Piper Comanche - Better Than Ever!
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- Опубліковано 9 гру 2020
- It's fast, economical, and still looks great 62 years after it was introduced. Come along as we explore the history, versions, and performance of the Comanche and are joined by Comanche 250 flyer Mike Ellis who shares his ownership journey.
Videos of Comanches in action including the Comanche 250, 260, 260B, 260C, and 400.
UA-cam clip credits
Mike Ellis: Follow Mike on his UA-cam channel for Comanche information and adventures. / @pipercomanche2506
Horsemoney: Excellent aircraft videographer! Spend some time on her site.
Channel / @horsemoney
Clip 1 & Clip 4 N6604P, Clip 2 N8649P, Clip 3 N8803P, Clip 6 N5290P, Clip 7 N6656P, Clip 12 N9XT
Philip Ching: Clip 5, N5474P, First air-to air
jeffcrouchmusic: Clip 8, Comanche 400 engine
io720 a1B: Clip 9, Comanche 400 take off (Hat tip to his username)
N8792P: Clip 10, Low pass
ControllerAircraft: Clip 11, Second air-to air
Heritage Aero: Clip 13, Comanche 260TC engine (also some lighting and speed mods on his full video)
Piper Aircraft: Clip 14, PA28 segment (5000 Cherokees sold in the first five years. Can you imagine?)
Robin Johansson: Clip 15, Comanche SE-IKF
Music: Lycoming and ATC - Авто та транспорт
I was working as a mechanic at the Lock Haven airfield during the flood of June 1972. 12 feet of water covered everything in the hangar, even the avionics test equipment we stored up as high as we could. We all showed up back at work on a Monday morning greeted by 4 inches of mud and one copperhead snake. There were about 170 airplanes on the field at the time. We started preserving engines after draining the oil and water. Some planes were cleaned up and repaired as necessary but they had to be exported. None were allowed to be registered in the USA. There were different levels of inundation depending on where on the airfield that planes were put during the flood. No one knew what effect the water had on the metal as there was a chemical plant above town that released various substances to the flow. We got a government contract to disassemble some twins, including Navajo, to send to NAFEC in New Jersey for crash testing with dummies strapped in the seats. One made the cover of Popular Mechanics a year later. They were interesting times. I spent a little time working on a 400 Comanche and I considered it the Poor Man's P-51 Mustang.
That would have Hurricane Agnes in June 72. I was living in Middletown (bet 2nd and 3rd grade).
@@sammalone7352 By the time that weather got to PA it was downgraded to a tropical storm. 14 inches of rain fell on already saturated ground. I knew by noon on Wednesday (or maybe it was Thursday.) it was going to be bad so after eating my lunch at home I went back to the hangar and loaded up a few of my tools so I could work on another project at home. I should have brought them ALL home.
Great memories I was also mechanic Alphin aircraft in hagerstown. Picked up many out of lock haven & Bloomsburg.Oh to be young again !
IR, join the Piper Comanche group on Facebook if you’re on there. You must have awesome stories from those days!
@@ginoshemesh You mean like the one that sold for $200? I have that story somewhere. It's pretty awesome. Last one built. Still in Primer. Perfect condition.
Dude!!!! I own 9248P a 260 B! I was blown away that it's on this video!!!!
Grew up in the back seat of the 35th ever built. N5033P
A Comanche is in my future as soon as I find the right deal. Have loved them since I was a kid.
Checkout the two 400's currently for sale by Hanger67. My Dad owned 42P years ago. Recently upgraded avionics and interior. She's beautiful.
I had a 61 250 from 1975 to 1984. It was one of the best planes I ever flew, the only bad habit I can think of is it had STOL tips on the ends of the wings and on landing it would float and float and float some more.
Once I was flying from Vegas to Redmond Ore, 16,000', in and out of the soup and picking up ice now and then. Eventually, I had about 3/4", it would still maintain 16,000. No turbo, just a carbureted O-540.........
That plane was a workhorse, it'd do just about anything you asked of it.
I love the paint scheme, that gray and blue is just so cool!
