Marin is Not from Koholint Island (Zelda Theory)
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Marin and Malon share incredible similarities despite being from two different Zelda games. Could it be that they share something more in common with each other? Tune in to my newest Link's Awakening theory and let's find out together!
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#Zelda #LinksAwakening #Nintendo
links awakening nintendo switch e3 2019 legend of zelda breath of the wild sequel trailer analysis theory lore marin Marin tarin talon ocarina of time wind waker skyward sword koholint island wind fish ballad theme - Ігри
What's your favorite Marin moment?
EDIT: Hey guys, really loving all the comments! I wanted to point out due to all the comments saying the same thing that yes, I do realize Link's Awakening ('93) was released five years before Ocarina of Time ('98). I'm strictly speculating lore/timeline wise in which Ocarina takes place before Link's Awakening. Also, this theory was apparently made canon in Hyrule Historia page 102. The more you know!
MaskedNintendoBandit When she encouraged Link to kill those cuccos-
Or maybe something less creepy
When they’re watchin the waves
When her wish was granted on the perfect playthrough I didn't get.
Well, I really love all Marín's moments with Link, but I like the most when they are together, and a mouse took pictures of them, letting me have a Closer approch to the couple. Changing the topic, according with the Hyrule timeline, introduced in Hyrule history, Malon appears in Oracle of Season; this game is before Links awekening in the Timeline. So, may be that is why Marín have kind of similarities. Obviously, I know LA was realese first. Even though, I enjoy more your theory😁. Luck bro🖒
The entire side quest. Hands down.
I believe that Marin is Link's secret desire to settle down with a cute and caring girl, or to lead a simpler life, instead of being bound to the fate of Hyrule. This is something I believe all Links feel from time to time, but due to their duties to the kingdom, they are kept away from a normal life. This is why Link dreams of Marin, kinda like his dream girl. He dreams for a normal life.
Craftmastr C-223 aww now i feel bad for him
That theory does have some merit, heck the dialogue box even states "is this your big chance?" (Or something along those lines) when you "receive a Marin".
Craftmastr C-223
Yeah, hi, I’d like to ask why the hell your channel isn’t a theory channel. That theory is great! You’d go far as a theorist, I’m sure of it.
Don’t we all
If he has descendants, then he must actually do the family thing at some point
Your theory is canon, actually! Hyrule Historia confirmed that Marin and Tarin came from memories of Malon and Talon from when Link met their Oracle series incarnations. On the other hand, Malon and Talon were designed and characterized specifically to remind the players of Marin and Tarin.
Really?:o And then Nintendo goes and puts LA before Oracles for some unexplained reason? Well, that's stupid. But thanks for the info:)
@@puline397
Yes too bad Nintendo splitted the Oracle series from Alttp & LA.
The reason is, they build up their whole timeline of the games soletude by Ganons appearances. And they had second thought about Ganons resurection in the combined story of the two oracle games with Ganon in Alttp. :-/
I prefer to connect the games in the continuity of Links journeys and geography developments of Hyrule by historical events. The idea of telling the story of where Link were before the events of LA was just perfect!
@@puline397 I think they'll change the timeline back someday, as it makes a lot more sense when the Oracle games are prequels. I think Nintendo made the change solely to dispel rumors that Link died at sea at the end of Link's Awakening.
@@Smfsableye We know Link didn't die at sea though, because this Link returns as an old man in A Link Between Worlds, where he pits his descendant against Shadow Links and eventually faces off against him.
@@ErikDaVinci thanks Nintendo! Now I will never gift a third house to the Minish Cap oracles!
Marin inspired the creators of the Zelda series and they had her come back as Malon in Ocarina of Time. It is a nod to Links Awakening.
I think it makes more sense that Marin wished for a second chance rather than to become a literal seagull, considering she refuses to tell you what she wished for despite explaining to Link what she would do if she was a seagull. In the original she 'escapes' the island quite literally, with wings.
Then in DX and later it was changed to a seagull for some reason.
@@Tephnos No she didn't escape the island.
In the original you see Marin with wings (sort of like an angel) along with seagull sound effects implying that she either got her wish where she could fly away like a seagull, or it was just a joke on the developers part since it was very quick during the ending screen while in DX more effort was done to imply that Marin spiritually lived on as a seagull.
Yes it looks very familiar they came back to the ocarina of time.
When Marin was just sweetly singing, then the island and she disappeared....
*Broke me damnit* 😭😭
There's a secret if you beat the game with no deaths
I-It's my own fault... I scrolled down... I shouldn't have clicked on the video... my first 2D Zelda game... spoiled for me. 😊🙂😌😐😔😞😣😖😭
LOVECRAFTIAN DREAM BAE! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Thanos snapped
Listen to the secret ending. Goddamn, after hearing that for the first time, I couldn’t stop listening to it, for some reason. And I cried.
Get rick rolled
Theoricaly she didn't disappear... She Is still inside Link's mind, as we said she doesn't come from the Dreamer Fish, so She can't be cancelled by it, because It didn't made her, It Just made her a phisical form
I thought Marin was a look-alike of zelda from the original game, hence why link mistakes her as zelda when he wakes up
Tasha TasisArt
She is. Marin looks like Zelda (with strawberry blonde/pale ginger hair), confirmed with the “Zelda? I’m not Zelda. You must still be woozy. My name’s Marin,” bit of dialogue.
Malon (and Talon and Indigo) are then based off of Marin (Tarin and the Cucco House Guy, who are roughly based off of Mario&Luigi).
