The initial loss of control. The correction. The throttle. The pulling back hard. The use of aileron to turn. The idea you should “go around” whilst off the runway. So so many bad instincts.
This guy was using the yoke like a steering wheel. Is that because he was poorly trained or because when he suddenly found himself in a bad situation his brain turned off and his instincts learned from years of driving cars took over? When presented with a life and death situation some people panic and no amount of training will overcome their fear where others remain calm and use their knowledge to work the problem. A simulated engine out is just that a simulation. With a CFI sitting in the seat beside you its not a life and death situation, you know the CFI will take over if you mess up. No CFI can be 100% sure their student will follow their training in a real life and death situation because putting their student in a real life and death situation would be irresponsible. Just look to the pilots who have thousands of hours and stall their airplane when they have an engine out. Is it because they never learned that airspeed is important in those thousands of hours or because they panicked and found themselves incapable of utilizing their training and knowledge?
@@ulbuilder All fair criticisms and questions. Many high time pilots do not practice stalls, and even less so turning stalls. Few pilots practice turning stalls, which is how most stall/spin accidents tend to happen. On one of my own very first flight lessons (2nd or 3rd flight), as I was leaving the parking lot in my car, I tried to steer with the pedals and stepped on the gas hard. I pulled off the edge of the road and took a moment to remind myself I was in a car and what the controls did. After that I never had a problem keeping them separate. Not sure what others experienced, if anything. But this student failed to use the rudder properly on landing to begin with, then proceeded to stomp on the rudder like the Hulk, and jammed the throttle full forward in a clear attempt to fly again rather than understand that the plane would stop sliding and rolling eventually, same as Any car. To me that alone was already unacceptable behavior, and would result in me doing some serious retraining of the student. But then he followed that up with careening out of control across teh entire airport while yanking back hard on teh yoke desperate to make it fly again as if he could just will it to happen. This more so to me speaks to the absolute lack of understanding. He clearly has not been paying attention one bit in any of his lessons about how long it takes to accelerate under good conditions. Yanking the yoke full aft? Who taught him to do that? I can understand the panicked instinctive response at this point to just crank the yoke to the right. But every decision he made was wrong, and some were egregious in my opinion even considering instinctive car knowledge. He was on the ground, he should not have applied power. Clearly wasn't taught good decision making nor understood the purpose of a go around, making him unfit to solo. Instructors need to take care to test their students in xwinds, and less than perfect conditions and situations to ensure their students are reacting properly, and demonstrating an understanding of how to handle the plane should something go wrong. It's been my experience that something unexpected or unanticipated will ALWAYS occur on a person's first solo (if only just an unusual traffic situation in the pattern). They need to be able to adapt, not merely fly the plane. They don't need to be perfect, but they have to be able to handle teh situation and fall back on the fundamentals (roll, pitch, yaw, and throttle, keep your airspeed, and don't rush or force things, take a moment to circle or just fly the pattern if necessary while thinking through it, willing to abort a bad landing early). A common situation for many is ballooning or rounding out too high or too aggressively, never having flown the plane so light before, and being surprised by that. Perhaps a few lessons flown light on fuel prior to solo, followed by flying the solo with a little extra fuel (to account for the CFI) to make the first flight a little less surprising in that regard. No matter what, I question this student's readiness to fly that day, and of the CFI's ability to teach and or judge the students' readiness.
When he hit full throttle, at that moment I could see this wasn't going to end well. I'm also a student pilot, who bought an airplane before getting my pilots license. So these evaluations help me with striving to be calm and work towards being a safe and proficient pilot. Cheers from Winnipeg.
I bought my plane before I passed best thing you can do the best thing you can do fly that plane all the time when V F R keep you on the ground when weather is bad hey I can go up tomorrow don't have to fly everyday
@@easttexan2933 I admit that I am confused about this video. At the very beginning of the video, when the plane crashes into the hanger, I thought that that was the flight instructor yelling as the student crashed into the hanger.
Growing up in Mexico, we had these little four-wheeled slider carts that we would control with our feet. On my first flight lesson, it was natural for me to control the plane on the ground with the pedals. It was weird how much muscle memory I had some twenty years later. Thanks for posting this and the tips on how to avoid it.
I was JUST talking about this (original) video with my instructor. We had a scary encounter the other day. I’m a 50 hr pilot and nearing Checkride, for reference. When my 172’s nose touched down a few seconds later the dreaded Cessna shimmy started. No big deal, I’ll just apply strong back pressure and break the oscillation. Except it didn’t stop. The nose wheel just shimmied harder and harder and then the plane suddenly started pulling to the left towards the edge of a wide runway. I can’t say exactly what we did or didn’t do except that we both tried corrective rudder input and it didn’t work. We were able to get it under control before leaving the runway but it was close. The funny part is my instructor asked me why I didn’t apply throttle and go around (like why was my instinct to not do a worse thing like take off.) I told her THIS video had haunted me so much when I first saw it that my instinct forever will be to shut it off and ride it out into the grass. I heard someone say “Never take your problems into the air with you”. Better to do some off-roading and beat up your plane a bit rather than do a landing with a broken nose wheel or something.
@@gringoloco8576 No, smooth as butter landing. It was just getting really loose in the linkage. At that point anything can start the oscillation. They rebuilt the nose assembly afterwards.
Hmm, wondering if there might be a cracked bracket that holds the oleo strut in place that’s causing the shimmering. I’ve experienced the same. Good on ya for keeping it on the ground. Your CFI might’ve been trying to see if you articulated your reasoning for staying on the ground instead of criticizing your decision. Anyway, keep up the flying!
Going around would have been a poor decision. Lowering the impact energy is the best plan. Your aircraft kept shimmering because the aircraft had a nosewheel linkage fault. It takes very little to get a front wheel to start oscillating and a loose linkage causing the nosewheel to flop sideways back and forth a few times will easily start it under conditions that are encountered when landing.
Good call - had something similar when I was a solo student taking off on a hot day many summers ago. At rotate it was clear I was struggling to get airborne and climb away on this very hot day, so rather than carry on and risk disaster I put her back down and braked safely to a stop before the end of the runway. A valuable lesson learned, don’t panic but evaluate and commit to your best option.
Jason, when I was a student pilot many moons ago, one thing that frustrated me more than anything was the instructor likes of “use the the rudder”, “balance with rudder” etc. As a raw student, I had no idea what the instructor was babbling on about. Instructional “patter” needs to be very clear and understandable to the student. All too often, students won’t ask for clarification for terms they don’t understand. Your videos are a breath of fresh air in the clarity. Wish I had learnt with you… appreciate your time and effort putting these together,
Student pilot here with about 8 hours in the 172. These are great lessons learned and I will make sure to practice the skills that you talked about here. Great video!
Well this is horrifying to watch on so many levels. As student pilot myself, who has actually witnessed another student at my school crash on a touch and go after losing directional control, this is my worst nightmare. I feel like I would have yanked the power all the way out and applied the brakes, but I'm still very new as well. This could EASILY be me. This is why I love this channel. I learn things that perhaps my CFI hasn't covered yet, or expands on the knowledge that she has already passed on.
That would have been a much better instinct. If you're going off the runway and you don't think you can save it with the rudder, go power idle and brake. Slower speed is much better than more speed.
I’m sorry, but some things are really just COMMON SENSE!! Does not excuse, being a “new” or student pilot. As you correctly said, basic common sense in this case would have been to pull the power out and STOP. You don’t attempt a go around in the insane situation he was in!! Stopping in the grass, or in the worst case, even a “mild” rollover is not the end of the world. The choice to go around could have resulted in a far worse outcome, including a fatal one! You can’t possibly TEACH everything in aviation. There are an infinite number of variables and the resulting situations that may arise! That is why you are “pilot-in-command” when you get your wings, and are expected to make a “reasoned” and “thoughtful” decision for the safety of the flight!
@@747-pilot Common sense doesn't mean anything when you're thrown into a new situation that you've never experience before. Rigorous and recurrent training is the only solution.
