Gotta love it, some nights youll find me sitting in front of TV with my wife, and have a tray with some boards on it and i take off ICP's and capacitors and any gold pins or plating. if im ever stuck on what a piece is i just go on the tube and watch some Moose Scrapper vids. even teachin my kids about the value of stuff we dig out of dumpsters. Thanks, keep em comin.
@@scottwatson325 idk if you’re being sarcastic or not, either way the amount of food and overall perfectly fine or reusable items put into dumpsters each day is sad. My kids and I eat 5 days a week off food we find in dumpsters. We are healthier than 95% of everyone I’ve known in my well traveled 40 years. My kids have money everyday to buy lunch...they choose to take lunches with perfectly fine dumpster goods and other home grown or raised food. We really only buy milk and a few fresh fruits from the store. I recommend everyone dumpster dive for the sake of the planet and future generations!
Hi and thanks for watching! The IC chip legs can be gold plated, if they are not then it is almost always more profitable to sell them as is in bulk. As for the ribbon wire, it is most commonly aluminum or tin coated copper. You can always try testing it with a silver test kit available on ebay for less than $10. I bought a set that tests for all the precious metals and it only cost about $12 and has been well worth it. Good idea to take it slow, learn, and not get overwhelmed. Thanks!
Ty so much. I have searched and searched, and yours is the first video, I found that I understand what u are showing me.I needed the content of this video badly. Now there is still a lot of specific questions I have about this electronic scrapping. And I would love to see some more videos like this one.
hey man, thanks to you I start scraping and pick up e-waste, for hobby of course... by the way, down here (Florence, Italy) now one buys e-waste...love your videos.
Thanks for the great comments! I have thought about that subject a lot and it would really be a long video I think. I mean, in all honsty, you can find gold plate in SOOOO many places. Jumpers are a great place to find them especially in computers on the mother board, drives, even on the PCI cards. You can even find the jumpers in fax machines, copiers, the list goes on!! If I knew that people might actually sit through like a ten or fifteen minute video on some of the places to find
I learned my lesson with contact lenses years ago when I made some stuffed jalepenos. I always make sure my hands are clean!!!! I got GoJo hand cleaner and a box of towels right there at the bench! Thanks!
on the flat back ic chips i have found it's best to take your chissel and get in in the corner as flat as you can get it and give it a few taps with the hammer and it pops right off. thanks for a great video tutorial.
Interesting, I just picked up a couple totes of old 70's era and earlier radios, CB's, etc at a yard sale for free. Some were left in the raine but one tote was closed. Is there a site that you know of that is a good resource for identifying and pricing? Thanks
Right, if you have a scrap yard that pays for it then by all means sell the stuff. I can't find a yard in Maine that buys boards especially low grade so i end up cherry picking what i want off of them then trashing them. Its pretty much the only part that is not recycled in my garage. Thanks for watching!
Were they plastic or cereamic? I would have to see them if you could to a video response and show I might be able to tell you more. If they are ceramic, in my experience the cermic IC's are worth more than the plastic ones. Thanks!
Good information, great work as always. One question, the ic chips that are soldered in place what's the best way to remove them? Thank you for taking all of the time to do these videos.
Your videos have helped me out alot. I used to throw stuff away that didn't have gold. There are a couple items I can't identify what they are if you can help. And also can I sell circuit board somewhere for more then steel scrap at recycle place where are the best places for me to sell circuit board and capacitors. Thank you again please respond
Gosh!! You made that so much simpler to use my brain for. I learned more in this video then seriously hours of learning to extract these metals. You have to be a fing wizard to extract the raw precious metals. I would die in the first 14 seconds opening a bottle of acid anything. Im going to scrap for whole pieces. I just started scrapping and my girlfriend had an old Motorola phone. Gold every crevice, I still have not touched it because I do not know where to start and I use electrolysis to deplate. And I've never have done it with gold. Im a bit apprehensive. And I also have a business that I can also use some of these beautiful parts for. The phone in reality would fetch $13-$26 in gold, but my other art would sell for far more. But its such a satisfying feeling deplating and scrapping. Its technically treasure hunting. I want to educate my self more to see the most money I can get. I found taking off those tiny brown and silver ones so satisfying and the contain precious metals. Might just do that for a long time and when I get to say like 60lbs see what someone would pay for it. Sorrry for babbling. Thanks for the video 👍
The chip you are removing at 4:00 is actually a BGA (ball grid array). Most people call them north/south bridge chips. Personally, I call them by what they do on the board, graphics processing unit (GPU). Everyone has their own little names for stuff like that. A "flatpak" or "quad" is defined as having legs of all four sides. Any IC package that has legs on all four sides can be called a flatpak.
+Geo I love you man..... Really, I can't think of anything I would enjoy more than to spend like a week just hanging out with you doing gold recovery. You are GIFTED at correcting and informing people in a way that does not make them feel like a total idiot. I am still learning, sometimes it seems like there is just too much to learn for one person. Just watched your video on the air chisel, and read the comments and your responses. You truly are a first class gentleman. Thanks! Editing now!
+Moose Scrapper Your so right Moose. Geo is a class act just like yourself! Both u guys have already helped me tremendously. I spent a majority of my youth after college working with IBM Mainframes (Huge) servers printers, card printers & readers , Mac 2s, etc,. I only used these machines to complete my tasks and was never able to get my hands inside of one. When the big mainframes broke You could say that I had my head stuck up the IBM tech's ass just to get a look inside of these so called "super computers". Now these were loaded with precious metals. I wished I could of gotten my hands on one for scrapping but who knew back in the early 80's. Let me know Moose when your going to fly to Australia for a week I would like to tag along. Ha Ha
If there is still gold on the board then yes. Once all the pieces have been removed from it and the solder taken off you can process it the same was as the gold fingers. Thanks for watching!
That's a great question.... Unfortunately I don't have a great answer for this one. If the IC has gold prongs, is an eprom with a little window where you can see the gold, or is older ceramic which most often have gold, the only way I know for sure to tell is to crack them open!! They all get processed pretty much the same way or sold in similar way. Originalfeets, indeeditdoes, or 10464jeff would likely have a better answer for you. I may not know but I can steer you there! Thanks!
