REACTION | Bishop Barron Concerns With Synod On Synodality
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Bishop Barron has some concerns with the Synod on Synodality. In November, Bishop Barron wrote an article published at Word on Fire titled, "My Experience of the Synod." In it, he highlighted some positives about his experience in Rome, but what caught my attention was his concerns. To read Bishop Barron’s full article, the link is below. Today, I bring forward one of Bishop Barron’s concerns about the synod to Fr. Cristino to get his thoughts and reaction.
Support our work here:
kenandjanelle.com/
Read Bishop Barron’s article titled, “My Experience of the Synod”
www.wordonfire.org/articles/b...
Please consider supporting our work here: kenandjanelle.com/
The catholic church is one of the richest most corrupt organizations on the planet with a long laundry list of atrocities... it's not what you say it's you do.. I'm fairly positive god wouldn't put a bunch of pedophiles in charge of his "church"
We are on the fallen world, willing to enter to the heaven. Of course we respect the earth for it is a creation of God, but our mission is not to fix it, but to save ourselves and as many as others.
Thank you for this. Fr's gentle corrections and slight pushbacks are unmatched. Ken, your honesty and humility is inspiring. Keeping you both (and your loved ones) in my prayers.
to Shabshank, "Keeping [as always in uncertainty] you both ...", in uncertainty I believe applies to the inseparability and qualitative equality of subjective progress in meeting need of union of been in consecrated marriage, either celibate or male female, and objective progress in procreation gift role of doing in such consecrated marriage.
This was kept in uncertainty of his belief by Pope Francis' consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ from 17 June 2021 in the cases of his Vatican state Cardinal Angelo Becciu + 9 citizens/employees alleged embezzlements of his ensuring procreation role gift charity donations and of the Italian state Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill as an unacceptable risk of fraud on his identity as a consecrated celibate married by vows to man in Christ in his consecrated celibate marriage's keeping of their inseparability and qualitative equality.
This keeping by Pope Francis' consecrated celibate marriage was on the reference point of Mary keeping in uncertainty of her belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of her consents to be joined in her present moment both objective and subjective as particular circumstances in real presence in consecrated marriages, celibate vowed to man in Christ at Lk1:38: "let it be to me", and male female at Mt1:24: "Joseph ... took his wife".
I feel the leader(s) of the Church are more concerned about pleasing people, than pleasing God. Serving God.
Some are more afraid of the devil than of God
@@briankenome some do not fear the devil at all, the Pope said basically that he'll is empty
I would agree
@@kathysiebers2058perhaps he ought to reread the account of his predecessor Leo Xlll and the vision he was given in the Vatican
@@kathysiebers2058 Actually he said in his personal hope (not officially) that he had hope that hell was empty. As all Christians should...r
Recently attended part of a mission retreat in a nearby parish in Estevan SK. All about being a more inclusive and listening church not a word about saving souls. Thank you for your wisdom Fr.
to GerardFornwald, do you refer to "soul" (RSV Acts 4:32) as meaning "mind" (NIV Acts 4:32)?
What did you expect? That's the Catholic Church today (i.e., post-V2). Confirm Pope Benedict XVI's encyclical Spe salvi, wherein that supreme pontiff assures us that we may assume that the great majority of souls are fundamentally oriented to goodness (i.e., God) and don't need 'saving' (they're already on the road to salvation, because of their fundamental deep-down goodness). Confirm also JPII's Redemptor hominis: 'every man without any exception whatever - has been redeemed by Christ, and because with man - with each man without any exception whatever - Christ is in a way [aliquo modo] united, even when man is unaware of it: "Christ, who died and was raised up for all, provides [praebet] man" - each man and every man - "with the light and the strength to measure up to his supreme calling." (Gaudium et spes 10)' Confirm Bishop Barron's Balthasarian "let's hope that every single person will be saved" -- i.e., that everyone will be saved regardless of what "the Church" -- or anyone else -- does.
Thank you both for your gratitude and generosity. I am a Synod delegate in my Archdiocese and also a formation deanery mentor. Last week I attended a meeting that included twenty two other Synod delegates. In break out groups, my prompting that the Church exists to proclaim the kerygma was met with silence as was my proposal that the third person of the Holy Trinity is being side-lined. In hoc signo vinces +.
Thanks for sharing.
Yes, thanks for sharing. But that is because the Vatican has apostatized from the faith. It has coopted the mission of Jesus Christ for some sort of worldly mission, something that is anathema to the Church.
Very well said Father, the concern I have and most of concerns of others critical of the current climate in Rome is the lack of “ is there no one left to condemn you, nor do I condemn you, but go and Avoid this Sin. The lack of direction to repentance for the salvation of souls.
to richardwinter, Pope Francis' consent to be joined in his uncertainty of belief in his present moment in real presence in consecrated celibate marriage on the reference point of Mary keeping in unity in uncertainty of her belief the inseparability and qualitative equality of its justice ("go, and to not sin again", RSV Jn 8:11) gift of her consecrated celibate marriage (Lk1:38) and its mercy ("Neither do I condemn you", RSV Jn 8:11) need of her consecrated male female marriage (Mt1:24) and vice versa on 17 June 2021 in his Cardinal Becciu and nine other Vatican state citizens/employees and the Italian Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill cases kept this in uncertainty of his belief.
This keeping unity by Mary in uncertainty of her belief was in out occulting the occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate evil of inverting justice and mercy for economic advantage of families of the groomers in their diseased identities of psychologically and or emotionally vulnerable family members in their roles by tax-exemption embezzlements and lower insurance cost by fraud with a non-economic groomed inducement of falsely purported presumed "higher vocation" (Pope St John Paul 2's Council for the Family "Guidelines", TTMHS, 1995, 35; cf. St Paul, 1Cor 7:25-34) of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God.