@@747-pilot Very easy for you to be typing this especially in hindsight of the video. I think you've misunderstood what they were trying to say. They're basically saying that it seems obvious what the correct actions are when looking at other people's mistakes but whenever we are put in those situations no one knows what could happen. In this case, it would be pretty unlikely that a proficient pilot makes so many mistakes that the guy in the video did, but it still doesn't mean we know everything or that we aren't going to make mistakes.
Wow, totally amazing footage. Glad he is OK after that little mishap. Could have been much worse for sure. Appreciate letting us learn from the undoubtedly terrifying experience. R.I.P. little Cessna.
I’ve started playing a flight sim in the past few days, and the effect of rudders vs yoke to control direction on the ground became obvious pretty quick. Even though I’m just playing a game, I look forward to watching more of your tips.
Private pilot here, it is even more obvious in a real aircraft, you kinda feel it and you just do it by muscle memory. This student pilot had bad habits that became his muscle memory, he probably doesn’t understand the controls that well or uses with ailerons when taxying and his instructor never noticed or something like that
I haven't instructed in several years. One thing I never liked was the option of soloing someone with 10 hours. I remember my first solo at 10 hours, instructor stepped out and I was all confidence. Turning downwind to base a shot of anxiety took over that lasted a few seconds but quickly realized that was no help. When I was taking my CFI check ride the examiner asked when it was acceptable to sign off a student for solo. I gave him several acceptable answers but he wanted to hear that the student exhibited consistency in the task, or any other task. One student I had, an older gentleman would land 4 out of 5 well, he always seemed to screw one up where I would take over. Eventually I suggested someone else might be able to help him. Next instructor would not sign him off either for solo. I have passed every check rides on the mark as far as logged time goes. I only felt the solo was allowed too early. I didn't solo students until they had at least 15 hours and possibly more. It is a bit more expensive but why risk an incident and why stress someone out. Keep the training enjoyable and lessen the stress. I enjoy your channel.
As someone who has being in a very similar situtaion, I feel for the guy. As a low hours pilot I wrapped a wing tip of an LSA into a runway sign at about 40kts after a loss of control incident doing touch and goes on a windy Saturday morning 3 years ago. Trust me, sh*t happens quicky and in slow motion all at the same time. Hopefully your training kicks but you still can only do the best you can. As one guy said to me, as a low hrs pilot everyone carries one a bucket marked "experience" and another marked "luck", you just hope one fills up before the other runs out.
What I also hate seeing -- though I know it's a natural reflex -- is the hard pull back on the yoke. If someone makes this reflexive pull in the air, it's likely to cause a stall that could be recovered from with proper control inputs, but someone who reflexively pulls into a stall might not think to reverse the input to get out of the stall.
The irony is that the pull saved his life. Had he not done that - the aircraft would have become airborn and crashed into the roof of that hangar, lights out.
A lot of students have it drilled into them that the go-around is a "get out of jail free" card whenever they get in trouble. This student pushed the throttle all the way in when he realized he was veering off. He never did pull the throttle. The go-around is indicated during unstable approaches. But when the wheels are on the ground the pilot must quickly evaluate a trouble situation and choose the best option, which in this case was to idle the engine and apply the brakes.
What a cool idea with high speed taxi on long runways! Maybe put on the hood too if the plane's nose is not high enough (as long as there's an instructor running this)
I was not allowed to do “touch and go” as a solo student pilot. The same should’ve been the case with this student pilot. Hard lessons for both the student and the CFI.
Jason, I'm so glad you posted this video. At my flight school we have cockpit video + audio of a student solo from a few years back where something similar occurred, but without the massive crash. This student was on final for her first touch-and-go and failed to recognize a developing light crosswind scenario. This was in a Cessna 162 Skycatcher, an LSA. She touched down approx 20-30 feet left of centerline (on a 150-foot wide runway) and applies full power to begin her second round in the pattern (expectation bias... I am GOING to do three touch and go's). As she is reaching over to retract the electric flaps, she realizes that she has just lifted a wing and is heading towards the grass. Unbeknownst to her, the right crosswind combined with the left-turning tendencies caused her right wing to lift and the aircraft to veer to the left. She then SLAMS the stoke to the right and aft, which caused the aircraft to veer back to the centerline. Given her airspeed at the time, she then departs on the upwind with her CFI watching, scared shitless on the ground. The most significant cause of this incident was expectation bias and the lack of ingrained knowledge of directional control (i.e. use of the rudders). Luckily no one was hurt and the student went on to be a great Private Pilot.
@@marcelob.5300 It was NOT a typo. This is unique control on the Cessna 162 that is a combination between a yoke and a stick, like you might see in a Diamond or Cub. Google "Cessna 162 Stoke" on Images.
I think it would be very important to mention the full aft elevator. Had he got speed to lift off, the stall spin could have very well killed him. Great videos. Gets us thinking critically!
Can you imagine what would have happened had he achieved rotation speed and lifted off with that much aileron? We have all unconsciously used that little steering wheel when the wind pushed us off to the side a little bit and realized that was the wrong move.
Saw the end results of a student that had not flown for over 90 days and while taxiing he was looking down doing something and drifted left off taxiway , down a ditch and right into an 8 foot chain link fence. CFI caught a bit of grief from flight school allowing this student to go up without a review.
The real question is how the student ended up alone in the cockpit, as he (probably) needed a fair bit more practice and review before being sent flying solo.
Haven't done much high speed taxi, but that sounds like a solid move. I am a student pilot coming up on first solo. Last week I had my first lesson on the importance of hitting centerline. Perfectly smooth landing, straight on center line. Mains touched, nose touched, rolled about 50 feet and left main blew, plane immediately slid HARD left, CFI and I both input full right rudder and brake. Managed to keep her on the runway by about 3 feet. Unique experience, but definitely drives home the importance of centerline. The guys came out, huddled under the wing, lifted it up, tire off and replaced and we were back in the air in 15 minutes. Hit that centerline and stay on it. Cheers all
Very good thing to know, glad it turned out alright. I’m about to solo cross country for the first time in not very long, and always had the wonder of how I’d have to react if a tire blew. How much right rudder and brakes did you roughy have to use. Trying to get a mental picture just in case it ever happens to me.
In fairness, he's kinda lucky that hangar was there, because if he'd had a little more room to get that plane airborne again through that stall, the way he was yanking on the yoke...well, we very likely wouldn't be sitting here talking about how he survived it anymore.
The proper way to handle a situation like this is simple. Right before you hit the hanger, let out a little yelp. He nailed that. Then you pee yourself, but just a little. You don’t want to embarrass yourself.
According to the video, I remember on that day it was strong wind and crosswind gusting around 18-25 kts. My solo flight was cancelled and my school was not allow any flight to fly. My flight school is not far from this airport. Just wonder why he was allowed to fly under that condition? 🤔 By the way, thank you for your tip. I got a lot from you and passed my flight test last year. 🥳
My reaction to that is... "holy crap"! All he had to do was pull the throttle to idle and apply the brakes while gently applying enough right rudder to regain directional control. The minute you said he applied full power, my heart sank. He had plenty of runway to stop. However, I can see where the lack of experience of this student pilot would come into play. As you stated, the fact he was applying full right aileron as though it would turn the aircraft was quite amusing, if not scary as hell. His instructor apparently did not do a good job of assessing his students ability before solo. Thanks for sharing this video and your feedback. Fly safe and fly often!
I've mentioned slow flight over the runway to my instructors.. they seem to be unanimous in me not doing it due to any sudden xwind! I also got advised to not fast taxi after touchdown due to the aforementioned reason! After watching your channel I've become a huge fan of the Lindbergh reference!
