sits in your ear
But it's not great to hear
That's a Moray!
i actually sang that. XD
Now this comment just made my day 😂😂😂😂👍🏿
😂😂🤣🤣 lmao love this!
if it"s stuck in your head
but it sounds mostly dead
you're a dolt
Clever!
In my experience, if you want a good set of "gaming" headphones/IEMs, just get a good set of comfortable music headphones/IEMs and a standalone mic if you need/want one. Sound is sound. Don't pay for marketing.
Yeah… but some are better than others specifically for gaming. Hitting specific frequencies is really important for audio intensive shooters, so it is definitely something to consider. Dont pay attention to me tho, i have some cheap truthear c crinacle zeroes, but still miles better than my £160 headset for games
The only real advantage for gaming is to get something v-shaped. Not because treble gives you more spatial clues or anything (realistically, with hundreds of hours in the game, you will get used to both the sounds themselves and how they sound on your head-/earphones so you will easily pick them out anyway), but because deep, thumping bass and accentuated treble make gunshots and explosions sound more impactful, as well as giving engines a more full sound.
And of course tastefully v-shaped head-/earphones will also be well suited for music listening.
you forgot the convenience part. this is kinda niche but as a uni student and an esports player, i find myself often resorting to just use the crappy headset at a cybercafe or borrow my friend's headset bcs my moondrop chu doesnt have a mic lol.
I just use a pair of HD 599 and a Razer Seiren (was on sale) and I've never had any issues with audio quality going either direction.
Every headset I've bought has always had some sort of deal breaker. Too tight on the head, sound wasn't good, cables would die for no reason, mic sucked, etc.
no shit.
Can't wait for the Razer x Crinacle project then
Considering the only good/decent audio product I can think of from razor is a DAC that was a collaboration with THX. That would probably be a good idea for razor to stick to collaborating with people that know what they're doing.
Oh yeah😂
But if it had a usable FR it wouldn't fit with all the other audio products from the brand lmao
Won't be surprised since Crin is literally 25mins away from razer HQ SG.
@@blindsniper35ironically enough razer actually bought thx a while back. Doesn’t appear to have helped anything but just diluted the thx brand
Imagine the Truthear zero signature with Razer Moray comfort at $80. Razer could easily take over the gaming IEM market with that combo. Razer if you're reading this I know you don't like to listen to your consumers (the Cobra), but listen to Crin and make some magic happen.
No, clearly what this iem needs is RGB, and Synapse
@@Alepap. kinda shocked they don't already have that
that would be TOO GOOD, Razer is definitely NOT doing that LMAO
seriously, they should reach out Crin to tuning their next IEM (and just removes the THX gimmick for cheaper price)
@@Alepap. synapse lol. required login lmao
I ran through the Hexa, Hola and Zero:Red for multiple hours in CSGO and Quake and found the Hexa with AutoEQ loaded up had insane positional audio capabilities. Found myself tracking opponents through walls easier than my HD6XX somehow. The only downside is the comfort difference but the drivers found in that set are absolutely brilliant with the W1 tips installed.
Could you explain a little more about autoeq? Would it work for the zero red? That’s what I use for PUBG and they have been the best I have ever used. But could I make them better?
@@Like13Pirates No don't touch the Red with EQ... they're near perfect
Whats recommended for hexa autoeq?
Honestly, turning off the music in games leads to a more competitive edge than a lot of IEM's. I play a lo of Dota2, not a game you'd think benefits from improved audio, but ever since I've been playing it without music, you can clearly tell so many interactions apart, that it makes the whole experience better. From a competitive standpoint, no more audio swelling up before specific fights, nothing, you can hear an initiation crystal clear from the fog and keep a track of everything that happens, just by the sound of it.
I hate my Holas for gaming. Are the Zero Reds better for it?
Since crinacle can't say it, I will. The closest thing to a gaming profile, funny enough, is the harman curve, which makes crinnacle's original zero the best gaming iem.
I think future collab sets could be those optimized greater with comfort.
It's been echoed by many FPS gamers that the Zero is a fantastic IEM. There's been a surge of popularity with IEMs for gamers because of the comfort and light weight, seems like Razer is just trying to ride the "fad" among gamers without making an actual good product.
I came hear to say this also! I agree 100% they are so good i got 2 Truthear x Criancle Zeros 1 as a back up
yep, seems most (if not all) game studios master and design their audio with the classic harman target/curve so it makes sense why the Crin Zero excels at gaming (having the extra driver in crossover is what actually helps it above the other 1DD price competitors that also target the Harman Curve).