Thanks Ken, I have had a great pleasure if listening Fr. Cristino via your" Catholic Minute! I so appreciate How you provide this wonderful opportunity for the faith to grow
Thank you so much for this episode Kwn. Very insightful. I am very thankful to God for people like tou who can stay focused on God and help us keep focus on God. Not to get side tracked by all the issues. Stay vertical and not get horizontal. Reminds me of the parable of the sower not letting to get distracted by the issues of the world the anxieties of todays life. We should proclaim Christ to the world. God bless you Ken and Father thank you for being on the show. Praying for your chaplancy.
Watching you from Zambia, Africa.
Praying for you both! Thank you - continue your work! We need it! God bless you 💜🙏🏻💜
Amazing conversation. The very last part about adult ministry really hit my. I was in a youth group in high school and a college ministry during college but afterwards it felt like I was thrown to the wolves.
I also understand there are people my age who did not receive the opportunity to hear the good news as a teen/YA or maybe heard it but was not yet ready to listen.
A nearby parish has groups for so many demographics from child to senior. Good work
Thanks for listening and sharing.
Great talk, thank you for expressing my concerns.
If we did give up our ugly sins including the abortion sin particularly then The Lord will show us Mercy save souls & the planet. So "seek first the Kingdom of God & all these things will be given us" Mathew
So interesting and informative besides affirmative in so many levels. I am so grateful for this discussion because it answers basically my doubts and misgivings about current news coming from Vatican.
Thank you, Ken.
Thank you, Fr. Cristino.
+JMJ+
Bravo! Great program with such clarity, love and truth !
I just have to share. If you two are talking I'm listening. Such good and wise words flow from both of you. Thank you for this. It's all very good instruction to live our Catholic lives in a meaningful way. Prayers for you all and your ministries. 🙏🤲🙏💖
PRAY, PRAY, PRAY FOR THE CHURCH OF CHRIST !!!!!
The mission of the Church is the salvation of souls. The only reason why Jesus became man was for the salvation of souls. For the Church and the salvation of souls...❤️🙏🙏🙏❤️
Thank you that was so well put best explanation I have heard
So true n TQ what we need is salvation n not too much about our environment.
Father Christino is so inspiring. Thank you for this video!
You are so welcome!
I honestly think that the vertical dimension is what’s more “fun” - it makes life worth living and without it - life is dry and dull and empty
Yes a wonderful reflection -- let us not forget that for so long the focus was reversed and how much suffering resulted from missing our need to recognize our life on earth - the need for justice and mercy here. The same for the recognition of the need to repair the neglect of the environment . How much suffering is the result of this neglect. The mission is clear to Love God and our neighbor ! So all of this follows from the Great Commandment .
to diannefitzmaurice, yes if corrected as gift of "justice" and "need ... for mercy", but only I believe in the keeping in uncertainty of belief of their inseparability and qualitative equality as by Jesus at RSV Jn 8:11: mercy need as: "Neither do I condemn you", and justice gift as: "go, and do not sin again".
Ken your point of view about listening is right.
Thanks for the sharing conversation with both of you ... interesting and positive. Vertical & horizontal are the interesting arms of the cross on Calvary and they need to be together always. The horizontal arm was carried by Jesus and Simon up to the place of Calvary ... Always is on my mind the embrace of Jesus to our own broken humanity - shoulder to shoulder - and his 3-4 last years among us elevating everything to the Father's blessing so that we may benefit as children in the family of God. It is a gift. Perhaps "Synodality" (what a word) is just a moment in our Church history to remind us who and where we are going as we still walking now into a future not jet ours. Thanks
It takes a bit of mental gymnastics, but there is a profound difference in performative morality and the Word of God given to us. Some make it up as they go along. Bishop Barron deeply understands the depth and need to understand these difficult commands.
Really? Alas, Bishop Barron continues to be a mixed bag who is ultimately unreliable in many respects. Note the following he also wrote involving his observations on the Synod...and try to not throw up...and please do not try to spin it to make it less troubling than it actually is:
"The summary statement very accurately expresses the fact that the overwhelming concern of the synod members was to listen to the voices of those who have, for a variety of reasons, felt marginalized from the life of the Church. ... Women, the laity in general, the LGBT community, those with disabilities, young people, men and women of color, etc. have felt unappreciated and, most importantly, excluded from the tables where decisions are taken that affect the whole life of the Church. I can assure everyone that their demand to be heard was heard, loud and clear at the synod. And I’m glad it was. ...Therefore, if there are armies of Catholics who feel excluded or condescended to, that’s a major pastoral problem that must be addressed with humility and honesty. And I can say, as someone who has been a full-time ecclesiastical administrator for the past twelve years, I am delighted to receive the counsel of laity in regard to practically all aspects of my work. Expanding the number and diversity of those who might aid the bishops in their governance of the Church is all to the good, and bravo to the synod for exploring this possibility." (“My Experience of the Synod” by Bishop Barron. Nov. 21, 2023)
Note how Bishop Barron enthusiastically accepts the false narrative of the need to “listen” to many supposedly oppressed “marginalized” groups within the Church. This narrative is just another manifestation of left wing, Marxist-type propaganda rubbish that is being used by leaders of the Synod to promote its agenda of destroying the traditional hierarchical Church established by our Lord. Because of this, many wrong prescriptions will be provided by Bishop Barron and others to “cure” non-existent problems and thereby bring about greater problems and harm to the Church based on numerous falsehoods accepted as truth.
We listen to God in order to know him, to love him, and to serve him.
Ken, Your distinction between “subjective experience” vs divine revelation was spot on! Yes, it’s good to listen to people for sure, but scripture teaches that the heart is deceitful above all things, and subjective experience is a terrible standard to use as the basis for making decisions in our life. Aligning yourself with the teachings of Christ is the rock on which we build our lives - not subjective experience!!!
