What's Wrong With Fender Guitars? Huge Artists Leaving like John Mayer and Philip Sayce
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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Philip Sayce is the latest in a bunch of big artists who I think the most obvious choice if they were partnering with a big guitar company would be Fender? Mark Lettieri, Josh Smith and of course John Mayer have all now partnered up with PRS or Ibanez. Is something going wrong at Fender?
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It started with Steve Vai. He couldn't get Fender to make the changes that he wanted, so he was looking. Ibanez courted him, and he got what he wanted, and more.
Since Fender hasn't learned from that, we shouldn't be surprised in the least by other artists doing the same.
They almost fumbled the bag with Jeff Beck too, there's hope but it fades year by year
Fender would literally rather buy Charvel than innovate a modern guitar. Only with the guarantee of collaborating with the most recognized name in electric guitar (EVH) would they produce a new modern line, which is a just an iteration of his EBMM guitar, which I also feel is still the superior instrument. Fender is old corporate industry personified: irrationally risk averse.
Funny thing is a few years later Petrucci left Ibanez because they wouldn't work with him.
@JD-vj4go his name definitely wasn't as big as Vai and Satch at the time to warrant that risk I suppose. But it's ok. He went to a different manufacturer that happily takes risks. Some would say too many. And now he has the 2nd most successful signature model of all time.
I have had a lot of Strats through the years. Changed the bridge pickup on everyone. Fine, but fighting the whammy bar and tuning stability I had to give up. Bought an old JEM and I couldn't be happier. It's really the Strats evolutional made perfect, in my case.
The only thing I miss from the original Strat is the neck pickup sound and there's 2 frets "to many" to get real deep twang on the JEM.
But I get in essence what Vai tried to do...
Sayce was just the perfect Fender Artist in this day and age. Sometimes I think brands underestimate the power of endorsing the right artists
Could you imagine if Fender would have released a Phil Sayce Signature Super relic'ed Strat..?!
i don't think they do. with the fracturing of the music industry they don't have big stars like slash in the 90's. instead of sponsoring a few big names that really get a lot of exposure, they have to sponsor tons of people that are unknown outside of their own little social media bubble. so known players go to smaller companies that need them more than fender or gibson
@@seanmurphy26 they copied his strat exactly including the same pinup and put out a custom shop without his name. Philip called them out
@@guitarsix7 I did not know that, thanks for the info.
Look at Ibanez and their roster. Their guitars aren't always sold out and back ordered for no reason
I like Fender and Gibson being stagnant. I think it's cool that guitars from the 60's are still relevant today and not just mouldering in a dump somewhere.
If it ain’t broke….
As a kid I came up playing Fender, for years and years. I couldn't even get an email response from Fender Australia. After several attempts, I thought "screw this" and tried out a PRS, I was super impressed, and only 3 months later I was on their roster as an artist. That's the difference. In the scheme of things I'm a nobody, but immediately I was able to access people at PRS and was welcomed. Ultimately I'm so glad I did that, PRS are actually actively looking to improve their instruments all of the time, whereas Fender have really stagnated.
Best part of this news is the realisation that it’s not he 60s strat that makes Philip sayce sound so good. It might just be Philip sayce.
FR Phillip Sayce could make a bag of hammers sound killer🤘🏻
I think most artists move on to other companies because they can just get better deals with other companies. EVH is the big one that stands out to me. Once he left Kramer he started hopping around with guitars and later amps, ultimately ending up with his own brand. Zakk Wylde is similar, though he pretty much just hopped to his own brand.
Some relations seems to go on forever like Vai/Satriani/Gilbert with Ibanez, Nuno Bettencourt with Washburn, George Lynch with ESP, Slash with Gibson, Malmsteen with Fender. Those are the big ones that come to mind. They must be happy with those relations - and I'm sure they've been renegotiated several times - because they're still going on decades later.
When an artist leaves, it's probably either because the product quality has declined, they have more freedom with the new company, they are offered more $ to leave, or a combination thereof.
Some artists are with companies because it means another revenue stream on top of their regular earnings. Others are with companies because they really believe in the product they are using.
BTW, EVH is Fender.
Robben Ford left fender years back after creating what appears to be a truly great instrument. I suspect they were not able to implement or keep up with meeting his needs ... he now has a signature model with PRS and even that has a list of changes. Robben recently posted a list of changes made
Do/did any of them sell?
Yes, but no tele..... And normally he plays tele 70% or more of the time..
Robben has a PRS?
ye@@IvorThomas
yes is actually a beautiful back guitar with HB and a switch for singles coil @@IvorThomas
The little blue intro was just beautiful
I'm very fortunate. I have a great friend who happens to be an excellent player and guitar builder as well. He created a strat from Warmoth parts, hardtail, Lindy Fralin pickups, one piece ash body, sunburst, maple neck, rosewood board, vintage tuners. I will be buried with that guitar.
Sunburst??
@@seanmurphy26 I fixed it
Cool! Where can I check out your friend’s guitars?
Also curious to know who your friend is that builds guitars 🙋🏾♂️
@@el_Gee dude! There are millions of luthiers out there! Any hobbyist who owns half a guitar, can build a strat..
Don't be naive, it's simple. money. they wanted more money for the endorsement, Fender didn't want to pay more. simple as that.
Nah, it’s because fender does not make guitars well. If I’m an artist and i want my guitar “just so” AND I want anyone who buys my signature guitar to get a well-made instrument 100% of the time - fender cannot deliver on either front. Prs makes better guitars because making a good guitar is their top priority. plain and simple. I’ve never played a bad new prs - I’ve played lots of shite new fenders.
@@danherrick2310I’ve played several PRS that weren’t set up well from the factory and other non USA made PRD that just wouldn’t intonate at all because they were fucked from the factory and there’s no fixing it.
That isn’t my qualm with PRS though, literally any mass produced guitar brand is going to have those issues. Period. My issue with PRS is that even when they are built superbly and set up to my satisfaction, they just simply don’t have the character I’m looking for… and some of that isn’t even brand, for instance I’ve played plenty of Fernandez strats that were amazing, esp, G&L, etc… but that silver sky just sucks ass at what strats do.
