Hi Rodger @ SB. I had the opportunity to build our family home and put a 7 kw (evo 7) heat pump from kensa with 2 x 90 metre ground loops in "ground search" did the drilling for me. i did get mates rates on both as i spent time offshore in the drilling industry, also i now the technical guys @ kensa. It cost me around 22 k (pre covid) if you shop around and can do a bit youself then you can get the prices down. I love my system, no oil or gas bills, no wood burners, and practicaly no maintenance! we add 7 kw sola on the roof, we cant fault it, best heating solution that iv ever had. I found your channel very useful throughout the build, many thanks. 👍🏠👍
My house is approx 3000 sq ft. Around 2019 I looked into a ground source heat pump. For a full system installation with two 200 metre boreholes I was quoted £45K. I was told that I’d also need a three phase supply for the size of heat pump required. The DNO quoted me £10K for installation. Without a three phase supply I would have required an auxiliary heating source (i.e. a small gas boiler). Instead I went with a 30kW gas boiler for £2500.
Exactly the response I had in 2008 when I looked at it, cost of the system was astronomic and 3 phase needed to give the required electricity supply.....so glad I decided not to go ahead with the current cost of electricity.
Wise choice 55k that's nearly 3k a year in interest at the moment minimum, so one years interest on that pays for a new boiler and you still have the 55k.
Our apartment block in Helsinki converted from oil heated hotwater ring systen feeding 15,000 apartments to ground source heat pumps in each block. They drilled throughout the spring and summer of 2022 completing the job in August 2023. The bore holes were in the car parks and surrounding recreation grounds. Hardly noticed them doing the work.
@@julianshepherd2038 because it has a massive draw back. just like it did is russia. Good luck getting anyone to contribute to it's up keep, so they then fall into disrepair. in Russia hundreds of blocks were left without heating. many people died because of it. because there was no neighbours house to warm up in instead, since everyone lost it. they put all their eggs in one basket. and suffered for it. They have now since moved more towards individuals heated home just like the UK, as such face nothing like they did before. since the chances of everyone's heating system failing is next to zero
In 2018, a 170 m borehole costed me 3700 € plus sales tax. Took one day to drill. Maybe it's easier to drill in the bedrock up here in the north (Finland)? Maybe costs are down also due to the fact that 15% of single family homes in Finland were heated by ground source heat pumps in 2022 and the majority of new houses are now built with ground source heat pumps.
The comments are always interesting on this about costs etc. obviously other ways of doing this but in the tight space the only option. We had someone in our village recently do this for water (not sure why we are on mains) people wouldn't really worry about the cost if they needed the water it's a decades investment and would never 'pay back' compared to mains water but people seem to think heat pumps in general make a bad economic case.
Interesting! There are quite a few installed here in Sweden. In particular when people do not have the space to install ground based heat pumps (loops of tubing in the earth), that often are cheaper around here. These are supposedly called mountain/bedrock based heat pumps. As I have understood the price increases with the depth to the bedrock (more tubing is needed). You cannot drill several holes too close either because they will cool each other. It is a high initial cost, and the heat pump compressor might only have a life-span of 10 years, which also add cost. For real free energy the possibility to combine it with solar panels could be attractive.
The best option is to combine it with solar thermal and use the surplus heat in summer to heat up the borehole. It's called inter seasonal heat storage. You can also do it cheaper with a cluster of shallow boreholes under a house.
@@SkillBuilder have you ever .. considered .. the cost of these vs solar tube bulk storage hot water tank.. a sh!t load cheaper, to install & operate, simpler & less problematic
I live in Lithuania and bore hole ground to water heat pumps are very common. However, I'm building a house at the moment and I've done the calculations and it's much cheaper to just put in 30kw of solar. But we have the land to do that.
You may laugh but ..... I used to live in germany and the village drilled a couple of deep geophysical wells for a district heating system. All was well for a couple of years until the well started producing oil. This corroded ghe stainless steel heat exchangers and they had to replace them with platinum. Despite all this great fsuccess. The price of heating is linked to the gas price and so the council are laughing and also the residents, it really is cheap on this scale
The German rep for our company had a borehole drilled for a heat pump as did a number of his neighbors. Unfortunately all the houses in his road now have problems with subsidence. The drilling punctured an impervious layer of rock and allowed ground water to make its way up underneath the row of houses and now they have a problem they can't easily fix.
Had a good chat with Kensa at the Fully Charged Show last year. They were helpful and not pushy at all. Agreed it wasn't for me and I understand the boreholes are seperate to the heatpump part and not included in the grant. Also a big upheaval for the chickens in the garden!
