CLASSICAL CONVERSATIONS | My Honest Review & Why We Quit
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- We tried Classical Conversations...and then we quit. Today I'm sharing an honest homeschool review of our family's experience with Classical Conversations foundations and why we ultimately decided it wasn't the best fit for our family. Homeschool freedom is super important to me, and I love that we all can make the best choices for our families based on our desires, needs, and priorities for our children's education. Although a classical education wasn't the best fit for us, I know it works fantastically for many families. If you're considering using CC for your homeschool, I hope this curriculum review was helpful to you! Homeschooling is such an individual experience, and everyone has an opinion about what works best for their family, so I encourage you to listen to opinions different than mine, as well.
I'm Jess, a homeschool mom of two awesome girls. I'm a reluctant homeschooler turned full-blown homeschool convert! Being a homeschool newbie was a huge change, but we love being a homeschooling family! I've embraced my love for Charlotte Mason and running an eclectic homeschool. I'm so excited to join the homeschool community here on UA-cam and get to know more homeschoolers out there! Whether you're a fellow homeschooling mom or are just interested in learning more about home education, I'm so glad you're here! I can't wait to share our homeschooling journey as I share my family's experience living, loving, and learning at home. Introduce yourself in the comments so I can say hello!
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We have homeschooled for 20 years... we absolutely love CC. I just want to note for those who do not know the CC model... you make it what you want. I was an eclectic HS mom who hen my kids were young and I fit CC into my daily schooling. It is what you make it, especially in the Foundation years. I’m sorry you had a bad experience with the FB group you were in. That is very unfortunate that moms would treat anyone with anything other than kindness 🙏🏼🙌🏻
I’m so glad it’s worked well for your family! I think it all comes down to what you’re educational preferences are and what you choose to prioritize.
Jess - I wanted to tell you that for only being in community for half a year, you had some incredibly insightful comments. We are in our 8th year in CC (Ch.II, Ch.B, F/E) and we are definitely a family that has reaped enormous benefit from it. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT in realizing early that the Foundations/Essentials programs' purpose is intended to build a "foundation" for those Challenge programs! CC is about homeschooling THROUGH high school. Those Challenge programs were designed first, and then the Foundations/Essentials programs afterwards to lead up to that ultimate goal. So many families come into CC and think of it as a co-op, an ala carte type curriculum, or just a supplemental, side curriculum. It is not any of those things. We absolutely do want families who want to realize that Challenge goal, because we need students to fill those future classes, and parents to Direct and tutor. It was very astute of you to see that the goals for your kiddos did not align with those future Challenge programs. And that's not a bad thing! We DO need to have long-term goals for our childrens' education, and find curriculum/methods that align with those. What I usually hear in videos like this tend to be parents that have only done F/E (have usually never even seen an actual Challenge class), and criticize, criticize, criticize the curriculum without even having a clue as to why it is the way it is, or the beauty of what it leads to in Challenge. Thank you for being clear in that regard! It was very refreshing!
Thank you for your kind and considerate comment! I love that we can all pursue different educational paths for our families and decide what suits our individual needs best.
So helpful! You put everything that I feel about CC into words. So refreshing to hear someone else expressing similar thoughts and feelings. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for watching and for your comment of solidarity! 😁
CC members here! 🙋♀️You’re absolutely right in that what works for one family may be a total disappointment for another family. I appreciate your honesty of your experience. I’ve been homeschooling for a decade now. With many years of the eclectic approach, I decided we needed a change, especially for my soon-to-be high-schooler. Long story short, we joined CC last year and we absolutely love it. It is important that parents understand, however, regarding your point in the difficulty you found expanding material in Foundations, that the classical model follows the trivium (three roads- grammar, dialectic, rhetoric). There is purpose and intent on all stages, how children learn and when. There is not necessarily a *need* to expand upon that material at that time, because trust me, it’ll come up again and at that point, the child will experience that “lightbulb” moment of it being familiar to them, knowing the vocabulary, and then soon after, they’ll find themselves in the second stage of the trivium, the dialectic stage, where they will want to ask questions and desire to dive more into that topic. I have seen it firsthand with my youngest. I also absolutely LOVE the content of challenge! Bringing up children who can critically-think, debate, speak eloquently, and have strong presentation skills are just a few of the skills I have seen both of my kids thrive with thus far. With this said, I know it’s not for everyone! However, it’s important parents understand the classical model itself, its intention and purpose, before diving in as they’ll be able to understand it much more and reap the benefits of the fruits of their labor.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I’m so glad your family has had such a positive experience with CC! You bring up excellent points about understanding the classical model of education and the trivium. I knew about these things going into CC, talked to people with experience, and read The Core be Leigh A. Bortins. In theory, I really loved the idea of the classical education model, but, in practice, it’s not what felt most natural to my family, and it’s not something I saw us sticking with. Sometimes you have to try something before you figure that out though. I’m glad we gave it a shot! We’ve learned through trial and error what works for us, and I’m so thankful that we have the freedom to do that as homeschoolers.
This was our 6th year homeschooling and we have never done CC or co-op for the reasons you mentioned. We are eclectic too. Lots of Charlotte Mason, lots of Literature, some traditional. I just love freedom and don't want to be tied down to any one style. And I want to spend time with my boys doing what we want to do and learning things they're interested in. I don't do well with cattiness or cliqueishness so it's hard to be part of a big group without seeing that. I may do co-op of some kind when they're older but I kind of doubt it!
We are looking into some fine arts extracurriculars through a fine arts academy, which I’m hoping will be a great fit for us!
You are such a breath of fresh air. I love your kindness and honesty. I have dealt with issues in homeschool communities due to my political and pandemic beliefs. It’s so hard and I would love to see this change
Thank you so much. ♥️ I’m so sorry you’ve dealt with those issues. I too hope there’s a change.
Your videos are so refreshing. It's very helpful to see a new homeschooling mom, hear your views and ideas. I love that it's like we're going on this new journey on the same time frame.
Thank you so much! ❤️ I love that I get to go along this journey with the community here, too.