Heck. In the Oracles Game? Marin and Zelda even share the same sprite, with the official art of that Zelda having blonde hair with a bit of a reddish hue to it. (Although not as much as, say, BotW/Sequel Zelda...who definitely has strawberry blonde hair.) And Malon actually shows up in Oracle of Seasons as part of the trading sequence (as does her dad, he kinda blocks the path to an optional area), but Malon doesn’t share sprites (or hair color) with Marin or Zelda. (Her hair’s actually the Deep Red Din has, and Din’s a deep ginger in her artwork. And several in Labrynna have Red Hair...which Marin and Zelda just...don’t. Theirs is more of a golden orange.)
So...Marin could be Zelda’s twin or sister. Malon is a really bad discount Marin.
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Personally? LA fits the best as BotW Link’s Resurrection Shrine Dream, considering just how many bones they specifically share, including Zelda/Marin’s voices being the first&last thing Link hears entering/exiting the Shrine/entering&leaving the Dream, complete with even water being involved. Koholint even plays like a fever or comatose dream, with the Owl (associated with Wisdom aka the Sheikah and others affiliated with Zelda, Hylia, and Nayru) and Marin/Zelda being the only ones trying to encourage Link to Wake Up (while Marin says “don’t forget me” which BotW Zelda shares the same wish).
And the surest way to keep a mind intact is to keep it Active-aka Dream. (Link still suffered some brain damage, although he can slowly recall some and form new memories, so not nearly as bad as it could’ve been. He also nearly didn’t get placed in the Shine in time (oh, also during a nasty storm, like LA’s Intro), with him nearly dying in the Dream at several points (common theme in fever&comatose dreams, at least as a fictional trope.)
Heck. You can even see the skeleton of the Windfish (and other leviathans), so pretty much confirmation that the Windfish was a part of the Hyrulian Mythos/Pantheon for his brain to draw on. And you collect the Siren Instruments to Wake...at the cost of being the catalyst for Doomsday. Which, they collected the Beasts and Guardians only for Hyrule to ultimately fall...so there’s even a parallel for the moral dilemma. (As well as Marin hypotherically having the power to wake the Windfish herself/Zelda’s arc of trying to tap into her Hylia-lineage based powers)
And, well...Ballad of the Windfish plays for the Ruined Castle (with Zelda’s, Link’s, and Ganondorf’s Themes all mixed in.) And...in addition to the Malice actually not being Ganondorf at all (but arguably Demise’s Essence running amok), it behaves eerily similar to the Final Nightmares Link faces down Inside The Egg in LA
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So...yeah. I prefer THAT placement vs the “timelines”. (Which have other weirdness. Liiike, uh, the MM/FS/FSA games just don’t fit where they’re placed whatsoever? Every game should spawn a “fallen” version, so back off OoT? You weren’t even a twinkle in your makers’ eyes yet when the majority of those games were developed?) Plus, it’s not unheard of for games to be spawned “out of order”/drawing different inspirations from past games than originally intended? Yeah. Forget the timelines. They’re WoG at best, complete reconnable trash at worst.
And LA Link just never felt like LttP Link to me (aside from Nightmare Aghnahim (forgive the misspelling), but several antagonists/characters reoccur with No Relation to others of the same name), or really much like the Oracles Link despite having the same artstyle for the pixelart (aka, reusing the GBC engine with brighter colors. But, same engine, same system. Capcom just wanted MOAR Color!)...and certainly NOT where the “timeline” would place it (ahem. After LA vs Before, which LA’s True Ending suggested After with putting in the exact same boat as LA’s Intro for sailing BACK to Hyrule. But how Oracles&LttP Events would even connect is...a massive stretch? Especially with how the Triforce behaves in Oracles’ Intros?)
(So don’t bother tagging me about the timeline. Don’t care, only even digressed about it at all to say “hey look at this for LA&BotW”/I Don’t Care About The Timelines just to get it over with when LA&BotW theoretical meta are much more interesting...buuut the “timelines” are the elephant in the room)
@@anonymousfellow8879 wow its nice to see someone so passionate about the game! I agree with you. The timeline has its faults as you mentioned but you have to remember that the games weren't made in that 'order' and just 'arranged' in a way nintendo thought fit together. LA's Marin was based off of zelda, like you mentioned with the quote. Why? Well... Because it's a dream. Marin resembles zelda because it's a dream. To be honest, she never existed, her only true existence is at the end when she becomes a gull. I like that you linked the Windfish to the leviathan in botw, because that explains a lot. If the windfish came from hyrule it makes sense that the main heroine looks like the princess.
Tasha TasisArt
I remember. My point is kinda... the MM/FS/FSA games just don’t really fit as preOoT-
(despite being plopped there, apparently, when OoT was the “first” until SS was “first”. They borrow from LttP thematically, and the FourSword existing at all only makes sense for “something happened to the MasterSword” which...then puts it waaayyy later on if they’re even canonical at all vs weird spinoff. You know, when trying to connect everything Post Production when the order keeps getting reshuffled. Which, MS wasn’t a thing until LttP, and Zelda1 needed a sacred/silver arrow...so...trying to connect everything, Something happened to the MS if trying to connect. Forging the FS then makes the most sense for it to replace the MS because for whatever reason it was lost or destroyed sometime after LttP (and swords like the Magic Sword, although powerful, wouldn’t cut it against Demise’s Vessel)
-and you can tell that they originally intended for LA to be a sequel to LttP by them sharing the same art style (but again...the games revolving around the FourSword reused the ToonLink style despite there being no connection between the two.) So since the games “reshuffle” despite whatever was originally conceived in construction... LA to me fits better with BotW (especially since LA IS a dream, Marin’s “Zelda”, and dreaming while sleeping in the resurrection shrine would be the best way to protect Link’s mind (especially since Dreamworld Aside, it plays like a Fever Dream or the Comatose Dream Trope...while the actual in-game references to anything are kinda nonexistent)
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Sorry for all the tangents! Hopefully that explains things a bit better (and thanks for not simply posting a link to the timeline etc) :D
@@anonymousfellow8879 I do agree with you! In case of connection, LA has a clear connection between the windfish and the leviathan. In that regard, you could say the windfish is a leviathan in the same sense that levias from ss is. Thing with games is unless Nintendo confirm it everything to do with the timeline and character similarities is just theory. And god knows nintendo don't confirm anything the timeljne, despite the placement. In the updated version they said everything was basically up to the players opinion and that's just purely annoying. Thank you for trying to clarify, you really made me think today! Actually, I put down my university work to research and support this lol. Anything for a good discussion of my favourite game series.