Hey moose I’ve got some circuit boards from MRI machines that are heavily gold flashed and what seems like solid gold pins and connectors. How much are they worth?!!!! Per pound or should I depoopulate them all
Thanks man I'm still working out different mistakes. Trying to master all this but u keep me inspired to continue. I started several years ago most time s fail but u help alot
Nice video Moose, Thanks. I have a sort of unrelated question though, how do you trim your RAM? Currently, I use a pair of tin snips but I REALLY need to find a faster not to mention less painful method! I trimmed over 20 lbs. this week and my mitts are killing me! LOL
Hello Mr. Moose Scrapper. Will scrap yards still buy these chips if they're broke? In the process of taking some off, they broke. So didn't know if I should throw them away or just put them in with the rest. As always, thank you Sir.
Hi there, borken IC's are just as good as intact ones. Part of the gold recovery process for IC's is incineration so it does not matter if they are solid or broken. Best of luck to you!
Sure, one quick little thing to remember is that IC chips are the big ones "I see" quite well while the Monolithic Ceramic Capacitors MCC are mini. Thanks for watching!
In my low grade boards I take out the tube fuse too since it's so easy. I wonder if they can be sold on ebay by the pound too? I've also found that heating the board with a heat gun can loosen up everything pretty quick and easy (for low grades). I found a board that's metallic and can be bent, it's not silicone for sure. Have you come across that type of board? Is it worth anything?
Yes, I see them in some electronics. I just throw them in the light iron pile. Most of their weight is that anyway. As for the tubes, the best way to look to see what you can get is to go on ebay and search the sold listings to see what they are going for. Thanks for watching!
That one was not soldered down, it was in some kind of socket. It was pretty easy to pull out with the pliers without damaging or you can use a small flat head screw driver to gently pry it out. Chips like that I tend to put aside now and try to research their value and sell on ebay. Another viewer said I should try that and it is more money that way but more time. Thanks
For most of the soldered ones I still use the channelock twist to get them off. It may take a little wiggling back and forth but they do pop off. There are other methods of depopulating boards that include a hot sand bath that I have not tried yet but 10464jeff has a video on that, also you can use the more toxic method unless well ventilated of using a heat gun or a propne torch behind the board to soften/melt the solder. Beware of the fumes thought! Thanks for watching!
No problem!! Thanks for watching! I do not have a refiner, I refine some things myself and sell the rest on ebay. There is a channel that has that info, I will find that for you. Thanks!
Hi and thanks for watching. I do not recall referring to them as #2 board, they are broken up into tiers. Low, mid, and high grade boards. Scrap yards buy them for their metal content such as gold silver, platiumun, palladium, tantalum, copper, aluminum, and so on.
Moose Scrapper I must've gotten you confused with someone else. 'My apologies. Thank you for attempting, as best you could, to answer my question :) . It was helpful.
moose would it be worth more scraping the bored at a scrap yard or colleting the gold pins and capacitors and selling and refining them yourself and on ebay
Those Craftsman Robo Grips are great. I finally broke mine last week after YEARS of use. Went to get a new pair on the lifetime warranty, Craftsman no longer makes them. They have some are very similar, but made in China. And no lifetime warranty. Enjoy them while you still can.
Thanks! Been getting more sarcastic, nasty, and just plain old messed up comments that usual lately... Nice to hear a little positive here and there. SO what kind of work do you do with those metals?
Great video. I did not know about Monolithic capacitors being valuable, thank you for that info. The chisel seems a bit much for the surface mounted ICs. I found an old smaller, but long, flat head screw driver and put a bevel on it. Leaving one side flat then grinding a 45 angle on the other side. It seems to slice under the chips and makes quick work of them.
This dude is for real with what he says just by his Expressions you can tell he's like fuck it whatever you get out of it and that's all on you buddy but enough patience to show how
So your busting out the chips aggressively instead of recycling (reusable) , do you just save up so may pounds and sell them to scrap yard or are you smelting or using your acid/Clorox bath to recover PM?
+Robert “1932chevytruck” S I am saving them, I do not know enough about electronic parts to be able to resell them. I keep them until I have several pounds then recover the gold myself, though HCL and bleach is not the method used.
Great video, precise, well made, informative. Thanks! How do you get the solder off of the back of the board? those little blobs, they have precocious metals, how do you take those off?
I do not remove or collect solder. The solder with the highest silver content, that happens to also be very rare, is less than 25% silver so the cost in chemicals to refine would outweigh the profit. Much larger facilities probably recover it, but for the small time recycler/refiner, really not worth it sadly.
I personally use a large plastic bucket where I throw all the boards and just add some low grade hydrochloric acid(I mean just stuff from Canadian tire,31% muriatic acid)to cover them all!It actually works great:it dissolve all the poop like solder,aluminium and a bit of copper(yes,all that is just nothing more than dog's poop!)-and so it first of all makes all the useful stuff to separate from boards just by shaking these boards,and also reduces amount of poop on which I certainly don't want to waste my aqua regia! So that is actually the best way to depopulate those boards on my opinion!And BTW after that just some incineration,ball mill,dissolving powder in AR and finally precipitating all the gold,silver and PGMs from that solution-all the rest of the periodic table except these 8 elements(and some uranium and trans-uranium elements which don't occur in e-waste)-is just crap!
What about gold within the layers of the board itself? For instance, the apparent gold connections in the board that are under a cpu chip. Gold connects to gold well so there should be gold where gold pins go into the board. Do any boards have a layer of gold underneath the green, red, or whatever color surface? What are gold colors that shows in various patterns on the board but seem to have no particular purpose? Are any silver wires solid or are they always plated? If solid, which ones are they?
Thanks for the tip!! I would not know what to look for in rare chips. Do you have a video on that? If so i would gladly watch and refer others to it! Thanks!
