@@MarlinMay I don’t know about this one specifically but in general these EV charging cables have cooling built in because they do get quite hot pumping all that electricity to the car. Also, durability is very important so they can stand up to misuse and abuse.
Exactly, but Love’s is not doing anything with charging at the present time and as far as I know they have no plans going forward as yet. There are a few Electrify America stations near Love’s but they do not have anything to do with the company.
Yep, one would think. Buccees should be investing in chargers at all their locations for sure, but so far they only have 1 Supercharger site at one of their locations, and that was done by Tesla, not Buccees. Texas is WAY behind in charger installations in general. If you are not traveling I-35, good luck. No US or Texas state highways are covered at all. There isn’t s single DCFC in either Lubbock or Wichita Falls! Convenience chains would make lots of money with EV owners stuck at their stores for an hour or so while charging. @@roodick85
I really think apartment complexes, supermarkets and department store parking lots are ideal early rapid charging targets. So many young renters out there, and they are all probably the most inclined to adopt EVs early. And shopping time is perfect for a quick charge.
Apartments should be fine with level 2 (lots of them in California now have this) The issue is the demographics of new car buyers… 90% own their own home.
They’re 180kw capable. But they cheaped on the cables so they opted for the 2x90kw configuration vs sharing 180 kw or getting the full 180 if you’re alone as their cables can’t push that much current. Probably intentional savings because I would imagine most of their stores don’t have the electrical infrastructure capability to deliver 180. They should have gone for a battery supported solution like FireWire
Every Ev only wants the highest charging rate.... but disregard the added cost of the infrastructure and the electrical capacity of the service lines and the demand charges.... And still want it to have an Inexpensive charging rate And a reliable easy charging experience.... Good luck with that....
The only problem is, the huge amount of money they would have to invest, compared to usage. Would the equipment bring enough revenue to pay for itself within its service life? If they can't make a profit, they won't invest the hundreds of thousands of $'s.
@@vincentrobinette1507 Yep, folks should be lucky they have these. The charge rate is pretty decent, I would be more concerned about the spaces being ICEd out, they need to put tow away signs on those spaces like they do with the handicap spots.
This is ok though. I'd not use 7/11s charger network to ram as much electricity in my car as quickly as possible, but to add about 60-80 miles of range in about 15 minutes. Quick add. Then charge at home or find another 150-350kw charger a little further down the road if nothing available there
Don’t blame the cable when you didn’t back up far enough. Once you adjust to driving the same EV and learning where your port is, you will learn to back up more to make it easier on yourself.
Roman's going to be driving a different car every week until he retires. That's the job. It's why auto journalists can get really fussy about nonstandard minor controls.
Christ. He didn't even tried to hide the fact that he parked almost a meter and a half away from the charger. What a dumb a55. Other than that this charging session looked as good as anyone should expect.
Getting a foot in the door is more important than getting the details (charging speed, shed over chargers, etc) right out of the gate. Reliability would be a much more important goal at this point, and if there is money to be made at it, 7-11 will get there.
A lot of people forget that the history of gas stations was that pumps were being installed at convenience stores. So 7-11 doing this is both a throwback and natural.
Interesting, they have chosen Alway Be Broken chargers. They always have this great delay before they start is my feeling. I'm always at the lookout for Kempower here in Norway because they always works and they usually have around 10-16 chargers at every location. That's because their main charging unit has around 600kw of power which they then distribute to "satellite" poles.
So far, Kemppi is only known for their welders outside scandinavia. I believe their DC fast charging systems are some of the best on the market, but they dont have the production capacity yet to expand outside scandinavia at significant scale.
@@treborheminway3814 I haven't used them, but a friend of mine I have traveled Norway-France using their network and are very happy with them and are going on a trips this year Norway- France - UK. using a Ford Mustang Mach E if you wondered. So yes, they seem very reliable.
I've had to use gas for the first time in several years over the last couple months, and three of the four gas stations I stopped at had multiple pumps down and out of service, which matches my experiences from driving gas cars for the last 20 to 30 years. No one complained: they moved to the next working pump, they waited for a pump, or they went to another gas station. However, I keep hearing this take that EV chargers need to be as reliable gas pumps, but reliability isn't the actual issue. The issue is not having multiple other options on-site and nearby. In the parts of the country where people seem to be struggling with EA the most, a majority of the sites appear to be only four chargers. If they were 8 to 10 charger sites, no one there would even be mentioning the fact that one or two of the chargers are down. They'd just move to the next charger. And as the EV population grows, people aren't going to be upset if a site goes down for a day or two if there's an 8 to 10 charger EVgo site across the street and an 8 to 10 charger ChargePoint site a block down.
Very well said. Where I am in Cobb county GA we have pumps down and station's out of various grades of fuel and sometimes all grades every year. And all around at the large discount stores like same club and Costco fools sit in long lines waiting 15-45+mins to fuel up at cheaper prices.
I can count on both hands the number of times I have not been able to get gas over the last 30 years. About 750k miles of driving. It isn’t even close to the number of ev chargers that don’t work. Sometimes I wonder why they are even putting chargers in if they don’t care about maintaining them.
@@AJourneyOfYourSoul and I need a lot more than all 20 of my fingers n toes to get there in my 27 years now of driving and owning over 80+vehicle's. And despite the fact people brag about gas stations literally everywhere? Over 800,000+Americans run out of gas every year. It's the #1 roadside rollout for AAA. The #1 open recall right now across all ice is for the risk of FIRE. Facts are funny thing's aren't they. 🤔
@@AJourneyOfYourSoul Again, the question isn't about "not being able to get gas." The question is: How reliable do EV chargers actually need to be? The average gas station has about 8 pumps, and there are over 150,000 gas stations in the U.S. The average charging site has fewer than 3 dispensers, and there are only about 5,000 public fast charging sites in the U.S. So just on the surface alone, EV chargers need to be 30 times more reliable than gas pumps to have a similar experience. It sounds like we have been driving for a similar amount of time, but I might have logged a lot more miles than you. Regardless, I've lost count of the times I've run across pumps that were out of service, and I'd run out of fingers and toes counting the times an entire station has been down. It just doesn't register for gas drivers because they only have to cross the street to get to another station.
