Destiny 2 Lore (LIVE) - Liminality, The Witness & The Ahamkara... With
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Check out the Final Shape: bung.ie/MyNameisByf Destiny 2's Lore & Story from the Liminality strike shows us a glimpse into the Witness' past. Today @unknownplayer03 and I will be exploring it, discussing the Wish Dragon lore that can be found within, going over the secrets of the strike. #bungiecreator #sponsored
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Should call live lore readings "Lectures"
I second this.
I vote to immediately put this into motion as The Third
I'm a fourth vote and would love to enroll in the Lore of Destiny course
Indeed
"liminality lore lecture"
Imagine being that first Taken Wizard. You think you've landed the cushiest job in the whole Pale Heart: just chilling, guarding some dusty old skulls, and you even get a free immunity shield. Then the Guardian shows up, and immediately goes "I wish you would explode and die instantly" and you don't even get the chance to fight back
"Blows up wizard with wish"
The witness: "my fucking wizar-"
BOOOOOM
cast power word- Death
The Guardian: I've got one word for u maggot......boom
*blows up taken wizard with mind*
I think the ahamkara are the original users of prismatic (both light and dark) because everything we've seen in how the inside of the traveler works in tandem with darkness and how the witness was achieving its goal, it all clearly displays that it takes both darkness (thought) and light (material) to bring a person's "desires into reality" which is the ahamkara's whole thing. I think without really realizing it yet, we've put ourselves on their level and accessed how they use "wish magic"
I thought bungie confirmed our guardian discovered prismatic? Like strand.
@iponce2 I'm talking more about the fundamentals of the in universe rules bungie has set. Idk if they themselves even realize it but they've just defined how wish magic works through this expansion and it's the combination of both light and dark otherwise known as the ability to bring thought into being
@@icarusrising2787wish magic is completely different from using the light in the dark
Dread language lectures when?!!?!!?
On the pyramid town architecture, I really love the Pompeii connection with the rising lava swallowing the town and the funerary flowers for precursors being subsumed into the Witness, but the sloped walls and literal pyramid shapes remind me more of ancient Egyptian architecture, specifically their monumental temples (Luxor and Karnak among others), which resemble not just the town's architecture and layout, but also the big outer wall of the Sacrarium and the ogre boss fight arena.
I love that crow was probably the first person to actually ask us why tf are we just standing there and not intervening with zavala.
There's also, when you pull out your Ghost when you get new objectives, you get quotes of someone talking or reaching out to you. I couldn't decide if it was the Ahamkara or the Dissenters
given that the gardener and winnower left the black garden and appeared on the precursor homeworld, perhaps the vex, ahamkara, and flowers spilled out
10:30 is when his mic turns on. 😅
It's not a creator livestream without some scuf. Hah
MVP
I was just looking in the comments for this 😂😂
Thanks, me too. I was solidly confused.
Bros voice is so majestic but he looks so innocent 😭🙏🏻
You think Drifter would harvest the wall meat for food? I highly doubt he'd pass up the chance to taste Ahamkara if he hasn't already.
Of course he would, if that's what he wished.
This format is quite something, please consider bringing us more lore videos like this, very enjoyable!
This has me thinking that maybe the “worms” in the garden that the Darkness spoke about in an old lore page was actually the Ahemkara.
It's commonly accepted that the "bugs" in the Garden became Ahamkara, whereas the Worms became the Worm Gods.
@@christianyaerger1751I have never heard or seen that anywhere and according to bungie the worm gods were whales that live in fundaments oceans the same planet the Hive are from
Joxer the Titan was involved in the Great Hunt, his mind was spread out impacting the portal trying to get in the Pale Heart. But so were Zavala and Ikora. Uldren/Crow had Riven. Cayde, not even sure because no lore really showed him deal with them. The Witness might have had that Ahamkara Disciple?
But you could assume Ahamkara were in the Traveler when the Witness went in and punished them for being an obstacle. Because the Dissenters maybe been able to make wishes against the Final Shape, and this was the response against the Ahamkara. Which is why it could have taken so long for the Final Shape to happen because the Witness had to Bind out the high number of Dissenters (note the amount of Dissenter statues from this section up through the Campaign end is HIGHER than anywhere else in the Pale Heart), and lockdown all the Ahamkara?