Money? Fender makes the most guitars and has the best distribution of guitar in US soil. They even print guitars twice the volume of Gibson. This is surely the d#mb3st argument by people who don't even know what the hell they are talking about.
its not about money. Its about having a product you stand behind and a corporation thats willing to collaborate. Fender is cheap now
With that lighting the only right thing would have been to pull out a Fender Ouija Fret Board and ask the spirits 🎸👻
I bought a second hand Silver Sky 2 months ago. Never been a fan of PRS but it’s a cut above my American Fenders build quality and the pickups are incredible. I’m pleased for Philip Sayce who deserves so much more exposure
Brand loyalty lies with those from the past. I still have and love my Fender Nocaster RI from 2006. But at the price of what a new plain jane fender costs I'd pass now myself.
Love my Strat, love my Silver Sky, love my Tele….NF53 is next!
Not to forget Billy Corgan who parted with Fender around 2011
I own a Billy Corgan signature
It's magnificent though
Billy Corgan is such an Ah Soul, I wouln't be surprised if it was Fender that parted ways with him.
Beautiful opening on this one. 👍🏻.
On the topic: We’d like to think it’s about the guitar when really it’s about the money. From the artist's side, it’s about how much money you can get out of the deal. From the company side, it’s about how many guitars they can move based on the artist's brand name. I've seen endorsement deals include free products, co-marketing, and a monthly stipend of cash to the artist. For smaller artists, those monthly payments really help to provide stability.
After a 25-year hiatus from the guitar, I picked up a 2020 USA-made Fender American Pro Strat. I was delighted at first, but it didn't feel completely right for my aging hands. My fingers kept tripping over each other on the cramped fretboard and slipping off the edge when bending notes. The guitar tuning is slightly unstable even when I don't use the whammy bar much. I wanted my next guitar to be a 335 style, and the Ibanez AS93 fit the bill to a point and it was less than half the cost of the Strat. It stayed in tune better and had a marvellous finish and wonderful detailing, and gave the Strat some mellower tones as counterpoint when recording. Then I discovered the Yamaha Revstar Pro and it won me over. It's not a Strat, but it feels much more comfortable to play and has stable tuning. I then tried the highly rated Yamaha SA2200 "335" and loved it. I traded in the Ibanez to help knock the price down. It's as beautifully finished as the AS93, but a better quality build all around. I don't plan on selling the Strat at this time because it has collector's value, but I feel Yamaha gave me better options and quality. It's telling that the Revstar Pro was the exact same purchase price as the Strat, but is ultimately better than the other to play in my experience. But now, I am tempted to trade in the Strat for one of the latest generation Pacificas. Oh my bank account!
Show me the Money!
I think if artist jumps to another company it's almost always about the MONEY.
Either a better money deal, or some better publicity deal, in both cases the artist makes more $$$
Fender prints more guitars than any US manufacturer. Has better distribution deals than anyone too. If Mayer wanted money, he would've signed back with Fender.
Add Carl Verheyen, Allen Hinds, and Greg Koch to this list. All Fender die-hards that in my opinion should have Fender signature models. All have been successfully courted by other brands (Carl LSL, Allen Xotic, and Greg Reverend).
Yeah Greg Koch worked for Fender for a long time too. But he says they were only interested in finding the next young star. He jokingly called it , "some in utero slim."
Fender is Living on their Reputation. (and I'm a huge fender-guy). I prefer their amp's, even more than their guitars. I had a Vintage Start (sold it) due to my purchase of a Suhr = which is honestly Superior in every way. I do still own a 65 Princeton Reverb and a Rumble 100 amplifier = both incredible.
John Mayer has been very candid about why he went to PRS. He had a very specific vision for a suptly modern revision of a Strat and he wanted a very specific neck and very specific pickups. Fender don't want to put any resources into innovation. They told him they had these neckshapes and those kinds of pickups and he could chose any combination he liked plus any colour, but they where not willing to put years of R&D into obsessing into what in the grand schene of things are tiny changes.
To be fair, Fender has in the past made several failed attempts to create contemporary versions of the Strat and Tele and they've seen Gibson flounder even more badly on that frond, so there was probably a high level decision made to prioritise the iconic reputation of their most important products at the cost of contemporary relevance
It baffles me how Mayer put a vintage 7.25’ radius to his modern start revision. Def like the radius better on the SE
@@KingofPho75 IMHO, neck radius, especially minor changes like 7.25 to 8.5, is overblown...blindfolded I bet you couldnt tell between the core silver sky and the SE.
@@alex241 You really can. I had both. The core one feels fine, it feels good for a thick-necked guitar. But the SE neck, for my taste, is significantly better in terms of feel. Not only is the neck radius a bit flatter, its also just a different shape and feel.
Wow, that sound you've got today. Sounds SOOOO goooood ❤
I swear I’ve been running back that intro to death!
The problem is that Fender and Gibson have stopped designing guitars. And most people seem to be happy with that. They pay through the nose for 1950's tech that has been chipped and pre-rusted. Odd.
Yeah but they do the paranormal series and those are some pretty cool guitars
@@legitimatefrenzy that is true. Love those. But they are still mashups of old designs, no?
I guess they're milking their position as heritage brands and focusing on serving players who want that uncorrupted classic object. There are plenty of other brands that offer updated and improved variations of classic designs.
Fender Japan is pretty awesome.
I went to see Scott Henderson a week ago. After the show the guitarist with him was asked if her Suhr was better than a Strat. She replied that Fender don't make good guitars anymore, unless they're custom shop. Personally, I find Suhr Strats a bit clinical. I have three Fender Strats (none of them CS) and I love them all immensely. I've yet to find a guitar that I gel with as much as a US Strat.
Yeah I just think it’s become trendy to hate on fender and gibson. I have a 2019 american original 60s strat that cost me like $1500. It’s got a nice poly finish and looks and plays great. The tone is better than any silver sky by far and frankly to me sounds as good as a custom shop. To say Fender doesn’t make good guitars anymore is nonsense in my opinion and you don’t need to go custom shop either.
@@bluegryp Curiously, I was sat next to a guy with a huge guitar collection at the Henderson gig. He told me he started out with a USA standard Strat. Over the years he bought more expensive guitars: Suhrs, Les Pauls, PRS, to name a few. I asked him what he liked the most. He said his original Strat!!!!! He says all the others are great guitars, but they just don't do it for him the way the Strat does.
