The healer pulling the immense big brain move of calling for the kick of the other guy, so that people would say Yes thinking it's the healer, is amazing.
Vote kicking highlights the name of player that is the Kicker. They see the healer's name and think thats who is going to be kicked instead when the kicked player name is bottom right of screen lmfaoooo
Scholar successfully soloing the trash for the entirety of the argument while also finding time to type proves their point instantly. If you're tanking and someone runs ahead, just pick up what they pulled. If nobody actually dies, who tf cares?
It's funny to me that the people with elitist mentality seem to suggest that it is difficult to stay alive on healer with all the mobs on you. It's literally easier to stay alive on healer than tank (excluding warrior).
@@HeartabyssKoiI have tried really hard to understand this mentality but it still doesn't make sense. In every dungeon, the tank can hold W all the way to the wall while grabbing every mob on his path. In which case everything will group up nicely for AOEs. What the hell is the advantage of having a healer pull for the tank? This makes zero sense. It's such a random reddit brain strat.
@@lushen952 it only makes sense, if the healer brings the pack to the tank and it saves the tank time to run. I dont mind other players pulling as well, but then bring them to me. I mean, even if people pull to me, its still me who decides where we fight them, and you dont make me faster if you pull for me, except for that one case mentioned above.
And the vast majority of it is from filthy casual snowflakes who mistake legitimate criticisms for toxicity. I guarantee you people like that have never worked a day in retail.
Yeah no. I saw more shit in 2 hours of PF last week than in 2 years of roulette. Don't try to shine the boots of the raiding part of the comunity lmao.
I learned how a tank works being a dps in a dungeon by observation. Also Jocat videos help to the point of being enough. I don't think It was necessary, but seems like its necessary for people with 10 IQ.
there is plenty of guides and resources on how to tank dungeons quickly, if people who don't want to put in the effort to do better or the bare minimum they just won't, so point being it's waste of time for him to do so.
The scarcity of resource is not the problem for those somehow entitled derps. They deliberately choose not to look for such abundant guides but instead stay sucking and grief their randoms because muh pride
@@baronfuath5872Deitys Bless Them GIGACHAD HalfGod Therapists, man. To deal with the weakest of humanity(when they aren't helping the precious and must be protected part of humanity that is)
I had a YPYT in Satasha of all places. The Bard ran ahead and the Gladiator (either new or an alt) turned off stance and sat down. I was WHM, and started tagging more mobs with the two DPS. The tank didn't move until the Bard pointed out we could kick him in three minutes (yes all this started in literally the first room of the dungeon) and that his behaviour was reportable
Like the worst dungeon to make this point, since you could tank sastasha - or almost any sub 50 dungeon - while the tank has their stance OFF and have NO trouble with ANY of the content.
@@vathone5896 Friend did this once. He failed to notice that the healer hadn't followed us as they were studying the loot, apologized, but they decided to lecture him for what was otherwise a simple mistake of not paying attention. So he waited until we got to the last boss and vote kicked them. Admittedly I clicked yes
Honestly what this shows me is two things, none of which have anything to do with etiquette: A) Normal dungeons are way, *way* too easy, and I say this as a casual. B) If tanking is so easy a dumbass could do it, healing is fucking vegetative
I mean, Healing kind of is, that's why healers should be DPSing Hell in the dungeon in the video, if people dodge AoEs the last boss literally only needs Kerachole twice to heal the party
@@TannerLindberg kind of curious what DPS you find interesting For me personally it's pretty much only just Bard since it has a priority system over a strict rotation like other DPS
I don’t know why but I have realized that dungeons have become a lot more toxic recently. the last like 6 dungeons I’ve done, I have had to deal with some really toxic people. The whole ff14 toxicity thing during content drought it starting to make a lot more sense
Its because dungeons are the one place where garbo players can be toxic. Think about it in normal raids trails etc you just pull boss kill boss. Simple Dungeons have an objectively right and wrong way to play it. And no i literally dont care what your opinion on it is. You see the issue yet? Its the only content where things can be done different ways that casuals do. In a savage i dont like the strat i just dont join the group. In random que dungeons you can hold me hostages and force me to sit through 30-60 minutes more dungeon than it needs to be. The worst part of it is how due to how fucking toxic and entitled na casuals are they will view YOU as the bad guy if you complain.
@@TannerLindberg i’m more trying to say that I have never dealt with this amount of toxicity in dungeons before. Before these last few weeks I could have probably counted on a single hand how many toxic players I have dealt with in dungeons. Now i deal with one every few dungeons.
@@kappachino3431 As an NA person, NA is a cesspool. I play on JP and have for a long time and I can count on one hand the amount of toxic players I come across. When I try to play on NA with an alt, I need both hands within a month.
When I'm tanking, If I see a Healer pull ahead that's my cue to go faster because it means they are saying they can handle it. so Bigger pulls a go, if we wipe then I'll slow down for the party to readjust. I always coordinate my pulls with the healer specifically, This goes for WoW and FFXIV.
Hahah same. I do main healer but I wanted to try tanking as well. Once a healer used Rescue on me to pull me into a group of mobs, I laughed so much, and then in the same dungeon when we pulled so many mobs, some CDs were already used, and my HP was getting low so I used Living Dead but survived without it, and the healer wrote: "Our tank doesn't trust me :( ". Ahahaha 😅
A lot of people don't look at the name on the vote kick. If there's some sort of drama happening in party and a vote kick shows up, most people will just hit Yes instantly out of frustration, figuring the one they don't like is the one being kicked.
I actually had people get mad at me for pulling wall to wall in Swallow's Com last week as tank. The healer began rescuing me for running ahead, with their two friends yelling at me for not asking for the healers permission. I then got called elitist for saying "big pulling isn't against the rules and I don't need to ask for permission", their BLM friend told me to go die lmao, and said I could get banned for big pulling because it's griefing. They then attempted to stay behind for the last trash pull, but gave up when they saw I wasn't dying on WAR. They tried to accuse me of having "main character" syndrome because I was on Greg lmao. Last thing they attempted to do was hold me after the final boss by holding the glamour gear hostage. I told them that it was griefing to do that on purpose, and they were like, "No, I'm looking at the stats for pentamelding. Me "Don't even try to lie. Look, I'm tired and prefer not to do this, please." They all left aftwards, lmao. Needless to say, I reported all 3 of them for attempting to even argue and grief for that.
Another day another win for WAR in dungeons. Imagine how butthurt they would've been from the sight of you simply not dying and thus indirectly voiding their entire purpose of existence in that duty. "Why won't you DIE?!" "Raw Intuitions, son!"
This very much reminds me of a tank I had in vaspanati (spelling) dungeon. Didn’t use any mit and had bad gear. I he’d get down to 60% then die to a mob tankbusters. Asked him several times to use mit and he wouldn’t. So once he died I didn’t Rez him and pulled the rest and me and the two dps killed the wall to wall with me tanking. It was less work than keeping him up. Lol
I've left tanks like that dead before. Either I or a DPS can tank and it's unironically easier. Especially if those dps use tools like arms length and bloodlust.
Well, that's a lie. Tanks passively take less damage than a healer does, so if you had used the same healing on the tank as you did on yourself, they would've stayed alive even easier, PLUS they would've been doing damage, which means less healing in the end. Cool story, though.
@@nx6448 You're vastly overvaluing the innate damage resistance tanks have, especially when they have shit gear. A SAM that uses arms length once in a pack is 100% easier to heal than a tank that uses no mits.
@@caleb4717 On top of that, plenty of DPS jobs have abilities to help with sustain, and players are more likely to use them if they see the tank is down or not participating.
The underlying problem seems to be that the dungeons are too easy, and allows for things like poor group dynamics to go unpunished. Back in the day in WOW, you pull as a healer, and you die, then get kicked out having made people think less of you. These dungeons just allow anyone to do anything. Under normal circumstances, the tank should be forced to pull or play off a DPS pulling, but this shows that's not the case. Normal dungeons need to become more difficult to avoid groups becoming unraveled in their role like this one, and not be fine in doing so.
Roulettes are created with the ability to pull wall to wall, but that's not a good idea with all healers, maybe some tanks, therefore, it shouldn't be done on all occasions despite Zeno thinking otherwise.
@@kmurphy0620with all healers? What. Literally only time there is a problem with wall to wall pulls is if you used all your CD's as a tank on a previous pack or on the boss and have 0 CD's left while also not having atleast current crafted gear as a tank while also having DPS players who have not found their aoe buttons so the pack takes more than 1 minute to die.
@kmurphy0620 it just means you are a bad player. All tanks and all healers can do wall to wall. If you're unable to, it just means you're improperly rotating your cooldowns and should do better. The only time and only time you should ever and I mean ever slow down...is due to two bad DPS. At that time, once the 5 minutes pass....you give one the boot.
Except the large complaint now is everyone wants to W2W not 2 pack at a time. That's the big argument these days. No matter how fast you go, it will never be fast enough for those who are not playing the game to enjoy the game but are looking at it as some race to get through as fast as possible.
@@robertfowler7078 well you just told on yourself because 2 packs is wall to wall, pretty much every dungeon now has been streamlined to fit this format with a few fringe exceptions.
@@SilverNightbaneAnother Elemental folk here. The closest one I've witnessed regarding such issues was a SCH who casts nothing but Physicks and as a result downed the tank a few times. I first doubted him as a bot, but at the end of the day he was a sprout in a lv50 dungeon... so I guess he gets the pass??? idk how a person who got the SCH job crystal manage to not know about Adlo or Lustrate, but well I guess it is what it is after all
@@2Shiba I chalk it up to people see higher cure potency = better bang for their buck... Well that and not reading the tooltips XD Physick is 450 Cure Potency, Adlo is 300, but comes with a 180% HP restored Shield, that's not even including the possible Critlo.
Honestly, I'm kind of glad that this is all the drama that we can come up with. If the community is so tame that this is the best drama we can drudge up, then this must be a pretty good community.
Well… if you look hard enough you’re going to find some *very* deplorable shit. And if you’re really itching to know some of the shit that’s happened in this community, I’ll just mention SaltedXIV and you can do the rest of the digging.
@MrHihihiji its a community that thinks it's better than everyone elses because in wow people call you a ret*rd for being bad at the game and being rude and entitled wasting other peoples time. Here people call you ret*rded with out actually saying it. Since you asked them to do more than hit one button every 5 seconds. Ill take the honest hostility anyday
Xeno could learn the difference between "ideal" and "supposed to". It's not that you're "supposed to" pull wall to wall, its just ideal because its the fastest way within the design (since we won't ever see another Wanderer's Palace type setup he described). The design is this way to lock players into the intention of clearing all of the mobs placed before moving on, not "because there is a wall so you must go wall to wall". The people who play without limits would pull the whole dungeon, including the bosses if they could, but then you'd have people forcing their way of playing onto what super casual players could handle, which I would offer is why they throw in walls. Its just better to recognize what the real intention is here by the devs instead of trying to justify how you do things or making up your own conclusion and treating it as fact.
While I think the vid is funny. I do recognize Mysterious Girl. Ran into them a year ago or so. They were giga toxic during a hunt a believe. I just remember immediately putting them on my BL and it's one of the few names on there I still recognize. So while I don't remember exactly what they did it must have left an impression on my subconscious. Doesn't excuse these 3 idiots just standing there for 10 mins either though.
I also have them on my blacklist, and I don't remember what for. I do remember it was when SoS was current content, though. I think they were basically demanding a loot drop and we wouldn't give in. Ain't nobody right here, and props to MG for proving a point, but they're definitely not the bastion of maturity in FFXIV either.
So.... there's something that really rubs me the wrong way about this whole discussion... Dungeons are designed, so that you can easily do wall-to-wall pulls. But it certainly doesn't follow, that SE designed them in this way, so that everyone has to play them like that. FF14 is just a game. We spend our free time with a game, that requires other players to play with us. Nobody is entitled to have a tank that goes at their preferred pace. If you want that, queue up as a tank, or queue with a friend. On the other hand of course these dungeons are easy af. If you want to single pull a mob out of a group that a mage put to sleep, sure... go ahead. But maybe do it with a group oif friends that are fine with this way of playing? Last point: "disrespecting others time" It's just not a point! If you can run the dungeon in 10 minutes or in 12 is irrelevant, you're just playing a game anyway. In a co-op multiplayer game, where you are per se "disrespecting" your own time! (Edit: How about we ask ourselves occasionally how we can make the game better for our fellow players, instead of trying to get it our way no matter what?)