@zioperaza2500 if gaming OG1. Reds are a better music experience but lose what makes OG1 good at gaming.
Razer are real funny charging $130 for these. A couple years back I picked up a pair of Sound Magic E11 earphones for I think £25-30, and they've been absolutely stellar for both gaming and movies - despite have zero "gaming" or "streamer" branding. They're perfect for when I don't want to wear a bulky pair of headphones but still want a nice listening experience. I even purchased a second pair for my Switch.
So for about £60 all in I've got two comfortable pairs of earphones with great audio - half the price of the Morays, which by Crinacle's account have weak sound quality anyway.
people are dumb.... and because people are dumb, we can´t have nice things... have seen beyerdynamics had a pair of inear headphones they were selling for around 20 but when it did not sell they changed the price to 120 and BAAM people start buying.
I def agree on comfort. One of my first iems was the zs3 and I still miss that kind of fit 3 years later lmao
Might buy a tkzk ouranos sometime soon simply for the fit lmao
Fiio FA1 is another one I love for comfort and treble. Bass and Mids are kinda dull tho cuz of the single BA.
Thanks for the review Crin. I actually enjoyed your analysis of this and found it very informative and food for thought. I expected you to maybe say how bad they are but this was more interesting.
When comfort lights a spark
But the sound is too dark
That‘s a Moray
Razer x Crin collab would be insane
Thank you! Finally, someone attempts to define a "gaming IEM" while offering useful/supportive commentary around the entire debacle.
The videography on this video is amazing, kudos
THE BEST GAMING IEM is one which you've gotten used to the sound signature of XD
you can argue that boosting specific frequencies can help with isolating footsteps and gunshots but if you're used to the sound signature of your iem/headphone then you're already looking for sounds in those frequencies anyways
i've been gaming with several different headphones/iems (hd6xx, ksc75, kato, chu) and i've never had an issue where I couldn't hear the footsteps or gunshots or haven't been able to remember which direction it came from
I like your point of view and how you support your ideas. About the suggested lowering of the price, people nowadays just buy 'gaming' things due to the tag, and even more so with Razer products. Razer never lowers its prices.
Great video Crin, your extensive knowledge and honest appraisal is always appreciated
Your next IEM needs to use an ergo shell for sleep. Pls make it cheap. TY.
When looking at gear to use while gaming there’s really 2 big things to look for. Comfort and Price. If I’m playing FPS: Spatial Audio is then the biggest contributor to “Competitive Advantage.” (Which lets be honest a pair of open backs headphones will be your best option here for comfort and a more “natural” spatial audio experience; not IEMs) If I’m wanting it on console, the boom mic is also wanted for convenience. A super simple concept that is just constantly being missed in the IEM market.
first time watching your videos. i love the entertainment, the reactions, and the timing of everything. You'll be my go to for iems for now on
Bought the Moondrop Sparks last year. Still love it till this day except comfort (that's a nightmare)
It's great for listening to notifications?
"What is a gaming _anything_?"
Let's be real, it's one thing: RGB lighting
Love the green hue theme!! It’s perfect! Gaming companies gotta do better with audio man!!
People are realizing IEM's are generally better for gaming, in semi-comp to competitive, but as you said, the lines get blurred between IEM's and Cans if you know what to listen for. But companies see this, and are just smashing lack luster IEM's into the market hoping people buy them only due to the brand name. Why does this bother me? If these are someones introduction to IEM's, they get a horrible first time experience and will probably just go back to their cans and miss out all that IEM's can offer. At the $130 price point these have, there are WAY better options available, most are cheaper too.
I really want to see crinacle try skullcandy crusher headphones.
For CSGO at LAN events you'll see players with earphones or IEMs under the tournament issued headsets, but they all seem to be pretty bog standard stuff or, as Crin says, sponsor dependent.
I recall dev1ce asking for advice a while back about better IEMs - he was trying Shures at the time - and it would appear there is a target market for game tuned IEMS.
Whether anybody will delve into data files or to test frequency of noises in certain games and design IEMs around that is perhaps a different matter, particularly if user hardware or set up could affect this in someway.