Tasha TasisArt
Awesome! I enjoy a good discussion, so thanks for humoring me 😅
And I’ve seen several zeldatubers connecting the Leviathans specifically with various Deity Whales throughout the series, which AH YES. Finally something concrete in an actual game vs an offhand WoG. We can work with that, especially since Deity Whales aren’t anything new and occur in several games regardless of “placements”. (They also insist on Frogs? But that’s mostly WW/PH, as the frogs in LA are a different reference entirely, Dream-World aside.)
...trying to remember which ones. Think Zeltik is one? But he’s got a bunch of great videos exploring actual game elements with some pretty solid theories (you know, for theories) for the next time you need a brainbreak (if you aren’t already subscribed. If already? You’ve got great taste lol)
This theory also makes a lot of sense in Twilight Princess. The hyrule field night music in that game features singing that sounds eerily similar to Malon's singing from OoT. In fact it makes even more sense in that game that the spirit of Malon would be watching over the Hero of Twilight, since he is very likely her distant grandson.
Marin was made out of Link's memory of Zelda actually. Just like SPOILER some of the Nightmares, who come OUT of Link's body take the shape of Aghanim and ALttP's Ganon.
OliRock92 That wouldn't make sense, and also not what Hyrule Historia states
Yep
@@angelmendez-rivera351 It does because Link's Awakening is officially the direct sequel to Link to the Past only until the Oracle games came around and made for different possible timeline placements.
The fact that there’s a character named Marin Is just so exciting! It’s so weird hearing my name spoken so many times about someone else.
Maren Smith If I dream of us going on a date Maren on Konkhot island, I would never want to wake up and make you disappear you beautiful woman
SIMP!!!!
A theory I found on tumblr that I'm having trouble finding now: paraphrased:
Every inhabitant of Koholint Island is actually just a facet of the Wind Fish's personality, Marin included.
Yes, this implies that the Wind Fish has a crush on Link.
This is in keeping with lore established in Breath of the Wild, namely that giant fish people find Link romantically irresistible.
Carly Hamilton The Fish is just like The One Being from Mortal Kombat. He’s literally dreaming of all the realms. So the inhabitants all have their own will instead of being personalities of their respective entities
Hmmmm Malon, Marin, Mipha, Midna....
Nintendo has a thing for female characters that start with “M”
One of them is a slave in a ranch for 7 years, one doesn't exist and fade away with her dreams at the end, one dies and can't rest in peace for 100 years and the last one leaves hyrule with no possible way of going back there!! Nintendo like to give the sad events to the M ladies 😭😹
Marie, marina, Mario
King CleCle actually Midna does have a potential way to return to Hyrule, she just can’t do it herself. If the Hero Of Twilight and the Zelda of Twilight Princess figured out what happened to Ganondorf’s TriForce of Power and obtained it then they could have wished for the Twili to have their exile ended. Considering that Midna completely destroyed the Mirror of Twilight she probably wanted Hyrule to decide if the Twili would return, she never said that there weren’t other methods of accessing the Twilight Realm. Judging by how she says that she “might see him again someday” then she was probably implying that the Triforce might bring her back to Hyrule someday if the Royal Family wanted them. Personally I don’t understand why she would shatter the mirror when she could instead form a trade alliance with Hyrule and benefit both her people and Hyrule. Nintendo simply closed off so much potential by having her shatter the mirror.
Yeah, they should've stopped at Metroid. She was cool.
Malon, Midna, Marin, Marina, Mipha, Mario, Marie, all the cutest nintendo M Girls
Definitely an interesting idea. I've never really thought about Marin's origins before, just assuming she was another part of the dream. But her acting as a projection of Link's subconscious is a very cool observation.
On a related note, do you think the World of the Ocean King could be a dream too? Like, maybe the Leviathans all have the ability to manifest their thoughts into the real world.
@@nonoctoro4933 Sure, but Marin is implied to become a real seagull at the end of Link's Awakening, thus implying that dream creatures can become real. And there's no actual explanation of how Link was pulled into the dream, so I'd argue that Koholint was something of a pocket dimension itself, which simply collapsed at the Wind Fish's waking.
@@nonoctoro4933 I guess that would be the simplest explanation. I do still like mine a bit more, though.
@@nonoctoro4933 I believe that the world of the Ocean King is the same world as Termina and/or Lorule, just changed in parallel to Hyrule
ShelbyAQD I thought Marin wished Link to be there as implied by in game dialogue
I have my own theory. It concerns the fact that Ocarina of Time Link has no known living relatives, we are told in the scene after the Forest Temple Boss Battle that Link's mother died bringing him to Kokiri Forest, any other relatives are unknown. Another factor is that Marin is wearing a Blue Dress & a Hibiscus Flower in her hair, who else wears such an outfit? It's Aryll, sister to Wind Waker Link! What if we are seeing throughout the Link's Awakening game is a manifestation of Link's fondest wish? To be part of a family & having a sense of belonging somewhere.
