Is Port Matching A WASTE Of Time?
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
- Today's lesson is brought to you by @EngineRehab ! We're moving along with some work on the Big Block Mopar 483ci stroker that we're building for @ScannerDanner today by port matching the intake manifold to our Trick Flow CNC Ported Cylinder Heads!
Be sure to check out the entire build series here: • The Story Of @ScannerD...
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#bigblockmopar #portmatch #customenginebuild - Авто та транспорт
Massive thank you to Josh @EngineRehab for taking the time out of his busy schedule to come out to our shop and do a few collaboration videos on the Mopar build for @ScannerDanner! Be sure to check out his channel and give it a sub!
Glad to see that wholesome middle-America influence has got Josh off the blue spray.
36:06
I got a "Hot Rod Sticker, alternator", and it added 25HP to my engine ! (AKS, 2013) lol👍
Thank you so much Josh and Nic for making this all possible for me. You have gone above and beyond what I was expecting for this build and I am forever grateful.
This engine is really going to rip when it gets all put back together. Can't wait to hear it run!
I wish I had the money to port match my intake with my ported cylinder heads. I would've had to buy an aluminum intake, which was out of my budget. I wonder how much of a difference it would make
Can't wait to see/hear it scream!
@WrenchHead I promise to bring that to you guys!
@@damnitbobby8438you can do the samething with a Dremel tool and some cartridge rolls from harbor freight and do it yourself.
Nick - you guys did some beautiful work.
David Vizard would be pleased:)
Remember most of the airflow is in the roof of the port.
So this intake needed to be port matched.
Could equate to 10 to 20 hp
You guys and Gail Banks are the most informative channels on UA-cam. The humor both channels have is a bonus! Thank you.
I agree! Gale Banks meticulous OCD nature is a compliment!
@@billvandorn5332: Well, after all, Mister Banks IS a mechanical engineer (like Nic and me)!
"Gale". Like a gale-force wind.
@@JeffKopisGale-forced wind 😉
@@dieselmunkeywhy must people correct other peoples grammar and/or spelling. In fact either way it’s said is acceptable.
Josh's calm humility magnifies the gravity of his knowledge. Really easy to tune in to listen to him since there's not much ego to get in the way. Been enjoying his presence and your videos! Thanks for sharing this with us!
In every piece of machinery and engineering there is an art that not everyone is the perfect artist...but those that are...are surely worth there salt...evident in today's episode...thank you guys
I love this, Josh and Jim's making videos together. Great!!!
Glad you like them!
Love it!
Porting definitely seems more like an art than a machining process. Fantastic work on this one Josh!
Thanks Josh! I’ll see if I can find the NIST standardization for a guava to send over later.
Good idea to check intake runners for casting flash. I bought a Holley Street Dominator used cheap. I found one of the runners completely blocked off mid-way with casting flash. A little die grinding cleaned it right up. Dual plane manifolds I use a bore scope to make sure the runners are open.
Don’t wait too long to get those security bolts in place. The suspense that head will fall off is killing me.
Most people do not realize how bad the parts are nowadays. When Edelbrock stopped casting their intakes years ago they were really bad. Then they started casting them back in California and miraculously the quality improved.
I’m here for the Cleaning Guys Hair.
I’m half his age with half the hair. lol.
GREAT ending -- "OK, get out! We're DONE with you!" Very funny!
I couldn’t tell you how many hours I’ve watched Josh port heads. You guys are a natural fit to collab, I’ve really been enjoying this
Hope we get to hear this bad boy run on an Engine Stand soon!
I always wondered how port matching was done the RIGHT way , thanks for a great detailed video...
For porting, I HIGHLY recommend Foredom SR series flexible shaft rotary tools. Speed control, lots of power, no problem with spare parts, and accessories up the wazoo! They run eight hours a day for years, and brushes and other wear items are readily available and inexpensive. All accessory shaft sizes fit. There are Jacobs chuck and collet handpieces available.
