After watching this video I grew a handlebar mustache and listened to 'Rule Britannia' for half an hour. Great video though, you really have reloading for this cartridge down to a science.
HOMEGA10 Oh, she will,...... she will,..... Stare into her eyes, wave your palm across her face gently, and say, "this IS the moustache you've been looking for,......" If she doesn't roll her eyes and call you an idiot, you've got 'er... :-)
Thanks a lot. I noticed on you video that the bullet with the largest diameter got a very tight group for a Martini. What sould I expect for accuracy. Is 2 to 3 moa realistic for this rifle.
Great job Rob, I have been paper patching the .45/70 and the .50/90 Sharps for my Sharps rifles. I have been wiping between shots, getting impressive results. I use Roosters paper patch lube to moisten the patch when I patch the bullet. Next step will be to work up a hunting load so I can shoot. 3-5 accurate shots with out wiping.
+Hugh Batesel Nice! It's so difficult to wipe with the MH.... For best accuracy with any BP rifle, I think that is the best practice, though. It's not particularly appropriate in the military context (either service or range related) but if absolute best results were to be had, I think this is a technique that would deserve attention. The blow tube certainly seems to be a reasonable (and period) solution... Cheers.
This is a great video on how to load the martini Henry cartridge. I have all I need to load my cartridges thanks to X-Ring Services. I just have to find some FFg powder and wait for the 12mm punch to arrive, then the fun begins,
thank you so much for showing us this incredible information and remaking history I contacted you maybe a little over a month ago and told you that you got me into buying my first Martini Henry and recreating the ammunition well I just wanted two tell you that I've made my first batch of Martini Henry ammunition and I am very excited to finally shoot it I will let you know the results I followed your paper patch method to the T thank you again and please keep doing what you do
+Anon Hunter Thank you very much. Yes, there are many accounts of Martinis that were too hot. Leather handguards were used unofficially from the late 1870s, and were later, by the early 1880s, produced as an issue item.
There is a greatly therapeutic nature to these videos. I could watch them endlessly (and not like that's anything different from the rest). There is just something rather calming about watching the somewhat extensive, reloading process of an antiquated cartridge...
Great video. My grandfather had a Martini Henry dated 1887. When you looked at the barrel end you could see that it had been sleeved twice, once for .303 Enfield and then for .22 Long Rifle. It bore the stamp "Converted by CG Bonehill of Birmingham for the Soceity of Minature Rifle Clubs. As I didn't have a FAC I had to hand it in .... sadly. But I did shoot it before that .... in .22 LR. So heavy there was no perceptible recoil. Pretended I was at Rourke's Drift for 5 minutes.
+john marsh That's too bad... 1887? Was it a Mk IV?... I can imagine the docile recoil with the .22. There is a VERY perceptible recoil with full bore rounds, mind you!... :-)...
This video really helpful me reload my 100 rounds of Kynoch Martini ammo I bought, thought I didn't have to cast new bullet lead I did have to re-paper patch the bullets after priming them with a non corrosive primer and proper black powder instead of cordite, but now I have a video to help me cast my bullets when I get ready to reload my Martini ammo this coming week Thanks!
Great! Although I haven't had any experience with old Kynoch brass, I have heard of them being a bit fragile... Perhaps annealing them will help with longevity...
I just happened across you when doing some research on the 1871 valise equipment and I am impressed. Your videos are very informative and interesting to watch.
+britishmuzzleloaders It's just that too often shooters get caught up in the new and flashy (which there's nothing wrong with) when there's just as much (well, probably quite a bit more) joy and satisfaction from the nuts and bolts DIY aspect of the hobby. The monetary savings are nice, too.
I always found paper patched bullets interesting. On a side note, at 15:26 are you wearing hob nail shoes? I like your commitment to historical details.
Your videos are fantastic and I'm very glad to have run across your channel. Thank you for these, they're fascinating. Watched a few others and I know I'll enjoy going back through the rest.
This wensday my martini mk2 arrives. And also thanks to you I was able to identify it as British made. Now I'll save up so I can contact Martin about reloading dyes and molds for bullets.
I LOVE! Seabee! or Rednecked? Engineering! Get it done with What You Have. Must admit "I Would" try cotton thinking about military distractions' of yours' or enemies' info. Cant believe I watched this dude this long? and old is new again, but I have learned more black powder tech?
I have to admit its amazing to see this done and then think of the munitions workers that did this sort of work everyday for countless millions of rounds.
Great video and great choice of background music...I heard Braganza/Lass o Gowrie and Sir Manly Power/Paddys Resource. Both Queens and Middlesex Regiment marches. Thank you.
The total process of casting the bullets, patching them and the steps to assembling each round is considerable. The recoil abuse of 85 grains of black power and a 500 grain bullet provide are all factors revealing just how determined you are to shoot a Martini-Henry 577/450 rifle.
First time out with my Martini was good . Took ten paper patched .459 cast bullets with 80 grains FF. Fresh from IMA I fired two rounds to verify it was safe with a sandbag on the action. Six were in a three inch group with two fliers. I am happy. Next group will be patched closer to .470
Fantastic info, I am just about to cast for a chap who shoots the Martini, and I needed to get my head around all the info I could absorb, I will continue to subscribe and possibly look for my own Martini, cheers
One factor that can be important is the direction of wrapping on the paper patch, it is said to be better to wrap, (as you have done), so that the patch will unwrap on exiting the muzzle, although, as in your video ,the patch should be cut by the rifling into small strips, it is a good idea to follow the clockwise wrap, (looking from the rear of the bullet), for right hand twist barrels. and of course anti clock, for left hand twist barrels.
great info. I just picked up a Canadian Mk1, one of the few actually issued (marked on butt) Looks like great fun to shoot. I just happen to have an 1875p saw back bayonet that fits the Martini Henry, no insp. marks so most likely for a volunteer unit.
I use the .460 parallel bullet and onion paper. Works well. Instead of using a cotton ball I use something sold at Buffalo arms. It is a black powder filler and has lubricant in it. This works very well as this works with the cookie. I get good groupings at 100yds.
Mr. britishmuzzleloader, you might try one egg white in about a cup of warm water as your bullet patching mixture. You can moisten the patch on a sponge dampened with this mixture. I think you’ll find that the patch adheres tighter and quite well to the bullet. Cheers!