Thank you for sharing. I love honesty and a genuine perspective.
Thanks for making this video. I’m resonating with all of your points made here.
Thank you so much this review is wonderful.
Thank you so much for making this review and approaching it cautiously and lovingly. This is my first time homeschooling my kinder and pre-k children. In the middle of all the research for a curriculum that fits our family, your review has genuinely helped me.
I so appreciate the honesty!!
I never considered CC or co-ops because I knew wanted time freedom in my homeschool. After all that's one of the reasons we're doing this. That decision has been cemented in my mind by some of the stories that I have heard about the inner workings of co-ops. There's a lot of drama typically involved when a group of women get together and start clawing at each other trying to be the top dog, and in the case of a group like this it's always the children who get hurt. I follow a homeschooling mom on UA-cam who was forced out of her co-op to to drama and "politics" and one of her children was devastated by it. We will only do socialization in our homeschool on our own terms!
I fortunately never experienced any catiness in our community. I am thankful options like CC and co-ops exist for the people who benefit from them, but I did learn a lot about what I do and do not need to supplement our homeschool. I’m looking forward to getting my girls involved with fine arts extracurriculars that I can’t really replicate at home very easily.
Also, I saw the social media thing in ALL of my homeschooling groups this year and it was disheartening to say the least. We are too quick to stake the moral high ground and condemn those who think differently. Sorry that was so awful! 💕💕💕 Hopefully this year will be a year of more compassion and empathy. Way to go to speak your mind! 👏👏
So much of what has happened on social media has been disheartening - on all sides. I really don’t think it’s necessarily the best avenue for productive conversation. Always praying for more compassion and empathy! 💕
We are taking a break from CC this year. I'm not sure if I'll go back. I clicked on this at first thinking it was someone who had done it longer than one semester. I wouldn't advice anyone to suffer through it, but at the same time I'm not sure one community in one semester gives the clearest picture. I really love so much about it (even seeing imperfections and my inability to afford it this year). Thanks for your thoughts. We did CC 5 years.
Oh, I definitely encourage people to hear about multiple experiences before making a choice for themselves! I also think going to a preview/trial day would be so helpful. I didn’t have that opportunity before signing up, and I probably would have learned before committing that it wouldn’t end up working out for us. My community had a great group of people, but there were things both fundamental to how CC operates as well as challenges unique to the community that we were in that made it not a great fit for us. I still have friends that have wonderful experiences with CC. I’m so glad we each get to carve out our own pathway for our families.
Yes 🙌🏼 I have never done classical conversations, but when you describe what you WANT, that’s what I want too. I want time outside our house to be spent on play dates and extracurricular activities. I’m confident I can handle the academics. Thanks for doing this video!
I just want to add that I can feel pretty isolated in the homeschool community sometimes.
I’m not a Christian and I don’t believe that homeschooling is the “right” way to educate for every family. Those two beliefs often feel like prerequisites for belonging as a homeschooler.
Most of my close friends and family members are Christians. I care more about who someone is and how they treat others than whether they hold religious beliefs. Many Christians are able to love and accept people who disagree with them, but it seems less common in the homeschool community. I can’t help but wonder if homeschooling has traditionally attracted the more extreme believers.
Homeschooling is great for those who love it. There are families who have no interest in homeschooling and there’s nothing wrong with that. I support public schools and see them as providing an important public service. I very much feel like an outlier even it comes to this belief.
Thanks for sharing. I understand exactly why this video was so hard to make, but I appreciate your honesty and bravery. Mama, you did this with so much kindness and compassion!!
Thanks again ❤️
Did you sleep the night after you posted this video? 🤣
Our religious beliefs are different, but it sounds like we have much in common. ♥️ I am so glad public school exists because I understand that being able to homeschool comes from a place of privilege - one that I don’t take lightly and that I am extremely grateful for. I have observed some pretty exclusionary groups as well, and, while I think it may be coming from a good place with the best of intentions many times, it can definitely be off-putting. Many Christian homeschoolers hold their convictions very tightly and want to protect certain things they hold sacred in their family unit. I understand and respect this and even relate. My personal belief is one of balance, though. I’m definitely not perfect at it, but I try! Like I said in the video - I like diversity in my life, haha. I think there’s a significant amount of value in finding community in a shared belief and value system, but I also don’t want my kids to be ignorant of the rest of the world. Being Christian isn’t a pre-requisite for being my friend. And honestly, as Christians, we’re missing the point if we only ever surround ourselves with people who already believe exactly what we do.
And also...no one has come for me so far. 😅😂
@@TheHomeschoolConvert I wish I could respond with a GIF...
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This was super helpful to me as I prayerfully decide if we will do CC in the fall. I relate to what you’re saying in many ways, and worry that if I did it I would regret it for some of the reasons you mentioned! Thank you 😊
Oh, and I’m a pandemic homeschool convert too
So glad it was helpful! I’m sure you’ll make the best choice for your family. ❤️
Thanks for sharing. ❤ We do CC and absolutely love it, but I also know it's not for everyone. I completely get the sensory overload issue and I'm so sorry your community had to be structured that way.
Unfortunately the issue on social media isn't just in the CC page. I was SO embarrassed by the behavior of some of my brothers and sisters in Christ around election time on social media. My CC Community was/is amazing and is always grace filled and loving. Which is how it's supposed to be...not because we all do CC, but because we all have the Holy Spirit and as a result show love to each other. We are supposed to be a light leading people to Christ and instead we are sometimes the very reason people stay away. That makes God sad so it should make us sad. 😢
But again....thank you for sharing. We don't all have to be homeschooling the exact same way to love each other. ❤ I am enjoying your videos. 😁
Thank you for your kindness and compassion in your response! I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. The behavior surrounding politics was definitely not unique to the CC Facebook group. It was disappointing on all fronts, but I think it hit differently with CC for me because I was new and so excited about joining not only a local Christian homeschool community but also finding that comradely with Christian families using CC all over the world. I did see people speak up and lovingly call out unkind behavior and comments, but I honestly wish the admins of the group would have intervened more because there were some threads that got pretty ridiculous before comments were shut off. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God, and I 100% believe in grace. I also know I needed to personally remove some of the hatefulness going on in my newsfeed because it bothered me to see it so much every day. That meant leaving groups or even muting friends’ accounts. I’ve prayed so much for the healing of the political divisiveness in our nation. It truly, truly saddens me because no political party is perfect, and we all need Jesus.