No, I don't sell 'em, but I use one (of the two I own) almost every day.
I used a TX for a number of years, they’re fine. Not a lot of horsepower for this kind of stuff
@@EngineRehab: Probably as much as the one Josh was using...
@@edwatts9890 a cool foredom setup is like $500. Both my grinders are probably like $600
@@edwatts9890i believe that was Josh replying. I use to love the old cheap looking makitas, then something about them changed, same look but they didnt hold up. For air i like a dotco, power is there. Ive been wanting to try vevors fordom knockoff.
@@EngineRehabdo they actually make wobbly sockets, not a swivel but actual pivot made into the female square drive of a one piece socket? Ive got extensions and ive seen a wobbly swivel, with wobble on the male side which im not sure how well that would work on a swivel.
learned a lot as usual. Now I'm going to port my Briggs engine. Should mow my lawn in half the time :) J/k
The cleaning guy is there to keep the youngsters in line.
As a Journeyman machinist it always amazed me how automotive machining is done vs the other spectrum of machining machine parts, tool, die and mold making. My mind is blown watching this channel.
Leaving a little bit of a rough finish helps do a little bit of tumbling a small amount of tumbling and it keeps the fuel mix broken up better. I think it’s better with a little rough finish than it is too smooth of a finish this six in a row.Jim from Kennerdell Pennsylvania I have a 1991 Dodge three-quarter ton with six in a row under the hood. Give you three guesses what it is all right you have a good day. You guys do nice work.
Hella good porting skills , in depth and just the rite pace . Thanks.👍👍
The collab we never knew we needed. I have no porting experience and ended up buying a spare engine for my daily coz it was too cheap not to buy now I wanna port it!!
I think it's really cool yall got together for some content. Thanks!!
Josh really did a fantastic job. Truly enjoyed the video.
He has some skills for sure ! Thanks for sharing !
Another awesome Sunday morning video, thanks 😊
I love the collaboration. You're both such professional engine builders.
I’m just a hobby machinist.
@@EngineRehab You "just" is better than many "professional" ones.
Can’t wait to hear this engine run!
I put a couple of tiny dabs of silicone to temporarily stick the intake gaskets to the heads with the ports of the gaskets matching the heads and let it cure. Then I put some larger dabs of silicone on the gaskets to bond them to the intake, lightly torque the intake on the engine and let it cure. Finally, I pry the glue apart from the head side of the gasket, leaving the gaskets glued to the intake, scribe the gasket openings on to the intake, remove the gaskets and port away.
Nicely done thank you for sharing
Love learning this stuff from you guys. it’s fascinating and educational!
Nice job guys
I used a finer toothed burr and used the dressing so it wouldn’t clog. Doesn’t go as aggressive, more control. Shaping up nicely.
I always just did a gasket match I used to black magic marker for the shading and dremel tools for hours..
Agreed. That business with the Dykem and scribe is way overkill for anything but a race engine.
was also waiting for this. lol the hints were killer
Very cool video wish they were more of those kind of videos
Informative and entertaining, what more could you want.
Great content thanks for sharing
Some great info and content!
Anything to get more horsepower is a big + in my book awesome job to the both of you.
Thanks for sharing 👍
👍🏻
Thanks for watching!
31:55 Oooooh, Super SLO-MO on the grinder! The special effects here are impressive! 😂
My 64 buick skylark 310 came portmatched from factory. Both ports.matched up perfectly with gaskets.
You guys have got to watch the Beastly 383 SBC build..
601hp on pump gas - street driver
Also a 1060hp BBC 632 cid 13.5 compression
105 octane or 87 octane with water injection
Sound almost like an electric motor when she winds up on the Dyno.
(It’s insane) street driver idles at 800rpm
Can't wait for the end results
Great content and thanks 🔧👍
Hey here's a question for you, does anyone do extrude honing anymore? I did this to a factory intake back in the 90s and I was astonished by the difference it made
I have wondered that myself. I don't see ads for it anymore, cuz I don't read magazines anymore.
