"It's about 5 more degrees, still nowhere near the Tjunction, and we can save a buck or two per unit." "Dammit Johnson, you're a genius." That's exactly how the meeting at Intel went.
Xamnition I wouldn't hold my breath on the new architecture being a threat to current or even older gen i5s and i7s, they have a huge architectural disadvantage and much more limited funds. It would be nice to have competition again, like in the Athlon days, though.
i am not sure if zen will be able to compete with current i7 on par, but probably will get much closer than an fx could but at a lower price than the i7, offering an even better $/performance ratio, like the rx 480 does.
So AMD release far cheaper CPUs of nearly the same power, and include a wraith cooler. Pretty much equivalent of a hyper 212 (but it's something). But Intel charges super premium prices, and still tries to cut corners on their own cost without reducing the consumer price. And people hate on AMD so much. Hmm
+Mario Saltalamacchia Actually no. Its not the nanometers that matter but the die side. AMDs die sizes are bigger and take much more money to produce than an intel counterpart. Intel cpus (correct me if I am wrong) are actually cheaper to make than AMD ones. AMD cpus need more Silicone wafers to make the same amount of cpus as intel cpus. Intel cpus are cheaper to make and they still charge more.
+Nissan U. (SUBW00FER) You are correct that CPUs with smaller die sizes are cheaper to make, but that's not the only factor that decides the price of a CPU. Since Intel CPUs are usually faster than AMD CPUs, it makes sense that they would charge more. It's the same reason a core-i7 is 100$ more than a core-i5. Even though it doesn't cost Intel anywhere near 100$ more to produce an i7, it's more expensive because it's faster. Also chips made with 14nm transistors will be more expensive simply because it's a newer technology.
You do realize that a desktop i7 is EXACTLY the same CPU as a desktop i5 just with hyperthreading turned on, right. Its not like an i3 that IS an i5/i7 with defects, letting intel disable 1/2 its cores and sell off otherwise flawed processors nice and cheap. And when they can enable HT on a crappy i3 why won't they enable it on the i5. Intel is just greedy and their effective monopoly means this will never change. AMD is unlikely to ever have a modern day equivalent to the intel-bustingAthlon64/X2 these days. Intels anti competitive practices of the past hurt AMD so badly that they're never going to be able to get that performance crown back again.
You can't compares different coolers without precise CPU fan speed control. The fan on the Alum cooler @4:41 ran at ~1650 rpm, while the one on the Cu+Al cooler ran at ~1400 rpm @4:35. Fix that fan speed, either with an external fan controller or some software then we can talk about benchmark.
hereiam2005 The aluminum heat sink dissipated significantly less heat despite its marginal fan speed advantage. I suppose you think you're being clever here but you're actually being pedantic.
Nope, that is exactly how you compare stock coolers. I mean, how many people will use a fan controller to fiddle with a stock cooler? It doesn't make sense. The stock configuration is what most people will use so I think it's only fare to compare them without any modifications.
They have been flip flopping between aluminum and copper since 775 socket, it just depends on how hot the CPU runs if they decide it needs copper or not.
It's about the consumer losing out. Skylake K models don't include the stock coolers anymore but they are still more pricey, even more than Haswell before it. Now if we get stock coolers with the non-K models, we get flimsy all-aluminum coolers that came with CPUs that are just as dear as the Haswells that came with the aluminum + copper coolers.
The only thing that would really pull me in any direction when considering a stock cooler is like when AMD basically did a redesign admiting "hey, our old coolers sucked, we know, look how much better we're going to do!"
Boy am I glad I went back on my plans to buy a skylake this year. I've been waiting for 2 years to upgrade, now I'm thinking it might be best just to wait for Zen, fuck intel and fuck their prices.
+Cestarian Inhabitant If the temperatures are nowhere near Tj max then it doesn't matter at all. A few degrees is nothing, and it won't actually increase the temperature of your system by anything either. All it means is the CPU is a few degrees warmer, but it won't produce or radiate *any* more heat because of that. Everything else will be the same temperature, and the cpu won't lose any performance either.
I think everyone should be able to afford a great air cooler like the 212 evo. Best part is it can be reused for your next build, and your next build! Worst case scenario you may have to one day replace the 120mm fan.
Some kind of 92mm 212x would be cool and quiet enough for locked processors, as 120mm is a bit of overkill and very unsuitable for small from factor builds.
+Skooteh True, but with the compatibility of coolers like the 212 Evo, I dare say it would mount to the vast majority of CPUs out there. AMD or Intel. It suits like 5 generations of Intel so far.
tshepp89 I said that, it's just that peoples (myself included) lose older mounting hardware. It also won't likely be compatible with a socket that comes out after you buy it (like zen).
They probably went for a cheaper cooler since Skylake has also a better thermal interface, so they will run a lot cooler than before. The copper core was probably implemented do to pre refresh Haswell CPUs having a horrible thermal interface material between the die and the IHS. My 4430 (lowest clocked normal power Haswell i5) reaches 100° C and throttles on the stock cooler on Prime 95 Small FFTs and around 87-90°C on CPU-Z's stress test.
the smaller transistors on the die also create more heat per nm and with a smaller overall die that equates to a bigger heat output, intel need better stock coolers for their chips. imagine if you could buy a 6600K or a 6700K with the LGA 775 cooler, you would have goodish thermals and some overclocking headroom
I have a Pentium 4 (LGA775) stock cooler and a first gen i5 stock cooler. The P4 cooler is massive, while the i5 one is basically the size of a Haswell i3 stock cooler. Both have copper slugs.
you said it yourself, its not just about saving money, its about not wasting money. the cheaper coolers are still more than enough to cool these locked cpus.
Martín Varela if you live in those places you are part of the worlds small minority, and then you get the burden of either getting ac, or a new cooling system for your cpu.
Martín Varela oh really? The climate of Brazil varies considerably mostly from tropical north (the equator traverses the mouth of the Amazon) to temperate zones south of the Tropic of Capricorn (23°26' S latitude). Temperatures below the equator are high, averaging above 25 °C (77 °F), omg! that's sweltering heat alright! you realize that Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA summers are in the mid 30s? get a grip bud. only a small portion of the worlds population lives in the extreme heat. linustechtips regularly have shown stock coolers performing adequately with ambient room temperatures at 80ish F. and once again, if you are one of the minority that lives in these areas, invest in an AC unit. will keep your room cooler and more comfortable, and allow your stock cooler to do its job. its not like you are going to OC these LOCKED cpus.
+JamesMichaelDoyle I live just below of Brazil (misiones, argentina) And I get 37°c peak on summer, so no, you don't feel the pain. I can't just trow 600USD just on AC, because that's about what it costs here.
It's because skylake TDP's are lower than haswell Copper has a higher thermal conductivity and emissivity than aluminum, and so is used whenever aluminum is insufficient for thermal management.
All that matters is the final TEMPERATURE, unless Skylake somehow has a longer life at 5degC higher temperature which I doubt. And of course FAN NOISE will be increased using the same profile.
You seem to be seeing what you want and ignoring what you don't like. The skylake processor runs cooler needing less cooling. You gain 5c of cooling with the copper block, but you don't need it. So, with intel wanting to save a few bucks, they went all aluminum. Where, with the haswell core, it was required to have a copper slug to keep the core cool.
I’m more surprised by the fact that stock heatsink is still a thing. I believe they shouldn’t include a cooler at all, especially in this class of CPUs. First of all, let's be honest, the majority of people who buy an all new Skylake i5 are not on a tight budget; they would have bought Celerons and Pentiums instead. Also, even a lot of those who are indeed on a tight budget are going to throw away that heatsink anyway and use an aftermarket one from a previous build if it’s compatible. Finally, if heatsink was no longer included the cost would drop for all even those who can’t afford an i5 but have a spare cooler. Then everyone would buy the cooler they can afford, depending on their needs for gaming, quiet mode etc. The current situation, where most people just throw away the stock cooler the moment they open the box, is inefficient, waste of resources, waste of money and “eco-unfriendly”
Interesting take, though I'm fairly certain these stock coolers only cost Intel a few dollars at most to produce apiece. Removing them from boxes will not reduce the price of the CPUs themselves by very much at all. And besides, they do work. $20 for a 3rd party cooler is still $20. It makes a difference for some. Additionally, most people don't have extra heatsinks "laying around."