I find it easier, and quicker, to use an air hammer to strip off components from a circuit board (not just motherboards) when there's more than just a few pieces I'm wanting. The problem with a heat gun or propane torch is more energy will be used ($$$) in the long run if you are doing many boards AND you're introducing toxic fumes into the air you're breathing. I don't rip the WHOLE board though... just for the components I'm wanting to sell off or recover precious metals from. I leave the rest to add to the board weight instead of just scrap steel waste for the ripped off parts of no real value in small-time recovery. Personally, I go for ALL capacitors (and separate by type later), IC chips (not all that look like IC chips ARE IC chips so do your research), IDE pins, SATA port connectors, LAN / Phone connectors (most but not all), USB ports (sometimes), some copper wrapped around iron inductors (I gauge by copper-to-iron ratio), some video & printer ports (I leave the ones on 2004 and newer motherboards except for server boards), and of course any odds n ends that have gold plated material. I have found that the gold plated pins inside of card slots and CPU sockets, and more modern motherboard video/printer ports, are so little in gold plating that the weight of the plastic & metal that's around them on the boards justifies leaving them on the board to sell to a scrap yard. Plus, even with an air hammer, it's a worse mess to sort through afterwards for what little bit of gold plating you're going to recover... but that's my opinion from the time & value aspect of those components. If the board you're tearing down only has a few or less items you're wanting to collect... a pry tool like a screw driver or chisel or utility knife should be sufficient. But if you have a lot of items to tear off or a lot of boards to process... I suggest an air hammer to quickly and easily rip them off. If the boards are the size of a holiday or birthday card, or smaller, and you're wanting to strip it bare... check out Moose's other video about a hot sand bath.
+ManiaOperativa The bigger the board the more heat it sapps out of the sand and will take longer. But yes, you can do it that way and just use a piece of window screen to sift out the sand. Personally for mother boards, I remove what I want for gold recovery by hand. Yeah it takes a little longer, but when you know what you are digging for you can process them pretty quickly. Thanks!
How can you tell which IC chips have gold & which ones don't? I have jars full of them from various boards & would like to sort them for further gold refining.
hey moose, love your videos! just a quick question for you - is it possible to scrap the diodes on the pcb? are they not aluminum? I googled it but came up empty...thanks!
Mr. Scrapper, what are the little cylinder capacitors called. They are brown with darker brown or orange stripes on the ends. Kind of the shape of a tylenol.
+moose scrapper is it worth actually removing the chips. i had 30 lbs of low grade and 8 lbs of high grade boards. after removing all the chips it was all low grade. i only received $.10/lb on the boards. so is it actually worth removing them from the high grade?
Value is a completely subjective thing. There are a lot of variables as well. What are you scrapping for, the most money, is gold recovery an income or hobby? Does your yard pay much more for high grade vs low grade? For me, its worth it because my yard pays one price for boards, and I enjoy the gold recovery hobby. Its not a source of income that I rely on. I think that's the best answer I can come up with.
+Moose Scrapper unfortunately my yard pays separate prices per each grade of board. right now I'm in the stages of collecting the gold to process. i have several 5 gal buckets full of boards that need to be processed. just from land line phones.
Awesome video series on the electronic stuff. Lots of stuff learned there. I'm just starting to get involved with scrapping out computers since its basically untapped around here. I've been in the auto salvage business for several years now, but this would give me something to do after its dark. The ultimate question to me is, how far should I go when breaking down the boards? Cut the fingers off and send the rest to boardsort? Or is worth taking all the IC's off? If you yank the IC's, will somebody buy the rest? I'd appreciate your thoughts.
I think that you get the most bang for your buck, and time, by starting off recovering gold from the fingers. Boardsort will still buy the rest of the ram and pci card without it. Its gets your feet wet so to speak with gold recovery. Then you can decide if you want to venture further. The big thing to remember is the volume needed to get decent results. You can spend hours plucking gold plated pins for only a gram or two of gold, or you can spend a fraction of the time, sorting and shipping to boardsort. Once the IC is removed from the RAM, they wont buy it.
how long does it take you to depopulate your motherboards also in the audio jacks on the motherboards i tore one of them apart and appear to be gold plated like i thought maybe just the tips would be but they appear to be completely plated/painted. any insight into this would be great thanks.
Luke Ketelhut hI THERE, It takes me about 10 minutes to depopulate a mother board. I am a bit selective as to what I take off though. The parts inside the jacks are indeed gold plated.
Moose Scrapper thanks i'd have to say i'm very new at this cause i take a lot longer to do mine and thanks on the audio pins poped the vga port open on a old video card. it looks like military grade plated lol. thanks
Where can you sell the boards once they are stripped of the IC chips and some of the other valuable components? Would boardsort still buy them depopulated? Do they become low grade boards or do they retain their original value? Thanks in advance for any response.
karakantouvalos Hi there, they are dropped in value after removing the valuable items. If you are going to pick the boards I would probably not suggest trying to sell them to places you have to ship to because you have to pay for shipping and the value will drop so you will get paid a lot less, some places you will lose money. If you strip, sell to the scrap yard. Thanks!
OK, thanks for your very prompt response. I was thinking along the same lines. I think I'll just leave those IC chips on the boards for now. Yes, I know what you mean about shipping! The cost of shipping some items is becoming prohibitive.
I found a laptop board that has dark orange capacitors and I think they may be tantalum due to the shape and size. But I've never seen this color. Also heard blue caps are tantalum?
I still struggle with tantallum. Original feets knows a lot more, check out his channel and ask him, he has a few vids I think on just those. Best of luck to you!
My question to you and I would love to see a video on it is a financial breakdown. Yes the IC chips are valuable but when you take them off you devalue the board as a whole. I struggle with knowing where that line is of which way of doing what is truly the most bang for your buck. Ic chips are a lot easier and less bulky to ship so that’s a huge factor too. Great videos!
That is an incredibly difficult if not impossible question to answer. Its all relative. For me, the nearest place I can take boards to physically only pays between 3-10 cents per pound. The good thing is they dont care what condition they are in, you do not have to sort at all, and you can pick off them. The bad thing is that there are boards worth a few dollars a pound, and they still pay 3-10 cents per pound. For those boards, it makes more sense for me to try to freight them to a refiner like Boardsort.com. For someone like Ewaste Mike, he lives reasonably close to Boardsort so he can pack a trailer up and make a road trip so for him it does not make sense to pick items off the board. The only way to determine which route is best for you is to do your own research into local buyers, and play with freight calculators for online refiners. Sadly thats about the best answer I can give. Hope that helps.
So my son has this fascination for getting these boards.. He is 11 how can I help him and as a mom what do I need to do with helping him and keeping his safety in mind?
I don't. I sell them for gold recovery. I wish knew enough about these things to be able to sell them, I hear there is some money in that. Thanks for watching!
The best way that I could say would be to visit the goldrefiningforum. They have lots of info and videos and tips. Pyrolysis is the most common method which is basically burning them in an oxygen deprived environment so they do not creat as much toxic chemicals. Originalfeets has a video on that as well. It is a multi step process that starts with pyrolysis, then goes to either an A/P bath or aqua regia. I do not process my chips unfortunately. Thanks for watching!