I'm involved in my diocesan synod in Poland. I keep pushing education of the faithful, education of the faithful, education of the faithful in the REAL teaching of the Church. People are woefully under-catechized and the Church in Poland is hemorrhaging people, some formally renouncing the faith in support of feminist/abortion/gay agendas, and most just drifting away as they pursue material goods. In our community - which is for foreigners living in Poland - we are not waiting. We are creating and publishing and giving away pamphlets about aspects of the faith that people need to understand and practice, so people can go deeper into their faith, starting with confession and prayer and understanding Catholic teachings and the scriptures. We are not waiting for the 'hierarchy' to read our comments and 'do something.' We're evangelizing our people and offering as many devotions and opportunities to pray together outside of Mass as possible. Oh, and NOBODY in our group has said that what the Church really needs is a policy on climate or gays or even migrants (though all our people are foreigners living in Poland) or communion for people who are living in sin, etc. All they want is the true teaching of the Church and to be helped evangelize others, bring them to faith, and serve Christ in the community. People want the REAL FAITH, and want to become holier Catholics.
It seems at times that liberation theology has slipped into the Vatican. Salvation of souls must be the central focus of the Church. When true conversion occurs, generosity and caring for those in need is a natural out pouring of the spirit of God's love. The early Church is a great example of this.
We listen, not for knowledge or information, but to know the other, to come to love the other, to discover what they need, what their gifts and goods are and what their faults, fears, anxieties and wounds are.
Very very good.
Leaders in the church removed the organ (tradition) and expect the function (love God Love Neighbor).
Tradition = Eucharistic Revival
Many environmentalists preach scarcity, therefore overcrowding. I think the correct Catholic response would be the Gospel of abundance: there is plenty for all.
Fascinating discussion of profound issues facing the Catholic Church. We can never go wrong by asking ourselves 'How would Jesus Christ be considering these issues?' In 2022, for the first time in the history of humanity on Earth, there was over 100 million refuges and immigrants on the move. Men, women and children who did not know where they were going to sleep at night, or where their next meal was coming from. And there is every indication that climate change will make the refuge situation worse in the future. We could put up high walls to keep those that have nothing out, but I wonder what Jesus would do. In some ways the strength of the Catholic Church depends on the way that we consider social justice issues. The older, more conservative American Bishops, Priests and Catholics don't recognize the speed at which the physical Earth and world societies are changing, where-as the younger generations seem more focused on helping their neighbors. We can argue over missions and semantics, but 'love thy neighbor as yourself' is pretty straight forward and easy to understand.
Fr Christino, Justice is doing lifting our eyes as gift. Mercy is looking around in our need to be, not to "do". See Jn 8:11 for the keeping of doing justice gift and mercy in need of been in uncertainty of belief as inseparable and qualitatively equal.
Well 2 things:
1.- The father is listening to you, and what you have to say, and what the Spirit has prompted you to communicate, so, the synod is doing just that at a higher scale.
2.- The problem with the environment has to do with people not following the instructions of God given in Genesis to Adan, we didn't follow the natural order, thus we imposed our disorder into the creation of his most beloved Son thus we end uo where we are, the Holy Father is just reminding us to be stewards of the garden and not only taking it's fruits.
God Bless
The mistake that trads are making is that listening does not mean agreeing. If you want people to listen to you, a lot of times they have to feel listened to first. By listening to them you can introduce them to a truth at the place theyre at that will make sense to them.
Keep it up!
The point about listening to others is understanding where they are coming from in order to be able to communicate the Faith to them in a way that might work in charity, and not just tell them and lecture them. +
Discipleship entails the care of the environment, of nature. Discipleship and nature are not disconnected. The latter has to be cared for not only in gratitude to God but also as the moral preservation of the so-called ""goods of the earth", which are God's provisions for the sustenance of human existence. In a word, the care of nature is synonymous to the love and care of humankind.
The mission of the Church for the Salvation of Souls is always the main task of every Christian. The planet is the only home for humanity. It is incumbent upon Us especially the Christians to take care the common home as steward of the creation. Fortunately, the Vicar of Christ, the Pope sees this unfortunate and ongoing destruction of our Common Home. Let Us therefore support this lamentation for the preservation and protection of our Common Home.
You're getting things backward. The planet was made for man, and yes, we are stewards of it. But 'saving the planet' is not the mission of the Church. If Christians behave as Christians, we will take care of our little slice of the planet. But putting 'care of the planet' first as though 'the planet' will save us is paganism or animism or something. The planet was made for us; we were not made for the planet. God told the first humans to be fruitful and multiply and FILL the earth. He also made us creative and able to use the planet and invent new things. And God did NOT make a planet that we could possibly destroy or make inhospitable for human life. God knew when he made it EXACTLY the creativity and use that man would exercise on the planet; God new EXACTLY how 'full' he wanted the planet to be of people; God made a planet that can support billions of people and he made us creative enough to feed everyone AND he made a planet that can withstand us using the planet for our home.
Acting like it's possible to take the planet God made to support billions of people for potentially billions of years is so fragile that we can just break it like an egg is silly and insulting to God. The planet can handle anything we can throw at it - whether we are being wise stewards or idiots or exploiters: GOD KNOWS the full extent of what we can do to the planet, and he's not going to make a planet that we can 'destroy' no matter what we do to it. Yes, we are to be stewards; but NO, those who harm the planet will not 'destroy' it for us all.
Only a Pachamama pope who worships nature instead of the Creator would put the 'environment' as the mission of the Church, instead of the eternal souls of each person on the planet.
As you can see from my previous entries, I think the Pope has not addressed the important issues. This will need to wait for a future Pope. God saw all that he had made and found it ... go forth multiply
28#And God blessed them. And God said to them, s “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing.
