Calli, Mumei & more discuss a recent Youtube change that's causing Trouble for them
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- When a streamer goes Live, there are numerous things they have to keep in mind and be aware of so that their content goes smoothly. Recently, however, UA-cam has made an arguable minor change that has given plenty of the Hololive English girls no small amount of headaches. Mori Calliope, Nanashi Mumei, Takanashi Kiara and Nerissa Ravencroft all speak up and experience this change firsthand, where their DVR settings when they go Live stay active against their wishes. Here are where they answer the questions of "Why is this a big deal for them?" "What exactly is DVR on UA-cam?" and "Can they really get in trouble with management if it's off?"
Thumnbail artwork commissioned from Pandoo!
x.com/pandoodraws
Artwork within the stream for Kronii and Bijou is from DDOLBANG
x.com/DDOLBANG11
Original stream:【Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree】giving in to madness (SPOILERS!) part 7
• 【Elden Ring: Shadow of...
Talent: Mori Calliope
/ @moricalliope
【OH HI】 oh hi
• 【OH HI】 oh hi #ohhi
Talent: Nanashi Mumei
/ @nanashimumei
【WAWA BIRTHDAY】KARAOKE WITH GUESTS (and merch !!)
• 【WAWA BIRTHDAY】KARAOKE...
Talent: Takanashi Kiara
/ @takanashikiara
【Terraria】I must dig. (Open VC and world)
• 【Terraria】I must dig. ...
Talent: Nerissa Ravencroft
• 【Terraria】I must dig. ...
【Party Animals】Gang At War With Promise
• 【Party Animals】Gang At...
Talent: Ouro Kronii
/ @ourokronii
【Escape the Backrooms】WAHHHH Scary Game!
• 【Escape the Backrooms】...
Talent: Amelia Watson
/ @watsonamelia
【Another Crab's Treasure】I'm feeling CRABBY
• 【Another Crab's Treasu...
Talent: Koseki Bijou
/ @kosekibijou
#hololive #holomyth #vtuber
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My Twitter: / lc_lapen
Calli's explanation for perfectly with the intercuts of all the others suffering with, love the extra work you put to your edits man
This is one of the reasons I appreciate Calli and Kiara so much. They always truthfully and clearly explain about the behind the scenes stuff going on. A lot of times I've wished it was enabled on one of the girls streams but I never considered that management would want it turned off in case someone accidently shows something yabai and it makes a ton of sense now.
Fit perfectly*
Dude that's actually some really nice editing on the clip
DVR is usefull when Pekora or Biboo do a pro move and you have to rewatch it.
Also useful for those with crap internet.
I have Google Fiber 5G-bit and UA-cam still buffers streams nonstop. If I want to catch Hololive live, I have to watch in 240p...
I can imagine that others with even slower net speeds have it worse.
----
I only have this issue with Hololive. I DO NOT have buffering issues with any other live streams (KSON/Delutaya/Rica/Mikeneko/IronMouse)... I'm beginning to think that my buffering issue is a Hololive thing and not an issue with my ISP.
Yeah, it's a great feature and streams that don't have it on are missing a ton of functionality / usability. I prefer watching streams that have it enabled if there is a choice (which there is sometimes, but not all of the time).
YTBetter for the win (enables DVR everywhere)
@@Yutani_Crayven when it's on, any time the stream buffers it results in you being put on a large delay from the stream unless you manually press a button to reset back to live which is annoying. This also means that chatters will be out of sync from what's happening on stream. Having it off also makes it easier for them to edit out anything in the stream that wasn't supposed to be shown without people rewinding to it.
you can also use extensionto turn it on for you.
The good reason to have it off is it increases latency. I'm guessing Hololive suggest having it off because they worry about people going back to get moments they want to remove from VODs, e.g: the talent says something they shouldn't, but seems pointless given we know every stream is being recorded by hosts of clippers and collectors, no way something doesn't get kept.
Yeah but they'll take any kind of mitigation they can get.
Generally clippers are genuine fans and wouldn't clip those moments. Even if they do it for clout, usually probably wouldn't want to stir the spot by posting something they know the talent or company wouldn't like.
If DVR is on even a casual listener has the potential of being like "ayo what" and then rewinding and clipping.