I love my 1960 250! I’m being bias but the 1960 is the sweet spot in the line up. Manual flaps are amazing and 1960 was the last year for them. They don’t have the flap track/roller problems on the Fowler flap electric models. I don’t normally change configurations on the runway with complex planes, but the manual flap Comanche is an exception. Dump the flaps right after touchdown and transfer weight to the wheels for great braking action and less floating in windy conditions. With my tip tanks and 1200lbs useful load, the thing is a cross country beast. Up to 160kt cruise and 1000nm range, I wonder why people buy Cessna 182s for more money?
I owned a '48 Bonanza with 180 hp. and put on many hours on her. It flew like a dream and was super easy to land on our short strip we flew off of. My Stearman partner, a Doctor, owned a Comanche 180 and was having a hard time landing it. I had never flown one and he asked me to get behind the yoke and give her a go. If someone blind-folded me, I would have swore it was a Bonanza . It was very easy to land as the Bonanza and my first landing was a super grease job, which at that time the good old Doctor cussed me up and down, because he could never land like that. After a few nice landings, I asked him to fly and see what he was doing wrong. After a few landings, I seen he wasn't looking down to the end of the runway, just out of the side. He did improve and finally enjoyed his airplane!
In the late 1960s my father purchased and rebuilt a ‘59 250 (N6376P) in our basement which had crash landed in the mountains of West Virginia after an error by a mechanic caused an engine failure. Long story short he sold it after several years when someone made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. Jump ahead to about 10 years ago - I googled the registration number just out of curiosity one day to see if the plane was still in service and where and discovered that it was lost in the Bermuda Triangle in 1991 and is #115 on the “official” list of aircraft lost there. I have no idea why someone would have been flying over the ocean in a single engine airplane but the cause is listed as an unexplained loss of instrumentation (per the pilot’s last transmission) and unfortunately two fatalities. The airplane and one of the bodies were never recovered. My father passed in 1996 so he never knew about the loss.
The Comanche is a great airplane, I have flown the 180, 250, 260 and owned a 400. The Comanche is as rugged as an airplane can be found anywhere. I flew my 400 from Lake City FL to El Monte CA with one fuel stop in San Angelo Texas. El Monte is in the Los Angeles area and Lake City is around 70 miles inland from the Atlantic. The 400 is practically a coast to coast with one fuel stop airplane. I love all Comanches and can’t think of anything bad to say about them.
I was one of the owners of 8803P shown in the video. It was wet leased to the FAA. It was a handful as single pilot IFR and NO autopilot. We had some experiences with engine issues which turned out to be a flat spotted cam. The round air inlet which is smaller than the 250 is subject to clogging if you get into impact snow. I found it fast with lots of range and speed with great looks
Best airplane for the money and really good support after all these years. 260TC is as fast as the 400 without the deadweight on the nose, this becomes really noticeable on final approach. The tip tanks actually increase the strength of the wing because they don’t let turbulence stress out the wing by counteracting the sudden extreme force of lift. Everyone should do this upgrade just because of this benefit alone.
My dad had a 260b for almost 30 years. What an outstanding aircraft. It's still flying :) N9255P
62 effin years... We are truly stuck in this timeline :)
Could not agree more. Would you want to drive a car that was designed 62 years ago? Not unless you were after a classic car, no. Sigh
How old is the wheel?
Thanks for featuring Mike Ellis! Nice vid!
Appreciate the informational video and cheers to that great looking couple! May they experience many more years to come. Happy Holidays!
A club I was in had C-172 N79877. They also had a 260B, which I acquired when the club dissolved. It has been a good investment. I was thinking of trading up to a TwinCo, but then I caught the helicopter bug.
Great video. Thanks for having Mike. I consider him the guru advisor of Comanches!👏
Great video and the best airplane Piper ever made. Thank you!
Great video. Learned a lot about the Comanche as to the compared C172. Thanks you!
Blows my mind how little aircraft performance changes over the past few decades compared to vehicles.
There are many reasons. Certification and legal liability being the biggest obstacles to latest technologies being introduced into GA aircraft.
Take fuselage construction. It's a no brainer that carbon fibre - composite materials could increase payload and performance, including range and speed, while reducing stall, takeoff and landing distances.
But to manufacture, build, maintain and keep costs contained is almost impossible given the complexities and low production numbers involved.