I'm starting to gravitate towards Suhr guitars. I just received a JM from them and it's incredibly well put together.
The intro song is just gorgeous. You are such a fantastic player 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Must preface by saying I have moved on from playing PRS guitars and fully embrace hollowbody and single cuts with hollow body specs (wide nut, piezo etc). PRS has everything you could want in a guitar at every price point. The SE line is super versatile and the Silver Sky made it complete. You can get the best of Fender + Gibson at affordable prices as a non pro guitarist and if you ever felt something was missing, you would eventually move to the PRS version of your favorite PRS SE model. With PRS, there is no buyers remorse which is more than can be said about Fender. Fender has a lot of great guitars but there are only so many ways you can sell a Strat or a Tele before it's obvious you are done innovating. In the whole of the PRS SE Line, You have 6-8 Neck Profiles, 22/24 Fret Options, 3-4 Scale Lengths, and you have the Tremonti for your flat radius shredder profile.
Fender doesn't have that versatility until you get to the Master Built and by that point, what is the point exactly?
PRS HBII SE piezo by any chance? That’s what won me over to PRS
@@locky828 Had it. It's the best Hollowbody Electric on the market, period. It has split piezo + magnetic pickup outputs and can get legit record a whole jazz/classical guitar album with good acoustic IRS and you wouldn't know the difference.
Edit: I have moved on to Custom Archtops/LP Type guitars. As much as I love the piezo's on the HB II SE, the recorded sound of an Archtop is impossible to beat. Plus I get the option of 1-3/4 Width nuts which are perfect for me.
Actually, I had buyers remorse from a Mark Lettieri PRS model. I own many guitars, Suhr,Fender, Knaggs, Custom shops, Tokai, Gibson, Danocaster etc. I did not like the sound or the playability of the guitar. Obviously it will vary with personal preference. But I had to return the guitar. I have wanted to try the Silver sky but leary about it due to ML model.
@@danandrews2650 The Silver Sky has been the best selling guitar of the past decade. It wouldn't surprise me if less than ~500 people worldwide have bought that Fiore model. I feel you on the fact that PRS isn't going to touch gold every time they release a new model but this is the equivalent of saying "I won't buy a Strat because I hated my experience with the Cabronita/Jazzmaster/StarCaster". Those fringe guitars are not indicative of the rest of the line and 100K+ people can't be wrong about the Silver Sky. There is absolutely the chance you get one and it doesn't click with you but I have yet to meet a person who plays primarily Strats say the Silver Sky isn't an amazing guitar.
@@devDarkest really appreciate the feedback. I will see if a local shop may have one to try. Didnt like the width of the Fiore neck, hopefully will be a tad smaller on the Mayer signature. Thanks again.
on the other hand fender has been incredibly successful in courting younger up and coming players and spotlighting them and and giving them signature fenders (and signature gretsches) and still being completely ubiquitous in the indie world
I played a silver sky SE and I loved the build quality etc. The rosewood was so dark and awesome.
The only issue.... it didn't sound like a strat at all!
Yep and that’s why Fender won’t and shouldn’t deviate too far from the formula that’s made them famous. Only a strat sounds like a strat.
@@bluegryp All due respect, you guys need to have your ears cleaned...
I have an SE Silver Sky. I love it. The neck fits in my hand like a glove. It's really resonant and the pickups are perfect. I think being able to use both tone knobs on the fourth position gives it more tonal versitility. I've seen pople comparing the SE with the American and I can't see a $1000 difference at all. I think the biggest thing to consider is how much you pick it up. I have 14 guitars and while I can spend an evening putting some on rotation. 9 times out of 10, I end up with the Silver Sky back in my hands. It feels like coming home.. It's so nice to play!
I'm not surprised. They're not nice to work with. For example in my country most music shops can't stock Fender and Squier guitars unless they sign huge contracts that would bankrupt them (with a number of guitars they could never sell). Only the biggest shops (and mostly online) can afford to stock enough guitars to Fender's taste. In the end they're just milking the Fender brand name, which is has been a nice cash cow. I can find custom instruments for around the price of an American performer Strat. (around 1600€)
american guitars are a rip off. buy used japanese copies from the 70's-90's. they are much better instruments.
Japanese Squiers are the shizzzzz
What is that "Cordy" tele? A partscaster, or a custom job for you? Looks and sounds amazing!
EDIT: Nevermind, found yesterday's video which I've apparently missed 😅
hey man. Do you have a link for that video? or a title? Trying to find it :)
@@johnbeddoe782 ua-cam.com/video/O_PIvi3EZGw/v-deo.html
Agreed. I played the intro 5x before going on with the rest of the video.
That guitar tone (and playing) at the beginning is incredible.
Little Blue intro ❤❤❤❤
From Jacob Collier 👌
@@djangoaulasien2438 yes😍
That direction is interesting, but I think that Fender has nowadays more younger players signed as artists.
I bought a silver sky a few months ago. It is amazing. So well built and set up. The PRS QC I think is unparalleled in big brands.
Id just like to compliment the beautiful piece of rosewood on that neck.
But Philip sounds so much better on that fender guitar. Yeah he’s been playing a little bit on that PRS but it sounds nowhere near as good as the fender guitar. And plays the fender guitar to me way better 💥🔥🔥peace and love everyone.❤
Tell him that. I think he knows more about his sound and what he likes. But you can have an opinion, though it sounds like you’re a fender fanboy.
@@loneranger2385 I don’t own a fender I wish I did just watching and listening 👂🏾 ☮️❤️✨
Fender spends more of their capital on ensuring their brand recognition never leaves the spotlight. I'm sure more people would be happier if that capital was spent on more innovation in their guitars/amps, quality control and sourcing of materials/labor. Mayer straight up said Fender strong armed him to play Fender branded everything all the time and were unwilling to tinker and innovate in the shop. I'm glad the Tone Master and the FR12 came out, but the fact that they were released in 2023 shows you the slow moving dinosaur they are, unwilling to take chances in the market until they are absolutely forced to. There's no doubt their CS/MB guitars are quality instruments but their prices are blurring the lines between quality instrument and status symbol. I guess it's working, that Fender decal means a lot to a lot of people for some reason. Chris Kroenlein or Dan Grosh can make an equally good guitar, and they'll cost 1/2, 1/3 or sometimes 1/4 of a CS/MB guitar. Extremely high quality alternatives exist, but some people want to pay 5,000 extra dollars for a sticker. And as long as people do, Fender will be fine.