When they accidentally show a reflection or sensitive info for a second, it's hard for viewers to see what it is. DVR allows you to go back and pause. People can still do that if they recorded it, but it's much harder to spread without being taken down by Cover.
I have seen plenty of streams where it's been edited and I have no clue where to even look for on what was removed. The few things I've found have been on obscure archive websites that for some reason re-upload every single VOD.
It weeds out drama farmers who aren't actually tuned into the streams. I imagine if someone slipped up and DVR was on there'd be people notifying those kinds of people about it, whereas now the only people who are likely to bother recording the streams were already watching them and are probably fans of the streamer (and wouldn't want to cause trouble for them).
@@mindflair3732 you are giving clipper too much credit
A lot of clippers I see using click bait or out of context title in their video, ame addresses this and Kiara used to catch fire because of the clipper.
Clipper used to be a fan, but not anymore nowadays, i only see few remains.
even then 99% of viewers are not recording streams but I think it's more about the latency, it's too easy to desync and endup watching things delayed, so you might get people not noticing they are watching something from +10sec ago
oh the edits are great with this one mate
As a person who likes the DVR feature, I understand why Hololive wants it OFF.
Calli literally said why tho. If they leaks some personal information or something that shouldn't be public, with DVR ON it's much easier for people to simply go back a few seconds of the stream and print/record it. literally happened recently with Celilia's Minecraft RP stream when she let personal stuff from her desktop show and so the Vod was taken down for several hours before it was put back up.
Because the DVR is OFF she was able to continue streaming normally and make the VOD private only at the end of the stream. If the DVR was ON she would have to stop and take down the stream immediately.
The reality is, that moment was immediately screenshotted by people who have a "magic script" and shared in some communities. So it's almost impossible to hide such oopsies.
@@nik5632 The more dedicated will still catch it, yeah. It still helps by keeping the "average viewer" from simply going back 10 seconds and like OP said, allows them to continue streaming without immediately stopping to remove it.
@@nik5632 It's not about hiding, it's about reducing the blast radius. Sure, there's someone who is going to have that moment clipped or captured in low fidelity, but if the _vast majority_ of people are looking at the actual archive and not the clip, they're not going to see that moment. Then, in accordance with the clipping policy by Cover, they can have a chat with one person rather than having to chat to however many others.
And to be fair even without that, there are times when I appreciate the feature but it also tends to desync the stream. For whatever reason you just lose a fraction of a second here and there and by an hour into the stream you don't realize you're like 10-20 seconds behind live. The trade-off is probably worth it if you're not participating in chat but for those of us that do it gets pretty annoying.
Bro fr, I remember being so embarrassed chatting on kson's Undertale stream when I realized I was an hour behind. Thanks to DVR holding the stream back when I on habit paused the stream when I left to go do something. @ValkisCalmor
That explains why when (for some reason) my TV lags out and on some streamers I'm a few seconds behind, and others I rejoin at the current moment...
Yeah, I never knew what a DVR is until now. All i know is there are two kinds of stream, the one you can rewind and put at 2x speed to catch up the live and the one where it is always live
one of most important stuff of WHY DVR IS OFF is for stuff like....
THE STREAMER ALREADY OUTSIDE THE BUILDING.
but some chats, because late or internet lagging, they still on the scene where the streamer STILL INSIDE THE BUILDING. so they chat stuff about when they still inside the building.
that gonna be weird for the chat there. gonna make that chatter embarrassed if they know, and gonna confuse all the viewers there and also the holomemb
If I am completely honest, this dvr thing is the reason that I think that UA-cam is the better streaming platform. Missed the first 15 minutes of a stream, no problem just rewind back, put that thing on 2 times speed and a few moments later I am caught up and can enjoy the stream live again without having to wait like 5 hours until the stream is over to watch it whole
On Twitch if you go to someone's videos the stream they're currently streaming is there and you can do the same thing. There are no ads in VODs either. So you're kinda misinformed on that one.
I personally just don't like the super aggressive constant ads and prerolls on Twitch that completely interrupt the stream making you miss a huge swathe of it with no way to skip like you'll legit have to watch 30 seconds to a minute maybe even up to like 6 times and ad blockers don't even work for it. It's only really worth watching the one you prime sub to for free so there's no ads for them.