I typically sell them to boardsort the website. They buy it in bulk by the lb. The only real separating I do with them if I have enough, and with these volume matters, I will separate eproms, plastic, ceramic, and gold pinned ones. Plastic ones will get the lowest price followed by ceramic, gold pinned, then eproms. The more valuable ones can be sold on ebay with a little more patience. Just set your price and wait. Thanks!
OOOhhh, So its not a ceramic circuit board, you just have a cermic CPU chip, gotcha. SO far the only tried and true method for gold recovery from those buggers is to use Aqua Regia. I don't use nitric acid at all so I will not be of much help with that. I just know that you are supposed to break up the CPU a good bit then set in a beacker for the AR. This spring I will be doing soem experimentation on using other methods but would not dare to share any of that now and risk someone losing their gold. ua-cam.com/video/tQ_R8Gr26kk/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/Hv4CcaTVJqY/v-deo.html
If you not worried about using the chips or capacitors again, using a heat gun makes the process so much easier. Just be careful not to burn up the board. You just want it hot enough to melt the solder. Smoke from burnt pcbs is horrible to breath in. Use a respirator or fume hood for safety purposes.
the pins from the IC chips are they anything special? Im just starting out with electronic scrapping trying to get as much info as possible so i dont get overwhelming trying to figure it out. also i have ribbon wire that has what looks like silver ends instead of gold? do you know what type of metal it is?
There are companies that buy them for the copper tracing and solder and they also recycle the board material. I don't strip my boards down that far so I am not sure of any specific names, I just know they are out there. Thanks!
Hey Moose....there is a carpet tool that has a 2" (est.) thin, sharp wheel. I'm going to use this for IC removal where I can get to them.....chisel for the others. Much faster.... Did you experiment with my clothes iron heating element for board depopulation yet? Hope it gets hot enough to heat the sand bath.
lol! I sold a lot of tubes on ebay recently for over $110 USD as well! They were unused in their boxes though. Thanks for the info on the chips, I'll start looking! Thanks!
Hey Moose, what IC chips have the gold "wire fibers" in them? I know the flat packs with gold lead on the corner and such but curious if ALL IC's are worth processing. I realize that's both an open ended question and people will have their own take on it but I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm not going to burn up 50 lbs of IC's for an ounce of silver.....thanks and YOU ROCK!
Great question, one that I am not sure I know how to answer. THe flat packs have gold, the IC's on ram chips have gold bonding wires, as for all the rest, I honestly do not know. I have craked opne a lot while removing them from boards and have fould a lot that have no gold in them that I could see. What I do is take the ones I know have gold and save them to process my self, and sell all the rest. The goldrefiningforum might have better info for you, or GEO, he has a channel with a video series on recovering gold from them. Thanks!
is it better to separate all the components and IC's into their elements, or better to sell bags of capacitors and IC's in the condition i pulled them off the board.
Im curious as I can not find the info on my mobile device. I have conection flat cable labelled sumitomo-c awm 20624 80c 60v vw-1 -f- and I do not know if its worth keeping. It shines like silver or platinum but I cant find comfirmation online. Have you discovered the type of metal they contain?
You are absolutely correct! Scrap is the LOWEST value of an item and every attempt should be made to sell the item if still working first. The videos I create are simply how-to's for scrappers. And in many instances, the only time I scrap many items is for the purpose of a video. As for the IC's etc, I unfortunately do not posses the knowledge, or time to reasearch, and carefully remove these chips. I also have no way of testing them to see if they work. If you see me pulling a board out..
Can you strip any circuit board or is it just computers because I have a ton of tv boards , tv remote boards and all sorts of circuit boards from random electronics
Hi, I have 3 PC's that were back when windows 95 and 98 are they of any value..also do Floor model TV's from 1990 have any gold in them? BTW Great Video Man..
I can't tell you thank you enough for saying who you use as a scrapping company! I have been trying to find this information out! Do you have a refiner too?
Gotta love it, some nights youll find me sitting in front of TV with my wife, and have a tray with some boards on it and i take off ICP's and capacitors and any gold pins or plating. if im ever stuck on what a piece is i just go on the tube and watch some Moose Scrapper vids. even teachin my kids about the value of stuff we dig out of dumpsters. Thanks, keep em comin.
Eric Nourani hey there, monolithic ceramic capacitors and tantalum capacitors, sure theres more but theyre the top value guys.
PIPER DOUG parenting done right.
Ok...
Hopefully you and your kids can salvage the food out of the dumpster
@@scottwatson325 idk if you’re being sarcastic or not, either way the amount of food and overall perfectly fine or reusable items put into dumpsters each day is sad. My kids and I eat 5 days a week off food we find in dumpsters. We are healthier than 95% of everyone I’ve known in my well traveled 40 years. My kids have money everyday to buy lunch...they choose to take lunches with perfectly fine dumpster goods and other home grown or raised food. We really only buy milk and a few fresh fruits from the store. I recommend everyone dumpster dive for the sake of the planet and future generations!
Hi and thanks for watching! The IC chip legs can be gold plated, if they are not then it is almost always more profitable to sell them as is in bulk. As for the ribbon wire, it is most commonly aluminum or tin coated copper. You can always try testing it with a silver test kit available on ebay for less than $10. I bought a set that tests for all the precious metals and it only cost about $12 and has been well worth it. Good idea to take it slow, learn, and not get overwhelmed. Thanks!
You are probably the best talking scrap guy on UA-cam. Keep up the good work!
Ty so much. I have searched and searched, and yours is the first video, I found that I understand what u are showing me.I needed the content of this video badly. Now there is still a lot of specific questions I have about this electronic scrapping. And I would love to see some more videos like this one.
hey man, thanks to you I start scraping and pick up e-waste, for hobby of course... by the way, down here (Florence, Italy) now one buys e-waste...love your videos.
Thanks for the great comments! I have thought about that subject a lot and it would really be a long video I think. I mean, in all honsty, you can find gold plate in SOOOO many places. Jumpers are a great place to find them especially in computers on the mother board, drives, even on the PCI cards. You can even find the jumpers in fax machines, copiers, the list goes on!! If I knew that people might actually sit through like a ten or fifteen minute video on some of the places to find
half inch chisel, (with a nice comfortable handle) many uses, a must have for any scrapper.
