RSGB: Direct to Full Licence Announcement - What do YOU think?
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Quite a big decision this one! Overall do you feel it benefits the hobby within the UK? Even elsewhere?
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I'm all for it. I took the multiple choice City & Guilds RAE exam in 1983 and this is very similar. I did a year of evening classes and then the exam. For me, it was preferable to dragging out to 3 stages... which I would never have finished! Now people have a choice.
They can do it in stages or one big hit to suit their needs and experience. 3 stages may suit folk who have no electronic experience whereas people from industry or higher ed, may prefer the one hit approach.
This new exam, like the RAE is in two parts and you have to pass both. The difference is that in the 80s, you then had to do Morse before you could use HF.
Now, one exam and you are done! A great way to get new people to the hobby and maintain standards.
Totally agree
In 1970. I went from novice to advanced class in one sitting. I had operated as a novice for about 18 months, but I had failed the 13wpm code 3 months previous. The examiner--a real, honest to God FCC horses rear-- gave the 20wpm extra test first. I had worked diligently on my code, and I copied it fully. I had even looked over the Extra theory and could probably passed it. The snag was that, at that time, the US FCC rules required 2 years as a general/advanced.
Things were different back in those days. You HAD to study because the tests were not "available" for pre-study--either you knew the theory or you didn't. You had to work for the privilege of becoming a ham. After listening to some of today's hams, it's pretty clear that even the extra class license holder can't build a simple dipole antenna and couldn't tune it if their life depended on it.
So, I don't have any issue at all with a person who walks in off the street and gets the highest amateur radio privileges IF HE/SHE KNOWS THE TECHNOLOGY AND RULES, but it would gall me to think that person can walk in, pay a fee for the testing and become licensed at any level without the level of knowledge that traditionally has been the hallmark of a ham radio operator.
Great points Bill thank you 73
I think this is a good idea as a choice. I've had access to a mock paper of the zero to full and it's definitely not an easy route! I already had my intermediate and was going for full at the time and it was tough to remember all required elements to pass. I think if you're capable of going straight in and passing, fair play. skip the stuff you already know, take the exam and get the callsign. As Tom R says though, definitely keep the 3 exam route open. I needed it!
My opinion: this is a huge boon to amateur radio, and I'm very excited that Direct-to-Full is an option now. I'm an American ham, AE8IS, having got my Extra last summer. I was basically direct to Extra (which is equivalent to Full), and I've got to say it was a great experience; very rewarding. If it wasn't for the ability I had to sit all three tests in quick succession, I doubt I would be as invested as I am now. I'm very busy at the moment with work and family, and don't get much chance to get on the air, but I have the electronics and maths background and do very well on tests.
Getting my license was a catalyst for jumping into many hobbies that I'd always had an interest in but never found the time for. I am now thoroughly committed in several SDR projects, I now own a great variety of radios, antennas and test equipment, and I've taught my children so much already about radio etiquette, propagation, RF & electronics safety, troubleshooting, etc. In radio I have a hobby that continually excites me; I'm never bored or wanting for something to do, and I find I can always find something to do with the 1-2 hour slots of free time that come up. At some point I know my current responsibilities will wane, and I'll know where I'll invest much of that spare time. I hope to continue to contribute to the hobby for the rest of my life.
I'm currently living in the UK for the next several months, and likely will return often over the next several years. While I could use my reciprocal license and renew as needed, I think this Direct-to-Full option makes much more sense for me. A HAREC license will be valuable, and I'd love to continue to polish my knowledge and skills. I'll be signing up for a test spot as soon as I can in January, and we'll see how it goes! Excited and grateful for all those who have gone before.
Agree - good points
I am all for it. I have met people whose intelligence was insulted by the current three tier system, one person I know took successive tests as quickly as possible with no study involved just a little time spent with me to grasp operational procedure.
Before the great unwashed, rain mac and egg stained tie brigade we see and smell at rallies and hear moaning on the air about I took a proper exam start moaning. We have all done the same as you "We took a test, as prescribed at that time". I would like to see some of the coffin dodgers take a current driving test, theory and practice.
You nearly cost me my life reading your comment drowning on a swig of gin as my eyebrows flew over my head.
Top marks for the friday night funny
Ha!
LOL!!!
I think this will be interesting. I'm an M7 and the thought of sitting just one more exam to get an M0 is tempting. Also for a 2E0 it may make sense to take the DtF as many questions you will already know the answers to and thereby there may be fewer of the more difficult questions from the full syllabus - whereas taking the current full exam would mean ALL questions are from the more difficult syllabus.