I think you mentioned two very important aspects:
1st) I guess no normal human will ever get to see the contracts between Fender and endorsed artists, so all we can do is make assumptions. But if they really try to force people to play nothing but Fender, it's no surprise more and more artists are leaving them.
2nd) Many guitarists really do seem to realize how much they are paying for the Fender decal on the headstock. There are so many great alternatives out there and I'd assume UA-cam has helped a fair bit to make them more popular. Back in the day all you could see were the big rock stars playing guitars from the same few brands. Thanks to Tim Pierce and other session players all those other brands get some publicity.
I bought a Mark Lettieri PRS Fiore Sunflower a few months ago and I love it. Very good playability (neck shape, satin finish), build quality, light weight and it looks great. I played a Fender AM PRO Strat HSS for years. I also tried Fender AVR II 61 Strat, but sold it. Fiore is the best yet.
John Meyer still plays a strat. Different headstock but a strat still. Haha
He now plays a strat knock off
It’s not a fender was what John was saying
@@matt-fn9grHe plays a better strat!
He literally still plays a Strat too - used one at Crossroads 2023.
Not really. The pickups are voiced different than any of Fender's offerings. The fingerboard radius and neck feel are absolutely different than any other Strat I have played.
You look at footage from Glastonbury last year and it was overwhelmingly Fender guitars on stage, particularly amongst younger/newer artists.
I think it’s easy sometimes to overestimate the significance of artists who appeal more to a guitar-playing as opposed to a general audience. I know Mayer is an exception to this, but Josh Smith and Mark Letteri are pretty niche in the grander scheme.
By comparison, Steven Lacy, although not a guitar player’s guitar player has a much broader appeal and probably value in terms of attracting a new audience.
A beautiful arrangement of a beautiful song.
Love that little blue intro!
When u get ahold as Mayer, it's possible to make anything sound wonderful.🎉
I have a Silver sky; one of the first 500 that were made. It had two issues. The bridge ground wire wasn’t soldered properly, and the neck had a back bow. It has a dual action trust rod, and some people would say it’s not an issue. But I preferred the traditional set up.
I find the silver sky to be a profound instrument. Always been a fender die hard but once I tried silver sky I never looked back. I love it more than any Strat I’ve owned or played. Vintage or otherwise.
I’m sure it’s all about the numbers. The extra sales that Fender might win or lose based on even John Mayer’s endorsement is probably not worth it for them. While both PRS and Ibanez, the numbers are different. The thing that’s interesting is that the success of the Silversky has probably surprised everyone. But even then, at Fender’s scale, it might not (yet) be enough to tip the numbers far enough. And while I’m sure Josh Smith’s endorsement has been a win for Ibanez-again-the numbers probably don’t make it a loss for Fender. Fender’s just on a different scale and different level of brand recognition than Ibanez. Ibanez has built their business on signature artists, while Fender’s business is built on its own legacy. I’d bet the margin and volume on Squier Paranormals make them more profitable than a John Mayer signature. Because an awful lot of us want all the Paranormals while having zero interest in anyone’s signature model. It will be interesting to watch and see if there comes a time when the numbers have changed enough that Fender has to react.
Not unless the corporate philosophy changes...
Josh smith’s “tele” was a boutique build not a fender fyi. Im sure others of mentioned this
Little Blue intro!! ❤👏🏼🙌🏼 Love it
Must say that guitar piece a the beginning was memorable.❤
People forget this started when Fender let go of John Mayers guitar builder and also John Mayer wanted a affordable version that he could recommend to students and beginners that he would be proud to play also and Fender just wasn’t interested. After courting and talking to companies he choose Paul Reed Smith because they both had aligned interests. A modern take on a vintage but also a student model that John felt great to recommend and he also plays. There are countless photos of John Mayer playing SE models as well as his American made Silver Sky and Fenders on stage. Now PRS has a SE CE Satin guitar for $499 with split coils. After witnessing a 3 minute long Fender video I noticed Fender only focused on the past legacy and their biggest names artist was mostly not present. They had Jon Morello of RATM and H.E.R. But I didn’t see John Frusciante, Kenny Wayne Shepard, and other notable artist, it was mainly young generation. Fender QC has been shaky too recently. My local music store has to fix customers Fenders bought straight from the Fender Store. All needed neck adjustment, new strings, intonation fix, etc and the Squiers are 50/50. They either are great and need some setup but PRS SE came setup and ready to play with occasional tune up but setup almost impeccable.
It’s more than money, it’s quality and consistency. PRS brings that.
I also think who wants a signature Fender or Squier that cost more but have vintage or original specs no different than other base Fenders or Gibsons? I don’t. Why spend extra on a signature that cost more than the original without an artist name on it? But the Silver Sky Se is $900 USD verses a Fender Player series made in Mexico for $1200 🤷♂️ and the PRS Se quality and consistency is better so I’m saving money on Silver Sky which is a artist signature model too.
I recently picked up a squier vm 2012, 70s strat for not a lot of cash. Added a tex mex loaded pickguard and set up the guitar and it sounds fantastic! Best maple neck I've played in my 50yrs of playing! Hats off to Fender!
The electric solid body guitar is so simple, you can put one together yourself, and it will be better than any factory guitar, and it has everything you desire
You kind of alluded to it, but the thing PRS can do with the Silver Sky is keep the weight down. I've played a bunch of different Fender Strats at all different price points, and they were all much heavier than my Silver Sky. That's not important to everyone but it's important to me.
Fender went downhill when John Cruz left. John Mayer still plays his Fender blk1 live sometimes.I own a Fender custom shop Mayer BLK1 only 83 made and a prs silver sky both great guitars but that Fender strat plays beautifully.
Um Cruz didn't leave...he was fired...