Thx for the vid. Exciting times. There are four new DCFC networks I have my eye on and I think any one of them could be a game changer. Ultium Charge 360 at Pilot/FlyingJ, Circle K, 7-11, & Subway. Of those, I am most hopeful for the GM one, as placing at interstate truck stops makes so much sense for road tripping. The other three are more likely going to help out adoption for people who live in apartments, condos, town homes that do not have home charging.
Not necessarily. The charge cable is not liquid cooled, like Tesla or Charge America stations. The fact that it relies on passive air cooling limits the current that can be passed through the charging cable. That's also why the cable is so big and heavy. Basically, they put a J-1772 connector on a CHAdeMO cable. While these aren't the most powerful chargers, lets hope they're among the most reliable...Time will tell!!
@@vincentrobinette1507 I did mean the dollar amount when I referenced rate my apologies for the confusion but the kilowatts per hour rate you are correct
I'm sold on the 'pay at the pump' VISA card system. Just like a gas station. The fact that it offers both CHAdeMO and J-1772 enhanced, (CCS) means that ANY electric car can charge there. (Tesla needs its CCS adapter) I really like the fact, that you DON'T need an "app" to use the charge station. 90kW seems a little down, but, not to bad. I'm sure you noticed, that the charge cable is really heavy. That's because this cable is NOT liquid cooled, like the ones used on Tesla and Electrify America chargers, so, the cable has to be much heavier to handle the high amperage, with passive air cooling. That allows the cable to be longer, with a hangar tie, similar to a hose at a gasoline/diesel pump. This type of charge station would be ideal at shopping centers, restaurants, or movie theatres, where you're going to be doing something for a while, rather than trying to fall asleep in your car for an hour, waiting for it to charge enough to get to your destination.
It seems odd that 7-11 went this route. Every grocery store, shopping center and theater should have a big bank of these plus even more L2. Once that happens (and it will), the charging problem for apartment dwellers will be mostly taken care of. I suppose a lot of 7-11 stores have other things to do nearby. So not every user will be sitting for a half hour eating super unhealthy food and drinking coffee.
1:15 It's important to emphasize that Tesla has 17,711 Supercharger *stalls*, not locations. Really, not even chargers. It's 17,111 dispensers (many of which share power) spread over about 1,700 sites, which is roughly the same number of locations as Electrify America and EVgo combined. There's no arguing that Tesla is the largest charging provider in the United States, but they are nowhere near as far ahead as some of the numbers might indicate. It's the way that they are ahead that's important, but as you noted, they're going to need to do more than open 12 of their sites to compete with the public charging providers.
Exactly on that Tesla count. Considering some of their stations are huge. Kettleman City, CA (along I-5 in Central California) has two sites that are a 5 minute walk from each other. One is like 90 the other around 40.
They are also putting in the state of Florida, there are about 6 locations with them. It's a very good idea to have more options. Thanks for the video.
The real game changer is when Kempower starts production in the US, they are a Finnish company and are the best chargers i have ever used here in Sweden, with great reliability, modularity, cable handling and screen with ability to scan a qr code to take the charging info with you on your smartphone
Fun fact: Convenience store sales account for 30% of a gas stations' revenue, and 70% of their profits. People who fast charge are more likely to go into the store to "drain the tank" and are thus more likely to buy very profitable drinks & snacks. Now if only they would add some canopies to the charging spots...
Fact: I was born and raised in Germany and am now living in the US (specifically Austin, Texas), and since I bought my Tesla X, I will never buy an EV with CCS (1&2) & CHADEMO charging port, as they are not just UGLY, but they are also OPD TECHNOLOGY, HEAVY & BULKY. I wish that EVERY EV manufacturer will use TESLA charging port (NACS) 😊and be done with it, period. Have a great day to y'all! 0:01
Combine this with the circle K push to add chargers and it's a game changer. I really want to go EV (Rivian R1T) but I need to tow a 3k boat/trailer 150 miles one way to the coast of NC in a charging desert.
@@nc3826 Yep the first 3/4 or 1 ton PHEV pickup to market with decent reviews and I'm buying it. It has to have a decent EV range though, at least 50 km unladen in winter for simple around town tasks, that way I can drive to work on EV only and charge there, and again when I get back home. I would also like at least 700 km highway range when running on the hybrid diesel setup also.
11:37 CHAdeMO isn't restricted to 50 kW, and on those units, it should be capable of the same power that you saw out of the CCS plug (about 200 A). The bigger problem for CHAdeMO is that no one made liquid-cooled cables, so they are restricted to 100 kW, even when they are installed on faster chargers. Of course, if someone wanted to make an 800 V CHAdeMO EV, it could technically charge at 150+ kW on many of the plugs that are currently deployed. The other thing to keep in mind is that, until someone comes out with a quick and easy CCS kit, most people are defaulting to CHAdeMO for their DCFC needs on DIY and conversion EVs.
@@jackfender9274 It could be where you're located. All the CHAdeMO connectors on the new EVgo sites are 100 kW, as are the CHAdeMO cables on Freewire chargers. Again, it's only 200 A, so it's as manageable as the 200 A, non-liquid-cooled CCS cables.
Not only the smaller cables than others, but the cold weather can also affect how much your Volvo will take in. It would be perfect for my EUV. I believe that here in California all new installs must have a screen, so no app required.
There are a lot of requirements for EVSE now. The CTEP database has less than 30 and only the ABB Tera DCFC are in there. Everything else is L2. Not sure how anyone else is getting a charger installed.
I have a level 2 charger but I have been level 1 charging (8A120VAC) for the past year to put minimum wear on the battery and I just don't need the extra charge considering how many km I put on the car daily. The only time the level 2 gets use is when a friend or family member needs a quick top off when they visit.