Yup, I remember also a CSGO pro criticizing the sponsored IEMs, I would really love the data of what IEMs pros prefer, I have the Salnotes zeroes and I play CSGO at a high level but I prefer my cheap headphones over my IEMs ( even though my Zeroes blow my headphones out of the water when it comes to quality it's not even comparable) since they have better stereo imagining since by definition, it's hard to achieve that on an IEM
Actually this IEM has a pretty good special localisation quality. But for me the upper frequency bump was actually very fatiguing. To the point that I had to mute some games in the menus because it was bombarding me with high frequency effects. In the end I couldn't stand it and had to sell it unfortunately because the localisation of sounds and enemies was nice. But imo they are also a bit too expensive for what they are.
At this point, I have zero idea why companies release iems with crap frequency response whether for music or gaming. I get that in the early days of the audiophile community, it was difficult to know which sound signature is good. So they just thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what stuck. However, now a days it is easy to understand which sound signature to prioritise for which use case scenario. There are many famous fr curves including Harman, Crinacle and also the fr curves of Andrew from HPS, Precog, BGGAR etc. Only abject laziness seems to be the reason for purely tuned iems these days.
How much extra money or effort would it have cost Razr to tune this iem according to Harmon or similar to something like truthear Hexa??
Imo, there is a market for true gaming iems, meaning an iem whose sound signature doesn't sound good, but fully isolate footsteps, gunshots, and sound effects that are reactable to.
I don't know what kind of graph that would look like, and Im not saying these hit that goal, but I think there's market for bad sounding, but specificly tuned audio equipment.
Not gonna lie when you told me to fuck off at the end I hit that subscribe button hahaha
Honestly, Soundstage is king for gaming. It's why things like the AKG k712 and the SHP9500 for a budget option are incredible. They are super wide and can easily pinpoint footsteps. Excessive bass actually drowns out important audio. If you're looking to boost those you want to buy a amp/dac like the SoundBlaster g6 as an example. Plenty of other options but those will do better at boosting what you want when you want and the rest of the time having your headphones be great for movies and music.
Thats suprising to me, I have a rather big collection of headphones and IEMs in all kinds of price ranges, and the k712 has actually been my "daily driver" since 2016 spesifically because of the comfort and how natural sounding they are. UA-cam, podcasts and audio books are a dream with those, so is whatever little audio editing I do. Pretty decent for games too, but if I play something I want to really be immersed in, I swap them.
While the imaging is pretty decent on them, ive never found them to be especially wide sounding though. Ive always found them to be quite close, but never so much it feels like you get audio pumped into your ear like alot of closed backs etc. Im curious now, what are you comparing it to?
I just got a cable from linsoul for my 10 year old e215. Your ad reads work crin. Its purple and fly as hell. All the other audio nerds will be jealous.
I think the choked high range of this is particularly useful for shooting games. Competitive shooters for hours on end do get very fatiguing.
I went from CHU to OLA to CCA CRA and finally Truthear Zero...
Still gaming, listen to music & podcasts and making montages with and I love them, I don't even feel the need to switch over any other pair of IEMs. Perfection (imo) 👌
RAZER "Gaming" IEMs ? Hell Nah !
Great vid, this is actually helpful and will help eq my iems for gaming
Regarding the bass, a lower bass response actually helps with competitive gaming because your ears aren't being dwarfed by excessive bass which lets you have more spatial awareness. In Apex Legends for example, the bass of gunshots is so loud it crowds out other important sounds. Not sure how treble affects competitive gaming but from my experience it's not that important
Could we really say that an IEM which follow a +5db bass boost with -0.8db tilt have "limp bass"?
Man if only Razor spoke to someone who knew how to tune IEM's specifically for the use of video games. They'd sell these like crazy if they made sound good.
daddy crin upload a new video!
Not defending the Morays in any way, but not all games are competitive FPSes. Sure footsteps and gunshots are important in those, but if you made headphones or IEMs that focused on those frequencies, they'd likely sound weird with everything else including other game genres.
Thanks for telling me what to think crinacle!
I do wonder if what razer was trying to emphasize was the material sound. Modern FPS games have really distinct (almost unrealistic) sounds for every material the player can run through and in my experience is the thing I am always looking for instead of how loud the actual footstep is since after playing a map enough you can tell where the enemy is off it
are you gonna make a new guide to iems at some point? since the one linked on your website is not available anymore (yes i know there is a tierlist but god damn there are a lot, and now that i see this shell design i feel like i would need to look even longer for that)
I learned a long time ago that if you want good quality products that actually provide you with value, you don't go to a "gaming" company. Buy a set of flat profile iems that have good staging, a stand alone mic so you can actually be understood instead of sounding like a broadcast from dday and you will be way better off for the same if not cheaper price.