Good video. It would be really nice to have an explanation of how the final system works (diagram?) and how all the pipes are connected to each other. I don't understand how the different boreholes work together and how the they are connected underground.
It’s a loop. They drop 2 pipes down the borehole & pump a brine solution slowly through it. The heat pump extracts the heat from the solution as it passes through the heat exchanger. The advantage over air source is that the heat from the brine is at a pretty constant temperature thus enabling the heat pump to run at max efficiency
If you search for this old house geothermal on you tube you should get a video about a gshp in new york. The interesting thing is that some company designed a very compact drilling rig especially for drilling boreholes for gshp. It was very quick and recycled water etc. Most rigs are very large and you cannot get them into a garden expecially in uk. Make yhe drilling easier and cheaper it will be a good option for some people.
Best way to go. Ours is 198m deep, done in 1 day. But you have to be careful as you can’t have too many in one area, plus uk historic mining activities.
I’ve put a couple of ASHPs into properties because they were bungalows and it just made sense. I would like to know what made the vertical ground source make sense for this development.
The hole lasts 100 years and ground source is about 25 more efficient than air source. If you are around in 100 years you will be up on the deal. I think it adds value to the house because it is efficient but its a scary investment. New builds absolutely
I hope the next video will go into why you would choose this in the UK over an ASHP that is installed in a day for pretty much the same cost as a gas boiler and only marginally higher efficient (10-15%).
Pixies & Elves the music had me for a short time!!!! Chopin Prelude No 4 in E minor.. You should have used Number 12 in G# minor or A flat minor LOL!!!
Yes and that’s the point it’s free….so why the hell don’t developers do this on new build estates and levee the cost onto the properties? Just an idea …
Hi, I wanted to install a GSHP for a project in West London some years ago. The drilling rig would just fit through the garage and out the other side whilst the back extension was being constructed. Incidently, please try and show how compact the drilling rig is when they are taking it away. The quote was £19k but what scared me off was if they hit water whilst drilling. I was responsible for all tankerage required. An open ended liability, so I declined.
Probably the best outcome is that the ground source heat pump drill strikes oil, then you're sorted 😊 Alternatively use the holes to run a fracking system
I loved the chain spanner as well. I always like seeing these drilling rigs, both the vertical ones and the horizontal ones. Expensive process for a single home though, probably makes more sense for a shared heat network I'd think.
yes it does seem to be an expensive option but when you don't have mains gas and you are thinking about the next 30 years of oil or LPG it starts to make sense, especially with the £7500 from the tax payer.
. It is technically geothermal because hot water was pumped out if the well and normally it would be pumped back into the ground via a second well. When they drilled the first well it wasn't very successful so it wasn't worth finishing the project but the well was capable of providing a few years of hot water so they built a district heating system anyway . When the well failed they used a massive marine diesel to provide electricity and heat. They extended the heating system only for commercial properties bug it has been successful but not quite as good as they had hoped. The water was about 60 degrees and the strata was shale which may one day be fracked which is not as dangerous as fracking for fuels. One day it may fulfill its promise. I know an engineer who worked on it . He also worked on a scheme in Denmark at a place called Ars. Can you guess what they called the well?
in NL and BE they are starting to refuse permits for these geothermal bore holes. Due to concerns about damaging/ perforating underground (water) layers.
What damage? If water is there it'll still be there - the system uses a loop of pipe down and back up the hole - the 'heating' water never comes in contact with the ground water. In fact these systems work even better if the loop is in water, better heat conduction! Maybe the authorities should start reducing the water extraction licences for industry to prevent damage to aquafers through over extraction ! ! !
The only places in northern climates where it is worth putting these holes is where there is underground water flow. Those places have a good chance of the heat being replenished fast enough to last. Without that the slow inflow of heat from the surrounding area means the source exhausts in a decade or two. In hot climates they are OK. Cool the house in summer, and push the heat into the ground. Suck it back out in the winter.
It will just come back from the surrounding rock over summer, it would be interesting to see if anyone uses solar hot water to heat the rock during the summer to make it more efficient during winter
Coal mines are warm cos they're deep enough to be heated by the heat that's conducted out from the Earth's core. Any deep mine will work for this purpose.
What is the total cost for a system like this including the hole? And what does a gas system cost? And what does a district heating system cost? And what is the long time cost of both over a 30 year period? Remember to calculate for inflation also. I think this system is much cheaper in the long run if you expect to live in the house for the next 30 years. If you only gonna stay there for 5 years i dont think its worth the money.
