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I think it is highly unlikely that Gandalf was referring to Narya when he faced Durin's Bane - to tell a servant of Morgoth who may or may not also be in league with Sauron, that he was carrying one of the Three would be most unwise. What I think Gandalf was doing on the bridge was to tell the balrog that he, too, was a Maia and that the balrog's victory was not an inevitability. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire" almost certainly refers to the Flame Imperishable of Iluvatar more than to Narya. It's less clear what the "wielder of the Flame of Anor" means, but "anor" refers to the sun. Probably it means again that he is a servant of the Valar.
As others have said, as I understand it, all true power over the world, the power over life and the design of eru ilúvatar are tied into what the Secret Fire/ Flame Imperishable is.
Correct, Gandalf was stating the authority from which his power flowed from that of Eru-Iluvatar with the Secret Fire" and the Valar with "Flame of Anor" whereas the Flame of Uden was a reference to Morgoth whom the Balrog served. The Valar where the servants of Eru who ruled Middle Earth and Eru-Iluvatar is the creator God in Tolkien's universe. Morgoth is the fallen Valar whom Sauron and the Balrog were servants to.
And it should be added that Narya cannot in any way be used as a weapon. The three elven rings can only heal and increase strength and knowledge among people, never be used against anyone in battle.
I like how you said that the rings of power had more passive than active abilities. It’s not something I had really been able to understand until you said it. Very cool.
You can also see the impact of Gandalf's ring after he falls in Khazad-dum, as the entire fellowship is immediately struck with despair. The effects of Narya had vanished with Gandalf and all the courage and hope he inspired had gone with him
I'm amazed and impressed Jackson had the detail of the ring appearing. Thank goodness Rings of Power also followed Tolkien so closely, that is why everyone loves it and it's making so much money.
There are different interpretations of Gandalf's words to the Balrog on the bridge. "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor". The one you mention is one, but I'm leaning towards the other. And it is that Narya has nothing to do with the words. Instead, it is the secret fire of Eru Ilúvatar that Gandalf refers to, i.e. the secret fire of creation. And it can also be called "The flame of Anor". The name is obscure, but is believed to refer to the sun. And it should be added that Narya cannot in any way be used as a weapon. The three elven rings can only heal and increase strength and knowledge among people, never be used against anyone in battle.
In a video by MSNBC about JD Vance, within the last day, she calls LOTR and Narya far right! "I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm."
There's a question that's bugged me for a long time about these rings. Sauron himself is able to perceive the wearer of all the other rings of power. Neither Frodo or Bilbo would have been sophisticated enough in to use the ring that way. The nine are immediately aware when Frodo puts on the ring. They perceive Frodo and the ring. The question is, do those wearing the other three also immediately perceive the ring has been put on in the same way the Nine do? And what could that mean for how certain parts of the story unfold? It would mean all three would on some level be aware Gollum had found it and when he used it. Should have been aware it changed hands to Bilbo. And when used by Frodo. Elrond may have been aware of Frodo in Bree and his injury at Weathertop. Do you think those wearing the Three rings would have had a similar perception of the ring as the Nine did? Could it have been this connection between the rings that alllowed Gandalf to help Frodo after Boromir had attempted to steal it?
Great question! The simple answer to why the three Elven ring bearers didn’t sense the One Ring is because none of the ring bearers after Sauron were able to use it in that way. It’s almost like one of the abilities of the ring is to reach out and communicate with the other rings, but it isn’t *automatic*. The wearer of the One Ring has to try to do it themselves. Gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo did not know how to do this. Plus, all of them only used the ring sporadically, whereas Sauron wore it 24/7. The reason the Nine could sense Frodo is because by the time Frodo got it, they had regained their strength, and all of their will was bent towards finding the One Ring. They were still weak when Gollum and Bilbo had the ring. And the three elven ring bearers did not bend their will towards finding the ring previously because if they had, the rings temptation and draw would have consumed them. Best to just leave it lost and be content.