Moray shape + made of magnesium (like the Viper SE) + Crin Zero Tuning + TruthEar Hexa driver config + a good dynamic boom mic for $130-$150 would have been Killer but instead they made this... Razer is fucking up BAD recently (the Cobra Pro mouse is such a weird release too).
I wish you could someday make a video on best gaming IEMs.
Writing this before watching. I love the design of them. I want the casing with a great driver!
chu 2 chu2 chu2 UwU
Lmao, chuchu
BTW I just bought a set of Hola thanks to your advice and I'm hoping they work for gaming too when they arrive.
I was about to order a set tonight which i'd use mainly for FPS.
I'm gonna wait and not order just yet to see what your experience is.
Greetings.
@@smark2016 I'm extremely happy with the Hola, the sound stage is way better than any of my gaming headsets and my friends freak out because I always know where the sounds come from in Apex Legends. I'm waiting for my S9 Pro to get even better music but they sound crazy good just over the 3.5mm jack
I have played with Arias, E5000's and LZ A2 pro's. All where great. E5000's where best for rumbly subbass. Which made the games more imerssive.
This led me to buying crusher evo's...
And I am actually happy 😂. Playing "ground branch" for example gives the shots really nice impact, and makes you way more immersed :D
Only issue I have is that the subbass make it very very weird to self monitor my voice. Which I am used to from using IEM's. This can be a bit annoying when talking on discord, I have thought about just wearing IEM's with them on xD
I also have to say some bad stuff about my Arias... Did not like them. If you look online you will see that the paint will chip off. And I also had this weird issue where the IEM's wherent propperly "vented", I guess ? Moisture would cause them to get unbalanced in terms of volume. Putting them back in a case with silica "fixed" them every time.
thank you for bein here for our calm asses!! :D
Monarch Mk3 is already coming and your review of the MK2, the number one of your list, never came. 😢
Great review, Razer is killing it.
ikr the product is dead on arrival
The best outro in the game. Cracks me up every time lolol
A serious answer to your question as to "what makes a competitive gaming headset/iem a competitive gaming headset/iem", specifically when it comes to the way it sounds:
The absolutely number one most important aspect is imaging. By far. The accuracy of both the angle and depth on all 3 axes.
Secondly - sound separation.
Third - The frequency response should be as flat as possible (mild harman, maybe), but with good treble extension (for harmonics, as you mentioned yourself).
As for the bass - boosted bass is to be avoided, as it becomes overbearing in a FPS environment, when there are grenades exploding around you, and you are listening in for the variety of footsteps and gunshot sounds in order to determine where the opponents are going, and what they are doing.
There is no point in tuning the drivers for specific frequencies, as in a game like CS for instance, you are listening for a variety of sounds that occur on quite a wide frequency band. And none of those sounds are intrinsically more important than others.
As for other features of specifically gaming IEM - i reckon this product might be aimed at people who are trying to imitate pro players on stage, who would wear IEMs under white noise generating headsets, the latter of which also provides a microphone, so the inclusion of it on the actual IEM is not required.
No RGB = Not Gaming
C- that’s not surprising, hope they let you tune the v2 and make it in white
Great review thank you
Make a video about bluetooth neckband earbuds
a gaming anything is: a gaming company logo slaped on the top of a most times mid product you could find for a fraction of the cost from a company that focuses on that same product entirely.
I do have to say from my own experience with the Razer Moray is that they're amazing for what they're designed for. I play a lot of Call of Duty Ranked and Tarkov, and many other shooters, and I hear a huge difference when using these IEM's compared to my BASN Metalen Pros and my KZ ZS10 Pros.
Moray IEM: When using them I can hear footsteps with pinpoint accuracy, not to mention I can hear gunshots very well. I can even estimate how far someone is from these footsteps/ gunshots.
ZS10 Pro IEM: As amazing as they are for listening to music, they do not work for my ears when Playing FPS games. I love how I'm still able to separate what instrument is playing when listening to music, but the bass makes everything too muddy, which is something I detest in gaming headsets, so why would I want a boost in bass in my IEMS?
BASN Metalen PRO: These are tuned more for bass heavy applications so I feel like I shot myself in the foot when trying these for shooters. It was disgusting for gaming. I will not take that back. However they're so fucking good when performing on stage. I couldn't recommend a better set of IEMs for a musician to use for a live performance
Now keep in mind, this is only an opinion that I have because of how MY ears work. someone of you may not like the Moray's because it doesn't work for you ears personally, and that is perfectly fine. But to downright say they're bad is stupid. Also the fact that these IEM's don't have a mic is a godsend. I hate IEMs with mics, sorry not sorry. Plug them into an interface, or a USB mic. That's what they were designed for. They're actually good for what they're designed to do. And that's be for competitive gamers like me.