My brother has a ground source heat pump in his rather large house in Berkshire, installed about 4 years ago, which cost about £30K. It was recently renovated, so is very open plan. The house needs a rather large wood burning stove to keep it warm in winter - below 7 degrees and the house is frigid otherwise. Not sure of the payback time.
Hi Alexay We hear from a lot of people who spent a fortune on heat pumps and found their homes were still cold. I would always have some auxillary form of heating for those cold days.
@@edc1569 To be fair I think the insulation is as good as it could be - very open plan, with high ceilings. Not sure whether he's got under floor-heating. Personally will be sticking with gas as long as they allow it in my house and a secondary wood burner
I don’t think they make sense for individual homes, Stithians has a project where they did 42 holes for the village which takes advantage diversity of demand so you don’t need as much overall
Another good video Roger. Having just been exploring the heat pump route my preference was for ground source. Accepting it would be more expensive but based on the figures given it was affordable. However, when the final costs hit the desk I was looking at 110% above figures given. Its certainly the best option for heating efficiency but too expensive for my project. ASHP ordered.
Would be interesting to know the cost of drilling the holes. Not exactly free heat, as it requires a lot of electricity to run it once completed around 1:4 efficiency or a little better. Can’t see how it’s cost effective to do this for one house 🤷♂️
We dont know what the future holds.. Elec prices may tumble next year.. Your investment may pay off.. it may not! When solar panels first appeared I was very tempted but waited until the industry matured.. Still waiting.. I still feel intelligently installed Insulation is still best money spent..
That's where you went wrong. In 2011, one of my good friends was a Sparky who had recently obtained his MCS accreditation. He suggested I give him £12k for a PV system I didn't understand but he assured me it was a sure bet. He was absolutely right, that system earned £2000/year, gradually climbing with inflation. It paid for itself fully in 7 years and is still going now. You shouldn't always be so hesitant.
I fancied a ground source heat pump but to avoid boreholes you need 100's of metres of garden, so really boreholes is way for the average person. Kensa were helpful but quoted £9000 per 100m borehole, which would provide about 5kW (subject to ground survey) (and this is just the holes, not the actual heat pump itself). The other thing to note is that the boreholes need to be some distance apart, otherwise they'll start to take available heat away from one another....... so again, you still need quite a large garden to implement this. It's a good concept but too expensive and requires too much space for the average person IMO.
10 місяців тому+1
Has anyone heard if these heat pump things are actually any good.? Because all I seen to hear is negatives!! I wouldn’t fancy one to be honest.!
Clearly it is not going to be economical to go for this system.. Payback timescale must be several decades and more taking into account replacements, servicing and ongoing electricity to supply the pumps.. First and foremost massively improve your home insulation.. Next fit mechanical heat recovery ventilation.. Then invest in good solar panels with battery storage. Then some air source heat pumps for hot water and home heating. After all that you still won't be anywhere near the cost of this ground source system.. Alternatives like wóod burners/logs/pellets etc could be used rather than a heat pump (assuming you live in an area where you can burn wood).... In any case that ground source system is only for people who have unlimited spending power .. if that's the case then keep burning gas or electricity etc..
about 50 on the top end. on the low end about 20. and people think it is "FREE" No they just pay 20 to 50 years worth of heating bills in one upfront cost. silly
Wonder how long it will take for the groundwater to become undrinkable because it’s contaminated with glycol leaking from these. EPA reckons 7ppm is the max lifetime safe limit for adults and not more than 6ppm (for 10 days max) for children.
@georgeliquor2931 lets make something clear here, the government can only give that which it took in the first place. The government has no money, everything it pays for is taken from you... the tax payer first
Dosnt need to be. Just need to be able to have it take the cold temperature form the coolant and heat it up. You need a lot of heat absorbent capability which is why you need a lot of loop to absorb the heat. Obviously I realise heat flows from hot to cold but it helps visualise it. Heat pumps are all about phase change and it’s the point at which it does that is where the heat is exchanged.
@@davideyres955 given the cost of bringing the rig to site, it would only be marginally more expensive to drill deeper - the higher the source temperature the greater the efficiency of the heat pump - money in the bank for the future.
Its not so much about the temperature as it is the thermal capacity. Deeper boreholes are usually done simply to increase the length of the pipe to be able to transfer the heat, especialy in lower density geology, though a higher temperature would no doubt be beneficial too.@@fraserhardmetal7143
Based on the companies own figures in the the link in the description it will be in round numbers £300 a year cheaper than using gas heating. I will bet that this chaos will cost around £10,000 to install, Oh and the figures compared between ground source rip off and gas/electric/oil were from July 2023 when prices were still hiked due to to the Russia invasion of Ukraine. Whatever, the pay back time BEFORE getting a financial benefit is 33 years!!!!!!! compared to gas central heating and that does not include how long the system will last before replacement costs and what the annual/ongoing maintenance costs are involved during its life time. 33 years before you are better off! Am I missing someting?