It’s a dilemma but a Choice for sure
When G0HIQ went to the WDRS in Wakefield he was asked if something like this would be better in regards to passmarks and bolstering the knowledge so people can actually learn in a compartment type of exam. They were told that it was not practical. That was in 2011-2 time. Now it seems they have gone the academic route that universities do in regards to learning. Mind you I was at that talk in Wakefield and even back then it was a sound and more productive way for people to get into the world of radio.
Great points - thanks
This is a good idea, multiple ways into the hobby is excellent. I'm not technically strong enough to make use of this, so I will be taking the long road. But like you said Tim, on balance this is a very good move.
I agree Jan
OARC had a candidate pass his Full exam today; having started his Foundation course with us 141 days ago
Superb
We have this in New Zealand and it's great. Sixty question multiple choice exam. When you pass you can use any band below 5mhz and above 25mhz for the first three months and you have to make fifty contacts in the that time. Then you have full access to all bands and legal power. The exam covers all facets of operation and safety. No morse requirement either.
Thats a good system
Great the RSGB have put this in place. I think jumping from foundation to full would be very difficult for me after reviewing the syllabus, so thankful the 3 stage option will be kept. Have to have a think of which route I may go now if I decide to move up.
It's important to have the option for sure 73
A good video that explored this topic really well. No issues with this path myself - good luck to the new Ham intake!. Observation; the low number of questions versus the three tier route suggests this isn't as demanding an approach (or explores the foundation of knowledge the RSGB suggests these candidates hold) . That said, I sat all three of my exams online and fully endorse this new approach. My friend is an electronics expert and I will be discussing this route with him - I expect he wouldn't have the foundations of operation, which would expose him when using the 'Full' licence privileges. In short, a very good move but I have reservations about how 'ready' these full licence operators will be to engage in our hobby. Pete M0WHT
Thank you Peter - some interesting points there 73
Wow this will be hard I think? I passed my Foundation with the Humber Fortress DX club, got 1 question wrong and it was the way the question was worded about identifying your station at all times, the bit about All Times threw me and in the answers was an option to stick a sticker on the radio - corse I went for that as it fit the way the question was asked to the way I read it. I did my Intermediate with the help of Billy GM6 - really good tuition but I struggled with the electronics maths and the guys on the course really helped by showing worked answers and how to understand what was being asked - without doing that course I would have never become a 2E0... lastly, I did my Full through Bath Distance Learning - Steve was an excellent tutor and the course was really good, as was my assigned tutor Rolfe, the first 6 weeks were brain splitting electronics but got through it and by week 12 was ready to book the exam, and funnily enough in the actual exam, I got the first 28 questions right including electronics, fell short on silly stuff that I believed I knew till I read the question and was put in to doubt about the answer by the way some were written - I doubted my understanding of the English Language on some of them lol but scraped by with 48 correct answers - So, when someone comes out with a course, be it a Club or some form of Distance Learning, it's gonna be tough and a lot will drop out as many 2E0's did on my Full course. For people like myself who had nothing to do with electronics especially or are just bog standard at Maths at best, then the 3 tier run up to Full would be the way to go. On my part as an M6 - I said to a few G/M0 hams I wouldn't move on until I understood how a balun transformer worked, not how to make one, but what actually happened when in use - I didn't get the full answer until I did the Full course, which gave me the understanding of this voodoo ring of ferrite to magically transform impedance to kinda 50 ohms-ish - who ever sat there and worked that out yonks ago really understood stuff - just the type who'd pass in this new way the first time... So I'd hope they still did both routes to Full for the sake of blokes like me lol
Yes they will keep both routes Lance
It’s how it used to be in 1955, I passed it in one paper , written exam, no tick boxes. 12pm Morse test too, not allowed to use ssb until one year on CW, submit log for proof. Don’t know which is best.
Great insight Roger - I suppose its down to the individual.
This is a brilliant idea, anything that brings new people to the hobby is good. The RSGB needs to maintain both pathways so that those with back grounds in radio can go straight to full unhindered and without losing interest. And young people
Good points
Absolutely no problem. As long as the current system is retained as an alternative . More access to the licence for some - why not?
Agree 100% Tom
Pretty good idea for those who are technically proficient (and there are lots of professionals who are), the only thing that stopped me going from Foundation to Advanced in a day was that there was no way to do it.
Sure, you do need operating experience and that's intimidating, but it's only as intimidating as going from zero to Foundation.
