I spent a bit of helmet-fire a few years back contacting ex F-86, F-84, and F-100 USAFE cold war pilots to ask about the details of the *other* mode of LABS, where you essentially toss and run without the "idiot-loop" common to B-47, and the early nuke deliveries from the fighters mentioned above. This is the "toss mode" which the US F-4s had, and which Israel was rather upset that their versions did not include (until some horse-trading acquired it). Basically a 4G wings-level pull to some angle like 40 degrees somewhere between the IP and the actual target, where an auto-release would occur. A timer was involved (and a very glam piratical eye-patch that was shiny on the front). The fellows recounted that the whole tac-nuke-delivery mess was particularly weird and terrifying, especially at night and in bad weather. And they had to practice it regularly over Europe, mostly Germany. This piece of avionics history is nigh to being lost to the sands of time, so I though it worth trying to preserve by talking to some elder fighter pilots while they could still remember clearly. TL;DR...precious little real data is available, even from the blokes who trained on it. Somewhere there's a (now) un-classified "special" weapons delivery manual, though! BTW, there is definitely a patent for something extremely close to the LABS in the F-100. It's a great read. "Simple to understand, yet completely credible and convincing!" - Dr Strangelove.
I didn't know the Sabre had an actual aiming for toss bombing, that's really interesting. Though I really do feel for the first guy who had to go up and test the prototype system. That boy had some big brass ones.
I don't know if LABS was ever tested with live nukes. I think not. Certainly with concrete-filled "practice shapes" though. Everybody practiced with those to qualify.
Modders have hacked custom weapons into DCS in the past. I wonder if at least a realistically-sized expanding compression-wave could be done? A flash and dirty great mushroom would probably be a first in combat flight-simulators.
Great Video keep it up,... it's bit like who ever came up with this idea to bomb.., then it hits you... This is what happen when those in charge let non pilot figure out how to drop bombs ha ha ha CHEERS!
Sounds like a hell of a lot of work for minimal advantage - you are already flying right over the target so why not just drop the bombs wings level and set the fuze delay to something big enough to allow you to vacate the area (3-5 seconds ?). Now if you were dropping a nuke I could see the advantage !
How the hell does the LABS calculator know how far away your target is to calculate release? Were you supposed to literally fly right over the target when doing this in real life?
@@MrEKG123 It was the only way (at the time) to put a nuclear weapon on target from low altitude and still have time to get away. Pilots did call it the "idiot's loop" though...
@@jasonosmond6896 Seems terrifying that you'd have to be on the deck and pressing the weapons release button for a nuke, hoping you and the electronics did everything right and the bomb doesn't release immediately.
![[DCS] F-86 SABRE Air-to-Air Missiles](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pysMoVGTLZc/mqdefault.jpg)
I spent a bit of helmet-fire a few years back contacting ex F-86, F-84, and F-100 USAFE cold war pilots to ask about the details of the *other* mode of LABS, where you essentially toss and run without the "idiot-loop" common to B-47, and the early nuke deliveries from the fighters mentioned above. This is the "toss mode" which the US F-4s had, and which Israel was rather upset that their versions did not include (until some horse-trading acquired it). Basically a 4G wings-level pull to some angle like 40 degrees somewhere between the IP and the actual target, where an auto-release would occur. A timer was involved (and a very glam piratical eye-patch that was shiny on the front). The fellows recounted that the whole tac-nuke-delivery mess was particularly weird and terrifying, especially at night and in bad weather. And they had to practice it regularly over Europe, mostly Germany.
This piece of avionics history is nigh to being lost to the sands of time, so I though it worth trying to preserve by talking to some elder fighter pilots while they could still remember clearly.
TL;DR...precious little real data is available, even from the blokes who trained on it. Somewhere there's a (now) un-classified "special" weapons delivery manual, though!
BTW, there is definitely a patent for something extremely close to the LABS in the F-100. It's a great read.
"Simple to understand, yet completely credible and convincing!" - Dr Strangelove.
I didn't know the Sabre had an actual aiming for toss bombing, that's really interesting. Though I really do feel for the first guy who had to go up and test the prototype system. That boy had some big brass ones.
lols yes
I don't know if LABS was ever tested with live nukes. I think not. Certainly with concrete-filled "practice shapes" though.
Everybody practiced with those to qualify.
Man it would be nutty to see a saber tossing nukes in dcs
One dislike is from person who was waiting for nuclear blast.
lols I figured some nerds might see the "atomic" and watch due to that.
Modders have hacked custom weapons into DCS in the past. I wonder if at least a realistically-sized expanding compression-wave could be done?
A flash and dirty great mushroom would probably be a first in combat flight-simulators.
Yeah but when it’s a nuke, is 200 ft, even a quarter mile, that far off the target? Lol
Exactly. That's why it's used for nukes, 200 ft isn't going to matter!
Yep... plenty accurate enough for what it needed to do.
Horseshoes, hand grenades, and gravity tac-nukes delivered by fighters. Close is close enough.
Great Video keep it up,... it's bit like who ever came up with this idea to bomb.., then it hits you...
This is what happen when those in charge let non pilot figure out how to drop bombs ha ha ha
CHEERS!
It works. Here is the system in action. ua-cam.com/video/DpJUo-Fylas/v-deo.html
Sounds like a hell of a lot of work for minimal advantage - you are already flying right over the target so why not just drop the bombs wings level and set the fuze delay to something big enough to allow you to vacate the area (3-5 seconds ?). Now if you were dropping a nuke I could see the advantage !
well this procedure is for nukes. cap just used conventionnal bombs cause there's no nuke in DCS
@sleveille4 there are nukes in DCS. The MiG-21 has both of them. Rn-24 and Rn-28
Same procedure of Mig 15 .....!!!!?
How the hell does the LABS calculator know how far away your target is to calculate release? Were you supposed to literally fly right over the target when doing this in real life?
Yes. The system was a simple analog computer designed to put the bomb on the spot over which the pilot depressed the weapons release.
@@jasonosmond6896 Seems like quite a crackpot scheme. I'm not sure I'd be too happy about it as a pilot!
@@MrEKG123 It was the only way (at the time) to put a nuclear weapon on target from low altitude and still have time to get away. Pilots did call it the "idiot's loop" though...
@@jasonosmond6896 Seems terrifying that you'd have to be on the deck and pressing the weapons release button for a nuke, hoping you and the electronics did everything right and the bomb doesn't release immediately.
Want to see it in action? ua-cam.com/video/DpJUo-Fylas/v-deo.html
Hi grim i want to play with you one tim