33:28 is when you finally should actually listen
Thanks bro
Goated comment
Speak for yourself. I love the banter. 😊
I really think the two of you have kept interest in Destiny stable for so long, and in different ways. Love the collab. And, credit to you both.
I love that bungie sponsored you. There are many people (myself included) who rely on your videos for lore.
49:23 Couple things: A large part of why those "remains" from Pompeii look so uncanny (an element which has made it into the non-Dissenter statues, I see) is because they're plaster casts of the spaces left behind after the soft tissues of the victims have sloughed and sublimated away over the centuries - those aren't bodies, those are the impressions that bodies have left behind. Also, the neighboring town that also fell victim to that eruption was Herculaneum.
The memories of all the main characters (The Witness, Cayde, Crow, Ikora, Zavala, Savathun, Mithrax, Caitl, Mara, and everyone else who helps us in Excision) are what led to the amalgamation. Our own presence alters the environment around us in subtle ways. Some memories are more profound than others and, more importantly, some memories overlap. The Witness, the Vanguard, Savathun, and many others were present during the Great Hunt (and prior. There's potentially a huge period of time between the Collapse/Dark Age and the Great Hunt). The amalgamation of memories we see in this strike is definitely intriguing.
I also get the impression that, while the environment is indeed created from our memories, the Witness has also "left their mark". I got the impression that all the statues we see, as well as any "multi-material" environment pieces, are all directly "shaped" by the Witness.
A third consideration is that perhaps the Traveler itself has some form of memory that has contributed to the "shape" of the destination.
My speculation is that perhaps this all comes from the Witness, via the Precursors. What if the Precursors actually used Ahamkara to become the Witness? What if the Precursors created the Ahamkara? What if the Witness "reshaped" the Ahamkara into the Worm Gods (or vice versa)? The Winnower discovered the First Knife (Witness) after the Gardener added a "new rule" (Ahamkara) to the Flower Game (our reality ... or simulation?).
'Molten reality' might be a better way to describe the Traveler pus.
That goes hard.
33:10 is when it begins
I love how the darkness / precursor architecture from the beginning on is so Lovecraftian. If you ever read “at the mountains of madness” and pay attention to the descriptions of the dark city architecture you can’t unsee it. So for me from the first time we entered the pyramid I was all in on the great old ones. Then playing VoW it all came together. And now it’s all deconstructed in final shape. Love it.
just wanna say, i found you randomly and since then im a big fan of your work. your videos are high quality in content and you explain the lore wonderful. keep it up mate :D
Very much enjoyed this format of play-through and discussion, when it makes sense for you and workflows, I would enjoy seeing more :) -- thanks Byf and Unknown :)
I thought the reason there were Ahamkara bones in the strike was because Crow and Cayde scouted ahead of everyone and Crow being with Cayde had "You're back because a dead Ahamkara granted my wish" type thoughts running through his mind.
Please do more of these, amazing to listen to.
Thank you for this, I love those ply and tell videos. Those are always very interesting.
Lore Livestreams are great!
I think one of my favorite streams I saw was when Barb, you, and Broman did the dungeon in season of the Deep. Getting that first reaction to all the lore points was so good!
Wishing with an Ahamkara in a nutshell: I CAST EXPLOSION!!
Imagine, the Gardener is just a massive ahamkara
I think there are also Ahamkara bones in The Impasse as well, near the pyramid buildings.
Love this real time lore streamx, hope to see more in the future
I wonder if where the vex keep building the black heart is where the precursors found the veil
Fantastic stuff!
THe name for the other city near Pompeji that Byf was looking for was Herculaneum.
Byf, I have been watching your channel since the day before Shadowkeep’s launch. To this day I can still listen to your videos and drift into a peaceful sleep. You do such a tremendous job ensnaring our attention with your content. It’s one thing to explain the lore, but you do it in such a way that vividly paints an image in our minds. Keep up the great work and stay safe out there!
19:46 THAT'S WHAT THEY REMINDED ME OF! I recognized them but could not place them and it's been nagging me since TFS came out!