@@factorfantasyweekly There is some indication that Gandalf did know that Frodo had put on the Ring at Amon Hen. Sauron perceived Frodo's gaze and was about to pinpoint his location precisely and then his attention was diverted at the last minute (before Frodo took it off). Although Frodo didn't know it, Gandalf as the newly-returned Gandalf the White was nmot only aware of Frodo's act but psychically contended with Sauron to prevent the latter from discovering exactly where Frodo was. Not only that but there was the "Fool take it off!" mental message that was almost certainly from Gandalf to Frodo. From the Two Towers, Chapter 5; The White Rider: - 'Yes,' said Gandalf, 'that was Gwaihir the Windlord, who rescued me from Orthanc. I sent him before me to watch the River and gather tidings. His sight is keen, but he cannot see all that passes under hill and tree. Some things he has seen, and others I have seen myself. The Ring now has passed beyond my help, or the help of any of the Company that set out from Rivendell. Very nearly it was revealed to the Enemy, but it escaped. I had some part in that: for I sat in a high place, and I strove with the Dark Tower; and the Shadow passed. Then I was weary, very weary; and I walked long in dark thought.' 'Then you know about Frodo!' said Gimli. 'How do things go with him?' 'I cannot say. He was saved from a great peril, but many lie before him still. He resolved to go alone to Mordor, and he set out: that is all that I can say.' and from Fellowship, Chapter 10- The breaking of the Fellowship: - And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood. He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring! The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger. He was kneeling in clear sunlight before the high seat. A black shadow seemed to pass like an arm above him; it missed Amon Hen and groped out west, and faded. Then all the sky was clean and blue and birds sang in every tree.
The color of the Istari's capes are not really a matter of role and purspose in the first place, but of one god's allegiance to. Which makes Gandalf the White a more meaningfull thing. Nevertheless the white was the color of Manwë, king of the Valar.
Gandalf was given Cirdan's ring upon arriving in Middle Earth cause he was sent to play an active role in the 3rd age while Cirdan was chilling and making ships LOL
Everything except the first two of the three. Galadriel recieved the ring of adamant which was the ring of AIR, the power of preservation, as you said, just wrong element. Elrond recieved the blue ring, the ring of WATER, which was the power that made the river overwhelm the Ringraiths. Elrond admitted that the river sometimes answered him in need, but did not reveal that that was because of the blue ring, because the disposition of the three was still a secret. Galadriel reveals to Frodo that she has one of the three, but that was because he was a ringbearer. The story does not reveal the whereabouts of the whole Three until after the One has been destroyed. At least the blue and read ring also had actual weaponizeable tactical power as is shown in the books (and probably the adamant ring as well, though we don't see that aspect of it). The water ring, as noted, was used to stop the Ringwraiths. In both The Hobbit and LOTR, Gandalf routs wargs with magical fire. In the Hobbit, he flares, then extinguishes the torches of the Goblins in their great hall. In LOTR, they call upon Gandalf to light a fire in the Pass of Caradras, but they had used up the fuel they carried and there was no more. It is likely that Gandalf's power over fire made his fireworks especially impressive, even though his fireworks were made by the clever handed dwarves (to his specifications).
Hmm, I don't recall exactly, but most of the references I can see online refer to Vilya as being of the Air and Nenya as being of the Water. That would make a degree of sense, as Vilya was held to be the mightiest of the Three and the element is of course Manwe's domain.
I had to pull up my copy of the silmarillion for this "now these were the Three that had been made, and they possessed the greatest of powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire." Narya ring of Fire Nenya ring of Water Vilya ring of Air 😊
You're wrong about the colour of the rings. Vilya is the blue ring, the ring of air and that is the ring that passed to elrond. Nenya is the ring of water and belongs to Galadriel. The video is correct
He actually did know that Gandalf had the ring: “And the Grey Messenger [Gandalf] took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger [Saruman] (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest.” From the Unfinished Tales
@@factorfantasyweekly I agree with you that Saruman did in fact know that Gandalf had the ring, but I thought that Unfinished Tales was considered "non-canon" since it contains many writings that contradict that the finished lore?