If people are going to be re-using their liquid cooling setup, then Intel is pretty much throwing away a fancy metal slab for each one that is not used, meaning 'money lost' giving consumers stuff they don't use. Also, in the last 10 years of people buying and getting 'cheap' stock coolers in every 'package' that was sold back then, how much copper is actually sitting in people's homes, garage, basement, closet, unused?
an insignificant amount is sitting around. also, the price of those mass produced would be pretty small after selling the CPUs, but cutting down even a dollar over millions of units obviously makes a difference to Intel in the end.
Not sure why anyone would downvote such a useful video. People on auction sites often give their stock coolers (copper) away with their i5s and i7s when they sell them. I got my copper stock cooler for free with my second-hand i5-3570k which I run at stock clock speed at the moment on a H61, good to know the copper makes quite a difference.
Meanwhile AMD is stepping up their stock cooler game with the wraiths. Hopefully Zen will deliver. I'd be willing to go to Zen if they offer a full blown 8-core with haswell level IPC from my i5 4670k.
+Riley Nelson my next pc is going to have zen regardless (well unless its another vishera...) im so eager to see ow they perform and hopefully intel will have proper competition
I don't really think it matters as the temps are still completely fine. Intel has always been making coolers that are enough but only that. I actually wouldn't care if I would buy a new processor and I would install the new cooler instead of my current one that has a copper slug because of fan life. :P Don't forget though.. cheaper CPU because not a k SKU, no aftermarket cooler needed and you can use a cheaper motherboard that doesn't have overclocking capabilities but exactly the same or close features and that could save 100 euros or more where I live. The price to performance for the k SKUs isn't really adding up where I live. :P
If you are on a budget, go to ebay and search "tower heatsink", you can get them for about the same price as a stock Intel heatsink which you can then sell. You only keep a stock cooler when you can't be bothered to do an upgrade.
you should be able to look up the conductive (both electric and thermal) properties of metals easily. this goes hand in hand with your finding and its easy to see why they make heat pipes out of copper and not aluminum or alloys. Once I get a lathe I'll try my hand at making my own CPU cooler for shites and gigs #212EvoFTW
I am using a custom cooler now. Actually not air cooled, so it doesn't apply, but when I first got my intel core I-7 4790K 4.0GHZ "Devil's Canyon" it came with a cooler that had a copper slug in it, but I also didn't realize it came with a cooler at all when I bought it because I bought it online from Newegg, so I had gone on Ebay and bought a cheap Heatsink which did not have that copper slug. I had also swapped them out and tested which one was better and I got similar results to yours. I have no idea why, but I was somewhat surprised. However the system was not as cool during multitasking, load bearing chores such as Streaming and Gaming while recording or rendering animation. With the stock heat sink it was getting up around 90c so I bought a pump, some radiators some heat sinks for water cooling and some radiators, fans etc. before even thinking about overclocking it. if you are just gaming, video encoding, etc those stock heat sinks are fine, but if you choose to overclock. Get a custom cooler of some kind, preferably water cooler or at the very least a double cooler like the Noctua Dual Tower CPU Cooler for Intel LGA 2011-0/LGA 2011-3 Square ILM/1156/1155/1150 and AMD AM2/AM2+/AM3/3+,FM1/2 NH-D9L on Ebay. I think I bought one for $54 and ran it for a while before saying "Nope" not cool enough, around 70C but I was able to clock it from 4.0ghz to 4.5ghz on this cooler. and it still stayed around 90c on that tower overclocked to 4.5 Now I have acheived 4.7GHZ on it and it remains at 40c under heavy loads, but intel claims you can achieve 5.0GHZ. I get a BSOD after 4.7 so no overclockie for me me after that, but it could just be the outrageous amount of power needed to run it or maybe it is not cooling down enough demanding so much from my power supply or some other hardware problem or liit preventing it from working. because the BSOD specifically says ACPI, I am not really a Hardware guy as far as pushing the limits goes, but I really don't notice any differences between 4.3GHZ and 4.7GHZ, It's never under that much of a load constantly to make that big of noticeable difference. Out of curiosity, I would like to read what other people have found on this particular chip. primarily because this is the chip I have. I know it's not the greatest anymore by far, but Curiosity calls and these chips are pretty common, so I am sure someone else has had an experience with them. Has anyone ever gotten it to 5.0GHZ without a BSOD? What cooling system have you used?. for me.. I don't really even need it at 4.7GHZ because like I say I find it adequate even at 4.5ghz and haven't really noticed any real stability issues or differences in performance between the two speeds. But also as I say I am extremely curious if anyone has ever done it because Intel says you should be able to get it to 5.0GHZ on air Cooling.. So.. It must be possible right?
I thought skylake didn't come with a heatsink??? Intel sold one seperately, but for the price you could buy a Hyper 212 Evo from CM. Edit: NVM Turns out only K skus don't come w/ it.
And this kind of thing continues nowadays. The i7 8700 (non K) comes with an all aluminum cooler that completely fails to keep that cpu cool without throttling
I've been using an Ivy Bridge i5-3550 since 2012, and until about a week ago, I was using the stock Intel heatsink with the copper slug. I never had any problems with CPU thermals, at least that I could tell. It would rarely go past, say, 65 Celsius. My GPU on the other hand, a GTX 660ti, would regularly heat up to over 82 degrees. I'm not sure if it ever thermal throttled, but it certainly was alarming. I just upgraded to a GTX 1070 and it has yet to surpass 57 degrees Celsius. I also swapped out the stock heatsink for a Cooler Master Hyper 212X, and my CPU package now hangs around the mid 50s under load. Obviously, with a non-K i5, I'm not overclocking, so this new heatsink wasn't anywhere close to a necessity, but I still picked it up for three reasons: 1: I now feel more comfortable with turning my case fans down to low and medium, thus lowering the noise in the room, because on high my case sounds like a jet engine; 2: I plan on getting a new motherboard and CPU when the Kaby Lakes launch, and with an overclockable i7 I'll definitely need the better heatsink; 3: I think it looks cool. Obviously people are often on a budget, but I always advise friends to sink the extra $30 into a good heatsink. Especially given Intel's tendency to skimp out lately.
I built a budget system (quite a while ago) with an i3 4130 and the stock cooler was all aluminum. It was also not up to the task, which surprised me. You would think the 4130 wouldn't need an aftermarket cooler, but in testing temp peaked at 78°C, and the case is pretty well optimized airflow wise. Decent aftermarket coolers are pretty cheap these days, and even a pretty low end one will out perform the stock cooler, so I just recommend people spend the extra 25-30 bucks if asked.
people who dont use their systems for heavy loads won't even know about the CPU temp and wouldn't actually care either way. People who care about CPU temp will be more likely to be overclocking etc and should NEVER be using those stock heatsinks anyway. Hell the latest CPU's dont even come with one!
Those 5C at most are not worth to bother. Purchasing an EVO 212 ~30$ will make the system much quieter with much lower temps. And will probably migrate to the next build. Also, a custom cooler can be added at any point, like few months later.
Sorry for pointing out a bit of chop logic: 1. A lower temperature cooler / processor does not reduce the case temperature, this is dependent on the processor heat output which does not change. 2. As long as you are below the throttling temperature of the cpu then the odd couple of degrees makes zero difference.
+Dave Bell I don't believe I ever claimed that a "case" would be cooler as a result of better cooling. The law of conservation of energy prevails. However, your second assertion is incorrect. Lower operating temperatures will not make "zero" difference. A case could be made for "negligible" lifespan extensions, but nonetheless, it's still there.
I think it's interesting how Intel heatsinks don't have heat pipes and instead it's a solid block in the middle with heat flowing from the center out and the air is free flowing. The amd heatsinks have copper heat pipes and is more vertically designed, the airflow is more directed down and out the bottom sides. I'm curious why each brand choose the designs they did.
I think the point is, that if you are gonna go higher than 60 degree Intel assumes you're gonna go for a t least a tower cooler. Otherwise Intel already provides enough cooling for stock clocks.
The Ivy Bridge(Core i7-3770k) stock coolers had Cu slugs and higher fin densities. If you go back to Sandy Bridge, the IHS's were soldered on rather than a cheaper thermal paste like the new ones have. They've consistently gotten cheaper with their stock cooling.