I learned my lesson with contact lenses years ago when I made some stuffed jalepenos. I always make sure my hands are clean!!!! I got GoJo hand cleaner and a box of towels right there at the bench! Thanks!
I'm new to scrapping electronics...moose you are by far the most helpful dude I found....i subbed n thank you for your videos n information.
lol I agree, just needed a board that was handy for the video. Thanks for watching!
on the flat back ic chips i have found it's best to take your chissel and get in in the corner as flat as you can get it and give it a few taps with the hammer and it pops right off. thanks for a great video tutorial.
You are super informative and cool in explaining what things are and what they have. Thanks a bunch!
Thank you I was doing most of all that except the flat iC chips with the gold tab
I can understand your "bad" since when scrapping we look for populated PCB's for the higher value. Great vid as always Moose.
Finally, some info I can use. I've been saving everything off of these boards but no one has been able to tell me about them. Thanks Moose!
Interesting, I just picked up a couple totes of old 70's era and earlier radios, CB's, etc at a yard sale for free. Some were left in the raine but one tote was closed. Is there a site that you know of that is a good resource for identifying and pricing? Thanks
Right, if you have a scrap yard that pays for it then by all means sell the stuff. I can't find a yard in Maine that buys boards especially low grade so i end up cherry picking what i want off of them then trashing them. Its pretty much the only part that is not recycled in my garage. Thanks for watching!
Were they plastic or cereamic? I would have to see them if you could to a video response and show I might be able to tell you more. If they are ceramic, in my experience the cermic IC's are worth more than the plastic ones. Thanks!
Good information, great work as always. One question, the ic chips that are soldered in place what's the best way to remove them? Thank you for taking all of the time to do these videos.
Your videos have helped me out alot. I used to throw stuff away that didn't have gold. There are a couple items I can't identify what they are if you can help. And also can I sell circuit board somewhere for more then steel scrap at recycle place where are the best places for me to sell circuit board and capacitors. Thank you again please respond
man, you're a beast
i was looking on how to remove them so i can use again...
Gosh!! You made that so much simpler to use my brain for. I learned more in this video then seriously hours of learning to extract these metals. You have to be a fing wizard to extract the raw precious metals. I would die in the first 14 seconds opening a bottle of acid anything. Im going to scrap for whole pieces. I just started scrapping and my girlfriend had an old Motorola phone. Gold every crevice, I still have not touched it because I do not know where to start and I use electrolysis to deplate. And I've never have done it with gold. Im a bit apprehensive. And I also have a business that I can also use some of these beautiful parts for. The phone in reality would fetch $13-$26 in gold, but my other art would sell for far more. But its such a satisfying feeling deplating and scrapping. Its technically treasure hunting. I want to educate my self more to see the most money I can get. I found taking off those tiny brown and silver ones so satisfying and the contain precious metals. Might just do that for a long time and when I get to say like 60lbs see what someone would pay for it. Sorrry for babbling. Thanks for the video 👍
Really enjoy your videos buddy!! I'm new to all this and all your information has really helped me!
The chip you are removing at 4:00 is actually a BGA (ball grid array). Most people call them north/south bridge chips. Personally, I call them by what they do on the board, graphics processing unit (GPU). Everyone has their own little names for stuff like that. A "flatpak" or "quad" is defined as having legs of all four sides. Any IC package that has legs on all four sides can be called a flatpak.
+Geo I love you man..... Really, I can't think of anything I would enjoy more than to spend like a week just hanging out with you doing gold recovery. You are GIFTED at correcting and informing people in a way that does not make them feel like a total idiot. I am still learning, sometimes it seems like there is just too much to learn for one person. Just watched your video on the air chisel, and read the comments and your responses. You truly are a first class gentleman. Thanks! Editing now!
+Moose Scrapper Your so right Moose. Geo is a class act just like yourself! Both u guys have already helped me tremendously. I spent a majority of my youth after college working with IBM Mainframes (Huge) servers printers, card printers & readers , Mac 2s, etc,. I only used these machines to complete my tasks and was never able to get my hands inside of one. When the big mainframes broke You could say that I had my head stuck up the IBM tech's ass just to get a look inside of these so called "super computers". Now these were loaded with precious metals. I wished I could of gotten my hands on one for scrapping but who knew back in the early 80's. Let me know Moose when your going to fly to Australia for a week I would like to tag along. Ha Ha
painterphil
once all fingers, chips etc. have been removed, is a gold bearing board worth further refining by an amature? Thanks!
If there is still gold on the board then yes. Once all the pieces have been removed from it and the solder taken off you can process it the same was as the gold fingers. Thanks for watching!
That's a great question.... Unfortunately I don't have a great answer for this one. If the IC has gold prongs, is an eprom with a little window where you can see the gold, or is older ceramic which most often have gold, the only way I know for sure to tell is to crack them open!! They all get processed pretty much the same way or sold in similar way. Originalfeets, indeeditdoes, or 10464jeff would likely have a better answer for you. I may not know but I can steer you there! Thanks!
Hey moose I’ve got some circuit boards from MRI machines that are heavily gold flashed and what seems like solid gold pins and connectors. How much are they worth?!!!! Per pound or should I depoopulate them all
Thanks man I'm still working out different mistakes. Trying to master all this but u keep me inspired to continue. I started several years ago most time s fail but u help alot
Keep at it, mistakes are all learning experiences! Best of luck to you!
Thank you so much for your advice really enjoy and doing those little things now it’s to find someone who wants to buy them!
Nice video Moose, Thanks. I have a sort of unrelated question though, how do you trim your RAM? Currently, I use a pair of tin snips but I REALLY need to find a faster not to mention less painful method! I trimmed over 20 lbs. this week and my mitts are killing me! LOL
Hello Mr. Moose Scrapper. Will scrap yards still buy these chips if they're broke? In the process of taking some off, they broke. So didn't know if I should throw them away or just put them in with the rest. As always, thank you Sir.
Hi there, borken IC's are just as good as intact ones. Part of the gold recovery process for IC's is incineration so it does not matter if they are solid or broken. Best of luck to you!
Moose Scrapper Thank you Sir. Much Appreciated.
Thank you so much for all your videos. The information is great and very helpful.
Thank you for watching!
Great advice. Thanks a lot for the info, I had heard about all of the precious metals in the boards and now I know now. Thanks I had subscribed
Sure, one quick little thing to remember is that IC chips are the big ones "I see" quite well while the Monolithic Ceramic Capacitors MCC are mini. Thanks for watching!