This is straight from the Zelda Wiki on Aryll (I'm not sure this is 100% true but it may help your point)
Development
In the character design notes for Aryll inside the Zelda Box's book, Eiji Aonuma said that Aryll was originally going to be named Mariru (マリル?) to be similar to Marin from Link's Awakening and Malon from Ocarina of Time. As such, certain similarities between Aryll and Marin can be explained, such as their affinity for seagulls and the red hibiscus in Marin's hair that appears on a pattern on Aryll's dress.
I think Miyamoto/Eiji Aonuma may have actually addressed this already..
Malon and Talon are an homage to the success of Link's Awakening. Ocarina of Time script writer Toru Osawa said that Talon and Malon from Ocarina of Time are based on Tarin and Marin. It was intended that players who have played Link's Awakening would recognize the reference. I think even Aonuma said that Malon is a memory projected by the Hero's memories? Just as Zelda's Goddess Powers and Ganondorfs Hatred/Power kind of get passed on through the ages so do Link's memories and strength. She stays in his heart and his desire to see her again projects her into the world?
Something fun to chew on
Great theory, but here is the catch: Link's awakening was created before ocarina of time, so Nintendo may not of had this in mind. Maybe Marin is Links memory of zelda, as that is what he first calls her when he wakes up.
Shazaam! Great friggin comment friend!
She's an amalgamation of Link's memories of important women in his life. That's how I saw her since beating the GBC version of the game she appears in.
Maybe she is the "prototype" that Malon gets based on, including Tarin -> Talon. Maybe Marin is simply the ideal girl Link would want to marry someday. His dream girl. And the final thought I believe is that Marin already existed as a seagull but outside the dream, due to the influence of being pulled into the wind fish's dream, she and the people in the village are given human forms and no memory of what they were before. Marin knew there was more to the world than the island because of where she finds link. Its a pretty fair assumption to make that he wasn't from there. The human characters and mabe village are like a protected safe zone on the island and likely based on Link's ideal kind of village if the hero's destiny hadn't been thrown on him.
so? zelda games always explain, throw back to and recall characters and ideas back and forth in new games.
Marin is “Zelda”
(And Malon later gets based around Marin. But even the game where Malon and Zelda exist at the same time? (A la Oracles of Seasons linked-quest) Zelda and Marin share a sprite. Malon gets her own.)
This is beautiful, but the thing is Marin actually came first and inspired the creation of Malon. Interviews from Iwata and so on states "if it wasn't for Links awakening, then Ocarina of Time would be different".
but that's from a game development view, not a lore view
I'm not sure how it would work in terms of lore. Link clearly confused Marin for Zelda and never mentioned Malon because, canonically, he never met Malon and Talon.
I don't know if it's in the switch version, but in the DX version, upon waking up it's implied that Link thought Marin was Zelda.
Thank you so much for making this video, Mask. For well over a decade, I've been speculating about quite literally every detail of this video, but what I've always been missing was the last part you detailed. Now it's finally complete thanks to you, my friend! My green cap's off to you!
Combine this with Kafei's love triangle (definitely connected to this) and the start of Twilight Princess as you pointed out...
= The Hero of Time ended up with Malon instead of Zelda because of faulty logic about who his "dream girl" is.
Marin's surface level interpretation is Malon, but her character is actually way closer to Zelda.
"She acts as Link's inner thoughts." Kinda like Zelda in BotW...
The reason Link got confused? Well I can't say I blame him really.
Malon gave Link the power of waking someone up in Ocarina of Time, when he was ON HIS WAY TO MEET ZELDA.
Hi Bandit, cool theory! I'd just like to point out that although it is true that Marin probably comes from Link's dream instead of the Wind Fish's, she is not supposed to resemble Malon since as you pointed out, Malon originated from OoT. In fact, Malon and Talon are a reference to Marin and Tarin, not vice versa. The one who Marin actually resembles is Zelda, which is directly pointed out in-game, since Link seems to call her Zelda when he wakes up, as her dialogue implies at the beggining of the game. Also, I don't think she's the only one who comes from Link's dreams instead of the Wind Fish, for example, the nightmares (final bosses) clearly must come from Link's memories of past battles since Aghanim and Ganon appear in nightmare form.
Now that, is a great comment!
@@nonoctoro4933 The Wind Fish had been asleep for quite some time, but the nightmares weren't there from the start, they appeared later
@@nonoctoro4933 Well, of course I cannot prove this since it's speculation, but inside dreams our sense of time is distorted, so it could be possible that when Link entered the Wind Fish dream and their dreams mixed together, the bad memories from Link created nightmares for the Wind Fish, and it felt to him like a long time but it wasn't really that long since the nightmares appeared and Link started his adventure.
Hey thanks for your input! I totally get what you're saying, and from a development standpoint- you're 100% correct. Marin was born in '93 whereas Malon didn't appear for the first time until '98. However, I'm specifically speaking from a lore/timeline standpoint. Lore-wise, Malon predates Marin as OoT takes place before LA. Development wise, since at the time of LA's release Malon didn't exist, Zelda is the only counterpart to her character and therefore Marin is supposed to be a dream-state Zelda. This ceased to make sense to me though once Malon/Talon became recurring characters throughout the series as well; with added backstory and lore changing Marin's character.
They went on to confirm this in Hyrule Historia on page 102- "...Tarin and Marin may be the product of Link's memories of Malon and her father Talon, of Lon Lon Ranch."