One small and easy method you can try, is to on wrapping on the patch, instead of "crimping" the end, if you hold your finger and thumb on each side of the bullet base, and turn the bullet with your right hand, it will turn in the patch evenly, all around the base, (like an old type sweet wrapper), this does away with the notchy base and will save the rolling process, I also take advantage of the loose fit bullet, and only neck size after loading, this grips the bullet just enough to stop it falling out.
+britishmuzzleloaders : I have tried both bases, I swage my bullets on my home made swaging die, so I only have to change the shape of the punch, but it does not appear to make any difference, with or without, if a lot of length of patch is left to overhang, the cupped base is probably better, but with you short tailed patch the flat base is easiest, the cup is really only useful to tuck the excess patch into. Chris.
+Englishman French That's what I am led to believe... The cupped base allows for better seating of the bullet on the wads by allowing for room for the "twist" of paper. Cheers.
Hi ! Exelllent video as allways Rob! I am still struggeling to get my Mk IV to behave. Will test different loads this winter . Hard cast bullets helped. Keep up the good work! Greetings, Alf!
+oljerigg Hi Alf. I too found that harder bullets worked better. I only use 20-1 vs the service 12-1... Tin is so expensive. Mk IVs tend to have a bit of a bigger bore. What are you patching to?
+britishmuzzleloaders Hi ,Rob! im in the planning state when it comes to pp. Need to get me a mold.What do you recommend? (Mk IV) Greetings from Norway,Alf!
oljerigg Hi Alf. Aim for a mould that will give you .471 or so for the Mk IV... Tom at accurate will work with you to accommodate different sizes on existing designs... Of course, you need to determine what paper you will be using... measure it and add the sum of four thicknesses to the bullet, this is the total that should measure .471/2... I have had great initial success with my PP mould (in this video).. The .457, parallel sided version, that is. Get one in .459 and I should think that it would be OK in your Mk IV... or you could use mine... I thought that the fatter "shoulders" of the parallel sided style might engage the bore in a more positive way than the tapered service-style bullet... I need to do more testing, but as I have found, things are pretty good right away...! Cheers. PS I think that Tom lists my bullet as a 46-510 PP
Another outstanding video. Makes me want to obtain a few rds to put through my Martini wall hanger brought home from Afghanistan...from a vice...at a distance....with a long piece of string activating the trigger...
Victorian soldiers would probably be more than puzzled if they saw how much effort it takes to shoot a Martini nowadays! Great video, I wondered if you could get a hold of a thermal camera one day? I'm very curious about how hot a Martini barrel gets under rapid fire, and it would be a very informative video IMO
+lptomtom HI there. 10 rounds rapid will make the barrel too hot to hold on to... 20 rounds will make it too hot to touch... That's the actual barrel, mind you... A common practice was to wrap a leather guard around the back of the barrel and forestock to protect the hand, on active service. I can't speak to the number of degrees it reaches, but functionally it doesn't take long. As for the ammo, it was rather more complicated back then, what with the rolled brass cartridges.... the case had to be folded in at the neck and then the bullet crimped into that... I doubt if one could replicate this procedure without some sort of somewhat sophisticated equipment.. Cheers.
In service these rounds were manufacture at the Woolwich Arsenal on the South Bank of the River Thames at Woolwich on the South East edge of London. . filling took place in a long brick building, known in the 1860's as Building 12. Loading was done by children with Adult supervision. Needless to say powder spilt, working it's way into the grain of wooden benches. It was not unknown for a trail of powder to be sparked, wether by accident or delibrately. Mostly there was apprently a shrpSphitt type noise and everyone jumped. On one occasion this effect ran away causing panic and everyone running from the building. Officially the two sides of the doors at the end of the building should have swung open till they hit against the wall. However newly installed gas lamps on the outside of the building stopped this and the doors only opened 90 degrees. In the resulting crush a number (Exact escapes me at the moment) of Adults and children died. Subsequently one of the first Enquirys in industrial acccident deaths in the UK was carried out. The result blamed one the hildren for taking 'Illigal' material into the shed, and causing sparks.
I guess the children who did this in Burningham 145 years ago could have gave you lessons on this process? Great video, gave me ideas for doing this, thx.
+Greg King Funny you mention that Greg (and thanks, by the way)... I have some time coming (now confirmed) in September of this year.... The intent is to pay a visit to your side. Just need some timings and an RV and I'll make best effort to be there. Exciting stuff!
I`m sure we have an event round aout then. Its the smoker at Bisley ranges in Feb I will speak to Sgt Harman about events and timings. Oh by the way we are stopping in Canada house at the ranges. Happy new year to you and your family.
+Greg King And a very happy New Year to you and yours! I do hope that something works out around that time, too. Definitely looking forward to the possibility of visiting and learning from the Diehards. Hope the smoker is full of white smoke and good times!
It's fun to shoot paper patch slugs...i use 2 types of loads ..one load I call a military type and another called creedmore...i get them to to shoot minute of angle and that's with a ten shot string...no blow tube with the military style not necessary if you shoot fast...
Scary but forty years ago with a .457 bullet and patched out to .470 , loaded pretty much the same way you did I had similar results with 85 grs. of two F under a beeswax and paper wad with a 475 grain bullet. I took out a cougar at a paced out 400 yards downhill at a shallow angle. It was with a long lever Mk. IV. I guess times don't change what really works.
Great Video wish you would have done this Paper Patching earlier would have saved me a lot of trial and error mostly error . I enjoy watching your chanel and yes I have Subscribed. Cheers from down under.
+mrbikehunter Hope that you are up and running with your paper patches now. Does your process differ any from mine? Glad you enjoyed the video. Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders I ended up with a 457 lee bullet PP it shoots quite well. The paper patching i do was gleaned from several different sources must have guessed correctly to be the same as yours . I have an A4 template that I use with a guillotine cutter and for that puckering I have a block of alloy with a conical hole drilled in it that i put the bullet in and move it round and round . I enjoy history that I can touch started out with a Snider just like Ned Kellys (Australian Bushranger) he robbed the bank at Euroa in 1879 with one he called Betty then i just had to have a Martini like yours and I already had the mustache.You have cost me a lot of time and money no regrets .. Thankyou
+britishmuzzleloaders I am using a 60 cal round ball now getting 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 metres and I am happy with that. I tried a 578 mini ball and it was just terrible am going to call CBE- Cast Bullet Engineering here in Queensland and see what they have for me.