The problem is that the burden of the global warming will likely fall on the most vulnerable. It seems that humankind has migrated due to climate concerns its entire history. The problem today is that the arbitrary lines of modern city/states limit that migration. As a global community we must make sure that those impacted are cared for. A final thought, some models show that if it occurs the balance of things will shift and may benefit areas that are now considered the "third world." This brings to mind some things that the prophets have said. Has anyone considered that climate change may be the means whereby God effects this prophetic change?
2:17 2:17 bishop barron also stated in the USA women laity fill 90% of churchs administration and management etc
aspects of
The Papalotry a new word I learned seems more concerned in promoting the 'doctrine' of WEALTHY Globalists than obedience to the Incarnate WORD
"Someone's subjective experience?" How can a person's experience be other than subjective?
I missed the sentence, but to me it's obvious. I have my subjective experience; you have your subjective experience; someone else has HIS subjective experience. Thus we can say 'someone's subjective experience' or 'anyone's subjective experience' or even 'no one's subjective experience.'
I listen to Pope Francis a lot,and I think he lives the teachings of Christ himself setting a good example. I also think creation is such a beautiful gift from God, and not caring for it is like rejecting His present to us. Human ruination of it is mostly due to greed for money. +
Yeah, because refusing to listen to fellow Bishops when they question his diktats is setting a good example. Cancelling Bishops who say anything he disagrees with is setting a good example. Accusing faithful families who are open to life of reproducing like rabbits is 'setting a good example.' Accusing faithful Catholics who deeply love the Mass and are on fire for their Catholic faith of being dissident elements in the Church who must be denied the Latin Mass is setting a good example. Gutting the John Paul II institute on marriage and the family and fulling it with pro-abortion advocates and non-Catholics who openly teach against Catholic teaching on life and marriage and sexuality is 'setting a good example.' The man is a train-wreck. He is so depressing in the way he is harming and confusing and HURTING faithful Catholics, as well as doing NOTHING to draw public sinners to repentance (instead encouraging blessing their sin) is likely to lead Francis to be the one person in the hell he does not believe exists (an empty hell is no hell at all - moronic to 'hope' it's empty; that simply means not to believe it even exists!). All I can do is delicately and tactfully try to teach the faith and NOT openly say that the pope is a BAD POPE when I'm teaching converts who cannot understand why Francis says things that are contrary to the Catechism or the Gospel or the mission of the Church; things that make their conversion and pursuit of a moral life seem pointless (if you can just be a sodomite and be blessed, and hell is empty, why should ANYBODY become Catholic?). And I can pray that Francis himself repents and believes the Gospel and doesn't end up in hell, because Jesus does not deserve a Judas Pope; Jesus did not die on the Cross so the successor of Peter and make His sacrifice irrelevant, and make the sin of sodomy acceptable and the 'sin' of pollution worse than a sin that sends souls to hell.
Why were non-catholics permitted/invited to participate in the synod.??????????????????????? !!!!!!!!
The same reason why non Catholics were allowed to participate in the Vatican 2 council. Think through this carefully 👀
Perhaps to fulfill Jesus's desire 'that we all be one' and the Church is the vehicle for the unity of mankind.
8:17 @@donrobertoni
@@donnaivy9506 No, the Church is supposed to convert the world, not ask the world to come in and tell us how to conform to it. You've got it backward. We are not supposed to 'all be one' with non-believers. We aren't even supposed to marry non-believers (2 Corinthians 6:14). We are supposed to convert the world to Christ, not ask non-Christians how we can be one with non-Christianity.
Evangelii Gaudium if you like the first papal document . ~Well it was almost certainly penned by Benedict, but not completed and then heavil edited by Francis.
The "listening" Jesus insisted on, Paul affirmed with the words "Do not absent yourselves from the Assembly”, what would occur directly following Eucharistic Celebration, no separation, where every Parish member was eucharistically purified to speak and listen to one another authentically. That Speaking & Listening as a Parish was cancelled by the clerical class many hundreds of years ago, and why we no longer have a Royal Priesthood consisting of Assembly Life, Mystagogy & Spiritual Direction at every Parish, the triadic ground preparing each one of us to embrace our missionary identity, out true personhood, and why Pope Francis stands alone in fighting to restore this Royal Priesthood, for his deepest desire in all this is to restore all of us to our missionary lives that begins with the restoration of Assembly Life, Mystagogy & Spiritual Direction, what presently doesn’t exist at any Parish. It's that dire. And it's rare to find anyone who hears what Pope Francis is saying, not able to see this singular mission Pope Francis has embraced, what often gets lost in interviews, especially when the interviewer has an ideological agenda preventing him from listening to the pope, yet another listening problem.
Where do you get this language of 'assembly life'? The assembly is the MASS. Last I heard, that's available at every parish. Mystagogy is how to live the faith - again, available in your parish school, the teaching from the pulpit, and any number of other ways that the faith is passed on in a given parish (I'm an adult catechist in my diocese - for English-speakers in my diocese in Poland, and I'm teaching ALL the time: Catholics who need their sacraments of initiation, non-Catholics who wish to convert; couples preparing for marriage; written materials for distribution - free - to the faithful. Teaching never ends; I sometimes have lessons seven days a week.). Spiritual direction happens in the confessional.
Mass, catechesis, the sacrament of Confession - assembly life, mystagogy, spiritual direction.
It's all there. Only if your priest has permanently closed down the Mass, denies people confession and has NO catechesis for ANYONE in the parish can you deny that these things exist.
As for supporting the priesthood... I work daily with priests, have worked with more than 15 priests in 17 years and count priests among my closest friends, and I don't know a single priest who considers Pope Francis an asset to helping him or encouraging him or making his job of passing on the faith easier. On the contrary, they find so much confusion and misdirection being brought to them by people who listen to Francis, that they feel they are constantly in a bind, trying to tell people to respect the Holy Father, but... here's real Catholic teaching.