Um, Mayer left years ago, dude. Why make it sound like its something recent? Judging by their recent sales figures, Fender is doing just fine.
I was searching for "Little Blue guitar cover", then UA-cam recommended this video. Wasn't disappointed at all.
I will forever be a player of 7.25" radius fingerboard. I think that is the common denominator with vintage Fender and the PRS Silver Sky.
Absolutely love Zach Meyers "relic'd" Silver Sky's sunburst finish. Despite John Mayer's dislike for old colors, they still work on a Strat body, lol The rosewood and maple USA versions are a different neck profile, otherwise both great!
Fender is iconic, but like Gibson, the quality and craftsmanship is not what it used to be, unless you spend over $5k for a custom shop. Fender and Gibson have gotten to the point where Squier and Epiphone are almost as good as Fender in their build quality. That’s a problem. Smaller brands just have a lot more attention to detail in the $2-3k or less price range. The only large brand that has boutique level of attention to detail and craftsmanship in that price range is PRS. The Silver Sky, Fiore, and Tremonti signature guitars are incredible compared to the Fender and Gibson counterparts. Even their S2 and SE lines are great quality.
To me, the problems with Fender have always been there and have been glaringly obvious for a long time:
1. When CBS bought Fender, it went from Leo's innovations to just churning out the hits and they've been doing this ever since.
2. Because of #1, they stuck to single coils during an era without grounded plugs, noise gates and clean amplifers cranked to 10. As gain levels increased most players moved to guitars with humbuckers. When Fender finally put out the Wide Range humbucker, it wasnt bad but they didnt put them in Strats. It took Eddie Van Halen cutting up the FrankenStrat (importantly not a Fender) and putting a humbucker in it to create the Super Strat craze... which Fender didnt jump on until what, 87? 88? A decade behind the times while hundreds of guitar companies and pickup companies were born making improvements on the Fender Strat.
3. What "innovations" they did make were seemingly made without a single player in mind. The Dan Smith era Elite Strats, which I love, are terrible ideas. "Let's change the bridge to something even worse than ever before and add a 25db mid boost so we can boost the noisiest single coils ever and get an extra 25db of noise!" It wasnt until they brought real players in, who already liked Strats, and started doing signature models. Something Leo already figured out around 1950.
4. A controversial one here: All of the iconic Strat tones from the iconic players, except one, is merely the sound of a good Strat. Hendrix, Stevie Ray, Yngwie, Knopfler, Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, on and on down the line, except Eric Johnson, you can get close to their tones with a simple Strat. People have tone chased the Stevie Ray Vaughn sound so much and cranked the demand on slab board early 60s Strats, but you never needed anything more than a simple Strat to get 90% of the way there. Eric Johnson was the only guy who sounded like he had a guitar switcher instead of a channel switcher. He made his Strat sound like his 335, without any modifications to the guitar itself.
5. Fender ruined the Squier name by putting out absolute shit to save money. The Squier label is avoided and looked down upon to this day, which is why Fender did so well with the Mexican series. A cheaper line that weren't piles of shit. Even after they got Squier's act together and made decent guitars, the Squier logo is a stigma to this day. When we see "Squier" we see "poor". And yes, you can take any Squier, rip out everything but the neck and body and make a decent guitar, but you could've just bought a Mexican or American Fender and saved a couple hundred bucks.
6. Like Gibson, they relied on the whole "made in the USA" bullshit. Nobody cares where it was made if it was made well. Put the same amount of QC and attention to detail in a Chinese factory and you'll made guitars that rival the Custom Shop. But you go to those factories outside of America for ONE reason: money. Pay factory workers in Indonesia $40 an hour and put in a top notch QC department and you'll have great guitars. You still have to get over the brainwashing to look past the "not made in the USA" label in it though.
Ever since Leo Fender left, Fender has not been about making guitars, it has been about a corporation making money. If tables were as profitable and as in demand as guitars, Fender would be making tables.
And Squier tables would suck, but some of is would sand off the label and put new legs on it and be proud of it.
Every company exists to make money. That’s how they stay in business. It’s not greedy. However, overpricing and delivering bad QC are things for which Fender, and especially Gibson, are guilty.
As far as innovation is concerned, brands like Fender and Gibson are largely producing heritage brands to which people have sentimental attachments. So it makes business sense not to suddenly throw away that goodwill and brand power that continues to draw in customers. The sales data shows that most guitar buyers still prefer in overwhelming numbers the classic designs of Fender and Gibson. If the majority of guitar players were crying out for modern headless or pointy guitars you would expect that Ibanez GEMs and Strandbergs would dominate the sales data. But they do not. What does dominate? The same things that have been for decades: Strats, Teles, Les Pauls, SGs, 335s, and assorted Fender offsets. PRS learned that and that’s why they decided to respond to John Mayer’s overtures and built him what is in essence a Strat with a different headstock shape. To a lesser extent they did the same thing with Myles Kennedy’s Tele-esque thing. Why? Because that’s what people want and it shows in the sales numbers with the Silver Sky and NF53 leading the way for PRS. These constant calls for Fender and Gibson to innovate don’t make business sense beyond offering more modern versions of the classics, which they already do offer in different lines to greater and lesser extents. If people want more modern and innovative guitars they can even stay within the Fender and Gibson umbrella and buy Charvel, Jackson, Kramer, or Steinberger. Or they can go to Ibanez and many other brands. But again, people’s buying patterns don’t demonstrate that people want a radical departure from the aesthetics and form factor standards set by Fender and Gibson.
And yes, made in the USA is still a thing for a lot of people even if it is not for you and me. Again, the numbers don’t lie. Fender and Gibson had no problem moving their high end U.S. made instruments this year. The softness in their inventory turnover was for stuff made everywhere else. So if there is one thing that is valid it’s that people may be prepared to pay more for American-made but they are not that happy with the price increases of stuff manufactured everywhere else.
@@randrothify First of all, thank you for being as loquacious and verbose as me when most posts are "cool story bro"!