I'm sorry you guys can't hear the difference
Gonna post this one reddit, so if you see this there, it's not a copy paste.
Hey there, read your comment, I'm not an audiophile (yet?) but I'm new to IEMs, currently using the Corsair Virtuoso XT for all around gaming and headset, it costs $280 bucks at the time and I dont usually spend moolah on this kind of things, but Tarkov made me do it, I gotta have good gear to enjoy games like this. I'm looking at the Moray to be my first IEM, would you recommend this? Will this be ok as well as an all around daily output source (music, movies, gaming, YT videos, twitch), I'm not looking into spending so much I know audiophile gears are pricey.
thanks!
Hey crinacle, thanks for ur impressive content! I have a question now. Which iEM's would you recommend for gaming in a price range of €200 (1.024,10MYR)
Okay, so... you got my attention mr IEM guy.
I am playing a lot of Beat Saber, a vr "rythm" game, vr headset has a jack and speakers on hmd aren't that great.
What would you consider an ultimate rythm games IEM?
This sounds like a great video idea! (My rhythm game of choice is Crypt of the NecroDancer.) I wonder, would you want a tuning that's better for music than the sort of V shape Crin mentions?
Not sure. With the case of Valve Index (beforementioned vr headset) - it's speakers are great and comfortable for most applications (I would consider them quite good for a music-based game), but I notice a ton of difference in how many layers there are after I rehear the song after the vr session on my normal headphones.
"Calm y'all asses down"
I immediately hit subscribe! lololol
I can't comment on the signature of the IEMs and how they sound. I have to disagree with the boom mic. Razor is targeting the streamer field where most of them have standalone mic so they have no need for boom mic. As for me, I'm not a streamer. I work from home and I'm gamer, so I spent a lot of my day in front of a PC. I have had a standalone mic since before I chose to switch to IEM's from a decent headset and the reason was to reduce the weight on my head and heat reasons.
i was unlucky my moon drop aria's stopped working the second day. the sound equality is great
They legit have access to you. Why did they not just get you in on this project!?!? Its baffling
How I would describe a "Gaming" IEM/Headphone would be something that is either more focused on certain aspects like footstep response for those who are just looking for that kind of thing or focused on being wide soundstaging and pin point accurate imaging for competitive/immersion gameplay. Of course, they would also have to be very comfortable as well to handle long Gaming sessions.
CS doesnt even have hrtf, testing for soundstaging in it has no point whatsoever
For me - a "gaming" headphone is one thats wireless, connected to the PC via USB and decent battery life.
As Im running ATH-50mxBT as my daily drivers i prefer sound signatures similar to them - and if only bluetooth delay wasnt that bad I'd use it for my PC as well.
And I hate having microphones on my "gaming" headset as I got a XLR mic already but cant find one without being either extremely shit, or paying ridicoulous of money for a niche product with terrible battery life and sound, so Logitech PRO is my current driver.
this is a pretty good video that you made because now for those who'd search if the razer iem is worth it they'd how good and cheap it is for a better sounding drivers that doesn't need the gaming brands like logitech razer and stuffs
crinacle is evolving in a more accurate reviews direction!
I kinda feel like you missed a bit of the point with these. Dont get me wrong, im with you in all you say about this, but at the same time its pretty clearly stated several times its for "all day streaming". Im not a streamer myself but I have found myself doing similar things alot (especially after covid) and have found myself gravitating towards the lightest, most comfortable fit possible while also pulling down both treble and bass when necessary as both of them gets a bit exhausting and distracting. Kinda like when turning down the volume so you can see better when driving, its just a feeling of sensory overload ig.
In that setting im not after any degree of sound quality, the only thing I want is to be able to hear at all while theres 100 other things going on, including trying to hold a conversation. If theres music, its only there for background noise and listening for footsteps while streaming is kinda out the window already. Anyone who has tried, knows that you play alot worse while streaming due to being distracted anyway haha ^^
I dont know, but for that spesific purpose they dont seem as bad to me, would love to hear your thoughts on that particular aspect.