Both AMD and Intel have been doing this for as long as I can remember. Typically, on higher-end or hotter-running CPUs, you'll get a copper and aluminum heat sink, but the lower-end or cooler processors, you'll typically get an an all aluminum heat sink. This was more noticeable when Intel still included the stock cooler with almost all of their CPUs, like the i7 920 when the Core i-Series first came out. Besides, since you can get something like a CM Hyper 212 for $30, I never use stock coolers even on cheap builds running cooler processors. You get a nice, quiet 120mm PWM fan that you really can't hear even under load.
Aren't they using "lighter" coolers because of the lack of integrated voltage regulator, that went back to the motherboard with Skylake? Haswell had it, so they had to go a bit harder on cooling.
I have a problem with this test -It does not appear that you measured the Ambient temps -You mention the skylake heatsink having thinner fins but you don't mention whether or not they have the same fin density for example greater fin density is more important than thicker fins
If you are really limited in budget, you can buy copper - aluminum lga 775 cooler for couple $ and mount it on a 115x socket using m3 screws. Search for detailed instructions. Thank you for the tests. A lots of people just talk a lesser do. Practice is criteria of true.
I got the little tower Zalman 5X Performa for about $20 USD back in 2013. It still works really fine, and after installing it on non-K Skylake ( I didn't get the Box version because of the prices in Russia) i5 6500 I can't hear it without opening the case! And the temperatures are really stable.
I have a Haswell Core I3 4330 using a stock cooler. It is silent and runs at < 40C nearly all the time. If you're not overclocking or running lower power devices like Core I3 stock is just fine. I bought a Core I5 6600 (non-K), we plan to use a Coolermaster Hyper 212X. This is a 4 core machine vs. the 2 Core, I3. The stock cooler has its place, but not in high power situations. You can always try out the stock cooler and see if it's quiet and does its job, if not trade up to an aftermarmet cooler like the 212 series which is cheap and very effective.
That's an odd move, the Sandy and Ivy Bridges, Haswell, i5 and above all have the copper-type cooler, while the i3 and lower, have the aluminium-type cooler.
It's the same for AMD. Some of their heatsinks have copper slugs, the higher tier ones even have copper pipes, some are plain aluminium. They just gauge what works and what doesn't and go with what is most cost effective. If the TDP of the CPU doesn't require a copper slug or copper pipes, why include them in a stock, non-overclocking heatsink? And aren't thinner fins better for heat transfer? Your test shouldn't have used the stock paste, since that's probably aged and doesn't have the properties that it used to when brand new.
Shouldnt thinner fins on the heatsink itself mean better heat dissipation? Obviously the skylake stock cooler is worse just because it is missing the copper slug, but I would have to assume that the thinner fans should help it a little. Even though thinner fans will make the cooler cheaper to produce, I have a feeling that Intel knows how heat dissipation and fin arrays are related...so maybe they planned that part out?
Well, theoretically speaking, thinner fins would mean they can fit more fins around the heatsink which would equate to be more surface area. That's how radiators work at least...Now if intel actually did put more fins on the skylake heatsink, I do not know.
I think it's based on TDP and it looks like the cut-off is somewhere around 65W. Higher than that gets the copper slug. My i3-4160 (Haswell 54W) came with all aluminum version, but E3-1240v5 (Skylake 80W) came with copper slug version. I got an aftermarket heatsink for the Xeon, which reduced load temp by 20C and then swapped out the aluminum-only one for the copper-slug version, which also helped lower the load temperature, as your experiment shows. My conclusion is, copper slug ones are decent on lower TDP parts. On higher TDP parts, stock heatsinks are no good. It was actually throttling under Prime95. In otherwords, I wouldn't use the stock heatsinks that come with the CPU, but hand-me-down of copper slug version to lower TDP CPU works okay. Update: i3-6300 came with a *different* version of the all aluminum heatsink than the one that came with i3-4160. It's flimsier (lighter) and has curved fins, vs. straight fins with split ends on the older one. I knew about different fan brands (Nidec > Delta > Foxconn, in my opinion), but I didn't know there were multiple versions of the aluminum heatsinks. Yeah, I agree that they're cheaping out.
It's all pretty simple. In my experience of building computers for nearly 15 years now CPU companies usually cheap out on the stock coolers since most people are going for the aftermarket heatsinks and fans. Even especially with the new AMD and Intel builds that most builders will use water cooling or something else. My last couple AMD builds (Athlon X2 6400 and FX8350) use the stock fan which worked good for the most part since they had a good amount of copper in them with pipelines with minimal troubles though. Both do run rather warm though at 125tdp
If I recall correctly, Intel has stated that most people who would buy an overclockable processor use a 3rd party cooling solution, so it makes sense they'd cut down on their own coolers. And if you're on a budget, I'm not sure buying an overclockable CPU is the best idea - you do invest in some longevity there, but odds are your other budget components won't allow you to take much advantage of it. But don't take my word for it, I still don't know much about these things.
Also though, various heatsinks have different fin configurations. My locked Haswell 4120 has an all aluminum cooler with different fins than my 4790k stock heatsink. Not that it seems that the stock heatsink will be used on the higher end cpus. Not just thinner fins of any sort, but different patterns. One of them has forked fins, the other has spiral looking fins.
I usually never use the stock cpu coolers since their fans are usually low quality ones that make more noise than almost any aftermarket cooler with it's fan turned down (giving about the same performance). Noise is a much bigger factor for me than a couple of degrees of temperature.
havent finished watching the video but i do remember something about how different metals often dont like to play well with each other, with one causing the other to corrode much more rapidly than the other, maybe this is why my old P4 copper core heat sinks seem to all have brittle aluminium fins, while my even older P3 heat sinks still seem relatively solid
+denvera1g1 its funny to say that intel is doing this to save money, because their CPUs cost less to produce than AMD CPUs, really they are making money
I just swapped a processor in a Dell and Dell doesn’t use the stock intel heatsink, it’s a similar design but taller with more surface area. Apparently Dell doesn’t find the design adequate and they’re known to cut corners themselves.
I built a low budget PC for a family member a while back with an intel pentium g3220. I tried the boxed cooler but it was always wining a little altough that chip really doesnt produce any heat. Then a got an arctic 11 for 10 bucks and ran it locked at 1000rpm. To this day this pc is completely inaudible and never overheats.
To be honest, I went Skylake because it was cheaper than Haswell at the time. But looking at the system, everything is now on DDR4, with the 151 socket, so for the cost, upgrades will be cheaper since it will just mean getting a new 1151 processor later, where 1150 is at the end of its life. Stock cooler being what it is, that upgrade when I go to a K series processor later is easy to bear.
At 4:40 I noticed that with the aluminum-only cooler you not only had higher temperatures but also significantly higher CPU fan rpms and thus more noise generated.
Don't the skylakes run cooler? In that case wouldn't it be better to compare a skylake with it's stock cooler to a near equivalent haswell with it's stock cooler? I'd be interested to see if they reach similar temperatures in that case. Obviously the one with copper does better than the one without, but the one without copper is meant to run on a CPU architecture, that to my knowledge, runs cooler to begin with.
I would be interested in seeing the temperature difference between Haswell's cooler on a Haswell CPU and its Skylake equivalents. If this allows them to run within a similar TDP envelope, I don't see the issue. Also, as I understand it wouldn't the thickness of the blades have little to do with heat transfer? If only they used that reduction in thickness to add more blades...
Does it really matter? It still runs in the operating range. If you're running a stock cooler, you're not overclocking your CPU. You're probably not overclocking your GPU. Having your case a little cooler (assuming your case has proper airflow to take advantage of the better heat dissipation) is of no real benefit.
8 років тому
+JaySee5 Now that this video brought me ideas... Higher temps in a laptop world is more burn to your skin, even though they place multiple warnings of 'do not operate laptop on lap', I wouldn't even know anyone that has actually read that warning.... plus higher temps = more cpu fan time = battery drain.