Hi Rodger @ SB. I had the opportunity to build our family home and put a 7 kw (evo 7) heat pump from kensa with 2 x 90 metre ground loops in "ground search" did the drilling for me. i did get mates rates on both as i spent time offshore in the drilling industry, also i now the technical guys @ kensa. It cost me around 22 k (pre covid) if you shop around and can do a bit youself then you can get the prices down. I love my system, no oil or gas bills, no wood burners, and practicaly no maintenance! we add 7 kw sola on the roof, we cant fault it, best heating solution that iv ever had.
I found your channel very useful throughout the build, many thanks.
👍🏠👍
I have always loved the idea of a thermal heat source, Great to see Roger.
This is not a thermal heat source.
AYE, ON ICELAND
@@TheYohtube What is it then?
@@TheYohtubeit is. It’s called geo thermal for a reason 😉
@@hughmarcus1Ground source heat pumps and geothermal are completely different things.
There's a small new build estate in the UK, where the builder put in geothermal drill holes under each pair of houses, that's the way to go.
Literally under the houses?
@@adrianchetwynd1334 I couldn’t be certain of that, but the cost saving was by using the rig on multiple units. Kinda made sense to me.
So when the house is old they can throw it down the hole😂
Forward thinking...A rare activity these days..
I agree
My house is approx 3000 sq ft. Around 2019 I looked into a ground source heat pump. For a full system installation with two 200 metre boreholes I was quoted £45K. I was told that I’d also need a three phase supply for the size of heat pump required. The DNO quoted me £10K for installation. Without a three phase supply I would have required an auxiliary heating source (i.e. a small gas boiler). Instead I went with a 30kW gas boiler for £2500.
That perfectly sums up the so called environment systems against reality for most people
Exactly the response I had in 2008 when I looked at it, cost of the system was astronomic and 3 phase needed to give the required electricity supply.....so glad I decided not to go ahead with the current cost of electricity.
We were quoted £33,000 just for the 3 phase by Western Power 😂
Wise choice 55k that's nearly 3k a year in interest at the moment minimum, so one years interest on that pays for a new boiler and you still have the 55k.
Shortermist I suppose, unless you’re doing lots of building work I’d probably do the same.
Our apartment block in Helsinki converted from oil heated hotwater ring systen feeding 15,000 apartments to ground source heat pumps in each block. They drilled throughout the spring and summer of 2022 completing the job in August 2023. The bore holes were in the car parks and surrounding recreation grounds. Hardly noticed them doing the work.
Are you blind and deaf because that machine is huge an loud
District heating is the way of almost everyone in the north but not uk and Ireland.
@@julianshepherd2038 because it has a massive draw back. just like it did is russia. Good luck getting anyone to contribute to it's up keep, so they then fall into disrepair. in Russia hundreds of blocks were left without heating. many people died because of it. because there was no neighbours house to warm up in instead, since everyone lost it. they put all their eggs in one basket. and suffered for it.
They have now since moved more towards individuals heated home just like the UK, as such face nothing like they did before. since the chances of everyone's heating system failing is next to zero
Here in Prague, my hot watr comes from a heating plant 35km away.
@@julianshepherd2038Hence the UK & Ireland are 15 years behind Europe in energy efficiency
In 2018, a 170 m borehole costed me 3700 € plus sales tax. Took one day to drill. Maybe it's easier to drill in the bedrock up here in the north (Finland)? Maybe costs are down also due to the fact that 15% of single family homes in Finland were heated by ground source heat pumps in 2022 and the majority of new houses are now built with ground source heat pumps.
British contractors only like to do a couple of jobs a month.
Very interesting, thanks for the drilling insights.
My mate had to have test bore holes drilled for his garage/workshop extension under building regs , it cost him an absolute fortune.
Should have stuck some pipes in after, ground source for free!
The comments are always interesting on this about costs etc. obviously other ways of doing this but in the tight space the only option. We had someone in our village recently do this for water (not sure why we are on mains) people wouldn't really worry about the cost if they needed the water it's a decades investment and would never 'pay back' compared to mains water but people seem to think heat pumps in general make a bad economic case.
Interesting! There are quite a few installed here in Sweden. In particular when people do not have the space to install ground based heat pumps (loops of tubing in the earth), that often are cheaper around here. These are supposedly called mountain/bedrock based heat pumps. As I have understood the price increases with the depth to the bedrock (more tubing is needed). You cannot drill several holes too close either because they will cool each other. It is a high initial cost, and the heat pump compressor might only have a life-span of 10 years, which also add cost. For real free energy the possibility to combine it with solar panels could be attractive.