In my low grade boards I take out the tube fuse too since it's so easy. I wonder if they can be sold on ebay by the pound too? I've also found that heating the board with a heat gun can loosen up everything pretty quick and easy (for low grades). I found a board that's metallic and can be bent, it's not silicone for sure. Have you come across that type of board? Is it worth anything?
Yes, I see them in some electronics. I just throw them in the light iron pile. Most of their weight is that anyway. As for the tubes, the best way to look to see what you can get is to go on ebay and search the sold listings to see what they are going for. Thanks for watching!
That one was not soldered down, it was in some kind of socket. It was pretty easy to pull out with the pliers without damaging or you can use a small flat head screw driver to gently pry it out. Chips like that I tend to put aside now and try to research their value and sell on ebay. Another viewer said I should try that and it is more money that way but more time. Thanks
I cleaned out a electronics warehouse and got a huge box of ic chips that have never been used are they worth anything ?
For most of the soldered ones I still use the channelock twist to get them off. It may take a little wiggling back and forth but they do pop off. There are other methods of depopulating boards that include a hot sand bath that I have not tried yet but 10464jeff has a video on that, also you can use the more toxic method unless well ventilated of using a heat gun or a propne torch behind the board to soften/melt the solder. Beware of the fumes thought! Thanks for watching!
No problem!! Thanks for watching! I do not have a refiner, I refine some things myself and sell the rest on ebay. There is a channel that has that info, I will find that for you. Thanks!
What is valuable about a number 2 circuit board? I've heard you mention them in videos, and I wondered what makes them worth scrapping?
Hi and thanks for watching. I do not recall referring to them as #2 board, they are broken up into tiers. Low, mid, and high grade boards. Scrap yards buy them for their metal content such as gold silver, platiumun, palladium, tantalum, copper, aluminum, and so on.
Moose Scrapper I must've gotten you confused with someone else. 'My apologies. Thank you for attempting, as best you could, to answer my question :) . It was helpful.
Low heat, just enough to melt solder or a desoldering tool. Use gator clips if you can to divert heat away from chip.
moose would it be worth more scraping the bored at a scrap yard or colleting the gold pins and capacitors and selling and refining them yourself and on ebay
Those Craftsman Robo Grips are great. I finally broke mine last week after YEARS of use. Went to get a new pair on the lifetime warranty, Craftsman no longer makes them. They have some are very similar, but made in China. And no lifetime warranty. Enjoy them while you still can.
I think ur doing just fine.keep up the good work. Im a metal worker in non Ferrous and ferrous. Brass /copper zinc die cast aluminum. Precious metals.
Thanks! Been getting more sarcastic, nasty, and just plain old messed up comments that usual lately... Nice to hear a little positive here and there. SO what kind of work do you do with those metals?
thanks!...very helpful....do you have anything for sale and where?
+Mauricio Jesus Cosio anything for sale? Like what? I sell stuff I find on ebay...
i actually need ceramic eproms and other intel chips...thanks!
After the boards are picked what do you do with the board itself?
I just got one today and will make the video tonight or tomorrow night!! Thanks for the topic suggestion!!
When you remove the higher end pieces will they still accept the board?
Great video. I did not know about Monolithic capacitors being valuable, thank you for that info. The chisel seems a bit much for the surface mounted ICs. I found an old smaller, but long, flat head screw driver and put a bevel on it. Leaving one side flat then grinding a 45 angle on the other side. It seems to slice under the chips and makes quick work of them.
This dude is for real with what he says just by his Expressions you can tell he's like fuck it whatever you get out of it and that's all on you buddy but enough patience to show how
So your busting out the chips aggressively instead of recycling (reusable) , do you just save up so may pounds and sell them to scrap yard or are you smelting or using your acid/Clorox bath to recover PM?
+Robert “1932chevytruck” S I am saving them, I do not know enough about electronic parts to be able to resell them. I keep them until I have several pounds then recover the gold myself, though HCL and bleach is not the method used.
Nice to know the saw works well, hopefully the dust collection system helps take care of that nasty floaters.
I like to check videos more than once to catch what I missed the first. Thanks.
Great video, precise, well made, informative. Thanks! How do you get the solder off of the back of the board? those little blobs, they have precocious metals, how do you take those off?
I do not remove or collect solder. The solder with the highest silver content, that happens to also be very rare, is less than 25% silver so the cost in chemicals to refine would outweigh the profit. Much larger facilities probably recover it, but for the small time recycler/refiner, really not worth it sadly.
Moose Scrapper Interesting, thank you! That is helpful information.
Do those large flat chips contain gold? Should I smash and pan? Or sell. And where too. Thanks!
I personally use a large plastic bucket where I throw all the boards and just add some low grade hydrochloric acid(I mean just stuff from Canadian tire,31% muriatic acid)to cover them all!It actually works great:it dissolve all the poop like solder,aluminium and a bit of copper(yes,all that is just nothing more than dog's poop!)-and so it first of all makes all the useful stuff to separate from boards just by shaking these boards,and also reduces amount of poop on which I certainly don't want to waste my aqua regia!
So that is actually the best way to depopulate those boards on my opinion!And BTW after that just some incineration,ball mill,dissolving powder in AR and finally precipitating all the gold,silver and PGMs from that solution-all the rest of the periodic table except these 8 elements(and some uranium and trans-uranium elements which don't occur in e-waste)-is just crap!
I was opening up PC power boxes today and came across a board that had white ic's along with the regular black ones. any thoughts?
Very motivational, put me in the recycling mood.
What about gold within the layers of the board itself? For instance, the apparent gold connections in the board that are under a cpu chip. Gold connects to gold well so there should be gold where gold pins go into the board. Do any boards have a layer of gold underneath the green, red, or whatever color surface? What are gold colors that shows in various patterns on the board but seem to have no particular purpose?
Are any silver wires solid or are they always plated? If solid, which ones are they?
Thanks for the tip!! I would not know what to look for in rare chips. Do you have a video on that? If so i would gladly watch and refer others to it! Thanks!