I just queue as Warrior so I can pull wall to wall and not even think about anything anyone else in my party is doing? Healer is refusing to heal me cause I'm going too fast? I didn't notice, I usually run this with 3 dps anyways
The reason there are so many problems in dungeons is because they are easy content. The higher the bar of entry, the less stupid or incompetent people that will be present. That being said, I can understand if the tank was fairly casual and it was their first time in the dungeon that they would want to take it slow for the first time, but to each their own.
"What if it's someone's first time?" Well first, you can see that when you enter, and second, so? If you wipe you wipe and you just take it slower after that. People are so terrified of wipes I can't tell if it's funny or disappointing. "why are you being so toxic?" Dude wrote a novella about why the healer was toxic while actively refusing to do the one thing they're there to do. lol.
The "What if it's someone's first time?" always gets me. Dungeons have virtually been the same since mid ARR. I have no clue how the first DT dungeon will look, but hell, I sure know how trash mobs will go though, just the occasional AoE here and there.
The peabrain mentality of "scholar pulling ahead = bad and toxic" but the 3 stooges looking at the scholar is not bad and totally not toxic behaviour 💀💀💀
When i was leveling tank, i never played tank before and i was a bit anxious to fail my job in the dungeon. So when someone was pulling for me, a newbie who isn't comfortable with the job yet and how much i can pull and not die, i did feel like it was rude. Now that all my tank are max lvl i'm somewhat ok with it (except if a new player is looking at the cutscene and someone pull the boss before me for example) but i still think it's just a bit rude, just learn some patience and let the tank pull.
Letting the tank pull first is a courtesy that derived from pre-ShB meta where snatching back already established aggro was actually a bit of a chore. With that said, courtesy is only a courtesy. It doesn't justify tanks to just quit on his job when anyone doesn't follow this.
@2Shiba oh for sure i'm not trying to justify this at all. When i was beginning at tank and someone was pulling, i would just say in chat that i'm new. Now i just roll my eyes and just proceed to do my job. There is a middle ground between the two side i think, people can be a bit more patient and understanding from both side
I gave up trying to learn to tank. Even if it's "so easy" I am not allowed to get comfortable in that role and instead am forced to adapt to players who run ahead or occasionally berate me. So I decided fuck it. I'll just stick to healing and dps. I don't know how common my experience is, but people are rude in DF and Duty supports AI isn't competent enough to do more than single pulls. So the avenue to actually learn tanking is limited unless you have friends who play, or have a genuine lack of performance anxiety or embarrassment. Personally, I don't come to this game to be insulted.
A lot of people who think this way in dungeons is because they are super casual players that think they are hardcore players by doing a dungeon optimally. Im pretty sure a huge percentage of players think some the duty finder roulettes is hardcore content lmao. On another note props to that scholar for almost soloing that pack. I dont really play healer but i most certainly would have died lol.
I see this kind of incidents as a reason for why dungeons should be harder in general. Those few casuals who insists to be wrong and support his stupidity with the fact that they are STILL able to clear it should be humbled. If harder dungeons become a thing, them shitting on others would be nothing of a drama but a simple laughstock. Whine all you like, but you ain't clearing if you keep at it 😂
I see this kind of incidents as a reason for why dungeons should be harder in general. Those few casuals who insists to be wrong and support his stupidity with the fact that they are STILL able to clear it should be humbled. If harder dungeons become a thing, them shitting on others would be nothing of a drama but a simple laughstock. Whine all you like, but you ain't clearing if you keep at it 😂 Just for the records, no I'm not elitist. I do not consider being able to press 2 to 3 buttons for the bottomline rotation to be something to brag about.
it may be someone's first time in THIS dungeon, but what about literally every single dungeon before this dungeon... they're all the same - "new" excuse doesn't cut it.
Why are casuals so terrified to do big pulls in the lowest difficulty content? What's the worst that could happen, 10% durability loss?? They're out here playing like its hardcore classic
I know someone like that. Usually is because she gets lost or disoriented and doesn’t have the rotation muscle memory of the buttons. She is a crafter main and she is amazing at that but doing the MSQ is painful. I just pull through and keep my mouth shut.
@@newbielolgaga Hypothetically they could be playing RDM/BLM, which is slightly more than 2 buttons, probably a super odd choice for a ''crafter main'' though
@@sakuraonisan2673 main crafter has more abilities than a tank. Unless shes just using macro or actually doesnt do end game crafting then shes not a main crafter. Sad excuse really not to try and learn how to play a job.
Because these modern games condition players to stay bad. These modern games are not challenging, they are hardly 'games' (puzzles, challenges, skill growth) just redundant time wasters for ppl with no hobbies or skills, they don't know what fun is, they only know how to follow what they are told to do. Back then gamers played over other hobbies because games were challenging and fun win or lose, nowadays gamers play because they have nothing else to do/ are lazy as the games become more casualized to get these ppl addicted.
Nah that's just a toxic response, if it is someone's first time they usually say it and usually play it better than people like those 3 guys with zero complaints 😂
not everyone is playing the game with friends and not anyone wants to play with shitty bots, i'm quite shocked to see so many people being crybabies about dungeon taking 3 more minutes to get completed just because the tank is not speedrunning it to please them.
What if no friends and doing a non-story dungeon which doesnt allow npc allies. Let the noobs learn, the whole reason ffxiv got popular was because everyone was nice to first timers. Now it looks like those same wow refugees are turning the community into shit.
I vividly remember wall to wall pull was not a thing back when ARR launched. It was actually discouraged. It was more of finding your own limits and dynamically adjusting to the needs of the group. Now, it's brain dead. Run until dungeon box you in. You are literally gated by sections of the dungeon. People that don't wall to wall especially in expert dungeon is just as bad as people queuing in with missing gear. What if that person is new? Again, the dungeon LITERALLY gates your progress. Even a veteran expert can't pull further than a new player.
Wall to wall pulls were absolutely a thing in ARR with Paladins casting Hallowed Ground / defensives and the party staying out of combat and tucking away from packs so that they could rez the paladin when they died lol. You could do Amdapor Keep in like 5 minutes this way. Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that wall to wall pulling was normalized in ARR to the point that at FanFest 2014 they had a dungeon speed run competition section at the convention lol.
That has more to do with people sucking back then. Bro the average player NOW 10 years later is still like 20 to 30% lower than the bare minimum youd expect. So imagine how bad the average player was 10 years ago
@@Rhaine037 I think OP may be referring to early levelling dungeons as he mentions launch. My memories of handling ARR dungeons, though I started in early HW, is that whether you used big pulls or not depended largely on what DPS you got. Due to TP, there was no gain in pulling big in something like Sastasha as you'd just run out of resources due to insufficient damage output if your two DPS couldn't AoE. By level 50 though? Yeah I agree, big pulls were the norm. I'd say big pulls being the norm started in Dzamael Darkhold.
Thats because tank defensives back then where fucking horrible and healer MP burned so quickly. War tank stance didnt reduce dmg like pld, hell only defensive it had was forsight which increased phys def by 20% thats it lol and had to borrow rampart from pld by leveling it first. Now a days even low level tank has univeral skills of rampart, reprisal, arms length, provoke.
The true test of how good healer is isn't in savage content but rather how long they can keep themselves alive in dungeon groups like this. A good one will waste so much time.
When I 1st started tanking I was kinda aggravated by people pulling ahead, not because I felt like they were being obnoxious but because I had pretty bad tankxiety. If I should ever not pull wall to wall nowadays (sometimes for sprout groups) and someone else grabs aggro I take it as them saying "we're good enough at the game, we got this" and grab the aggro off of them.
This. besides, the game literally has a mode for people that have anxiety to train to their hearts content. Literally trusts are in the game for this very reason. if you want to take the dungeon like you a in country club then be my guest and queue with NPCs all you want until you feel like are ready to join gen pop. The rest of us, have limited time to play and we are not ok with wasting so much time in 1 dungeon when we have to clear other roulettes, etc. These people complaining to the healer cant even fathom that its incredibly rude to not respect peoples time.
it might be annoying at first but its what help you get over that tankxiety cos you just pull back the aggro with aoe then the mobs die and you like oh that was easier than i thought it would be and you get more confident
@@sr7olsniper I agree with that to some extent. Personally I have to say way back when I first started, Tankxiety was never so much about my skills as a tank and more about the sole act of having to face ppl after coming from a game where the devs had broken their own balancing system so badly you did not wanna be caught existing as a support role player. I don't think if they had already existed trusts would have done anything for me. It was more about learning that I COULD queue for something without being insulted to the moon and back just for being there. Also, I guess what is and isn't wasting my time highly depends on the specific context. Personally playing FF I'm pretty chilled out and rarely ever get angry or annoyed. I do like myself some smooth and fast runs in my dailies, but it doesn't always have to be the most optimized experience ever, especially not in duty or party finder. New dungeons are piss easy, but if I go into an older dungeon and a sprout healer can't keep up, forgets to heal and/or asks if we can go slower, I don't mind, I don't see that as them rudely wasting my time. They're new, whatcha gonna do. Just as I don't mind ppl pulling mobs ahead of me if I'm having a tired day after raid and they're just quicker, as long as they don't fuck off to the Bahamas with their new pets afterwards. And even if they do, those pets will end up dead or in my range eventually anyway, so either way I'm chilling. That said I do agree that starting fights and making the dungeon more tedious for everyone involved because of a temper tantrum over something so miniscule is rude and that that IS wasting my precious time. That energy spent on rants and passive aggressive staring at the enemies could have been spent on literally anything more productive.
@@sashacrossi This is mostly to the people that have the Diva attitude of "you pull it you tank it", or people trying to RP by not using their entire toolkit. For example you would have that one tank that refused to AOE or a RDM that refused to cast and just meleed. People like that are just 100% trolling and should be shamed for such. Also keep in mind that this is also mostly applicable to expert roulettes. Like if im doing a leveling roulette or whatever I will be a lot more accommodating because people tend to be new. However if im doing an expert and you are wasting my time, then yeah all bets are off at that point.
The Summoner's friends probably voted to kick them so that the rest could safely leave the instance without occurring s penalty (assuming they did leave since the video ends right after)
i thought so too, until i rewatched the votekick and realized the dancer (as party leader) fills the party as soon as the other dude gets kicked, they probably thought they kicked the healer and found someone to fill, which makes it even better lol
Oh my god, if thats the same Mysterious Girl I'm thinking of, they used to be sort of notorious for pretending to be a girl and catfishing people lol. Also allegedly stalking and other things, but the one i really remember is asking a friend group about them after they kept wiping a pf group doing savage reclears and someone being like "oh yeah they're a catfish". Idk a bunch of people I've met savage raiding has horror stories about them and a couple people claim Mysterious Girl bought their ucob clear. Its kinda hilarious.
lol I just raided with this person on a reclear recently and was fine. I’m laughing though about the catfish thing because when I see a name like mysterious girl, my first thought is ok you are 100% not a girl lol
I did tea uwu and ucob with him and he was ok in tea but in uwu he started to show he was a dick by just being super irritable and kinda forcing me to go along with his cnj run and in ucob he swapped to ast from whm around when we had gotten to golden thus forcing me to change up my entire heal plan for no reason beside he "felt like it". i dont really like him
The way he types my immediate thought was "dude playing female character". Probably manages to catfish the same type of people who cant think through a 3 button rotation for dungeon content
uhm, so im returning to the game on a new character, and i was wanting to choose a gunbreaker. seeing this bit of the vid 6:19, is being a gunbreaker a bad thing?