I do a version of that with my students on crosswind days. I have them fly the length of the runway at about 10-15 feet and 80 Kts (power on of course). The goal is to maintain runway centerline. In the air, aileron controls runway drift (aileron into the wind), and rudder is used to keep the nose tracking straight down the runway (I do not let them practice this solo). Then I have them do an actual landing, emphasizing that once you touch down, aileron into the wind to keep the upwind wing down (and minimize drift) and RUDDER to maintain runway alignment. Rudder on the ground! I also limit my initial solo students to a five knot crosswind, then gradually increase that restriction as they gain more experience and proficiency. I know that is conservative, but baby steps. That means sometimes they do not get to go solo, but I always tell them “it is better to be on the ground wishing you are in the air than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.” I read in one comment that the crosswind that day was 15-20 kts. If that was true, letting this guy solo that day was crazy given his level of proficiency. Just my humble opinion.
Notice how he hit full throttle the split second he realized he's off course, not knowing that this would put him in a worse position to correct his course. The whole thing was a catastrophic limbo between trying to correct the course and trying to go around.
Glad he left unharmed! His reaction was definitely late, but he would have made it back to center line if used proper control and avoided jamming in the throttle!
am not a pilot so dont shoot me but shouldn't he just accepted that he messed landing up and was going left off runway and just let it go and come to a stop on the grass?
Short of a bounce landing which i think should be a immediate go around. The moment you establish a ground roll its better to just throttle out and let it coast to a stop the plane is not going to roll forever in the friction of grass and if your not in grass the hey! Its a crappy landing but a landing non the less exit at taxiway
Tailwheel endorsement and staying tailwheel current was money well spent for me in better stick and rudder skills flew with someone recently that 4x the flight time and they side loaded the gear pretty good landing with poor rudder skills. I will say though that as a low time tailwheel pilot I have to earn every landing and there is a pucker factor. The improvement and confidence flying tricycle gear aircraft is noticeable I think
Besides the obvious that he wasn't ready to solo this is a great case for tons of simulator time (supervised by an instructor of course to make sure it's set up correctly). A laptop, $70 in software and a few hundred in a yoke and pedals and you can make these kinds of mistakes for free. :)
With how hard he was pulling back, I'd say it was a good thing his go around failed or else this could have ended far worse. An aluminum hanger door has more give than the ground.....
As a CFI it is clear this guy was not close to being ready. He was behind the aircraft and used controls as if he was in a car ? Correct - rudder use was not utilized. Student actions were as if he had no idea what a rudder was or what it did. Amazed he lived. Good advice.
Good idea for an exercise to learn directional control, use the anti-turn control. Yes, it is rudder. Aileron only sends the nose the wrong way initially. Good idea not even allowing the student to have hands on the yoke in the long runway exercise. Two major enemies of directional control were more obvious back when we all trained in tailwheel airplanes because there was only one nosewheel trainer, the Ercoupe. The two problems still here are using the prop as the nose and not dynamically and proactively moving the rudder on taxi, takeoff, short final, touchdown, roll out. The solution to the first is to put the taxi line, centerline, centerline extended, or any distant target between our legs rather than under the prop. In a DC-3 you would be at a 45 degree angle putting the center of the panel on the centerline. Between the legs works on the ground or in the air. Dynamic proactive rudder movement to bracket the taxi line, centerline, centerline extended, or any distant target keeps the airplane going straight in wings level no wind, gusts on final, rough air in cruise, with the wing banked to counter crosswind, or even in a wings level crab.
Daumn... this dude wasn't ready for soloing. This wasn't even a taildragger Cessna at that. Poor guy. I'm glad he survived and didn't hurt anybody else.
One thing that didn't come up was his initial landing. It was ridiculously flat. Maybe even slightly nose down. This may actually be the culprit behind his loss of directional control. He touched down nosewheel first and "Wheelbarrowed".
A couple of items, I’m guessing his CFI did not properly impress on him the power of the P factor and how it can effect a plane with sudden throttle and little right rudder. That could have been demoed as part of his training. Also, for most early time solo pilots, pulling back on the throttle is not an ingrained response, but trying to save the plane is.
The biggest mistake he made was misjudging that it was way too late for a go around. if you're porpoising at high speed or had a big bounce on landing its one thing to initiate a go around but he was probably only doing 40-45 kts when he put in full throttle. Hes definitely lucky to be alive.
I’ve seen this video so many times and each time I lol - only because I know he lived. BUT seriously I ask myself how did his instructor miss the fact his student was so non- proficient? As soon as he drifts left he jams the throttle and then thinks he’s driving a damn car. Jason has a good point to practice, but even before that a good instructor needs to pick up on the aptitude of the student. I’d like to know if the student quit or came back. He wasn’t ready to solo.
I can’t imagine how that guy must have felt. Practice makes progress, folks. I became good at rudder basics from years of home flight simulator before I did any real flying. I hope he gets back to flying regardless.
Could you tell your sim days helped you through flight training? I'm 28, about to start flight training and I have been flying flight sim x since i was a young teen when it came out, as well as x-plane and some other smaller sims. Due to previous medical and life choices I am just now pursuing my ppl. I'm Very confident and excited. I know I have tons to learn. Just curious if you could really tell the sim made a difference for you? I've flown with friends in 172 rentals and it all felt very familiar.
@@haber1259 I personally had a major issue switching to rudder pedals in the sim from a twist-joystick. If someone has any intention to get behind the controls of an IRL airplane I would strongly suggest to NEVER use a twist-joystick. I had the hardest time breaking that habit and learning rudder pedal instincts. My two cents is you will be much much better off after hundreds of hours in the sim using the rudder pedals. I make a point to practice things in the sim that enforce good rudder habits: Power on stalls, spin recovery, centerline control (the same from left edge to right edge and then back to centerline thing he talks about in the video), cross-wind corrections, etc. The SWS Kodiak for MSFS 2020 will, pardon the turn of phrase, make you it's bitch regarding proper rudder inputs. I highly suggest it
@@haber1259 it definitely helped. I started back with flight sim 2004, and then X, then x plane 10 and 11, now flightsim 2020. My first lesson, I already roughly knew how to fit and control the plane. Of course, rudder pedals in real life are much stiffer than sim ones, but the hand eye coordination will already be there. I got my PPL in September last year. Have fun with yours and keep at it!
@@cameronwick I agree. I always practiced with a cheap saitek yoke, and controls similar to GA aircraft, including Cessna-like throttle, yoke, the Thrustmaster rudder, and Logitech switch panel. I’ve also been flying in VR lately and it’s bad ass.
My instructor always enforced the need to be active on the rudders throughtout the entire landing process. On my solo consolidation returning from the General Practise Area one windy afternoon the craft veered off to the left of the runway, I did a late go around barely inches from trimming the lawn. Scared the living daylights out of me. It was from that point that I really understood the importance of rudder control and centreline descipline on landings. Sometimes it takes such an event to reinforce a lesson or principle.
Learn to taxi a DC-3 in all sorts of wind and you will never have a problem with directional control again. In 1965 I put my brand new A&P license to work at an airline that still operated DC-3s. Years later I got around to taking flight instruction, but soon found that I was the worst pilot candidate ever and gave it up. But I could taxi a DC-3 straight down a taxiway in a crosswind without dragging the brakes.
Part of the issue is the concept of the go around being way out of most landing issues. The real question here is when to abandon the go? I'd say when you're about to depart the runway but not the ground. Cutting power just before leaving the runway would have merely resulted in needing new tires ... and boxers.
Did the sound of the touchdown not sound odd? Tons of rumbling sound almost like he was already starting to skid. My first thought is he was riding the brakes as he touched down which helped lose control, could this be part of the issue? Also gives me a ton of confidence in the crash safety ratings of Cessna, lol. Thankfully no one got hurt, that's ultimately the most important thing at the end of the day (aside from not going solo when you're not prepared).
It’s easy to panic when you do drift like that. If you’re a student, don’t over correct and pull like a car. Do enough to stop the drift and then correct, it’s more of a flow then a fight
I can relate a little. I made a similar mistake on my first solo when the Cessna 150 drifted left on the take off roll. My instinct was to turn the wheel to the right like a car. Then, I realized my mistake, throttled back to abort the take off and used rudder pedals to put the aircraft back on the center line. I notified the tower and taxied back to the departure end of the runway. My instructor was watching in horror, I imagine, but I gave him a thumbs up. Never made that mistake again.