Oh and for the record, I really do not like Razer
hey @crinacle , what do u think is the best wireless headphones/headset?
there are things the gaming lable can be applied to such as a mouse(weight and sensors being important) monitor(refresh rate and other thngs) mouepads(due to design size texture material etc.) but things such as iem's headphones keyboards and such dont mean anything when put the gaming label on them i have 50$ "gaming" headphones that i got because the sound wasnt terrible and the mic was actually good and they get beat by moondrop because i can genuenly pinpoint the location of a sound with them the only thing they are worse at is the mic quality
I would like to see a commentary from you about kz as24, just because they made 3d printed pipes for each BA set and most videos are quiet positive about that. But I would like the hear about it from you.
the ending was masterful
It woud be very helpful to show which frequencies make us hear footsteps best. And show is it bass or treble that makes the difference.
For gaming, the best iems ive tried was PR1 PRO, even be a planar iem, responses very well directly from a Xbox Controller
This was great but have you ever looked at the Kimura Duo, i know that this product, the razers clearly fall short but its definitely still a huge demographic being comfort first for a lot of people, but i guess the question is then how do you quantify comfort from one person to another?
Roughly speaking, iems that are small or moderately sized with shapes resembling the average contours of human ear would be comfortable for most folks. This Razr iem is an example
I wouldn’t be surprised if the argument is different than just footsteps sounds being boosted, there could be a lot of considerations for what to boost and what to change
But of course I wouldn’t be surprised if it was done badly either
'And don't die' huh, that was weird but sure oka- 'fuck off' ...
I like this guy.
Sony playstation buds just got an announcement. Any plans on testing those? They promised "audiophile quality"
When will you review Status Between 3anc? I feel like they’re popular rn and I see their advertising everywhere
the moondrop Aria for fighting games are insane
@crinacle any chance to get the Hifiman Svanar Wireless review? :) thanks for all your work as always!
speaking of boom mics, can you review them? I like the cable that came with the 6hz...
What's also wild is that razer doesnt have to do much to make these amazing. just change the signature and honest add the mic from the newest black shark and boom that 135 tag doesn't look so bad at all.
I thought most footstep frequencies are in the mid to high region? At least, that's what really helps in games like CSGO, Valorant, etc.
well it depends, but average of footstep frequencies are at the lower midrange to mid bass
I'm on the "dark" side of sound and I can tell you that when you get used to it, when you try the more "bright" and audiophile earphones, your ears hurt because of the sheer amount of treble they have. Your ears get used to earphones with "less details", but you can still hear the details in the "dark" sound.
The moray was one of the worst I’ve tried so far 😂
Love your reviews man! Got the Xenns Top based on your recommendation and they have been absolutely amazing for gaming and music enjoyment.
@@d3smond Happy you love them! Crin is absolutely right that gaming and music enjoyment aren’t always mutually exclusive. Beautiful thing to have the best of both worlds ! Really why I’m loving IEMs they can work so well for both purposes
Hey Crin, I just started subcribing to you and bought my very first moondrop. thx for the new addiction. I'm having a hard time knowing what to do now, like I hear you said EQ is great, but how the heck do I do it on my IEM? and what else shoud I do now?
The Headphone Show has a video on EQ basics.
Fantastic review
The amount of music drops makes my brain feel funny
One use case I can see for these are online meetings and virtual classes because of the comfortable design.
Since the sound only has to be clear enough for you to understand what your coworkers/teacher are saying, you don't need a lot of detail. And the muffling could prevent the harshness and sibilance of bad mics.
Still at >100, I'm not curious enough to try them, but it could be an interesting genre of headphones.
Hello crinacle, can you suggest an iem that is comfortable to use for long periods of time?
is there any reason you don't touch on imaging or stage depth for the "gaming performance"?
no im not defending this i can read a graph (hi listener)
Did you test them in conjunction with Razer's software? Because like any other gAmiNg peripheral, the product is as cheap as possible while the software works overtime to add zazz to otherwise mundane hardware. That's a pretty big THX logo on the Razer box, so I can only assume these are tuned to level out the harshness often put out by gAyMiNgGg DSPs and their 5D RGB 6.9 surround emulation
The lack of a mic really makes me question what Razer is thinking with this IEM. Most people that want to buy a "gaming" audio product, would very likely play FPS or other multiplayer games. They've either missed their target, or they plan to sell an attachable mic in the future. I'm happy with my KZ ZS10 Pros for a fraction of the price of these. There are so many ChiFi options out there, I wouldn't go for the branding and marketing these days, although I've made that mistake in the past.
finally! Content
are they good at reducing sound when sleeping?