Roman, another thing they can do is, I have seen portable chargers where it has a solar canopy on it. So then, at least during the day, you're getting green power locally, and also sheltering the car and yourself from the elements, to some extent. 🙂
Why would you park so far away from the charger?!? No wonder you were wrestling the cord 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ starting to question if Roman is really in favor of EV’s or he’s just using TFL to bash on EV’s. I know there’s issues that we can’t ignore but he’s owned several EV’s you’d think he knows how to park to charge. 6:30
Maybe 7-11 will be the one that finally gets it right when it comes to DC fast charging. Simple, pay-as-you-go, grab something to eat and take a restroom break plus it's not at the corner or back in a parking lot. This is what we'd like to see. Reliability is the key here.
Don’t have roofs, because you don’t need to stay at the charger stall while it charges. You do have to stand by by gas pump while your car fills though.
why did you park so far away from the 7/11 charger and made the connection so much drama? also all you had to do was press the release to unhook the charger from Electrify America charger...
It's my understanding that the ABB chargers at 7eleven are currently only 90kwh due to the cable they chose, it could easily be upgraded to 150 with a cable swap, but unfortunately not 350 easily.
"it's pretty heavy", "you shouldn't have to work out to plug in..." doesn't sound like competition to Tesla's standard. That's a huge point imo for all CCS. The technology and ergonomics.
Honest question: Flo Chargers sponsors many (if not all) of your TFLEV videos, yet, I don't know that I've ever seen you use them (maybe on the Lighting to Alaska trip?). Are there no Flo Chargers in Colorado?
Anytime I've gotten that error on EA it's usually because of poor cell service so I have to swipe my card and it will work. The problem with that is that swiping my card doesn't connect with my account so I lose the discount.
Roman, why did you park so far away from the charger? Do you normally park across the street from the gas station you select? This is another a Roman artificial problem.
I can see why EVS dont need a canopy , you can be comfortable inside your car while you charge since it takes a while . With ICE cars its a quick fill up so you wait outside with the elements pouring over you. 🤔
like they say, the more options and conveniently placed, the better. If you are going to stop for a snack/coffee anyway, it helps get some extra juice until you hit the real DCFC and saves you extra time each stop.
I honestly don't know why it's taken this many years for even a few convenience store chains to start building their own charger networks. They make their money drawing in people who need fuel and and selling them other things like food at the same time. And ten years from now a lot of that demand for fuel is going to be replaced with demand for fast charging.
7-11 Purchased Speedway gas last year. Perhaps they will add EV charging at some of those stations. However, most gas stations are to small to have cars sitting around for a 1/2 hour or so. Of the 6 stations in our town, none of them have the room for EV charging. Just a thought.
I am wondering why the big box stores with a lot of parking don’t put chargers in? It would give them another revenue stream and draw people to their stores while also enticing to stay in their stores longer.
Its all about ROI (return on investment) an Installation of a 100kw charging station is about $200k at current market price. Also they might not be equipped to provide that load currently, requiring more investment. So a small 4 charger stall can easily go to 1+ million in investment. The math might not add up.
Charge stations really don't make much sense at a corner gas station, because how long it takes to charge. They do make perfect sense at a travel plaza, that features fast-food places, and perhaps, even a restaurant. Something to 'pass the time', while waiting for the car to charge. Parks and recreation centers are also good places for EV charge stations.
That's what I thought for awhile. But, after doing several short road trips in my Bolt that go just a few miles beyond the car's range, I've realized that the most of the trips I actually need to charge, the charge only lasts for a few minutes - and that's in a slow-charging Bolt, limited to 50 kW. That's because my typical use case doesn't require charging to full, or even 80%, but rather, pulling up to a charge 50 miles from home with 50 miles of range, and simply wanting enough of an energy buffer to make it home reliably and safely. Once I'm home, I can use my much-cheaper home charger to charge up the rest of the way. For charge stops this short, the only amenity I really care about is a restroom, and for this purpose, a gas station charger is good enough. Of course, gas station chargers are not for all use cases - if I did not have home charging, and needed to rely on public charging for all of my driving, I would focus more on what's nearby that I can walk to, so I can plug in longer and have stuff to do. But, for quick charges at the end of a road trip, gas station chargers are perfect.
I have always heard that gas stations make most of their profits off in store sales not the fuel. EV charging stations should also have covered dispensers, like most gas stations. Not even Tesla does that. Circle K is supposedly doing the same thing at their stores.
I personally dont think the screen is necessary. I think you should either entirely use the app. Or, have it like a vending machine where the words pop up on a little tiny screen above/on the credit card reader that say, 1. connect your car, 2. swipe card. Info about the charge can be found on your vehicles screen or app, so I dont really need to see that. Maybe an out of order light would be cool too
7-11 has alot of learning to do. I've tried there chargers here in Central Florida and they don't work. They shut down unexpectedly, charge at low rates and have difficulty starting to charge. In one session they double charged me and it took multiple calls and almost a month to get my refund.
I worked for Shell gas before and they told me right off the bat they only make Pennies on the gallon and makes the majority of their money on store sales.
Another great video! While not the best, at least they are smart enough to offer it, because you and anyone else are more likely to spend $$ in their store when plugged in there. I’m waiting for a Pilot or Loves gas stations to add chargers in bulk. That would be a traveling game changer.
I cannot recall the last time I saw advertised peak charging, they always seem throttled. Also, we know by now that peak speeds bring heat and therefore wear so we need to concentrate on the charge curve. Last, to your first point, EA is always down. That said, I'm fine with 711 at 90kw... as long as 90kw is reliable. Plus you get windshield wash stations, garbage cans, restrooms, and quick food.
The thickness of that charging cable looked more like a fire hose. Compare that to the Tesla cable which looks to be about 1/4 the diameter (just a guess by watching the video). Agreed... you didn't back up close enough which is why you struggled with the connection.
I think the chargers will be built primarily at gas stations, most of which have convenience stores and restrooms. Opening up the Tesla network will make a huge diffence, and piss off Teslarati who might have to wait for the Chevy Bolt to finish up. I wonder how soon these charging companies will up their costs......
The problem with 7/11 adding chargers is the layout of the chargers , (no roof) is being added on to the site so the layout of the parking gas, electric is not correct hopefully on new stores they’ll lay it out like gas pumps.