@@Velisatra oh no I know that you can go to the video section and click on the vod, but the problem with that is that the vod doesn't get automatically refreshed so if you missed 10 minutes you only can watch said 10 minutes and then the vod ends, and you are then forced to refresh the vod yourself to get the parts that happened in the stream while you were watching said vod which in turn makes it a huge hassle to watch vods on twitch while the stream is still going
and I completely agree on the ads part, they are a complete disaster on twitch
@@Velisatra Twitch's interface is a disaster though.
I mean, maybe it's just me because I don't use twitch that much. But if someone's currently streaming I can't get to the vods unless I type in the URL. If they aren't streaming there's an obvious button but it ain't there when they're live.
fr this! I've seen other vtubers' clips complaining about holomems not using DVR when they catch a Livestream in the middle. Seems very Boomer logic to apply appointment scheduling to streams when other media operates ondemand. There's a lot to complain about the chat anyway and recent UA-cam policies are k!lling clippers for "non-transformative" content
Lol! You guys get ADS! Lol! I NEVER get ads. Lol!
More options for the viewership is always superior for the viewership, unless poorly implemented. I don't even touch Twitch because they can't even keep older videos up, and after finding someone that you like you can only watch the most current stuff! You can never see, without ridiculous amount of searching, other things that made(make) them even better!
Having to cut things makes sense, tbh I always thought it was just to make sure chat was all reacting to the same thing instead of muddying what was being talked about (by some of them accidentally being behind).
UA-cam introducing stupid features or making changes without regard for the people making their money for them? No way, never. Not my UA-cam.
Huge reason DVR is annoying, is that viewers can still chat when they are behind. So you get people responding to things that happened a while ago.
thank you for the entertaining and informative clip edit!
This is where having a browser extension that could insert custom CSS to a page can come in handy.
2:00 That edit is wild, tho 😂👌
They tried to change layout as well, moving next video recommendation from the side into the comment section and move comment and video description into the side, it feels extremely weird and look hideous so hopefully they shelved that idea
That's why they'd do it!
They're all about finding new ways to intentionally piss everyone off. 💀
my youtube was like that for maybe two days and then it went back to being good again, so I hope that means they reversed the decision
@@waffling0 It has come and gone for me. It changed, then went to back normal, then changed again and now I'm back to normal once again.
bib's bgm is like a sleeper agent after watching all those wiggles💀
I bet this is yet another case of some UI designer trying to justify their job by pitching stupid changes to their superiors, without really thinking about the knock-on effects it will have...
The part where moom coughed out a brat is just lmao
tbh I prefer DVR being on being able to rewind. Sucks coming an hour late then having to wait hours to even be able to start without missing the first hour and then watching it out of order or not at all. I think it's mostly a corpo thing for protection so they can remove anything they don't want in it without people being able to immediately clip it. And maybe people are more likely to donate when they're watching live.
It also helps mitigate latency issues, to lower stream delay as much as possible, and prevents viewers unknowingly being like 30 minutes behind and chatting or even sending superchats about things that are no longer relevant to what is happening in the stream.
Basically DVR on is better for us but not the streamer and vice versa, and since the streamer is the priority its going to stay off if they can help it
Doesn't really make sense when there are stream archivers everywhere. Anybody can run ytarchive and have it automatically download whenever a stream goes up
We love setting resets with updates 😃
Jurard from Holostars also had his DVR on by accident in his 7 Days to Die stream.
A fitting outro for the yt fiesta :)
I will never understand why tech companies keep removing minor but still useful features for absolutely no reason.
I LOVE your outro.
Mumei being featured fits so good.
No worries, Calli; I have an awesome clipper community to highlight all your dumb mistakes and most embarrassing moments, and make sure they are reviewed thousands of times now and indefinitely into the future
I really feel for the people who get their income from this hellsite. UA-cam corporate are constantly making decisions that make it harder for creators to access income while trying to force them to pivot towards kid-friendly content (see also: the rise of clickbait titles and thumbnails as well as children's songs).
Love the thumbnail!
Very nicely edited!
It's not about whether having VCR on is better or not. It's about UA-cam practically forcing streamers to have it on even if they don't want it to.