Lower TDP means less cooling required. What would be nice to see is what temps the haswell had vs the skylake with there oem heatsink & fan. But honestly aftermarket 30$ HS&F is the way to go even if only for noise :)
Jumping from LGA 775 to LGA 1150 was a huge leap for me. Hell, I was use to being able to have decent OC headroom on the stock cooler, because they were actually built quite well. On the stock cooler for my 4690k, it would reach 85c in moments of launching a game on stock clocks. Intel really did cheap out with these lightweight garbage coolers, that will only keep it cool enough if your web surfing. Installed a 212 evo, at 4.2 ghz overclock it doesn't go over 55c. Kinda sad... but it is what it is.
got a 4770k without a copper slug, didn't mattter because i was water cooling but, interesting that you've found quite a few lesser models with copper slugs
I use a 2nd Gen Intel i7-870 (Lynnfield). The stock cooler is a bit taller than either of those, and has a copper slug to boot, surprisingly it remains cool and reletively quiet even when maxing out all 4 physical cores.
i bought two 4690k I5's and 1 came with a copper slug the other didn't which had me very confused... didnt matter i was using a aftermarket heatsink, but i was still curious as to why intel would ship 2 variants of the stock CPU cooler
the reason that intel doesn't include copper slugs in their newer stock heatsinks is because the new skylake architecture is based on the 14 nm manufacturing process, which helps reduce power consumption, and in turn, creates less heat.
I actually changed my thoughts about the situation after watching this video. If a CPU that cant be overclocked maxes out at 60 degrees that doesnt seem like an issue to me.
Having thinner fins actually is better for a cooler. Less material means the heat gets distributed quicker throughout the body of the heatsink and also there is more surface area per mass, which helps with heat dissipation. Yes, not having a copper slug sucks, but Intel seems to at least try to compensate by improving the rest of the heatsink.
Have you seen the old LGA 775 stock coolers for the Pentium Extreme Editions? It makes the copper slugs on modern Intel stock coolers just look like sleeves. They are also double the height!
For these non-k SKUs, it's not a big deal that they went with all aluminum for the stock coolers. The difference isn't big enough to warrant getting up and arms about it.
The Sandy Bridge CPUs also have that copper base plate. I also think that because of Intel's confidence on Skylake's lower 'nm' technology, it cheapened the stock coolers. Fine I guess.
I've got an old i7 intel cooler that looks significantly taller, and appears to have a solid copper cylinder in the middle unlike the copper bowl commonly seen.
From what I can recall, Intel's Haswell ran hot. That's why the reiterated Devil's Canyon ie; 4790, appeared. It had a better heat dye design. Maybe that's why Intel included the copper slug variant for that series. That would make sense.
Skylake is built for thermal efficiency. A copper slug was probably seen as unnecessary. If you want enthusiast parts, just buy an aftermarket heatsink for 30-50 bucks.
pure aluminum heatsink has lower idle temperatures when you turn on pc. but later,when that aluminum gets hot,copper heatsink is performing a little better
It is interesting to see them going cheaper on the cooler but I'm sure it's because it because they still have the CPU running at acceptable, as far as they are concerned, temperatures. And at that temperature it will still last until it's too old for gaming.
The Skylake processor I bought didn't include a heatsink at all (6600k). How did you get one with yours? Is intel including coolers with their processors again?
I personally believe that the reason includes the shareholders, because, especially with ryzen comming out, they perform better then the cpu they compete against and are much cheaper, intel still has a very high price on their top-line cpus, even though they probably could sell it for a lot cheaper
While the thinner fins do make it easier to break, don't they also allow for quicker heat distribution/dissipation? After all, it's much easier to cool a thin sheet of copper with a surface area of 25 square inches than it is to cool a one cubic inch block of copper.
I am using a Core i7 6700, with cooler master CM103 cooler, in benchmarks, my temps go as high as 75C, is it too hot for sustained load? My ambient temp is around 27C I Really didn't think that a 65W TDP cooler will generate so much heat as to require a decent cooler.
Some skylake chips come with the copper cooler. I've got a Skylake Xeon E3-1245v5 that came with copper and a Skylake G4400 that came with aluminium. Its a cost and TDP thing, the more expensive higher tdp chips get copper. The rest get the cheaper alu cooler.
Some do not ship with coolers (enthusiast cpus) I think Intel knows that people use aftermarket coolers to get cut back on the cooler that is just going to stay in the box. If you need to use the stock cooler, it will work, just not really well. just a thought
I just purchased an i7 6700 (non K). I would still do it again regardless mostly because I have a low rated PSU and don't feel like purchasing a new one as well as there was a decent sale on New egg that made the processor cheaper than the haswell. I was also considering an FX 8370 but the max wattage is way higher
Skylake is definitely NOT worth it. With current trends I would hang on to your CPU for at LEAST 3 years if not 5+. There are almost 0 improvements every year.
I'm still running a Sandy Bridge i5 2500 and don't have maxed out the CPU once be it BF4, Doom or KSP with a thousand rockets. I guess I run it for a decade until 2021
the sell point of skylake is mostly affordable DDr4 and pci3.0 support if you have anything of the 4000 range your prolly fine without upgrading anyway
"It's about 5 more degrees, still nowhere near the Tjunction, and we can save a buck or two per unit."
"Dammit Johnson, you're a genius."
That's exactly how the meeting at Intel went.
True. It sucks that you can't overclock on a stock cooler, unless you have a super low-end CPU like the G3258 :(
ECCENTRIC
Well you can, buuuuut.....not a whole lot compared to something more beefy.
I imagine that 5 degrees equals 100mhz+ before throttling... Would be VERY VERY interesting to actually know this!!!
Meanwhile, AMD is making their badass Wraith stock coolers.
At least have a selling point if their CPUs are nowhere up to par.
Still not gonna buy amd until they actually make a cpu that can compete a i7-6700k. Waiting for zen
Xamnition I wouldn't hold my breath on the new architecture being a threat to current or even older gen i5s and i7s, they have a huge architectural disadvantage and much more limited funds.
It would be nice to have competition again, like in the Athlon days, though.
***** Im going to buy the xeon e3-1230v5 and overclock it in the next week or so, im not going to get a zen cpu in a couple of years
i am not sure if zen will be able to compete with current i7 on par, but probably will get much closer than an fx could but at a lower price than the i7, offering an even better $/performance ratio, like the rx 480 does.
So AMD release far cheaper CPUs of nearly the same power, and include a wraith cooler. Pretty much equivalent of a hyper 212 (but it's something). But Intel charges super premium prices, and still tries to cut corners on their own cost without reducing the consumer price.
And people hate on AMD so much.
Hmm
+Mario Saltalamacchia Actually no. Its not the nanometers that matter but the die side. AMDs die sizes are bigger and take much more money to produce than an intel counterpart. Intel cpus (correct me if I am wrong) are actually cheaper to make than AMD ones. AMD cpus need more Silicone wafers to make the same amount of cpus as intel cpus. Intel cpus are cheaper to make and they still charge more.
+Nissan U. (SUBW00FER) You are correct that CPUs with smaller die sizes are cheaper to make, but that's not the only factor that decides the price of a CPU. Since Intel CPUs are usually faster than AMD CPUs, it makes sense that they would charge more. It's the same reason a core-i7 is 100$ more than a core-i5. Even though it doesn't cost Intel anywhere near 100$ more to produce an i7, it's more expensive because it's faster. Also chips made with 14nm transistors will be more expensive simply because it's a newer technology.
+il2xbox Because someone needs to pay for that Huge Research and development bill that Intel has. 14nm doesn't just appear out of thin air.
JRBricha
Correct, that's why newer technology is more expensive.
You do realize that a desktop i7 is EXACTLY the same CPU as a desktop i5 just with hyperthreading turned on, right.
Its not like an i3 that IS an i5/i7 with defects, letting intel disable 1/2 its cores and sell off otherwise flawed processors nice and cheap. And when they can enable HT on a crappy i3 why won't they enable it on the i5. Intel is just greedy and their effective monopoly means this will never change. AMD is unlikely to ever have a modern day equivalent to the intel-bustingAthlon64/X2 these days. Intels anti competitive practices of the past hurt AMD so badly that they're never going to be able to get that performance crown back again.
You can't compares different coolers without precise CPU fan speed control.
The fan on the Alum cooler @4:41 ran at ~1650 rpm, while the one on the Cu+Al cooler ran at ~1400 rpm @4:35.
Fix that fan speed, either with an external fan controller or some software then we can talk about benchmark.
hereiam2005 The aluminum heat sink dissipated significantly less heat despite its marginal fan speed advantage. I suppose you think you're being clever here but you're actually being pedantic.
Nope, that is exactly how you compare stock coolers. I mean, how many people will use a fan controller to fiddle with a stock cooler? It doesn't make sense. The stock configuration is what most people will use so I think it's only fare to compare them without any modifications.
They have been flip flopping between aluminum and copper since 775 socket, it just depends on how hot the CPU runs if they decide it needs copper or not.