They should make it so you just pull in to the parking spot and it automatically connects from underneath. Then make it so every single parking spot has a charger. Everywhere you park throughout the day is charging your vehicle. But we can’t even get reliable internet or cell coverage after 30+ years, so don’t hold your breath.
8:38 gas stations make money on the convenience store so it was really odd (intentional?) to comment on making money charging vs the same as the gas fillup reason!
Convenience shops seem an ideal place for EV chargers, they have parking plus other facilities. As stated, a canopy over the EV chargers is a no brainer. The issue in getting the cable to reach seemed to be parking about 5 miles away from the charger 😉 Yes, they need more than 90kW chargers, if the local grid is the issue, they should get battery storage
Not all Chademo chargers are 50 kw. My 2019 LEAF takes 100 kW. Fper Wikipedia "irst-generation CHAdeMO connectors deliver up to 62.5 kW by 500 V, 125 A direct current[2] through a proprietary electrical connector, adding about 120 kilometres (75 mi) of range in a half an hour. It has been included in several international vehicle charging standards. The second-generation specification allows for up to 400 kW by 1 kV, 400 A direct current.[3][4] The CHAdeMO Association is currently co-developing with China Electricity Council (CEC) the third-generation standard with the working name of “ChaoJi” that aims to deliver 900 kW.[5]"
California has a plan to go EV universally. The only problem is, the grid can't support the state's current electricity requirements. My area experienced half a dozen blackout/brownouts this winter. Even more disappointing, the majority of electricity is still generated using fossil fuels. Gasoline works 99% of the time. In fact, I could the number of times on one hand in the last 20 years. I think I had an issue with my credit card, and in that case I just drove across the street. BTW, I didn't even know they still made Volvos or that people still drove them.
Brilliant that these major gas station chains (along interstates) and quick-marts (7-Eleven) are adding electric charging stations. Hopefully they will be better maintained, since they can provide additional revenue to the store.
Cable would have been a lot easier to insert if there wasn't an additional 6 ft of space needed from neglecting to back in far enough. Use the app, save money typically. Use the app, keep an eye on your charge level status while shopping.... tech can be amazing if you embrace it. Chademo tops out at 100kw...not 50kw. Details are important.
Gas stations make a lot more on convenience store margins than fuel sales. They'll need to start courting EV consumers. 90kW is rough, but more CCS stations that (might?) be maintained more frequently than current networks is a good thing long term.
1) Had he parked closer than 3' from the parking stops, the cable would have reached easily 2) he's exactly right about the charging stations NOT being covered, like gas pumps are. Why is that? 3) I agree that charge port location should be standardized. By not having a standard, EV manufacturers are building in a barrier to adoption.
It may 90kw right now but they are already testing higher output chargers. It's the price they're charging that might be a deal breaker. Another video I was watching they were charging 57 cents per kw although it was 150kw charger. But that's still to high.
YAY 7-11!! And BTW, our Tesla only charges at about 78kWh in the cold also, when we haven't pre-conditioned the battery, which I assume you didn't, so that 78 sounds right to me. Not sure if the Volvo pre-conditions, but if it does, maybe try again.
"You shouldn't have to wrestle the cable"
Maybe try backing up to the charger. Lol
Imagine a 90lb granny trying to wrangle the charger to plug in. It’d be like her wrestling an anaconda.
Yes, it looked like he could have back up another 5 feet.
I wonder if the cable is as huge as it is to make it more durable and perhaps less subject to vandalism?
@@MarlinMay I don’t know about this one specifically but in general these EV charging cables have cooling built in because they do get quite hot pumping all that electricity to the car. Also, durability is very important so they can stand up to misuse and abuse.
Well you can tell he hates backing into a spot 😃
The cable length wouldn't have been a problem if you would have backed in about 4 more feet! @8:30
Loves should do this because they always have space, a dog park and the store to grab snacks.
Exactly, but Love’s is not doing anything with charging at the present time and as far as I know they have no plans going forward as yet. There are a few Electrify America stations near Love’s but they do not have anything to do with the company.
@@glenngore6609 they put in rv parking locations. Seems like the store makes money and evs stop for more than 10 minutes
Loves,Buccees,Flying J and the others should have been first. It'll make them a ton of revenue
Yep, one would think. Buccees should be investing in chargers at all their locations for sure, but so far they only have 1 Supercharger site at one of their locations, and that was done by Tesla, not Buccees. Texas is WAY behind in charger installations in general. If you are not traveling I-35, good luck. No US or Texas state highways are covered at all. There isn’t s single DCFC in either Lubbock or Wichita Falls!
Convenience chains would make lots of money with EV owners stuck at their stores for an hour or so while charging. @@roodick85
Loves is starting to do this with EA
I really think apartment complexes, supermarkets and department store parking lots are ideal early rapid charging targets. So many young renters out there, and they are all probably the most inclined to adopt EVs early. And shopping time is perfect for a quick charge.
Apartments should be fine with level 2 (lots of them in California now have this)
The issue is the demographics of new car buyers… 90% own their own home.
Our local public elementary school now has chargers in the lot for staff and the public. That's in a village of 550 people. And one FRUNKENSTEIN!
@@KalleSWBeck Yes, and it's easy to purchase and install a Level 2 Charging Station at home. I've had one since 2018.
OFC, it is very easy...... when you're entitled and rich ....
@@nc3826 I'm far from rich and the charging station paid for itself in a year via gas savings.
They’re 180kw capable. But they cheaped on the cables so they opted for the 2x90kw configuration vs sharing 180 kw or getting the full 180 if you’re alone as their cables can’t push that much current. Probably intentional savings because I would imagine most of their stores don’t have the electrical infrastructure capability to deliver 180. They should have gone for a battery supported solution like FireWire
Every Ev only wants the highest charging rate.... but disregard the added cost of the infrastructure and the electrical capacity of the service lines and the demand charges....
And still want it to have an Inexpensive charging rate And a reliable easy charging experience.... Good luck with that....
The only problem is, the huge amount of money they would have to invest, compared to usage. Would the equipment bring enough revenue to pay for itself within its service life? If they can't make a profit, they won't invest the hundreds of thousands of $'s.
