Suspension tuning! My favorite part. I used to be more against or dismissive of other shock angles than the ones that i prefer. Nowadays I'm much more accepting because different tuning is needed for different applications and preference like driving style. One thing about the angle, you gotta take into account that it changes as the shock compresses and depending on the length of the link. So a bit smaller of an angle than simply 90° from the link works out throughout the movement as closer to 90°. I usually isolate the movement to a mid-travel range (i mean at the center midway point of the shock movement limit), with a more upright position than laid down. Thanks for the video, I'm loving these!
Yep, easy, peasy (not really), lol. Well done, most people don't understand that a simple change can affect so many variables. Tuning doesn't need to be the compromise people often claim it is, if you know how to mitigate the effects. One of my favorite videos you have put out. 👍
Crazy how one notch on a lot of chassis can change so much! For me the more angle the better but I’m an lcg sporty moa guy….pinion movement and links so involved. Gonna have to check the math version.
As someone that is relatively new to the hobby, your videos have been amazing in helping me tune my setups. Thank you for being so thorough and clear. Love your content.
Something that I thought of, after our chat about 1/24th crawlers and the need(or not) of soft springs, no springs or no shocks at all: I've been wondering if the shocks could be replaced by something like the 'flex blades' that came out a while ago? It would be interesting to know if that scissor style pivot could replace shocks completely and more so, be designed and mounted in such a way that it would maximize the front and/or rear end from unloading on steep angles. Might need one arm longer than the other, a bunch of playing around with fore and aft mounting position, etc. Again, just wanted to throw it at you for consideration and get your initial thoughts. I'll add it to my 'things to try' list, once I get the use of my hands back. Thanks! Bert the Weldor
@@BoomslangSuss Sorry, yeah, bit vague! :D Replace the shocks on mini crawlers/1/24th with a linkage. Pivot in the middle of two little pieces ('arms') of carb. fiber or plastic. One end of one piece attaches to the chassis/rails. The end of the other piece attaches to the shock mount, on the axle. Both still mounted via pivot balls. With the pivot in the middle, the "link" opens, like scissors, when the axle drops away from the chassis, closes when the chassis settles down closest to the axle. It would sort of be/act like running shocks without springs (full droop). It would just replace the shocks. Less weight, less space taken up, possibly allow more mounting location options. Additionally, with some playing around with each 'arm' length, orientation, mounting angle, etc, the thought being that this, in place of shocks, may be able to be set up so it delays the front or back end from unloading on steep up/down hills. Maybe getting an extra few degrees of incline before the front end lets go and falls over backwards. Still playing with it in my head until my hands heal enough to use. Just thought I'd throw it out there for you to shoot holes through or consider it a possible good theory since you've got WAY more experience than I'll ever have! :D Thanks again and have a good one! Bert the Weldor
Laying the shock down will make the suspensions LESS progressive, as more lay down shock will get even more lay down when suspension compress, hense has less force, less progressive.
I follow your rational but you’re looking at it backwards. Progression is determined by the shock angle to the swing arm (not the chassis) and the shock moves toward 90deg (or less laid down) as the suspension compresses. More progressive as the shock compresses because the angle to the swing arm changes far more rapidly than the angle to the chassis.
Suspension tuning! My favorite part.
I used to be more against or dismissive of other shock angles than the ones that i prefer.
Nowadays I'm much more accepting because different tuning is needed for different applications and preference like driving style.
One thing about the angle, you gotta take into account that it changes as the shock compresses and depending on the length of the link.
So a bit smaller of an angle than simply 90° from the link works out throughout the movement as closer to 90°.
I usually isolate the movement to a mid-travel range (i mean at the center midway point of the shock movement limit), with a more upright position than laid down.
Thanks for the video, I'm loving these!
All very true. Your 90 deg approach should be very predictable. I like it.
I love your shirt! Saw them live many years ago… such a good show
Those 2 guys make a lot of sound!
Yep, easy, peasy (not really), lol. Well done, most people don't understand that a simple change can affect so many variables. Tuning doesn't need to be the compromise people often claim it is, if you know how to mitigate the effects. One of my favorite videos you have put out. 👍
Absolutely! Thanks for the kind words too.
I can't wait for you to 😢do a video on full droup setups
I’m working on spring rate, oil weight and a full droop tuning guide which no one has done to my knowledge. Stay tuned.
@BoomslangSuss nope that's why I'm asking tx
Great video, smart tuning tips! One adjustment at a time is crucial.
Tire foams or inserts are another misunderstood component.
Great point! When I wrap my head around HOW to EXPLAIN tire inserts in a SIMPLE manner, I'd like to produce a video.
Crazy how one notch on a lot of chassis can change so much! For me the more angle the better but I’m an lcg sporty moa guy….pinion movement and links so involved.
Gonna have to check the math version.
I like low angle too for clearance and low CG. It’s fine as long as you know how to tune for it.
Very useful, as always.
Glad you think so!
As someone that is relatively new to the hobby, your videos have been amazing in helping me tune my setups. Thank you for being so thorough and clear. Love your content.
Very much appreciated! Thank you.
Very nice 👍
Thank you 👍
Something that I thought of, after our chat about 1/24th crawlers and the need(or not) of soft springs, no springs or no shocks at all: I've been wondering if the shocks could be replaced by something like the 'flex blades' that came out a while ago? It would be interesting to know if that scissor style pivot could replace shocks completely and more so, be designed and mounted in such a way that it would maximize the front and/or rear end from unloading on steep angles. Might need one arm longer than the other, a bunch of playing around with fore and aft mounting position, etc.
Again, just wanted to throw it at you for consideration and get your initial thoughts. I'll add it to my 'things to try' list, once I get the use of my hands back.
Thanks!
Bert the Weldor
I can’t visualize what you mean by scissor links. But I think there are quite a few great alternatives to four bar linkages and shocks.
@@BoomslangSuss Sorry, yeah, bit vague! :D
Replace the shocks on mini crawlers/1/24th with a linkage. Pivot in the middle of two little pieces ('arms') of carb. fiber or plastic. One end of one piece attaches to the chassis/rails. The end of the other piece attaches to the shock mount, on the axle. Both still mounted via pivot balls. With the pivot in the middle, the "link" opens, like scissors, when the axle drops away from the chassis, closes when the chassis settles down closest to the axle. It would sort of be/act like running shocks without springs (full droop). It would just replace the shocks. Less weight, less space taken up, possibly allow more mounting location options.
Additionally, with some playing around with each 'arm' length, orientation, mounting angle, etc, the thought being that this, in place of shocks, may be able to be set up so it delays the front or back end from unloading on steep up/down hills. Maybe getting an extra few degrees of incline before the front end lets go and falls over backwards. Still playing with it in my head until my hands heal enough to use. Just thought I'd throw it out there for you to shoot holes through or consider it a possible good theory since you've got WAY more experience than I'll ever have! :D
Thanks again and have a good one!
Bert the Weldor
Laying the shock down will make the suspensions LESS progressive, as more lay down shock will get even more lay down when suspension compress, hense has less force, less progressive.
I follow your rational but you’re looking at it backwards. Progression is determined by the shock angle to the swing arm (not the chassis) and the shock moves toward 90deg (or less laid down) as the suspension compresses. More progressive as the shock compresses because the angle to the swing arm changes far more rapidly than the angle to the chassis.
"NO Math"...lol🤣