It’s just one of those things that you have to read with the thought that not everything is going to be 100% factual. But just because some isn’t aligned with the lore doesn’t mean the entire thing is invalid. As far as I know, there’s nothing in the LOTR, Silmarillion, or other writings that would contradict with Saruman knowing about the rings. Sadly we’ll never know for sure as Tolkien is no longer with us.
@@factorfantasyweekly exactly, as a writer myself I have many abandoned plotpoints, and as time passes with new iterations before publishing, those dropped plotlines can become counter to final timeline. like Bob goes to bakery before saving the world, but I decide to give him a love interest, a nurse, who he meets because he's gluten intolerant and villain hit him with a baguette. Therefore I abandon bakery visit subplot because he knew as a child he had celiac disease.
I read through LotR when I was afronted by a change that the movie made. Shadowfax. Is black. So black he gleams silver in the moonlight like a panther does. All the great horses of Rohan were black. They were plundered by Sauron to serve as mounts for the Nazgul. Nothing but the best horses. No one has seen horses beyter than these... White horses are easier yo film than black. And white horses serve PJ. But it is not right.
Want to get into the Lord of the Rings for the first time OR simply rediscover Middle Earth in a whole new way? 📖 Claim Andy Serkis’ narration of “The Fellowship of the Ring” on Audible *for FREE with my code:* www.audibletrial.com/factorfantasyfellowship 👈 Every free trial supports the channel!
I see your point but people feel that way when we loose friends
good summary, well done.
you deserve more views
I think it is highly unlikely that Gandalf was referring to Narya when he faced Durin's Bane - to tell a servant of Morgoth who may or may not also be in league with Sauron, that he was carrying one of the Three would be most unwise.
What I think Gandalf was doing on the bridge was to tell the balrog that he, too, was a Maia and that the balrog's victory was not an inevitability. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire" almost certainly refers to the Flame Imperishable of Iluvatar more than to Narya. It's less clear what the "wielder of the Flame of Anor" means, but "anor" refers to the sun. Probably it means again that he is a servant of the Valar.
Agreed
Can confirm, the Flame Imperishable is explicitly referred to the Secret Fire in the Silmarillion.
As others have said, as I understand it, all true power over the world, the power over life and the design of eru ilúvatar are tied into what the Secret Fire/ Flame Imperishable is.
Correct, Gandalf was stating the authority from which his power flowed from that of Eru-Iluvatar with the Secret Fire" and the Valar with "Flame of Anor" whereas the Flame of Uden was a reference to Morgoth whom the Balrog served. The Valar where the servants of Eru who ruled Middle Earth and Eru-Iluvatar is the creator God in Tolkien's universe. Morgoth is the fallen Valar whom Sauron and the Balrog were servants to.
And it should be added that Narya cannot in any way be used as a weapon. The three elven rings can only heal and increase strength and knowledge among people, never be used against anyone in battle.
I like how you said that the rings of power had more passive than active abilities. It’s not something I had really been able to understand until you said it. Very cool.
Lol. I always joke that Gandalf carried the ring of motivational speaking. Seems he mostly motivated others to go beyond their limits
You can also see the impact of Gandalf's ring after he falls in Khazad-dum, as the entire fellowship is immediately struck with despair. The effects of Narya had vanished with Gandalf and all the courage and hope he inspired had gone with him
I'm amazed and impressed Jackson had the detail of the ring appearing. Thank goodness Rings of Power also followed Tolkien so closely, that is why everyone loves it and it's making so much money.
Bahahahahhahahahaha
There are different interpretations of Gandalf's words to the Balrog on the bridge. "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor". The one you mention is one, but I'm leaning towards the other. And it is that Narya has nothing to do with the words. Instead, it is the secret fire of Eru Ilúvatar that Gandalf refers to, i.e. the secret fire of creation. And it can also be called "The flame of Anor". The name is obscure, but is believed to refer to the sun.