Just two days ago I spent the afternoon with a priest who has been a missionary in charge of the Catholics in an entire country, is a theologian, parish priest, lived and worked in Poland, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, the US, UK, Rome, traveled on a Vatican passport for about 15 years... the man knows the Church in many places and is in daily contact with ordinary Catholics at Mass and in the confessional. A large part of our conversation was about the challenges he faces in the confessional and parish from people who tell him wacky stuff that is contrary to the Gospel, with the explanation that 'Pope Francis said.' I have the delicate task of teaching the faith and how to live it to people who come from Muslim, Protestant, pagan (I mean worshipping idols as their cultural religion), and unchurched backgrounds while answering their confusion when they send me links of the latest thing Pope Francis said is OK or true or his 'personal belief' that goes right against what I taught them. Francis is certainly not making MY life easier as a catechist and occasional spiritual advisor to these people trying to learn what the Church teaches and how to apply it to their lives. (I spend up to two years in catechesis, because the American format of six months of 'drive-thru' RCIA has a failure rate of 35-45% of people who 'convert' leaving the Church within two years, and because I have a professional background in training teachers, and I know that 6 months of one-size-fits-all classes is absolutely not adequate to the task of forming converts).
Francis is not helping anybody to understand and live the faith; he's sowing confusion and making our lives harder in the priesthood and in teaching the faith. If Francis is so wonderful, why have we not seen a surge of converts coming to the Church - REPENTING and believing the Gospel and changing their lives - saying, 'I'm here because Francis made Catholicism seem so true, good, and beautiful?' I only hear the opposite: I'm here even though Francis is confusing and says things that make it harder for me to understand what the Church teaches. I've been at this for 17 years, and I've met MANY people who said that it was John Paul II who led them to the Catholic Church; and I've met people who found the teaching of Pope Benedict beautiful and compelling. I have not met a single person who has said that Francis has attracted them to the Faith, only people who have said that he confuses them or pains them or makes them feel marginalized and excluded BECAUSE of their desire to live the faith.
@Hey In the beginning of the Church Assembly WAS the Mass as you state, but unlike today, an essential/fundamental part of that Mass, that Assembling, was to engage in open-discernment, including ALL parishioners, each one a unique member of the Body of Christ who would at some moment during that discernment offer a profound insight or intuition that broadened the connecting links of discernment-understanding by being open to every member of Christ’s Body, the richness of that form of discernment replaced by a universal clerical decision that lay parish members would no longer be allowed to be part of that discernment process, that Mass would end after gospel readings and the sharing of bread, the laity then sent home to their isolation from one another, which was the death of the Royal Priesthood, often referred to down through the ages as Chistian Brotherhood.
And this was no doubt saintly Pope Benedict XVI’s most sorrowful lament, what he revealed in his 1961 book, The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood-that the clerical class hundreds of years ago decided to sever laity from every local church’s discernment process, the laity no longer guaranteed a voice, that clerics would now do all the discerning.
This Royal Priesthood, this Christian Brotherhood, is what Pope Francis is trying to restore, and getting resistance from every angle of the clerical class dead set on retaining the clerical exclusivity regarding the Church's discernment process. Francis seeks to restore the Mass to its original meaning that includes restoring lay persons to the discernment process at every parish.
And all one has to do to realize how important it is for Assembly Life to exist at every Parish is to imagine for a minute what it would have been like if Assembly Life had been operative at every Parish in Catholic Christendom as it was in the beginning of the Church, where lay Catholic parents were able to voice at those Assemblies what had been done to their children by clerics (antiChrists-in-motion) who succumbed to demonically-driven desires to sexually molest their children.
With lay involvement in the discerning process, no way would those clerics have been let off the hook with the full (universal) backing of their clerical brothers, forking up megabucks for that purpose, and to hell with lay parents and their children-vast sums of money being surreptitiously spent on lawyers and "treatment" for these clerics, the "treatment" becoming a solid clerical justification (what no lay parishioner would ever agree to) to send these priests out to molest more children at other Archdioceses far into old age, as has become obvious.
Even today in my Archdiocese we were lied to by our pastors that the Archdiocese needed 100 million dollars for clerics retiring, telling us parishioners it would be horribly uncharitable for us not to provide that money for these clerics who dedicated their entire lives to being there for us laity. Actually, it was a half-truth. For those pastors knew what actually happened was the retirement fund that already existed was used to pay off lawyers and settlement agreements. Then, to manipulate us parishioners with guilt, lied to us that the funds for retirement simply were never there.
In other words, the sinister, ever-lying clerical camaraderie that greenlighted the widespread sexual molestation of children, and kept it in motion for at least a half century, is still fully operative. And it will not become inoperative until Assembly Life is restored to every Parish in Catholic Christendom, which has been Pope Francis' singular mission as our Holy Father-why we must pray for him, for the clerical resistance to his mission is close to universal for all practical considerations.
The clerical class remains trapped inside its debilitating clerical camaraderie that can only be dismantled with a restoration of Assembly Life at every Parish.
This outcome is just the full fruition of Vatican 2 and the Modernist's control of the Catholic Church. We won't begin to fix these problems until we place V2 in context of entire Church tradition, and restore the proper worship of God in the Liturgy. Yes, that means returning to the TLM.
Thought the listening was to the Spirit
During my Catholic school years in the 1940’s and 50’s, I, along with my Catholic schoolmates, went to Confession almost every Saturday to avoid the pains of hell (explicitly stated in the Act of Contrition) and to reduce our suffering in Purgatory. Based on Catholic teaching taught by nuns, brothers and priests and not CCD teachers, the very best outcome for a baptized Catholic would be to die before reaching “the age of reason” unequivocally defined in the pre-1992 Catechism as age 7. That kid would go straight to Heaven with no detour to the horrible suffering in Purgatory. But if a pubescent kid willfully retains a sexual thought and dies in an accident before going to Confession, that kid goes straight to hell! Purgatory was a frightening destination for almost everyone who was not destined to hell.