The best option is to combine it with solar thermal and use the surplus heat in summer to heat up the borehole. It's called inter seasonal heat storage. You can also do it cheaper with a cluster of shallow boreholes under a house.
Cool video this. Nice camera shots
Very interesting stuff.
Thank you very much!
@@SkillBuilder have you ever .. considered .. the cost of these vs solar tube bulk storage hot water tank.. a sh!t load cheaper, to install & operate, simpler & less problematic
I live in Lithuania and bore hole ground to water heat pumps are very common. However, I'm building a house at the moment and I've done the calculations and it's much cheaper to just put in 30kw of solar. But we have the land to do that.
i need a bathroom extractor fan hole doing
It would be hilarious if oil started spurting out 😂
Well, messy... but it might eventually offset the bill they're racking up!
You may laugh but .....
I used to live in germany and the village drilled a couple of deep geophysical wells for a district heating system. All was well for a couple of years until the well started producing oil. This corroded ghe stainless steel heat exchangers and they had to replace them with platinum. Despite all this great fsuccess. The price of heating is linked to the gas price and so the council are laughing and also the residents, it really is cheap on this scale
Fascinating stuff.
Good watch coming from an earth loving geologist
Vertical Loop Ground Source ❤💯
It’s inferior to this method, plus you need a big garden.
The German rep for our company had a borehole drilled for a heat pump as did a number of his neighbors. Unfortunately all the houses in his road now have problems with subsidence. The drilling punctured an impervious layer of rock and allowed ground water to make its way up underneath the row of houses and now they have a problem they can't easily fix.
We would be keen to have more information about that job.
Nice chopin remix
I Like it ! Definetly the Way to Go - Cant wait for Part 2
THE WAY TO GO
Had a good chat with Kensa at the Fully Charged Show last year. They were helpful and not pushy at all. Agreed it wasn't for me and I understand the boreholes are seperate to the heatpump part and not included in the grant. Also a big upheaval for the chickens in the garden!
What's with the monkey at 5.55 in the clouds?
Chimpanzee.
Ape !
Early April fool I guess? BTW if you use a colon, youtube will turn it into a link. 5:55
Probably a technical name for that cloud formation. May have been after his big spanner.
Congratulations! Bunch of bananas coming your way.
Interesting stuff and a good job done
Good video. It would be really nice to have an explanation of how the final system works (diagram?) and how all the pipes are connected to each other. I don't understand how the different boreholes work together and how the they are connected underground.
That is the next video in this series.
It’s a loop. They drop 2 pipes down the borehole & pump a brine solution slowly through it. The heat pump extracts the heat from the solution as it passes through the heat exchanger.
The advantage over air source is that the heat from the brine is at a pretty constant temperature thus enabling the heat pump to run at max efficiency
@@hughmarcus1 I don't understand how they connect the different boreholes under the ground to form a loop.
Great video, I recal Rodger doing a video on horizontal ground source loops, would be great if you did an up to date video on that!
If you search for this old house geothermal on you tube you should get a video about a gshp in new york.
The interesting thing is that some company designed a very compact drilling rig especially for drilling boreholes for gshp. It was very quick and recycled water etc. Most rigs are very large and you cannot get them into a garden expecially in uk. Make yhe drilling easier and cheaper it will be a good option for some people.
If you hit a problem the customer pays 😊 happy days for the company
Same with vehicle repairs etc.
Like every plumbing job ever.
Nice rig
Best way to go.
Ours is 198m deep, done in 1 day.
But you have to be careful as you can’t have too many in one area, plus uk historic mining activities.
Very interesting, cheers sb
Why is there a chimp face in the cloud at 5:54???!!! 😂😂
There are chimps in many of our videos, once they get in it is hard to control them. They seem to pop up randomly.
😂
@@SkillBuilder👍
I’ve put a couple of ASHPs into properties because they were bungalows and it just made sense.
I would like to know what made the vertical ground source make sense for this development.
The hole lasts 100 years and ground source is about 25 more efficient than air source. If you are around in 100 years you will be up on the deal. I think it adds value to the house because it is efficient but its a scary investment. New builds absolutely
BASED ON THE MAGMA MODEL IN YOUR PRIMARY SCHOOL GEOG BOOKS, HOW LOVELY
Imagine coming home from work and finding that in next door's garden 😂
I hope the next video will go into why you would choose this in the UK over an ASHP that is installed in a day for pretty much the same cost as a gas boiler and only marginally higher efficient (10-15%).