Engines are incredibly difficult to improve while maintaining redundancy, environment - temperature parameters unless a turbine is considered. But who's going to fork out another 200 grand for it, in a four to six place GA aircraft? One of the best built was the Eagle designed Cessna P-210 with an Alison 250. Today used, they are 750K with a half time engine.
And we haven't even touched on avionics...
Piper's own M600 with full fuel has a net payload of a mere 650 lbs for $3.5M !!! That's just absurd.
Just wanted to say this is an excellent video. Love the format of learning a little about the plane, what other planes are in it’s category and hearing why an actual owner chose it. Perfect length, great production value, just a really good video, nice work. Looking forward to more in the future
Thanks for the kind words Andrew!
Ill second this comment. Would love to see more of this. 👍
Usto fly a PA24 a lot on charter as a CPL. Great aero plane. I think it's the best single engine Aero plane ever built.
It's so flexible, even on short grass strips. Very low fatigue. Very low maintenance. I knew one of the worlds greatest ferry pilot Max Conrad. Max flew a PA24 from Chicago to Paris with long range tanks, flight time was 72 hours non stop.
Great vid!
Beautiful wife, Amazing plane, happy for you kids. Your success story is going to be an example for my son on .... how to work hard , invest right , and retire before 50 , have toys , have fun , be healthy 😀 and most of all No Stress. Thanks for sharing your videos with us.
Nice video. I owned a '60 250 for 13 years. N6697P. Still on the registry. I bought it in Minnesota and flew it back to Indiana and made it mine. That was 1993. It helped that I have an A&P certificate. Maintenance wasn't bad.
N6697P is a great airplane, just flew it Monday. It’s being well taken care of!
Enjoy this video I had to get my Comanche 400 fix I flew one Lacrosse Wisconsin to Tampa Florida when I was 15 from right seat. N8526P
Great video! Would love to see more profiles of GA Aircraft like this!
Great video. Good overview on the buying process and instrument panel choices.
This is a quality overview! Thanks for the info and tribute to an amazing aircraft.
@Small Town Flyer The Comanche was a sensation at all airshows of its class for a long time and today it continues to favourably impress airmen for its handling qualities.
The ultimate Comanche would have to be the Ravin 500 from South Africa. It's essentially a composite Comanche with a 210kt top end & 185kt cruise. I think they're only available as a kit.
great video!
Great video, love my 180 Comanche. 140 knots on 10GPH and responsive as can be. She likes to be trimmed nose down untill she levels off on her own, instantly picks up another 5-8 knots. Bought mine for probably less than all the speed mods it came with had cost the prior owners. Even better, just found out it was owned by Don Lewis of big cat rescue for many years.
Nice aircraft, im liking the 60’s look . i’d b happy right now with a classic Ercoupe, 😎.
Always loved the Comanche 250 😊
Love my 1961 PA-24-250. Great video
I have a 61 250 as well. Great year.
Good choice of aircraft.
Friend had a 260 a very nice flying plane and a great performer.
Love my 1959 250
Comanches are nice birds however when i moved up my first complex single was a 72 Cessna 210...1450 useful load..mid 160s cruise@ 16ish gph..almost bought a nice 70 but the 72 showed up with the electric powerpack gear and 28 volt electric...loved it..
My favourite GA aircraft ever.
I had a commanche 400 model for about 10 years had the Lycoming 720 8 cylinder... good video
did you ever have to overall the engine? Can’t imagine what that would cost today.
I had a 1960 -180 . Probably the best plane I ever owned. In 07 I did all my commercial instrument training in it and passed
flawlessly . I had no stall warning indicators n my commercial ck ride final landing was a short field . I took that plane n shuttered
It to the ground. Piper engineers told me that the wing design was by far the best in the industry, but was too expensive to
duplicate on the new models after the factory flood
Also, they could build two Arrows for the labor hours of one Comanche.
250+ hp Commanche's are proof of the concept that there's nothing wrong with any light aircraft that another 100 hp wouldn't solve. You can load them full and point them to the sky. Reliable big low tech engine. They've been flown 2000 lb over gross in endurance flights by Max Conrad.
One of the best aircraft ever made. Great for charter, but very good on 600 yard agriculture strips if you knew how to fly them. The PA24 is not a beginners aircraft. Like all aircraft if you abuse it, will bit you. You need an instrument rating to get the best out of the PA24. I had a friend who was a ferry pilot who flew 4 of them from LA to Australia, through the pacific island network.
