Whilst I have yet to have the skills needed to cut a mortice by hand I found this very informative and I get the feeling that some sort of "Awe" inspiring build is not too far away. Thanks Ben
Cheers Alex! I’ve an idea but I can’t come up with a finished design to get started, I need a new computer monitor stand, i want to make something organic looking…
I have several of Rob's IBC Mortise chisels, and I absolutely love them - and his bench chisels are just as nice. I would say that outside of the Blue Spruce chisels, these are the most expensive of the Narex/Lie-Nielson/Veritas group. That being said, they are certainly an heirloom tool that will amaze and reward the keeper/user for generations
The taper is definitely a deliberate design to prevent binding in deep mortices. I've got one that is parallel and it is an antique from my great grandfathers mill, so probably well over 100 years old. It's hard to use because it's really long, but the steel takes a razor edge and lasts for ages. Only problem is it's 3/8 inch and I hardly ever make mortices that size.
Cosman’s favourite bench chisels are made by IBC Canada. The chisels are superb quality. Brian at IBC tells me that the price of these chisels is long forgotten while the quality and performance last forever. Hopefully he’s right because my wife won’t let me forget. 🥴You can save a little by purchasing additional chisels without handles to complete the set you need.🇨🇦👍👨🦳 That’s the way I’m going.
Blue Spruce tools released a set of mortise chisels about a month ago, and have a very similar design to the IBC's (removable blade, and parallel sides). They are surprisingly a good deal when compared to Veritas, IBC, and LN, even after the intro sale ended.
That’s news to me, never heard of them till now. I didn’t see them when looking, they weigh in at £84 a chisel that’s cheap for what they are! Glad I said Euro chisels don’t come parallel or this would of been embarrassing 😂 they do look very nice for sure! 340 quid for a coping saw though 😂
@@HewAndAwe Yeah, some of their stuff is quite expensive. They recently dropped their chisel prices to be more in line with LN and Veritas too, which helps, but they do have the benefit of absolutely zero prep work required. Razor sharp out of the box, and backs are absolutely flat, as well as mirror polished. Great performance, as well as time saved in prep work!
@@garygosewisch3901 yeah I think it takes about 4 weeks after order. The popular items can take 6-8, though I did see they eliminated a fair amount of the custom options, so maybe that helps speed things up
While I always regrind my mortisers to square (with a tiny hint of relief), it is my opinion that it's not the issue of the taper of the bevel that is the problem. I restore chisels and planes, and have done hundreds of chisels and maybe 50 or so planes to machinist level tolerances (at least the parts that counts). The vintage mortise chisels always skewed (I've yet to encounter a perfect one) from Addis to marples to sorby, no exceptions. The Narex is much more consistent, but like you, I have a hard time cutting straight with them. That said I've noticed that some cheaper chisels cuts very well always, especially the modern blue chips that might as well be firmer chisels. This got me thinking that the issue really isn't the relief. I feel like the following are true (at least anecdotally to me). 1. The problem is far more likely a slightly off-square cutting edge. Compounded with the thicker bevel, you will get a chisel that always want to slide one way or another. 2. The extra large handle is also an issue, causing your mallet to strike it a bit off 3. Fully squared chisels area also a problem if your bevel is skewed. 4. Fully squared chisels can be problematic if you don't have a couple thou of relief by having an ever so slightly thinner back end. 5. Much of the times, even on good honing jigs, cinching the jig causes a beveled chisel to tilt off of the flat mounting. This is probably the root of what you are seeing above.
Yeah I’d agree with that, defo the handle. I have some vintage mortise chisels and the handle is like a samurai sord handle. I really liked how much more compact the Robs version is for cabinet joinery. The tapered side I mentioned was more for those that can’t get a squared grind on their mortise chisels using a jig as in that’s the reason why.
Thanks for the info. I am currently looking for a set of mortice chiesel so this video has came at the right time for me. The points that you made about the sides tappering in is something i have never considered before. The only downfall on the ibc mortice chiesels is the price, for the price of one ibc chiesel you would get a full set of narex chiesels but now i know why.