The Lindbergh reference sounds crazy to me with 40 years flying experience. I would no sooner look out the corner of my windscreen in a plane than I would a car. You need to watch where you are going. That's down the centreline. Keep it simple. That's why runways and taxiways have centrelines. Keep it just left of centre so the nose wheel misses lighting. You can only do that focusing straight ahead.
Hey! May I ask what types you have flown? I have experiences with C172s and taildragger aircraft. The C172 has a panel that is so high, that you can not look down the runway during your flare before touchdown. With many taildraggers that is the same. There and only there I look slightly left to get a ground reference. This is what The Finer Points calls the Lindbergh Reference. I find it very helpful and have used it way before I discovered it on this channel.
@@Juhujalp I have flown most Cessna's, singles and twins, Beechcraft singles and twins, Grumman's and then bigger things. I am 6'2" tall so maybe that helps. I have never not been able to see down the centreline. I find it scary to think anyone could not. If you are short get a cushion, lol. To look sideways while landing seems absurd to me.
@@petersmith8134 I am not particularly short. In a Cessna I can get that some taller folks could look over the panel, but with many taildraggers you will not be able to. And just to clarify I am only talking about the flare. But I can totally get that someone could go about their entire aviation career without ever having to use the Lindbergh Reference. Maybe get a checkout in a taildragger with bad front visibility, if you are interested in experiencing it. (A Stearman should do it)
@@Juhujalp I flew a Maule and a 185 back in the late 70's and early 80's in New Zealand but it was so long ago I forget how I got them on the ground. Pure luck maybe. I certainly had to look sideways but never with a tricycle undercarriage. Could you imaging landing a 172 with a 15 knot x-wind using the Lindbergh? Frightening!!!
@@petersmith8134 With the crosswind you are slipping in the flare anyways so you can easily see the ground ahead looking slightly towards the crosswind direction. It has never bothered me.
Which ForeFlight subscription do you have Jason? I just have the basic one, but I get quite nervous about having an engine failure at night over non lit areas, or having faulty instruments in IMC and sometimes I wonder if I should upgrade so I can get an extra attitude indicator in the cockpit and the 3d terrain mapping feature, so I wonder which subscription you use? Great videos, you’re the man!
I think the biggest takeaway in this situation is learn, learn, learn. Casting aspersions on this dude doesn’t help anyone. Often, low time pilots don’t yet have the neurological connections necessary to reflexively respond correctly when something goes drastically wrong so quickly. Study what he did wrong and apply it to your own adventures…he sure as hell knows what happened. Luckily everyone is still around. That’s not always the case when something like this happens.
a proper landing would have had the throttle at idle before the wheels touch down, unless making some minor adjustments, but once on teh ground, the power should be at idle. so he should have been at idle before the skid.
I know you are a big proponent of the Limburg reference and it is certainly a very valuable tool, but I feel like in this exact example he most likely could see the runway. There are just so many mistakes it's clear he shouldn't have been soloing yet.
Ouch… :( I wonder what I would do in this situation… Too late for go around. I would try and shut down the engine while trying to directionally control the aircraft. It’s tricky on such high speeds to control with the rudder..
He just didn't have enough coordination on a plane. He seemed unaware that rudders exist, he chose to go around when the plane was already settling on the ground, rushed to full power while turning on the ground with a huge push on the rudder... None of it makes sense! He had too little experience and got overwhelmed in a basic situation
He tried to "drive" that airplane using the instincts he had learned from driving a car. To turn a car, you turn the steering wheel. Cars don't have rudders, so he hadn't developed the necessary instinct to steer with his feet instead of the "steering wheel".
HaHa "how to solve the problems that caused this pilot to crash." You are very sweet and diplomatic. Clearly the primary problem is that the CFI who certified this guy for solo was incompetent.
Jason, thank you for your videos, they are great, a constructive feedback if I may - 30 seconds of every video, especially a short one, for an intro that carries no information - is wasteful at best, please help your viewers save time, 1-2 second intros are the best
Why go around over a steering error when you've already touch down in a controlled manner? Steer it back to centre, don't go full power. His split-second reactions really failed him here. I read up on it, he was doing touch and go's and had done 7 consecutive without issue. Just shows it can happen anytime, anywhere so if I sound like I'm coming down hard on the guy, I'm not. There were also ditches on either side of the runway that are definitely deep enough to catch a Cessna 172. But because he had in full power and the yoke pulled all the way up to his collarbone, he was JUST airborne enough to glide over them. I had a similar freakout and reacted totally the wrong way practicing power-on stalls. Luckily for me I was 4000' AGL at the time so no worries.
I do not use this Lindbergh reference and I don't see the need. Well, I am 1.90m at height, therefore I always be able to look in front of the aircraft (even with my C182).
His wheels were on the ground, his flying speed gone... not sure why he thought a go around was in order. That works still in the air, bounce, etc. In this instance... throttle back and don't give up control, keep those feet moving and steer with feet. And no need to jar one way or the other those rudders. Smooth controls. This was at first looking just fine with some drift to the left. A smooth while quick move of the rudder input back to the center line and pulling power all the way out, would have just corrected the veering to the left. I'm not even sure I would bother using break differential going that fast, probably what flinged him to the right? Not sure. Ouch. And that attempt take off? Really? Poor guy. At least he's okay... and we have a video to learn from his nightmare and help us from it ever becoming our own.
The initial loss of control. The correction. The throttle. The pulling back hard. The use of aileron to turn. The idea you should “go around” whilst off the runway. So so many bad instincts.
how he got signed off to go solo baffles me. he clearly had no grasp of how an airplane actually works/flys.
Indeed, a lot of bad instincts, or one might say no instincts. I would not want to be his instructor.
@@thomasgreen7517 with the bill he has to pay for that accident - I doubt he'll be flying anytime soon.
This guy was using the yoke like a steering wheel. Is that because he was poorly trained or because when he suddenly found himself in a bad situation his brain turned off and his instincts learned from years of driving cars took over?
When presented with a life and death situation some people panic and no amount of training will overcome their fear where others remain calm and use their knowledge to work the problem.
A simulated engine out is just that a simulation. With a CFI sitting in the seat beside you its not a life and death situation, you know the CFI will take over if you mess up.
No CFI can be 100% sure their student will follow their training in a real life and death situation because putting their student in a real life and death situation would be irresponsible.
Just look to the pilots who have thousands of hours and stall their airplane when they have an engine out. Is it because they never learned that airspeed is important in those thousands of hours or because they panicked and found themselves incapable of utilizing their training and knowledge?
@@ulbuilder All fair criticisms and questions.
Many high time pilots do not practice stalls, and even less so turning stalls. Few pilots practice turning stalls, which is how most stall/spin accidents tend to happen.
On one of my own very first flight lessons (2nd or 3rd flight), as I was leaving the parking lot in my car, I tried to steer with the pedals and stepped on the gas hard. I pulled off the edge of the road and took a moment to remind myself I was in a car and what the controls did. After that I never had a problem keeping them separate. Not sure what others experienced, if anything.
But this student failed to use the rudder properly on landing to begin with, then proceeded to stomp on the rudder like the Hulk, and jammed the throttle full forward in a clear attempt to fly again rather than understand that the plane would stop sliding and rolling eventually, same as Any car. To me that alone was already unacceptable behavior, and would result in me doing some serious retraining of the student. But then he followed that up with careening out of control across teh entire airport while yanking back hard on teh yoke desperate to make it fly again as if he could just will it to happen. This more so to me speaks to the absolute lack of understanding. He clearly has not been paying attention one bit in any of his lessons about how long it takes to accelerate under good conditions. Yanking the yoke full aft? Who taught him to do that? I can understand the panicked instinctive response at this point to just crank the yoke to the right. But every decision he made was wrong, and some were egregious in my opinion even considering instinctive car knowledge. He was on the ground, he should not have applied power. Clearly wasn't taught good decision making nor understood the purpose of a go around, making him unfit to solo.