Nice video. My Dad had a 250, N7694P, then a 400, N8542P, in the 1960's-mid 70's. He loved 'em both and was featured in a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal for Piper. I know the basics of flying but never pursued my license. If you're ever near Rochester or Canandaigua NY, give me a call. I'd love to go for a ride AND I'll top off the tanks too.
Nice video
Hey, at 0:55 that's me!
Great plane!! I have an Arrow. I wish they had put the Dakota engine in that or retract the Dakota.
I have about 150 hours in a 260C. I love the plane.
The best use for the tip tanks is to carry fuel in them, while they do allow you to carry more weight, the weight way out at the tip provides bending relief for the wing spars and also damps roll and turbulence. Mine also had a 15 gallon auxiliary tank outboard of each main, 120 gallons total. At altitude that machine would go a long, long way, very quickly! In my opinion, the best single engine light aircraft ever made. If they re-launched it, I would be first in the queue!
Was surprised when watching the video and my aircraft is at the 5 minute mark…. :-)
Great video and great interview with Mike Ellis. I will go to his channel. I’ve always loved the Comanche but have never owned one. That said, the following comment is to Mike. He mentioned the big 3; Bonanza, Comanche and Mooney. Very disappointed in his as well as the majority of the aviation media in that the Bellanca Viking series is never brought up yet in some aspects is equal to one or all three. I own a 66 260C. This is the model just before the Viking was introduced in late 66. Mine has 1050 useful load which isn’t the best, but isn’t the worst. Purchase price was 27K, low time motor, prop, newer panel, great paint and fabric. Fantastic motor with the Continental IO470 F. If there would be any hit on the Viking would be that it is fabric and the main issue there are potential paint cracks with older paint jobs. The Viking and super Vikings, like all aircraft models continued to improve but certainly had bumps in the road with those improvements. Starting in 1979, their speed improved dramatically and the last few years with the Cont. IO550 and bigger prop is as fast as any of the normally aspirated low wings mentioned. Of course everyone mentions the handling in the air of the Bellanca Viking lineage. The drawbacks are, cabin noise, not as wide as the Comanche but not as cramped as the Mooneys of same era. Really not dogging any of them at all. I did own a Cherokee 180 as my first plane and tend to favor piper airplanes especially with the rock solid Lycoming motors. I just wish folks did not just brush past the Bellanca lineup. It’s a diamond in the rough. Again, enjoyed the video.
The Bellanca Super Viking is a great airplane, but it's not in the same class by virtue of the wooden main spar and fabric covering. The reason the triad is Mooney/Comanche/Bonanza is that they are all metal airplanes.........
I have about 500hrs in single and twin comanches...no complaints.
I’m seriously considering purchasing this type of aircraft.
Do it. You won't be disappointed. Just get a good pre-buy and check out the airworthy Comanche forum.
In the late 1960’s my Ag teacher had one. I flew with him every chance I got. Simply great planes. I still remember the numbers. N7265P. If anyone knows where it ended up, I sure would like to know.
FAA shows it’s based in Claxton, GA
Beautiful airplane. It caught my attention because mine is 6607P but a 1960. I assume a very early 1960.
I own N6789P and it was born on March 10, 1960. Crazy to think they cranked out 182 Comanches in just over two months! I wish manufacturers could still produce those numbers.
During my PPL, trained in a C150, hopped into a Comanche 260B for a flight- a little complex/HP time wouldn't hurt. over 1500ft/minute climb- felt like a rocket ship. Was over my buddy's house in 20 minutes- a near 2 hour drive away (mountains). It was a real eye opener. It does feel a bit dark/less vis than a bonanza- which are generally nicer all around and really nice planes- but Bonanzas are a bit faster and much nicer vs comanches which are a working man's fast plane.
I had the opportunity for 20 hours in a Comanche 250 out of WJF 8218P I hope that its still flying. I want to get a 250 for a IFR platform for wings of hope out of Central Valley to LA or SFO.
Of you’re a Comanche flyer you understand the love!
I remember a English lady flew around the world in one back in the seventies I think.
