Great conversation, pretty much quintessential! Having been around during my twenties in the sixties, I feel experienced enough to say that Sam is right about psychedelics in regard to believing that type of experience is "the experience". Losing the delusion of self requires no special state, just practice, observation and learning. That being said, the learned habit of this delusion reinforced by culture is so powerful that hallucinogens can have a very useful part to play. We can observe how one can be gripped by fearful or weird thoughts and negative emotions at any moment. Under the influence of drugs this can be magnified exponentially which can make thought and emotion terrifying to say the least. The way to deal with these experiences is to let them be as they are. Obviously if we are getting instructions from a dark entity to let's say kill our mate we don't act on it. Any thought or emotion is just that, a thought or emotion, anything can pop up in consciousness and does. To get past these difficult experiences one must allow them to be without trying to understand them. Trying to understand is a kind of resistance. Once it passes, then it is OK to want to understand. There was a popular book in the sixties no bigger then a booklet you might find on a new product of some kind. It was called 'the lazy mans guide to enlightenment' it was basically about two words 'no resistance'.
I actually enjoy Sam on Rogan more in one sense. If you like Sam he has a podcast loaded with intellectual guests having difficult intellectual conversations. It's kind of nice hearing him just 'fuck around' and have a good time in a different way when he does Rogan. It's also nice having someone extremely articulate to explain some things to Joe. This happened a lot more in the first 2 times he went on Rogan, where Joe didn't know Sam as well and thought he was on the mental ground to argue points he was not.
Csquared ha “thought he was on the mental ground to argue certain points.” I love Joe Rogan but that’s a pretty consistent explanation of Joe’s perspective at times.
There is still a part of the world and a portion of the world population who feel that burning "heretics" and going on "crusades" is acceptable. This should not be news to us. There is still a huge portion of people in the more progressive part of the world who deny global warming. People are weird in ways we can't comprehend. I like Sam's work. Especially his work on dogma and free will which did not get a mention. While these are very polarising topics and are attention grabbers, I feel as through we should invest more on finding sustainable solutions to these problems rather than complaining about them.
+super freak That is EXACTLY the meat of the matter. The main problem with Islam (other han all religion being ludicrous) is it hasn't gone through reformation. Without reformation Islam will continue to be a root of extremism and not compatible with modern society.
"Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God" -- Deuteronomy 13:6-11 _also_ "...whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman." -- 2nd Chronicles, 15: 13 _also_ "Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God...?" -- Hebrews 10: 26-29 _also_ ... there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2nd Peter 2:1 _also_ ... Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. - Jude 1:1-25 (NT) The last three of these are from the New Testament, so we're not just talking about Judaism, but about Christianity!
Seems like he doesn't have deep understanding of Islam , he is just that other guy who believe in the narrative built up against a whole community , disappointed ☹️☹️
not a fan of islam here, but the common counter-argument to islam leads to terror etc blabla is that ISIS hacked Islam in a way. I am lacking knowledge and understanding of islam, so i can't tell, but it doesn't seem to be so far fetched when you see how there more muslims not involved into terror-attacks than there are jihadist on the ISIS side. Would love to hear some opinions on that.
"Anger is an acid which hurts the vessel which contains it more than anything it could be thrown on". Bullshit. I'd say someone like that mass shooter Brevik did infinitely more harm with his hatred than he could possibly suffer as a consequence of it. I could think of a million similar examples.
Serendra Hardu Strictly speaking the aphorism says it "can" do more damage to the vessel etc.. You removed the conditional part of the quote. Still, I agree about these kinds of vacuous sayings. They're a mile wide and an inch deep.
Serendra Hardu Maybe it meant in general? It's probably culturally specific too. In Somalia, avoid angry people. In Britain, avoid being angry yourself.
So psychedelics can give blissful experiences or very negative ones. Playing with the brain in this way is like a lottery. Is it possible I wonder for deep meditation to be the same?
As Nietzsche once pointed out: "Islam presupposes Men". The word "Islam", of course means "Peace". But its adherents, if I understand it correctly, are also required to 'fight injustice'....Sam Harris is apparently so timid, he doesn't have the courage to admit, even to himself, that far from being an Atheist, he is, in fact, a fully paid-up believer in Mysticism - the root cause of the religion he effects to despise....The word 'democracy' means ;government by the people'. At any rate in concern with representative democracy, this is a contradiction in terms and thus a mystical concept. Poor Sam is terribly perplexed by the fact that if you attempt to impose your mystical beliefs on others, even if, in a very cowardly manner, by bombing them from a great height: you are going to encounter Resistance. At any rate by Muslims. (What else is new?)..........Continuing to cast about, he opines that the experiences to be gained through a piece of crap called 'Mindfulness', and what he calls Meditation are any less petty, any less relevant to the genuinely fundamental questions of existence than are those to be obtained on Acid.....This currently fashionable belief will, of course, pass off, even if it's taking a disgustingly long time......But there's no time to lose; because he is at least intelligent enough to understand that the barbarians are at the gate!