Instructors need to take care to test their students in xwinds, and less than perfect conditions and situations to ensure their students are reacting properly, and demonstrating an understanding of how to handle the plane should something go wrong. It's been my experience that something unexpected or unanticipated will ALWAYS occur on a person's first solo (if only just an unusual traffic situation in the pattern). They need to be able to adapt, not merely fly the plane. They don't need to be perfect, but they have to be able to handle teh situation and fall back on the fundamentals (roll, pitch, yaw, and throttle, keep your airspeed, and don't rush or force things, take a moment to circle or just fly the pattern if necessary while thinking through it, willing to abort a bad landing early).
A common situation for many is ballooning or rounding out too high or too aggressively, never having flown the plane so light before, and being surprised by that. Perhaps a few lessons flown light on fuel prior to solo, followed by flying the solo with a little extra fuel (to account for the CFI) to make the first flight a little less surprising in that regard.
No matter what, I question this student's readiness to fly that day, and of the CFI's ability to teach and or judge the students' readiness.
When he hit full throttle, at that moment I could see this wasn't going to end well. I'm also a student pilot, who bought an airplane before getting my pilots license. So these evaluations help me with striving to be calm and work towards being a safe and proficient pilot. Cheers from Winnipeg.
Yep he should have been going to idle at that point.
I bought my plane before I passed best thing you can do the best thing you can do fly that plane all the time when V F R keep you on the ground when weather is bad hey I can go up tomorrow don't have to fly everyday
I've been wanting to do this when I finally decide to start training.
Winnipeg???? Saskatoon!!
@@doubleitpgot mine in Wetaskiwin lol
Kudos to the CFI that turned that young man loose in an airplane by himself. I think we can all agree he was not ready to solo
61.87 Nooooovember
What do you mean the CFI turned the young man loose in an airplane all by himself? It seems like the CFI was right there in the airplane with him.
@@MyNathanking the video I watched did not show anyone in the right seat. Did you see it differently?
@@easttexan2933 I can’t decide if he was being sarcastic or just trolling.
@@easttexan2933 I admit that I am confused about this video. At the very beginning of the video, when the plane crashes into the hanger, I thought that that was the flight instructor yelling as the student crashed into the hanger.
Growing up in Mexico, we had these little four-wheeled slider carts that we would control with our feet. On my first flight lesson, it was natural for me to control the plane on the ground with the pedals. It was weird how much muscle memory I had some twenty years later. Thanks for posting this and the tips on how to avoid it.
Avalanchas se llamaban ?
I was JUST talking about this (original) video with my instructor. We had a scary encounter the other day. I’m a 50 hr pilot and nearing Checkride, for reference. When my 172’s nose touched down a few seconds later the dreaded Cessna shimmy started. No big deal, I’ll just apply strong back pressure and break the oscillation. Except it didn’t stop. The nose wheel just shimmied harder and harder and then the plane suddenly started pulling to the left towards the edge of a wide runway. I can’t say exactly what we did or didn’t do except that we both tried corrective rudder input and it didn’t work. We were able to get it under control before leaving the runway but it was close.
The funny part is my instructor asked me why I didn’t apply throttle and go around (like why was my instinct to not do a worse thing like take off.) I told her THIS video had haunted me so much when I first saw it that my instinct forever will be to shut it off and ride it out into the grass. I heard someone say “Never take your problems into the air with you”. Better to do some off-roading and beat up your plane a bit rather than do a landing with a broken nose wheel or something.
It really depends on the situation. Did you bounce the nose wheel hard to cause the shimmy
@@gringoloco8576 No, smooth as butter landing. It was just getting really loose in the linkage. At that point anything can start the oscillation. They rebuilt the nose assembly afterwards.
Hmm, wondering if there might be a cracked bracket that holds the oleo strut in place that’s causing the shimmering. I’ve experienced the same. Good on ya for keeping it on the ground. Your CFI might’ve been trying to see if you articulated your reasoning for staying on the ground instead of criticizing your decision. Anyway, keep up the flying!
Going around would have been a poor decision. Lowering the impact energy is the best plan. Your aircraft kept shimmering because the aircraft had a nosewheel linkage fault. It takes very little to get a front wheel to start oscillating and a loose linkage causing the nosewheel to flop sideways back and forth a few times will easily start it under conditions that are encountered when landing.
Good call - had something similar when I was a solo student taking off on a hot day many summers ago. At rotate it was clear I was struggling to get airborne and climb away on this very hot day, so rather than carry on and risk disaster I put her back down and braked safely to a stop before the end of the runway. A valuable lesson learned, don’t panic but evaluate and commit to your best option.
Jason, when I was a student pilot many moons ago, one thing that frustrated me more than anything was the instructor likes of “use the the rudder”, “balance with rudder” etc. As a raw student, I had no idea what the instructor was babbling on about. Instructional “patter” needs to be very clear and understandable to the student. All too often, students won’t ask for clarification for terms they don’t understand. Your videos are a breath of fresh air in the clarity. Wish I had learnt with you… appreciate your time and effort putting these together,
Student pilot here with about 8 hours in the 172. These are great lessons learned and I will make sure to practice the skills that you talked about here. Great video!
Well this is horrifying to watch on so many levels. As student pilot myself, who has actually witnessed another student at my school crash on a touch and go after losing directional control, this is my worst nightmare. I feel like I would have yanked the power all the way out and applied the brakes, but I'm still very new as well. This could EASILY be me. This is why I love this channel. I learn things that perhaps my CFI hasn't covered yet, or expands on the knowledge that she has already passed on.
That would have been a much better instinct. If you're going off the runway and you don't think you can save it with the rudder, go power idle and brake. Slower speed is much better than more speed.
Another GREAT video and reminder of the basics for all light GA pilots, student or long-time!
I’m sorry, but some things are really just COMMON SENSE!! Does not excuse, being a “new” or student pilot. As you correctly said, basic common sense in this case would have been to pull the power out and STOP.
You don’t attempt a go around in the insane situation he was in!! Stopping in the grass, or in the worst case, even a “mild” rollover is not the end of the world. The choice to go around could have resulted in a far worse outcome, including a fatal one!
You can’t possibly TEACH everything in aviation. There are an infinite number of variables and the resulting situations that may arise! That is why you are “pilot-in-command” when you get your wings, and are expected to make a “reasoned” and “thoughtful” decision for the safety of the flight!
@@747-pilot Common sense doesn't mean anything when you're thrown into a new situation that you've never experience before.
Rigorous and recurrent training is the only solution.
@@747-pilot Very easy for you to be typing this especially in hindsight of the video. I think you've misunderstood what they were trying to say. They're basically saying that it seems obvious what the correct actions are when looking at other people's mistakes but whenever we are put in those situations no one knows what could happen. In this case, it would be pretty unlikely that a proficient pilot makes so many mistakes that the guy in the video did, but it still doesn't mean we know everything or that we aren't going to make mistakes.
Wow, totally amazing footage. Glad he is OK after that little mishap. Could have been much worse for sure. Appreciate letting us learn from the undoubtedly terrifying experience. R.I.P. little Cessna.
I’ve started playing a flight sim in the past few days, and the effect of rudders vs yoke to control direction on the ground became obvious pretty quick. Even though I’m just playing a game, I look forward to watching more of your tips.
Private pilot here, it is even more obvious in a real aircraft, you kinda feel it and you just do it by muscle memory. This student pilot had bad habits that became his muscle memory, he probably doesn’t understand the controls that well or uses with ailerons when taxying and his instructor never noticed or something like that
I haven't instructed in several years. One thing I never liked was the option of soloing someone with 10 hours. I remember my first solo at 10 hours, instructor stepped out and I was all confidence. Turning downwind to base a shot of anxiety took over that lasted a few seconds but quickly realized that was no help.