Central NJ had scads of GA airstrips in the mid 60’s. No more.
Comanche was the best!
BTW: stab was taken from Aztec.
And 400 model ? Working on & retiming mags was near impossible and SO painful on hands.
Im thinking about getting one. Any recommondation to get 1 in Europe?
I sat in a Comanche last week. MyRv6 has more room for 2. Cool plame but not for me being 6’ 4” 240.
Very good aircraft frame cover by zinc chrome. Personally best 260 turbo. This take You ani place any time. Have over half inch ice no problem. Only two serius problem in 250 first myst place controls after all night easily to make mistake. Second gear opening mechanism not many mechanics know how to adjust, and still better to help them any time. To me to short landing gears, not match place to play w cross wind. Generally very nice good w& b and s/ g .good power & performance I lake commanches congratulations have fun !
The 250-260 are the ones you want. The 180 is just a little underpowered. I had a friend on the airport with a 400and you can't do a full power runup the brakes won't hold it and it will get light on one wheel and that is no joke. Wasted more fuel for the slight speed you got.
I heard it was built so the Piper boys could fly to their homes in Florida faster.
"It was early 1964, and Howard “Pug” Piper, one of three sons of founder William T. Piper and the driving force behind so many of Piper’s new-product development efforts, was looking to develop a new single-engine airplane. It would climb into the flight levels without turbocharging and transit the distance between Lock Haven and the new production facility in Vero Beach at great speed. An improved variant of the Piper Comanche, which had debuted under his guidance in 1958, seemed the perfect candidate. Piper Aircraft, famous for Cubs, Tri Pacers and, more recently, the all-metal Cherokee, had a real success with this handsome retractable-gear, four-place beauty. However, with only 180 or 250 horsepower currently on hand, more ponies were needed under the hood to turn up the wick on the speedometer. " From 2021 Pane and Pilot magazine article.
Then there's the 400. Never got to fly one. Dahhhhhmn.
🤩🙏🙏🙏✈✈✈✈✈✈amen
How did he get a 1967 172 with 150 hp lycoming when Cessna didn't switch until 1968? Faulty memory, perhaps?
Perhaps it was a '68...no matter it's not a big deal
Cuanto cuesta una avioneta
When I was a teen in the 70s my pilot mentor had a Comamche N6110P. Huge money hog. Electric sys went out one night. Not fun.
why Piper doesn't produce more Comanche?
"Standard 14,995 dollars, what year are we living in now?"
Equivalent to 130,000 usd now. Now look at a new cirrus
If you ever want to sell it let me know
I have flown Comanche during my IR and I never enjoyed it
No thank you, I grew up in pipers, I like the modern stuff now, like the Vl3 Evaluation.
Xe
Only airplane I ever rountinely rounded out on the nose gear. I found very difficuld to break that bad habit. 180 model Not a great plane Just OK. N6329P
@0:24 That was one of the worst landings... never EVER touch down on the nose strut first....
Right main was first.
I wonder how many rich folks lose their lives in private planes. Private planes, the motorcycle of the rich.
These old model-As are not better than ever, they are old, slow, draggy, and a little dangerous.
Another ugly aircraft on my list, mooney number one, piper Comanche number two.
Yup. The older guys. They’re always there. Most are really knowledge. I didn’t know you needed high perf rating it a retractable rating.
It’s a has a constant speed prop
That must be the high performance part. But retractable. I had no idea.
Commanche is a beautiful plane for people who want to go on adventures. Exactly. It’s your own little airliner. And it goes up in value. Or holds. They’re built like Toyotas. Absolute quality and attention to detail.
Ours had very few and only minor failures in flight. Like the starter gear fel back on the crank gear and just caught it enough to send a shower of sparks over the windscreen It must have looked like ww2 from outside the plane but it was fine. Finished the whole flight as planned. Fixed the problem. My dad was a very sharp skilled private pilot with full ratings including instrument flight ratings. He out in auto pilot I remember I was a kid. He showed me how it worked. You could turn the plane using a little knob
It blew my mind. This is well before glass cockpits. GPS. And internet. This was real flying and you had to apply things you learned in your original private pilot flight abd ground training .
My dad never made a mistake.
Well, maybe a few little ones taxiiing lol. But nothing serious.