Remember you’ll have to sharpen them by hand the narex, well any euro mortise chisels 😏 if you buy Robs, you’ll need to buy them one by one too, I’d suggest you only need 3, and me personally I’d start with the 3/8” - 1/2" 3/8" and 1/4" all in. Shame he doesn’t make them in metric 🤦🏻♂️
BEN you should look out some old 2nd hand chisels I got some good old firmer chisels with Sheffield steel. Hold and edge well enough and motice chisel is flat sided as are all the firmer chisels.
I have some OLD ones but they’re not nice and chunky as Bobs chisels, they’re more like beater chisels but square sides, does that sound like what you’ve mentioned?
@@HewAndAwe I got some new ash handles for mine. And carefully sharpened them up. 1 tang split 1 handle. They are sharp and hold an edge well with a single bevel
3:25 ...'excuse my crippled fingers'.. I type this with bandaged digits after stuffing my right hand into the table saw blade 3 weeks ago. Lost the end of my thumb and cut tendon and bone of the middle finger. They'll never work quite right again. Gutted ..though it's good to see how you can adapt and still do your thing. I'd love to know what happened to you and how you healed up👍
Sorry to hear this Jules! I’ve never felt pain like ever again, akin to giving birth I was told 😬 a while ago I got into a fight, he had a knife… rather my hand than into my gut! Unfortunately when I came out of the first operation I clenched my hand up pulling all the tendons apart again, I didn’t know this had happened. For a week the physio kept trying to get me to move my fingers but I kept telling her I couldn’t, then went in for another op. But by then it was to late, tendons have to be repaired in less than 7 days or you’re toast. I can’t move the tip of my middle finger it’s stuck in a hook like figure, limited movement in two other fingers. The hooked middle finger keeps the ladies happy, comes in handy you could say …and I can still wank with it, so all is not lost. This was 27 years ago. It’s a bit embarrassing if I flip someone the bird, need to learn to use the other hand 🤦🏻♂️ Took about 6 months, loads of physio. I also lucked out that my finger stuck in that shape to still be able to draw and write so said I’m not having a third opp cause that could of made it worse and permanently straight. Hope you heal fast!!!! Do miss the morphine though 😂
@@HewAndAwe ...and there's me assuming yours was probably also a table saw injury! I was told it wasn't viable to repair the tendon; too much damaged/missing, so I'm hoping to have more surgery down the road to fuse the 2 little finger bones into a modified wife-pleaser (yes, it was that very finger that got hit!)... good job I have a high level of ambidextrosity🤣As for my thumb, the repair looks horrific and they permanently removed the nail too, for some reason..time will tell how that turns out. When i got home from hospital I was straight into the workshop to say hello to my table saw, tell it I still loved it, pick little dried bits of me off the table and cut a bit of wood, one-handed; just to get back on the horse, as it were. Then I was googling images of table saw injuries, just for context, to realise, despite feeling sorry for myself that my injuries were fuck all in comparison to many, especially as I'm left-handed so my dominant hand is fine! Thanks so much for the reply and your kind words.. yep the morphine was good in hospital but codeine and beer at home was better!
Nor me mate, I was like can I remember how! I recon most are in the same boat too. Must say though speed wise I’d bet it’s a close cal by hand and machine mortiser (festool domino not included) in that thought. But then would win the race once set up I think.
@@HewAndAwe Doing anything by hand is pretty damned therapeutic, but therapy doesn't put food on the table... In fact no food on the table will possibly lead to therapy... Regardless, awesome tools are... well... Awesome. Thanks for the vid.