When I was taking my CFI check ride the examiner asked when it was acceptable to sign off a student for solo. I gave him several acceptable answers but he wanted to hear that the student exhibited consistency in the task, or any other task. One student I had, an older gentleman would land 4 out of 5 well, he always seemed to screw one up where I would take over. Eventually I suggested someone else might be able to help him. Next instructor would not sign him off either for solo.
I have passed every check rides on the mark as far as logged time goes. I only felt the solo was allowed too early. I didn't solo students until they had at least 15 hours and possibly more. It is a bit more expensive but why risk an incident and why stress someone out. Keep the training enjoyable and lessen the stress.
I enjoy your channel.
As someone who has being in a very similar situtaion, I feel for the guy.
As a low hours pilot I wrapped a wing tip of an LSA into a runway sign at about 40kts after a loss of control incident doing touch and goes on a windy Saturday morning 3 years ago.
Trust me, sh*t happens quicky and in slow motion all at the same time. Hopefully your training kicks but you still can only do the best you can.
As one guy said to me, as a low hrs pilot everyone carries one a bucket marked "experience" and another marked "luck", you just hope one fills up before the other runs out.
Absolutely
Airplanes move in slow motion, especially in landing. If something happened quick it's because the pilot was slow.
What I also hate seeing -- though I know it's a natural reflex -- is the hard pull back on the yoke. If someone makes this reflexive pull in the air, it's likely to cause a stall that could be recovered from with proper control inputs, but someone who reflexively pulls into a stall might not think to reverse the input to get out of the stall.
The irony is that the pull saved his life. Had he not done that - the aircraft would have become airborn and crashed into the roof of that hangar, lights out.
A lot of students have it drilled into them that the go-around is a "get out of jail free" card whenever they get in trouble. This student pushed the throttle all the way in when he realized he was veering off. He never did pull the throttle. The go-around is indicated during unstable approaches. But when the wheels are on the ground the pilot must quickly evaluate a trouble situation and choose the best option, which in this case was to idle the engine and apply the brakes.
What a cool idea with high speed taxi on long runways! Maybe put on the hood too if the plane's nose is not high enough (as long as there's an instructor running this)
I was not allowed to do “touch and go” as a solo student pilot. The same should’ve been the case with this student pilot. Hard lessons for both the student and the CFI.
Jason, I'm so glad you posted this video. At my flight school we have cockpit video + audio of a student solo from a few years back where something similar occurred, but without the massive crash. This student was on final for her first touch-and-go and failed to recognize a developing light crosswind scenario. This was in a Cessna 162 Skycatcher, an LSA. She touched down approx 20-30 feet left of centerline (on a 150-foot wide runway) and applies full power to begin her second round in the pattern (expectation bias... I am GOING to do three touch and go's). As she is reaching over to retract the electric flaps, she realizes that she has just lifted a wing and is heading towards the grass. Unbeknownst to her, the right crosswind combined with the left-turning tendencies caused her right wing to lift and the aircraft to veer to the left. She then SLAMS the stoke to the right and aft, which caused the aircraft to veer back to the centerline. Given her airspeed at the time, she then departs on the upwind with her CFI watching, scared shitless on the ground. The most significant cause of this incident was expectation bias and the lack of ingrained knowledge of directional control (i.e. use of the rudders). Luckily no one was hurt and the student went on to be a great Private Pilot.
Sorry I'm not a pilot: what is a "stoke"? (first time I see that word as a part of an airplane)
@@marcelob.5300 Guess it's a typo and "yoke" was meant instead.
@@marccreal thanks. I thought something alike but as the rest of the long comment is all free of typos I suspected of my knowledge!
@@marcelob.5300 It was NOT a typo. This is unique control on the Cessna 162 that is a combination between a yoke and a stick, like you might see in a Diamond or Cub. Google "Cessna 162 Stoke" on Images.
@@joelleerickson2642 thanks! Never expected youtube comments to be educational, but I learned something today.
That’s awesome that you do that with your students. I didn’t know requesting high speed taxi was a thing.
Poor guy, so glad he survived. Can’t help but mention that this is borderline hilarious that his instinct was to go full throttle. 😬
😂
This guy’s my hero ! Coming soon to an Air Pakistan cockpit near you ! What a gem !
I think it would be very important to mention the full aft elevator. Had he got speed to lift off, the stall spin could have very well killed him. Great videos. Gets us thinking critically!
Can you imagine what would have happened had he achieved rotation speed and lifted off with that much aileron? We have all unconsciously used that little steering wheel when the wind pushed us off to the side a little bit and realized that was the wrong move.
Saw the end results of a student that had not flown for over 90 days and while taxiing he was looking down doing something and drifted left off taxiway , down a ditch and right into an 8 foot chain link fence. CFI caught a bit of grief from flight school allowing this student to go up without a review.
only a bit? I'm a student rn and I could never imagine my instructor allowing me to do this after a 90-day break!
Great video! This really breaks down the practical lesson between the official lessons
The real question is how the student ended up alone in the cockpit, as he (probably) needed a fair bit more practice and review before being sent flying solo.
Haven't done much high speed taxi, but that sounds like a solid move. I am a student pilot coming up on first solo. Last week I had my first lesson on the importance of hitting centerline.
Perfectly smooth landing, straight on center line. Mains touched, nose touched, rolled about 50 feet and left main blew, plane immediately slid HARD left, CFI and I both input full right rudder and brake. Managed to keep her on the runway by about 3 feet. Unique experience, but definitely drives home the importance of centerline. The guys came out, huddled under the wing, lifted it up, tire off and replaced and we were back in the air in 15 minutes. Hit that centerline and stay on it. Cheers all
Very good thing to know, glad it turned out alright. I’m about to solo cross country for the first time in not very long, and always had the wonder of how I’d have to react if a tire blew. How much right rudder and brakes did you roughy have to use. Trying to get a mental picture just in case it ever happens to me.
@@susieq8684 full rudder to the floor and just barely kept on runway. If it has blown right on landing definitely would have been in the grass
The first ,and BEST , thing I learned 40 years ago was on a bad approach to go around !
In fairness, he's kinda lucky that hangar was there, because if he'd had a little more room to get that plane airborne again through that stall, the way he was yanking on the yoke...well, we very likely wouldn't be sitting here talking about how he survived it anymore.
The proper way to handle a situation like this is simple.
Right before you hit the hanger, let out a little yelp. He nailed that.
Then you pee yourself, but just a little.
You don’t want to embarrass yourself.
I did a little reading elsewhere and the guy had minor injuries - that dude was lucky.
According to the video, I remember on that day it was strong wind and crosswind gusting around 18-25 kts. My solo flight was cancelled and my school was not allow any flight to fly. My flight school is not far from this airport. Just wonder why he was allowed to fly under that condition? 🤔 By the way, thank you for your tip. I got a lot from you and passed my flight test last year. 🥳
My reaction to that is... "holy crap"! All he had to do was pull the throttle to idle and apply the brakes while gently applying enough right rudder to regain directional control. The minute you said he applied full power, my heart sank. He had plenty of runway to stop. However, I can see where the lack of experience of this student pilot would come into play. As you stated, the fact he was applying full right aileron as though it would turn the aircraft was quite amusing, if not scary as hell. His instructor apparently did not do a good job of assessing his students ability before solo. Thanks for sharing this video and your feedback.
Fly safe and fly often!
It is a good thing he didn't have the airspeed to takeoff and stall into the hanger, based on how hard he was pulling on the controls !!
I've mentioned slow flight over the runway to my instructors.. they seem to be unanimous in me not doing it due to any sudden xwind! I also got advised to not fast taxi after touchdown due to the aforementioned reason! After watching your channel I've become a huge fan of the Lindbergh reference!
I do a version of that with my students on crosswind days.
I have them fly the length of the runway at about 10-15 feet and 80 Kts (power on of course). The goal is to maintain runway centerline.
In the air, aileron controls runway drift (aileron into the wind), and rudder is used to keep the nose tracking straight down the runway (I do not let them practice this solo).
Then I have them do an actual landing, emphasizing that once you touch down, aileron into the wind to keep the upwind wing down (and minimize drift) and RUDDER to maintain runway alignment.