Great stream, looking forward to more
Byf mentioning SCPs, life is perfect
This was so dope. More streams please 🙏
In the descriptions of unveiling when the garden is torn down, they describe worms and flies. Being scattered into the universe. We know exactly two naturally pericausal creatures in the universe, the worms, and the dragons. I've always assumed that this is why
Congrats on the sponsorship stream by Bungie thats so cool!!
It's good to see your face Byf. That doesn't happen often. Great video as always! God bless you!
Even with all those glass minds, the witness didnt predict our boots up his ass 😂
great stream
Cool Calm Confident Commander on the Comms - say that five times fast xD
Awesome stuff, as always. Very enjoyable!
Thanks, Bungie.
On the point of the witness being in the black garden (around 58:29 ) there was a lore entry (I totally forget where) where the vex seem to describe the witness passing through the black garden? At least I think thats what the entry dictated
We’ve seen enough Backrooms and connecting Liminal Space to this is awesome
Perhaps the memories of the ahamkara fighting guardians are Riven’s. It was Crow’s wish granted by Riven that gave us access to the Pale Heart so maybe some of her memories are represented in the Pale Heart too
Would absolutely watch this as a stream, especially if you did the raid. UA-cam alerts let me down and I didn't find it until the next day.
So essentialy ahamkara are the destiny equivalent to the monkeys paw. Even dead, they can grant a wish but not in the way you expect.
I don't suppose there's any correlation between the vases on the table in the little room before the village and the nine? There are 9 jars on the table, one knocked over. This could be the [deceased] witness represented, and the witness could be one of the nine? It speaks in a similar way I think from how the emissary speaks in prophecy and those weird drifter missions.
RE all the ahamkara memories, I just assumed it was because of all the ahamkara bones that we wear.
Right off the bat, totally back at the cosmadrome.
1:21:49 that statue looks like a man holding a baby, and the silhouette gives me roman/greek vibes too.
You should always be concerned when there are guts in the walls!
There is another stone tablet in the discent mission but it looks like it has the same text as the ones in luminality.
As to the strength of wishes, I was under the impression that it has as much to do with the strength of the desire/wisher as the strength of the ahamkara. Iirc, the 3 week cycle comes at least partly from the guardians' wish during the raid to 'save' the dreaming city.
Just curious but what if the Ahamkara are the “Rule” that the Gardener makes in the unveiling book that allows for complexity. They follow the traveler around and if the witness does view them as an opposite that would explain why
Have we considered the idea that the actual mechanism for how the rules of existence change are the ahamkara specifically and not paracausal power in general?
Could you imagine that the Ahamkara were created by the Precursors who were against the Merging? As to counteract the Witness in itself?
You know what we need. We need to have voice actors playing the part of our fireteam as we do events. Like they were actually in that world.
You don't do this on coms when you play?...
I was wondering when I was playing through this, what the hell dead Ahamkara were doing inside the Traveller, are these their actual bones or just memories from some species conquered by the Witness and its forces being remade, I remember Xivu Arath in the Books of Sorrow going after users of Wish Magic, and it was speculated they were using Ahamkara to fight the Hive.
I cant believe that Byf looks EXACTLY like my younger brother
Wasn’t the titan that died trying to enter the traveler a part of the great hunt?
I would love some more live stuff, maybe I can make it to the next one
question... you're standing on that huge Ahamkara skull, on that little patch of taken/blight stuff (1:19:08). it seems to be flashing/reflecting light up/at you & KnownPlayer. is that like the flash of light that Zavala sees, done by a Dissenter/Precursor with a Shard? if so, it's a nice story tie-in element.
I thought the faces and stuff were Zavala the whole time. Zavala has been the leader of the Vanguard this whole time, and if you can make the leader question and falter you make the whole organization question and falter. Makes sense to me that the witness is focused in on breaking Zavala. I felt like a good chunk of the campaign was focused on Zavala's loss and grief dealing with that loss.
To add to "liminality" -- from an anthropological perspective, it is often used in moments of cultural transition, such as a graduation ceremony, or rituals in some native cultures from childhood into adulthood; these individuals, for a moment in time, are "stuck" between cultural moments/states.
In this context, it can be applied to the Witness as it is attempting to harness the Light; it is attempting to transcend reality, and impose change on reality itself.
As Luzaku says, the Light -- and liminality itself -- can be found between one decision and another, between one breath and another.