I like DVR because you can tune in late to a stream and catch up form the beginning. Specially if you use speed higher than 1x
Don't know what I like better, the Shika reference or Moom coughing up a little Rrrrrat she had for lunch.
So that's why there were random days that I could pull the slider on the stream.
The owl noises with Mumei lol
I love your outro lmao it fits so well
2:13 Toddlers when they find the Dish Soap
Thanks for the clip and explanation, learned something new today
what an absolutely weird thing to do. the streamer is conditioned to notice blue = on. changing if to white messes with that association.
looks like youtube back at it again with horrible amd weird decisions
Latency with the DVR on and set to normal is about 25 seconds. Compared to twitch which is like 2 seconds. The catch is that DVR is useful for clippers, and that added latency can also keep chat from spoiling/backseating/cheating. But it does depend on the content itself. The problem is that some people will start watching a video and not realize they are watching it from the beginning rather than the live portion and start commenting on things from minutes ago.
DVR can actually be quite annoying when watching a stream on the side, since it may sometimes pause for a while and fall behind. And chat will still be live, so now chat and the stream are showing totally different things
Ngl I love dvr because the amount of streams I've had to miss because I come an hour late to is crazy. That being said, I much prefer people not being doxxed or getting in big trouble.
A real contradiction that youtube hates clippers but has this feature automatically turned on.
At least i now know why i am able to rewind some streams while others i cannot
Huh, was not expecting the backrooms clip in this considering how recent that was
great example for rewinding though, heh
Sadly, I watch via a device connected to my TV, & it doesn't like playing non-DVR streams live. So, I'm stuck watching the VoDs.
Among all issues with youtube, this isn't even worthy of attention. I am more frustrated at youtube's censorship & shadow ban policies, scam ads by youtube & youtubers, grooming videos in youtube kids etc.
DVR being off is THE reason I don't watch any content live. I like to go at my own pace. Rarely an issue but sometimes I catch an interesting stream and skip watching the whole thing since I know I can't start from the beginning. And then I forget about it later so I end up never watching it.
Wonder if that’s why when you watch a short while watching a livestream, you come back and it’s not “live” anymore.
It is a bit of a shame they can't use DVR though, it would make syncing collab POVs possible
I really wish they were allowed to stream with DVR. It's the primary reason why UA-cam streams are so much better than Twitch. I can see why Hololive specifically doesn't like it though, but it's a shame.
Oh, don't worry. YT will probably remove the option to turn it off soon.
that explains why ame zatsu was acting up
Always hated them having it off rlly takes away the one cool thing about streaming on youtube being able to go back from the start of the stream n play at 2x and catch up to the live stream
I would personally love to see this used more, I mostly watch vods because streams are so inconvenient to watch at my own pace and I always lose stuff. I understand it in hololive’s case tho, so many people try to feed off their success that you have to make it a little inconvenient for those people that want to create drama content from small slip ups or potential doxxing moments.
Hmm but i like that option when i watching live competitions
For some reason it amuses me that Calli is the one who knows what's going on. That said, moderately scummy and/or dumb move by UA-cam
dvr is a good way to back track but it causes more stream latency and lowers the quality a tiny bit..
It's annoying when I can't rewind the stream.
You look as pretty as aways Calli and Mumei✨️ 💕 💖
PSA: use the extension, Force enable UA-cam DVR, if u want live playback. Note, when u open a live stream, it will appear to not have worked, refresh the page and itll be active.
Funny thing is, I'm using literally the same extension, "Force enable UA-cam DVR", but when I went to check it's page it seems to have disappeared from the Firefox add-on site. No idea what happened there, but people looking for it will have to try other extensions doing the same thing.
Edit: found the answer on extension's Github repo, apparently it stopped working for the developer, even though it still works for me. Must be UA-cam rolling out changes only for some people, but not the others again. In that case, looking for extensions that enable DVR might not be straight-forward anymore. Sigh...
@@MrCh0o still there for chome/opera
@@reignedaze Yeah, the Chrome store page just has an update saying it no longer works. That's where I found the link to the developer describing the issue.
Well, I guess if it also works for you, it might be fine for others too
I mean... If the streamer has this feature disabled, then the intent is clear that they don't want this feature to be leveraged... So maybe _don't_ use a plugin for it?