Another excellent video, with much thought and research gone into it, very much appreciated ! One thing that would make life easier would be to turn up a neck sizing die, you could then just size the case neck to whatever dia gave you the best neck tension, I noticed that you did not flare the case mouth, does that not give your patches a tear? Many thanks for posting.
+Englishman French Ahh,..... I figured someone would say something about that before I put up the annotations.......:-)... I have since added some notes and links to previous videos showing how I prep the cases... They are indeed flared (and incidentally prepped in exactly the same way as for the grease groove bullets).. Should have probably mentioned that in the soundtrack, eh?... :-) ..... Cheers.
One time this rifle was so popular in Turkey that there are families named Martin here. Hard to believe but true. Before the establishment of the new Turkish Republic Turkish people did not have surnames, after 1920's the new Government decreed that every family should choose a surname. A man who was an avid deer hunter loved his rifle so much that he choose "Martin" as his surname, his descendants including a famous footballer named "Ersen Martin" has this surnameç
This is years behind,but if you review these comments I have a tip,to grip the bullet without the neck sizing,load the bullet then run the loaded round into the sizing die just enough to grip the projectile. 🙃
Rob, I love your articles, but one thing I have to say you're wrong on, and that's cotton wool as a filler. Testing the rounds at my local range, I was leaving smouldering debris all over the place. I'll stick to polenta, such as I use in my Snider.
This legend rifle is important for Turkish army and early Ottoman - Russian war. On 1860s Ottoman bought 200.000+ rifle from America and in Plevne battle it advantege against russians.
Hey Rob! I was wondering how you figured out your overall length for each completed cartridge. Did you try to match the 3.15" historical OAL, or was it done via trial and error to see if it would chamber without hiccup in the rifle?
I went with a “long” version that wouldn’t fit and worked my way back to one that would fit. Then took another couple of thou off for fouling and went with that… I’m away from my references right now, so I couldn’t tell you the exact number…
Fantastic video, as always. I love your appreciation for historical accuracy in your shooting! Out of curiosity, is there a known way to recreate the brass foil with paper patching cartridge for earlier Martini-Henry firing?
Cheers! I'm sure there is, but it certainly isn't worth it for something that would probably be un-reloadable... or at least supremely difficult to reload...
Is there any places that have the 468 or 475 grease groove bullet molds? I just bought my first MH and it seems much easier that having to make grease cookies and PP the bullets... actually it looks like CastBulletEngineering actually has molds and sizers for those.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Yes ive been learning thanks to you an others thank you. I just bought the 470 diameter 480 grain grease grooved mold it was $260! the handles i guess are a separate $100 and theyre in australia that exactly on the opposite side of the world from me in Mchigan. I appreciate any company that produces this stuff tho lol. They couldnt stay in business if they charged less. LEE isnt making custom molds rn and their not cheap either when they do. but 457 molds are common and cheap.
If I remember correctly, wasn't the patched bullet dipped in melted bees wax and pushed thru a sizing heated sizing die prior to being loaded in the cartridge?
Very educational I’m just learning here gathering any informations that I can get my hands on I have a set of Lee dies ( no press yet ) can I size with the Lee set or I have to get a 44/80 rugger too Do you have to size the casing every time after firing And what is the overall length of the cartridge when it’s ready Thank you
Best prescriptive video that I know of thanks a lot. Some questions please. I patched a .459 580gr geese grooved bullet up to .472 then run them throu the sizer and now measures .4695 - You think they will be ok for the Martini? I'v done the same thing for the Sharps I patched a .450 bullet up to .462 run them through the sizer. They came out at .4595. Think they will work ok. I am trying to make a bullet that is a tight fit to see if it will give better groups In the video are still going to "work up a load" what exactly does that involve? Thanks a lot Paul Blrsdings
.469 will be fine in the Martini. Working up for me means different powder loads, seating depths, wad/grease cookie combinations, etc,.. the process I used for the Snider was documented in the so named, two part series on that rifle.
Rob, Sorry for posting to such an old video, however i have a question please. Which bullet did you ultimately decide upon to be the most accurate. I would like to go with historical accuracy, but if there are better choices im all for that.
Not a problem, Scott. I found that with proper work up, both the PP and the GG perform equally... but for ease of manufacture, the GG is a bit easier, but not that much... Paper patching isn't that hard to get the hang of.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Rob. Thanks for the speedy reply. That being said I really like the idea of PP so thats the way i will go, were you ever able to make the tapered bullet shoot as well as the parallel sided bullet? Im asking because im not sure which mold to purchase.
Once I got the parallel sided one up and running (I must admit that it was where my focus was as it was my design) I didn't really look back... the narrower .451 service bullet didn't seat nicely in the case mouth (with the 480 sized neck) and was also more of a PITA to patch...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Rob, Thank you for the information as well as the hard work and dedication you put into this wonderful channel. Looking forward to watching for many years to come. Best regards, Scott
Great video rod , I have a question about black powder I just bought 2 lb of 2 Fs schuetzen at the chiliwack gun show , I always used 70 Gr goex 2 fs for my snider and 85 Gr for Martini Henry, I want wondering if I can use the same powder charge with schützen
Sir, Greetings from the UK. I really like all your videos and a healthy sense of humour too. Do you sell DVDs of your series? I had to buy one and bought a Webley Martini last time I was at Bisley. Great stuff and please keep them coming. Robin H
Hello Robin. Nice to hear from you. Very happy that you are enjoying things on the Channel. I do not have a hard copy of the videos... Maybe when I have flushed out a complete "series" I'll put them all together into one. Cheers.
did the sporting variant of the martini henry as made by the likes of Westley Richards use the standard bullet weight, the carbine bullet weight or a completely different bullet weight?
Your video was the first I ever saw. Since then I have seen others and NONE of them were nearly as informative as yours. From what book did you get your illistrations?
What powder do you use? Do you know if there are factory loads and cost . I did it and made a purchase of a martini MII ENFIELD 1880s cleaned and complete for 1,100. That's why I'm looking for some cartridges to test fire it before I invest anymore money in it.
It would shoot. Paper patching and grease grooves, typically don't perform quite as well as a purpose designed PP bullet with smooth sides... Worth a try though.
I've been watching your videos over the past couple of days and enjoying them, but one thing springs to mind: why the Seaforths? Is there a family connection? Best wishes from the home of the Gordons.