+mule dunn One 'meaning' of the word is certainly 'peace', but I do accept that I was misinterpreting the context of said 'peace'. Although we should bear in mind we are not discussing what Muslims you know, or politicians, think, but what's the actual derivation/etymology of the word (always a more reliable guide!)
+mule dunn Well: if you look up the Wikipedia article (and other sources), you will see that one possible 'translation' of the word is 'peace'; but as I have already said several times: I was originally using the word incorrectly out of context.....How many fucking times do I have to answer this point?
starts at 5:42
Tim always asks the most well-thought-out, interesting questions. Awesome interviewer.
LONGER CASTS! Sam talked with Joe Rogan for like 3 hours! Can't get enough of you two.
Did Sam say "take care bro" at the end??
Daniel Beatty was Tim awkward at the end? Or was it just me who thinks that
No, just a rather abrupt ending.
Daniel Beatty he kinda just made my day with that
I only thought the other day about the similarities between these two and wished they would do a podcast but here it is!
Great conversation, pretty much quintessential! Having been around during my twenties in the sixties, I feel experienced enough to say that Sam is right about psychedelics in regard to believing that type of experience is "the experience". Losing the delusion of self requires no special state, just practice, observation and learning. That being said, the learned habit of this delusion reinforced by culture is so powerful that hallucinogens can have a very useful part to play. We can observe how one can be gripped by fearful or weird thoughts and negative emotions at any moment. Under the influence of drugs this can be magnified exponentially which can make thought and emotion terrifying to say the least. The way to deal with these experiences is to let them be as they are. Obviously if we are getting instructions from a dark entity to let's say kill our mate we don't act on it. Any thought or emotion is just that, a thought or emotion, anything can pop up in consciousness and does. To get past these difficult experiences one must allow them to be without trying to understand them. Trying to understand is a kind of resistance. Once it passes, then it is OK to want to understand. There was a popular book in the sixties no bigger then a booklet you might find on a new product of some kind. It was called 'the lazy mans guide to enlightenment' it was basically about two words 'no resistance'.
Thanks Tim for these podcasts man they are so informative
Great-soulled Sam
Fantastic interview Tim
49:49 - drugs to meditation talk .. very interesting!
Has there been an episode 2?
Such a deeper, more intelligent conversation than with joe rogan. He didn't have to take him by the hand, Sam harris is admirable.
I actually enjoy Sam on Rogan more in one sense. If you like Sam he has a podcast loaded with intellectual guests having difficult intellectual conversations. It's kind of nice hearing him just 'fuck around' and have a good time in a different way when he does Rogan. It's also nice having someone extremely articulate to explain some things to Joe. This happened a lot more in the first 2 times he went on Rogan, where Joe didn't know Sam as well and thought he was on the mental ground to argue points he was not.
Csquared ha “thought he was on the mental ground to argue certain points.” I love Joe Rogan but that’s a pretty consistent explanation of Joe’s perspective at times.
Good interview
Great podcast
There is still a part of the world and a portion of the world population who feel that burning "heretics" and going on "crusades" is acceptable. This should not be news to us. There is still a huge portion of people in the more progressive part of the world who deny global warming. People are weird in ways we can't comprehend.
I like Sam's work. Especially his work on dogma and free will which did not get a mention. While these are very polarising topics and are attention grabbers, I feel as through we should invest more on finding sustainable solutions to these problems rather than complaining about them.
Guten Tag Tim :-)
Apostasy is also punishable by death in Judaism btw
No it isn't
Thomas Brooks yes it is, google it
+super freak That is EXACTLY the meat of the matter. The main problem with Islam (other han all religion being ludicrous) is it hasn't gone through reformation. Without reformation Islam will continue to be a root of extremism and not compatible with modern society.
How do secular Muslims justify their lack of literal adherence to scripture? Who is the most influential secular Muslim within the Muslim world?
"Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God" -- Deuteronomy 13:6-11
_also_
"...whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman."
-- 2nd Chronicles, 15: 13
_also_
"Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God...?" -- Hebrews 10: 26-29
_also_
... there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2nd Peter 2:1
_also_
... Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. - Jude 1:1-25 (NT)
The last three of these are from the New Testament, so we're not just talking about Judaism, but about Christianity!