Every Catholic kid learned about Perfect Contrition and Imperfect Contrition and knew that almost ALL confessions were imperfect. Perfect contrition required sorrow solely based on having offended God. Death immediately following a perfect Confession resulted in going straight to Heaven. However, if the penitent's motivation for Confession included any degree of fear of punishment, the Confession was valid but imperfect. So even though a Catholic child made a valid Confession, the descriptions of suffering by fire was so heavily emphasized throughout all those school years, that it was almost impossible not to have a least some fear as motivation to go to Confession. Thus virtually all Confessions were imperfect and suffering in the fire of Purgatory was mandatory for the remission of all confessed sins, mortal and venial. We all believed we were destined to burn for some unknown amount of time in Purgatory, so many sought the indulgences printed on various pages of our Sunday Missals. They were printed in red at the bottom of the page, explaining what had to be done (say so many rosaries, participate in a novena, pray the Stations of the Cross, etc.). Included was the number of days deducted from your time in Purgatory.
Teaching children to live in fear was and is, abject, psychological child abuse.
to F84..., particularly includes groomed by diseased familyist family members' occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, sexual abuse by roman catholic church role group personnel. The offenders, particularly these groomers and including those covering up, by giving this "scandal ... may even draw his [victim] brother into spiritual death." (CCC, 2284).
I'm wondering if you still consider yourself Catholic and receive the Sacraments.
I stopped going to Mass around 1971. I finally recognized that Catholicism depended upon fear, guilt and shame to keep the pews and coffers full. Nonetheless, I know many Catholics who are motivated by the highest morals as expressed by Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew.
to F84Thunderjet, This is what "Catholicism" in groomed error purported presumed to be as an identity until Pope Francis in his particular circumstances on 17 June 2021 of his consecrated celibate marriage:
(a) authorised to do ensuring its procreation role gift charity donations in the Vatican state case of their alleged embezzlements by Cardinal Becciu and nine other citizens/employees,
(b) simultaneously authorised as inseparable and qualitatively equal with this ensuring to be insured its need of union in the Italian Parliament case of the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill as an unacceptable risk of fraud.
These simultaneous authorisations of to do and to be were on the reference point of Mary keeping the inseparability and qualitative equality of her consecrated marriages, celibate at Lk1:38 and male female at Mt1:24.
"Catholicism" was a groomed procreation gift role to in error purport to presume been an identity in need of union by familyist family members in their diseased identities falsely purporting inversion of gift and need, of process gift and progress need, of procreation gift and union need with a non-economic false groomed status inducement of purported presumed "higher vocation" (Pope St John Paul 2's Council for the Family "Guidelines", TTMHS, 1995, 35) of these consecrated celibate marriages vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriages vowed to God.
This grooming was for economic advantage of the groomers' families by tax-exemption embezzlements and lower insurance cost by fraud.
Numero uno meditare il vangelo. Numero 2 orizzontale… praticare.
we are a democratic people; God pleases us, or we choose another.
No big deal
I feel as though you are both missing the point here. My understanding of the synodal process is that listening goes both ways. The church listens to its people but that the people must also listen to the church, through whom the Holy Spirit speaks. All voices need to be heard & though dogma on serious issues cannot change we may spread more understanding that God’s love is unconditional, which may help some feel more understood & realise they are responsible for adapting their lifestyles rather than dogma being changed to suit them.
There is so much misunderstanding within the Catholic people that I feel this process will draw some, probably not all, but hopefully a few, back to understanding the theology that underpins Catholic teaching.
As far as the planet is concerned, I think Pope Francis is correct to cry out to the world that human beings are destroying God’s creation. God is to be found in nature, unmistakably, if we only look for Him. Look at the spirituality & teachings of Bonaventure & Francis of Assisi. We have caused the extinction of 70% of the wildlife on our planet in just 50 years & we are choking our seas & land with poisonous chemicals & plastics. I feel angry that you seemed, to my mind, to minimise this sacrilege, as though God doesn’t care that we dishonour his work as long as we preach the Gospel everywhere. I would have thought that part of our teachings absolutely must contain stewardship of God’s gifts to us.
Finally, our Pope made it clear where his concerns may lie from the beginning when he took the name Francis. There are many ways to evangelise & I for one would be very disappointed if he said nothing about the way we are treating our home.
Of course bringing people to Jesus is our primary task but not at the exclusion of everything else & when such a huge injustice is happening in our world I applaud our Pope for speaking out.
I work with Franciscans - have for 17 years. In fact, one of my closest friends is a Franciscan who recently published the most up-to-date and correct translations of St Francis's writings and wrote his PhD (which I rendered into English) on St Bonaventure. And I don't know a SINGLE Franciscan who says that Pope Francis has anything like the spirit of St Francis. Indeed, the one who wrote the scholarly translation of Francis's writings and his PhD on Bonaventure just had lunch with me last week, and talked about how HARD it is to do his job in the confessional and in conversations with ordinary Catholics because of the nonsense and confusion they bring him because of listening to Pope Francis and then questioning Catholic teaching they have heard and followed all their lives. That Franciscan expert on St Francis and Bonaventure BY NO MEANS thinks that Pope Francis has ANYTHING like a Franciscan spirituality or charism - quite the opposite. Francis and Bonaventure were NOT environmentalists!