@@MakotoTheKnight clippers literally record the stream from start to finish, nothing is ever lost. my bad for working 11 hours and getting to stream 30mins and wanting to watch it from the start and not wait 5 hours for it to finish, oh wait its beds time.... they disable it solely because it creates more delay when THEY have it forced on EVERY viewer. their company is the one who don't want it on for "erasure" reasons, are u on corpo side or the user side? let themt ake away a few mroe of your features and freedoms and we'll see
While I get the reasons why, it seems pointless to me. There are already 20 people recording the entire stream in full on every channel and if something happens it's gonna get clipped one way or the other. And having DVR off means that if I miss a great moment (not even like a accidentally show credit card, just like a funny death or something) I can't go back and watch it. Seems completely pointless to me
bruh did anyone watch the full clip cuz i see ppl being 'I am guessing hololive does this bc.....' when it was already explained in the video and people who have common sense can clearly understand.....
The enshittification of UA-cam continues 😒
what's the point when there's gonna be dozens of people recording the whole stream live anyway
Wait... Hololive doesn't have like a chrome plugin that prevents them from going live until they have the right config? Show red boxes or something
Why did youtube change things from having blue highlights to just white/gray?
I wonder if management knows clippers record streams live anyway, so 'mistakes' are going to get saved and plastered all over the internet, whether DVR is on or not.
UA-cam still allows people to chat while they are not watching live, so you also get some people reacting in chat to something that happened like an hour ago, which can make chat harder for the streamer to read.
Good video!
Its the whole convenience vs security trade off again. Honestly unnecessary in this case as archives are constant in certain forums/servers and the people there would spread the clip no problem.
I wonder if UA-cam would make dvr mandatory in the future? 🤔
Wait is DVR for the streamer or the viewer? I don't get the issue with the ability to rewind.. we do that on normal youtube videos and stuff...
Dvr is super useful for the viewer they should have it on
I wish they could keep it on again, I hate not being able to rewind a stream
Is there a reason why UA-cam and Twitch seem to be actively hostile to it's content providers?
I like dvr
The whole thing seems designed to be unintuitive. Why call it DVR? That would be like calling UA-cam "RealPlayer." It's a non descriptive term that relies on the user knowing a reference to dated technology.
Because the thing that people most associate DVRs with is the ability to rewind and skip in live content. Before DVRs, you had to either watch live or you had to use a VCR to record, but you can't seek a VCR while it is recording.
@@zirconiumdiamond1416 Just call it "rewind" or something then? People like Kiara didn't have English as their first language, and no offense to her but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw "Enable DVR" and thought "What the heck is that?"
Yesss UA-cam, Let the Clippers CLIP!
Oh, great, now im gonna go to my grave wishing moomz could use the smiling friends theme
but... but I like DVR
DVR is so useful if you missed something and wanted to quickly rewind, let alone simply showed up late and wanted to watch it from the beginning without waiting for the entire VOD. Best thing about UA-cam's streaming, seems asinine to disable it.
But I guess if there's an accident, people can't instantly go back and clip it? And I guess you can make a stream's VoD inaccessible before the stream actually ends? (no idea). So, in the very small % chance something happens, we all get to have a worse experience. Typical.
I love GUP but every good thing needs to come to an end, I mean the name is Das Finale.
Is there (still) a functional method to force-enable UA-cam DVR on Firefox? The Chrome one claims to be broken, the Firefox ones seem to be gone, and I don't know if that one purported alternate installation of a Firefox version is legitimate.
UA-cam where the customers are not the streamers or the watchers, but the advertisers.
Some people, Like myself, Will just ignore streams that need context if DVR is disabled. I have literally no intrest in a "starting Elden Ring" stream. That is 2 hours in and has no DVR avaliable.
So that is probably why UA-cam keeps putting it back on.
Thankfully I have a Chrome plugin that lets me override their choice and always have it on. 👍
Kinda sad. I like DVR.
They must be joking DVR is such a useful for us viewer who wanna rewatch a moment we liked, seriously why does holo think DVR is bad, it's not, it's good please keep it on
Talking about paranoia from Cover's side
@@Upsaul It's not really paranoia to cover your bases to protect the safety of the talents. Sure there are already clippers, but having DVR off prevents every random schmuck from documenting things. As a viewer it's really not the end of the world to miss the start of a stream
It's probably because UA-cam still allows you to chat while you are not watching live, so you also get some people reacting in chat to something that happened like an hour ago, which can make chat harder for the streamer to read.