Naturally I agree that of course, every company exists to make money. Leo Fender didn't start Fender to not make money and he wasn't a luthier or even a player either, he was basically an inventor. But if your company isn't about its product and it is just about money, the music industry is the absolute wrong industry to pick. CBS bought Fender because after The Beatles did Ed Sullivan, every kid in America wanted a guitar. Demand went through the roof literally overnight. CBS saw this big boom, was able to buy Fender, and get a foot in the door of the boom and ideally sell it all while it still looks profitable to other companies wanting to get their foot in the door but without leaving any real money on the table. As poorly as CBS ran Fender, it wasn't that bad compared to how some other companies in the music industry were run. But, bottom line... you've got to give a shit about your product, and I think Fender does. I don't know if management has a sense of pride that they work for Fender, but it certainly feels like many in Corona certainly do. At least they're not pulling a Gibson, they think they're a luxury brand like Ferrari or Gucci, and they can put any price on any pile of garbage they put out, and if they hit all of the right bulletpoints the dumb collectors and people to whom $10k is pocket change. "It's even closer to a 1959 Burst than ever before! Double whites! '59 neck profile! Brazilian rosewood!"
And the point you bring up about those classic/iconic guitars being in demand is absolutely spot on, but in my experience it's never about the guitars themselves, it's about emulating the players that play them. In 1987 Les Pauls were "grandspas guitarsss", but then there's Slash on Mtv with one and suddenly it's back in vogue. Generally, we're young when we get hit with the musician bug. Whatever hits us around 11-15 years of age makes such a major impression on us and we're looking at videos, at magazines, at album covers, at old concerts and we don't have a developed ear or a ton of knowledge when we're first getting obsessed... we use our eyes instead. We buy a Les Paul because of this guy, but that guy played a Les Paul because they didn't have humbuckers in Strats back then and he wanted more sustain. Eric Clapton didn't walk into a music store, see a Les Paul and say to himself, "I don't need to hear it, I'll take it." Mostly, at that time it came from people hearing Mike Bloomfield, not -seeing- him. Les Pauls, even the vaunted '59s just weren't in fashion so they were cheap too, especially older ones. But all of these guys seeking more sustain, more gain with less noise and they needed to play in front of larger and larger crowds in an era where the PA was just for vocals and could barely keep up. Crank a standard off the shelf Strat through a 100 watt plexi running on dirty, ungrounded power and you'll switch to humbuckers too, even if Buddy Holly looked so damn cool with a Strat. So we want the classics because of our eyes first and that's actually terrible.
But innovation doesn't necessarily require reinventing the wheel. Leo innovated and made the Broadcaster. He improved upon that with the Strat, which had innovations like different (and more) pickups and the "tremolo" bridge. He felt like he was improving on that with the Jazzmaster, with innovations like different pickups (again), the rhythm/lead circuit and it's lockable tremolo bridge. Instead of getting shitty wood and shitty parts and making a shitty Strat, he made the Musicmaster and Duo Sonic, and later the Mustang and Jaguar as lower cost alternatives. He -designed- a cheaper guitar instead of just putting garbage parts in a Strat or Tele. What innovations did CBS do? Outside of the Starcaster (filling the semi-hollow hole in Fender's catalog), the Wide Range humbucker (finally!), they cut costs, cut corners, increased production, lowered quality control, and churned out the same shit until the Dan Smith era. After Leo Fender, the Dan Smith era was the first time Fender actually tried to improve their product. Twenty years of just counting money and trying to figure out how to make more money, not by selling more or better guitars, but by constantly making their product worse to increase the profit margin. It took how long before Fender put out a Strat with a -good- humbucker in it? What year did the Shawbucker come out? 2015? It took from 1954 to 2015, fifty one fucking years, to solve the number one problem of the Fender Strat: single coil noise. Gibson had the Seth Lovers in '57 after only five years. Eddie Van Halen put a PAF in a Strat in 1977. Why did it take half of a century for Fender to figure it out? Because "that's the way we've always done it." That one sentence is the death sentence of progress. The only people who want things the way they've always been done are the ones reaping the benefits of it being done that way.
The classic, iconic designs are classic and iconic for good reason. These designs are functional, they're aesthetically pleasing and they've been part of our popular culture for nearly 75 years now but there have always been flaws. A massive industry of aftermarket upgrades exists because Fender and Gibson wouldn't change the things that needed improvement. That's money they left on the table for everyone else. If Gibson just made a hotter humbucker in the 70s when everyone wanted more gain, would most of us ever know Seymour Duncan's or Larry DiMarzio's names? If Fender made a stable tremolo bridge that stayed in tune, would we have ever heard the name Floyd Rose? There are tons of innovations that came about because Fender and Gibson were too busy counting pennies.
They could have made billions and to bring it all full circle, that's what a company exists to do, right? They were too busy counting pennies to innovate and improve so they left millions on the table for other people to take. Granted, it might be better in the long run that we have third party innovations improving our instruments but the downside is you can't buy a guitar off the rack that does what you want. You've also got to upgrade the bridge, the nut, the pots, the caps, the pickups, strap locks, graphite string trees, and on and on and on. That's fine when you can buy a $500 guitar and put $500 in upgrades into it, but when the guitar is $3-5,000 should you really have to replace half of the parts to make it work for you? Especially when you can buy a PRS for less than that and never need to replace anything but the strings and it works right out of the box.
It's why the Silver Sky exists, it's why Sadowsky exists, it's why there are hundreds of companies like Nash exist improving and innovating on existing designs. They're better than the Fender versions of the same guitars... but we still want that iconic headstock shape and we still want that name brand logo on it because that's what caught our eye when we were young and dumb. We put so much emphasis on what we want, we stumble through and make do until we figure out what we actually need. We need function. We need guitars that stay in tune, something Strats and Les Pauls just don't do. We need pots and wiring that doesn't fail in three years. We need useful, flexible tones for our chosen styles. Most of the other brands out there provide that out of the box.
Bang on observations, John. Add Greg Koch to the list, by the way... always a Tele player but when the time came for a sig model he partnered with Reverend. His appearance on TPS is very telling on how "it wouldn't work out" with Fender. Fender reluctant to depart from certain standards specs? Silly move, for sig models especially I think the world would forgive any "deviation".