Nah. It's an In joke with Xeems and the community. He mains warrior and is insanely good at it too, done all of the hard content does race to world first all that jazz. So personal bias memes are abound basically. Any tank is fine. play how you want
honestly as a new player and tank I was very unfamiliar with dungeon etiquette and found myself in an expert dungeon I only played one time before as a healer. so I was trying to be useful and pull more but then I died despite mits, realized the healer was struggling so I went slower. told "pull more" so I did and died, I really thought I was doing something wrong so I asked if we could go slower but they were not having it lol. I was like "you can leave if u want" and got kicked instead. oh well 😂
I remember doing The Wanderer's Palace Hard back in ARR going wall to wall was the best memories playing with my friends, it felt like we were doing something that was intended with all the skills we had and teaching people a more effective way of clearing
Had a sage in my party call me (also a sage) out for only dpsing and leaving all the healing to him. I told him that I didn't have to hard cast heals as Sage at all. It also turned out that I was parsing - he healed less health than I did.
When I tank with a random healer, I may start small to gauge their ability to heal. The moment the healer walks ahead to pull more to me, wall-to-wall is enabled, no reason for being mad, they can clearly keep me alive.
I've MTed in WoW for high end guilds, from Wrath all the way to WoD, before going casual. When I did, I had this mentality where 'the tank pulls, end of story'. Once I went casual I slowly began to lose this, but I always maintained one thing: If the healer is pulling, it's because they want a challenge. They saw what you grabbed, saw how you were handling it, and decided they wanted to actually have to play the game. That, or they know they're good and will pull more. I have never in the history of ever seen a healer pull that wasn't confident, jaded af from years of healing, and one DPS standing in fire away from genocide. So if the healer pulls, just shrug and grab the damned mobs. They're doing it cause they're bored, not because you're bad.
I see some people saying long dungeons are from dps players too and while this is partially true, ill explain the dps perspective a little bit. if you do single pack pulls, this puts dps in a bit of a bind because the smartest thing to do here is blow 2 mins on pack 1 and save the one minutes for the next pack because ultimately the amount of pulled mobs will not change the kill speed that these mobs will die at, you just elongate it. so now pack 1 is 2 min cds, pack 2 will take longer with just 1 mins, pack 3 is 2 mins again, pack 4 is most likely 1 mins, each pack is gonna be roughly 2-4 mins assuming everyone isnt giga sweaty but also everyone isnt giga bad., so about 6-10 mins on one set of mobs, you then have no cd's ready for the boss, so thatll take longer as a result of this, and then you repeat this a few times. So mobbing can take 12-16 mins, bosses will be roughly 3-4 mins each, your easily looking at a 21+ minute dungeon even with the dps doing the absolute most optimal things here because of you burning their cd's doing single pulls. The game has way too much mitigation and overheal not to just wall to wall it, i can tank a dungeon on melee perfectly fine with a healer and ive duo'd them. this game even has invulns still in dungeons lol
if dps blow both 1's and 2's on pack one, that second pack is 1-2 spam for a good while, this isnt like 1 minute burst windows anymore like shb, these cd's are long as shit, and i feel thats something people often overlook.
Back then even though we didn't have walls we still would pull all the way to the boss and sleep, and if you didn't have black mage (i.e. pug) you just eyeball how much damage you can take from how many mobs. I've always been mixed with wall to wall design. Sure, it put a high end cap on how much you could tank and how many monsters you could deal damage to at once. On the other hand, it set a standard that was very easy to understood for anyone who didn't have double digit IQ: Pull wall to wall. Unfortunately, there's a reason why 100 is average. A **lot** of people don't pick up on that and will literally fight and die on a hill of single pulling and "you pull you tank"
Yeah people that describe wall to wall as this impossible task clearly were not around when we used to do what actually gave birth to the large pull meta. The game would have eaten them alive back then.
Personally idgaf if a tank single pulls or not. The difference between single pulling and wall to wall has been, in my experience, a difference of 4 minutes if everyone is using their aoe like they're supposed to.
If you que expert roulette doesnt mean the others are als queing for Expert roulette. Especially on Patchdays you can see it frequently when you que for expert but still have couple of ppl with first time bonus.
Ah yeah, you're right actually. Though, also, don't you get a notification at the start of any dungeon/trial you are in notifying that someone is new?@@DantoriusD
@@Link-kr2bcOr, wild thought, people can respect each other and not impose stuff in others and accept to work together. You don't NEED to wall to wall nor to go slow, make it clear and by a miracle people might list I'm a tank/healer that prefers to go slow simply because I prefer it so and I make it loud and clear.
@@Nimi450this. Not wanting to W2W does not trump wanting to W2W and the opposite is true as well. It's like most things that are left up to large we groups to decide, majority rules. If the majority wants to go slow go slow. If the majority wants to go fast go fast. You are not the end all of what is done in FF14 nor is your want and desire more important than any others. Get along with people. Why be the problem when you can easily just go along. That's what the best, most liked and happy players do. If you are sooo good, then adjust to the groups play style. Or, stop doing duty finder and just play with friends or FC members.
I have had this happen to me once. It was a two stack who was the healer and the tank and I pulled ahead of the tank. The people literally held the dungeon hostage they wouldn't move forward, wouldn't kick me, wouldn't vote disband. In the end I just went AFK to run the timer out because I had all day.
While i understand not wanting to put up with toxic casuals, the amount of sweatiness needs to chill out too. Not everyone is at the same skill level. As it was said, dungeons are the casual content, so to act upset that you will be playing with casuals from time to time is just odd. And while I agree that tanks can easily handle more than one mob at a time, not every tank is that confident in their own skill, or even aware of how skilled the healer they are playing with is. Not to mention, certain dungeons previously have instilled in them a fear and/or respect of underestimating mobs. If they are new, they literally have no idea if the enemies in this dungeon are going to be hitting them like the msq roullette, or like the more punishing pulls in bardams mettle. They might want to take it slow to get a feel for the dungeon, and not have some sweaty dps or healer making things needlessly difficult by trying to constantly push them and back-seat tank. Thats just annoying. For all you know, the tank is taking the dungeon slow because they have some kind of disability. Maybe they dont wish to divulge that information to strangers, maybe they want to play with friends and not npc's for this part in the story. The issue is nuanced. Some tanks are indeed needlessly casual, and should try to push themselves more and be more open to actual constructive criticism or else just play with the npcs, but not EVERY casual tank. Just like its okay to try to encourage a tank pull more by asking them to. Running ahead is typically seen as rude, and rightfully so. Alot of tanks roll with it and in my case even appreciate it as its a few less hits i have to take before i pick up the aggro when tanking. But it can be very chaotic and anxiety inducing to a newer/inexperienced/ disabled tank. If your goal is to speed run dungeons, try to run it with friends, play the tank yourself, or at least ask if the pace can be increased. Or encourage them. let them know, "hey, this dungeon is easy, feel free to pull wall to wall, i got your back" or something like that. Communicate. Dont just play how you want and expect others to bend to your playstyle. This goes for casuals too, but more towards the sweaties because they have a greater capacity for adjustment. A sweaty can handle a slower pace, a casual typically can't handle a breakneck pace. Thats why it's on the sweaty to be a bit more understanding.
Wait, people don’t big pull in dungeons? In current year? I mean, I can understand not big pulling on under 50 dungeons, since you don’t have many cooldowns, or some classes don’t get their AOE until way late (cough cough DRAGOON cough cough,) but after level 50, you best start pulling more than 1 pack of mobs, or people are gonna look at you funny. One of my few joys in life in endgame dungeons is wall-to-wall pulling, popping Bloodwhetting, and laughing at the pack of mobs that can’t kill me.
tbh most pre-50 dungeons are piss easy to wall to wall since mobs die so fast, even with just the tank using AoEs. It's only when you get up to about Stone Vigil to Aurum Vale that pulls are even slightly threatening.
Communicating if you’re going to pull big or small isn’t that hard of a thing to do either though. If they don’t communicate, just go big. If you have a problem that they’re pulling small, just tell them that. If they don’t change, fine whatever not that big of a deal, vote kick them, blacklist them, but no need to be extra.
I don't understand why ppl who have been playing for years, don't sit back and let new players, actually enjoy the game, learn mechanics and roles. I know I'm older, and I've been playing online games for longer than some gamers have been alive, but...what is so wrong about going slower in a dungeon? Do you have somewhere to be in 10 minutes? If so, get off the game and go do your irl stuff. I've only been playing for a little over a year, and some dungeons I know like the back of my hand...but if I see a little sprout (new) or a flower (returning) I ask if they want me to go wall to wall, or would they prefer 2 groups at a time, etc... If I'm healing and that's all I'm doing to keep a tank and group alive...then you are pulling more than you can handle, my friend...not everyone can do wall to wall, and it's okay. What's toxic is when the person (not a tank) decides that the tank isn't doing their job and then starts pulling for them...I'm sorry but that is rude and if you think it's okay to do that, to a new player, than you are the problem.
I didn't get in the video that it was only level 90 being discussed. I was talking about newish players (lvl 15 to 50ish). Or you know, the people who have never done a specific dungeon before and you get your little xp bonus because of that. Or a lvl 60 gunbreaker who has never played their character as a tank (maybe they've only done dps, or heals)
Tanking is very easy. You just look at your healer when everyone is loaded in: If he pops sprint at the beginning - you go fast If he runs - you go normal If he stands in the starting area, looking around at the scenery - you go slow
This is something i really hate when i tank. Dont care if they doing dps the one grp while running towards the second one but i freaking hate it when they pull aggro and then running away from me.
Crazy how people really don't like that you steal their " job " in a dungeon xD It's like they think a tank is needed when pretty much every role have the same weight on dungeons maybe beside bosses Imagine if healers would stop playing because a tank or melees are using tools that heals them (':
It does bug me when someone's pulling ahead of me, even as I'm going about as fast as the game will allow. Like it doesn't change anything, it doesn't really affect the outcome, other than it being more annoying to pull some stragglers off someone sometimes, depending on the situation, but it just feels like, let me do my job lol, like I see the enemies, I will get them, I'm not going slow, so just let me do what I'm supposed to do. But usually I'll still just keep quiet and go about it, it's just annoying when I know I'm not going slow, it's like their saying "fuck you go faster." That said everyone in this video just came out the gate aggressive at each other, so this was just never going to go another way lol
Start dungeon then active tank stance if it isn't on and cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill last boss. Anything other than that as a tank is bad, it's not that hard. EDIT: Forgot to say kill the mobs
This kind of thing happened to me. Once I was a RDM in a lvl 90 dungeon with a paladin. I did too much damage on the first trash each time so I would get back aggro and he would berate me about pulling without being a tank. They waited until the last zone of the dungeon before kicking me, I blacklisted them all. When I play as a DPS in a dungeon I always end up taking some aggro or taking a whole TB at some point it's annoying. But playing as a tank became boring too.
People get this butt hurt if you're a tank and pull wall to wall. i've gotten kicked a couple times cause i pulled the mobs and the people would wait around and wouldn't heal me so they could vote kick. FFXIV has the worst playerbase in MMOs period. 93% don't know how to play the game and the ones that do are afraid to say anything cause they'll get banned by mass report.
No seriously the weekly loot lock out only being able to have one each blue item making have multi class bis impossible unless its cross role. The tome cap. Grinding ather pool for days. Grinding the garbo low pevels in eurika and bohja. This game has so many garbage systems put in place to make you not want to play it. And if you ignore all of that. And try to just play. Unless you're in savage or an ult the content is so brain dead easy you dont even need to be tabbed in to win
I remember, back in ShB, I think it was on the day 5.2 launched. The tank pulled wall to wall, it was obviously everyone's first time, including them. Both DPS were absolutely FURIOUS, calling the tank a toxic elitist for doing this on release day even though all dungeons have been virtually the same since 2.1 released. It is important to note that absolutely nobody came close to die. They even went as far as claiming this was rude for the healer, which made me laugh so hard since that healer was me and all I did is tell the tank "screw them just pull everything". One of them left. I'll never force it on a tank that doesn't want to, however i'll be rolling my eyes. And I'll be rolling them so hard you could see my optical nerves. People need to stop associating wall to wall to hardcore gameplay. That's not even close to be challenging, you're not even doing stuff differently, you just have more monsters to hit. That's it. Dungeons have been designed that way, mobs are not doing anything meaningful except throwing out the occasional AoE.