I find it easier, and quicker, to use an air hammer to strip off components from a circuit board (not just motherboards) when there's more than just a few pieces I'm wanting. The problem with a heat gun or propane torch is more energy will be used ($$$) in the long run if you are doing many boards AND you're introducing toxic fumes into the air you're breathing. I don't rip the WHOLE board though... just for the components I'm wanting to sell off or recover precious metals from. I leave the rest to add to the board weight instead of just scrap steel waste for the ripped off parts of no real value in small-time recovery. Personally, I go for ALL capacitors (and separate by type later), IC chips (not all that look like IC chips ARE IC chips so do your research), IDE pins, SATA port connectors, LAN / Phone connectors (most but not all), USB ports (sometimes), some copper wrapped around iron inductors (I gauge by copper-to-iron ratio), some video & printer ports (I leave the ones on 2004 and newer motherboards except for server boards), and of course any odds n ends that have gold plated material. I have found that the gold plated pins inside of card slots and CPU sockets, and more modern motherboard video/printer ports, are so little in gold plating that the weight of the plastic & metal that's around them on the boards justifies leaving them on the board to sell to a scrap yard. Plus, even with an air hammer, it's a worse mess to sort through afterwards for what little bit of gold plating you're going to recover... but that's my opinion from the time & value aspect of those components. If the board you're tearing down only has a few or less items you're wanting to collect... a pry tool like a screw driver or chisel or utility knife should be sufficient. But if you have a lot of items to tear off or a lot of boards to process... I suggest an air hammer to quickly and easily rip them off. If the boards are the size of a holiday or birthday card, or smaller, and you're wanting to strip it bare... check out Moose's other video about a hot sand bath.
What are the cylinder parts? Are they worth anything
Doesn't damaging the parts reduce they're worth? If there are no leads left on the part can it still be soldered onto a board?
Would it be a bad idea to sand bath motherboards and just separate everything after you get it off?
+ManiaOperativa The bigger the board the more heat it sapps out of the sand and will take longer. But yes, you can do it that way and just use a piece of window screen to sift out the sand. Personally for mother boards, I remove what I want for gold recovery by hand. Yeah it takes a little longer, but when you know what you are digging for you can process them pretty quickly. Thanks!
What did you pull that big circuit board out of.
How can you tell which IC chips have gold & which ones don't? I have jars full of them from various boards & would like to sort them for further gold refining.
hey moose, love your videos!
just a quick question for you - is it possible to scrap the diodes on the pcb? are they not aluminum? I googled it but came up empty...thanks!
I removed the chip from the circuit board will it affect anything like that sells on the board
Mr. Scrapper, what are the little cylinder capacitors called. They are brown with darker brown or orange stripes on the ends. Kind of the shape of a tylenol.
hard to say without seeing but sounds like a resistor.
Moose Scrapper yep, I googled resistor and that's what it is. Are they worth anything, worth collecting?
Not that I know of but I will be the first to admit there is a LOT about thos little componants that I do not know.
so when you collect these precious metals what do you do with them then?
I liked how you were informative in the video. Doing a good job~
+moose scrapper is it worth actually removing the chips. i had 30 lbs of low grade and 8 lbs of high grade boards. after removing all the chips it was all low grade. i only received $.10/lb on the boards. so is it actually worth removing them from the high grade?
Value is a completely subjective thing. There are a lot of variables as well. What are you scrapping for, the most money, is gold recovery an income or hobby? Does your yard pay much more for high grade vs low grade? For me, its worth it because my yard pays one price for boards, and I enjoy the gold recovery hobby. Its not a source of income that I rely on. I think that's the best answer I can come up with.
+Moose Scrapper unfortunately my yard pays separate prices per each grade of board. right now I'm in the stages of collecting the gold to process. i have several 5 gal buckets full of boards that need to be processed. just from land line phones.
Will scrap yards still accep motherboard after many stuff has been removed ?
Most won’t
Awesome video series on the electronic stuff. Lots of stuff learned there. I'm just starting to get involved with scrapping out computers since its basically untapped around here. I've been in the auto salvage business for several years now, but this would give me something to do after its dark. The ultimate question to me is, how far should I go when breaking down the boards? Cut the fingers off and send the rest to boardsort? Or is worth taking all the IC's off? If you yank the IC's, will somebody buy the rest? I'd appreciate your thoughts.
I think that you get the most bang for your buck, and time, by starting off recovering gold from the fingers. Boardsort will still buy the rest of the ram and pci card without it. Its gets your feet wet so to speak with gold recovery. Then you can decide if you want to venture further. The big thing to remember is the volume needed to get decent results. You can spend hours plucking gold plated pins for only a gram or two of gold, or you can spend a fraction of the time, sorting and shipping to boardsort. Once the IC is removed from the RAM, they wont buy it.
Moose Scrapper Thats exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks again and keep on scrapping!
What are the boards made out of that don't have copper or brass moose?
how long does it take you to depopulate your motherboards also in the audio jacks on the motherboards i tore one of them apart and appear to be gold plated like i thought maybe just the tips would be but they appear to be completely plated/painted. any insight into this would be great thanks.
Luke Ketelhut hI THERE, It takes me about 10 minutes to depopulate a mother board. I am a bit selective as to what I take off though. The parts inside the jacks are indeed gold plated.
Moose Scrapper thanks i'd have to say i'm very new at this cause i take a lot longer to do mine and thanks on the audio pins poped the vga port open on a old video card. it looks like military grade plated lol. thanks
Where can you sell the boards once they are stripped of the IC chips and some of the other valuable components? Would boardsort still buy them depopulated? Do they become low grade boards or do they retain their original value? Thanks in advance for any response.
karakantouvalos Hi there, they are dropped in value after removing the valuable items. If you are going to pick the boards I would probably not suggest trying to sell them to places you have to ship to because you have to pay for shipping and the value will drop so you will get paid a lot less, some places you will lose money. If you strip, sell to the scrap yard. Thanks!
OK, thanks for your very prompt response. I was thinking along the same lines. I think I'll just leave those IC chips on the boards for now. Yes, I know what you mean about shipping! The cost of shipping some items is becoming prohibitive.
I found a laptop board that has dark orange capacitors and I think they may be tantalum due to the shape and size. But I've never seen this color. Also heard blue caps are tantalum?
I still struggle with tantallum. Original feets knows a lot more, check out his channel and ask him, he has a few vids I think on just those. Best of luck to you!
My question to you and I would love to see a video on it is a financial breakdown. Yes the IC chips are valuable but when you take them off you devalue the board as a whole. I struggle with knowing where that line is of which way of doing what is truly the most bang for your buck. Ic chips are a lot easier and less bulky to ship so that’s a huge factor too. Great videos!