It seems it all falls down to executive greed. Fender knows it's "clowns" are going to continue buying guitars for 6k and master building for 13(as we see with 6 year waiting lists) They don't really care about paying endorsements or innovating at that matter. Contrary to that they went dei mode and endorsed a girl with a "signature" guitar that could barely play, and fired one of their best master builders over a joke.. kinda gives you insight into their business model.
I don't ever remember once thinking about buying a Fender? Like it never even comes to mind. Gibson is a close second. When I browse guitars on Sweetwater, my parameters won't even allow them to be included. I can't think of a single model either brand currently builds, where it's always been something I've wanted? I think those brands rely on that thought process of "that's what all the greats played".
Well, it's just not the case anymore. There's way too many great guitars in the world to stay stuck on 50's styles and construction. Most of my guitars look nearly identical to Tele's, Strat's or Les Pauls. But they have modern construction and specs that are actually useful, instead of just sticking to the same tired looks and layouts.
So I've noticed I still prefer the classic shapes, but can't be bound to the oldschool thinking, where I'll just accept whatever they throw at us. I'm way too far down this path of modifying them all to my personal expectations, rather than trying to find some unicorn example that doesn't exist. I find decent "ringers" as Rhett Schull would say, and just keep tweaking on them, until they do what I want. You'd be surprised how good my little clutch of fiddles has gotten, in a relatively short period of years. If you know what you want, and work towards it diligently, you learn real quick that having a Fender or Gibson logo on the headstock is way down the list of importance, in my book. You can call them whatever you please, if the tool does the "thing" it's a winner!
I watched what John Mayer had to say about Fender when he made the jump to PRS. Like he said, a lot of these guitar manufactures are steeped in 50's - 60's Americana / surf and car culture and as long as they're selling well, they really don't care to modernize. Gibson tried to modernize with the robo-tuners, PCB boards with quick connect pickups, things that would be geared towards players...but their customer base came out and blasted them. They want '58, '59' and '60 reissues. Same with Fender, they have to stick with the 50's and 60's styling because that's what the majority of their customers want. The manufacturers have to stick close to their roots, because that is what sells. Both Gibson and Fender offer a Modern and Player (respectively) line to throw a bone to players who want the classic styling with some more modern player appointments. But these high level artists need more from their instrument than what these nostalgic brands are willing to develop. Even look at G&L, Leo was trying to modernize his ideas post-Fender because he couldn't do it when he was with Fender.
Song shines bright.
As a previous owner of a Silver Sky, I regret selling mine. I needed the money to fund a Michael Tuttle Strat guitar (which I LOVE), but I wish I had found the funds some other way now. The Silver Sky is Fender custom shop quality at half the price.
Never sell any gear. Elvis never sold his gear
@@ramencurry6672 awesome
Fender allowing John Mayer to leave the fold and letting him take his brand over to PRS to become their biggest competition is....INSANE! I remember at the time John saying that Fender wasn't capable of creating his vision for the guitar (what became the Silver Sky). I can't believe that Fender was incapable of making a production line Strat with a new bevel/cutaway on the lower horn, new neck profile with a 7.25" radius, new voiced pickups, and some cool new colors. They tweak and alter the Strat all the time (Ultra, , Performer, Professional, Vintage, blah, blah, blah), so for whatever reason John left Fender for PRS, I place the blame solely on Fender. There can be zero justification to allow Mayer to walk and become the Stratocaster killer in the marketplace. Truly a shame. Cuz, I'm almost certain John would've preferred to have retooled his Silver Sky Strat with a Fender headstock on it, but we'll never know no, unfortunately. Great video!
I’ve well and truly been down the Strat rabbit hole over the years, and I found I was just chasing my own idealised version of a vintage Strat with more modern playability. Recently I’ve started to feel like I’m emerging from the other side of it and actually getting a bit bored of the traditional Strat shape and other details. Sacrilege!! I’m actually finding the subtly refined and updated Silver Sky aesthetic very attractive. Maybe I’m not alone in this!
Had some time with the Fiore at the local shop, what a great guitar, one of the best playing guitars i’ve tested. Silver Sky sounds fantastic, but the neck is not my thing. Think Fender has a quality problem in that price range compared to the PRS. Sayce is a blues monster, prob would have sounded amazing on a $300 squier
Neither Gibson nor Fender seem desperate to throw money at celebrity endorsers these days. Smaller, less established companies need endorsed models much more than those two (e.g. Sire and Larry Carlton). Fewer than ten guitarists (probably fewer than five) could move the sales needle enough to bother with a signature model. Philip Sayce wouldn't be one of them. Not a question of his quality as a player, but a question of the value of the endorsement.
I don't care if the silversky has the backward PRS headstock. What I don't like is that it's a tiltback. To me, a strat or Tele is a bang-around bolt-on instrument. I want to be able to chuck that thing around from gig to gig like a pair of pliers, not a box of China. I think the issue Paul's design team ran into is that a 3x3 non-tiltback may have more challenges than an inline 6 or 4x2 (musicman) in terms of downpressure.
They could have easily used a PRS headstock with a straight headstock if they really wanted they just chose to keep it traditional PRS
There's a thing called a string retainer bar
@sammyrothrock6981 If you're talking about the old floyd Rose, full width, many of my customers do not like em. I'm not saying it's impossible just more to it than an inline 6 headstock
Old news but atleast they are doing better than Gibson
A design doesn't stick around for so long for nothing. It's also great in the sense of the availability of after market parts. If you've ever needed a part that you can't find, you soon see the value of iconic guitars.
I grew up playing Fender, and I have a newer American Pro Strat. However, my Indonesian import Schecter Nick Johnston smokes it at 60% the price. The neck is incredible. The subtle details like the fret inlays are nice. Fender just seems to have little variation in their product line. It's like shopping among the 50 variations of white paint at Home Depot.
I also have an Indonesian Nick Johnson and it's an amazing guitar that punches way above uts price point. It can hang with my USA G&L Legacy.
yeah Schecter is great, the neck is incredible smooth
I have a Schecter as well. Sold all my other guitars except two acoustics because they had collected dust for over a few years. I love the minimalist approach and I love Schecter
Tom Gray’s emperors are really nice.. I have one fitted with a sustainiac neck pickup among other things.. I guess his prices are more in line with some of the bargain top PRS silver skys though but you can have the exact appointments you want…
But- there is something lovely about the strat headstock- and I know it shouldn’t be about that but.. I do miss it when it’s not there.. I have a good Jeff beck strat too which I love more and more.. the K-lines look really nice./
Used to dislike strats and fender amps- now I love them both!