Install in a day?? My proposed system is slated for a week. There is quite a lot of work but the price is super reasonable.
What the smallest plot that can sensibly be drilled? At what cost?
I wonder how long it will take to break even...
Pixies & Elves the music had me for a short time!!!!
Chopin Prelude No 4 in E minor..
You should have used Number 12 in G# minor or
A flat minor LOL!!!
free heat, when you pay the upfront cost that is the equivalent of decades worth of heating bills
Irrational
So a good investment.
Better the. Going through 2 gas boilers.
Clean energy, very good environmentally
Yes and that’s the point it’s free….so why the hell don’t developers do this on new build estates and levee the cost onto the properties? Just an idea …
@@brianp7022That is too simple.
Have you tried using a none return valve behind the drill bit to prevent blockages?
Hi, I wanted to install a GSHP for a project in West London some years ago. The drilling rig would just fit through the garage and out the other side whilst the back extension was being constructed. Incidently, please try and show how compact the drilling rig is when they are taking it away. The quote was £19k but what scared me off was if they hit water whilst drilling. I was responsible for all tankerage required. An open ended liability, so I declined.
Yep done the measurements and think it will fit through my 3foot gate might be tight though 😂
This was phenominally expensive.
Just did an online quote after watching this, the pump manufacturer reckons I’ll save £12 per year compared to my gas boiler #bargain🥳
Makes morse sense for those not on the gas grid
@@edc1569 . Maybe LPG but oil is about the same cost as mains gas.
Probably the best outcome is that the ground source heat pump drill strikes oil, then you're sorted 😊
Alternatively use the holes to run a fracking system
So how much does it all cost and how many hundred years before you have saved that money back
Sadly can't find the follow up on this video.
Boreholes are expensive, but a great idea if a bunch of neighbours got together to drill them for a district network
good stuff, but I spent most of the video looking for big chimps in the sky
I loved the chain spanner as well. I always like seeing these drilling rigs, both the vertical ones and the horizontal ones.
Expensive process for a single home though, probably makes more sense for a shared heat network I'd think.
yes it does seem to be an expensive option but when you don't have mains gas and you are thinking about the next 30 years of oil or LPG it starts to make sense, especially with the £7500 from the tax payer.
I'm glad you said it like that instead of from the government. It's out money at the end of the day.@@SkillBuilder
@@SkillBuilder im so glad im paying for rich peoples pet projects:)
Interesting fact, I believe the Civic Center in Southampton has used ground source heat energy for many years,
. It is technically geothermal because hot water was pumped out if the well and normally it would be pumped back into the ground via a second well.
When they drilled the first well it wasn't very successful so it wasn't worth finishing the project but the well was capable of providing a few years of hot water so they built a district heating system anyway . When the well failed they used a massive marine diesel to provide electricity and heat. They extended the heating system only for commercial properties bug it has been successful but not quite as good as they had hoped. The water was about 60 degrees and the strata was shale which may one day be fracked which is not as dangerous as fracking for fuels. One day it may fulfill its promise.
I know an engineer who worked on it .
He also worked on a scheme in Denmark at a place called Ars. Can you guess what they called the well?
@@ambassadorfromreality1125 No idea what they called the Well?
in NL and BE they are starting to refuse permits for these geothermal bore holes. Due to concerns about damaging/ perforating underground (water) layers.
What damage? If water is there it'll still be there - the system uses a loop of pipe down and back up the hole - the 'heating' water never comes in contact with the ground water. In fact these systems work even better if the loop is in water, better heat conduction! Maybe the authorities should start reducing the water extraction licences for industry to prevent damage to aquafers through over extraction ! ! !
The only places in northern climates where it is worth putting these holes is where there is underground water flow. Those places have a good chance of the heat being replenished fast enough to last. Without that the slow inflow of heat from the surrounding area means the source exhausts in a decade or two. In hot climates they are OK. Cool the house in summer, and push the heat into the ground. Suck it back out in the winter.
Could you chuck a rock of uranium down the hole. It would keep the ground toasty for millenia ;)
@@kawazukisoddbits2717breaching impermeable layers... Read other persons comment about how such a thing has caused subsidence in their area
Heat in this case is like a fluid in a well what happens when you empty it? Even Icelanders move theirs regularly and they live on top of volcanoes.
It will just come back from the surrounding rock over summer, it would be interesting to see if anyone uses solar hot water to heat the rock during the summer to make it more efficient during winter
This is pretty cool but how much does it cost? Not only the drilling but the equipment to store the energy?
Why on earth would you want to 'store energy'. Sorry that does not make sense. It is a heat pump.