Hi there. There is indeed.... and the fact that I had a MacKenzie kilt sealed the deal... Gordons?..... The Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen, by chance?
I have ordered a p-1871 from IMA . when checked out by the gunsmith I want to shoot it. Have you tried smokeless powder or BP substitutes Also I have a mold for my 45-70 (.458) and a Lee real bullet mold for 45 caliber muzzleloader not historical but should I consider either as an acceptable alternative ? It's great shooting old guns, love your channel.
I only shoot BP in my period arms... While a .458 bullet will fire safely, it will not give you the best results. X-Ring services will set you up, though.
I saw Bonhams had a Snider calvary carbine for 475 quid unfortunately when I tapped add to cart it said sold. I thought 475 was a good price was I right? It came with a certificate saying it was safe to shoot. And I know pounds are worth more than dollars.
How does the performance of the paper patch bullets compare to grease groove bullets in the Martini Henry? I have experimented with PP bullets in my 45-70 Sharps and found them to be fairly inconsistent compared with grease groove bullets. I use 20-1 lead/tin alloy and black powder as well. I typically get 1 to 1.5 inch groups with grease groove bullets, but they open up to 2-3 inches with the paper patch bullets. I have a tapered PP bullet as well.
Excellent job as always on all of your vids. I have a question on martini loads. Earlier you just use a non paper patched bullet as cast, do you see any accuracy differnces between paper patch and your non paperpatched rounds? Thanks
I am just starting out with my m-h, but it seems much easier to use the bullets as cast, not use a cast bullet sizer die, and pan lube them and load away!
Hi Rob I’m getting into reloading my Martini and saw in this video you used a mold from accurate mold. What was the mold number so I can order one thanks
Amazing video as always! one question on the cotton filler, is is compacted down tight or is it partially loose and in a sense "Fluffy" to take up air space? Kindest regards :)
It is somewhat compacted in the case. How much I can't tell you as I can't see into the case once it has been filled and the bullet put into it.. The powder can not shake around inside though.
After watching this video I grew a handlebar mustache and listened to 'Rule Britannia' for half an hour.
Great video though, you really have reloading for this cartridge down to a science.
+Alome9 ...... Excellent. The fiendish sub-plot worked then!..... :-)... Glad you liked it. Cheers.
I did the same but my wife does not like my handlebar mustache
HOMEGA10 Oh, she will,...... she will,..... Stare into her eyes, wave your palm across her face gently, and say, "this IS the moustache you've been looking for,......" If she doesn't roll her eyes and call you an idiot, you've got 'er... :-)
How much mustache did grow under that half an hour? ;)
britishmuzzleloaders are you British
what a process holy cow
It rolls along (pun intended) quite quickly once you get the hang of it.
Wow, how did they produce millions of cartridges back then? Could this be automated or was it all hand work?
Thanks a lot. I noticed on you video that the bullet with the largest diameter got a very tight group for a Martini. What sould I expect for accuracy. Is 2 to 3 moa realistic for this rifle.
Amazing to watch the dedication you put on informing about this cartridge. very cool to watch.
Thank you!
You have taught me more history than school and college
Also your comment section is one of nicest I've seen
Well, inadvertently, perhaps..... :-) Glad that there is something in these videos that has sparked your interest! Cheers.
Saul Moses Indeed. One of the joys of channels such as this which major on somewhat niche subjects is that they tend not to attract the arseholes!
Great job Rob, I have been paper patching the .45/70 and the .50/90 Sharps for my Sharps rifles. I have been wiping between shots, getting impressive results. I use Roosters paper patch lube to moisten the patch when I patch the bullet. Next step will be to work up a hunting load so I can shoot. 3-5 accurate shots with out wiping.
+Hugh Batesel Nice! It's so difficult to wipe with the MH.... For best accuracy with any BP rifle, I think that is the best practice, though. It's not particularly appropriate in the military context (either service or range related) but if absolute best results were to be had, I think this is a technique that would deserve attention. The blow tube certainly seems to be a reasonable (and period) solution... Cheers.
This is a great video on how to load the martini Henry cartridge. I have all I need to load my cartridges thanks to X-Ring Services. I just have to find some FFg powder and wait for the 12mm punch to arrive, then the fun begins,
+Rudy Nouvelle Excellent! "Fun" indeed!
Awesome work good sir! Paper patching is extremely tedious and I don't have the attention span for it, great to see it done right!
+murpheysmuskets Thanks Murph. There certainly is a bit of "assembly line" tedium to it.... They look so good though... Cheers.
thank you so much for showing us this incredible information and remaking history I contacted you maybe a little over a month ago and told you that you got me into buying my first Martini Henry and recreating the ammunition well I just wanted two tell you that I've made my first batch of Martini Henry ammunition and I am very excited to finally shoot it I will let you know the results I followed your paper patch method to the T thank you again and please keep doing what you do
Great! Wonderful to hear. Bet you can't wait to make some smoke! Yes, please, do let me know how things go.
Excellent video as usual Rob. Loved to see heat haze off the barrel in the last shot fired, I can imagine in battle they would be roasting.
+Anon Hunter Thank you very much. Yes, there are many accounts of Martinis that were too hot. Leather handguards were used unofficially from the late 1870s, and were later, by the early 1880s, produced as an issue item.
There is a greatly therapeutic nature to these videos. I could watch them endlessly (and not like that's anything different from the rest). There is just something rather calming about watching the somewhat extensive, reloading process of an antiquated cartridge...
Glad you enjoyed it. Loading some up right now for the initial efforts at the Annual Qualification of 1879.
Great video. My grandfather had a Martini Henry dated 1887. When you looked at the barrel end you could see that it had been sleeved twice, once for .303 Enfield and then for .22 Long Rifle. It bore the stamp "Converted by CG Bonehill of Birmingham for the Soceity of Minature Rifle Clubs. As I didn't have a FAC I had to hand it in .... sadly. But I did shoot it before that .... in .22 LR. So heavy there was no perceptible recoil. Pretended I was at Rourke's Drift for 5 minutes.
+john marsh That's too bad... 1887? Was it a Mk IV?... I can imagine the docile recoil with the .22. There is a VERY perceptible recoil with full bore rounds, mind you!... :-)...
Love how you catch the brass after ejection. What a chad👌
Slick drills though, no?
britishmuzzleloaders slick like greased lightning pal✌️.