@@BanditGames Hey thanks for your reply man! I was unaware that they had retconned this fact in Hyrule Historia, but I guess it makes sense lorewise. I should probably get that book haha. Cheers man, keep up the good work!
ayy lmao 😎 can't wait for harder teasers lol
Btw loved the video as always, keep up the great work man :)
YOU LUCKLY LITTLE ..........
As it turns out, a correct reply gets as many likes as me asking why my kidneys failed.
MNB: "So is Marin an echo of Malon? I think so, but what do you think?"
Me: "She's a Witch!!"
MNB: "What makes you think she is a witch?"
Me: "She turned me into a chuchu!"
MNB: "A chuchu?"
Me: "...I got better."
.... BURN HER ANYWAY
😂😂😂😂 no no use the scales! Get a duck!
Ducks float and wood floats, so if she weighs the same as a duck she’s a witch!
@@9s13 or a Cucco!
@@9s13 this is a fare court
I owned the original black and white version for gameboy. In the manual it says that Marin resembles Zelda.
Okay, you've convinced me.
Except for the part about Malon bonding to Link's soul to ensure that he remembers Epona's Song. That sounds like a bit of a flying leap of logic.
I think Marin is the Koholint Island incarnation of Zelda since in others games Zelda follows Link (ex: a link to the past) just like what Marin did in game and also because they have that romantic vibe around then just like Link has with Zelda, Marin likes music just like Zelda in Skyward sword and in Ocarina of Time Zelda's lullaby is a magic song just like the Ballad of the Wind Fish
I like the Marin is Link's dream theorie, because as we know the final nightmare shapeshifts into agahnim and ganon. Both evil enemies the same Link fought before.
".. and Care about spoilers."
Hehe, cute... Have already done everything, twice...
So.. got anymore Zelda games there? Can i buy some?
Triforce heroes
@@plehiguess
Sure, have played it.....
*Realizes i am not done with it*
Uh.. i will.. um.. be right back..
Is it just me or does it look like Malon is going to kill Marin in the thumbnail?
I know right? 😨 That is one CREEPY thumbnail. 😱
I just saw the thumbnail at first and thought it was something DARK
Yeah she does , ironically the contrast in their expressions is scary
MADE ME LAUGH-
@@NylarNylarNylar Awh good 🥺
Damn I can't believe I missed a great ending just because I decided to get a bit cocky in a few dungeons, and get myself killed twice... welp time to do it again
Wait so how do we know Malon was even a concept when Link's Awakening was released? It was half a decade before OOT, so how does this theory work? I think Malon was created simply as a reference to Marin, and not with a grand timeline in mind.
IRL, Malon and Talon are based off of Marin and Tarin, who in turn are based off of Zelda (from Zelda 1) and Mario.
A little misleading, 5 years, yes, but OoT is the very next game released after LW. So the developers went right from this game to their prize release for the future N64.
The thought of Marin being from Link's dream is very interesting. Very probable as she has a differet outlook of things. However, the Malon part is off as this Link is supposed to be the one from ALTTP, not the Ocarina one.
They all retain their souls and shit as they pass on (which is dumb) and the Wind Fish was dreaming, not Link.
Personally I disagree. I have always thought of Marin as the Wind Fish's contingency plan. The Wind Fish clearly knows that its dreams have magical properties and created Marin to wake him/her/it if something went wrong. Only the Wind Fish underestimated the Nightmares and Marin wasn't strong enough to do it on her own. Luckily our hero Link came along!
I recall reading an article. Talon and Malon were put into Ocarina as a reference to Links Awakening. I think it was the If You Know Gaming video on Links Awakening.
Marin is actually based on the original Zelda, that's why he mistook her for Zelda. She's Zelda's double, because originaly she wasn't blonde, but Burnett.
maximselan200 Marin is a red head not blonde.
@@AmeliaPond. yes, so was the original Zelda, due to graphic limits back in the NES days. 8 bits of color. So she was a red head too
maximselan200 but you said Zelda had burnett hair in the 8 bit version which is true her hair was brown/burnett, not red headed. Marin has red hair. I was only pointing out that burnett doesn’t mean red hair but brown hair.
maximselan200 Umm why the hell is Kon wearing a eye patch?
Because it's Kenpatchi Kon
My mind has been explosively expanded.
Good video.
I love this theory! Very well thought out. I totally agree with you my friend!
I am surprised that you haven't used the GBC version as well...
However, back in the day, there was a stronger theory on who Malon is...
Malon is the Windfish... There's a passage that states that the Windfish isn't one that likes to sleep, but is trapped in sleep by nightmares. In order to free itself, it's subcomtious created an island that waited for a drifter to come. Once that happened, Link's mind was tapped to create a relatable enviroment that Link could accept. (Ergo, the island and people would be much more Zora-like if a Zora drifted on the island).
With that, the Windfish gave Marin it's will to help and the song that would wake it to link and let the rest play out.
As such, Marin embodies the windfish's will to wake up, the owl embodies it's knowledge to wake, the caves embody the training needed to succeed, and the animals represent those closest to the Windfish, being the only ones actively wanting to hear Marin sing.
Though you are right in a way too as, in sculpting the villager's personalities and looks, some of Link's ideals did transfer over to make them relatable.
Marin being an image Link sees as he watches the Windfish goes is for two reasons, as the personification of the windfish's will to wake, it's a way to say thank you. But as Marin is tainted by Link's presence, the Windfish is letting Link know that Marin is now an eternal and unforgetable part of it's memory.