I purchased the Lie Neilson DT with a custom handle from him back when he was representing them at the wood show circuit in early 2000. This an excellent saw but doesn’t have the extra fine teeth at the start on the blade. I have no issue by starting with a couple of draw pulls as a guide. If I was looking for another back saw, I would be taking a look at Veritas. Tool prices are crazy so shop around. 🇨🇦👍👨🦳
I got Luban mortise chisels from Ali express.. square sides and you can set flat on stone like inc or lie Nelson.. 60 us dollars with shipping.. there pretty good and got horn beam handles
Great stuff! Your channel is one of my favorites - probably because of the humor. Question: What's your take on the mortise chisel shaft not being solid all the way through? In the back of my mind, I'm thinking "Won't the pounding on the chisel eventually start to degrade the threads and potentially create an issue with all the parts not staying together tightly?" I was looking at the Blue Spruce chisels, a bit costly, but maybe the IBC requires another look.
Thank Glenn for the compliment! 🍻🍻🍻 IBC are highly regarded! I don’t see it being an issue I think the slot there was to tighten something up, the spruce versions have a notch instead. The threads are a fine pitch like on cars, in my mind that’s the best way. The spruce though are a nice price!!! If you’re particularly worried you could always use some thread lock, or even hairspray works. I m not worried though. If it happens I’ll be sure to say in one of my vids.
Yeah that’s the idea, but then you’ve lost what’s important to get the cut right as you don’t have a square chisel to help you cut plumb and square. Not to mention you can’t use a jig to sharpen them 🤦🏻♂️
I use a regular old beater chisel for mortises and I'm no craftsman by any means, but I never managed to commit something like the gash at 8:26. Would mind filming the process? I am kinda curious.
That wasn’t with h to be eater chisel that was the narex, because the chisel isn’t parallel it kept twisting- I just can’t get on with it and they have to be sharpened by hand to which makes it even worse. With a beater chisel I’d cut a mortise just like I would with the Bob Coseman chisel, just takes longer and not as a clean.
@@HewAndAwe I know it was with narex, and i would still be interested in seeing it. I have no dog in the fight as brands go, Narex used to be worth it before the putin tax hit, but now they went down with QC. Its just that even with a beveled chisel, a half decent mortice isnt a problem, it surprised me that with a dedicatex pig sticker like that narex had such result, even when not completely tuned in
Just so we're crystal, every European chisel is tapered, this in my opinion doesn't help the cause bar you dont get the chisel stuck but then you wouldnt if you were doing it right, Id rather have a chisel thats square and parallel which gives me way better chance of a square plumb mortise - not to mention you cant use a jig to sharpen them, you have to sharpen by hand.
I don’t hear many say that dude.. words I use might not mean anything to you cause you’re not British, like if I said “harry on the boat” I bet you wouldn’t have a clue what I was talking about 😇
@@HewAndAwe I learn American English (I'm from Chile), so that´s why. But I watched it a couple of times and I was ok (the funny parts alone are worth it 😄).
www.youtube.com/@HewAndAwe/videos
Whilst I have yet to have the skills needed to cut a mortice by hand I found this very informative and I get the feeling that some sort of "Awe" inspiring build is not too far away. Thanks Ben
Cheers Alex! I’ve an idea but I can’t come up with a finished design to get started, I need a new computer monitor stand, i want to make something organic looking…
Always informative and funny! Thanks Ben!
Hey Madonna, thanks for the compliment I hope you had a wicked weekend!!! 🍻🍻🍻
Nice one Ben. Well explained.😊
Thanks mate! 🍻😊🍻
Funny...I'm laughing while writing this. Good on you mate.
Cheers dude, that made me smile! Thanks for watching 🍻🍻🍻
Great video Ben loved it!!!
Cheers buddy, hope you had a nice weekend! 🍻🍻🍻
I have several of Rob's IBC Mortise chisels, and I absolutely love them - and his bench chisels are just as nice. I would say that outside of the Blue Spruce chisels, these are the most expensive of the Narex/Lie-Nielson/Veritas group. That being said, they are certainly an heirloom tool that will amaze and reward the keeper/user for generations
Yeah it’s gonna take a long time to grind them to nothing!