As a tank, I generally test the healer by pulling EVERYTHING between spawn to the first bosses wife's bedroom. If we wipe I'll adjust, after one or two more fails. If someone pulls ahead it means I missed a few or the healer is confident enough not to let me develop a floor fetish. The only time I don't try to slam my nuts against the bosses face in record timing is if I'm learning the dungeon or I'm just beyond lazy. Some adds/dungeons have weird mechanics.
The SCH just casually killing the large pull on their own and responding in chat is pure chef's kiss. If a healer can do it alone, where's the problem? The vote kick was also pretty hilarious. Definitive proof that these kind of people are just not paying attention, assuming this wasn't staged. (Please don't be staged, I need to know this actually happened haha)
"Why do so many people have issues in dungeons?" Because like 90% of people who play videos absolutely suck and/or simply don't care enough to get better. This is what invariably happens when you cater to casuals, and tragically there's no sense bitching about it. If you're lucky, some constructive criticism may actually get through and help them and everything will be good after. * Edited for a typo. But it's probably best to just prepare for the worst and keep your head down. God I miss how XI filtered people and since there was almost no instanced content, your reputation on your server actually mattered.
That reminds me how your reputation mattered a bit until late HW when cross world PF was implemented. Before that, outside of DF, you were limited to you own server if you wanted to run stuff. People would remember you if you did good or bad.
As the game went on, pretty much post heavensward and the vault, they had to dumb down the dungeons bc apparently it was too much for their casual playerbase which is like obviously the majority. Basically got to the point to where eos could solo heal the dungeons and that's not an over exaggeration. Being able to tank kite and kill everything while being able to type is funny and not surprising for a good healer. They need to hurry that sht up and help and stop complaining or we're gonna be here for 70 mins to prove a point.
Okay, I can totally understand people being upset if a DPS pulls extra mobs. It's entirely possible that either the tank or healer can't deal with a full wall-to-wall pull, or even that both of them can't - whether that's due to low skill, bad equipment, or even just being uncomfortable doing large pulls. If the tank pulls everything and the healer can't keep them alive - again, for whatever reason - then the tank should recognize that and slow the pulls down. If the HEALER pulls everything, that means they are 100% confident they can keep everyone alive. NO ONE should be complaining if the healer pulls extra mobs.
In this case i kinda dont favor neither of them, both the healer and the party suck Like i dont care about the healer pulling ahead of the tank But if the healer who's pulling just replies to the complaint with '' small PP energy'' i feel that's the rudeness of the situation I dont think they're calling the healer rude for pulling , but the healer is just constantly trying to provoke the entire party ''Small PP energy'' ''Oh im sorry did i upset your boyfriend?'' I personally don't care about these insults, i'll be like ''Look who's talking lmao'' but i also know if someone criticized me pulling and i respond with an insult im just starting the fight, i feel like if the healer was like ''Look im just trying to get the dungeon faster'' it would've been like ''Just let us know'' ''k whatever'' it would've ended The healer's responses are just starting this whole argument and fight and im really not on their side anymore. But the party also just following and not being the bigger people despite being in a stack, This whole party was seems like gasoline and a cigar about to blow up regardless
While I don’t really believe that dungeons were designed specifically to pull wall to wall, they were designed with that option in mind. If you don’t wanna go balls to the wall, go in with a Trust if its your first time or go with friends who are willing to take it slow. And if you ever encounter this kind of shit, just leave the instance lol. I get both sides, but I ain’t got the time to sit here and argue. I’ll take the penalty and go outside and touch grass for 30 min.
I don't care is people pull for me, only if they come back to me. The only time I actually get annoyed is when someone knows I've run out of sprint, runs ahead, pulls all the enemies and keeps running. I had a Sam constantly do this to me almost dying a couple time, I didn't yell at him I just told him to chill out with that, I didn't need his help.
This is why I always queue on Warrior. Don't have to worry about whether the tank will wall-to-wall pull. Don't have to worry about healers not healing, because I can heal myself. Don't have to really worry about DPS because the only thing they do in most cases is make the dungeon go slightly faster. Never have to stress about how bad or toxic other players are by making such easy content painful if you have zero dependence on them.
I think the core of this problem is that many healers have "main character syndrome" and tanks do too. A tale as old as time. Preface, I'm a tank player, have been in FFXIV for 8 years. I do not mind when people pull ahead, it's whatever.
Two things. As Xeno is well aware, dungeons are not designed for players like him. They literally exist to supplement the story. They provide a backdrop/scenic area - 99% of dungeon design is aesthetic. That's it. If it's someone's first time in a dungeon and they want to pull one at a time to enjoy it, I think that's reasonable. So one of the players comments about "what if it's their first time" is 100% valid. That Xeno doesn't understand this is not surprising. He is literally a story skipper. Which is totally fine, but this really isn't in his lane. This is a problem with the roulette system being encouraged for endgame raiders for a lazy tome grind while simontaneously consisting of dungeons that are the opposite of hardcore. It's bad game design, these players shouldn't be forcibly pushed into the same game mode. Second, the three stack, surprisingly, is actually being very polite. The healer is being rude and condescending. I don't really care whose in the right and whose in the wrong, respect and decency always trumps disrespect. I just don't understand why people queue into a roulette which is a random map with random players and then complain about the randomness of the circumstances. If you want to do the dungeon fast and efficient, queue with your fc or friends. Or just don't queue. You don't need roulettes for anything, there are other ways to level and get tomes that are actually more efficient. If you don't want to deal with other mentalities, don't queue in the player roulette....
Pull one at a time to enjoy what? They're called trash mobs for a reason. The golems in Aetherfont are literally identical to the pirates in Sastasha. There's no content to enjoy or respect, it's explicitly just fat to chew. You actually get *less* gameplay by single pulling because then every ability on the entire party's bars becomes obsolete through the sheer, uncomplicated weakness of the trash. If you want to take your time and look around you're not going to hear anyone complaining about waiting for you at the next pull, so just kill the enemies and do your thing after.
Lmfaooooo on that first point. THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT TRUSTS ARE *THERE* FOR! Trust NPC's give you additional lines of dialogue during the battles! WTF do you MEAN, single-pulling in an expert roulette has value for story-loving folks???? That's just total BS. There's never any value in a player-party for that playstyle, there's more value in a trust-party for that playstyle. I say this as somebody who adores FF14's story. You're literally breaking immersion by taking your time when you consider that you're supposed to be much, MUCH stronger than all this "chump change" TRASH, especially when MOST dungeons have a sense of urgency around their story! You're going THROUGH it to GET somewhere and STOP something! So GOGOGO! Second point, yeah wtf is up with that Scholar's attitude though. Literally just chill out and relax. The SCH already knows they're not going to be dying anytime soon. Literally just gotta be more stubborn than the group and chill out, and they'll realize that they're wasting their own time by being pathetic whining babies that can't handle a couple extra weak as fuck TRASH mobs here or there.
@@vuerenkuraenir Trusts are irrelevant in the context of a 3Q as this implies they want to play together. And some people just dont like them for whatever reason. Not to mention duty support/trust has never been brought up by Xeno and is not his argument at all and therefore not what I am contesting.
@@sird31mos The thing you are completely missing is I am not disagreeing with your mentality. That's also how I play. I just don't assert my own mentality onto other people when I volentarily enter into a gamemode that queues me with random people that may have completely different mentalities, whether or not I understand or relate to them. This is basically my entire point. You CHOOSE volentarily to enter into a gamemode that advertises that you have no idea who you're going to match with. And then you complain about how they play the game. No one is forcing you to do this, this is literally what you have chosen to do with your time, and you're fantasizing that what you queued into is something that it plainly isnt. They don't have to have a point to justify for their behavior, you choose to queue with them despite not knowing anything about them. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time thinking outside of their own perspectives. Your ideology and mentality makes sense to you, why do you just assume that it is transferable to every other person?
You're talking an awful lot about "perspective" for someone whose thesis is that anyone caught complaining is automatically wrong and anyone actively avoiding the game systems is automatically correct.
You don't fuck with Scholars bro, it takes an entirely different breed of genes to fuckin play that class 😂 that scholar really be pullin all mobs, soloing them, managing aetherflows, WHILE TYPING!! There is a reason why their job icon is a pair of balls bro.
This has been a issue in duty finder dungeons for soooooo long, i am glad someone is finally talking about it. As a tank, it doesnt matter if people grab adds ahead of you sprint, gap close and get that aggro. its your job.
The healer pulling the immense big brain move of calling for the kick of the other guy, so that people would say Yes thinking it's the healer, is amazing.
Vote kicking highlights the name of player that is the Kicker. They see the healer's name and think thats who is going to be kicked instead when the kicked player name is bottom right of screen lmfaoooo
You know they voted to dismiss thinking one of the other players did it on the healer and didn't even bother to read who they were dismissing
Scholar successfully soloing the trash for the entirety of the argument while also finding time to type proves their point instantly. If you're tanking and someone runs ahead, just pick up what they pulled. If nobody actually dies, who tf cares?
As a tank i love it when people run ahead and grab mobs it honestly saves me a bit of effort and tbh what else are they using their hp for?
As a tank I love specifically when the healer pulls ahead of me because god damn it that means it’s party time
It's funny to me that the people with elitist mentality seem to suggest that it is difficult to stay alive on healer with all the mobs on you.
It's literally easier to stay alive on healer than tank (excluding warrior).
@@HeartabyssKoiI have tried really hard to understand this mentality but it still doesn't make sense. In every dungeon, the tank can hold W all the way to the wall while grabbing every mob on his path. In which case everything will group up nicely for AOEs. What the hell is the advantage of having a healer pull for the tank? This makes zero sense. It's such a random reddit brain strat.
@@lushen952 it only makes sense, if the healer brings the pack to the tank and it saves the tank time to run. I dont mind other players pulling as well, but then bring them to me.
I mean, even if people pull to me, its still me who decides where we fight them, and you dont make me faster if you pull for me, except for that one case mentioned above.
I literally can't describe how funny it is to me that there's more toxicity per capita in casual dungeons than in Savage/Ultimate PF
Its because casuals are per capita way more toxic than ult raiders.
thats were all the shitters are. On savage you get filtered by phase 2
And the vast majority of it is from filthy casual snowflakes who mistake legitimate criticisms for toxicity.
I guarantee you people like that have never worked a day in retail.
Maybe because most people taking harder content that seriously have a static and don't rely on PF
Yeah no. I saw more shit in 2 hours of PF last week than in 2 years of roulette. Don't try to shine the boots of the raiding part of the comunity lmao.
Xeno you might seriously want to make a "How to run a dungeon" guide. No joke, I feel like the community needs it.
I learned how a tank works being a dps in a dungeon by observation. Also Jocat videos help to the point of being enough.
I don't think It was necessary, but seems like its necessary for people with 10 IQ.
there is plenty of guides and resources on how to tank dungeons quickly, if people who don't want to put in the effort to do better or the bare minimum they just won't, so point being it's waste of time for him to do so.
If they need that then they should leave the community.
The scarcity of resource is not the problem for those somehow entitled derps. They deliberately choose not to look for such abundant guides but instead stay sucking and grief their randoms because muh pride
dubya
How do people like this manage stress in the real world?
thats a question for their therapists.
@@baronfuath5872Deitys Bless Them GIGACHAD HalfGod Therapists, man.
To deal with the weakest of humanity(when they aren't helping the precious and must be protected part of humanity that is)
A lot of them are terminally online and in echo chamber communities.
They tell life to stop big pulling and stand still
That's the neat part, they don't.
I had a YPYT in Satasha of all places. The Bard ran ahead and the Gladiator (either new or an alt) turned off stance and sat down. I was WHM, and started tagging more mobs with the two DPS. The tank didn't move until the Bard pointed out we could kick him in three minutes (yes all this started in literally the first room of the dungeon) and that his behaviour was reportable
Would have been hilarious if you did the entire dungeon without him, then before the final boss kicked him so he didn't get the completion.
That tank started pouting as soon as he realized he wasnt the main character lmao
@@vathone5896I've done that😂
Like the worst dungeon to make this point, since you could tank sastasha - or almost any sub 50 dungeon - while the tank has their stance OFF and have NO trouble with ANY of the content.