I’m so glad you’re having such a positive experience with your community! While CC definitely was not the best fit for us, I know some families thrive with it. I got involved with the help of another homeschooling mom in my neighborhood who was so helpful when we were getting started with homeschooling. She was my daughter’s tutor, and I consider her a great friend now. Our daughters are also great friends too. My community had some great people even if CC wasn’t a great fit for us, and I’m glad we tried it because we never would have known if it would have worked unless we did so.
@@TheHomeschoolConvert AMEN! ❤
Thank you for your honest review. We are homeschooling for the first time this upcoming school year and I am looking into many different avenues, including CC. I feel like your review was really helpful!
I’m so glad it was helpful! Hope you find the very best options for your family. ♥️
I am a homeschool convert too!!! This year upcoming school year I do want to do something more with my kiddos, I am more like you were I would rather do things like piano, and gymnastics too for our spare days. This was such a great informative video about classical conversation.
Thank you! Homeschool converts unite! 😁 I’m so looking forward to getting my girls involved with more extracurricular/enrichment activities.
I enjoyed CC for the time we did it, but we felt like God was leading us away (for a variety of reasons). I was so glad to hear you mention the sensory overload. That was an issue for me for sure! I am overstimulated from my own kids and my introverted personality, though I wanted community, would find myself coming home from community day completely physically/emotionally spent.
We are very eclectic also and we have a blend of classical, Charlotte Mason, and traditional curricula planned for the fall. Our “socialization” if you will, will come from church and other activities that suit us well for the stage of life we’re in.
Best of luck to you with your continued homeschooling endeavors!
Same to you! It’s good to know I wasn’t alone with the sensory overload.
Im very much understanding this and we are in week 4! lol. im very much a home school freedom, 4day school week, dig-deeper, unschool, Charlotte Mason type person. i also taught at the collegiate level and having to keep track of kids' bathroom breaks is more commitment than i want.
I do enjoy the history portion but I find books are the best way to do that.
we dont do social media bc i dont do drama, lol.
We'll stick it out for a year, but will def reevaluate.
Thank you for this review. I have been going back and forth between CC and Mason. The cost of CC alone puts me off among other things but I do like classical education. I may just make my own pieced together curriculum. I appreciate your honest review.
Hey! I went to CC starting at Challenge A all the way to Challenge 3. What my younger siblings learned was DRASTICALLY different from what I did. I don't know if that curriculum has changed, but my experience was awful. The want for a community is so desperate when youre homeschooling, and that was what my mom and I felt as we went in. While we were being taught or expected to complete a large amount of homework, there were classmates whos parents exepmt them from those projects or assignments which was extremely confusing as a young teen. Why do i have to do all this work but my classmate doesn't? Diverting from that aspect, in Challenge A (which is 7th grade) we were handed college freshman logic textbooks and were fully expected to memorize all the rules of logic. The tutors and heads would hype up the parents to believe that their kids were better than public school kids because we knew college freshman level logic (we did not haha we had no idea what those books were saying). For sciene we read creationsim books, which if you believe in creationsim great! That was not the problem, the problem was that it was the only explanation and we were taught to defend it. Looking back, I remember one argument from the book I had to memorize was that the odds for jesus completing 7 of his miracles was one in a quartillion, which proved that they happened. If youre a christian, that is not the argument you should be using to prove that jesus is real lol. Now as a 20yo i just cant believe that was my first education in science. We were forced to argue abortion rights without learning them, and I remember kids complaining to be on the pro abortion side of the mock debate because they would automatically lose. Again we were twelve, one of the boys in my class didnt even know what periods were yet. As I got older, I moved to the town overs class to be with more teens closest to my age. It was only slightly better, but still very conservative and bible based values and teaching. I'm saying this as I was christian at the time and was uncomfortable. Looking back to it as a whole, I can recognize that even in the "socratic way of teaching" it was more of a vessel for the parents in that community to raise their children in their own belief system. It can be very misleading because they advertise the co-op as a community based on classical learning where the children learn subjects until they can teach a class (although even that was untrue, most of the tutors had no idea what they were tecahing and were no help in learning subjects). I hope you find something that works best! But be wary, all the groups I interacted with during my time homeschooled were extremely similar in values and would ostracise anyone who believed differently.
The school system does the same thing. We are blindly taught to follow evolution as an explanation for the worlds origin. If the state wants to focus on a particular societal behaviour then this will be tackled in school first. Now who has the best intentions at heart? The state or your parents?
@@ashanahowell298 im sorry babes but specifically MY parents were abusive. I wrote this knowingly hammering my experience in this education style as a kid that participated in it and WAS christian. For the creationism, again, if you believe it, swell. It wasnt so much as we were taught what creationsim was, why to believe in it, but instead "This is how to defend creationism" as a science course. In no state is that considered a full on science course. Most conservative states still teach creationism too! With learning the theory of evolution, that itself is not the entire science course. It could be a unit, but not a whole course of a childs education. I dont want the state telling me whats best for children's education, but I also dont want a miniature version of the state procliaming the exact same message. I also am curious as the theory of evolution is a societal behavior? Because that insinuates that creationism is also a societal behavior.
I’m sorry you had a negative experience. I appreciate the freedom each family has to do what they feel is best for their own family. I still know many families that love CC, but we’ve found a better fit elsewhere.
Thanks for sharing your experience - good to hear from someone who has been through the program though I’m sorry about your experience. Really interesting about the “creation” pushing and how both “sides” use the impossible statistics to try and prove the other side wrong 😆. Anyway thanks again for your views it’s very helpful
I'm so glad I read this! Thank you for this
I think a lot of first time homeschoolers try out CC for that instant community, and there is nothing wrong with that! Homeschooling is hard, and knowing people in the trenches with you is fantastic. I hear what you are saying though, and I agree, I can't sacrifice my schedule and freedom for CC.