That is an incredibly difficult if not impossible question to answer. Its all relative. For me, the nearest place I can take boards to physically only pays between 3-10 cents per pound. The good thing is they dont care what condition they are in, you do not have to sort at all, and you can pick off them. The bad thing is that there are boards worth a few dollars a pound, and they still pay 3-10 cents per pound. For those boards, it makes more sense for me to try to freight them to a refiner like Boardsort.com. For someone like Ewaste Mike, he lives reasonably close to Boardsort so he can pack a trailer up and make a road trip so for him it does not make sense to pick items off the board. The only way to determine which route is best for you is to do your own research into local buyers, and play with freight calculators for online refiners. Sadly thats about the best answer I can give. Hope that helps.
So my son has this fascination for getting these boards.. He is 11 how can I help him and as a mom what do I need to do with helping him and keeping his safety in mind?
I don't. I sell them for gold recovery. I wish knew enough about these things to be able to sell them, I hear there is some money in that. Thanks for watching!
The best way that I could say would be to visit the goldrefiningforum. They have lots of info and videos and tips. Pyrolysis is the most common method which is basically burning them in an oxygen deprived environment so they do not creat as much toxic chemicals. Originalfeets has a video on that as well. It is a multi step process that starts with pyrolysis, then goes to either an A/P bath or aqua regia. I do not process my chips unfortunately. Thanks for watching!
I typically sell them to boardsort the website. They buy it in bulk by the lb. The only real separating I do with them if I have enough, and with these volume matters, I will separate eproms, plastic, ceramic, and gold pinned ones. Plastic ones will get the lowest price followed by ceramic, gold pinned, then eproms. The more valuable ones can be sold on ebay with a little more patience. Just set your price and wait. Thanks!
You have a video on how to pull pins off of the "green" boards.
what about ceramic boards? is it the same process?
Hi and thanks for watching. I do not think I have ever seen a ceramic board? Where did you get it from?
ITS A INTEL CHIP
OOOhhh, So its not a ceramic circuit board, you just have a cermic CPU chip, gotcha. SO far the only tried and true method for gold recovery from those buggers is to use Aqua Regia. I don't use nitric acid at all so I will not be of much help with that. I just know that you are supposed to break up the CPU a good bit then set in a beacker for the AR. This spring I will be doing soem experimentation on using other methods but would not dare to share any of that now and risk someone losing their gold.
ua-cam.com/video/tQ_R8Gr26kk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Hv4CcaTVJqY/v-deo.html
If you not worried about using the chips or capacitors again, using a heat gun makes the process so much easier. Just be careful not to burn up the board. You just want it hot enough to melt the solder. Smoke from burnt pcbs is horrible to breath in. Use a respirator or fume hood for safety purposes.
the pins from the IC chips are they anything special? Im just starting out with electronic scrapping trying to get as much info as possible so i dont get overwhelming trying to figure it out. also i have ribbon wire that has what looks like silver ends instead of gold? do you know what type of metal it is?
Good stuff man learned alot.
Just got into scraping ..I'll subscribe keep them videos coming. Thanks
Thanks for watching!! make sure you check out my chanel! There are over 100 videos there!
Thanks!
what can be done with plain circuit boards (Just the green fiberglass ) after the process of recovering all the precious metal is done?
There are companies that buy them for the copper tracing and solder and they also recycle the board material. I don't strip my boards down that far so I am not sure of any specific names, I just know they are out there. Thanks!
Niral Pawar
Many thing
Hey Moose....there is a carpet tool that has a 2" (est.) thin, sharp wheel. I'm going to use this for IC removal where I can get to them.....chisel for the others. Much faster.... Did you experiment with my clothes iron heating element for board depopulation yet? Hope it gets hot enough to heat the sand bath.
lol! I sold a lot of tubes on ebay recently for over $110 USD as well! They were unused in their boxes though. Thanks for the info on the chips, I'll start looking! Thanks!
The little things you say have gold brazed edges, once you pull off the tops, have the prettiest gold wire and pads you'll ever see.
What about the a5 chip from apple tv?
How to take them off and how much does it worth?
Good question, I dont know, never seen an apple tv. Wish I could be more helpful. Best of luck to you!
Hey Moose, what IC chips have the gold "wire fibers" in them? I know the flat packs with gold lead on the corner and such but curious if ALL IC's are worth processing. I realize that's both an open ended question and people will have their own take on it but I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm not going to burn up 50 lbs of IC's for an ounce of silver.....thanks and YOU ROCK!
Great question, one that I am not sure I know how to answer. THe flat packs have gold, the IC's on ram chips have gold bonding wires, as for all the rest, I honestly do not know. I have craked opne a lot while removing them from boards and have fould a lot that have no gold in them that I could see. What I do is take the ones I know have gold and save them to process my self, and sell all the rest. The goldrefiningforum might have better info for you, or GEO, he has a channel with a video series on recovering gold from them. Thanks!
is it better to separate all the components and IC's into their elements, or better to sell bags of capacitors and IC's in the condition i pulled them off the board.
Im curious as I can not find the info on my mobile device. I have conection flat cable labelled sumitomo-c awm 20624 80c 60v vw-1 -f- and I do not know if its worth keeping. It shines like silver or platinum but I cant find comfirmation online. Have you discovered the type of metal they contain?
Truth Seeker often its aluminum. Sometimes silver plated, either way, PM value is so low its not worth recovering.
do the taller tube type blue capacitors have any value or pm in them
+Amber Moss no, they just have aluminum as far as I am aware. (and other chemicals inside of course, just the only metal is Al)
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You are absolutely correct! Scrap is the LOWEST value of an item and every attempt should be made to sell the item if still working first. The videos I create are simply how-to's for scrappers. And in many instances, the only time I scrap many items is for the purpose of a video. As for the IC's etc, I unfortunately do not posses the knowledge, or time to reasearch, and carefully remove these chips. I also have no way of testing them to see if they work. If you see me pulling a board out..
Sorry, my bad, was thinking of something else. Will fix it. Thanks for watching!
Can you strip any circuit board or is it just computers because I have a ton of tv boards , tv remote boards and all sorts of circuit boards from random electronics
Hi, I have 3 PC's that were back when windows 95 and 98 are they of any value..also do Floor model TV's from 1990 have any gold in them? BTW Great Video Man..
I can't tell you thank you enough for saying who you use as a scrapping company! I have been trying to find this information out! Do you have a refiner too?