@@JeffKopisThere was a video on this on UA-cam here only maybe 5 years ago so you could probably try to find it & see who the company was that were doing it .
Nice work!
Thank you! Cheers!
another great vid guys.
Back 20+ years ago, Extrude honing was a process the premiere process after port matching. Any feedback would be interesting to me.
Thanx
Jim Just finished watching the video. Many thanks for you effort. Just wondering what all that work buys one other than just giving a good warm fussy because of working to make things perfect. Thanks again Johnny old guy in Texas
Cleaning guy didn't like all them chips in his floor he was thinking kids trying to destroy all my hard work I'm glad you asked before cutting his tool up😂😂good video Thanks
Very nice work
Thanks a lot!
Good one!
Your dad a super cool guy too:)
Mr. Jim
Great video, a very informative and interesting watch👌🏻
Would be interesting to know what sort of HP gains this work would be expected to give?
TIL a tungsten electrode makes a great scribe tool for aluminum.
Was Josh using the "super spiral" burr tool?
Another banger!
I'll say it again, "Jim.You guys make my day"
Reverse step can also cause a "whistle" at various RPM you can hear near the carb/intake.
great insight in the how to grind out the ports by hand would you be able to achieve this by using a Milling Machine also i have Heard of grinding out the ports
Question actually two if i may have heard of polishing them does polishing them make a difference at all
Question Two also have hud that doing same to the exhaust can make a difference as well
always great work by Jim's Automotive thank you for all the info over the years i have been watching i now have an arsum engine sitting in my 1967 XR ute but looks like she has to come out and have some port grinding done thank you once again
I'm a Seiko guy myself!!!!!! Great watches!!!
cool video! The burs used look to be available at Cylinder Head Abrasives and the grinders are probably Makita GD0800C (the similar GD0801C doesnt lock ON)
The other one is a 601. Paddle triggers are tiring.
i have used a shop vac in carb opening to pull chips away
Amazing that you cannot take anything for granted on manufactured parts. I did not expect to see the mating surfaces that far out. I wonder if you would consider including more of your set up for positioning parts for machiningIts not obvious (at least to me) how you get a manifold or even an engine block into the correct position for machining.
Everything I've ever done on my vehicles I learned on My own by myself tinkering messing up, trial and error messing up again, an ending with an immense amount of knowledge and success. You don't learn and you don't succeed without practice and knowledge trial and error and getting your hands dirty. I remember the first time I ported a set of heads an intake manifold successfully, I ended up with a significant amount of power not like 50 horsepower or anything like that but the noticeable amount that gave me courage to do it again.
I wouldn't mess with it I just leave the cleaning guys tools alone then this materials alone and let him do his thing, it seems to be pretty good at doing his own thing and very successful at it.
I have never used a quality electric grinder for that. I prefer air because I feel it’s a smoother grind
I’m surprised you didn’t skim it before you ported
Actually you should always mill it first. One time I did that then it didn’t match
Do you ever spray your head gaskets or intake gaskets with aluminum spray paint❤😊
Do not know but is the port finish rough enuf for proper fuel atomization? With 'polishing' do not want to go too far! I guess that would be the bling you talked about with the polishing... Great content and info! Thanks for all the good posts always
That’s right we come here for the cleaning guy😂😂😂
Should ask George from Cleetus Mcfarlands channel to collab.
He was the porting king at Fasterproms before he left.
Would be great exposure for the channel.
id be shocked if cleet allowed anyone to promote another yt channel
Ever see a wet paint sign and just have the urge to see if it was telling the truth?
@@cr-cg7kn has before
That manifold... carb mount is 3 1/2 degrees vs flanges?
Interesting stuff.
Question: why surface the intake manifold AFTER port-matching? Doesn't that drop the intake runners down a bit, out of alignment with the head intake ports?
The best engine builds in the world for a common man..
I noticed the big Carrillo banner on the shop wall. Do you use those connecting rods when you build high performance engines?