This video really helpful me reload my 100 rounds of Kynoch Martini ammo I bought, thought I didn't have to cast new bullet lead I did have to re-paper patch the bullets after priming them with a non corrosive primer and proper black powder instead of cordite, but now I have a video to help me cast my bullets when I get ready to reload my Martini ammo this coming week Thanks!
Great! Although I haven't had any experience with old Kynoch brass, I have heard of them being a bit fragile... Perhaps annealing them will help with longevity...
I just happened across you when doing some research on the 1871 valise equipment and I am impressed. Your videos are very informative and interesting to watch.
Thanks very much! There is a video on the P71 here on the chancel.. look in the Martini playlist.
Inspired choice of Braganza for backing music!
Great vid, thanks!
Cheers.
you do a beautiful job making these rounds. i would loose it. lol.
Thanks!
The more videos out there about paper patching the better. This is an art that never should have fallen by the wayside.
+DoughboyJonesmk2 Glad you approve.... :-) Thanks.
+britishmuzzleloaders It's just that too often shooters get caught up in the new and flashy (which there's nothing wrong with) when there's just as much (well, probably quite a bit more) joy and satisfaction from the nuts and bolts DIY aspect of the hobby. The monetary savings are nice, too.
DoughboyJonesmk2 Well put!
Thank You, your bullets and build methods are both precise and beautifully done!
You are most welcome. Glad that you found things interesting. Cheers.
I always found paper patched bullets interesting.
On a side note, at 15:26 are you wearing hob nail shoes? I like your commitment to historical details.
Yes they have studs..
Brilliant patience and attention to detail.
Thank you Drew. Glad you enjoyed it.
Your videos are fantastic and I'm very glad to have run across your channel. Thank you for these, they're fascinating. Watched a few others and I know I'll enjoy going back through the rest.
Thanks for that. Glad you are finding things to your liking!
This wensday my martini mk2 arrives.
And also thanks to you I was able to identify it as British made.
Now I'll save up so I can contact Martin about reloading dyes and molds for bullets.
Martyn will set you up! Great guy.
Excellent video on what you expect when reloading. Well done!
Cheers!
Thank you these were the best reloading videos I've seen.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I LOVE! Seabee! or Rednecked? Engineering! Get it done with What You Have.
Must admit "I Would" try cotton thinking about military distractions' of yours' or enemies' info.
Cant believe I watched this dude this long? and old is new again, but I have learned more black powder tech?
Good, solid presentation as always Rob, many thanks.
+Duncan Andrews Glad you enjoyed it Duncan, thanks.
I have to admit its amazing to see this done and then think of the munitions workers that did this sort of work everyday for countless millions of rounds.
A great deal by children, too.
These videos are great. Awesome detail.
+Ryan X Glad you found it interesting, thanks.
Almost dropped my coffee when he said "small puckers". Not what I initially heard😅
Haha!
Great video and great choice of background music...I heard Braganza/Lass o Gowrie and Sir Manly Power/Paddys Resource. Both Queens and Middlesex Regiment marches. Thank you.
Cheers!
Great shooting. Thank you for posting.
Cheers! You are welcome!
Superb video , easily understood and clearly explained 👍🇬🇧
Thanks! Glad it was interesting!
The total process of casting the bullets, patching them and the steps to assembling each round is considerable. The recoil abuse of 85 grains of black power and a 500 grain bullet provide are all factors revealing just how determined you are to shoot a Martini-Henry 577/450 rifle.
It really is not that much of pain...
First time out with my Martini was good . Took ten paper patched .459 cast bullets with 80 grains FF. Fresh from IMA I fired two rounds to verify it was safe with a sandbag on the action. Six were in a three inch group with two fliers. I am happy. Next group will be patched closer to .470
Nice! Sounds like you are well on your way!
Such a good channel. Thank you for efforts.
Thanks!
great skill popping the action and catching the casing
I'll take Martini parlour tricks for $500 Alex.
Well this has been an absolute education. Thank you! I found this extremely interesting.
+gnarshread Excellent! Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers.
Fantastic info, I am just about to cast for a chap who shoots the Martini, and I needed to get my head around all the info I could absorb, I will continue to subscribe and possibly look for my own Martini, cheers
Nice! Glad to have you along!
Great job on the martini cartridges.
+mark cooper Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
One factor that can be important is the direction of wrapping on the paper patch, it is said to be better to wrap, (as you have done), so that the patch will unwrap on exiting the muzzle, although, as in your video ,the patch should be cut by the rifling into small strips, it is a good idea to follow the clockwise wrap, (looking from the rear of the bullet), for right hand twist barrels. and of course anti clock, for left hand twist barrels.
+Englishman French Good points. I'll add an annotation as to the direction of the paper...
great info. I just picked up a Canadian Mk1, one of the few actually issued (marked on butt) Looks like great fun to shoot.
I just happen to have an 1875p saw back bayonet that fits the Martini Henry, no insp. marks so most likely for a volunteer unit.
What a great find! Will you be shooting it?
That was bloody fascinating.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I use the .460 parallel bullet and onion paper. Works well. Instead of using a cotton ball I use something sold at Buffalo arms. It is a black powder filler and has lubricant in it. This works very well as this works with the cookie. I get good groupings at 100yds.
+Stew Knoles Great! Sounds like you have a combination that works for you. Cheers.
The product is called Puff-Lon. Its the best filler by far that I've seen or used.
An Excellent tutorial, many thanks!
+MrRedbeard762 You are welcome! Cheers.
Mr. britishmuzzleloader, you might try one egg white in about a cup of warm water as your bullet patching mixture. You can moisten the patch on a sponge dampened with this mixture. I think you’ll find that the patch adheres tighter and quite well to the bullet. Cheers!
Thanks for that! Cheers.
One small and easy method you can try, is to on wrapping on the patch, instead of "crimping" the end, if you hold your finger and thumb on each side of the bullet base, and turn the bullet with your right hand, it will turn in the patch evenly, all around the base, (like an old type sweet wrapper), this does away with the notchy base and will save the rolling process, I also take advantage of the loose fit bullet, and only neck size after loading, this grips the bullet just enough to stop it falling out.