@@mbak7801 Store the heat for use at a later time i.e. when it's colder?
How much ??
ive heard if your drilling into an old coal mine coal seam theres loads of heat is this true or a false????
true they are flooding them and getting heat from the water via a heat pump
Coal mines are warm cos they're deep enough to be heated by the heat that's conducted out from the Earth's core. Any deep mine will work for this purpose.
Seems like a lot of work for "free" heat, if I ever get these boys round they better strike oil!
What is the total cost for a system like this including the hole? And what does a gas system cost? And what does a district heating system cost? And what is the long time cost of both over a 30 year period? Remember to calculate for inflation also.
I think this system is much cheaper in the long run if you expect to live in the house for the next 30 years. If you only gonna stay there for 5 years i dont think its worth the money.
£48
Either 2 or 3 boreholes plus all the ancillary equipment would be between £30-50k
My back yard is about as big as the pallet in the fore ground, I’d like to know how they’re going to get the rest of that sh## in.
Apart from the risk of ground water contamination, don’t ground source heat exchangers eventually equalise temperature over time?
No it is solar heat
@@SkillBuilder then it’s not ground source?
@@SkillBuilder You've been sucked in.
I wonder how much of the heat replenishment comes from the earths core or/and sun.
Mostly the rain taking heat down with it.
My brother has a ground source heat pump in his rather large house in Berkshire, installed about 4 years ago, which cost about £30K. It was recently renovated, so is very open plan. The house needs a rather large wood burning stove to keep it warm in winter - below 7 degrees and the house is frigid otherwise. Not sure of the payback time.
Hi Alexay
We hear from a lot of people who spent a fortune on heat pumps and found their homes were still cold.
I would always have some auxillary form of heating for those cold days.
Classic builder getting away with murder, clearly took short cuts on the heating design and insulation and then the heat pump gets the blame.
That doesn’t sound a very good investment to me. I may be wrong of course.?
I don't think you are wrong.
@@edc1569 To be fair I think the insulation is as good as it could be - very open plan, with high ceilings. Not sure whether he's got under floor-heating. Personally will be sticking with gas as long as they allow it in my house and a secondary wood burner
Plenty of ground sauce there Roger.
where is part 2?
I don’t think they make sense for individual homes, Stithians has a project where they did 42 holes for the village which takes advantage diversity of demand so you don’t need as much overall
Another good video Roger. Having just been exploring the heat pump route my preference was for ground source. Accepting it would be more expensive but based on the figures given it was affordable. However, when the final costs hit the desk I was looking at 110% above figures given. Its certainly the best option for heating efficiency but too expensive for my project. ASHP ordered.
They're just laughing at us plebs from their gulfstreams.
so how much did this borehole cost?
Posted on Good Friday - so this must be the holy garden?!
Always wanted deep ground sorce heat. But never be able to afford it.
Ground source heat is available free of charge to everyone in the grave yard
@@SkillBuilder 😅
Another great video Rodger. However the cost for this free energy for goodness sake. Trouble is also most houses don't have room for a plant room !!
Would be interesting to know the cost of drilling the holes. Not exactly free heat, as it requires a lot of electricity to run it once completed around 1:4 efficiency or a little better. Can’t see how it’s cost effective to do this for one house 🤷♂️
We dont know what the future holds.. Elec prices may tumble next year.. Your investment may pay off.. it may not!
When solar panels first appeared I was very tempted but waited until the industry matured.. Still waiting..
I still feel intelligently installed Insulation is still best money spent..
That's where you went wrong. In 2011, one of my good friends was a Sparky who had recently obtained his MCS accreditation. He suggested I give him £12k for a PV system I didn't understand but he assured me it was a sure bet. He was absolutely right, that system earned £2000/year, gradually climbing with inflation. It paid for itself fully in 7 years and is still going now. You shouldn't always be so hesitant.
Two boreholes - for what size system in kW? I’m considering a GSHP.
I would say it is around 12kw
@@SkillBuilderThanks Roger, I’m looking forward to the follow-up episodes on this one and confirmation of system details including expected COP etc.
@@SkillBuilderHi Roger, When will we see your follow up video report please. I haven’t left my phone since this video 😉
Surprised the rod handler isn't automated
Could see them doing this in the average back garden
That’s a proper welsh accent there. Bet he comes from mining stock, good lad.
Why haven’t you got subtitles for that welch man😂could they reach Australia with that kit ?
I don't think there is a more intelligible accent in the U.K. They sing their words
Would that be Raquel's brother?
Will need Alan Titchmarsh round to sort out the garden😅
Best to do it after the bore holes
They should have let me do this job, I can bore for England
Do we need a bore hole in the garden?