@@vathone5896 Friend did this once. He failed to notice that the healer hadn't followed us as they were studying the loot, apologized, but they decided to lecture him for what was otherwise a simple mistake of not paying attention. So he waited until we got to the last boss and vote kicked them. Admittedly I clicked yes
Honestly what this shows me is two things, none of which have anything to do with etiquette: A) Normal dungeons are way, *way* too easy, and I say this as a casual. B) If tanking is so easy a dumbass could do it, healing is fucking vegetative
I mean, Healing kind of is, that's why healers should be DPSing
Hell in the dungeon in the video, if people dodge AoEs the last boss literally only needs Kerachole twice to heal the party
Yes dps is the only role that takes any ammount of brain power. Even then only like 3 of the dps are interesting at all.
@@TannerLindberg kind of curious what DPS you find interesting
For me personally it's pretty much only just Bard since it has a priority system over a strict rotation like other DPS
@@Feast_personally for me it's just ninja, even then it's just practice mudra.
@@TannerLindbergReaper, Summoner, and Dragoon.
I don’t know why but I have realized that dungeons have become a lot more toxic recently. the last like 6 dungeons I’ve done, I have had to deal with some really toxic people. The whole ff14 toxicity thing during content drought it starting to make a lot more sense
Its because dungeons are the one place where garbo players can be toxic.
Think about it in normal raids trails etc you just pull boss kill boss. Simple
Dungeons have an objectively right and wrong way to play it. And no i literally dont care what your opinion on it is. You see the issue yet? Its the only content where things can be done different ways that casuals do.
In a savage i dont like the strat i just dont join the group. In random que dungeons you can hold me hostages and force me to sit through 30-60 minutes more dungeon than it needs to be.
The worst part of it is how due to how fucking toxic and entitled na casuals are they will view YOU as the bad guy if you complain.
@@TannerLindberg i’m more trying to say that I have never dealt with this amount of toxicity in dungeons before. Before these last few weeks I could have probably counted on a single hand how many toxic players I have dealt with in dungeons. Now i deal with one every few dungeons.
I play on JP never met any rude ppl there... Yesterday got wiped 9 times fighting lahabrea and everyone just cool
@@kappachino3431 As an NA person, NA is a cesspool. I play on JP and have for a long time and I can count on one hand the amount of toxic players I come across. When I try to play on NA with an alt, I need both hands within a month.
@@kellevichy Sad to know that, man i should never touch NA then. Noted
When I'm tanking, If I see a Healer pull ahead that's my cue to go faster because it means they are saying they can handle it. so Bigger pulls a go, if we wipe then I'll slow down for the party to readjust. I always coordinate my pulls with the healer specifically, This goes for WoW and FFXIV.
Hahah same. I do main healer but I wanted to try tanking as well. Once a healer used Rescue on me to pull me into a group of mobs, I laughed so much, and then in the same dungeon when we pulled so many mobs, some CDs were already used, and my HP was getting low so I used Living Dead but survived without it, and the healer wrote: "Our tank doesn't trust me :( ". Ahahaha 😅
how do you go in 3v1 and lose the vote kick
A lot of people don't look at the name on the vote kick. If there's some sort of drama happening in party and a vote kick shows up, most people will just hit Yes instantly out of frustration, figuring the one they don't like is the one being kicked.
It really shows how stupid ff14 casuals actually are they literally unironically will not read
Stupidity at its finest lmao
3v1 but the 3 only have one braincell each vs 1 normal human
I actually had people get mad at me for pulling wall to wall in Swallow's Com last week as tank. The healer began rescuing me for running ahead, with their two friends yelling at me for not asking for the healers permission. I then got called elitist for saying "big pulling isn't against the rules and I don't need to ask for permission", their BLM friend told me to go die lmao, and said I could get banned for big pulling because it's griefing. They then attempted to stay behind for the last trash pull, but gave up when they saw I wasn't dying on WAR. They tried to accuse me of having "main character" syndrome because I was on Greg lmao.
Last thing they attempted to do was hold me after the final boss by holding the glamour gear hostage. I told them that it was griefing to do that on purpose, and they were like, "No, I'm looking at the stats for pentamelding. Me "Don't even try to lie. Look, I'm tired and prefer not to do this, please." They all left aftwards, lmao. Needless to say, I reported all 3 of them for attempting to even argue and grief for that.
lmfao griefing for big pulling and pentamelding on dungeon gears
Another day another win for WAR in dungeons. Imagine how butthurt they would've been from the sight of you simply not dying and thus indirectly voiding their entire purpose of existence in that duty.
"Why won't you DIE?!"
"Raw Intuitions, son!"
Okay, but you get your the asshole here yeah?
This very much reminds me of a tank I had in vaspanati (spelling) dungeon. Didn’t use any mit and had bad gear. I he’d get down to 60% then die to a mob tankbusters. Asked him several times to use mit and he wouldn’t. So once he died I didn’t Rez him and pulled the rest and me and the two dps killed the wall to wall with me tanking. It was less work than keeping him up. Lol
I've left tanks like that dead before. Either I or a DPS can tank and it's unironically easier. Especially if those dps use tools like arms length and bloodlust.
Well, that's a lie. Tanks passively take less damage than a healer does, so if you had used the same healing on the tank as you did on yourself, they would've stayed alive even easier, PLUS they would've been doing damage, which means less healing in the end.
Cool story, though.
same reason i dont esuna ppl that get hit by morbol breath. its less effort to just rez them rwther than casting esuna 12times
@@nx6448 You're vastly overvaluing the innate damage resistance tanks have, especially when they have shit gear. A SAM that uses arms length once in a pack is 100% easier to heal than a tank that uses no mits.
@@caleb4717 On top of that, plenty of DPS jobs have abilities to help with sustain, and players are more likely to use them if they see the tank is down or not participating.
The underlying problem seems to be that the dungeons are too easy, and allows for things like poor group dynamics to go unpunished. Back in the day in WOW, you pull as a healer, and you die, then get kicked out having made people think less of you. These dungeons just allow anyone to do anything. Under normal circumstances, the tank should be forced to pull or play off a DPS pulling, but this shows that's not the case. Normal dungeons need to become more difficult to avoid groups becoming unraveled in their role like this one, and not be fine in doing so.
Roulettes are created with the ability to pull wall to wall, but that's not a good idea with all healers, maybe some tanks, therefore, it shouldn't be done on all occasions despite Zeno thinking otherwise.
@@kmurphy0620with all healers? What. Literally only time there is a problem with wall to wall pulls is if you used all your CD's as a tank on a previous pack or on the boss and have 0 CD's left while also not having atleast current crafted gear as a tank while also having DPS players who have not found their aoe buttons so the pack takes more than 1 minute to die.
@@kmurphy0620wrong it should be done on all occasions
@@kmurphy0620 Found the bad player.
@kmurphy0620 it just means you are a bad player. All tanks and all healers can do wall to wall. If you're unable to, it just means you're improperly rotating your cooldowns and should do better.
The only time and only time you should ever and I mean ever slow down...is due to two bad DPS. At that time, once the 5 minutes pass....you give one the boot.
Pull 2 packs>burn>Pull 2 packs>burn>Boss. It's been like this for several expansions now.
Except the large complaint now is everyone wants to W2W not 2 pack at a time. That's the big argument these days. No matter how fast you go, it will never be fast enough for those who are not playing the game to enjoy the game but are looking at it as some race to get through as fast as possible.
@@robertfowler7078 well you just told on yourself because 2 packs is wall to wall, pretty much every dungeon now has been streamlined to fit this format with a few fringe exceptions.
Thank you for reminding me about locking out mobs. I feel old
I am thankful I never run into these type of people on my DC.
Same. I almost never see this kind of fuckery in Elemental.
Granted, I still see things like this... just never this bad XD
@@SilverNightbaneAnother Elemental folk here. The closest one I've witnessed regarding such issues was a SCH who casts nothing but Physicks and as a result downed the tank a few times.
I first doubted him as a bot, but at the end of the day he was a sprout in a lv50 dungeon... so I guess he gets the pass???
idk how a person who got the SCH job crystal manage to not know about Adlo or Lustrate, but well I guess it is what it is after all
@@2Shiba I chalk it up to people see higher cure potency = better bang for their buck... Well that and not reading the tooltips XD
Physick is 450 Cure Potency, Adlo is 300, but comes with a 180% HP restored Shield, that's not even including the possible Critlo.
Honestly, I'm kind of glad that this is all the drama that we can come up with. If the community is so tame that this is the best drama we can drudge up, then this must be a pretty good community.
Well... Don't look too much for it, that's all I got to say
the community is honestly awful. it's the most passive aggressive community i've ever seen.
Well… if you look hard enough you’re going to find some *very* deplorable shit. And if you’re really itching to know some of the shit that’s happened in this community, I’ll just mention SaltedXIV and you can do the rest of the digging.
@MrHihihiji its a community that thinks it's better than everyone elses because in wow people call you a ret*rd for being bad at the game and being rude and entitled wasting other peoples time.
Here people call you ret*rded with out actually saying it. Since you asked them to do more than hit one button every 5 seconds.
Ill take the honest hostility anyday
@@TannerLindberg 100% agree. i do enjoy ff14 more than WoW overall, but man is WoWs community more enjoyable ironically.
INACCURATE XENO!!!! I have used sleep in dungeons to save my entire party as black mage MORE TIMES than i’d like 😂😂😂
Especially back when gladiator had Flash aggro aoe that did zero dmg, so blm would sleep mob and everyone attacked one target so healer could dps too.
If the tank dies and the other DPS inevitably panics, Sleep is MVP for getting things under control.
Xeno could learn the difference between "ideal" and "supposed to". It's not that you're "supposed to" pull wall to wall, its just ideal because its the fastest way within the design (since we won't ever see another Wanderer's Palace type setup he described). The design is this way to lock players into the intention of clearing all of the mobs placed before moving on, not "because there is a wall so you must go wall to wall". The people who play without limits would pull the whole dungeon, including the bosses if they could, but then you'd have people forcing their way of playing onto what super casual players could handle, which I would offer is why they throw in walls. Its just better to recognize what the real intention is here by the devs instead of trying to justify how you do things or making up your own conclusion and treating it as fact.
While I think the vid is funny. I do recognize Mysterious Girl. Ran into them a year ago or so. They were giga toxic during a hunt a believe. I just remember immediately putting them on my BL and it's one of the few names on there I still recognize. So while I don't remember exactly what they did it must have left an impression on my subconscious. Doesn't excuse these 3 idiots just standing there for 10 mins either though.
I also have them on my blacklist, and I don't remember what for. I do remember it was when SoS was current content, though. I think they were basically demanding a loot drop and we wouldn't give in.
Ain't nobody right here, and props to MG for proving a point, but they're definitely not the bastion of maturity in FFXIV either.
@@JimDiggitythis 100% Both sides were in the wrong.
So.... there's something that really rubs me the wrong way about this whole discussion...
Dungeons are designed, so that you can easily do wall-to-wall pulls. But it certainly doesn't follow, that SE designed them in this way, so that everyone has to play them like that.
FF14 is just a game. We spend our free time with a game, that requires other players to play with us.
Nobody is entitled to have a tank that goes at their preferred pace. If you want that, queue up as a tank, or queue with a friend.
On the other hand of course these dungeons are easy af. If you want to single pull a mob out of a group that a mage put to sleep, sure... go ahead. But maybe do it with a group oif friends that are fine with this way of playing?
Last point: "disrespecting others time" It's just not a point! If you can run the dungeon in 10 minutes or in 12 is irrelevant, you're just playing a game anyway. In a co-op multiplayer game, where you are per se "disrespecting" your own time!
(Edit: How about we ask ourselves occasionally how we can make the game better for our fellow players, instead of trying to get it our way no matter what?)
This is why I only que dungeons as a Warrior. Dont need a healer. Dont need a DPS, just turn on some tunez and go to pound town.
tf isnt mysterious girl the same guy who caused drama in a static 😂
sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug
I just queue as Warrior so I can pull wall to wall and not even think about anything anyone else in my party is doing? Healer is refusing to heal me cause I'm going too fast? I didn't notice, I usually run this with 3 dps anyways
The reason there are so many problems in dungeons is because they are easy content. The higher the bar of entry, the less stupid or incompetent people that will be present. That being said, I can understand if the tank was fairly casual and it was their first time in the dungeon that they would want to take it slow for the first time, but to each their own.