Excellent observation Clint
VK6MIK here, I got my foundation License even though I was easily passing the standard sample tests. I felt the journey from foundation to advanced License would be more enjoyable to me if I went though each of the levels one by one. I have a bachelor in Electronic engineering from years ago. But there is a very large amount of practical knowledge you have to learn to actually do the hobby. Designing an antenna in software, building it, tweaking it, doing it all correctly and having a great outcome is a lot harder than just learning the theory and passing an exam. The current Australian standard exams won't tell you how to set the alc correctly on your particular rig for ft8. I also had the issue that transmit on 40m would drop my home vdsl2 internet. Sticking a single ferrite on a flat untwisted modem cable won't fix that. Again not really covered anywhere in the exams. And this has to be a very common RFI problem on Australia where most houses are connected via vdsl2.
I have my standard exam booked and it's about 1 month after my foundation. Which seems like a good period in between for me anyway.
Good points thank you 73
fantastic, it may even get more people into the hobby :D
I agree mate, hope all is well
great vid tim i think its an opertunity for people who have alot of knowledge in electronics aswell as probably some practicle experiance with radio ie ex forces radio operators that dont realy need the foundation and intermediate levels for pretty obviouse reasons they would have covered 99% of the sylabous anyway but lets hope that people with no experiance of either dont do the oh ill take my chances an actualy pass by shear fluke might sound far fetched but could happen lol also yeah would be nice to know the cost of the test ie for those who byepass the three tire entry will it be more expensive for them compaired to say somebody who has done both foundation and intermediate or do those who hold foundation and or intermediate licences get a discount if they decide to do the two part paper instead of the present full exam paper as its already cost us alot of money aleeady to get our licences and if you could now just go straight to full licence for say £100 surely then current licence holders deciding to go for there full should be considered (if going for 2 part paper only ) some type of discount i will prob get a lot of flack for saying that lol chaz 2E0EMN
Good points, I agree
This is a great idea and long overdue. I've known several with backgrounds in radio and electronics that got deterred with the three part process. OK, ther epar epros and cons and if you are a slow learner the three part system may be better but having the choice is great.
100% - its all about the choice
I feel this decision is a good move forward for people whom come to the hobby that are experienced in this field due to their career or hobby. For me its the step ladder.
Totally agree
Great idea this .. I would have done this myself if it was available at that time.
You and me both!
Well as a VK, doesn’t really affect me. But here’s a thought. As someone with a commercial pilots licence, no pilots go “straight to airbus a380’s” do they….. they start off flying a light plane. No matter how smart or educated they are, pilots all start at the bottom. Is it really that bad to have to do your “ham radio apprenticeship” and work your way up? May be drawing a long bow, but hey, comments help your channel 👍
Fair points here - a useful perspective.
I am studying for my full having gone through foundation and intermediate but if it brings many more to the hobby then it is a good idea.
Absolutely
Excellent video. On balance, as an intermediate holder right now, I think I will go for the Full exam under the older syllabus. Mark, 2E0MSR
Thanks Mark - its about choice 100%
Apart from more up to date content, it looks very much like the RAE I did, Pass marks seem to be the same.
Many agree with that. Things always go full circle
I took part in the RSGB survey and think it’s a great idea.
Nothing I can find on the RSGB website though
Nicely put Tim 👍
Thanks Brian - I wonder why this has not been released - interesting...
my view is for what it's worth, I thought it was a good idea to have a foundation and the intermediate license they brought in a few years ago to open up the hobby and to get guys to start growing interest in the Hobby, I welcomed them in and helped where I could, But those who will not or can`t be bothered going up the license ladder should have their license revoked. The Foundation and the intermediate license are not recognized in some countries. they should have brought in a time limit when it first started. I went through the RAE many years ago. if I can take the time in doing and passing it anyone can. it takes a little dedication from them, then the Hobby opens up a whole new world.
What if someone has a learning/physical disability? Has an accident curtailing their ability to learn and study? Do we revoke those? Thing is, not just morally and ethically, but legally through the Equality Act you’d have no chance of enforcing it. And once you can’t enforce this for these circumstances, you cannot do revocation for all other F and I licence holders either.
@@timg5tm941 if the wrong people get hold of radio equipment it can cause chaos. I am all for equality but you have to draw a line somewhere. that is why you have tests and entrance exams. I appreciate it's a hobby but we have certain responsibilities. it still brings into question that there are those who can`t be bothered. I won`t apologize for my opinion.
@@brian.7966 no need to apologise, opinions are fine
Good idea if you can do it. The only thing is that some may have the brains to do the test, but no common sense when handling high power RF. That aside, everything else comes with the territory. Morse is either something you are interested in or not, it is getting a bit outdated with all the newer modes around anyway. However, it is something I was learning, but lost interest for the moment, due to other commitments. I think a lot will learn Morse, just because they can. Anyway, you will still have to get most of it correct. The practical side, if you didn't know a bit about it you would not be interested in radio anyway. Only my opinion!