No.
But we will always find a need for the *B I G D R I L L* 🤪
I fancied a ground source heat pump but to avoid boreholes you need 100's of metres of garden, so really boreholes is way for the average person. Kensa were helpful but quoted £9000 per 100m borehole, which would provide about 5kW (subject to ground survey) (and this is just the holes, not the actual heat pump itself). The other thing to note is that the boreholes need to be some distance apart, otherwise they'll start to take available heat away from one another....... so again, you still need quite a large garden to implement this.
It's a good concept but too expensive and requires too much space for the average person IMO.
Has anyone heard if these heat pump things are actually any good.? Because all I seen to hear is negatives!!
I wouldn’t fancy one to be honest.!
Bit like when they invented sliced bread, hysteria at first.
Are we just ignoring the monkeys head at 5:55 then?
This procedure must cost a fortune to carry out. Extremely long term return on investment.
Clearly it is not going to be economical to go for this system.. Payback timescale must be several decades and more taking into account replacements, servicing and ongoing electricity to supply the pumps..
First and foremost massively improve your home insulation.. Next fit mechanical heat recovery ventilation.. Then invest in good solar panels with battery storage. Then some air source heat pumps for hot water and home heating. After all that you still won't be anywhere near the cost of this ground source system.. Alternatives like wóod burners/logs/pellets etc could be used rather than a heat pump (assuming you live in an area where you can burn wood)....
In any case that ground source system is only for people who have unlimited spending power .. if that's the case then keep burning gas or electricity etc..
How do they get on with a small garden😂
There is a Chimpanzee in the clouds at 5:53 for some reason :)
chimpanzees do not need a reason, they just are.
@@SkillBuilder Fair enough 😆. Big fan of the channel by the way. Keep up the good work 👍.
Looking out to see who is doing monkey job nowadays 😂
prob take 30+ years to get yr money back !
Put in a log burner 😂 keeps you warm twice
Thought you might have struck oil when i first looked...
That MUST cost A FORTUNE!! .... How many YEARS until it pays for itself ?? 90 or 99yrs ?? 😵💫😵🥴
about 50 on the top end. on the low end about 20. and people think it is "FREE"
No they just pay 20 to 50 years worth of heating bills in one upfront cost. silly
Wonder how long it will take for the groundwater to become undrinkable because it’s contaminated with glycol leaking from these. EPA reckons 7ppm is the max lifetime safe limit for adults and not more than 6ppm (for 10 days max) for children.
The treasury should pay for this
do you mean the tax payer?
@@SkillBuilder Better than the money being sent abroad to fund death and destruction in wars that have nothing to do with us
@georgeliquor2931
lets make something clear here, the government can only give that which it took in the first place.
The government has no money, everything it pays for is taken from you... the tax payer first
That is not deep in drilling terms - not a huge increase in temperature at that depth.
Dosnt need to be. Just need to be able to have it take the cold temperature form the coolant and heat it up. You need a lot of heat absorbent capability which is why you need a lot of loop to absorb the heat. Obviously I realise heat flows from hot to cold but it helps visualise it. Heat pumps are all about phase change and it’s the point at which it does that is where the heat is exchanged.
@@davideyres955 given the cost of bringing the rig to site, it would only be marginally more expensive to drill deeper - the higher the source temperature the greater the efficiency of the heat pump - money in the bank for the future.
Its not so much about the temperature as it is the thermal capacity. Deeper boreholes are usually done simply to increase the length of the pipe to be able to transfer the heat, especialy in lower density geology, though a higher temperature would no doubt be beneficial too.@@fraserhardmetal7143
Has anyone considered the knock-on effect of leeching all of this heat from the Earth’s crust?
No, you are the first person to ever think about it. You are very special
Would have been ironic if they struck oil😂
I looked into it and decidef it would be cheaper to burn bundles of £20 notes for warmth.
Might be different now the
£20 s are plastic.
its not free heat when a borehole is £15k-£20k, needs to come down in price, definitely seems a better solution than air source heat pumps
Based on the companies own figures in the the link in the description it will be in round numbers £300 a year cheaper than using gas heating. I will bet that this chaos will cost around £10,000 to install, Oh and the figures compared between ground source rip off and gas/electric/oil were from July 2023 when prices were still hiked due to to the Russia invasion of Ukraine. Whatever, the pay back time BEFORE getting a financial benefit is 33 years!!!!!!! compared to gas central heating and that does not include how long the system will last before replacement costs and what the annual/ongoing maintenance costs are involved during its life time. 33 years before you are better off! Am I missing someting?