@@vincentrobinette1507 Yep, folks should be lucky they have these. The charge rate is pretty decent, I would be more concerned about the spaces being ICEd out, they need to put tow away signs on those spaces like they do with the handicap spots.
This is ok though. I'd not use 7/11s charger network to ram as much electricity in my car as quickly as possible, but to add about 60-80 miles of range in about 15 minutes. Quick add. Then charge at home or find another 150-350kw charger a little further down the road if nothing available there
Hopefully, running them at only half their rated output will improve reliability.
Don’t blame the cable when you didn’t back up far enough. Once you adjust to driving the same EV and learning where your port is, you will learn to back up more to make it easier on yourself.
I agree, he stopped 4ft short of the charger and then complained about the cable.
Roman's going to be driving a different car every week until he retires. That's the job. It's why auto journalists can get really fussy about nonstandard minor controls.
Christ. He didn't even tried to hide the fact that he parked almost a meter and a half away from the charger. What a dumb a55.
Other than that this charging session looked as good as anyone should expect.
Getting a foot in the door is more important than getting the details (charging speed, shed over chargers, etc) right out of the gate. Reliability would be a much more important goal at this point, and if there is money to be made at it, 7-11 will get there.
Reliability is paramount right now!
A lot of people forget that the history of gas stations was that pumps were being installed at convenience stores. So 7-11 doing this is both a throwback and natural.
why don't tesla super chargers break down like other fast charger stations?
Interesting, they have chosen Alway Be Broken chargers. They always have this great delay before they start is my feeling. I'm always at the lookout for Kempower here in Norway because they always works and they usually have around 10-16 chargers at every location. That's because their main charging unit has around 600kw of power which they then distribute to "satellite" poles.
So far, Kemppi is only known for their welders outside scandinavia. I believe their DC fast charging systems are some of the best on the market, but they dont have the production capacity yet to expand outside scandinavia at significant scale.
Do you have ionity? They see good too. Maybe.
@@treborheminway3814 I haven't used them, but a friend of mine I have traveled Norway-France using their network and are very happy with them and are going on a trips this year Norway- France - UK. using a Ford Mustang Mach E if you wondered. So yes, they seem very reliable.
I've had to use gas for the first time in several years over the last couple months, and three of the four gas stations I stopped at had multiple pumps down and out of service, which matches my experiences from driving gas cars for the last 20 to 30 years. No one complained: they moved to the next working pump, they waited for a pump, or they went to another gas station. However, I keep hearing this take that EV chargers need to be as reliable gas pumps, but reliability isn't the actual issue. The issue is not having multiple other options on-site and nearby.
In the parts of the country where people seem to be struggling with EA the most, a majority of the sites appear to be only four chargers. If they were 8 to 10 charger sites, no one there would even be mentioning the fact that one or two of the chargers are down. They'd just move to the next charger. And as the EV population grows, people aren't going to be upset if a site goes down for a day or two if there's an 8 to 10 charger EVgo site across the street and an 8 to 10 charger ChargePoint site a block down.
Very well said. Where I am in Cobb county GA we have pumps down and station's out of various grades of fuel and sometimes all grades every year. And all around at the large discount stores like same club and Costco fools sit in long lines waiting 15-45+mins to fuel up at cheaper prices.
@@4literv6 BS
I can count on both hands the number of times I have not been able to get gas over the last 30 years. About 750k miles of driving.
It isn’t even close to the number of ev chargers that don’t work.
Sometimes I wonder why they are even putting chargers in if they don’t care about maintaining them.
@@AJourneyOfYourSoul and I need a lot more than all 20 of my fingers n toes to get there in my 27 years now of driving and owning over 80+vehicle's.
And despite the fact people brag about gas stations literally everywhere? Over 800,000+Americans run out of gas every year.
It's the #1 roadside rollout for AAA. The #1 open recall right now across all ice is for the risk of FIRE. Facts are funny thing's aren't they. 🤔
@@AJourneyOfYourSoul Again, the question isn't about "not being able to get gas." The question is: How reliable do EV chargers actually need to be? The average gas station has about 8 pumps, and there are over 150,000 gas stations in the U.S. The average charging site has fewer than 3 dispensers, and there are only about 5,000 public fast charging sites in the U.S. So just on the surface alone, EV chargers need to be 30 times more reliable than gas pumps to have a similar experience.
It sounds like we have been driving for a similar amount of time, but I might have logged a lot more miles than you. Regardless, I've lost count of the times I've run across pumps that were out of service, and I'd run out of fingers and toes counting the times an entire station has been down. It just doesn't register for gas drivers because they only have to cross the street to get to another station.
Thx for the vid. Exciting times. There are four new DCFC networks I have my eye on and I think any one of them could be a game changer. Ultium Charge 360 at Pilot/FlyingJ, Circle K, 7-11, & Subway. Of those, I am most hopeful for the GM one, as placing at interstate truck stops makes so much sense for road tripping. The other three are more likely going to help out adoption for people who live in apartments, condos, town homes that do not have home charging.
Perfect for Subway. Go there, plug in, get a sandwich. 20-30 minutes later, on your way
I would be willing to bet that downloading the app and connecting it to a card would have given him a better rate as well
Not necessarily. The charge cable is not liquid cooled, like Tesla or Charge America stations. The fact that it relies on passive air cooling limits the current that can be passed through the charging cable. That's also why the cable is so big and heavy. Basically, they put a J-1772 connector on a CHAdeMO cable.
While these aren't the most powerful chargers, lets hope they're among the most reliable...Time will tell!!
@@vincentrobinette1507, I’m betting the OP meant rate per kWh… not how fast the charger is.