If I had to be an armchair-analyst, I would suspect that fender were well aware of the Gibson stereotype of being a brand that appealed to “blues lawyers” and “legacy artists.” One thing that I noticed, especially at the height of the lockdown/pandemic, is that fender is appealing to younger people, women, and non “rock” musicians. Case in point: the last 3 fender signatures that I can think of were the Tash Sultana, H.E.R. and Raphael Saadiq. Personally I love this approach by fender as it highlights current artists, and artists that aren’t normally on “rock guitarists’” radar. It cements fender guitars as the utilitarian tool of musicians industry-wide.
That intro track was the best tone I've ever heard from you.
You may call yourself a Strat player, but you sound amazing on a Tele as well 😊
4:28 The actual topic of the video starts here. You're welcome.
John would you be interested in doing a vid explaining where a player might like the 3 main strat pup configs - SSS, HSS, HSH. ???
On the bass side of Fender artists, Marcus Miller leaving a few years ago is another indication that things are different at Fender.
PHILLIP SAYCE IS MY MAN HE ABSOLUTELY POURS HIS ENTIRE SELF INTO HIS PLAYING. IF HE PLAYS A STRAT(MOTHER) OR A PRS ITS GONNA SOUND LIKE PHILLIP.
Maybe the question shouldn't be "what's wrong with Fender?" Maybe the question should be "what's right with PRS or the other guitar companies?" Some of these other companies are making excellent products that can compete.
i think you nailed it! first time viewer here.
I had a lot of strats and sold them all, I couldn't find the right one for me (my Fender tele on the other hand is perfect).
I recently bought a PRS SE Silver Sky and this guitar works for me. It has all the sounds I look for in a strat (Clapton, Knopfler, Mayer, ...).
I must admit that PRS is making great sounding guitars in the SE line. I was not into PRS, but I changed my mind ... First time PRS convinced me was with my SE Hollowbody, fantastic guitar also
I have a $5k fender custom shop wildwood 10 strat. It’s great. I find myself playing my silver sky more. Even my silver sky se is firmly in the rotation, they really just do a thing so well
The only thing I can think of is that Fender's top brass will not use the newer methods of manufacturing. They're still using the bridge stamps they used in the 50s. PRS are always looking for better manufacturing tools & techniques. The Japanese, just like in the automotive industry, was destroying F&G by making better versions. What did F&G do instead of making their stuff better? Sue. So what can Fender do? A good first step would be to update their machinery & more importantly, start buying & handling their wood more selectively. Another would be to cut production in half. This would allow for them to start being more selective about their woods & Johnny here wouldn't be able to buy a Strat weighing 8+lbs.
I don’t really get it. If you become a guitar company’s “signature artist”, I assume you’re getting all your gear from that company for free. But if you are hugely famous enough that guitar companies are courting you, you’re going to be able to afford whatever you want right? So if you want a custom made model, instead of becoming a “Fender Artist” and then asking Fender to make you an atypical model for free, just go pay some one to make a guitar from scratch that is to your exact specs. I know it wasn’t instigated by Lyndsey Buckingham, but when he was struggling to get what he needed from a Les Paul, he got a custom guitar from Rick Turner. He didn’t go to Gibson and ask them to make him a Model 1, because of course Gibson is going to say no. I don’t think Fender is doing anything wrong.
I only play Fenders they were good enough for Jimi and Stevie they are good enough for me
Is also the "Myles Kennedy / NF 53" to backup your PRS-vs-Fender argument.
Fender’s QC has been questionable for years. Add to that their inability to successfully innovate beyond Leo’s original designs and you have a recipe for a stagnant company
I started playing Fender and Gibson they are great, but I now prefer Shecter. Jackson, and Ibanez.
My problem with Fender as a corporation is that they are obviously targeting customers who want to spend gobs of money on their products, and so you tend to see fender guitars more as wall art rather than a tool in the hands of musicians. They don’t listen to musicians about what musicians want, they listen to people who care more about looking cool, even what people want to wear or whatever. The music is secondary or tertiary in their values and that seems lame to people who want to make music. I don’t dislike fender guitars, I love them, but I wouldn’t buy a new one, there are a lot better strat style guitars from other brands, like Yamaha for instance.
The last guitar I bought was a Fender American Pro II. I love it because it just feels right for me. I don’t like the neck on the Ultra - too much of a D shape. I considered the Silver Sky but the 7.5 inch radius just wasn’t right for me. The SE model felt better but the Pro II will do me very nicely.
Your playing is so good man. Love it!
fender works with a lot of greats and young guitarist like kingfish or Her ( HER do a guitar solo during the last Super Bowl with her signature modèle ) . they have a model for every budget and Fender is my favorite brand but for 2500 $ i choose a clone made by a luthier, it' s custom shop quality for half the price. their Amps are the best , i am agree with you
HER is not even at the level of Eric Johnson or SRV or John Mayer. She’s a mediocre guitar player at best. She only got that signature guitar because of her fame and her well connected dad in the music industry.
yes @@jan_07 that's correct , i think Fender want the guitar community to get bigger and bigger so they choose popstar and non virtuoso musician to represent the brand. easy listening guitar and music , beautiful tones
You can get a greco strat from the 70's for under 1k. They are actual vintage guitars and they were built to higher standards that fender does.
her is a diversity hire
@@jan_07 And other reasons we cannot discuss here... Also, she didn't play that solo in the SB, it's been analysed to death now
I think it's understandable that Fender does not want to change it's iconoclastic, flagship guitars or risk the increased production cost and retooling for an artist's boutique version of something they already make; especially given that most guitarists have a sort of niche following, not a huge mainstream listening audience like some have had in the past.
The tides are turning, and it’s class based. Musicians are trying to tell these companies that the means of production are widely available but the executives are trying to hold on to their yachts
I have a Silver Sky core, it’s the best strat style guitar I’ve ever played. I own two other fender strats and I haven’t played them since I got the silver Sky two years ago.