The built in community is something they do very well! I’m hopeful we’ll be able to connect with other homeschooling families in a way that better meets our needs and desires next school year.
Super excited for this one 👏🏼👏🏼
Hope it didn’t disappoint! 😬😆
We’re definitely a “go down the rabbit hole” kind of house and want to spend as much time as we like learning something. It’s helpful to hear your perspective on that particular facet of the program. I didn’t think it would be a fit for us either even before your video. And also THANK YOU for the reminder for everyone to be kind. I think it’s especially brave to do it on UA-cam and is something we all need to keep on our hearts after the insanity of this past year.
Thank you for understanding my heart in sharing! Like I said in the video, I almost didn’t bring up that point because I didn’t want to ruffle any feathers, but I think it’s important and worth having a conversation about.
You really summarized everything I feel. COVID shut down all the communities around me so now it’s extra difficult I feel like. Ugh.
Wow this video was so helpful! thank you for sharing your experience with us
I’m so glad it was helpful!
I love your honesty. I started my own homeschooling channel for the same reason . For some reason it's easier talking to people you don't know especially about things that are apparently controversial like CC.
I'd considered CC but due to the price we ultimately chose not to I have heard many good things about it though.
Even though it didn’t work for us, I have friends who love it. I’m so thankful we can each choose what best serves our families.
“Classical Convos” is just One of MANY ways to execute a Classical Education
Very true!
Hahaha.. I’m a CC mom. We did CC for the first time last year with my 4 year old. I was in the room every single time and I wanted to run out by the end. Sensory overload for me too. (We actually had 4 walls) 😂. 4-5 years olds are crazy energetic though.
I also love the Charlotte Mason approach. Did you ever try their sandbox? They give tons of recommended readings. My son started reading at 2.5 and I realized he would memorize really effortlessly so it just worked for us. I’m planning on using sonlight as well. The memory facts act like pegs and the great literature feels in all the details.
I’m so glad it’s working for y’all...despite the sensory overload, haha! Yes, we did try the sandbox, and I used Pinterest for resources and just searched my library a ton. I just craved a little more flexibility with the pace we went through things and the historical topics we focused on. I’m thinking we’ll still incorporate memorizing the timeline though because I think that’s a really valuable skill to have!
I’ve been in CC for five years now and really struggled with my decision to continue after this past year, specifically for the reasons you mentioned concerning the political climate during the past school year.
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Appreciate your wisdom.
The first time I heard Classical Conversations described I was immediately like, "Nope, that's not for us!" It sounded much too rigid and I am not a fan of so much memorization.
I think there’s a lot of value to that memorization if you stick with it, but I just couldn’t see us doing that. We did learn a lot, and Kennedy thinks it’s a great party trick to spout out all the history facts she knows. 😂
Exactly my feelings. Memorization, to me, is much less important than understanding and too close to public school, where you binge memorize for the test and then forget everything again. Sometimes (not always) I get the impression that these kids are just rattling off facts but have no idea what they are even saying.
I once heard CC referred to as the MLM of homeschool and I found that surprisingly accurate 😂
So true lol I can definitely see that
Oh my gosh. 😂
Yes! I have told people it seems like a MLM to me.
It does feel like that 😬
What’s MLM?
A great homeschool activity is 4-H, if you have it in your area.
Very interesting video! I appreciate your take. I think your disappointment over their social media pages and political commentary could be applied to many people and pages throughout our last election cycle. Thanks for saying pretty clearly what about CC would work for others so we can get a real sense of it!
Yes, all the discord was truly unfortunate. I had to be selective and intentional about what I was allowing in my social media feeds.
We do CC and enjoy it, and I totally understand your feelings about wanting to dig deeper and being eclectic. As we go forward, I think we’ll focus on certain weeks each time we go through a cycle because we can’t do a deep dive on every single thing every time. But that’s hard for me because I want to!! We’re also fairly eclectic, and the longer we homeschool, the more I lean towards unschooling. I also understand your feelings about freedom in homeschooling. I am very Type A and a, “We paid for it, so we’re going to be there every week,” type of person. I’m trying to let go of that a little bit and if we want to travel somewhere one week, it’s ok to skip. That said, when I look toward the challenge (high school) years, that’s the one thing that bothers me, not having that freedom. So, we’ll see as we get closer. We may do challenge, we may not.
Good luck navigating that! I’m sure you’ll make the very best choice got your family! I can relate to the mentality you talk about. I’m definitely a 100% kind of person and want to get the most out of what we’re doing and paying for. Ultimately, I had to come to terms that time is valuable too, and I wanted to be spending our time differently. We had to pay for the whole school year upfront, so it’s a bummer that we lost that investment, but we also got so much time back in return.
What do you mean about the challenge years? Do you lose freedom once you reach that point? I've never done CC but feel like so many ppl around are doing it and saying how wonderful it is
Thank you 🙋🏻♀️ very helpful
Open spaces for multiple ages is so tough! I taught 5/6th grade in a private school and shared an open space with a kindergarten class!! We were only separated by a waist-high bookshelf!! :/ It was rough!
Oh, man...this was only once a week. I think I don’t know how I’d handle multiple times a week. 😬
We have a co-op that we love, but it is not at all connected to a curriculum. My middle schooler and high schooler have a little homework sometimes, but mostly, co-op does not influence our other days of schooling. We have four days for schooling as we please with one co-op day with a wide variety of fun classes and experiences, lunch and playtime. I love the CC history timeline, but I know that the program is not a fit for our family for many of the reasons you mentioned.
Yes to everything you said! 🙂
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And I totally hear you on the politics with CC. I’ve followed them all year on Facebook and I’ve seen what you’re talking about. :(
It was very discouraging to see. I’m no longer part of the Facebook group.
I’ve never heard a homeschool Christian online speak the way you do about politics and diversity - thank you for speaking up for the way mistreatment has been happening.