+Frantisek Bernasek any heatsink I've seen has been solid once piece aluminum or copper colored copper center slug in the aluminum
+Frantisek Bernasek oh, I'm talking Intel branded stock coolers only
He predicted the core I9.
Michael mu. No duh it was going to happen sometime it was just a matter of when think about 3,5,7,9 it just makes sense
i predict the core i11 then
About time for i13
@@rogehmarbi I10 before 13
Hah
copper or no copper that heatsink suck either way
lolz
true that
If you're not overclocking, it works just fine.
Agree.... thx to Greg and his "Intel skylake 650$ build" vid my bro succeded to OC his 6400 with stock cooler to 3.5 ghz. Weird but works just fine.
flowergreeeeed
What temps does his cpu reach at max load?
I've got a pile of old Intel heatsinks, they're all copper core and one is solid copper including the fins.
IMO non K CPU should include good CPU coolers. But K CPUs should not include stock coolers at all and drop the cost down.
much ado about nothing. If it's a sufficient cooler, it's sufficient. You're not going to be overclocking with a stock cooler anyway.
likewise, it's definitely based on TDP, which he only mentioned in the description, unless I missed a quick mention in the video?
He mentioned it at 1:07, but it was kind of a casual throw in, so I can see how you would not notice it.
You keep forgetting how loud and obnoxious these piece of crap can be
It's about the consumer losing out. Skylake K models don't include the stock coolers anymore but they are still more pricey, even more than Haswell before it. Now if we get stock coolers with the non-K models, we get flimsy all-aluminum coolers that came with CPUs that are just as dear as the Haswells that came with the aluminum + copper coolers.
the jews did this
The only thing that would really pull me in any direction when considering a stock cooler is like when AMD basically did a redesign admiting "hey, our old coolers sucked, we know, look how much better we're going to do!"
Boy am I glad I went back on my plans to buy a skylake this year. I've been waiting for 2 years to upgrade, now I'm thinking it might be best just to wait for Zen, fuck intel and fuck their prices.
+Cestarian Inhabitant If the temperatures are nowhere near Tj max then it doesn't matter at all. A few degrees is nothing, and it won't actually increase the temperature of your system by anything either. All it means is the CPU is a few degrees warmer, but it won't produce or radiate *any* more heat because of that. Everything else will be the same temperature, and the cpu won't lose any performance either.
I think everyone should be able to afford a great air cooler like the 212 evo. Best part is it can be reused for your next build, and your next build! Worst case scenario you may have to one day replace the 120mm fan.
Some kind of 92mm 212x would be cool and quiet enough for locked processors, as 120mm is a bit of overkill and very unsuitable for small from factor builds.
+tshepp89 mounting hardware changes and gets lost. socket 115- has been the same for a long time but not everyone has a processor from that lineup.
+Skooteh True, but with the compatibility of coolers like the 212 Evo, I dare say it would mount to the vast majority of CPUs out there. AMD or Intel. It suits like 5 generations of Intel so far.
tshepp89 I said that, it's just that peoples (myself included) lose older mounting hardware. It also won't likely be compatible with a socket that comes out after you buy it (like zen).
+Martín Varela You mean the Hyper TX3? It's the same general shape but smaller and with a 92mm fan, fitting into budget-oriented cases much easier.
Im surprised that you only have 5k subs because your videos are awesome.
+Dallas Tate I am very thankful for all of you!
+Dallas Tate Exactly my thoughts just a week late.
183,485 as of right now.
sike
now in 2018 after 2 years of your comment , his subs are 370+ k
They probably went for a cheaper cooler since Skylake has also a better thermal interface, so they will run a lot cooler than before.
The copper core was probably implemented do to pre refresh Haswell CPUs having a horrible thermal interface material between the die and the IHS. My 4430 (lowest clocked normal power Haswell i5) reaches 100° C and throttles on the stock cooler on Prime 95 Small FFTs and around 87-90°C on CPU-Z's stress test.
not only that the coolers are getting thinner every generation, look at the old 775 stock cooler compared to the 1151 cooler
Exactly!
+Science Studio This video made me dig out my 775 stock cooler (q6600) and damn the copper slug is massive compared to these...
+Baumy 15
There was no copper slug in my E8600 HSF :(
the smaller transistors on the die also create more heat per nm and with a smaller overall die that equates to a bigger heat output, intel need better stock coolers for their chips. imagine if you could buy a 6600K or a 6700K with the LGA 775 cooler, you would have goodish thermals and some overclocking headroom
I have a Pentium 4 (LGA775) stock cooler and a first gen i5 stock cooler. The P4 cooler is massive, while the i5 one is basically the size of a Haswell i3 stock cooler. Both have copper slugs.
you said it yourself, its not just about saving money, its about not wasting money. the cheaper coolers are still more than enough to cool these locked cpus.
Not on tropical or desert environments.
Martín Varela if you live in those places you are part of the worlds small minority, and then you get the burden of either getting ac, or a new cooling system for your cpu.
+JamesMichaelDoyle India, Australia, mexico, north of Argentina, I dunno... maybe WHOLE BRAZIL you genius.
Martín Varela oh really?
The climate of Brazil varies considerably mostly from tropical north (the equator traverses the mouth of the Amazon) to temperate zones south of the Tropic of Capricorn (23°26' S latitude). Temperatures below the equator are high, averaging above 25 °C (77 °F),
omg! that's sweltering heat alright! you realize that Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA summers are in the mid 30s?
get a grip bud. only a small portion of the worlds population lives in the extreme heat. linustechtips regularly have shown stock coolers performing adequately with ambient room temperatures at 80ish F.
and once again, if you are one of the minority that lives in these areas, invest in an AC unit. will keep your room cooler and more comfortable, and allow your stock cooler to do its job. its not like you are going to OC these LOCKED cpus.
+JamesMichaelDoyle I live just below of Brazil (misiones, argentina) And I get 37°c peak on summer, so no, you don't feel the pain. I can't just trow 600USD just on AC, because that's about what it costs here.
It's because skylake TDP's are lower than haswell
Copper has a higher thermal conductivity and emissivity than aluminum, and so is used whenever aluminum is insufficient for thermal management.
I said that in the video.
Science Studio I typed that comment before I finished watching the video, probably should've waited before commenting.
All that matters is the final TEMPERATURE, unless Skylake somehow has a longer life at 5degC higher temperature which I doubt.
And of course FAN NOISE will be increased using the same profile.
What about how they gave a copper cooler on a locked cpu? Intel and their money.
You seem to be seeing what you want and ignoring what you don't like. The skylake processor runs cooler needing less cooling. You gain 5c of cooling with the copper block, but you don't need it. So, with intel wanting to save a few bucks, they went all aluminum. Where, with the haswell core, it was required to have a copper slug to keep the core cool.
I’m more surprised by the fact that stock heatsink is still a thing. I believe they shouldn’t include a cooler at all, especially in this class of CPUs. First of all, let's be honest, the majority of people who buy an all new Skylake i5 are not on a tight budget; they would have bought Celerons and Pentiums instead. Also, even a lot of those who are indeed on a tight budget are going to throw away that heatsink anyway and use an aftermarket one from a previous build if it’s compatible. Finally, if heatsink was no longer included the cost would drop for all even those who can’t afford an i5 but have a spare cooler. Then everyone would buy the cooler they can afford, depending on their needs for gaming, quiet mode etc. The current situation, where most people just throw away the stock cooler the moment they open the box, is inefficient, waste of resources, waste of money and “eco-unfriendly”
Interesting take, though I'm fairly certain these stock coolers only cost Intel a few dollars at most to produce apiece. Removing them from boxes will not reduce the price of the CPUs themselves by very much at all. And besides, they do work. $20 for a 3rd party cooler is still $20. It makes a difference for some. Additionally, most people don't have extra heatsinks "laying around."
If people are going to be re-using their liquid cooling setup, then Intel is pretty much throwing away a fancy metal slab for each one that is not used, meaning 'money lost' giving consumers stuff they don't use.
Also, in the last 10 years of people buying and getting 'cheap' stock coolers in every 'package' that was sold back then, how much copper is actually sitting in people's homes, garage, basement, closet, unused?
no. for intel cpu's you can choose to buy a "box" version with a cooler or a "try" without.
+yakir11114 I think you meant "tray" and not "try".