@@vincentrobinette1507 I did mean the dollar amount when I referenced rate my apologies for the confusion but the kilowatts per hour rate you are correct
Paying with credit card is a lot easier
I'm sold on the 'pay at the pump' VISA card system. Just like a gas station. The fact that it offers both CHAdeMO and J-1772 enhanced, (CCS) means that ANY electric car can charge there. (Tesla needs its CCS adapter) I really like the fact, that you DON'T need an "app" to use the charge station. 90kW seems a little down, but, not to bad. I'm sure you noticed, that the charge cable is really heavy. That's because this cable is NOT liquid cooled, like the ones used on Tesla and Electrify America chargers, so, the cable has to be much heavier to handle the high amperage, with passive air cooling. That allows the cable to be longer, with a hangar tie, similar to a hose at a gasoline/diesel pump. This type of charge station would be ideal at shopping centers, restaurants, or movie theatres, where you're going to be doing something for a while, rather than trying to fall asleep in your car for an hour, waiting for it to charge enough to get to your destination.
It seems odd that 7-11 went this route. Every grocery store, shopping center and theater should have a big bank of these plus even more L2. Once that happens (and it will), the charging problem for apartment dwellers will be mostly taken care of.
I suppose a lot of 7-11 stores have other things to do nearby. So not every user will be sitting for a half hour eating super unhealthy food and drinking coffee.
1:15 It's important to emphasize that Tesla has 17,711 Supercharger *stalls*, not locations. Really, not even chargers. It's 17,111 dispensers (many of which share power) spread over about 1,700 sites, which is roughly the same number of locations as Electrify America and EVgo combined. There's no arguing that Tesla is the largest charging provider in the United States, but they are nowhere near as far ahead as some of the numbers might indicate. It's the way that they are ahead that's important, but as you noted, they're going to need to do more than open 12 of their sites to compete with the public charging providers.
Exactly on that Tesla count. Considering some of their stations are huge. Kettleman City, CA (along I-5 in Central California) has two sites that are a 5 minute walk from each other. One is like 90 the other around 40.
They are also putting in the state of Florida, there are about 6 locations with them. It's a very good idea to have more options. Thanks for the video.
The real game changer is when Kempower starts production in the US, they are a Finnish company and are the best chargers i have ever used here in Sweden, with great reliability, modularity, cable handling and screen with ability to scan a qr code to take the charging info with you on your smartphone
Fun fact: Convenience store sales account for 30% of a gas stations' revenue, and 70% of their profits.
People who fast charge are more likely to go into the store to "drain the tank" and are thus more likely to buy very profitable drinks & snacks.
Now if only they would add some canopies to the charging spots...
I would change my grocery store if there one near me where I could charge while I shop. Same with malls and restaurants.
Also it seems like 711 will eventually allow power sharing between its dispensers so if there's only one car charging it can recieve up to 180kW
oh oh oh score!!!🤣🤣🤣
Fact:
I was born and raised in Germany and am now living in the US (specifically Austin, Texas), and since I bought my Tesla X, I will never buy an EV with CCS (1&2) & CHADEMO charging port, as they are not just UGLY, but they are also OPD TECHNOLOGY, HEAVY & BULKY.
I wish that EVERY EV manufacturer will use TESLA charging port (NACS) 😊and be done with it, period.
Have a great day to y'all! 0:01
If they made the chargers capable of higher charging speeds you wouldn’t have enough time to go into their store and then stand in line to pay!
Circle K is going to be adding to the network and they will take credit card
CircleK is apparently also planning on building out a network. Between the two of them, that should be a good thing.
soon the charge port will be on the roof thanks to his suggestion🤣🤣
We got similar chargers at some Petro Canada locations in Canada. They take visa tap and they go up to 350kW.
Except they never are working.
Canada needs this even more than the US. It's my impression that their network is even worse than the US
Combine this with the circle K push to add chargers and it's a game changer. I really want to go EV (Rivian R1T) but I need to tow a 3k boat/trailer 150 miles one way to the coast of NC in a charging desert.
Nick there are several charging stations in Hatteras. I’m sure there are others in the OBX
anybody that does a lot of long distance heavy towing.... A range extended EV or a PHEV makes more sense.... The Ram REV will be interesting option...
@@nc3826 Yep the first 3/4 or 1 ton PHEV pickup to market with decent reviews and I'm buying it. It has to have a decent EV range though, at least 50 km unladen in winter for simple around town tasks, that way I can drive to work on EV only and charge there, and again when I get back home. I would also like at least 700 km highway range when running on the hybrid diesel setup also.
I'm new to EV charging however downloading the app always gives me a better rate and here in Indiana it's only 8.5 from 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
I've noticed EA gives you a better rate if you become a member. Which is...$5/month! However, I charge almost exclusively at home, so meh
In other countries all the supermarkets provide free chargers if you shop.
11:37 CHAdeMO isn't restricted to 50 kW, and on those units, it should be capable of the same power that you saw out of the CCS plug (about 200 A). The bigger problem for CHAdeMO is that no one made liquid-cooled cables, so they are restricted to 100 kW, even when they are installed on faster chargers. Of course, if someone wanted to make an 800 V CHAdeMO EV, it could technically charge at 150+ kW on many of the plugs that are currently deployed.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, until someone comes out with a quick and easy CCS kit, most people are defaulting to CHAdeMO for their DCFC needs on DIY and conversion EVs.
I have never seen a 100kw Chademo, only 50kw. A 100kw Chademo would have a very thick cable that would be difficult to maneuver safely.
@@jackfender9274 It could be where you're located. All the CHAdeMO connectors on the new EVgo sites are 100 kW, as are the CHAdeMO cables on Freewire chargers. Again, it's only 200 A, so it's as manageable as the 200 A, non-liquid-cooled CCS cables.
Not only the smaller cables than others, but the cold weather can also affect how much your Volvo will take in. It would be perfect for my EUV. I believe that here in California all new installs must have a screen, so no app required.
There are a lot of requirements for EVSE now. The CTEP database has less than 30 and only the ABB Tera DCFC are in there. Everything else is L2. Not sure how anyone else is getting a charger installed.
Sheetz gas stations have Tesla SC in WV, and PA. Wawa gas stations in Florida also have them.
My wife’s already making plans as to where she’s gonna mount our home Level-2 charger.
I have a level 2 charger but I have been level 1 charging (8A120VAC) for the past year to put minimum wear on the battery and I just don't need the extra charge considering how many km I put on the car daily. The only time the level 2 gets use is when a friend or family member needs a quick top off when they visit.