And it should be added that Narya cannot in any way be used as a weapon. The three elven rings can only heal and increase strength and knowledge among people, never be used against anyone in battle.
In a video by MSNBC about JD Vance, within the last day, she calls LOTR and Narya far right!
"I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm."
An epilepsy warning of flashing lights would do wonders.
Well thought out and well said!
There's a question that's bugged me for a long time about these rings.
Sauron himself is able to perceive the wearer of all the other rings of power. Neither Frodo or Bilbo would have been sophisticated enough in to use the ring that way. The nine are immediately aware when Frodo puts on the ring. They perceive Frodo and the ring. The question is, do those wearing the other three also immediately perceive the ring has been put on in the same way the Nine do? And what could that mean for how certain parts of the story unfold?
It would mean all three would on some level be aware Gollum had found it and when he used it. Should have been aware it changed hands to Bilbo. And when used by Frodo. Elrond may have been aware of Frodo in Bree and his injury at Weathertop.
Do you think those wearing the Three rings would have had a similar perception of the ring as the Nine did? Could it have been this connection between the rings that alllowed Gandalf to help Frodo after Boromir had attempted to steal it?
Great question! The simple answer to why the three Elven ring bearers didn’t sense the One Ring is because none of the ring bearers after Sauron were able to use it in that way. It’s almost like one of the abilities of the ring is to reach out and communicate with the other rings, but it isn’t *automatic*. The wearer of the One Ring has to try to do it themselves. Gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo did not know how to do this. Plus, all of them only used the ring sporadically, whereas Sauron wore it 24/7.
The reason the Nine could sense Frodo is because by the time Frodo got it, they had regained their strength, and all of their will was bent towards finding the One Ring. They were still weak when Gollum and Bilbo had the ring. And the three elven ring bearers did not bend their will towards finding the ring previously because if they had, the rings temptation and draw would have consumed them. Best to just leave it lost and be content.
@@factorfantasyweekly There is some indication that Gandalf did know that Frodo had put on the Ring at Amon Hen. Sauron perceived Frodo's gaze and was about to pinpoint his location precisely and then his attention was diverted at the last minute (before Frodo took it off). Although Frodo didn't know it, Gandalf as the newly-returned Gandalf the White was nmot only aware of Frodo's act but psychically contended with Sauron to prevent the latter from discovering exactly where Frodo was. Not only that but there was the "Fool take it off!" mental message that was almost certainly from Gandalf to Frodo.
From the Two Towers, Chapter 5; The White Rider: -
'Yes,' said Gandalf, 'that was Gwaihir the Windlord, who rescued me from Orthanc. I sent him before me to watch the River and gather tidings. His sight is keen, but he cannot see all that passes under hill and tree. Some things he has seen, and others I have seen myself. The Ring now has passed beyond my help, or the help of any of the Company that set out from Rivendell. Very nearly it was revealed to the Enemy, but it escaped. I had some part in that: for I sat in a high place, and I strove with the Dark Tower; and the Shadow passed. Then I was weary, very weary; and I walked long in dark thought.'
'Then you know about Frodo!' said Gimli. 'How do things go with him?'
'I cannot say. He was saved from a great peril, but many lie before him still. He resolved to go alone to Mordor, and he set out: that is all that I can say.'
and from Fellowship, Chapter 10- The breaking of the Fellowship: -
And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood.
He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!
The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger. He was kneeling in clear sunlight before the high seat. A black shadow seemed to pass like an arm above him; it missed Amon Hen and groped out west, and faded. Then all the sky was clean and blue and birds sang in every tree.
The color of the Istari's capes are not really a matter of role and purspose in the first place, but of one god's allegiance to. Which makes Gandalf the White a more meaningfull thing. Nevertheless the white was the color of Manwë, king of the Valar.