How much cheaper if you buy a cpu in a tray without the stock cooler lol?
an insignificant amount is sitting around. also, the price of those mass produced would be pretty small after selling the CPUs, but cutting down even a dollar over millions of units obviously makes a difference to Intel in the end.
melt down those back into copper and aluminum alloys, sell them for a better profit... Especially since you can find them almost everywhere.
Not sure why anyone would downvote such a useful video.
People on auction sites often give their stock coolers (copper) away with their i5s and i7s when they sell them. I got my copper stock cooler for free with my second-hand i5-3570k which I run at stock clock speed at the moment on a H61, good to know the copper makes quite a difference.
Thanks for watching and appreciating the content!
Meanwhile AMD is stepping up their stock cooler game with the wraiths. Hopefully Zen will deliver. I'd be willing to go to Zen if they offer a full blown 8-core with haswell level IPC from my i5 4670k.
100% agreed. Would be worth a shot.
+Riley Nelson my next pc is going to have zen regardless (well unless its another vishera...) im so eager to see ow they perform and hopefully intel will have proper competition
I don't really think it matters as the temps are still completely fine.
Intel has always been making coolers that are enough but only that. I actually wouldn't care if I would buy a new processor and I would install the new cooler instead of my current one that has a copper slug because of fan life. :P
Don't forget though.. cheaper CPU because not a k SKU, no aftermarket cooler needed and you can use a cheaper motherboard that doesn't have overclocking capabilities but exactly the same or close features and that could save 100 euros or more where I live.
The price to performance for the k SKUs isn't really adding up where I live. :P
If you are on a budget, go to ebay and search "tower heatsink", you can get them for about the same price as a stock Intel heatsink which you can then sell.
You only keep a stock cooler when you can't be bothered to do an upgrade.
Isn't cooper a better heat conductor than aluminium?
Yes, and has better heat dissipation properties. It's why any well-built graphics card uses nickel plated copper, not aluminum.
Science Studio Oh cool, thanks.
you should be able to look up the conductive (both electric and thermal) properties of metals easily. this goes hand in hand with your finding and its easy to see why they make heat pipes out of copper and not aluminum or alloys. Once I get a lathe I'll try my hand at making my own CPU cooler for shites and gigs #212EvoFTW
I still dont get why it matters in this case tho, as the fins are still aluminium :(
It also depends on the size of the cooler, not just the material.
This is what happens when you dont have competition.
I am using a custom cooler now. Actually not air cooled, so it doesn't apply, but when I first got my intel core I-7 4790K 4.0GHZ "Devil's Canyon" it came with a cooler that had a copper slug in it, but I also didn't realize it came with a cooler at all when I bought it because I bought it online from Newegg, so I had gone on Ebay and bought a cheap Heatsink which did not have that copper slug. I had also swapped them out and tested which one was better and I got similar results to yours. I have no idea why, but I was somewhat surprised. However the system was not as cool during multitasking, load bearing chores such as Streaming and Gaming while recording or rendering animation. With the stock heat sink it was getting up around 90c so I bought a pump, some radiators some heat sinks for water cooling and some radiators, fans etc. before even thinking about overclocking it. if you are just gaming, video encoding, etc those stock heat sinks are fine, but if you choose to overclock. Get a custom cooler of some kind, preferably water cooler or at the very least a double cooler like the Noctua Dual Tower CPU Cooler for Intel LGA 2011-0/LGA 2011-3 Square ILM/1156/1155/1150 and AMD AM2/AM2+/AM3/3+,FM1/2 NH-D9L on Ebay. I think I bought one for $54 and ran it for a while before saying "Nope" not cool enough, around 70C but I was able to clock it from 4.0ghz to 4.5ghz on this cooler. and it still stayed around 90c on that tower overclocked to 4.5 Now I have acheived 4.7GHZ on it and it remains at 40c under heavy loads, but intel claims you can achieve 5.0GHZ. I get a BSOD after 4.7 so no overclockie for me me after that, but it could just be the outrageous amount of power needed to run it or maybe it is not cooling down enough demanding so much from my power supply or some other hardware problem or liit preventing it from working. because the BSOD specifically says ACPI, I am not really a Hardware guy as far as pushing the limits goes, but I really don't notice any differences between 4.3GHZ and 4.7GHZ, It's never under that much of a load constantly to make that big of noticeable difference. Out of curiosity, I would like to read what other people have found on this particular chip. primarily because this is the chip I have. I know it's not the greatest anymore by far, but Curiosity calls and these chips are pretty common, so I am sure someone else has had an experience with them. Has anyone ever gotten it to 5.0GHZ without a BSOD? What cooling system have you used?. for me.. I don't really even need it at 4.7GHZ because like I say I find it adequate even at 4.5ghz and haven't really noticed any real stability issues or differences in performance between the two speeds. But also as I say I am extremely curious if anyone has ever done it because Intel says you should be able to get it to 5.0GHZ on air Cooling.. So.. It must be possible right?
Greg ma nigga whatchu gonna do bout that hair?
This is an old video, my man!
Still old. Channel started eight months ago...
It's thanks to all of you!
Eight months ago sounds too soon.
Feels like it's been a long time.
I must say, I discovered your channel by accident, but I'm glad I did! These are very high quality videos. Keep up the good work bro!
I am honored. Thank you!
I thought skylake didn't come with a heatsink??? Intel sold one seperately, but for the price you could buy a Hyper 212 Evo from CM.
Edit: NVM Turns out only K skus don't come w/ it.
Correct.
Skylake non "k" and xeon cpus have a stock heatsink
who uses stock heatsinks, seriously?
Harry Lawton I mean, I want skylake, but not the noisy stock cooler, so 212 evo here I come
my friend
And this kind of thing continues nowadays. The i7 8700 (non K) comes with an all aluminum cooler that completely fails to keep that cpu cool without throttling
Have you ever use an AMD heatsink? Fucking thing sounds like a turbine engine in my room.
Yes, I have. In a recent build, actually.
BlackSn0wz yes and they use standard fans that you could swap out and the wraith cooler is not that loud
I've been using an Ivy Bridge i5-3550 since 2012, and until about a week ago, I was using the stock Intel heatsink with the copper slug. I never had any problems with CPU thermals, at least that I could tell. It would rarely go past, say, 65 Celsius. My GPU on the other hand, a GTX 660ti, would regularly heat up to over 82 degrees. I'm not sure if it ever thermal throttled, but it certainly was alarming.
I just upgraded to a GTX 1070 and it has yet to surpass 57 degrees Celsius. I also swapped out the stock heatsink for a Cooler Master Hyper 212X, and my CPU package now hangs around the mid 50s under load. Obviously, with a non-K i5, I'm not overclocking, so this new heatsink wasn't anywhere close to a necessity, but I still picked it up for three reasons: 1: I now feel more comfortable with turning my case fans down to low and medium, thus lowering the noise in the room, because on high my case sounds like a jet engine; 2: I plan on getting a new motherboard and CPU when the Kaby Lakes launch, and with an overclockable i7 I'll definitely need the better heatsink; 3: I think it looks cool.
Obviously people are often on a budget, but I always advise friends to sink the extra $30 into a good heatsink. Especially given Intel's tendency to skimp out lately.
a real tech channel unlike LTT
+patrick Tighe LTT would of spray painted the heatsink to a copper color...LOL
+Karishin32 lol got that right
+Mario Saltalamacchia You'll find that most never even noticed the stock cooler change. So you're welcome.
I built a budget system (quite a while ago) with an i3 4130 and the stock cooler was all aluminum. It was also not up to the task, which surprised me. You would think the 4130 wouldn't need an aftermarket cooler, but in testing temp peaked at 78°C, and the case is pretty well optimized airflow wise.
Decent aftermarket coolers are pretty cheap these days, and even a pretty low end one will out perform the stock cooler, so I just recommend people spend the extra 25-30 bucks if asked.
Who uses stock heatsinks anyway?
majority of people
People who don't use their system for heavy gaming/rendering.
Who even uses heatsinks in the first place?!?!?!
people who dont use their systems for heavy loads won't even know about the CPU temp and wouldn't actually care either way. People who care about CPU temp will be more likely to be overclocking etc and should NEVER be using those stock heatsinks anyway. Hell the latest CPU's dont even come with one!
Sucks to know Intel is cutting costs for more profit (or less lost profit, depending on how you look at it) by ditching the copper.
4:08 Intel core i9 predicted
Hi
Those 5C at most are not worth to bother.
Purchasing an EVO 212 ~30$ will make the system much quieter with much lower temps.