@@karonuva for me it's just nice that if I missed the first 20mins or if I missed something because I was distracted because of something that I can rewind and see why they were laughing, I really can't see what DVR can do that clippers and people who record streams can't do
@@karonuvaPlus it's the difference between leaving a door open, and having it locked. Sure, people can still easily open it, but now they have to demonstrate greater intent to do the thing that a reasonable person wouldn't do.
Dvr is useful but sometimes annoying when it wont stay up to date with the latest milisecond
DVR is good though. It allows anyone to catch-up if they join late.
i mean idk why anyone is surprised by anything when they stream on youtube. its not coincidence that twitch is better for streaming and was the first streaming platform to pop off
man having biboo's dvr on was a miserable day for me at work. I just listen to her streams and kept it on my pocket. and for some reason it just kept rewinding holy hell that was annoying. faqing youtube.
Whats wrong with dvr? I personally would want streams to have it on as it makes it easy to see what i missed
There the vods you can watch if you miss the stream or get there immediately
Yea which only really makes sense if youre nearing the end of a stream. Imagine being 20 mins late to a 3 hour stream and now u have to wait a whole 2 plus hours to see the entire stream from the start
@@shisuiuchiha752 Yeah I sure love having to wait an indeterminate amount of hours to be able to watch the VoD because I missed the first hour. Will it be 2 hours until I can watch it? Or will it be 6 hours? Or maybe 10 hours. You never know. Shame I can't just rewind the stream to watch from the beginning.
@@Deadgye lmao i love the sarcasm.
Edit: nobody is detecting the sarcasm kekw
It's probably because youtube still allows you to chat while you are rewound you also get some people reacting in chat to something that happened like an hour ago, which can make chat harder for the streamer to read, or they can keep bringing that one thing up throughout the rest of the stream. Which obviously gets repetitve.
good thing clip channels are being taken down haha cant have that rewind time going on need to cut this and that out
No DVR is the #1 reason I don't watch Hololive. If I get interrupted by anything or have to take a bathroom break, then I would just have to miss out on a big chunk of stream and lose the context for the conversation.
You could just watch the archive later though 🤔
@@MakotoTheKnight Doesn't feel the same when I'm not watching/chatting on something live. It's pretty rare that I can get motivated to watch VOD's
@@Syphilis-Buddy Not that I disagree - I do like watching things live rather than archived - but it's a trade-off. I'm fine with watching the content - eventually, even - and I'd rather the talents not feel stressed out when trying to stream over the fact that they may have some broadcast blooper that people are empowered to loop over and over again, so I'm OK with not being able to rewind. If I'm not motivated to watch the archive then that's probably fine too; I could just catch the next thing they stream.
@@MakotoTheKnight I mainly watch Phase Connect, and there's definitely a huge difference in how much they care about "bad" things staying in the VOD's. Panko accidently said the N-word on stream because she is ESL (she mispronounced the country Niger) , and that's just sitting on a VOD on her channel. The impression I get from Hololive is that they care WAY more about image than other streamers, so I kinda get it even if I don't like it.
UA-cam trying to not make the most stupidest changes to their platform challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
i mean DVR is a good thing and this change seems unintentional
Not having rewinding available is the actual reason I don't watch vtubers. It's unbelievably stupid. And the reason is even more stupid. It's not because of mistakes, its because of people chatting not live, and about making people more tempted to send superchats.
DVR?
they explained it in the video
1:52 I kinda like Calli's face here when she says "Oh my lord..."
i hate monopolies
you act like this is a big deal or that this was done maliciously lol i wish they used DVR
but why is that a bad thing tho ?
she literally explains near the end of the video
There's always someone recording the stream, it doesn't help much
It might actually help from a legal perspective. If they just leave a thing where anyone can easily see it, then that's one thing, but if the clipper had to circumvent the disabled DVR, be recording the VOD, and show intent to keep something sensitive, it likely makes it easier to pursue them legally.
Any idiot can record streams, so turning DVR off is pointless.