+Englishman French Great suggestions, I'll give them a go... Do you use a cupped base bullet or a flat base one? Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders : I have tried both bases, I swage my bullets on my home made swaging die, so I only have to change the shape of the punch, but it does not appear to make any difference, with or without, if a lot of length of patch is left to overhang, the cupped base is probably better, but with you short tailed patch the flat base is easiest, the cup is really only useful to tuck the excess patch into. Chris.
+Englishman French That's what I am led to believe... The cupped base allows for better seating of the bullet on the wads by allowing for room for the "twist" of paper. Cheers.
Hi !
Exelllent video as allways Rob!
I am still struggeling to get my Mk IV to behave.
Will test different loads this winter .
Hard cast bullets helped.
Keep up the good work!
Greetings, Alf!
+oljerigg Hi Alf. I too found that harder bullets worked better. I only use 20-1 vs the service 12-1... Tin is so expensive. Mk IVs tend to have a bit of a bigger bore. What are you patching to?
+britishmuzzleloaders Hi ,Rob! im in the planning state when it comes to pp.
Need to get me a mold.What do you recommend? (Mk IV)
Greetings from Norway,Alf!
oljerigg Hi Alf. Aim for a mould that will give you .471 or so for the Mk IV... Tom at accurate will work with you to accommodate different sizes on existing designs... Of course, you need to determine what paper you will be using... measure it and add the sum of four thicknesses to the bullet, this is the total that should measure .471/2... I have had great initial success with my PP mould (in this video).. The .457, parallel sided version, that is. Get one in .459 and I should think that it would be OK in your Mk IV... or you could use mine... I thought that the fatter "shoulders" of the parallel sided style might engage the bore in a more positive way than the tapered service-style bullet... I need to do more testing, but as I have found, things are pretty good right away...! Cheers. PS I think that Tom lists my bullet as a 46-510 PP
well done man you do a very good job explaining everything
Cheers!
💰💵💷💷💶🍻
Another outstanding video. Makes me want to obtain a few rds to put through my Martini wall hanger brought home from Afghanistan...from a vice...at a distance....with a long piece of string activating the trigger...
Haha!
Victorian soldiers would probably be more than puzzled if they saw how much effort it takes to shoot a Martini nowadays! Great video, I wondered if you could get a hold of a thermal camera one day? I'm very curious about how hot a Martini barrel gets under rapid fire, and it would be a very informative video IMO
+lptomtom HI there. 10 rounds rapid will make the barrel too hot to hold on to... 20 rounds will make it too hot to touch... That's the actual barrel, mind you... A common practice was to wrap a leather guard around the back of the barrel and forestock to protect the hand, on active service. I can't speak to the number of degrees it reaches, but functionally it doesn't take long. As for the ammo, it was rather more complicated back then, what with the rolled brass cartridges.... the case had to be folded in at the neck and then the bullet crimped into that... I doubt if one could replicate this procedure without some sort of somewhat sophisticated equipment.. Cheers.
In service these rounds were manufacture at the Woolwich Arsenal on the South Bank of the River Thames at Woolwich on the South East edge of London. . filling took place in a long brick building, known in the 1860's as Building 12. Loading was done by children with Adult supervision. Needless to say powder spilt, working it's way into the grain of wooden benches. It was not unknown for a trail of powder to be sparked, wether by accident or delibrately. Mostly there was apprently a shrpSphitt type noise and everyone jumped. On one occasion this effect ran away causing panic and everyone running from the building. Officially the two sides of the doors at the end of the building should have swung open till they hit against the wall. However newly installed gas lamps on the outside of the building stopped this and the doors only opened 90 degrees. In the resulting crush a number (Exact escapes me at the moment) of Adults and children died. Subsequently one of the first Enquirys in industrial acccident deaths in the UK was carried out. The result blamed one the hildren for taking 'Illigal' material into the shed, and causing sparks.
Interesting story!
I guess the children who did this in Burningham 145 years ago could have gave you lessons on this process? Great video, gave me ideas for doing this, thx.
+Richard Logan I'm sure they could have... I hope that I'd out a bit more care and attention into things than they, though!... Cheers.
I wish there was a video of this quality for the Springfield trapdoor calibers.
Cheers!
EXTREMELY EDUCATIONAL.
THANKYOU VERY MUCH! :)
You are welcome.
Very well done. Love your work.
Thanks Dave!
Great video Rob, Hope you can get over here soon
+Greg King Funny you mention that Greg (and thanks, by the way)... I have some time coming (now confirmed) in September of this year.... The intent is to pay a visit to your side. Just need some timings and an RV and I'll make best effort to be there. Exciting stuff!
I`m sure we have an event round aout then. Its the smoker at Bisley ranges in Feb I will speak to Sgt Harman about events and timings. Oh by the way we are stopping in Canada house at the ranges. Happy new year to you and your family.
+Greg King And a very happy New Year to you and yours! I do hope that something works out around that time, too. Definitely looking forward to the possibility of visiting and learning from the Diehards. Hope the smoker is full of white smoke and good times!
Excellent video!
+Homespunmusic Glad you got something out of it. Cheers.
I love this! Great job!
that heat coming of the barrel tho
It does get warm, for sure!
It's fun to shoot paper patch slugs...i use 2 types of loads ..one load I call a military type and another called creedmore...i get them to to shoot minute of angle and that's with a ten shot string...no blow tube with the military style not necessary if you shoot fast...
Nice shooting!
good shooting and great video!
+patriot canuck Thanks!
Great video!
Scary but forty years ago with a .457 bullet and patched out to .470 , loaded pretty much the same way you did I had similar results with 85 grs. of two F under a beeswax and paper wad with a 475 grain bullet. I took out a cougar at a paced out 400 yards downhill at a shallow angle. It was with a long lever Mk. IV. I guess times don't change what really works.
Post script: I used old lathe made brass seeing that brass was hard to come by and original rounds were expensive.
Thanks for sharing! If it works, don't change it!
The sound of this weapon in awesome!!!!Just like bf1
It's the other way around, my friend.
I keep thinking of a line, a hundred troopers long, firing as fast as they can!
There would be a considerable amount of firepower there.
The Martini Henry: an awesome rifle to own and shoot but a pain to buy more ammo for
That's why you make it. 🙂
Great Video wish you would have done this Paper Patching earlier would have saved me a lot of trial and error mostly error . I enjoy watching your chanel and yes I have Subscribed. Cheers from down under.