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I know our local community and the surrounding ones in our state/area use Band app instead of FB, so I've only experienced the local "flavor" of social media, which had been tasteful, thankfully! This is our first year with C.C. and will decide for next year if this be our trajectory for our family!
That’s good to hear! Hope you get the clarity you need for what’s best for your family moving forward. I still have friends that use and love CC. I love that we have so many options and can choose the trajectory that best suits our family.
Thank you for posting this! I'm considering joining CC this school year with my 5.5 year old and I'm hesitating. I got my copy of the book and from the first glance all this enormous memory work seems... robotic, memorizing for the sake of memorizing... What's your opinion, how accurate is this? The rest of what you said was important to hear but it doesn't put me off. I also have 2.5 y.o. twins, and because of them I don't really have enough time and energy to dig into things with my eldest daughter. So I guess that if CC make at least some sense (especially at this age?) it may be a good start... But do they? If, say, it's highly unlikely that we'll stay till Challenge
There was recently a very helpful comment on this video from someone who has been doing CC for years. If you can scroll through and find it, I think her insights would be helpful. I truly believe it’s suited best for those whose learning style it really aligns with and plan to continue with it through the challenge years. Her commentary seemed to align with that. The foundation years really are the building blocks for those more advanced years. Some people choose to do CC knowing they won’t continue later on, but I think there are likely better-suited options for families looking for additional enrichment or community opportunities. This is absolutely nothing against CC, and I have friends that absolutely love it for their families, but I personally think it’s a very specific method of learning that doesn’t translate as well if you don’t continue long term.
Your question is old but I'll take a stab at answering it anyway. I'm almost done getting my master's degree in Classical Education and have a lot to say on the topic. The memory work is a foundation. Young kids are better at memorizing than high schoolers (puberty does crazy things to their brains!) so we have them memorize as much as possible while they are good at it, rather than forcing them to memorize when their brains are just NOT into it anymore. If it's already in their brain, it makes life easier for the years to come. I just walked through the challenge years with a group of students who did not have the Foundatios years or memory work and they struggled at times becaue those things weren't already common knowledge to them. So they weren't just learning to lead class, or do big projects, or write papers, or whatever. They were also bogged down with memory work that would've been second nature had they gone through Foundations. In the end it is the. idea that classical ed isn't something to hop into for a year or two, it's a full plan from start to finish and if you trust the process, it really works. Not just CC but classical in general.
@@rachellebowman9495 Rachelle, thank you very much for your comment! It's soothing and reassuring. We've gone through our first CC year with my kids and I've grown very fond at least of Foundations - both because of how much I've learned and because how much my kids loved it. Even the little ones remembered the songs, and now we run into the facts that we've learned all the time! I just feel how much my 6 year old knows and how all that knowledge heats up the interest while reading books or going to museums. Without CC I definitely couldn't have explained THAT much to my preschoolers (in Russia kids start school at 7).
I go to cc as an eighth-grader and I feel like the "style" of school I would rather have would be school 5 days a week, but it was sorta fun trying it
This is a great video.
Thank you!
I wish women could just get to the point without having to spend 3 minutes apologizing.
Note taken.
You're fun.
Strange comment coming from someone with the word moral in their SN 🤔
@@non-gmo You think my comment was immoral? It's immoral to express my wish that women didn't apologize for 3 minutes before every video? If so you have a sense of morality very different than mine.
@@MoralGovernment um yeas when you troll people's channels just for a chance to make negative comments on them. But sometimes I forget people don't have much to do anymore
Did cc for 1 year as a first time homeschooling mom and it just didn't fit. Didn't fit either of our styles, but i did love the community and the friends we've made.
I 100% agree. If I had been able to sit in on a class for one day (like they do in "normal" years), I don't think I would have ever signed our kids up for it. It was so, so hard to quit because of community expectations and the significant financial investment. BUT, I felt such a burden lifted when we left, and we found a curriculum that works so much better with how we learn. Honestly, I would have given up on homeschooling if we stayed in CC - not because it was too rigorous, but because it wasn't "us" at all. Like you, I do like aspects of the classical model, but we also pull in CM and a traditional approach here and there. Rote memorization wasn't sufficient for us.
Yes!! I didn’t really talk about stepping away from the financial investment, but “losing” the money was 100% the right choice to gain back things that helped our homeschool thrive.
If I may ask. What program do you currently use?
If you have an appreciation for classical and Charlotte Mason, you may want to look into Tapestry of Grace. As a former CC member, I have found that I like Tapestry more than CC.
Thank you for the recommendation! I think we are set for this upcoming school year, but I will definitely look into it.
The FB group is very large and it is hard to filter that many people from being nasty. When I was on FB I would actually block the group from time to time because of the fighting. We love CC and have been using it for 6 years. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I’m sure that’s a challenge. So glad it’s worked so well for your family!
We are very eclectic too so I don’t think CC would work for us either. And I’m a homeschool convert too :)
I didn’t realize how eclectic our homeschool would truly be until we were in the thick of it, haha! I’m glad I gave CC a shot but also glad we’ve found other things that work better for us.
I am SO HAPPY I stumbled on your channel! My reservations about joining CC are the exact reasons (minus the sensory bit) you listed. I'm praying and searching for community. We just moved to a new town a couple of months ago, so it's a new level of difficulty! **Of to binge watch all your vids :)
Praying you find the very best fit for your family and that you are surrounded with a supportive homeschool community! ❤️
People are hard and life is hard. I was homeschooled growing up. We had a traditional homeschool group which had extracurricular activities and classes. The lack of support and accountability growing up is why I choose CC. The campus I’m apart of is diverse but we all are committed to educating our kids. My husband and I wanted to be in a group that takes education seriously. On the time commitment issue, I don’t know what other people are told but I was informed that the Foundation curriculum at least was to be the base of subjects and you build as your family needs are. I homeschool and my two sisters homeschool, I’m the only one out of the three who does CC so it is not for everyone. I think that is the beauty of homeschooling. Each family is able to do as their needs are. I would however recommend CC obviously. Lol The politics thing, that’s just people. You’ll find people like that everywhere.