Rudder on the ground!
I also limit my initial solo students to a five knot crosswind, then gradually increase that restriction as they gain more experience and proficiency.
I know that is conservative, but baby steps.
That means sometimes they do not get to go solo, but I always tell them “it is better to be on the ground wishing you are in the air than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.”
I read in one comment that the crosswind that day was 15-20 kts. If that was true, letting this guy solo that day was crazy given his level of proficiency.
Just my humble opinion.
Notice how he hit full throttle the split second he realized he's off course, not knowing that this would put him in a worse position to correct his course. The whole thing was a catastrophic limbo between trying to correct the course and trying to go around.
Glad he left unharmed! His reaction was definitely late, but he would have made it back to center line if used proper control and avoided jamming in the throttle!
the term was he "survived" we don't know what his condition is going forward...
am not a pilot so dont shoot me but shouldn't he just accepted that he messed landing up and was going left off runway and just let it go and come to a stop on the grass?
If you think about it, the full right aileron is actually a great idea! He was going for the ol' wing strike 180!
I think he turned the yoke cause he was hoping he would get airborne in time to be able to turn out of the way.
Great info! Thanks for sharing, crazy crash with footage to boot!
Short of a bounce landing which i think should be a immediate go around.
The moment you establish a ground roll its better to just throttle out and let it coast to a stop the plane is not going to roll forever in the friction of grass and if your not in grass the hey! Its a crappy landing but a landing non the less exit at taxiway
My first solo was in the plane behind you in CA. 5218F.
Tailwheel endorsement and staying tailwheel current was money well spent for me in better stick and rudder skills flew with someone recently that 4x the flight time and they side loaded the gear pretty good landing with poor rudder skills. I will say though that as a low time tailwheel pilot I have to earn every landing and there is a pucker factor. The improvement and confidence flying tricycle gear aircraft is noticeable I think
“Super large aileron input”🤣- no shit, I was cool up to that announcement!😂
That flight school had a second student crash 6 days later. I want to know what happened to that school!!!!
That flight school running out of planes.
Besides the obvious that he wasn't ready to solo this is a great case for tons of simulator time (supervised by an instructor of course to make sure it's set up correctly). A laptop, $70 in software and a few hundred in a yoke and pedals and you can make these kinds of mistakes for free. :)
With how hard he was pulling back, I'd say it was a good thing his go around failed or else this could have ended far worse. An aluminum hanger door has more give than the ground.....
As a CFI it is clear this guy was not close to being ready. He was behind the aircraft and used controls as if he was in a car ?
Correct - rudder use was not utilized. Student actions were as if he had no idea what a rudder was or what it did.
Amazed he lived.
Good advice.
This is a perfect example that flying is not for everyone.
Good idea for an exercise to learn directional control, use the anti-turn control. Yes, it is rudder. Aileron only sends the nose the wrong way initially. Good idea not even allowing the student to have hands on the yoke in the long runway exercise.
Two major enemies of directional control were more obvious back when we all trained in tailwheel airplanes because there was only one nosewheel trainer, the Ercoupe. The two problems still here are using the prop as the nose and not dynamically and proactively moving the rudder on taxi, takeoff, short final, touchdown, roll out. The solution to the first is to put the taxi line, centerline, centerline extended, or any distant target between our legs rather than under the prop. In a DC-3 you would be at a 45 degree angle putting the center of the panel on the centerline. Between the legs works on the ground or in the air. Dynamic proactive rudder movement to bracket the taxi line, centerline, centerline extended, or any distant target keeps the airplane going straight in wings level no wind, gusts on final, rough air in cruise, with the wing banked to counter crosswind, or even in a wings level crab.
Daumn... this dude wasn't ready for soloing. This wasn't even a taildragger Cessna at that. Poor guy. I'm glad he survived and didn't hurt anybody else.
One thing that didn't come up was his initial landing. It was ridiculously flat. Maybe even slightly nose down. This may actually be the culprit behind his loss of directional control. He touched down nosewheel first and "Wheelbarrowed".
A couple of items, I’m guessing his CFI did not properly impress on him the power of the P factor and how it can effect a plane with sudden throttle and little right rudder. That could have been demoed as part of his training. Also, for most early time solo pilots, pulling back on the throttle is not an ingrained response, but trying to save the plane is.
The obvious choice is to decelerate. A little surprised he tried to fly out of that mistake
Nice, practical, simple, useful advice as usual, thanks. Cheers.
The biggest mistake he made was misjudging that it was way too late for a go around. if you're porpoising at high speed or had a big bounce on landing its one thing to initiate a go around but he was probably only doing 40-45 kts when he put in full throttle. Hes definitely lucky to be alive.
Yes I'm broadside to the runway I know bolt the power that will work !
*student railing into hangar* ➡️ *joyful intro music plays*
Great lesson, Jason.
I’ve seen this video so many times and each time I lol - only because I know he lived.
BUT seriously I ask myself how did his instructor miss the fact his student was so non- proficient? As soon as he drifts left he jams the throttle and then thinks he’s driving a damn car.
Jason has a good point to practice, but even before that a good instructor needs to pick up on the aptitude of the student. I’d like to know if the student quit or came back. He wasn’t ready to solo.
This is a classic case of brain lock by sensory overload.
I’m a student pilot. I will never understand the urge to add full power after rolling off the runway the way he did.
Not only that by he's going 90 degrees to the runway.
I can’t imagine how that guy must have felt. Practice makes progress, folks. I became good at rudder basics from years of home flight simulator before I did any real flying. I hope he gets back to flying regardless.
Could you tell your sim days helped you through flight training? I'm 28, about to start flight training and I have been flying flight sim x since i was a young teen when it came out, as well as x-plane and some other smaller sims. Due to previous medical and life choices I am just now pursuing my ppl. I'm Very confident and excited. I know I have tons to learn. Just curious if you could really tell the sim made a difference for you? I've flown with friends in 172 rentals and it all felt very familiar.
@@haber1259 I personally had a major issue switching to rudder pedals in the sim from a twist-joystick.
If someone has any intention to get behind the controls of an IRL airplane I would strongly suggest to NEVER use a twist-joystick. I had the hardest time breaking that habit and learning rudder pedal instincts. My two cents is you will be much much better off after hundreds of hours in the sim using the rudder pedals.
I make a point to practice things in the sim that enforce good rudder habits: Power on stalls, spin recovery, centerline control (the same from left edge to right edge and then back to centerline thing he talks about in the video), cross-wind corrections, etc.
The SWS Kodiak for MSFS 2020 will, pardon the turn of phrase, make you it's bitch regarding proper rudder inputs. I highly suggest it
@@haber1259 it definitely helped. I started back with flight sim 2004, and then X, then x plane 10 and 11, now flightsim 2020. My first lesson, I already roughly knew how to fit and control the plane. Of course, rudder pedals in real life are much stiffer than sim ones, but the hand eye coordination will already be there. I got my PPL in September last year. Have fun with yours and keep at it!
@@cameronwick I agree. I always practiced with a cheap saitek yoke, and controls similar to GA aircraft, including Cessna-like throttle, yoke, the Thrustmaster rudder, and Logitech switch panel. I’ve also been flying in VR lately and it’s bad ass.
My instructor always enforced the need to be active on the rudders throughtout the entire landing process. On my solo consolidation returning from the General Practise Area one windy afternoon the craft veered off to the left of the runway, I did a late go around barely inches from trimming the lawn. Scared the living daylights out of me. It was from that point that I really understood the importance of rudder control and centreline descipline on landings. Sometimes it takes such an event to reinforce a lesson or principle.
Learn to taxi a DC-3 in all sorts of wind and you will never have a problem with directional control again. In 1965 I put my brand new A&P license to work at an airline that still operated DC-3s. Years later I got around to taking flight instruction, but soon found that I was the worst pilot candidate ever and gave it up. But I could taxi a DC-3 straight down a taxiway in a crosswind without dragging the brakes.