Wonder if after the learning curve was climbed, if a 3d scanner would make the process easier/faster.
I would have had two sets of intake gaskets and installed and torqued the manifold to the heads with one set. After an hour or so, I would remove the manifold and measure the thickness of the installed gasket in order to determine its thickness as installed. The second gasket set is for final assembly.
If we're being THAT accurate, a new, uncrushed gasket will be thicker than it will be when installed.
Just curious but wouldnt it make more sense to machine the intake before doing the porting? Wont removing material cause a slight change in the port alignment?
Good program, I always wondered how the ports got matched as they are blind holes when mated. Well, short of borescope cameras. I was kinda surprised that he chose to deck the ports afterwards. I fully realize this is a small amount but just process wise you would think that's the first operation, not last.
Port matching is only beneficial when the engine can consume enough air to take advantage of it. This would also mean that you’re in would have to be capable of supplying the air in the first place.
Usually gains are not but definitely can be seen on a CFM bench and can be beneficial.
Dykem comment, from a machinist. Only use Red dykem on scrap parts. Blue is for layout and marking. 😂😂😂😂 Carry On!
What difference does it make? 🤔
Would like an explanation of how you will realign the manifold onto the heads at final assembly. It seems like there was a lot of possible "slop" in the manifold's position before tightening (especially with those enlarged mounting holes) = so the match porting done was good for the position that it was in when tightened onto the shims, but how do you exactly repeat that position at final assembly? Just look with a borescope and wiggle the manifold around to line up the edges at best as possible again?
great series. Question: in this case would surfacing the intake manifold first be better than surfacing after the port work? Might affect the precision of the alignment of the port scribing?
If you slip with the burr you can clean it up after rather than having to cut the face a second time.
How do they get them to seal? Intake being flexible, lots of bolts with thick gaskets.
By what method do you compensate for the surface cut on the manifold when installing to the heads. Increased gasket thickness ???
Port matching is max effort engineering so if you're hunting horsepower then this is a must.
Notification squad Have a Great weekend!🔥🔥🔥
So if you port that first then surface the intake. Wouldn't that change the port hight to the head. And bring the intake down in the valley. Or is it not enough in this situation to worry about?
Great video - what sort of % power gain would you expect from port matching vs. unmatched?
I’d guess it’s around ten horsepower. Small gains here and there make a big difference.
I just use Prussian blue on both sides of the gasket then mark the gasket position after everything is in place with a couple bolts snugged down I always cut the intake side of the head so a stock intake fits with maybe a trim to the China wall contact area on closed valley engines with that Chrysler they should of just cut intake faces of the head back
Used to be only the valley pan was the gasket so how can the 2 extra fibre ones be added each side and still fit properly ?
My family runs a 3rd generation engraving and trophy shop. Before cnc, we had a device that allowed us to softly trace on one side, while it digs in the engraving on the other side.
A man could take this concept to turn out a custom ground port, and perfectly transfer the shape to an unground port.
Anyways, thanks for the content.
I use a Foredom THX. It's expensive, but worth it's weight in gold. One other thing I did, and I did this purely by accident, I use a Nylon bushing on the burr itself. I can literally hang onto the burr with the bushing and maintain some pretty amazing control of it. Ive never seen that kind of a screw shaped burr though. I like that thing!! Where do those come from and what are they called?
They’re called high helix burrs and they’re the foredom’s worst enemy.
Do Trickflow make a Perfect Gasket for their heads, ???.... usually to use gasket to match port manifold.. tape to head, dobs of glue on manifold.. fit, remove, gaskets stay on manifold... Top work Guys as always....
did you do a pass on the carburetor/throttle body surface too?
Ok on LS, to go from recport intake to catheradal port head there will be some obstruction.
I do this every time
when are you guys moving into the new shop?
You should hunt (for the shop in general) all the lengths of rulers available. From the smallest to the longest. You never know when you need them. One of those kits that come in handy once a blue moon, but boy... when you need them, they're the right stuff.