I’m so glad it’s working well for you! Homeschooling truly is such an individual choice. I still have friends who do CC and love it, and I think it’s awesome that we can all choose what works best for our own families. I’m so appreciative of all the options available nowadays! No matter how we homeschool, I think, as believers, we should always aim to be a light, so I do think it’s important to be mindful of our interactions with others no matter how we choose to homeschool. We’re all sinners, and no one is perfect, but I can only hope to share God’s grace with others. ❤️
Soo we’ve been a part of CC since 2015 I’m not nessarily ride of die to be honest I’ve been on the fence for about 2yrs . And to be honest We’ve stayed because of our community I can’t bring my self to take my kids out of it because they love the community all their friends etc… but I feel the same way in several points you made.
I was hoping to learn more about the specifics of why CC didn't work for you. This video was primarily about why you didn't like your specific CC social network. ....just not what I was expecting.
Hope you found something that spoke to you more. I'm not entirely sure what about this specific social network you're talking about, as I only had positive things to say about the people from my community, even if CC ultimately didn't work out for us for a multitude of reasons. There were things specific to my community, like the lack of actual rooms for different levels, but I tried to use that as a note to encourage people to visit their own groups before committing to get an understanding of whether or not a specific community would be a good fit. Regardless, thanks for the feedback.
In Classical Conversations you study the memory work deeper in the Challenge years.
Yes, I know. I just didn’t see that style of learning working for us well enough to stick around to that point. I know it works fabulously for some families, though, and I think that’s great.
We’ve done CC for 6 years now. I think this review should be titled a CC Foundations review. The Essentials and Challenge Programs are VERY different, and in my opinion where the real gems are. My oldest is in Challenge 1 this year and while no program is perfect, he LOVES learning and loves CC. He even gets disappointed when our CC year is over because he enjoys it so much. The accountability is one of the reasons we love it. It keeps out homeschool year moving forward.
You’re correct - this is definitely more a Foundations review, which is where most people interested in CC start. I am so glad CC has been a good fit for your family! The beauty of homeschooling is that we each get to choose what works for our family, and that is different for everyone. Even if CC wasn’t a good fit for us, I’m happy for anyone that finds an approach that serves their family well.
We use Memoria Press, which is classical material, but I cannot commit to it 100% It’s fairly rigid (laid out) in what is learned and I’d assume CC is the same. Their belief is learning doesn’t have to be fun, and I disagree, so I use it in a customized way. I pick what I love about it (language arts, Greek Mythology in particular), but I don’t like year-long single topic science and bland math. I have quite a mix of curriculum brands and supplement with anything that catches our interest. I could never shell over the money for CC, just for the community aspect.
I didn’t even think to talk about the cost, but it definitely is not inexpensive. If you use it to its fullest extent, it could be worth it, but I agree that it’s a lot for just supplementation. I really do think it lends itself best to families who can really commit. Glad you’ve found way to make curriculum you enjoy work for your family!
THANK YOU…… will they refund me? Lol.
So honestly, I jived with everything you said. And it is really hard for me because I wanted to LOVE it. I love the community but the time it takes away. it does get messy. We also want to sink our teeth into other things.
CC is also very expensive and I want more children, and the price keeps increasing per child. Haha. For us, it has been a price to pay for access to Christian homeschoolers. I realized that it doesn’t have a TON of educational benefit unless we stick it out … and I don’t see us doing that… anyway! Your video really helped me. Thanks!
You will not be refunded. I found that out this year 😣 we’ve been doing CC for 5 years and this year was our first year of Challenge. We have decided not to finish out the year (thankfully I only paid for the first semester), because it’s very rigid and we’ve not had any time to focus on anything else. I want to have more flexibility in our homeschool journey. Hope this helps!
some directors have a very difficult time finding churches with more space due to covid. many churches close their doors. Also, CC does have a rule not to gossip about others and on social media as well
I hope my thoughts weren’t received in a spirit of gossip. I have nothing negative to say about the people we were in community with. I simply wished to share why it ended up not being a great fit for my family. I have friends that do CC and love it, and I think it’s great that we can all choose what fits best with the dynamics of our family. I have absolutely no hard feelings. I haven’t been in the Facebook group for a while, but the gossip rule was definitely not enforced during the time I was in it, and it made me sad to see the way people were targeted.
I did CC until I hit challenge. Then I stopped🤣 witch has a hard choice since I had been there with the same people since I was 8! But honestly challenge was to much on my plate and yet I still do not know how all the other kids could do it😅😅
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts! We've done CC for several years and the political cliques, not just on social media but in person as well, can become ridiculous!
One of the support reps had a personal vendetta against another family. It got so bad that they actually caused the community to lose the host church. The area rep turned a blind eye, all the way up to the CEO - Robert Bortins.
For a "Christian" organization, the leadership apparently doesn't know what that means anymore. The tutors and directors are wonderful. But the leadership? I don't think most of them deserve the title.
If anyone is looking to follow the CC method, it's based on Veritas Press.
I’m so sorry to hear about this.
Where did you see the info that it's based on Veritas Press please?
I do wish this review was more specific to curriculum.
Sorry you didn’t find exactly what you were looking for, but I hope you got the insight you wanted somewhere else. The methodology of the curriculum just wasn’t a great fit for my family.
This is exactly how we homeschool!
It’s so great to connect with likeminded people here. ❤️
I'm with you
Classical conversations is better if your community is also your church family! It's not for everyone but it works for a lot of families!!!
I know many people who love CC, and I’m so glad we can all do what works for us. ❤️
Thank you ! I was going to do a meetup thing with them, and I really want a ton of flexibility and child lead.
I have another pro/con video of CC on my channel that people might find helpful. 😊
We stick to Abeka (Christian based, traditional advanced) curriculum.