Great points Bob thank you 73
It's like the RAE in structure.
Very similar
Great idea - as a tutor there are many who are more than capable of doing the Full but are (currently) held back to doing Foundation, Inter then Full. We've needed this for a long time and I'm glad it's here.
Totally agree
@@timg5tm941 Please excuse my ignorance, but does one have to wait a specific amount of time after passing each of the license classes? I know in the US it was that way at one point in time. Great to see the RSGB is going to allow a direct to Full path.
Great idea. I have always hated the idea of taking the intermediate, passing and then failing the Full. I would hate to be stuck with the 2E0 mouthful, my thoughts only. I looked up and my choice M0 call sign is taken and so once again another reason not to go any farther. I will take a look at cost and a sample paper and may change my mind, who knows ? 73's Andy M6APJ.
Let's see!
I passed my foundation in January this year, original plan was to take the intermediate exam about a year later. I'm currently of the mindset that I do not like the 2EO callsign and I am happy with my current callsign M7CVX, not wishing to change. I can manage with 10 watts, indeed my rig maximum output is 20 watts. I have no intention of buying yet another radio. Currently enjoying making a couple of magnetic loop antennas. 73's John M7CVX.
OMG. I am surprised you can't just jump to the most advanced licence from the beginning.
Here is Australia we have been able to start at any level for at least the past 45 years, probably longer.
I wonder what was the rationale for not allowing those who thought they could start at the top from doing such?
Anyway, it's a great opportunity for those that reckon they have the knowledge to give it a go.
There’s seemingly an unbelievable amount of protectionism within the RSGB, this I think will always be there. Credit to them though for somehow dragging themselves into the 21st century 73
I have mixed feelings. D2F was supposed to address the issue that those capable had to go through 3 levels of exams. This used to be an issue as it often took 12 months + and lots of travel over the UK to find exam centers. Nowadays you can sit all levels in one day and come away with some level of licence even if you fail the intermediate/full. Chances are the price will be comparable to paying for each level separately so i really don't see the value when you consider the administration cost and time to the RSGB and those who volunteer
I help with training at the Online Amateur Training Community Club M0OUK and we have had a fair few international students do foundation to full in 4ish months, especially Irish and other European students - so i'm expecting that to increase, but other than that i'm not sure this is a worthwhile exercise.
Personally, i would have preferred more focus on looking at foundation restrictions and, given the difficulty of intermediate as is, finding a way to potentially drop it and ease back on full to make it more accessible.
Time will tell, in the meantime as a club we are looking at streamlining our training to give D2F support - but as there is so much cross-over between the 3 stages and D2F - we will probably pitch it as options for assessment, rather than different things altogether
Thanks for these thoughts 73
My point of view should be one exam only but that make more money for srgb
Yes its an option for sure 73
Tim do you know why exams is under control of rsgb not Ofcom ??? Because In another countries licences and exams is under government nothing to do under the local radio association?
I went from nothing to fully licensed + morse (Advanced Amateur) in one day, in Canada, 1986… 100% on both exam and morse code. I did have to supply proof of competence.
The U.k. seems to be behind the “8 ball” on this one.
It's taken us far too long to get to this point again I agree
I think its a great idea . Better than getting messed up by so called clubs 👍👍
Thanks Aeron 73
The D2F needs a really good method of self evaluation for potential candidates or there will be some who are destined to fail.T here are people out there who are well able to pass the D2F but, will they be good operators?
That's he key thing Robin I agree
Let's see it FCC! (Go ahead and make it the old Advanced exam if you want!)
Yes!
It's a rubbish idea, on paper it's a great idea but in reality it turns all those now below full licence into plebs, 2nd class scum, not intelligent enough to have a full ticket, it's puts the power back in the hands of the fusty cretins who in their eyes will no longer treat you as someone just working through the grades at your own pace but instead be class as a idiot not worthy of respect as you couldn't get your licence straight out the bag.
Pushes the hobby back towards thoses who see it as an electronics based hobby which happens to focus round radio rather then as I think other countries see it as a communications based hobby based around electronics. Its why in this country you get so many with full licences who never talk on the radio, never give anything to the hobby. It's why in this country the hobby is seen as one for old men who sit in dusty shed with scopes and multimeters rather then people who get on the air & do great things of all ages.
Interesting points James
Yes Tim I think it is a good idea when I took my Exam it was the CITY AND GUILDS OF LONDON INSTITUTE Two Components and the Morse Test. I was very Lucky My Dad taught me the theory as he was in electronics and he was Licensed to enough of me waffling on 73 Tim de G6JMX
That was fortunate Barry!