CINDER - the OTHER incomplete-dominant mutation?? Corn Snake Morph Deep Dive #23
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Cinder is now considered to be incomplete-dominant, AND also no longer considered to be Anerythristic!
Some photos by Sabrina Shleip.
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Photos by: Skye Pony Reptiles, Children of the Cornsnake, Eric Westmorland, Gisela Lea Paweska, Carol Huddleson, and random photos I searched on google & iansvivarium.com were used in this video, as well as a few of my own.
Awesome video! Cinder makes a lot more sense now.
Good I'm glad! Cinder is definitely a very strange mutation.
Hi Sarah, I love these genetic vids. I was wondering if you could do something with Peppermint. I know they change as they age or at least the ones I have seen did. You touched on them briefly in this vid, but would love to see the ins/outs of that morph (cinder/amel?)
Hello! I do plan to eventually do a video on Amel combinations, which will include peppermint. 😊 Since you requested it I will move it closer to the top of the list. Thanks so much!
I absolutely agree the keeper wants the good look the breeder needs the purity....... for sure!!!
That's my feeling about it! I don't want a "keys Miami" I want a Miami!
I don't think I would stay away from cinder lines if I was breeding for a good miami, but if I was just a owner, genetics don't really matter
I've definitely seen this answer from a lot of miami breeders, so it is somewhat common. Which surprised me! But whatever works!
@@SarahsSnakeShop well I think het cinder messes up caramel combo mutations
Hi Sarah, interesting thoughts on this topic.
I see you used some of my pictures as well, so could you please add my name "Sabrina Schleip" to the credits in your video's description? I would like to be asked first but since this is an good topic you can use them. Thank you.
We can see this "miami-look" in het Cinder animals as well but we see a lot of proven het Cinder animals without that specific look, too. I bred a Cinder Terrazzo to two females and got two different looking gruops. One from female A more brownish/orange like rosacea and the other from female B turned out more "miami-ish".
Yes I'll absolutely add that photo credit! I've changed how I do photos since making this video and add credits in. Thanks for bringing that up!
Very nice video!!!! For sure I'd like to see a video for Aztec or Miami!!!! Just yesterday I had my first clutch off eggs from an albino motley corn snake het for ghost female with a normal male with unknown hets.
Aztec is an interesting one! Since it isn't a mutation, but it is kind of inheritable... Sort of. Lol!
I personally like the best "Miami" look, so I don't mind het cinder. I think the vast majority of buyers will be after the stereotypical Miami look, so that is what I would personally be breeding for. Similar to creamsicle and okeetee, as long as you are honest and tell buyers what genes are in the animals you sell, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. The buyer can make a conscious choice to buy or not. I would be damn upset if I purchased a "Miami" only to breed it with another Miami and get low quality offspring. Obviously that other breeder is selling knock off Miami's created by the het cinder and not telling buyers. I really dislike when breeders call their snakes okeetee because they have thick borders, but no true okeetee genes. They should be labeled as an okeetee phase. Same goes for being up front about true creamsicle offspring having hybrid genes. It's about being an honest breeder and seller.
Yeah I think honesty is the best policy, whatever people produce!
I would wonder how many of the locales are actually true lines anymore. It definitely seems questionable with Okeetee. I love the Miami look and love the "cheated" cinder Miami look. :-P But I also have rosy boas and there are a lot of very strong feelings about maintaining locales. :-D
Then...I think it is just important that breeders are honest about what they are selling. Like I have a Miami Buckskin and I would never claim that it has either any real Miami blood (or how recent it is) or Okeetee (which is also claimed in it). I love her, but won't sell her babies without attaching what I know of her history. :-D
Generally speaking, I like to use the term "Locality" (e.g. Miami Locality) if the animal IS actually from that location or a line that's been bred from snakes from that location.
I like to use the term "phase" for the "look alikes" (e.g. Okeetee Phase)
watched this vid a few times but didnt see anything about the belly patterns. trying to figure out why a lot of the caramels have a cinder look. jagged saddles ,diced up pattern, speckled bits etc
Never noticed that about caramels. All the caramels I've had just had a typical belly pattern.
Hey Sarah could you maybe do a clip on Lava and how to like produce that specific snake ?sorry I’m a newbie from the uk and I’ll actually be getting my first corn like next month which will be a ........blood red low pied and I was looking at this beautiful snake that has lava and I was astonished by this
There's no way to "get" lava other than to buy a lava. Its a single gene mutation. So you'd have to either breed parents who carry the lava mutation, or just purchase a lava :)
Is it common for a cinder to have a fully speckled belly? Like so heavily speckled it's almost dark (and no light area down the middle)? She's also a motley too if that helps.