I looked at it for a bit. The whole thing felt kind of cultish and I feel so bad as a Christian saying this about a Christian based group. But it gave me an all around bad vibe. Also the cost for one semester cost exactly the same as a semester in college the only difference was CC was once a day at least college gave you more than once a day,
Sorry you got such bad vibes. There were some really great people in my group...just wasn’t a great fit. The cost can definitely be prohibitive for many.
I'm so glad you said this - "cultish"! The ppl in it talk it up so much wanting you to join it feels very... idk just weird.
Too be fair to classical style of teaching, CC isn’t typical classical. It’s Neo-classical. I found the curriculum to be lacking and we just used it as supplemental, rather than our main curriculum. :) I also incorporate CM into homeschool. I love being eclectic.
For me, co-ops in general are sensory overload. 😂
You also have to remember that not everyone who does CC is a Christian, even those that call themselves one. Plus, even being a Christian doesn’t mean you aren’t a sinner. Politics get heavy and this past year was bad but it’s not just CC. I’m not advocating for CC, but with that huge number of people in a group, it’s not going to be cohesive and/or kind and that shouldn’t be held against the company., especially since the experience with your community was positive. People are sinful, just pray for them.
When all is said and done, you are the biggest advocate for your kids and if it doesn’t fit, it doesn’t fit. The beauty of homeschooling is we have the freedom of picking what works best! Thank you for sharing your homeschool journey. I’m thoroughly enjoying your content.
Thank you for your encouragement! I totally hear what you are saying. The negativity on social media was pervasive all over, and it was so unfortunate. I don’t necessarily hold other people’s actions against CC, but it definitely made me uncomfortable. If it was just that, I probably could have just left the group and continued, but there were obviously other things that made it not a great fit, as well. I will say I do wish there was more moderation in the group going on when conversations got out of hand though. You’re 100% right though - all people are sinful, and we all need prayer. Thank you for watching and discussing this with me!
Your last point, I saw this sooo much during the election in like EVERY Christian group I am in. It was disheartening.
I hope we can get to a point as a nation where we can respectfully disagree without belittling others. It really is disheartening. We can have convictions without being condemning and downright ugly to others. I know I’m not perfect and had to check my heart a lot, but I think it’s so important to watch our tongues both on and off social media. I’m sorry you had to witness disheartening things as well.
I hear you on the sensory thing, sounds like a horrible set up for an autistic person, especially for sensitive kids. I always prefer working in outdoor schools than indoor ones ☺️🥰
Outdoor school sounds lovely...at least when it’s not 100 degrees here, haha!
@@TheHomeschoolConvert 😂 dont think ive experienced that heat before, I'm from northern Europe! 😁 It's great, love outdoor school, so much can be learnt with nature as your resource 🥰
We loved our community, but the second year a new family joined that was very involved and more influential locally than my son and I were. At the end of the second year, that mom posted in her FB wall a video of a transgender child and appealed to George Washington’s make-up wearing as justification. I calmly responded to the trouble with appealing to George Washington’s make up wearing on that subject. The original poster went straight to calling me a bully. The woman who was about to become the new director the following year, jumped on and commented that she agrees and something about “gate-keeping.”
There are so many more horrific stories from that group. The curriculum is great but the fact is there is a monetary incentive for directors.
I hope you’ve found something else that better suits your family. ♥️
I have noticed after three years off CC community, bc it is mostly moms, it tend to get cliques and when women dont like you, they usually dont fight, but go for reputation assassination, and gossip.
I don’t think this is true of all communities, but it’s unfortunate that it does happen.
CC isn't for everyone. It's good to stay connected. Every community is different.
I agree with every point made. 😁 We found a different type of program that’s a better fit for us.
@@TheHomeschoolConvert Could you please share the name of program. Thanks!
We've never considered CC even though our church heavily pushes it for homeschooling but the nasty behavior on FB isn't exclusively to CC I sadly saw that in every, single Christian homeschool group I was in and yes it was extremely off putting.
That’s so sad. I hope we can all look back and learn from it. ❤️
Just a story that may give a bit more perspective about how a lot of people in CC are not probably not people you want your kids around.
In my area there are 2 directors of CC communities that have been proven to be verbally abusive to non white students.
There is an additional 2 groups that are hosted at churches that are known for harboring extremely racist views to the point that if a non white person attends a service the pastor will change their sermon in order to publicly humiliate them for being "the evil sons of Cain".
One of the groups tried to protect a mother (that started a local homeschool facebook group) that attempted to murder her 15 year old gay son.
3 Hispanic families were told by numerous people heavily involved in CC their kids shouldn't join because the parents spoke English as a 2nd or 3rd language and that other students "didn't need to be brainwashed with multiculturalism because It may be offensive to other parents beliefs"
As a woman that will have biracial children, none of this makes me feel safe and I feel like the conversation about the problematic things that happen in the official Facebook group is as close as homeschool UA-cam has ever been to having that conversation, so Thank you.
Wow, that is heartbreaking to here. Not all CC groups are that extreme, but it’s tragic that they exist.
If you are looking for a nice succinct review, this is not it. She also reiterates the same points over and over.
"She" also reads and responds to comments. Hope you found what you were looking for elsewhere.
I have tried repeatedly to connect to a Classical Conversations community and have several in my area. None of them wore masks this year and will not next year and everyone in leadership that I asked was dismissive of them at best and openly mocked them at worst.
It was profoundly disappointing to me since I read The Well Trained Mind and believe in the classical model. At this point we are trying to decide if we are going with a private school next year or homeschooling, but if we homeschool we feel like we will spend another year without kids or community because the politics over safety are so deep in our area. My husband is very against homeschooling at this point because he feels like if our kids will be exposed to the virus either way they might as well go to school. :(
There is a company in our area that hosts Christian homeschool gatherings in their shop, but always said, ‘only free-breathers welcome.’ I always thought that was so disrespectful.
I’m so sorry you’re in this predicament. I live in Texas, so I get it. ❤️ I hope you can find a great schooling option that’s best for your family and your safety convictions. People should not be belittled or condescended to because of a difference of opinion about masks or other safety precautions.