Personally, I want to imagine that Marin is actually the siren, as she used to be a girl with her father when he went on fishing trips. She, one day, saw the Wind Fish and started to make small songs to see which one would attract the Wind Fish for her to look at it's majesty. When she found the right one, the Wind Fish remembered and kept the girl in his thoughts, even after being caught by the nightmares. When he suddenly stopped appearing or making noise, Marin got worried and tried to go out to see if something happened to him. She asked her father to help her, and decided to go on a whim, which lead to him being with her in their final moments due to an unexpected storm that came and sank both them and their ship.
A point that I would use to support it is the way the last lyrics in the english version of the song where it mentions "Hold my hand, think of me, and I'll fly." Kinda like how the spirit of those gone will go fly into the afterlife, especially when they are at peace. The instruments in the dream is how the wind fish would imagine going with Marin's singing, therefore, her spirit was in the dream when she had became the Wind Fish's siren.
For those stating Malon was the oracle games, you are correct. However, the updated timeline has the Oracle games after Awakening. Thus, this link has not met Malon. All named Zelda characters tend to reincarnate as seen with tingle, beetle, impa, etc, so if anything, I think that detail adds more validity to this theory.
except for that malon and marin don't share the same sprite at all, while marin and zelda do.
the sweet sea side girl who is obsessed with singing, seagulls and maybe even LINK.
seriously something strange came to my mind lol
she definitely took an interest in link
Nice theory and all, but as many already pointed out LA was before OoT, so it's OoT characters being based on LA's ones.
If anything, i'd say that Link and the Wind Fish share the dream and are creating it together- Fish giving the energy to build up such a dream and make it 'come true', and Link giving his ideas and memories to shape it. After all, many enemies and other things are ones Link had encountered (and Fish being associated with the ocean and such had less chance of seeing). If anyone pays attention to what the Owl says, he says he's a part of the Wind Fish, and is aware of that, so other characters could be a part of the Fish too, but wouldn't be aware of that.
i also am wondering how people seem to fail to notice that Link had been struck by a lightning at the beginning, which means the whole game happens while Link is drifting unconsciously on the raft. In my mind, the Wind Fish went into Link's head, "creating the dream", to wake Link up and save him, from a coma or drowning. For all we could know, it was all in Link's head, how he was dealing with the shock of the lightning coupled with the storm. The world could've been made up solely by him, it could've been his dream instead, because of the damage/trauma his brain suffered, and the Wind Fish placed itself somewhere in it to be awoken, an analogy for Link's mind to regenerate, recover skill and memories, and be ready to wake up. So by waking up the Wind Fish, Link wakes himself up.
Funny how the game is Link's Awakening from a coma.
:P
I think it’s rather interesting that people assume I didn’t know the release date of the games; I’m speaking specifically from a lore standpoint. Others have also pointed out that (unknown to me) there’s a paragraph in Hyrule Historia that basically confirms my theory, Marin and Tarin being memory echoes of Malon and Talon, as canon. So there’s that.
The rest of your comment could be true. It wouldn’t necessarily have an affect on Koholint Island or its inhabitants, but it’s an interesting take. Thanks for your input!
I like the theory except the fact that link's awakening came out for the Game Boy before Ocarina of time came out on nintendo 64 so marin came out before malon
Well, chronologically, sure, but what does head canon tell you?
@@ravenebony2267 My head Canon is slightly different but still follows the same line I see that Marin is also The reincarnation of malon To follow her love of the hero
That works.
Ths order the games came out makes no difference, it's the timeline placement that matter's
that really doesnt change anything because Nintendo could of had that in mind with the game that comes before that one.
Great video man.
Excited to see the points you make in this vid
I think Marin is the dream personification of the Windfish
I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU MARIN😭💞
Whatever I think, you put a lot of thought into this, buddy. Well done.
6:30 Maybe because after "ocarina of Time", three split timelines appeared, at the first timeline there's "Link's Awakening".
As a puzzle lover I look forward to harder hints.
I love Link's Awakening DX DX.
I agree for sure. Especially with the fact of Malon having a intense affection for the Hero of Time that she bound her soul to his. Makes sense to me. Solid vid my guy.
Idk what the fellas are on about considering that LA takes place after OoT. The date of the game made isn’t really relevant other than the part of the video where you stated that Malon and Talon being a reference to Marin and Tarin.
Anyway. Awesome video.
Practically speaking the og links awakening launch years prior to ocarina of time, so ocarina took various inspirations from the game, like, the owl companion, the ocarina/song system (although ocarina expanded very much on it), and obviously Malon(marin) and her father. It is actually very interesting to play both games back to back, you can see clearly where they took some of the things from
I have always thought something like this! So glad I am not the only one!
I love how they manage to string things together even when sometimes I just feel like the artist team just makes stuff up and watch everyone theorize about it XD
If I remember correctly, the Hero of Legend’s adventures are in the chronological order of: A Link to the Past, the Oracle games, and Link’s Awakening. Then, as an old man, he is in A Link Between Worlds using the alias “Gramps”.
Very touchy theory. Enjoyed it.
This was a superb theory.
I always thought Marin was the wind fishs consciousness. It used memories from link to make her that is why she seemed to know more, and her knowing the song to wake itself up because it couldn't wake itself up and needed a hero to do it.
I'm more curious about that ghost that follows Link after completing the Waterfall dungeon. I know it probably doesn't matter because everything about Koholint was just a dream, but who was that ghost in life? Who used to live in that abandoned house in Martha's Bay and why was it a so important side quest for the ghost to go there? What's the story?
well im taking a guess that she (it would appear it is a she) was a traveler, from some of the stuff she has sprawled around her house, alot of navigation tools and maps along with backpacks and the like for long trips, she may have been an explorer who ended up in the wind fishes dream before link(possibly, nothings rock solid) and lived out her days on the island till her time was up
Nintendoblackcrisis has a video on that actually! Look up the ghost of martha's bay
Aww, the theory makes the game even cuter. ^.^ haha Maybe in his dream she is another form of Zelda as well, since dreams are subconscious and when he first see's her he thinks she is Zelda.