Roman, another thing they can do is, I have seen portable chargers where it has a solar canopy on it. So then, at least during the day, you're getting green power locally, and also sheltering the car and yourself from the elements, to some extent. 🙂
Why would you park so far away from the charger?!? No wonder you were wrestling the cord 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ starting to question if Roman is really in favor of EV’s or he’s just using TFL to bash on EV’s. I know there’s issues that we can’t ignore but he’s owned several EV’s you’d think he knows how to park to charge. 6:30
Maybe 7-11 will be the one that finally gets it right when it comes to DC fast charging. Simple, pay-as-you-go, grab something to eat and take a restroom break plus it's not at the corner or back in a parking lot. This is what we'd like to see. Reliability is the key here.
Will you report on this charger @ Rate Your Charge? Would be nice!
Don’t have roofs, because you don’t need to stay at the charger stall while it charges. You do have to stand by by gas pump while your car fills though.
The ICE car parking in an EV stall. Kind of says it all.
why did you park so far away from the 7/11 charger and made the connection so much drama? also all you had to do was press the release to unhook the charger from Electrify America charger...
It's my understanding that the ABB chargers at 7eleven are currently only 90kwh due to the cable they chose, it could easily be upgraded to 150 with a cable swap, but unfortunately not 350 easily.
90 kW should be enough for most city dwellers to get a few days worth of kms when they stop off to get in line for their smokes and lottery tickets.
"it's pretty heavy", "you shouldn't have to work out to plug in..." doesn't sound like competition to Tesla's standard. That's a huge point imo for all CCS. The technology and ergonomics.
For safety chargers in the rear make sense. Backing upon arrival is always safer than backing out of a parking spot.
Qt gas station should definitely do this also racetrack that would eliminate a lot of travel anxiety in the south for sure
Honest question: Flo Chargers sponsors many (if not all) of your TFLEV videos, yet, I don't know that I've ever seen you use them (maybe on the Lighting to Alaska trip?). Are there no Flo Chargers in Colorado?
Need more covered parking, always feel like a 2nd class citizen whenever charging lol
8:30 parking fail caused cord not to reach easily hassle. Looks like you were easily 3 feet from the bollard in front of the charger.
Circle K is trying out 180KWh chargers right now. Hopefully they roll those out soon to all Circle Ks.
8:00 they are 200A cable limited.
Glad they did chadeno. I have a Leaf, and need a few more chargers in my area
I see a few in DFW. None in Minnesota where I travel to :-( So far!
Anytime I've gotten that error on EA it's usually because of poor cell service so I have to swipe my card and it will work. The problem with that is that swiping my card doesn't connect with my account so I lose the discount.
Roman, why did you park so far away from the charger? Do you normally park across the street from the gas station you select? This is another a Roman artificial problem.
Circle K has started rolling this out too. The Rock Hill, SC location has several chargers.
I can see why EVS dont need a canopy , you can be comfortable inside your car while you charge since it takes a while . With ICE cars its a quick fill up so you wait outside with the elements pouring over you. 🤔
like they say, the more options and conveniently placed, the better. If you are going to stop for a snack/coffee anyway, it helps get some extra juice until you hit the real DCFC and saves you extra time each stop.
I honestly don't know why it's taken this many years for even a few convenience store chains to start building their own charger networks. They make their money drawing in people who need fuel and and selling them other things like food at the same time. And ten years from now a lot of that demand for fuel is going to be replaced with demand for fast charging.
Perhaps you wouldn't have to wrestle with the cable so much if you didn't park a mile away from the charger. Just a thought.
Two round trips to Missouri and a cross country round trip in 2019.
7-11 Purchased Speedway gas last year. Perhaps they will add EV charging at some of those stations. However, most gas stations are to small to have cars sitting around for a 1/2 hour or so. Of the 6 stations in our town, none of them have the room for EV charging. Just a thought.
Wish WaWa in NJ would do this.
I think the roof is driven by fire code. They have huge fire suppression systems in there
Not much of an option here on the Maine coast. The closest 7-11 is 160 miles away and is a 2h45m drive on a good day.
You have to put the car closer to the charge station. You had plenty of space.
I am wondering why the big box stores with a lot of parking don’t put chargers in? It would give them another revenue stream and draw people to their stores while also enticing to stay in their stores longer.
Its all about ROI (return on investment) an Installation of a 100kw charging station is about $200k at current market price. Also they might not be equipped to provide that load currently, requiring more investment. So a small 4 charger stall can easily go to 1+ million in investment. The math might not add up.
Love your TFLC jacket Roman.
Gas stations are the obvious place to have these aside from shopping centers. Really hope more chargers get put in because it's abysmal right now
Charge stations really don't make much sense at a corner gas station, because how long it takes to charge. They do make perfect sense at a travel plaza, that features fast-food places, and perhaps, even a restaurant. Something to 'pass the time', while waiting for the car to charge. Parks and recreation centers are also good places for EV charge stations.
That's what I thought for awhile. But, after doing several short road trips in my Bolt that go just a few miles beyond the car's range, I've realized that the most of the trips I actually need to charge, the charge only lasts for a few minutes - and that's in a slow-charging Bolt, limited to 50 kW. That's because my typical use case doesn't require charging to full, or even 80%, but rather, pulling up to a charge 50 miles from home with 50 miles of range, and simply wanting enough of an energy buffer to make it home reliably and safely. Once I'm home, I can use my much-cheaper home charger to charge up the rest of the way. For charge stops this short, the only amenity I really care about is a restroom, and for this purpose, a gas station charger is good enough.
Of course, gas station chargers are not for all use cases - if I did not have home charging, and needed to rely on public charging for all of my driving, I would focus more on what's nearby that I can walk to, so I can plug in longer and have stuff to do. But, for quick charges at the end of a road trip, gas station chargers are perfect.
I have always heard that gas stations make most of their profits off in store sales not the fuel. EV charging stations should also have covered dispensers, like most gas stations. Not even Tesla does that. Circle K is supposedly doing the same thing at their stores.
I personally dont think the screen is necessary. I think you should either entirely use the app. Or, have it like a vending machine where the words pop up on a little tiny screen above/on the credit card reader that say, 1. connect your car, 2. swipe card.