Why do I keep finding that anger quote to be attributed to Mark Twain?
Is this a new episode?
Lol what an starting cracked me off
would you please give a reference to Quran where it is teaching to love death more than life? chapter or page ?
Ser Box Religions that have paradises tend to value them more than the material world.
Guess. 9 11 01
Seems like he doesn't have deep understanding of Islam , he is just that other guy who believe in the narrative built up against a whole community , disappointed ☹️☹️
this was recorded over a telegram line
not a fan of islam here, but the common counter-argument to islam leads to terror etc blabla is that ISIS hacked Islam in a way. I am lacking knowledge and understanding of islam, so i can't tell, but it doesn't seem to be so far fetched when you see how there more muslims not involved into terror-attacks than there are jihadist on the ISIS side.
Would love to hear some opinions on that.
Try the book Islam and the future of tolerance by Sam Harris and Majid Nawaz. I don't agree with everything in it but it's still very interesting
"Anger is an acid which hurts the vessel which contains it more than anything it could be thrown on".
Bullshit. I'd say someone like that mass shooter Brevik did infinitely more harm with his hatred than he could possibly suffer as a consequence of it. I could think of a million similar examples.
Serendra Hardu I agree.
Serendra Hardu Yes and I could think of a billion examples of the truth of that claim.
***** You know what you call something (like that cheap aphorism I spoke of) which is only seems to be true occasionally? Bullshit.
Serendra Hardu Strictly speaking the aphorism says it "can" do more damage to the vessel etc.. You removed the conditional part of the quote.
Still, I agree about these kinds of vacuous sayings. They're a mile wide and an inch deep.
Serendra Hardu Maybe it meant in general? It's probably culturally specific too. In Somalia, avoid angry people. In Britain, avoid being angry yourself.
55:25 trolley problem??
Eck Cetera? lol
Right? I'm more fond of the alternate pronunciation, "Et setch-ruh."
Classical Roman Latin: et ketera.
Ecclesiastic Latin: et chetera
Yul Bryner Latin: et setera
At least there is no Eck Cetera....
So psychedelics can give blissful experiences or very negative ones. Playing with the brain in this way is like a lottery. Is it possible I wonder for deep meditation to be the same?
Phd on Spirituality and Meditation, wtf?
Sonu Shetty Actually, PhD in Neuroscinece. You probably misread the description, it says Sam Harris, PhD ON spirituality, meditation etc.
This is so interesting and cool yet justin bieber with his shirt off get millions of views.... So sad
This was so disappointing, this guy clearly has not done his research on other religions.
Wtf is happening here, some kind of echo chamber lads spewing out their ideologies? So weird that the classics appear to know one another
As Nietzsche once pointed out: "Islam presupposes Men". The word "Islam", of course means "Peace". But its adherents, if I understand it correctly, are also required to 'fight injustice'....Sam Harris is apparently so timid, he doesn't have the courage to admit, even to himself, that far from being an Atheist, he is, in fact, a fully paid-up believer in Mysticism - the root cause of the religion he effects to despise....The word 'democracy' means ;government by the people'. At any rate in concern with representative democracy, this is a contradiction in terms and thus a mystical concept. Poor Sam is terribly perplexed by the fact that if you attempt to impose your mystical beliefs on others, even if, in a very cowardly manner, by bombing them from a great height: you are going to encounter Resistance. At any rate by Muslims. (What else is new?)..........Continuing to cast about, he opines that the experiences to be gained through a piece of crap called 'Mindfulness', and what he calls Meditation are any less petty, any less relevant to the genuinely fundamental questions of existence than are those to be obtained on Acid.....This currently fashionable belief will, of course, pass off, even if it's taking a disgustingly long time......But there's no time to lose; because he is at least intelligent enough to understand that the barbarians are at the gate!
+tim13354 Islam doesn't mean peace, it means submission. That should also give an idea of what it's all about.
+Joshua Davis Ah. It apparently means a number of things (one of which is peace), but you are right: it doesn't just mean peace.
+mule dunn One 'meaning' of the word is certainly 'peace', but I do accept that I was misinterpreting the context of said 'peace'. Although we should bear in mind we are not discussing what Muslims you know, or politicians, think, but what's the actual derivation/etymology of the word (always a more reliable guide!)
+tim13354 from Arabic 'islām ‘submission’, from 'aslama ‘submit (to God)’
+mule dunn Well: if you look up the Wikipedia article (and other sources), you will see that one possible 'translation' of the word is 'peace'; but as I have already said several times: I was originally using the word incorrectly out of context.....How many fucking times do I have to answer this point?