My biggest problem with this theory is that not only did Link from Link's Awakening/A Link to the Past never meet Malon, he's also a part of the downfall timeline, in which the Link from Ocarina of Time died...Ergo, he would've never settled down with Malon, and the whole idea of a connection to the Hero of Time's soul would be rendered null.
Speaking from a purely developmental context, though...You're pretty much spot on. The creators drew Marin and Tarin from Malon and Talon in Ocarina of Time, but that's pretty much the extent of it.
I do like the idea that she came from Link's imagination instead of the Wind Fish's, though.
Malon and Talon are actually based on Marin and Tarin. It's possible that they back filled in that lore with those characters actually becoming the inspiration for the dream versions. And the dialogue does seem to support your theory, so I'm curious if the developers had that in mind where these characters would have came from someone else in Link's mind/past. However it's interesting how Marin would know the Ballad of the Wind Fish being just a component of Link's dream unless part of him learns that on his own without the rest of his mind knowing it.
My running theory had been that Marin is actually a seagull who, like Link, got caught in the Wind Fish's dream. If Link can get pulled into Koholint, then why not other creatures. She would've likely had been in that dream for quite some time, learned things about the island become friends with other inhabitants/captors and possibly all but forgotten what she is. She likes singing, she dreams of flying (possibly because she misses it), and you see that seagull flying off separate from the others at the end. Its possible that some of the others are trapped as well.
The Ballad of the Wind Fish kinda sounds like Eponas song backwards, with tbotwf getting higher and es getting lower!
In the secret ending you see Marin’s face and then see a seagull go by signifying that perhaps her wish to the wind fish (to become a seagull and fly far away) came true.
I just realized the little song she sings is very close to epona's song backwards
This fits in with a theory about Link's Awakening: Koholint Island is a shared dream between Link and the Wind Fish.
We know that Koholint Island was created by the Wind Fish's dream. This is something that is hinted at by the Nightmares confirmed halfway through the game when link gets to the Ancient Ruins. At some point the Nightmare invaded the Wind Fish's slumber in an attempted to take over his dream world and keep the Wind Fish unable to awaken.
My theory is that Link's memories influenced parts of the Wind Fish's nightmare/dream- in particular, some of the enemies found of Koholint Island are ones Link has faced in his previous adventures such as Darknuts, Octoroks, Armos Knight, and Zoras.
During the final battle, Nightmare takes the shapes that resembles the bosses from Link's previous adventure in A Link to the Past like Moldorm, Agahnim, and Ganon. Nightmare was using Link's memories as a way of trying to prevent Link from awakening the Wind Fish by using Link's memories against him.
Link might have also contributed to Koholint's geography as Tal Tal Mountain could be created from memories of Death Mountain, Mysterious Woods from Lost Woods, Kanalet Castle could be the Koholint counterpart of Hyrule Castle.
Lucky, the Wind Fish had its own tactics as His dream world had the necessary tools to awaken him- the Eight Instruments of the Sirens along with a person that knows Ballad of the Wind Fish to teach Link (Marin). There is also south of the South Face Shrine which reveals the secret of Koholint Island and the help of the Wind Fish's subconscious/spirit in the form of the Owl.
Speaking of Marin, I like to think she was half constructed from both Link and the Wind Fish.
At first Link confused Marin for Princess Zelda looks-wise, as well as being a good-natured girl who loves to sing and has a strong sense of morality. Like the Hero of Legend, she is very adventurous as scene when she went hiking up Tal Tal Mountains to make her wish because she wants to see what's beyond Koholint Island. I think these would be qualities Link would look for in a mate so you might say Marin is Link's ultimate dream girl.
in the original, Marin is based on Zelda. She even looks like her (although a little different) and Link mistakens her as Zelda ingame! It's heavily hinted, that she looks like Zelda, because Link is dreaming too and all the things she does and says, are things that Link would love to see and hear from Zelda.. And as it's said in the video, Marin is completely different as the other people and creatures on the Island - she always gave me, really heavy (playful) Zelda vibes.
The initial question got me thinking, but that’s about all this video did for me.
I have a theory , the residents of koholint island are actually dreamers who got stuck in koholint and forgotten who they are , which explains why a lot of characters appear but not with the same name.
A memory echo from the depths of the Soul of the Hero.
This incarnation of Link canonically had not interacted with a Malon at all by this point, but he does interact with Malon in Oracle of Seasons. As of the current official timeline, Link's Awakening takes place after A Link to the Past but before the Oracle duo, and it is the same Link in all four games. Previously, Link's Awakening took place after the Oracle duo. In any case, this Malon is depicted as being a fair bit younger than Link, and seems to be very inexperienced handling Cuccos.
I'd say that you should look at the plot of Link's Awakening and compare it to Phantom Hourglass -- similar things happen in which Link is sent to another world. Upon saving the "deity whale" creature, Link is transported back to his world. I feel this offers the best modern insight into what may have happened: the "World of the Ocean King" is stated to be a parallel dimension to the Great Sea. It isn't elaborated upon whether this means it's a separate physical dimension, or just a dream -- Tetra's crew states they had only been missing for about five minutes at the end of the game; Lineback, for assisting in saving the Ocean King, is granted one wish. Lineback wishes to have his boat back -- he's given it along with any upgrades you've made to it during the course of the game. Anything Link had found however is not kept -- sure sounds similar to a dream to me.