We have run into similar sentiments in the HS community in our area. But take hope! There are more progressive HSers out there! You may have to seek them out! :)
Maybe I am misunderstanding the sentiment, but couldn't you wear your mask even if others aren't or don't want to?
I personally do not choose to wear a mask, but do not have hard or unkind feelings for those who choose to. I think everyone should do what they think is best for their family.
I don't think anyone should be excluded "masks/vax only" or "free-breathers only". Both sound really ignorant.
@@crystaljordan7318 I agree! It made no sense! They were criticized by pro maskers for having events that didn’t require them, but took it to extreme and said, ‘fine, it’s a closed event, no maskers allowed.’ Crazy! I didn’t want to go, so was just shocked at the stance they took. I’m a pro choice person myself.
belittled or told theirbelieve wasnt bibical. A lot of the time peoples even my own do not line up to scripture.
I think part of your comment is missing, but I’m sorry if you had a bad experience. ♥️
God...skip the first 7 minutes. Its the SAME thing over and over and over about how every childs different. Never watching her to learn anything again
I watched half your video too find out you quit because they wanted to get together but you didn’t because they’re not chewing on your covid fear porn lol ok for me this sounds like a reason I should join.
Hope it’s a great fit for you then! There was far more to it than that for us, and we’ve found a much better fit elsewhere. Each family is different, so I wish you the best.
Couldn’t take. It’s had to take someone serious that talks and sounds like a ditts
✌🏻
So you're a left-leaning Christian?
Hint 1: you never mentioned this is a Christian based Bible-based curriculum. Kinda important and odd that you didn't mention it.
Hint 2: you instructed at a community College
Hint 3: you felt sidelined politically during the 2020 election on FB
Hint 4: you didn't want your kids socializing with other kids during covid. Science came out pretty early on that the virus was a threat to the elderly or sick, not healthy kids
So...why not just say so?
Why join such a conservative Christian curriculum?
Why all the nervous laughter, especially towards the last 4 minutes of your video?
If I'm wrong, that would be a surprise. Just following the crumbs I saw in your video.
Just to clear some things up:
1: The Christian community is part of the reason I chose to try out CC. It had no bearing on why it didn’t work out for my family and why we ultimately decided not to continue with it. Most people interested in CC are aware of its Christian affiliation.
2: I primarily taught public speaking at a junior college before having kids, and my experience teaching there has zero significance concerning my political beliefs. I’m very grounded in my beliefs as a follower of Christ and, fortunately, was never put in a position where I had to teach anything in conflict with that. I’d quit my job rather than compromise my integrity or beliefs.
3: I felt “sidelined” by the poor behavior of people all over the political spectrum, not just by a singular party or ideology. The behavior I saw in the Facebook group was not the primary reason we left CC, but it was an observation I wanted to discuss. Ultimately, CC just wasn’t a good fit for many of the other reasons I mentioned on the video, and I continue to be friends with the woman who was my daughter’s tutor and is now the director of that community.
4: It’s pretty bold to assume someone and their family is not at risk when you don’t know anything about their medical history. I have autoimmune disease and was also regularly around family members who were elderly and at high risk. We made the best choices we could at the time to protect not just ourselves but also the people most important to us. Did we do it perfectly? No. But I think respecting other people’s decisions during what was a very difficult time to navigate goes a long way. Risk assessment and comfortability will vary among individuals. I had friends who completely isolated and friends who proceeded with life as usual. How people chose to handle it based on their convictions and their comfortability didn’t impact my thoughts on their character. We joined a better-fitting Christian community later on in the year when we became more comfortable again and cases weren’t so rampant in our area. When we left CC, cases were the highest they’d been in our area, so we made a short term decision to be more diligent than we had been until cases declined. Finding the right balance was admittedly not always easy. We didn’t “hole up” forever. I have contracted COVID twice and had long haul COVID symptoms for months after the second time and needed additional treatment, so I am thankful I never caught it when it was at its worse and hadn’t mutated to be more mild. Somehow my decision to put in some safeguards during COVID causes some people to assume I must be aligned with a certain political party. That’s just not the case. My motives weren’t political but based on trying to make the healthiest choices I could with the knowledge I had at the time.
Finally, I am, in fact, not left leaning. I think our two party system is broken and no party perfectly exemplifies the ideals and Gospel of Jesus Christ, quite frankly. To the best of my ability, I make decisions rooted in the Word, praying for the Holy Spirit to guide me. I let my religion inform my politics rather than politics inform my religion. I stand with Christ, not any singular political leader or candidate.
The nervous laughter you’re referring to was there because this can be an uncomfortable topic to talk about. However, I believe that sometimes these uncomfortable or hard discussions may be the ones most worth having. We should be able to have respectful discussions even if we disagree with people. This video was posted a long time ago now, and I debated including all the thoughts I did and have even considered deleting it since then. I 100% believe in the right to autonomy over our own homeschools and methodologies and have only ever wanted to share why something didn’t work for me in case it would be helpful to others. Some feedback I’ve gotten is that it has been helpful, while other feedback has hyper-focused on points I made at the end of the video. At the end of the day, if CC works for people’s families, that’s great. Truly. I now embrace a a more Charlotte Mason approach that isn’t really compatible with CC. I tried CC our first year of homeschooling, as I was discovering how I wanted to run our homeschool and found it to not to be a great fit for us, but I know it’s a great fit for others.
It’s easy to make assumptions about other people, and I acknowledge that when you put videos online you’re opening up the possibility for others to assume things or misunderstand your intentions. I’m an imperfect human being and may even unintentionally play a roll myself in those misunderstandings. I debated responding because honestly I haven’t posted videos in months, but I did think your questioning warranted a response because I think there are other viewers who have made some of the same assumptions based on their observations of this video. I also want to have dialogue and not just put my voice out there without engaging with the voices of others.
For anyone who reads, I unapologetically stand with Christ. CC didn’t work for my family, but I’m happy if it’s worked for you.
Hope that clears things up.
Ok overview. You do say “things” and “ideas” a lot without making a clear point. I’m glad you’re passionate about homeschooling. Maybe you should author your own curriculum.