And now that I think about it, I wonder if the Dissenters are liminal as well. Though cut off from the rest of the Witness's mentality, their psychic substance still contributes to the scaffolding of its construction; they're compartmentalized, but still contribute to the greater whole. So in a way, Dissenters are stuck in a liminal space as well.
My boy Byf getting thicc with the lore
48:03 the dread language !
I kinda wonder if the memories of the wish dragons were from the precursors like imagine if they used the wish dragons to get the knowledge that they can use the darkness to makeup The Witness given that the traveler blissed them with technology but not the blessing of the light with ghost and the power of resurrection so then say they use the wish dragons to get that info to become the witness but then murder the rest of the dragons in their timeline. 🤔
What if Savathun's twisting and machinations that crippled the Harmony and broke the Ahamkara turned them away from their original food source? Meaning, what if the Ahamkara during the days of the Harmony before the Hive came into their system did not need to rely on twisting wishes to survive? It may have just been a fully peaceful civilization like what we can deduce thanks to the Books of Sorrow. But, the cunning shown by the Ahamkara who were born after the Harmony were destroyed seems eerily familiar to Savathun's drive for lies and deceit. And what better way to ensure a consistent flow of "worship" than through twisting another race to become your source of sustenance. (See Xivu Arath and her conquest of Torobatl through the Cabal's war-centered lifestyle.)
So if darkness creates memories, and we now see memories from the traveler. Does that mean the traveler could have nightmares? Which if thats true, could Nezarec now inhabit the traveler as the blade of the winnower?
Major thought here: what if the reason the dissenters exist within the Witness is because of the fact that one of them made a wish that the Penitent would fail in their efforts???
I wonder if there are hidden secrets in the strike. Could explain why there is a backtracking path.
I'm still getting through the video so I'm not sure if this gets covered but I'll forget to comment if I don't say it now 😅
Do you think there's any chance the Witness brought an Ahamkara into the Traveller? If they've ran into each other before and have opposing ideals then it's possible the Witness has one as a prisoner on board a Pyramid ship, and takes it into the Traveller as a backup plan incase something goes wrong? I don't think there's much to support this aside from the strike itself but there's always a chance 😊
Also (perhaps more unlikely) maybe there was a dissenter Ahamkara that wanted revenge for its kind so became one of the Witnesses disciples? Maybe it could have been an Echo?
❤
Question for byf, do you think that xivu arath in her prime can beat kratos from god of war Ragnarok
So if the light makes the memories real, would that then mean that they are in fact real Ahamkarah bones?
Oh wow, this was not how I thought Byf would look… I thought he’d be a sorta… aged wizard by his voice
Could the witness have made a wish before he died? And could the echos be pieces of the witness?
Ahamkara are free willed versions of the traveller? Also could the ahamkara are the embodiment of the rule the gardener to make room for change. An embodiment of free will?
1:19:55 Also, also: How many expansions' worth of content have we had, dealing with the consequences of Ahamkara wishes? And you want to apply one of those to a glorified shortcut? Yeah, no.
missed it damn...
Official Start at 33:12
Was I the only one who got the impression from this strike that the witness use an akamkara wish to become what he is an absorbe the others
I also think the precursers use a akamkara wish to create the witness
Haha 😂 was skipping through wondering if your mic would turn on. I was laughing and feeling bad that the whole video might have been silent and you didn’t notice 😅
Is started out so confident lol.. 😅
@@MynameisByf finished strong tho. All that matters :)
Handsome fella if I do say so myself.👌
First time seeing byf and I gotta say WTF?!?!
Does anyone know if this will be a Nightfall this Episode? That’d be awesome
It is indeed.
Could the Witness have been formed as a product of an Ahamkara wish??
YO, THIS DUDE ACTUALLY PLAYS THE GAME??
🤣
Poor Byf fell victim to one of the classic blunders: letting his computer update and not double-checking/reconfiguring his settings before going live on stream
1:07:42 sounds like bro got taken
Then the witness is the anti-spiral
As someone who works in radio, I understand why people are bothered by "ums" an "ahs".
What is the precursor’s planet is the black garden?
This HR steam was funny 🤦♂️🤦♂️
THE FLOOR IS PUS!