"What if it's someone's first time?"
Well first, you can see that when you enter, and second, so? If you wipe you wipe and you just take it slower after that. People are so terrified of wipes I can't tell if it's funny or disappointing.
"why are you being so toxic?"
Dude wrote a novella about why the healer was toxic while actively refusing to do the one thing they're there to do. lol.
The "What if it's someone's first time?" always gets me. Dungeons have virtually been the same since mid ARR. I have no clue how the first DT dungeon will look, but hell, I sure know how trash mobs will go though, just the occasional AoE here and there.
This is why I queue as tank. Ready or not we're pulling all those packs, and if we die, I'll reign it in
Not even if we die. We cowabunga twice.
@@caleb4717 "Eh, we killed one or two enemies before we wiped, we should be good"
The peabrain mentality of "scholar pulling ahead = bad and toxic" but the 3 stooges looking at the scholar is not bad and totally not toxic behaviour 💀💀💀
When i was leveling tank, i never played tank before and i was a bit anxious to fail my job in the dungeon. So when someone was pulling for me, a newbie who isn't comfortable with the job yet and how much i can pull and not die, i did feel like it was rude. Now that all my tank are max lvl i'm somewhat ok with it (except if a new player is looking at the cutscene and someone pull the boss before me for example) but i still think it's just a bit rude, just learn some patience and let the tank pull.
Letting the tank pull first is a courtesy that derived from pre-ShB meta where snatching back already established aggro was actually a bit of a chore.
With that said, courtesy is only a courtesy. It doesn't justify tanks to just quit on his job when anyone doesn't follow this.
@2Shiba oh for sure i'm not trying to justify this at all. When i was beginning at tank and someone was pulling, i would just say in chat that i'm new. Now i just roll my eyes and just proceed to do my job. There is a middle ground between the two side i think, people can be a bit more patient and understanding from both side
I gave up trying to learn to tank. Even if it's "so easy" I am not allowed to get comfortable in that role and instead am forced to adapt to players who run ahead or occasionally berate me.
So I decided fuck it.
I'll just stick to healing and dps. I don't know how common my experience is, but people are rude in DF and Duty supports AI isn't competent enough to do more than single pulls.
So the avenue to actually learn tanking is limited unless you have friends who play, or have a genuine lack of performance anxiety or embarrassment. Personally, I don't come to this game to be insulted.
A lot of people who think this way in dungeons is because they are super casual players that think they are hardcore players by doing a dungeon optimally. Im pretty sure a huge percentage of players think some the duty finder roulettes is hardcore content lmao.
On another note props to that scholar for almost soloing that pack. I dont really play healer but i most certainly would have died lol.
Scholar is op heals 😁
AND they were responding. actual chad
I see this kind of incidents as a reason for why dungeons should be harder in general. Those few casuals who insists to be wrong and support his stupidity with the fact that they are STILL able to clear it should be humbled.
If harder dungeons become a thing, them shitting on others would be nothing of a drama but a simple laughstock. Whine all you like, but you ain't clearing if you keep at it 😂
I see this kind of incidents as a reason for why dungeons should be harder in general. Those few casuals who insists to be wrong and support his stupidity with the fact that they are STILL able to clear it should be humbled.
If harder dungeons become a thing, them shitting on others would be nothing of a drama but a simple laughstock. Whine all you like, but you ain't clearing if you keep at it 😂
Just for the records, no I'm not elitist. I do not consider being able to press 2 to 3 buttons for the bottomline rotation to be something to brag about.
it may be someone's first time in THIS dungeon, but what about literally every single dungeon before this dungeon... they're all the same - "new" excuse doesn't cut it.
This. Literally all trash pulls are the exact same; this isn't a boss with new mech's we're talking about here.
Why are casuals so terrified to do big pulls in the lowest difficulty content? What's the worst that could happen, 10% durability loss?? They're out here playing like its hardcore classic
I know someone like that. Usually is because she gets lost or disoriented and doesn’t have the rotation muscle memory of the buttons. She is a crafter main and she is amazing at that but doing the MSQ is painful. I just pull through and keep my mouth shut.
@@sakuraonisan2673 'doesn’t have the rotation muscle memory of the buttons' .... bro... it's 2 buttons...
@@newbielolgaga Hypothetically they could be playing RDM/BLM, which is slightly more than 2 buttons, probably a super odd choice for a ''crafter main'' though
@@sakuraonisan2673 main crafter has more abilities than a tank. Unless shes just using macro or actually doesnt do end game crafting then shes not a main crafter. Sad excuse really not to try and learn how to play a job.
Because these modern games condition players to stay bad. These modern games are not challenging, they are hardly 'games' (puzzles, challenges, skill growth) just redundant time wasters for ppl with no hobbies or skills, they don't know what fun is, they only know how to follow what they are told to do.
Back then gamers played over other hobbies because games were challenging and fun win or lose, nowadays gamers play because they have nothing else to do/ are lazy as the games become more casualized to get these ppl addicted.
Healer: pulls ahead
Dark knight: The way my Flood of shadow slips out my hand and gets all the aggro
MPK (Monster Player Kill) is against SQENIX's ToS: Player Conduct. 'Nuff said.
"What if it's someone's first time?"
Bruh, if you want to do a sightseeing run, do it with friends or use NPC supports.
Nah that's just a toxic response, if it is someone's first time they usually say it and usually play it better than people like those 3 guys with zero complaints 😂
not everyone is playing the game with friends and not anyone wants to play with shitty bots, i'm quite shocked to see so many people being crybabies about dungeon taking 3 more minutes to get completed just because the tank is not speedrunning it to please them.
What if no friends and doing a non-story dungeon which doesnt allow npc allies. Let the noobs learn, the whole reason ffxiv got popular was because everyone was nice to first timers. Now it looks like those same wow refugees are turning the community into shit.
I vividly remember wall to wall pull was not a thing back when ARR launched. It was actually discouraged. It was more of finding your own limits and dynamically adjusting to the needs of the group. Now, it's brain dead. Run until dungeon box you in. You are literally gated by sections of the dungeon. People that don't wall to wall especially in expert dungeon is just as bad as people queuing in with missing gear. What if that person is new? Again, the dungeon LITERALLY gates your progress. Even a veteran expert can't pull further than a new player.
Wall to wall pulls were absolutely a thing in ARR with Paladins casting Hallowed Ground / defensives and the party staying out of combat and tucking away from packs so that they could rez the paladin when they died lol. You could do Amdapor Keep in like 5 minutes this way.
Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that wall to wall pulling was normalized in ARR to the point that at FanFest 2014 they had a dungeon speed run competition section at the convention lol.
That has more to do with people sucking back then. Bro the average player NOW 10 years later is still like 20 to 30% lower than the bare minimum youd expect. So imagine how bad the average player was 10 years ago
i was doing wall to wall in ARR wtf
@@Rhaine037 I think OP may be referring to early levelling dungeons as he mentions launch. My memories of handling ARR dungeons, though I started in early HW, is that whether you used big pulls or not depended largely on what DPS you got. Due to TP, there was no gain in pulling big in something like Sastasha as you'd just run out of resources due to insufficient damage output if your two DPS couldn't AoE.
By level 50 though? Yeah I agree, big pulls were the norm. I'd say big pulls being the norm started in Dzamael Darkhold.
Thats because tank defensives back then where fucking horrible and healer MP burned so quickly. War tank stance didnt reduce dmg like pld, hell only defensive it had was forsight which increased phys def by 20% thats it lol and had to borrow rampart from pld by leveling it first.
Now a days even low level tank has univeral skills of rampart, reprisal, arms length, provoke.
The true test of how good healer is isn't in savage content but rather how long they can keep themselves alive in dungeon groups like this.
A good one will waste so much time.
When I 1st started tanking I was kinda aggravated by people pulling ahead, not because I felt like they were being obnoxious but because I had pretty bad tankxiety.
If I should ever not pull wall to wall nowadays (sometimes for sprout groups) and someone else grabs aggro I take it as them saying "we're good enough at the game, we got this" and grab the aggro off of them.
This. besides, the game literally has a mode for people that have anxiety to train to their hearts content. Literally trusts are in the game for this very reason. if you want to take the dungeon like you a in country club then be my guest and queue with NPCs all you want until you feel like are ready to join gen pop. The rest of us, have limited time to play and we are not ok with wasting so much time in 1 dungeon when we have to clear other roulettes, etc. These people complaining to the healer cant even fathom that its incredibly rude to not respect peoples time.
it might be annoying at first but its what help you get over that tankxiety cos you just pull back the aggro with aoe then the mobs die and you like oh that was easier than i thought it would be and you get more confident
@@sr7olsniper I agree with that to some extent. Personally I have to say way back when I first started, Tankxiety was never so much about my skills as a tank and more about the sole act of having to face ppl after coming from a game where the devs had broken their own balancing system so badly you did not wanna be caught existing as a support role player. I don't think if they had already existed trusts would have done anything for me. It was more about learning that I COULD queue for something without being insulted to the moon and back just for being there.
Also, I guess what is and isn't wasting my time highly depends on the specific context. Personally playing FF I'm pretty chilled out and rarely ever get angry or annoyed. I do like myself some smooth and fast runs in my dailies, but it doesn't always have to be the most optimized experience ever, especially not in duty or party finder.
New dungeons are piss easy, but if I go into an older dungeon and a sprout healer can't keep up, forgets to heal and/or asks if we can go slower, I don't mind, I don't see that as them rudely wasting my time. They're new, whatcha gonna do. Just as I don't mind ppl pulling mobs ahead of me if I'm having a tired day after raid and they're just quicker, as long as they don't fuck off to the Bahamas with their new pets afterwards. And even if they do, those pets will end up dead or in my range eventually anyway, so either way I'm chilling.
That said I do agree that starting fights and making the dungeon more tedious for everyone involved because of a temper tantrum over something so miniscule is rude and that that IS wasting my precious time. That energy spent on rants and passive aggressive staring at the enemies could have been spent on literally anything more productive.
@@sashacrossi This is mostly to the people that have the Diva attitude of "you pull it you tank it", or people trying to RP by not using their entire toolkit. For example you would have that one tank that refused to AOE or a RDM that refused to cast and just meleed. People like that are just 100% trolling and should be shamed for such. Also keep in mind that this is also mostly applicable to expert roulettes. Like if im doing a leveling roulette or whatever I will be a lot more accommodating because people tend to be new. However if im doing an expert and you are wasting my time, then yeah all bets are off at that point.
The Summoner's friends probably voted to kick them so that the rest could safely leave the instance without occurring s penalty (assuming they did leave since the video ends right after)
i thought so too, until i rewatched the votekick and realized the dancer (as party leader) fills the party as soon as the other dude gets kicked, they probably thought they kicked the healer and found someone to fill, which makes it even better lol
Oh my god, if thats the same Mysterious Girl I'm thinking of, they used to be sort of notorious for pretending to be a girl and catfishing people lol. Also allegedly stalking and other things, but the one i really remember is asking a friend group about them after they kept wiping a pf group doing savage reclears and someone being like "oh yeah they're a catfish". Idk a bunch of people I've met savage raiding has horror stories about them and a couple people claim Mysterious Girl bought their ucob clear. Its kinda hilarious.
lol I just raided with this person on a reclear recently and was fine. I’m laughing though about the catfish thing because when I see a name like mysterious girl, my first thought is ok you are 100% not a girl lol
I thought I was weird for recognizing the name. I ran into them a few years ago when I was a baby raider.
I did tea uwu and ucob with him and he was ok in tea but in uwu he started to show he was a dick by just being super irritable and kinda forcing me to go along with his cnj run and in ucob he swapped to ast from whm around when we had gotten to golden thus forcing me to change up my entire heal plan for no reason beside he "felt like it". i dont really like him
The way he types my immediate thought was "dude playing female character". Probably manages to catfish the same type of people who cant think through a 3 button rotation for dungeon content
uhm, so im returning to the game on a new character, and i was wanting to choose a gunbreaker.
seeing this bit of the vid 6:19, is being a gunbreaker a bad thing?