Amazing thought process: depart the runway...add full power.
Part of the issue is the concept of the go around being way out of most landing issues. The real question here is when to abandon the go? I'd say when you're about to depart the runway but not the ground.
Cutting power just before leaving the runway would have merely resulted in needing new tires ... and boxers.
Did the sound of the touchdown not sound odd? Tons of rumbling sound almost like he was already starting to skid. My first thought is he was riding the brakes as he touched down which helped lose control, could this be part of the issue?
Also gives me a ton of confidence in the crash safety ratings of Cessna, lol. Thankfully no one got hurt, that's ultimately the most important thing at the end of the day (aside from not going solo when you're not prepared).
It’s easy to panic when you do drift like that. If you’re a student, don’t over correct and pull like a car. Do enough to stop the drift and then correct, it’s more of a flow then a fight
I can relate a little. I made a similar mistake on my first solo when the Cessna 150 drifted left on the take off roll. My instinct was to turn the wheel to the right like a car. Then, I realized my mistake, throttled back to abort the take off and used rudder pedals to put the aircraft back on the center line. I notified the tower and taxied back to the departure end of the runway. My instructor was watching in horror, I imagine, but I gave him a thumbs up. Never made that mistake again.
The Lindbergh reference sounds crazy to me with 40 years flying experience. I would no sooner look out the corner of my windscreen in a plane than I would a car. You need to watch where you are going. That's down the centreline. Keep it simple. That's why runways and taxiways have centrelines. Keep it just left of centre so the nose wheel misses lighting. You can only do that focusing straight ahead.
Hey! May I ask what types you have flown? I have experiences with C172s and taildragger aircraft. The C172 has a panel that is so high, that you can not look down the runway during your flare before touchdown. With many taildraggers that is the same. There and only there I look slightly left to get a ground reference. This is what The Finer Points calls the Lindbergh Reference. I find it very helpful and have used it way before I discovered it on this channel.
@@Juhujalp I have flown most Cessna's, singles and twins, Beechcraft singles and twins, Grumman's and then bigger things. I am 6'2" tall so maybe that helps. I have never not been able to see down the centreline. I find it scary to think anyone could not. If you are short get a cushion, lol. To look sideways while landing seems absurd to me.
@@petersmith8134 I am not particularly short. In a Cessna I can get that some taller folks could look over the panel, but with many taildraggers you will not be able to. And just to clarify I am only talking about the flare.
But I can totally get that someone could go about their entire aviation career without ever having to use the Lindbergh Reference. Maybe get a checkout in a taildragger with bad front visibility, if you are interested in experiencing it. (A Stearman should do it)
@@Juhujalp I flew a Maule and a 185 back in the late 70's and early 80's in New Zealand but it was so long ago I forget how I got them on the ground. Pure luck maybe. I certainly had to look sideways but never with a tricycle undercarriage. Could you imaging landing a 172 with a 15 knot x-wind using the Lindbergh? Frightening!!!
@@petersmith8134 With the crosswind you are slipping in the flare anyways so you can easily see the ground ahead looking slightly towards the crosswind direction. It has never bothered me.
High speed taxi is the text book term, but I the private pilot like to call it, wheelie.
Which ForeFlight subscription do you have Jason? I just have the basic one, but I get quite nervous about having an engine failure at night over non lit areas, or having faulty instruments in IMC and sometimes I wonder if I should upgrade so I can get an extra attitude indicator in the cockpit and the 3d terrain mapping feature, so I wonder which subscription you use? Great videos, you’re the man!
I think the biggest takeaway in this situation is learn, learn, learn. Casting aspersions on this dude doesn’t help anyone. Often, low time pilots don’t yet have the neurological connections necessary to reflexively respond correctly when something goes drastically wrong so quickly. Study what he did wrong and apply it to your own adventures…he sure as hell knows what happened. Luckily everyone is still around. That’s not always the case when something like this happens.
That is why I think minimum time for solo should be 20 hours to allow for more circuit practice. No solo student should be this uncoordinated.
Problem is a sign off for an unprepared student.
agreed, he had no business soloing
Love all your videos... thank u.
Disagree. Cut power the moment you are skidding on the runway. Don't wait to depart the runway.
a proper landing would have had the throttle at idle before the wheels touch down, unless making some minor adjustments, but once on teh ground, the power should be at idle. so he should have been at idle before the skid.
Part of the reason for higher GA insurance premiums could be the video title.
I can’t believe he went full throttle after he pushed full right rudder and was heading toward the hanger. His brain switched off.
I know you are a big proponent of the Limburg reference and it is certainly a very valuable tool, but I feel like in this exact example he most likely could see the runway. There are just so many mistakes it's clear he shouldn't have been soloing yet.
Ouch… :( I wonder what I would do in this situation… Too late for go around. I would try and shut down the engine while trying to directionally control the aircraft. It’s tricky on such high speeds to control with the rudder..
Appreciate your video - thank you
Once on the ground and loose directional control, kill the power!
He just didn't have enough coordination on a plane. He seemed unaware that rudders exist, he chose to go around when the plane was already settling on the ground, rushed to full power while turning on the ground with a huge push on the rudder... None of it makes sense! He had too little experience and got overwhelmed in a basic situation
Good stuff. Never heard of Lindbergh Reference before. Anyone know if the student continued training?
Why did he go full throttle trying to stop? All he had to do was pull the throttle back and hold the brakes.
It looked like he was trying to turn the steering wheel of a car!
GREAT VIDEO LOVE IT!!
His CFI has some in those attitudes, 2-5, page 46. PHAK
To take off is optional, to land is mandatory. He'd already lost control on the ground, what made him think taking off was the way to go?
He tried to "drive" that airplane using the instincts he had learned from driving a car. To turn a car, you turn the steering wheel. Cars don't have rudders, so he hadn't developed the necessary instinct to steer with his feet instead of the "steering wheel".
mayday little rock episode crash had an airline pilot landing in strong xwind correcting drift with ailerons!! :(
HaHa "how to solve the problems that caused this pilot to crash." You are very sweet and diplomatic. Clearly the primary problem is that the CFI who certified this guy for solo was incompetent.
always look ahead, you will c drift but don't take your eyes off the end of the runway.
Jason, thank you for your videos, they are great,
a constructive feedback if I may - 30 seconds of every video, especially a short one, for an intro that carries no information - is wasteful at best, please help your viewers save time, 1-2 second intros are the best
Why go around over a steering error when you've already touch down in a controlled manner? Steer it back to centre, don't go full power. His split-second reactions really failed him here. I read up on it, he was doing touch and go's and had done 7 consecutive without issue. Just shows it can happen anytime, anywhere so if I sound like I'm coming down hard on the guy, I'm not. There were also ditches on either side of the runway that are definitely deep enough to catch a Cessna 172. But because he had in full power and the yoke pulled all the way up to his collarbone, he was JUST airborne enough to glide over them.
I had a similar freakout and reacted totally the wrong way practicing power-on stalls. Luckily for me I was 4000' AGL at the time so no worries.
I watched the original video a week before my first solo - bad idea. I was very worried I would be in the sequel (I was not haha)
That was an instructional video of the Iranian Air Force training program.
I have to wonder why he didn't just pull the power?
I do not use this Lindbergh reference and I don't see the need. Well, I am 1.90m at height, therefore I always be able to look in front of the aircraft (even with my C182).
His wheels were on the ground, his flying speed gone... not sure why he thought a go around was in order. That works still in the air, bounce, etc.
In this instance... throttle back and don't give up control, keep those feet moving and steer with feet. And no need to jar one way or the other those rudders. Smooth controls.
This was at first looking just fine with some drift to the left. A smooth while quick move of the rudder input back to the center line and pulling power all the way out, would have just corrected the veering to the left. I'm not even sure I would bother using break differential going that fast, probably what flinged him to the right? Not sure.
Ouch. And that attempt take off? Really? Poor guy. At least he's okay... and we have a video to learn from his nightmare and help us from it ever becoming our own.