+mrbikehunter Hope that you are up and running with your paper patches now. Does your process differ any from mine? Glad you enjoyed the video. Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders I ended up with a 457 lee bullet PP it shoots quite well. The paper patching i do was gleaned from several different sources must have guessed correctly to be the same as yours . I have an A4 template that I use with a guillotine cutter and for that puckering I have a block of alloy with a conical hole drilled in it that i put the bullet in and move it round and round . I enjoy history that I can touch started out with a Snider just like Ned Kellys (Australian Bushranger) he robbed the bank at Euroa in 1879 with one he called Betty then i just had to have a Martini like yours and I already had the mustache.You have cost me a lot of time and money no regrets .. Thankyou
mrbikehunter Hahaha... Money and time.... I'm right there with you, though... wouldn't have it any other way. What so you use in your Snider?
+britishmuzzleloaders I am using a 60 cal round ball now getting 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 metres and I am happy with that. I tried a 578 mini ball and it was just terrible am going to call CBE- Cast Bullet Engineering here in Queensland and see what they have for me.
You are a great maker of video.
+William Haley Thank you for your kind words.
Another excellent video, with much thought and research gone into it, very much appreciated ! One thing that would make life easier would be to turn up a neck sizing die, you could then just size the case neck to whatever dia gave you the best neck tension, I noticed that you did not flare the case mouth, does that not give your patches a tear? Many thanks for posting.
+Englishman French Ahh,..... I figured someone would say something about that before I put up the annotations.......:-)... I have since added some notes and links to previous videos showing how I prep the cases... They are indeed flared (and incidentally prepped in exactly the same way as for the grease groove bullets).. Should have probably mentioned that in the soundtrack, eh?... :-) ..... Cheers.
One time this rifle was so popular in Turkey that there are families named Martin here. Hard to believe but true. Before the establishment of the new Turkish Republic Turkish people did not have surnames, after 1920's the new Government decreed that every family should choose a surname. A man who was an avid deer hunter loved his rifle so much that he choose "Martin" as his surname, his descendants including a famous footballer named "Ersen Martin" has this surnameç
That is a great story! Thanks for sharing.
All that work for a 0.1 sec of squeese, followed with a shot. Now thats dedication for your hobby.
It is what it is, I guess.
Impossible to dislike this ;)
Thank you!
This is years behind,but if you review these comments I have a tip,to grip the bullet without the neck sizing,load the bullet then run the loaded round into the sizing die just enough to grip the projectile. 🙃
So if the bullet falls into the case without neck sizing, how does it stay in place to be run up into the sizing die?
Excellent video as usual. What are the exact dimensions on the Accurate mold? Looking to get that one myself. Thank you.
X Ring Services will set you up. Martyn offers that mould.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thank you sir!
Rob, I love your articles, but one thing I have to say you're wrong on, and that's cotton wool as a filler. Testing the rounds at my local range, I was leaving smouldering debris all over the place. I'll stick to polenta, such as I use in my Snider.
Don't say that it's me that's wrong,.... that's what was used historically..... Yes, there are sometimes smouldering leftovers.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Yes, I expressed myself poorly there. It's a poor choice, certainly in the Australian bush where I do my shooting.
This legend rifle is important for Turkish army and early Ottoman - Russian war. On 1860s Ottoman bought 200.000+ rifle from America and in Plevne battle it advantege against russians.
Indeed!
at 1805 on the video you can see heat rising off the barrel
+bern bren Yes you can. It was getting on to dusk and the temperature was dropping rapidly... Cool view though, eh?
Maybe I should draw something like that. The heat rising from the rifle.
Hey Rob! I was wondering how you figured out your overall length for each completed cartridge. Did you try to match the 3.15" historical OAL, or was it done via trial and error to see if it would chamber without hiccup in the rifle?
I went with a “long” version that wouldn’t fit and worked my way back to one that would fit. Then took another couple of thou off for fouling and went with that… I’m away from my references right now, so I couldn’t tell you the exact number…
Fantastic video, as always. I love your appreciation for historical accuracy in your shooting! Out of curiosity, is there a known way to recreate the brass foil with paper patching cartridge for earlier Martini-Henry firing?
Cheers! I'm sure there is, but it certainly isn't worth it for something that would probably be un-reloadable... or at least supremely difficult to reload...
Is there any places that have the 468 or 475 grease groove bullet molds? I just bought my first MH and it seems much easier that having to make grease cookies and PP the bullets... actually it looks like CastBulletEngineering actually has molds and sizers for those.
Yep, they have lots of moulds.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Yes ive been learning thanks to you an others thank you. I just bought the 470 diameter 480 grain grease grooved mold it was $260! the handles i guess are a separate $100 and theyre in australia that exactly on the opposite side of the world from me in Mchigan. I appreciate any company that produces this stuff tho lol. They couldnt stay in business if they charged less. LEE isnt making custom molds rn and their not cheap either when they do. but 457 molds are common and cheap.
@@danm7298 This can get expensive, for sure...
If I remember correctly, wasn't the patched bullet dipped in melted bees wax and pushed thru a sizing heated sizing die prior to being loaded in the cartridge?
Only the bottom third was.... to act as a sealant.
Great video, very informative, however I can’t find part 1
There is a place holder video in the ammunition playlist. Cheers.
Very educational
I’m just learning here gathering any informations that I can get my hands on
I have a set of Lee dies ( no press yet ) can I size with the Lee set or I have to get a 44/80 rugger too
Do you have to size the casing every time after firing
And what is the overall length of the cartridge when it’s ready
Thank you
I neck size after each use. As for the OAL, it is seated to touch the rifling and then backed off a couple thou.
Best prescriptive video that I know of thanks a lot. Some questions please.
I patched a .459 580gr geese grooved bullet up to .472 then run them throu the sizer and now measures .4695 - You think they will be ok for the Martini?
I'v done the same thing for the Sharps I patched a .450 bullet up to .462 run them through the sizer. They came out at .4595. Think they will work ok. I am trying to make a bullet that is a tight fit to see if it will give better groups
In the video are still going to "work up a load" what exactly does that involve?
Thanks a lot
Paul
Blrsdings
.469 will be fine in the Martini. Working up for me means different powder loads, seating depths, wad/grease cookie combinations, etc,.. the process I used for the Snider was documented in the so named, two part series on that rifle.