Nah. It's an In joke with Xeems and the community.
He mains warrior and is insanely good at it too, done all of the hard content does race to world first all that jazz. So personal bias memes are abound basically. Any tank is fine. play how you want
@@ZackRoome thats a relief, thank you kind ser:D
honestly as a new player and tank I was very unfamiliar with dungeon etiquette and found myself in an expert dungeon I only played one time before as a healer. so I was trying to be useful and pull more but then I died despite mits, realized the healer was struggling so I went slower. told "pull more" so I did and died, I really thought I was doing something wrong so I asked if we could go slower but they were not having it lol. I was like "you can leave if u want" and got kicked instead. oh well 😂
SCH: Let me solo it.
Any link to the original video?
Can't send to find it.
Edit: ah, unlisted
I remember doing The Wanderer's Palace Hard back in ARR going wall to wall was the best memories playing with my friends, it felt like we were doing something that was intended with all the skills we had and teaching people a more effective way of clearing
Reminds me of the time a party gave me into trouble for using holy and glare instead of being a curebot.
Had a sage in my party call me (also a sage) out for only dpsing and leaving all the healing to him.
I told him that I didn't have to hard cast heals as Sage at all. It also turned out that I was parsing - he healed less health than I did.
there's a magic button called LEAVE DUTY
average ffxiv player has an ego as huge as mt rushmore.
even if they do single pulls, just move on and get it done with, jeez.
Those guys treat this dungeon as if this was freaking Aurum Vale smh
just pop sprint as soon as you see any other player do it, and you can never have anyone pull ahead of you ever again
When I tank with a random healer, I may start small to gauge their ability to heal. The moment the healer walks ahead to pull more to me, wall-to-wall is enabled, no reason for being mad, they can clearly keep me alive.
just play a war tank/heal/dps in on package
I've MTed in WoW for high end guilds, from Wrath all the way to WoD, before going casual. When I did, I had this mentality where 'the tank pulls, end of story'. Once I went casual I slowly began to lose this, but I always maintained one thing:
If the healer is pulling, it's because they want a challenge. They saw what you grabbed, saw how you were handling it, and decided they wanted to actually have to play the game. That, or they know they're good and will pull more. I have never in the history of ever seen a healer pull that wasn't confident, jaded af from years of healing, and one DPS standing in fire away from genocide. So if the healer pulls, just shrug and grab the damned mobs. They're doing it cause they're bored, not because you're bad.
Dang i used to do small pulls after being rusty then i started watching Xenos and i just noticed how people appreciated going faster
yea same 😭
the squeak at 6:35 amongst the silence was the best part
I see some people saying long dungeons are from dps players too and while this is partially true, ill explain the dps perspective a little bit. if you do single pack pulls, this puts dps in a bit of a bind because the smartest thing to do here is blow 2 mins on pack 1 and save the one minutes for the next pack because ultimately the amount of pulled mobs will not change the kill speed that these mobs will die at, you just elongate it. so now pack 1 is 2 min cds, pack 2 will take longer with just 1 mins, pack 3 is 2 mins again, pack 4 is most likely 1 mins, each pack is gonna be roughly 2-4 mins assuming everyone isnt giga sweaty but also everyone isnt giga bad., so about 6-10 mins on one set of mobs, you then have no cd's ready for the boss, so thatll take longer as a result of this, and then you repeat this a few times. So mobbing can take 12-16 mins, bosses will be roughly 3-4 mins each, your easily looking at a 21+ minute dungeon even with the dps doing the absolute most optimal things here because of you burning their cd's doing single pulls. The game has way too much mitigation and overheal not to just wall to wall it, i can tank a dungeon on melee perfectly fine with a healer and ive duo'd them. this game even has invulns still in dungeons lol
if dps blow both 1's and 2's on pack one, that second pack is 1-2 spam for a good while, this isnt like 1 minute burst windows anymore like shb, these cd's are long as shit, and i feel thats something people often overlook.
Back then even though we didn't have walls we still would pull all the way to the boss and sleep, and if you didn't have black mage (i.e. pug) you just eyeball how much damage you can take from how many mobs.
I've always been mixed with wall to wall design. Sure, it put a high end cap on how much you could tank and how many monsters you could deal damage to at once. On the other hand, it set a standard that was very easy to understood for anyone who didn't have double digit IQ: Pull wall to wall.
Unfortunately, there's a reason why 100 is average. A **lot** of people don't pick up on that and will literally fight and die on a hill of single pulling and "you pull you tank"
Yeah people that describe wall to wall as this impossible task clearly were not around when we used to do what actually gave birth to the large pull meta. The game would have eaten them alive back then.
I remember this post lol, so many people that play this game have really fragile egos...
I remember this post too and how so many people were giving the Healer crap and for white knighting the three stack that was clearly griefing.
Next video:tank responds to Xenos commentary xffing
Personally idgaf if a tank single pulls or not.
The difference between single pulling and wall to wall has been, in my experience, a difference of 4 minutes if everyone is using their aoe like they're supposed to.
Folks still have the old dungeon mentality where the tank should pull first thats why this is still a big deal in ffxiv brother!
Did not expect the kick plot twist lmao
When I'm on tank i love it when people pull ahead and help round up mobs. Makes things go even faster.
I feel like theres more drama in dungeons than in raids. These ppl are insane
>ques Expert roulette
"But what if its their first time?"
Well I already know it isn't, you have to dungeon first to unlock Expert Roulette.
You can queue for expert roulette and be put with someone that selected the dungeon manually to do it for the first time
If you que expert roulette doesnt mean the others are als queing for Expert roulette. Especially on Patchdays you can see it frequently when you que for expert but still have couple of ppl with first time bonus.
Ah yeah, you're right actually. Though, also, don't you get a notification at the start of any dungeon/trial you are in notifying that someone is new?@@DantoriusD
@@isaactheflaming12345 jeah you get a notification.
@@isaactheflaming12345 Yeah and you can also usually tell by their load time. Though in some cases it's just someone playing on a potato xD
Honestly if you don't feel comfortable doing wall to wall pulls maybe use your words and tell the party that.
If you don’t feel comfortable make a party of 4 friends or trust but don’t queue up
@@Link-kr2bcOr, wild thought, people can respect each other and not impose stuff in others and accept to work together. You don't NEED to wall to wall nor to go slow, make it clear and by a miracle people might list
I'm a tank/healer that prefers to go slow simply because I prefer it so and I make it loud and clear.
@@Nimi450this. Not wanting to W2W does not trump wanting to W2W and the opposite is true as well. It's like most things that are left up to large we groups to decide, majority rules. If the majority wants to go slow go slow. If the majority wants to go fast go fast. You are not the end all of what is done in FF14 nor is your want and desire more important than any others. Get along with people. Why be the problem when you can easily just go along. That's what the best, most liked and happy players do. If you are sooo good, then adjust to the groups play style. Or, stop doing duty finder and just play with friends or FC members.
Pulling 1 pack in expert roulette is bad manners.
you know who are the true chads of dungeons?
Sprout healers that say "It's okay, you can pull everything :)"
A lot of those healers are traps. By that I mean, they are experienced players on alts xD
@@SoulReaperIsHere I'm guilty of this haha
glad the squeaky boom arm makes an appearance
I have had this happen to me once. It was a two stack who was the healer and the tank and I pulled ahead of the tank. The people literally held the dungeon hostage they wouldn't move forward, wouldn't kick me, wouldn't vote disband. In the end I just went AFK to run the timer out because I had all day.
While i understand not wanting to put up with toxic casuals, the amount of sweatiness needs to chill out too.
Not everyone is at the same skill level. As it was said, dungeons are the casual content, so to act upset that you will be playing with casuals from time to time is just odd.
And while I agree that tanks can easily handle more than one mob at a time, not every tank is that confident in their own skill, or even aware of how skilled the healer they are playing with is.
Not to mention, certain dungeons previously have instilled in them a fear and/or respect of underestimating mobs.
If they are new, they literally have no idea if the enemies in this dungeon are going to be hitting them like the msq roullette, or like the more punishing pulls in bardams mettle.
They might want to take it slow to get a feel for the dungeon, and not have some sweaty dps or healer making things needlessly difficult by trying to constantly push them and back-seat tank. Thats just annoying.
For all you know, the tank is taking the dungeon slow because they have some kind of disability.
Maybe they dont wish to divulge that information to strangers, maybe they want to play with friends and not npc's for this part in the story.
The issue is nuanced.
Some tanks are indeed needlessly casual, and should try to push themselves more and be more open to actual constructive criticism or else just play with the npcs, but not EVERY casual tank.
Just like its okay to try to encourage a tank pull more by asking them to.
Running ahead is typically seen as rude, and rightfully so. Alot of tanks roll with it and in my case even appreciate it as its a few less hits i have to take before i pick up the aggro when tanking. But it can be very chaotic and anxiety inducing to a newer/inexperienced/ disabled tank.
If your goal is to speed run dungeons, try to run it with friends, play the tank yourself, or at least ask if the pace can be increased.
Or encourage them. let them know, "hey, this dungeon is easy, feel free to pull wall to wall, i got your back" or something like that.
Communicate. Dont just play how you want and expect others to bend to your playstyle.
This goes for casuals too, but more towards the sweaties because they have a greater capacity for adjustment.
A sweaty can handle a slower pace, a casual typically can't handle a breakneck pace.
Thats why it's on the sweaty to be a bit more understanding.
Wait, people don’t big pull in dungeons?
In current year?
I mean, I can understand not big pulling on under 50 dungeons, since you don’t have many cooldowns, or some classes don’t get their AOE until way late (cough cough DRAGOON cough cough,) but after level 50, you best start pulling more than 1 pack of mobs, or people are gonna look at you funny.
One of my few joys in life in endgame dungeons is wall-to-wall pulling, popping Bloodwhetting, and laughing at the pack of mobs that can’t kill me.
tbh most pre-50 dungeons are piss easy to wall to wall since mobs die so fast, even with just the tank using AoEs. It's only when you get up to about Stone Vigil to Aurum Vale that pulls are even slightly threatening.
Communicating if you’re going to pull big or small isn’t that hard of a thing to do either though. If they don’t communicate, just go big. If you have a problem that they’re pulling small, just tell them that. If they don’t change, fine whatever not that big of a deal, vote kick them, blacklist them, but no need to be extra.
Absolutely nailed it
This 100%
I don't understand why ppl who have been playing for years, don't sit back and let new players, actually enjoy the game, learn mechanics and roles.
I know I'm older, and I've been playing online games for longer than some gamers have been alive, but...what is so wrong about going slower in a dungeon?
Do you have somewhere to be in 10 minutes? If so, get off the game and go do your irl stuff.
I've only been playing for a little over a year, and some dungeons I know like the back of my hand...but if I see a little sprout (new) or a flower (returning) I ask if they want me to go wall to wall, or would they prefer 2 groups at a time, etc...
If I'm healing and that's all I'm doing to keep a tank and group alive...then you are pulling more than you can handle, my friend...not everyone can do wall to wall, and it's okay.
What's toxic is when the person (not a tank) decides that the tank isn't doing their job and then starts pulling for them...I'm sorry but that is rude and if you think it's okay to do that, to a new player, than you are the problem.
I didn't get in the video that it was only level 90 being discussed. I was talking about newish players (lvl 15 to 50ish). Or you know, the people who have never done a specific dungeon before and you get your little xp bonus because of that. Or a lvl 60 gunbreaker who has never played their character as a tank (maybe they've only done dps, or heals)
they just photoshopped those job icons in afterwards it's okay
Tanking is very easy. You just look at your healer when everyone is loaded in:
If he pops sprint at the beginning - you go fast
If he runs - you go normal
If he stands in the starting area, looking around at the scenery - you go slow
When I do a expert roulette I just queue in as a warrior and heal myself
If someone pulls before me as a tank, i just keep going cause only a dumb dps would pull ahead and not run to the tank after to remove their aggro
This is something i really hate when i tank. Dont care if they doing dps the one grp while running towards the second one but i freaking hate it when they pull aggro and then running away from me.