The taper is definitely a deliberate design to prevent binding in deep mortices. I've got one that is parallel and it is an antique from my great grandfathers mill, so probably well over 100 years old. It's hard to use because it's really long, but the steel takes a razor edge and lasts for ages. Only problem is it's 3/8 inch and I hardly ever make mortices that size.
Is that because it’s imperial, or literary the size of you know what I mean? 🤦🏻♂️
Rob Cosman 1 of my favourite u tubers .it’s all in the detail with him.
He does whittle on a bit though, pun intended 😆
Cosman’s favourite bench chisels are made by IBC Canada. The chisels are superb quality. Brian at IBC tells me that the price of these chisels is long forgotten while the quality and performance last forever. Hopefully he’s right because my wife won’t let me forget. 🥴You can save a little by purchasing additional chisels without handles to complete the set you need.🇨🇦👍👨🦳 That’s the way I’m going.
Blue Spruce tools released a set of mortise chisels about a month ago, and have a very similar design to the IBC's (removable blade, and parallel sides). They are surprisingly a good deal when compared to Veritas, IBC, and LN, even after the intro sale ended.
That’s news to me, never heard of them till now. I didn’t see them when looking, they weigh in at £84 a chisel that’s cheap for what they are! Glad I said Euro chisels don’t come parallel or this would of been embarrassing 😂 they do look very nice for sure! 340 quid for a coping saw though 😂
@@HewAndAwe Yeah, some of their stuff is quite expensive. They recently dropped their chisel prices to be more in line with LN and Veritas too, which helps, but they do have the benefit of absolutely zero prep work required. Razor sharp out of the box, and backs are absolutely flat, as well as mirror polished. Great performance, as well as time saved in prep work!
I just bought them but they haven’t arrived yet. They said they make them as ordered.
@@garygosewisch3901 yeah I think it takes about 4 weeks after order. The popular items can take 6-8, though I did see they eliminated a fair amount of the custom options, so maybe that helps speed things up
While I always regrind my mortisers to square (with a tiny hint of relief), it is my opinion that it's not the issue of the taper of the bevel that is the problem. I restore chisels and planes, and have done hundreds of chisels and maybe 50 or so planes to machinist level tolerances (at least the parts that counts). The vintage mortise chisels always skewed (I've yet to encounter a perfect one) from Addis to marples to sorby, no exceptions. The Narex is much more consistent, but like you, I have a hard time cutting straight with them. That said I've noticed that some cheaper chisels cuts very well always, especially the modern blue chips that might as well be firmer chisels. This got me thinking that the issue really isn't the relief. I feel like the following are true (at least anecdotally to me).
1. The problem is far more likely a slightly off-square cutting edge. Compounded with the thicker bevel, you will get a chisel that always want to slide one way or another.
2. The extra large handle is also an issue, causing your mallet to strike it a bit off
3. Fully squared chisels area also a problem if your bevel is skewed.
4. Fully squared chisels can be problematic if you don't have a couple thou of relief by having an ever so slightly thinner back end.
5. Much of the times, even on good honing jigs, cinching the jig causes a beveled chisel to tilt off of the flat mounting. This is probably the root of what you are seeing above.
Yeah I’d agree with that, defo the handle. I have some vintage mortise chisels and the handle is like a samurai sord handle. I really liked how much more compact the Robs version is for cabinet joinery. The tapered side I mentioned was more for those that can’t get a squared grind on their mortise chisels using a jig as in that’s the reason why.
Thanks for the info. I am currently looking for a set of mortice chiesel so this video has came at the right time for me. The points that you made about the sides tappering in is something i have never considered before. The only downfall on the ibc mortice chiesels is the price, for the price of one ibc chiesel you would get a full set of narex chiesels but now i know why.
Remember you’ll have to sharpen them by hand the narex, well any euro mortise chisels 😏 if you buy Robs, you’ll need to buy them one by one too, I’d suggest you only need 3, and me personally I’d start with the 3/8” - 1/2" 3/8" and 1/4" all in. Shame he doesn’t make them in metric 🤦🏻♂️
Another hilarious and informative video! Thank you! I 🇦🇺👴🏻
Cheers Mark, hope you had a wonderful weekend mate! 🍻🍻🍻
BEN you should look out some old 2nd hand chisels I got some good old firmer chisels with Sheffield steel. Hold and edge well enough and motice chisel is flat sided as are all the firmer chisels.