Rob, Sorry for posting to such an old video, however i have a question please. Which bullet did you ultimately decide upon to be the most accurate. I would like to go with historical accuracy, but if there are better choices im all for that.
Not a problem, Scott. I found that with proper work up, both the PP and the GG perform equally... but for ease of manufacture, the GG is a bit easier, but not that much... Paper patching isn't that hard to get the hang of.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Rob. Thanks for the speedy reply. That being said I really like the idea of PP so thats the way i will go, were you ever able to make the tapered bullet shoot as well as the parallel sided bullet? Im asking because im not sure which mold to purchase.
Once I got the parallel sided one up and running (I must admit that it was where my focus was as it was my design) I didn't really look back... the narrower .451 service bullet didn't seat nicely in the case mouth (with the 480 sized neck) and was also more of a PITA to patch...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Rob, Thank you for the information as well as the hard work and dedication you put into this wonderful channel. Looking forward to watching for many years to come. Best regards, Scott
Great video rod , I have a question about black powder
I just bought 2 lb of 2 Fs schuetzen at the chiliwack gun show , I always used 70 Gr goex 2 fs for my snider and 85 Gr for Martini Henry, I want wondering if I can use the same powder charge with schützen
Should be similar...
I would love to make these and shoot my Mk1 but unfortunately i live in the UK.
Excellent information indeed.
Cheers Rob
+Tee Campez : So what is the problem ? All the components are readily available, the dies are expensive but they are out there second hand. Good Luck.
+Englishman French Gunpowder ?
+Tee Campez : That should not be a problem, Henry Krank has it in stock, but you could always use the horrid Pyrodex at a pinch.
+Englishman French Thanks for the tip, checked Henry Krank site....good site :)
+Tee Campez I see that EF has graciously chimed in with some good details... Look forward to hearing about your first shoot!..... :-)....
Sir, Greetings from the UK. I really like all your videos and a healthy sense of humour too. Do you sell DVDs of your series? I had to buy one and bought a Webley Martini last time I was at Bisley. Great stuff and please keep them coming. Robin H
Hello Robin. Nice to hear from you. Very happy that you are enjoying things on the Channel. I do not have a hard copy of the videos... Maybe when I have flushed out a complete "series" I'll put them all together into one. Cheers.
did the sporting variant of the martini henry as made by the likes of Westley Richards use the standard bullet weight, the carbine bullet weight or a completely different bullet weight?
My understand is that if the calibre was the same as the military Martini, then the rifle used the equivalent of the military ammunition.
Your video was the first I ever saw.
Since then I have seen others and NONE of them were nearly as informative as yours.
From what book did you get your illistrations?
Glad you found it useful. Engravings and such are commonly available online and used for research purposes...
What powder do you use?
Do you know if there are factory loads and cost .
I did it and made a purchase of a martini MII ENFIELD 1880s cleaned and complete for 1,100.
That's why I'm looking for some cartridges to test fire it before I invest anymore money in it.
If you are interested, in Part One of the series most of that is explained.
Cpuld you use a .45-70 mold as a substitute for the .457 mold? The .45-70 mold is .457 in diameter, but has grease grooves.
It would shoot. Paper patching and grease grooves, typically don't perform quite as well as a purpose designed PP bullet with smooth sides... Worth a try though.
I've been watching your videos over the past couple of days and enjoying them, but one thing springs to mind: why the Seaforths? Is there a family connection? Best wishes from the home of the Gordons.
Hi there. There is indeed.... and the fact that I had a MacKenzie kilt sealed the deal... Gordons?..... The Northern Lights of Old Aberdeen, by chance?
If you haven't, you should visit their regimental museum if you ever happen to find yourself in Aberdeen. It's one of the best in the UK.
I shall indeed!
I have ordered a p-1871 from IMA . when checked out by the gunsmith I want to shoot it. Have you tried smokeless powder or BP substitutes Also I have a mold for my 45-70 (.458) and a Lee real bullet mold for 45 caliber muzzleloader not historical but should I consider either as an acceptable alternative ? It's great shooting old guns, love your channel.
I only shoot BP in my period arms... While a .458 bullet will fire safely, it will not give you the best results. X-Ring services will set you up, though.
Rifle arrived today.beautiful to look at and after scrubbing the bore it looks usable. Still dirty but not pitted .bullet components are orderer.
@@robertmalmgren4640 Nice! Sounds good!
I saw Bonhams had a Snider calvary carbine for 475 quid unfortunately when I tapped add to cart it said sold.
I thought 475 was a good price was I right?
It came with a certificate saying it was safe to shoot.
And I know pounds are worth more than dollars.
All things being equal, that sounds about right, yes.
Why are the original cartridges always messed up?
They are rolled brass cartridges, that's how they looked. I was also puzzled the first time I ever saw an original cartridge.
wow 4 years ago. with all that I know now im surprised I was the writer of that comment. but at the time I didn't know
How does the performance of the paper patch bullets compare to grease groove bullets in the Martini Henry? I have experimented with PP bullets in my 45-70 Sharps and found them to be fairly inconsistent compared with grease groove bullets. I use 20-1 lead/tin alloy and black powder as well. I typically get 1 to 1.5 inch groups with grease groove bullets, but they open up to 2-3 inches with the paper patch bullets. I have a tapered PP bullet as well.
I found that I got similar results with both, with a parallel sided PP bullet, that is.
Excellent job as always on all of your vids. I have a question on martini loads. Earlier you just use a non paper patched bullet as cast, do you see any accuracy differnces between paper patch and your non paperpatched rounds? Thanks
Not appreciably... the paper patched ones took a bit longer to get to the right combination of load and paper...
I am just starting out with my m-h, but it seems much easier to use the bullets as cast, not use a cast bullet sizer die, and pan lube them and load away!
awesome !
+Wagner Tom Thank you!
Hi Rob I’m getting into reloading my Martini and saw in this video you used a mold from accurate mold. What was the mold number so I can order one thanks
Contact Martyn at X Ring Services.
Hi I did contact him very nice guy thanks. I was wondering also what size punch you have for your martini wad cards. Thank
Amazing video as always! one question on the cotton filler, is is compacted down tight or is it partially loose and in a sense "Fluffy" to take up air space?
Kindest regards :)
It is somewhat compacted in the case. How much I can't tell you as I can't see into the case once it has been filled and the bullet put into it.. The powder can not shake around inside though.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thank you :)