Crazy how people really don't like that you steal their " job " in a dungeon xD
It's like they think a tank is needed when pretty much every role have the same weight on dungeons maybe beside bosses
Imagine if healers would stop playing because a tank or melees are using tools that heals them (':
It's unironically the tanks playing with their e-gf who feel emasculated and start bitching cus they aren't allowed to be the gigachad god like in msq
@@bc9554 probably yeah, hard to be aware of all cases xD
It does bug me when someone's pulling ahead of me, even as I'm going about as fast as the game will allow. Like it doesn't change anything, it doesn't really affect the outcome, other than it being more annoying to pull some stragglers off someone sometimes, depending on the situation, but it just feels like, let me do my job lol, like I see the enemies, I will get them, I'm not going slow, so just let me do what I'm supposed to do. But usually I'll still just keep quiet and go about it, it's just annoying when I know I'm not going slow, it's like their saying "fuck you go faster."
That said everyone in this video just came out the gate aggressive at each other, so this was just never going to go another way lol
Yes exactly
Start dungeon then active tank stance if it isn't on and cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill boss. Cast sprint, pull every mob right before boss and kill mobs. Kill last boss.
Anything other than that as a tank is bad, it's not that hard.
EDIT: Forgot to say kill the mobs
This kind of thing happened to me. Once I was a RDM in a lvl 90 dungeon with a paladin. I did too much damage on the first trash each time so I would get back aggro and he would berate me about pulling without being a tank.
They waited until the last zone of the dungeon before kicking me, I blacklisted them all.
When I play as a DPS in a dungeon I always end up taking some aggro or taking a whole TB at some point it's annoying. But playing as a tank became boring too.
People get this butt hurt if you're a tank and pull wall to wall. i've gotten kicked a couple times cause i pulled the mobs and the people would wait around and wouldn't heal me so they could vote kick. FFXIV has the worst playerbase in MMOs period. 93% don't know how to play the game and the ones that do are afraid to say anything cause they'll get banned by mass report.
Took the words right out of my mouth. This game has the best raiding on the market. But literally the worst everything else
No seriously the weekly loot lock out only being able to have one each blue item making have multi class bis impossible unless its cross role. The tome cap. Grinding ather pool for days. Grinding the garbo low pevels in eurika and bohja.
This game has so many garbage systems put in place to make you not want to play it. And if you ignore all of that. And try to just play. Unless you're in savage or an ult the content is so brain dead easy you dont even need to be tabbed in to win
I remember, back in ShB, I think it was on the day 5.2 launched. The tank pulled wall to wall, it was obviously everyone's first time, including them. Both DPS were absolutely FURIOUS, calling the tank a toxic elitist for doing this on release day even though all dungeons have been virtually the same since 2.1 released. It is important to note that absolutely nobody came close to die. They even went as far as claiming this was rude for the healer, which made me laugh so hard since that healer was me and all I did is tell the tank "screw them just pull everything". One of them left. I'll never force it on a tank that doesn't want to, however i'll be rolling my eyes. And I'll be rolling them so hard you could see my optical nerves.
People need to stop associating wall to wall to hardcore gameplay. That's not even close to be challenging, you're not even doing stuff differently, you just have more monsters to hit. That's it. Dungeons have been designed that way, mobs are not doing anything meaningful except throwing out the occasional AoE.
Do yourself a favor; transfer to JP.
As a tank, I generally test the healer by pulling EVERYTHING between spawn to the first bosses wife's bedroom.
If we wipe I'll adjust, after one or two more fails. If someone pulls ahead it means I missed a few or the healer is confident enough not to let me develop a floor fetish.
The only time I don't try to slam my nuts against the bosses face in record timing is if I'm learning the dungeon or I'm just beyond lazy. Some adds/dungeons have weird mechanics.
I think I've randomly seen Mysterious Girl in a city-state, though with my constant DC hops, I don't remember if I met them on Aether or Crystal.
The SCH just casually killing the large pull on their own and responding in chat is pure chef's kiss. If a healer can do it alone, where's the problem? The vote kick was also pretty hilarious. Definitive proof that these kind of people are just not paying attention, assuming this wasn't staged. (Please don't be staged, I need to know this actually happened haha)
"Why do so many people have issues in dungeons?"
Because like 90% of people who play videos absolutely suck and/or simply don't care enough to get better.
This is what invariably happens when you cater to casuals, and tragically there's no sense bitching about it. If you're lucky, some constructive criticism may actually get through and help them and everything will be good after.
* Edited for a typo.
But it's probably best to just prepare for the worst and keep your head down.
God I miss how XI filtered people and since there was almost no instanced content, your reputation on your server actually mattered.
That reminds me how your reputation mattered a bit until late HW when cross world PF was implemented. Before that, outside of DF, you were limited to you own server if you wanted to run stuff. People would remember you if you did good or bad.
As the game went on, pretty much post heavensward and the vault, they had to dumb down the dungeons bc apparently it was too much for their casual playerbase which is like obviously the majority. Basically got to the point to where eos could solo heal the dungeons and that's not an over exaggeration. Being able to tank kite and kill everything while being able to type is funny and not surprising for a good healer. They need to hurry that sht up and help and stop complaining or we're gonna be here for 70 mins to prove a point.
Okay, I can totally understand people being upset if a DPS pulls extra mobs. It's entirely possible that either the tank or healer can't deal with a full wall-to-wall pull, or even that both of them can't - whether that's due to low skill, bad equipment, or even just being uncomfortable doing large pulls.
If the tank pulls everything and the healer can't keep them alive - again, for whatever reason - then the tank should recognize that and slow the pulls down.
If the HEALER pulls everything, that means they are 100% confident they can keep everyone alive. NO ONE should be complaining if the healer pulls extra mobs.
Healer was rude in chat and that was only what they put in the video.
In this case i kinda dont favor neither of them, both the healer and the party suck
Like i dont care about the healer pulling ahead of the tank
But if the healer who's pulling just replies to the complaint with '' small PP energy'' i feel that's the rudeness of the situation
I dont think they're calling the healer rude for pulling , but the healer is just constantly trying to provoke the entire party
''Small PP energy'' ''Oh im sorry did i upset your boyfriend?''
I personally don't care about these insults, i'll be like ''Look who's talking lmao'' but i also know if someone criticized me pulling and i respond with an insult im just starting the fight, i feel like if the healer was like ''Look im just trying to get the dungeon faster'' it would've been like ''Just let us know'' ''k whatever'' it would've ended
The healer's responses are just starting this whole argument and fight and im really not on their side anymore.
But the party also just following and not being the bigger people despite being in a stack,
This whole party was seems like gasoline and a cigar about to blow up regardless
While I don’t really believe that dungeons were designed specifically to pull wall to wall, they were designed with that option in mind. If you don’t wanna go balls to the wall, go in with a Trust if its your first time or go with friends who are willing to take it slow. And if you ever encounter this kind of shit, just leave the instance lol. I get both sides, but I ain’t got the time to sit here and argue. I’ll take the penalty and go outside and touch grass for 30 min.
Its mysterious girl
So idgaf
Theyre annoying as hellllll
I don't care is people pull for me, only if they come back to me.
The only time I actually get annoyed is when someone knows I've run out of sprint, runs ahead, pulls all the enemies and keeps running.
I had a Sam constantly do this to me almost dying a couple time, I didn't yell at him I just told him to chill out with that, I didn't need his help.
This is why I always queue on Warrior. Don't have to worry about whether the tank will wall-to-wall pull. Don't have to worry about healers not healing, because I can heal myself. Don't have to really worry about DPS because the only thing they do in most cases is make the dungeon go slightly faster.
Never have to stress about how bad or toxic other players are by making such easy content painful if you have zero dependence on them.
I think the core of this problem is that many healers have "main character syndrome" and tanks do too. A tale as old as time.
Preface, I'm a tank player, have been in FFXIV for 8 years. I do not mind when people pull ahead, it's whatever.
Is there a source the streamer reacted to?
Two things.
As Xeno is well aware, dungeons are not designed for players like him. They literally exist to supplement the story. They provide a backdrop/scenic area - 99% of dungeon design is aesthetic. That's it. If it's someone's first time in a dungeon and they want to pull one at a time to enjoy it, I think that's reasonable. So one of the players comments about "what if it's their first time" is 100% valid. That Xeno doesn't understand this is not surprising. He is literally a story skipper. Which is totally fine, but this really isn't in his lane. This is a problem with the roulette system being encouraged for endgame raiders for a lazy tome grind while simontaneously consisting of dungeons that are the opposite of hardcore. It's bad game design, these players shouldn't be forcibly pushed into the same game mode.
Second, the three stack, surprisingly, is actually being very polite. The healer is being rude and condescending. I don't really care whose in the right and whose in the wrong, respect and decency always trumps disrespect.
I just don't understand why people queue into a roulette which is a random map with random players and then complain about the randomness of the circumstances. If you want to do the dungeon fast and efficient, queue with your fc or friends. Or just don't queue. You don't need roulettes for anything, there are other ways to level and get tomes that are actually more efficient. If you don't want to deal with other mentalities, don't queue in the player roulette....
Pull one at a time to enjoy what? They're called trash mobs for a reason. The golems in Aetherfont are literally identical to the pirates in Sastasha. There's no content to enjoy or respect, it's explicitly just fat to chew. You actually get *less* gameplay by single pulling because then every ability on the entire party's bars becomes obsolete through the sheer, uncomplicated weakness of the trash. If you want to take your time and look around you're not going to hear anyone complaining about waiting for you at the next pull, so just kill the enemies and do your thing after.
Lmfaooooo on that first point. THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT TRUSTS ARE *THERE* FOR! Trust NPC's give you additional lines of dialogue during the battles! WTF do you MEAN, single-pulling in an expert roulette has value for story-loving folks???? That's just total BS. There's never any value in a player-party for that playstyle, there's more value in a trust-party for that playstyle. I say this as somebody who adores FF14's story. You're literally breaking immersion by taking your time when you consider that you're supposed to be much, MUCH stronger than all this "chump change" TRASH, especially when MOST dungeons have a sense of urgency around their story! You're going THROUGH it to GET somewhere and STOP something! So GOGOGO!
Second point, yeah wtf is up with that Scholar's attitude though. Literally just chill out and relax. The SCH already knows they're not going to be dying anytime soon. Literally just gotta be more stubborn than the group and chill out, and they'll realize that they're wasting their own time by being pathetic whining babies that can't handle a couple extra weak as fuck TRASH mobs here or there.
@@vuerenkuraenir Trusts are irrelevant in the context of a 3Q as this implies they want to play together. And some people just dont like them for whatever reason. Not to mention duty support/trust has never been brought up by Xeno and is not his argument at all and therefore not what I am contesting.
@@sird31mos The thing you are completely missing is I am not disagreeing with your mentality. That's also how I play. I just don't assert my own mentality onto other people when I volentarily enter into a gamemode that queues me with random people that may have completely different mentalities, whether or not I understand or relate to them. This is basically my entire point. You CHOOSE volentarily to enter into a gamemode that advertises that you have no idea who you're going to match with. And then you complain about how they play the game. No one is forcing you to do this, this is literally what you have chosen to do with your time, and you're fantasizing that what you queued into is something that it plainly isnt. They don't have to have a point to justify for their behavior, you choose to queue with them despite not knowing anything about them.
I'm not sure why people have such a hard time thinking outside of their own perspectives. Your ideology and mentality makes sense to you, why do you just assume that it is transferable to every other person?
You're talking an awful lot about "perspective" for someone whose thesis is that anyone caught complaining is automatically wrong and anyone actively avoiding the game systems is automatically correct.
You don't fuck with Scholars bro, it takes an entirely different breed of genes to fuckin play that class 😂 that scholar really be pullin all mobs, soloing them, managing aetherflows, WHILE TYPING!! There is a reason why their job icon is a pair of balls bro.
This has been a issue in duty finder dungeons for soooooo long, i am glad someone is finally talking about it. As a tank, it doesnt matter if people grab adds ahead of you sprint, gap close and get that aggro. its your job.