Yes, and that will probably take up a whole video by itself in the future! It’s super interesting.
Gandalf was given Cirdan's ring upon arriving in Middle Earth cause he was sent to play an active role in the 3rd age while Cirdan was chilling and making ships LOL
Everything except the first two of the three. Galadriel recieved the ring of adamant which was the ring of AIR, the power of preservation, as you said, just wrong element. Elrond recieved the blue ring, the ring of WATER, which was the power that made the river overwhelm the Ringraiths. Elrond admitted that the river sometimes answered him in need, but did not reveal that that was because of the blue ring, because the disposition of the three was still a secret. Galadriel reveals to Frodo that she has one of the three, but that was because he was a ringbearer. The story does not reveal the whereabouts of the whole Three until after the One has been destroyed.
At least the blue and read ring also had actual weaponizeable tactical power as is shown in the books (and probably the adamant ring as well, though we don't see that aspect of it). The water ring, as noted, was used to stop the Ringwraiths. In both The Hobbit and LOTR, Gandalf routs wargs with magical fire. In
the Hobbit, he flares, then extinguishes the torches of the Goblins in their great hall. In LOTR, they call upon Gandalf to light a fire in the Pass of Caradras, but they had used up the fuel they carried and there was no more. It is likely that Gandalf's power over fire made his fireworks especially impressive, even though his fireworks were made by the clever handed dwarves (to his specifications).
Hmm, I don't recall exactly, but most of the references I can see online refer to Vilya as being of the Air and Nenya as being of the Water. That would make a degree of sense, as Vilya was held to be the mightiest of the Three and the element is of course Manwe's domain.
I’ve always heard that Vilya is the ring of air
In the book (Fellowship of the Ring) it was Gandalf who conjured the water horses. That part was changed in the movie.
I had to pull up my copy of the silmarillion for this "now these were the Three that had been made, and they possessed the greatest of powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire."
Narya ring of Fire
Nenya ring of Water
Vilya ring of Air
😊
You're wrong about the colour of the rings. Vilya is the blue ring, the ring of air and that is the ring that passed to elrond. Nenya is the ring of water and belongs to Galadriel. The video is correct
Man, do you think Tolkien had thought of all that when he wrote it? Ah ah
Nice vid
How is it Saruman didn't know Gandalf had the ring?
He actually did know that Gandalf had the ring:
“And the Grey Messenger [Gandalf] took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger [Saruman] (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest.”
From the Unfinished Tales
@@factorfantasyweekly Thanks for explaining that. I had not read the Unfinished Tales.
@@factorfantasyweekly I agree with you that Saruman did in fact know that Gandalf had the ring, but I thought that Unfinished Tales was considered "non-canon" since it contains many writings that contradict that the finished lore?
It’s just one of those things that you have to read with the thought that not everything is going to be 100% factual. But just because some isn’t aligned with the lore doesn’t mean the entire thing is invalid. As far as I know, there’s nothing in the LOTR, Silmarillion, or other writings that would contradict with Saruman knowing about the rings. Sadly we’ll never know for sure as Tolkien is no longer with us.
@@factorfantasyweekly exactly, as a writer myself I have many abandoned plotpoints, and as time passes with new iterations before publishing, those dropped plotlines can become counter to final timeline.
like Bob goes to bakery before saving the world, but I decide to give him a love interest, a nurse, who he meets because he's gluten intolerant and villain hit him with a baguette.
Therefore I abandon bakery visit subplot because he knew as a child he had celiac disease.
😍✅
Wow I'm shocked that the actual Gandolf found this video on youtube. Cool to meet you, sir.
I read through LotR when I was afronted by a change that the movie made. Shadowfax. Is black. So black he gleams silver in the moonlight like a panther does. All the great horses of Rohan were black. They were plundered by Sauron to serve as mounts for the Nazgul. Nothing but the best horses. No one has seen horses beyter than these...
White horses are easier yo film than black. And white horses serve PJ. But it is not right.