And will probably migrate to the next build.
Also, a custom cooler can be added at any point, like few months later.
I agree.
Intel is becoming a monopoly, hopefully AMD will will this year
Very prescient words 👍
Sorry for pointing out a bit of chop logic:
1. A lower temperature cooler / processor does not reduce the case temperature, this is dependent on the processor heat output which does not change.
2. As long as you are below the throttling temperature of the cpu then the odd couple of degrees makes zero difference.
+Dave Bell I don't believe I ever claimed that a "case" would be cooler as a result of better cooling. The law of conservation of energy prevails. However, your second assertion is incorrect. Lower operating temperatures will not make "zero" difference. A case could be made for "negligible" lifespan extensions, but nonetheless, it's still there.
this vid is top notch 👌
Aluminium is a little worse conductor, but lot Cheaper and way Lighter
Subbed
Appreciated.
+Science Studio loughed
Not a word which describes anything in this context.
Science Studio k ;(
I think it's interesting how Intel heatsinks don't have heat pipes and instead it's a solid block in the middle with heat flowing from the center out and the air is free flowing. The amd heatsinks have copper heat pipes and is more vertically designed, the airflow is more directed down and out the bottom sides. I'm curious why each brand choose the designs they did.
I think the point is, that if you are gonna go higher than 60 degree Intel assumes you're gonna go for a t least a tower cooler. Otherwise Intel already provides enough cooling for stock clocks.
*What is the stock heatsink one gets with i5 9400f?*
The Ivy Bridge(Core i7-3770k) stock coolers had Cu slugs and higher fin densities. If you go back to Sandy Bridge, the IHS's were soldered on rather than a cheaper thermal paste like the new ones have.
They've consistently gotten cheaper with their stock cooling.
Both AMD and Intel have been doing this for as long as I can remember. Typically, on higher-end or hotter-running CPUs, you'll get a copper and aluminum heat sink, but the lower-end or cooler processors, you'll typically get an an all aluminum heat sink. This was more noticeable when Intel still included the stock cooler with almost all of their CPUs, like the i7 920 when the Core i-Series first came out. Besides, since you can get something like a CM Hyper 212 for $30, I never use stock coolers even on cheap builds running cooler processors. You get a nice, quiet 120mm PWM fan that you really can't hear even under load.
Aren't they using "lighter" coolers because of the lack of integrated voltage regulator, that went back to the motherboard with Skylake?
Haswell had it, so they had to go a bit harder on cooling.
I have a problem with this test
-It does not appear that you measured the Ambient temps
-You mention the skylake heatsink having thinner fins but you don't mention whether or not they have the same fin density for example greater fin density is more important than thicker fins
If you are really limited in budget, you can buy copper - aluminum lga 775 cooler for couple $ and mount it on a 115x socket using m3 screws. Search for detailed instructions. Thank you for the tests. A lots of people just talk a lesser do. Practice is criteria of true.
I got the little tower Zalman 5X Performa for about $20 USD back in 2013. It still works really fine, and after installing it on non-K Skylake ( I didn't get the Box version because of the prices in Russia) i5 6500 I can't hear it without opening the case! And the temperatures are really stable.
I have a Haswell Core I3 4330 using a stock cooler. It is silent and runs at < 40C nearly all the time. If you're not overclocking or running lower power devices like Core I3 stock is just fine. I bought a Core I5 6600 (non-K), we plan to use a Coolermaster Hyper 212X. This is a 4 core machine vs. the 2 Core, I3. The stock cooler has its place, but not in high power situations. You can always try out the stock cooler and see if it's quiet and does its job, if not trade up to an aftermarmet cooler like the 212 series which is cheap and very effective.
That's an odd move, the Sandy and Ivy Bridges, Haswell, i5 and above all have the copper-type cooler, while the i3 and lower, have the aluminium-type cooler.
It's the same for AMD. Some of their heatsinks have copper slugs, the higher tier ones even have copper pipes, some are plain aluminium. They just gauge what works and what doesn't and go with what is most cost effective. If the TDP of the CPU doesn't require a copper slug or copper pipes, why include them in a stock, non-overclocking heatsink? And aren't thinner fins better for heat transfer?
Your test shouldn't have used the stock paste, since that's probably aged and doesn't have the properties that it used to when brand new.
Shouldnt thinner fins on the heatsink itself mean better heat dissipation? Obviously the skylake stock cooler is worse just because it is missing the copper slug, but I would have to assume that the thinner fans should help it a little. Even though thinner fans will make the cooler cheaper to produce, I have a feeling that Intel knows how heat dissipation and fin arrays are related...so maybe they planned that part out?
Thicker = more surface area to dissipate heat.
Well, theoretically speaking, thinner fins would mean they can fit more fins around the heatsink which would equate to be more surface area. That's how radiators work at least...Now if intel actually did put more fins on the skylake heatsink, I do not know.
Thinner metals also dissipate heat more efficiently than thicker metals.
Nice video man! Like finding jems like you on UA-cam!
I just love your videos. I just wish you had more subscribers for how much work you put in for each video.
+King | GoofyMC Share his videos :) he's on the way up, just you wait :D
I'm so glad I found this channel. I have questions and you have answers. Thanks for the hard work. Keep it up!!
Thanks for the support!
I think it's based on TDP and it looks like the cut-off is somewhere around 65W. Higher than that gets the copper slug.
My i3-4160 (Haswell 54W) came with all aluminum version, but E3-1240v5 (Skylake 80W) came with copper slug version.
I got an aftermarket heatsink for the Xeon, which reduced load temp by 20C and then swapped out the aluminum-only one for the copper-slug version, which also helped lower the load temperature, as your experiment shows.
My conclusion is, copper slug ones are decent on lower TDP parts. On higher TDP parts, stock heatsinks are no good. It was actually throttling under Prime95. In otherwords, I wouldn't use the stock heatsinks that come with the CPU, but hand-me-down of copper slug version to lower TDP CPU works okay.
Update: i3-6300 came with a *different* version of the all aluminum heatsink than the one that came with i3-4160. It's flimsier (lighter) and has curved fins, vs. straight fins with split ends on the older one. I knew about different fan brands (Nidec > Delta > Foxconn, in my opinion), but I didn't know there were multiple versions of the aluminum heatsinks. Yeah, I agree that they're cheaping out.
I don't believe that's how it works. My i3 4150 came with a copper slug.
It's all pretty simple. In my experience of building computers for nearly 15 years now CPU companies usually cheap out on the stock coolers since most people are going for the aftermarket heatsinks and fans. Even especially with the new AMD and Intel builds that most builders will use water cooling or something else. My last couple AMD builds (Athlon X2 6400 and FX8350) use the stock fan which worked good for the most part since they had a good amount of copper in them with pipelines with minimal troubles though. Both do run rather warm though at 125tdp
If I recall correctly, Intel has stated that most people who would buy an overclockable processor use a 3rd party cooling solution, so it makes sense they'd cut down on their own coolers. And if you're on a budget, I'm not sure buying an overclockable CPU is the best idea - you do invest in some longevity there, but odds are your other budget components won't allow you to take much advantage of it. But don't take my word for it, I still don't know much about these things.
Holy crap, I didn't even notice that they change the stock cooler.I thought they were all the same.
+ItsFlashtime the pick the cooler based on the tdp of the chip, been this way for years :)
Also though, various heatsinks have different fin configurations. My locked Haswell 4120 has an all aluminum cooler with different fins than my 4790k stock heatsink. Not that it seems that the stock heatsink will be used on the higher end cpus.
Not just thinner fins of any sort, but different patterns. One of them has forked fins, the other has spiral looking fins.
I usually never use the stock cpu coolers since their fans are usually low quality ones that make more noise than almost any aftermarket cooler with it's fan turned down (giving about the same performance). Noise is a much bigger factor for me than a couple of degrees of temperature.
Yep. Like I said, I would only recommend those on the barest of budgets use the stock cooler. It's essentially a "last-resort."
havent finished watching the video but i do remember something about how different metals often dont like to play well with each other, with one causing the other to corrode much more rapidly than the other, maybe this is why my old P4 copper core heat sinks seem to all have brittle aluminium fins, while my even older P3 heat sinks still seem relatively solid
+denvera1g1 its funny to say that intel is doing this to save money, because their CPUs cost less to produce than AMD CPUs, really they are making money
+denvera1g1 i can see the thinner fins being an advantage over thick fins IF there were more of them, but there aren't
Back in LGA775 days, copper cores were very common. I find even the Haswells overheat with stock coolers if you max out 3 cores.