Yes cinders will have very speckled bellies like that sometimes
Cool video. But has anyone bred locality Miamis in forever? Unlike Okeetees, or at least the two main named lines, it seems understood by most now that everything Miami out there is a “phase” (i.e., look) and not a locality. I can’t really see a rational objection to using cinder to improve Miami phase. Of course, some might prefer the more old school, darker ground color look for their Miami phase projects.
Some people DO actually keep their Miami lines pure. They aren't as common in the hobby, but I know of a few breeders who are very particular about that.
@@SarahsSnakeShop Yeah, for them, bringing in Keys blood wouldn’t be cool. Like bringing in Okeetees to add color to your Keys line or thicker saddle borders to your Miamis (which they’ve absolutely done a bunch of in “phase” lines). :)
Hi sarah i have a clutch of corn snake eggs hatching soon i was wondering if you could to a vid on how to set up you baby corn snakes after they come out from the egg:) Love your vids and the topics u discuss on by the way:)
I definitely can! I actually made a TikTok on it. But I can add it to a video I plan to upload next week where my kids start hatching :)
@@SarahsSnakeShop ohh awsome thanks alot mine actually started to pip already hehe
I'm definitely on team just know what you're buying. I'm okay with Miami type that is also het for Cinder. But someone shouldn't list a het cinder as a Miami unless the het was bred from a strong Miami so the polygenic mélange in the background of that animal is highly Miami-like.
I think THAT is probably the best policy. Sellers be honest, buyers make sure you know what you're getting
I was told that the cinder gender difference was line based and some lines threw even split between the genders. Most of my cinder stock is female and from stock that throws even splits so it would be interesting to figure out who's lines are male heavy.
I had not heard it was a line thing, but that IS good information if that's true... I'll have to look back at forums to see whose stock was more male heavy
Love the video !!! I think there’s a market for both schools of thought. They’re both valid depending on what someone wants. If I were breeding them, I would say no. If I were keeping with no plans on breeding I wouldn’t mind either way. 💕🐍
That's how I feel about it, too!
@@SarahsSnakeShop over here i havnt seen a miami yet. not one. so i want to try make some, but cinder seem to be super rare . the real local miami i see online are probably my favourite looking corn. beautiful. but i cant get one, so, sorry, im gonna cheat and try get the next best thing. the phase miami dont look as good imo , i guess thats the price people pay for cheating huh. tbf, have seen some amazing snakes here , none of the palmetto have bug eyes . a new found friend specialises in salmons, lavender, scaless, and has all sorts of different species aswell. hes got some that are a greenish and pink colour on a bright white body. amazing animals, appreciate the time hes put in, call me old fashioned tho, i prefer the wild types, ones that look not so fragile.
hi
Thanks for helping with the algorithm lol
what happens if i put my male blizzard het charcoal on a female charcoal? wil it then also give blizzards or only hets? (snakes just babys now lol)
Calculate on Cornsnake Morph Genetic Calculator - Ians Vivarium iansvivarium.com/morphcalculator/
Hey great videos!!
Do you happen to know anything about terrazzo corn snakes
Are they all diffused and masque possibly?
Definitely not diffused or masque BUT all three of those mutations came from keys lines - that's why they look so similar. And also why cinder looks similar to them :)
Ok I was wondering cause there is a few diffused terazzo bloodless on morph market that seem to be masque but also guessing that’s from the bloodied side
Was just wondering if I breed one of these to my blood red pied if I could get any pied sided out of the mix?
Miamis are one of my favorites, I had never heard of keys until a previous video of yours and I do not like them. So I think the miami is ruined by a cinder!
I would consider it a ruined Miami!
I agree! Keep it a true Miami!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about cinder + miami! Ians vivarium is a great place to check out morphs online, btw! Almost all the known morphs are listed there, WITH PICS! :D
Beginning is nice, last halve is waste of cinder time (beter a separate video for “miami cheating ways”)
Thanks for your opinion. :) I personally think it is important for people to understand what het cinder does to a snakes look. That's half of the morphs information that's really important for breeders and keepers to understand
It is Called a morph "deep dive" not a morph "summary" for a reason. All details have a purpose
I do like the deep dive facts etc. ☺️
(The last part was more of a Miami deep dive over a cinder deep dive imo)
God I'd hate to see her without makeup 😆
I can do both haha
😘