For the Wind Fish in specific -- this is the Wind Fish's dream, Link just wandered into it. Marin "existed" prior to Link's influence, so her traits of wishing to explore the world outside may have resonated with Link's desire to leave. Because of this, they both had similar desires; when Link wakes the Wind Fish, he may have made the wish that Marin be able to travel the world. The Wind Fish obliged, granting her the form of a seagull as she had wished in a cutscene. Though we also don't know if this seagull form is simply just symbolism for her reincarnation elsewhere.
Marin's spirit, being tied to a physical form rather than a dream, causes her to be real from this point onward in the Fallen Hero timeline. Hell, since Talon in Oracle of Seasons and Tarin share identical sprites (except Talon has a hat), maybe Malon in that game is just a very young girl reincarnated from Marin. Though, it wouldn't make much sense since the Oracle games are intended to take place around a year after A Link to the Past -- but worse discrepancies have existed in the franchise before, so who knows.
I always thought that Marin was a figment created by the Nightmare to seduce Link into staying on Koholint and keeping the Dreamer asleep...Sort of like Calypso from the Odyssey mixed with Sadie from 11/22/63, I dunno.
Great theory
Or maybe the seagulls took a nap
. . . I've always thought that Marin was Link's consciousness creating a manifestation of someone familiar to him; Zelda. Because Konoholint was a dream for the Wind Fish, but she was Link's dreams. That's why she knew the song, because her fake consciousness knew that this wasn't real.... So... Yeah, that's just how I thought of it
Edit; Plus, it can't be "another Malon character", right? Because Marin was made first.... Right...?
You forgot to mention Marin's digging, uh, "fascination." I don't know if it's still the case in the remake, but in the original she'll "ask" you to "DIG TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH!" every time you use the shovel while she's following you.
@Greg's Retro Channel 2 Luckily, I don't remember clearly if I did dig with Marin around. In all honesty, I don't remember what antics I got her into.
Or Marin is manifestation of Link’s love for zelda in the dream and desire to leave the island to be with his princess.
Zoey The Cheetah that is the sweetest comment and its so cute ❤️ I agree with your theory
Link never has had a real interest for Zelda.
When i got my Super Gameboy it came with a book that had info on several games, including Link's Awakening. In that info they referred to Marin and Tarin as Malon and Talon. When i was finally able to play the game and saw the name changes i just figured it was a reagional thing (names changed for the US market and such). Then out came Ocarina and there were Malon and Talon! I even went back to my book to see if the spelling was the same.
Marin acting motherly to Link; Shipping Link with Malon...
Legend of Zelda: Spiritual Alabama
I feel you’re on the money however I think there’s more to it. I may work on a theory video of this myself
Congrats, you won the UA-cam algorithm today. Small channel and yet you hit the recommendation page.
I regret not finishing because the WInd fish looks so cool
A prove/evidence for you theory, that the dreams of the Windfish and Link are overlapping is the last Boss fight. The final Boss took many shapes of beaten Bosses directly from Links memory's.
I know what I think. Still all heartbreaking. I played and beat the game in my teens and it still takes me back to that lonely time.
She was also in the oracle games which takes place before links awakening
I love the original! I can't wait to play this version!
I thought you were going to mention that Malon appears in the Oracles, which took place before Link's Awakening on the 2011 timeline.
Link thinks "What Zelda!?" When he first sees her. Back in 93 my theory was Marin was Link's dream of Zelda incorporated into the Wildfishes dream by it to Awaken itself. The Link to the past comic presented Link and Zelda as a romance that could never be consummated.
So am I the only one who says it mar-in like mar, as in ocean in spanish?
Beautiful
It's all a dream from the Wind Fish.
Sorry if this is really long but I think you'd like this:
I actually had a theory when I played Skyward Sword that just like Demise's Hatred being Reborn, I had a theory that Zelda's Love for Link was reborn since personally i felt like a good portion of her story in that game was about being torn between her duties as Hylia and her love for Link. My theory has since expanded based on many other theories but essentially my theory is that Malon, Marin, and Aryll (who was originally supposed to be Mariru and even has a dress that resembles Marin's) are SS Zelda's Love reborn. A spiritual echo of the very first Zelda's love for the hero. So basically just expands upon your theory coincidentally haha.
I also have another theory that stems from this one based on your videos about Zelda in Breath of the Wild and your Tetraforce theory video that the 4th piece of the triforce is love and thats why her love was being reincarnated, and why she needed it to have full control of the triforce in BOTW
I always assumed Marin was a seagull trapped in the Windfish's dream. A human woman just happened to be the form she took while in slumber. That or the Windfish transformed her that she might wake him. Or failing that, teach one more qualified for the task the song required.
Or, what if Marin is from the Seagull's dream?
A Seagull that's seen much the world has to offer. Land, sea and people.
Ummm....I think your wrong about their connection due to the one fact.... Link's Awakening originally came out before Ocarina of Time. As for her being created by Link himself... that's a cool theory.
It's debatable whether or not the Links from the adult timeline actually share that spirit of the hero considering they are not descendants or reincarnations.
Nintendo has officially acknowledged that Malin would not have existed without Link's Awakening,. As Marin helped influence the creation of her.
Nice theory
Occam's Razor tells us the simplest answer ie usually the correct one. LA and OoT were made before characters started openly defying time and reality. So rather then just pluck Marin and Tarin from LA they tweaked them just enough so they were similar but different.
That's most likely true, that all characters in the curse (referring to demises' generational curse) have the memories of previous decendants/were tought certain things by them. It just takes a bit more than a simple look to remember them.
I thought this link was from the "oracle of" games.
There is a scene in one where his raft sinks and he is found on a beach in a scene similar to the opening of awakening.