People think St Francis was some kind of hippie going around preaching to birds, petting bunnies and wanting to save the planet. HE WAS NOT that cartoon stereotype. Pope Francis took the NAME Francis, but he is totally a Jesuit - and not the good kind of Jesuit, either. He has nothing in common with St Francis; he took that name as a PR gesture to a world that thinks St Francis was some kind of ecologist when St Francis was NOT at all concerned primarily or even strongly or AT ALL with 'saving the planet.' First distort who St Francis was and his mission, then take his name and pretend that you're being like Francis, so people who have no clue what Francis actually wrote and taught and devoted his life to will think, 'Oh, Pope Francis is all warm and cuddly and environmental like St Francis, and so poor and meek' - while the heads of ANY of his 'brother' bishops who dares to be 'synodal' and speak up and disagree with the Pope's Diktats sees his head roll. Francis has simply 'fired' brother bishops giving them not only no reason, but no future, no other assignment, no job, no role in their diocese. Sent them off to no-man's-land because they dared to speak up and disagree with some totalitarian dictum of Pope Francis.
I was in a Franciscan friary with Franciscans when Pope Francis was elected, and I remember their feeling of excitement that he had taken the name of Francis. But within three days a Franciscan who spent much of his life in the order as a missionary in South America had taken Francis's measure and said he had met the type in South America before. In English, I guess his characterization would be something like a 'Rah-rah bishop' the kind who draws a lot of attention to himself and is eager to get people to praise him and tell him how holy he is, but is a wolf in sheep's clothing, not concerned with the good of his priests or of the flock but only of his reputation and being SEEN to be 'of the people' and 'holy' and 'humble' and reported as such in the media. All PR, and no substance, no help to anybody. The kind of person who cultivates the cult of his own personality so well that people believe his PR tactics, and he gets promoted up the ranks. And since then, of all the Franciscans I know, work with and count as friends, NONE claims Pope Francis as 'after the heart' of their founder; quite the contrary.
Bad, bad man. His soul is seriously in danger because of his narcissism and autocratic power-mongering tactics that seek and destroy anyone who questions anything he says. And he says and does plenty of STUPID stuff. Where is the voice of the Catholics who love the Latin Mass in all this 'synodality"? Silenced. Sodomite Masses - yes; faithful Catholics who love the Church and the Traditional Mass - stamp them out and scatter their communities.
Have you noticed how seldom Francis says the name Jesus?
These are just my thoughts, but I think the great struggle in the Church today is to find the balance between the soul and the body. It is a struggle, a battle, and maybe our Cross, as a people and Church. Today, we know that the soul and the body are one and cannot be separated until death. The soul will live for eternity but the body is temporal and destined for transformation. Jesus did not come to just save souls, he came to save the world, to save persons, people. God created matter, the body, and the world and said it was good. But the difference between the body today, because of sin and idolatry, is the difference between a caterpillar and a butterfly. The body is made for sacrifice and the soul is made for praise and union with God, but they cannot be separated until death. Whatever the soul does affects the body and whatever the body does affects the soul. Our enemies are Gnosticism and idolatry, or liberalism. Our present body has to be sacrificed in subjection to the soul so that the new body can take shape. Now I am probably going to far into speculation. But we have to constantly fight against Gnosticism and idolatry, without denying the need and good of both the body and soul, even if the body must be subject to the soul and love calls it to sacrifice. We need to put on the mind of Christ, and experience a personal relationship with Jesus, to be yoked to him, through our body, mind, and spirit. This is the Mission of the Church.
I think, the correct Catholic position would emphasise development. God asked as to share in shaping creation. I think God wants to see what we can make of this world that he has given to us. Too many environmentalists see the goal as going back to a garden untended.
I don't see the original garden untended. Nor would I see a thoughtful environmentalist as letting everything go untended. There needs to be intervention and care. I see this as a natural extension of Christ's care , love of others, respect for the gift given us and which sustains our physical needs
Well, alergies is a classic case of one's subjective experience trumping forever the doctrines of what is good verses evil: for me: to eat anything I'm allergic to: that would be basically the same mortal sin (presuming knowledge that it contains the poisons to me in it) as poisoning myself: a direct deliberate violation of the 5th Commandment- and that one according to Christ is the 'central big one', as it summarizes the essence of His standards... and that especially covers if the church in its dogmas would require me to injest the same in regard to teachings; should any teaching at all teach me evil.
Hence as one is positively forbidden to filter out poisons to oneself in teaching, we're actively prohibited from allowing *any* teachings of the church's doctrines and dogmas into ourselves, due to even *one* part of the analogy of the faith teaching even *one* man to hate God.
Why and what has happened in the man's life to lead to that is irrelevant, what's to be judged is the dogmatic teachings according to evidence against them by the particulars, as per logic: for in logic: the particular *always* beats out the universal. Since therefore the church's teachings are the most universal: they must yield to anything contrary to them, as they are by definition the weakest of all.
Neither Bishop Barron nor Fr Christino keep unity in uncertainty of their belief of the inseparability and qualitative equality of justice gift and mercy need.
Pot fi 1000 de sinoade, n o sa L înțelegi pe Dumnezeu decât în locul Lui.
Listening has ecclesial imperative. I find that Pope Francis is bringing the attention of the hierarchy to its shortcomings toward the lay faithful. Surely unintentionally, the hierarchy seems fixated on power and authority that may no longer be faithful to Christ's Authority, the very source and paradigm of the stewardship of the clergy. Thus, listening should get to the very dysfunctionality of the lay faithful, which could be an experience of being excluded, not affirmed as Christ desires to affirm them, marginalized, etc. Many in the hierarchy seem to be fixated in the pleasure and honor of reverence and obedience. When I read the documents of Pope Francis, I find them as more addressed to the hierarchy rather than to the lay faithful or to the world. Personally, from my end, many, but not all among the clergy, are elitist. The pastors seem to have become more materialistic and egotistic. They are not so sympathetic to the cries of the poor and the sinners.