I have some OLD ones but they’re not nice and chunky as Bobs chisels, they’re more like beater chisels but square sides, does that sound like what you’ve mentioned?
@@HewAndAwe I got some new ash handles for mine. And carefully sharpened them up. 1 tang split 1 handle. They are sharp and hold an edge well with a single bevel
3:25 ...'excuse my crippled fingers'.. I type this with bandaged digits after stuffing my right hand into the table saw blade 3 weeks ago. Lost the end of my thumb and cut tendon and bone of the middle finger. They'll never work quite right again. Gutted ..though it's good to see how you can adapt and still do your thing. I'd love to know what happened to you and how you healed up👍
Sorry to hear this Jules! I’ve never felt pain like ever again, akin to giving birth I was told 😬 a while ago I got into a fight, he had a knife… rather my hand than into my gut! Unfortunately when I came out of the first operation I clenched my hand up pulling all the tendons apart again, I didn’t know this had happened. For a week the physio kept trying to get me to move my fingers but I kept telling her I couldn’t, then went in for another op. But by then it was to late, tendons have to be repaired in less than 7 days or you’re toast. I can’t move the tip of my middle finger it’s stuck in a hook like figure, limited movement in two other fingers. The hooked middle finger keeps the ladies happy, comes in handy you could say …and I can still wank with it, so all is not lost. This was 27 years ago. It’s a bit embarrassing if I flip someone the bird, need to learn to use the other hand 🤦🏻♂️ Took about 6 months, loads of physio. I also lucked out that my finger stuck in that shape to still be able to draw and write so said I’m not having a third opp cause that could of made it worse and permanently straight. Hope you heal fast!!!! Do miss the morphine though 😂
@@HewAndAwe ...and there's me assuming yours was probably also a table saw injury!
I was told it wasn't viable to repair the tendon; too much damaged/missing, so I'm hoping to have more surgery down the road to fuse the 2 little finger bones into a modified wife-pleaser (yes, it was that very finger that got hit!)... good job I have a high level of ambidextrosity🤣As for my thumb, the repair looks horrific and they permanently removed the nail too, for some reason..time will tell how that turns out.
When i got home from hospital I was straight into the workshop to say hello to my table saw, tell it I still loved it, pick little dried bits of me off the table and cut a bit of wood, one-handed; just to get back on the horse, as it were. Then I was googling images of table saw injuries, just for context, to realise, despite feeling sorry for myself that my injuries were fuck all in comparison to many, especially as I'm left-handed so my dominant hand is fine!
Thanks so much for the reply and your kind words.. yep the morphine was good in hospital but codeine and beer at home was better!
Good move!!! When I sliced myself open with a chisel I went straight back, I knew if I didn’t I wouldn’t go back!
Love your style codeine and beer!!! 😂😂😂 Chin chin!!! 🍻🍻🍻
@@HewAndAwe Messy old business, woodworking😁
Cool chisle... dja getit from Ikea? ;-)
Must admit, I haven't hand cut a mortice in years... Thanks to my trusty old Sedgewick HC morticer.
Nor me mate, I was like can I remember how! I recon most are in the same boat too. Must say though speed wise I’d bet it’s a close cal by hand and machine mortiser (festool domino not included) in that thought. But then would win the race once set up I think.
@@HewAndAwe Doing anything by hand is pretty damned therapeutic, but therapy doesn't put food on the table... In fact no food on the table will possibly lead to therapy... Regardless, awesome tools are... well... Awesome. Thanks for the vid.
If you like Rob’s chisels you should try his saws !
Oh man I would so love to try his DT saw, that bad boy looks like it cuts FAST!!! never gonna happen though, can’t afford that!