I just swapped a processor in a Dell and Dell doesn’t use the stock intel heatsink, it’s a similar design but taller with more surface area. Apparently Dell doesn’t find the design adequate and they’re known to cut corners themselves.
I built a low budget PC for a family member a while back with an intel pentium g3220. I tried the boxed cooler but it was always wining a little altough that chip really doesnt produce any heat.
Then a got an arctic 11 for 10 bucks and ran it locked at 1000rpm.
To this day this pc is completely inaudible and never overheats.
To be honest, I went Skylake because it was cheaper than Haswell at the time. But looking at the system, everything is now on DDR4, with the 151 socket, so for the cost, upgrades will be cheaper since it will just mean getting a new 1151 processor later, where 1150 is at the end of its life. Stock cooler being what it is, that upgrade when I go to a K series processor later is easy to bear.
At 4:40 I noticed that with the aluminum-only cooler you not only had higher temperatures but also significantly higher CPU fan rpms and thus more noise generated.
Don't the skylakes run cooler? In that case wouldn't it be better to compare a skylake with it's stock cooler to a near equivalent haswell with it's stock cooler?
I'd be interested to see if they reach similar temperatures in that case. Obviously the one with copper does better than the one without, but the one without copper is meant to run on a CPU architecture, that to my knowledge, runs cooler to begin with.
I would be interested in seeing the temperature difference between Haswell's cooler on a Haswell CPU and its Skylake equivalents. If this allows them to run within a similar TDP envelope, I don't see the issue.
Also, as I understand it wouldn't the thickness of the blades have little to do with heat transfer? If only they used that reduction in thickness to add more blades...
+nunchucker An increase in blade thickness increases surface area, which accelerates heat dissipation.
Does it really matter? It still runs in the operating range. If you're running a stock cooler, you're not overclocking your CPU. You're probably not overclocking your GPU. Having your case a little cooler (assuming your case has proper airflow to take advantage of the better heat dissipation) is of no real benefit.
+JaySee5 Now that this video brought me ideas... Higher temps in a laptop world is more burn to your skin, even though they place multiple warnings of 'do not operate laptop on lap', I wouldn't even know anyone that has actually read that warning.... plus higher temps = more cpu fan time = battery drain.
+Tyee Cambrón Huh? This is about a desktop cpu and heatsink/cooler. Laptop coolers are not made by Intel.
Oh k
Lower TDP means less cooling required. What would be nice to see is what temps the haswell had vs the skylake with there oem heatsink & fan. But honestly aftermarket 30$ HS&F is the way to go even if only for noise :)
Jumping from LGA 775 to LGA 1150 was a huge leap for me. Hell, I was use to being able to have decent OC headroom on the stock cooler, because they were actually built quite well. On the stock cooler for my 4690k, it would reach 85c in moments of launching a game on stock clocks. Intel really did cheap out with these lightweight garbage coolers, that will only keep it cool enough if your web surfing. Installed a 212 evo, at 4.2 ghz overclock it doesn't go over 55c. Kinda sad... but it is what it is.
got a 4770k without a copper slug, didn't mattter because i was water cooling but, interesting that you've found quite a few lesser models with copper slugs
I use a 2nd Gen Intel i7-870 (Lynnfield). The stock cooler is a bit taller than either of those, and has a copper slug to boot, surprisingly it remains cool and reletively quiet even when maxing out all 4 physical cores.
The thinner fins on the all aluminum cooler may actually net more surface area to compensate for not having a copper slug....something to think about.
+Ron Garvin They don't, because there are exactly the same number of them on the copper-slugged cooler, which are also much thicker.
i bought two 4690k I5's and 1 came with a copper slug the other didn't which had me very confused... didnt matter i was using a aftermarket heatsink, but i was still curious as to why intel would ship 2 variants of the stock CPU cooler
the reason that intel doesn't include copper slugs in their newer stock heatsinks is because the new skylake architecture is based on the 14 nm manufacturing process, which helps reduce power consumption, and in turn, creates less heat.
A few degrees Celsius doesn't justify a cheap cooler, IMO. Just pointing out the change.
I actually changed my thoughts about the situation after watching this video. If a CPU that cant be overclocked maxes out at 60 degrees that doesnt seem like an issue to me.
U r right.
Having thinner fins actually is better for a cooler. Less material means the heat gets distributed quicker throughout the body of the heatsink and also there is more surface area per mass, which helps with heat dissipation. Yes, not having a copper slug sucks, but Intel seems to at least try to compensate by improving the rest of the heatsink.
Thinner fins results in a lower surface area and thus lower heat dissipation rate.
Have you seen the old LGA 775 stock coolers for the Pentium Extreme Editions? It makes the copper slugs on modern Intel stock coolers just look like sleeves. They are also double the height!
For these non-k SKUs, it's not a big deal that they went with all aluminum for the stock coolers. The difference isn't big enough to warrant getting up and arms about it.
The Sandy Bridge CPUs also have that copper base plate. I also think that because of Intel's confidence on Skylake's lower 'nm' technology, it cheapened the stock coolers. Fine I guess.
I've got an old i7 intel cooler that looks significantly taller, and appears to have a solid copper cylinder in the middle unlike the copper bowl commonly seen.
From what I can recall, Intel's Haswell ran hot. That's why the reiterated Devil's Canyon ie; 4790, appeared. It had a better heat dye design. Maybe that's why Intel included the copper slug variant for that series. That would make sense.
As I showed in the video, the 4460 and 6400 both operate at similar temperatures.
Skylake is built for thermal efficiency. A copper slug was probably seen as unnecessary. If you want enthusiast parts, just buy an aftermarket heatsink for 30-50 bucks.
pure aluminum heatsink has lower idle temperatures when you turn on pc. but later,when that aluminum gets hot,copper heatsink is performing a little better
It is interesting to see them going cheaper on the cooler but I'm sure it's because it because they still have the CPU running at acceptable, as far as they are concerned, temperatures. And at that temperature it will still last until it's too old for gaming.
The Skylake processor I bought didn't include a heatsink at all (6600k). How did you get one with yours? Is intel including coolers with their processors again?
+Ryan Toomey My 6600K didn't either. Only non-K variants still come with heatsinks.
I personally believe that the reason includes the shareholders, because, especially with ryzen comming out, they perform better then the cpu they compete against and are much cheaper, intel still has a very high price on their top-line cpus, even though they probably could sell it for a lot cheaper
While the thinner fins do make it easier to break, don't they also allow for quicker heat distribution/dissipation? After all, it's much easier to cool a thin sheet of copper with a surface area of 25 square inches than it is to cool a one cubic inch block of copper.
Thicker fins have more surface area, and thus more contact with air. The number of fins between both coolers is the same.
I am using a Core i7 6700, with cooler master CM103 cooler, in benchmarks, my temps go as high as 75C, is it too hot for sustained load? My ambient temp is around 27C
I Really didn't think that a 65W TDP cooler will generate so much heat as to require a decent cooler.
Some skylake chips come with the copper cooler. I've got a Skylake Xeon E3-1245v5 that came with copper and a Skylake G4400 that came with aluminium. Its a cost and TDP thing, the more expensive higher tdp chips get copper. The rest get the cheaper alu cooler.
Some do not ship with coolers (enthusiast cpus) I think Intel knows that people use aftermarket coolers to get cut back on the cooler that is just going to stay in the box.
If you need to use the stock cooler, it will work, just not really well.
just a thought
I just purchased an i7 6700 (non K). I would still do it again regardless mostly because I have a low rated PSU and don't feel like purchasing a new one as well as there was a decent sale on New egg that made the processor cheaper than the haswell. I was also considering an FX 8370 but the max wattage is way higher
Skylake is definitely NOT worth it. With current trends I would hang on to your CPU for at LEAST 3 years if not 5+. There are almost 0 improvements every year.
lets be honest even haswell wasnt really worth it either.
I'm still running a Sandy Bridge i5 2500 and don't have maxed out the CPU once be it BF4, Doom or KSP with a thousand rockets. I guess I run it for a decade until 2021
theshinken XD now thats the spirit.
the sell point of skylake is mostly affordable DDr4 and pci3.0 support
if you have anything of the 4000 range your prolly fine without upgrading anyway
Ricardo 2000 series and up are still good.