Info about the charge can be found on your vehicles screen or app, so I dont really need to see that.
Maybe an out of order light would be cool too
7-11 has alot of learning to do. I've tried there chargers here in Central Florida and they don't work. They shut down unexpectedly, charge at low rates and have difficulty starting to charge. In one session they double charged me and it took multiple calls and almost a month to get my refund.
I worked for Shell gas before and they told me right off the bat they only make Pennies on the gallon and makes the majority of their money on store sales.
90 kw? It’s not that bad in a pinch but why 150 which is very doable.
Another great video! While not the best, at least they are smart enough to offer it, because you and anyone else are more likely to spend $$ in their store when plugged in there. I’m waiting for a Pilot or Loves gas stations to add chargers in bulk. That would be a traveling game changer.
I agree. Large travel centers are ideal for EV charge stations.
I cannot recall the last time I saw advertised peak charging, they always seem throttled. Also, we know by now that peak speeds bring heat and therefore wear so we need to concentrate on the charge curve. Last, to your first point, EA is always down.
That said, I'm fine with 711 at 90kw... as long as 90kw is reliable. Plus you get windshield wash stations, garbage cans, restrooms, and quick food.
The thickness of that charging cable looked more like a fire hose. Compare that to the Tesla cable which looks to be about 1/4 the diameter (just a guess by watching the video).
Agreed... you didn't back up close enough which is why you struggled with the connection.
I think the chargers will be built primarily at gas stations, most of which have convenience stores and restrooms. Opening up the Tesla network will make a huge diffence, and piss off Teslarati who might have to wait for the Chevy Bolt to finish up. I wonder how soon these charging companies will up their costs......
The problem with 7/11 adding chargers is the layout of the chargers , (no roof) is being added on to the site so the layout of the parking gas, electric is not correct hopefully on new stores they’ll lay it out like gas pumps.
not in NY, I had an ev a few years ago, only 711 charger was old crap that did not work
They should make it so you just pull in to the parking spot and it automatically connects from underneath.
Then make it so every single parking spot has a charger.
Everywhere you park throughout the day is charging your vehicle.
But we can’t even get reliable internet or cell coverage after 30+ years, so don’t hold your breath.
8:38 gas stations make money on the convenience store so it was really odd (intentional?) to comment on making money charging vs the same as the gas fillup reason!
The same ICE people who park in EV only spots also take handicap spots. There is a special place in hell for them.
Addicted as always TFL ... 😊...HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY EVERYONE ✌️
7-11 calls their station "7 Charge?" For faster service, Spinal Tap suggests calling it, "11 Charge."
I would totally go into the store for snacks and a newspaper
Convenience shops seem an ideal place for EV chargers, they have parking plus other facilities. As stated, a canopy over the EV chargers is a no brainer. The issue in getting the cable to reach seemed to be parking about 5 miles away from the charger 😉 Yes, they need more than 90kW chargers, if the local grid is the issue, they should get battery storage
Not all Chademo chargers are 50 kw. My 2019 LEAF takes 100 kW. Fper Wikipedia "irst-generation CHAdeMO connectors deliver up to 62.5 kW by 500 V, 125 A direct current[2] through a proprietary electrical connector, adding about 120 kilometres (75 mi) of range in a half an hour. It has been included in several international vehicle charging standards.
The second-generation specification allows for up to 400 kW by 1 kV, 400 A direct current.[3][4] The CHAdeMO Association is currently co-developing with China Electricity Council (CEC) the third-generation standard with the working name of “ChaoJi” that aims to deliver 900 kW.[5]"
I agree. The charging port should be in the middle on the front of every car.
California has a plan to go EV universally. The only problem is, the grid can't support the state's current electricity requirements. My area experienced half a dozen blackout/brownouts this winter. Even more disappointing, the majority of electricity is still generated using fossil fuels.
Gasoline works 99% of the time. In fact, I could the number of times on one hand in the last 20 years. I think I had an issue with my credit card, and in that case I just drove across the street.
BTW, I didn't even know they still made Volvos or that people still drove them.
Brilliant that these major gas station chains (along interstates) and quick-marts (7-Eleven) are adding electric charging stations. Hopefully they will be better maintained, since they can provide additional revenue to the store.
Seems like the Captain Obvious thing to do if they still want to be in business in 10 years.
Cable would have been a lot easier to insert if there wasn't an additional 6 ft of space needed from neglecting to back in far enough.
Use the app, save money typically.
Use the app, keep an eye on your charge level status while shopping.... tech can be amazing if you embrace it.
Chademo tops out at 100kw...not 50kw. Details are important.
Gas stations make a lot more on convenience store margins than fuel sales. They'll need to start courting EV consumers.
90kW is rough, but more CCS stations that (might?) be maintained more frequently than current networks is a good thing long term.
7 - 11 Thanks. I live in Ohio we need good public charging. EV America sucks in Ohio and Michigan. Looking forward to seeing 7/11 chargers.
6:20. There seems to be an issue
Was the battery in the Volvo pre heated? Chinese made vehicle. We can see it's COLD outside.
That's a nice Klim jacket.
1) Had he parked closer than 3' from the parking stops, the cable would have reached easily 2) he's exactly right about the charging stations NOT being covered, like gas pumps are. Why is that? 3) I agree that charge port location should be standardized. By not having a standard, EV manufacturers are building in a barrier to adoption.
It may 90kw right now but they are already testing higher output chargers. It's the price they're charging that might be a deal breaker. Another video I was watching they were charging 57 cents per kw although it was 150kw charger. But that's still to high.
sounds perfect for the bolt
YAY 7-11!! And BTW, our Tesla only charges at about 78kWh in the cold also, when we haven't pre-conditioned the battery, which I assume you didn't, so that 78 sounds right to me. Not sure if the Volvo pre-conditions, but if it does, maybe try again.
But can you mix cherry and cola flavors?
10:49 penalty for a violation is a $150 fine and a $32 surcharge.
They've been doing these in Europe and they're amazing! Hopefully it'll be the same treatment for the states