@@HewAndAwe they are outstanding, worth saving up for ! I have his DT and bench crosscut.
I purchased the Lie Neilson DT with a custom handle from him back when he was representing them at the wood show circuit in early 2000. This an excellent saw but doesn’t have the extra fine teeth at the start on the blade. I have no issue by starting with a couple of draw pulls as a guide. If I was looking for another back saw, I would be taking a look at Veritas. Tool prices are crazy so shop around. 🇨🇦👍👨🦳
I got Luban mortise chisels from Ali express.. square sides and you can set flat on stone like inc or lie Nelson.. 60 us dollars with shipping.. there pretty good and got horn beam handles
Ibc*
What’s the metal though? HSS or?
Great stuff! Your channel is one of my favorites - probably because of the humor. Question: What's your take on the mortise chisel shaft not being solid all the way through? In the back of my mind, I'm thinking "Won't the pounding on the chisel eventually start to degrade the threads and potentially create an issue with all the parts not staying together tightly?" I was looking at the Blue Spruce chisels, a bit costly, but maybe the IBC requires another look.
Thank Glenn for the compliment! 🍻🍻🍻 IBC are highly regarded! I don’t see it being an issue I think the slot there was to tighten something up, the spruce versions have a notch instead. The threads are a fine pitch like on cars, in my mind that’s the best way. The spruce though are a nice price!!! If you’re particularly worried you could always use some thread lock, or even hairspray works. I m not worried though. If it happens I’ll be sure to say in one of my vids.
thanks
Thank you 🍻😊🍻
I can but assume the taper is there so the chisel doesn’t pinch when you go deeper, or maybe i missunderstood you 🙂
Yeah that’s the idea, but then you’ve lost what’s important to get the cut right as you don’t have a square chisel to help you cut plumb and square. Not to mention you can’t use a jig to sharpen them 🤦🏻♂️
@@HewAndAwe So true🙂
I use a regular old beater chisel for mortises and I'm no craftsman by any means, but I never managed to commit something like the gash at 8:26. Would mind filming the process? I am kinda curious.
That wasn’t with h to be eater chisel that was the narex, because the chisel isn’t parallel it kept twisting- I just can’t get on with it and they have to be sharpened by hand to which makes it even worse. With a beater chisel I’d cut a mortise just like I would with the Bob Coseman chisel, just takes longer and not as a clean.
@@HewAndAwe I know it was with narex, and i would still be interested in seeing it. I have no dog in the fight as brands go, Narex used to be worth it before the putin tax hit, but now they went down with QC. Its just that even with a beveled chisel, a half decent mortice isnt a problem, it surprised me that with a dedicatex pig sticker like that narex had such result, even when not completely tuned in
Just so we're crystal, every European chisel is tapered, this in my opinion doesn't help the cause bar you dont get the chisel stuck but then you wouldnt if you were doing it right, Id rather have a chisel thats square and parallel which gives me way better chance of a square plumb mortise - not to mention you cant use a jig to sharpen them, you have to sharpen by hand.
Timely as I'm about to cut some mortices with my Narex set. Not the best but better than using my Travis Perkins own brand beaters!
I’d use the beater’s if it were me at least they’re square/parallel. Are you sharpening them by hand or? The narex I mean.
I have some ibc plane irons now they are shit hot ,love the video keep up the good work and leave the viagra to the w,,,,rs that need it 😊
Oh no now you’ve done it, funny I was wondering if he might do plane irons but dare not look 😆 Cheer Peter, hope you had a lovely weekend mate!!! 🍻🍻🍻
Your accent is really hard to follow, (the CC didn´t help at all). Still a good video.
I don’t hear many say that dude.. words I use might not mean anything to you cause you’re not British, like if I said “harry on the boat” I bet you wouldn’t have a clue what I was talking about 😇
@@HewAndAwe I learn American English (I'm from Chile), so that´s why. But I watched it a couple of times and I was ok (the funny parts alone are worth it 😄).