Listening to NO Catholic conversations are heartbreaking…VCII FAILURES and Progressive movements with in the Church were for told by St Pius X one hundred years ago. When the leadership finally comes to terms with “this ain’t working” and sucks it up and returns to 2000 years of tradition & teaching, we will see no more need to worry about crisis’, hmmmm chew on it. ✝️
Barron said Jesus is the privilege way. No he is the way the truth and the life period.
That's all well and good... but what if the Lord tells someone to go out and tell others the truths of the Gospel, and the truths of the Catholic Church? Shall he remain quiet? I think Fr. Cristino should qualify his statements to say that a person should not go tell others things, UNLESS that is specifically what God has instructed. So, once again, listen to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can not only tell you what to think and do, but also what to say, who to say it to, and when to say it.
So all those Protestant denominations, reading their Bibles and guided by the Holy Spirit to preach hundreds if not thousands of personal interpretations that all disagree with one another - they are on the right track?
It is very sad to see that the church today is 90% HORIZONTAL & perhaps 10% VERTICAL. So far from observation the Priests from the Divine Mercy Centres who originated from Kerela, India ( The Vincentian Fathers ) are more focused on ADORATIONS, SCRIPTURE READINGS & always PROCLAIMING THE WORD OF GOD, CONFESSIONS & PRAISE & WORSHIP. This is very VERTICAL. We are NOTHING without GOD.
Is Bishop Barron tending towards schism?
The problem is the synod has a liberal new age agenda in place, so the dialogue is worthless. The result has already been predetermined which is a destruction of the Deposit of Faith.
Reality based on Statistics is showing that the Church hierarchy is not helping in propagating the Faith. Too much effort in pleasing earthly powers instead of proclaiming God’s word.
Bishop Barron raises some very good points but this video disingenuously chooses to omit his praise of other elements of the Synodality Initiatives that conflict with the originator's views.
More fundamentally, many US Catholics responding here need to decide. Do they trust in the Holy Father and the Magisterium or do they think genuinely believe they know better?
It's also interesting to note the amplification given by social media to marginal and often extreme US 'traditionalist' perspectives. Let's not forget that only 17% of US 'Catholics' regularly attend mass, putting them in 29th position in the world behind countries like Italy, Brazil, the Czech Republic and even here in the UK (Source: World Values Survey Wave 7: 2017-2022, CARA Data (U.S. estimate)). Perhaps they should give more thought to increasing inclusivity and upping mass attendance figures in their own country and less time fighting their culture wars and criticising The Church.
Follow St John Paul 11 example. He took the young on trips but ALWAYS Mass and instruction was there
Take notice
This man has not integrated the vertical and the horizontal. God is in all things. We love God by loving our neighbor. All the earth is the Lord’s is it not? Creation is good! We are not Platonists yearning for a disembodied heaven! That is heresy. The proclamation of the Gospel is that Jesus is that He is Lord on earth as it is in heaven.
Synod needs the Pope approval which will never get!
The Church has split, the Church of Christ and church of Francis! Choose.
I go with Christ and Francis, His vicar.
Then gate of hell is waiting for you!
Francis rejected the title, literally, of "vicar."
That would be insult to God! iI Francis took the tile Vicar.
Why is American Catholicism so much more concerned with this overt evangelising than Catholicism in other parts of the world?
Two other points, firstly, souls who do not feel welcome or listened to are not going to hear our message. We need to encourage them to come to us & tell us their stories do they can truly feel our God’s compassion through us. Then they may be more open to our teaching.
Secondly, you made the point yourselves that hungry souls cannot listen & climate change is affecting the poorest, most marginalised people in the world. Their crops are failing & their animals are dying & you want to ignore that & teach them the Gospel first, before attaching the powerful corporations who are raping the planet & walking all over the human rights of millions, causing death & destruction? Do your research about what is really happening.
Do not forget that God told Adam and Eve to be his stewards for the creation. Eden was not a lazy place. We should still be responsible for the stewardship of all the creation.
Alas, Bishop Barron continues to be a mixed bag who is ultimately unreliable in many respects. Note the following he also wrote involving his observations on the Synod...and try to not throw up...and please do not try to spin it to make it less troubling than it actually is:
"The summary statement very accurately expresses the fact that the overwhelming concern of the synod members was to listen to the voices of those who have, for a variety of reasons, felt marginalized from the life of the Church. ... Women, the laity in general, the LGBT community, those with disabilities, young people, men and women of color, etc. have felt unappreciated and, most importantly, excluded from the tables where decisions are taken that affect the whole life of the Church. I can assure everyone that their demand to be heard was heard, loud and clear at the synod. And I’m glad it was. ...Therefore, if there are armies of Catholics who feel excluded or condescended to, that’s a major pastoral problem that must be addressed with humility and honesty. And I can say, as someone who has been a full-time ecclesiastical administrator for the past twelve years, I am delighted to receive the counsel of laity in regard to practically all aspects of my work. Expanding the number and diversity of those who might aid the bishops in their governance of the Church is all to the good, and bravo to the synod for exploring this possibility." (“My Experience of the Synod” by Bishop Barron. Nov. 21, 2023)
Note how Bishop Barron enthusiastically accepts the false narrative of the need to “listen” to many supposedly oppressed “marginalized” groups within the Church. This narrative is just another manifestation of left wing, Marxist-type propaganda rubbish that is being used by leaders of the Synod to promote its agenda of destroying the traditional hierarchical Church established by our Lord. Because of this, many wrong prescriptions will be provided by Bishop Barron and others to “cure” non-existent problems and thereby bring about greater problems and harm to the Church based on numerous falsehoods accepted as truth.
‘Try not to throw up’? Why would you? Everyone needs to be listened to - with love. Jesus is a God of Love. I think that we at the church is wanting to be more welcoming, which is good. This does not mean we change the fundamental teachings.
@@12345patbet Beyond your understanding. Good luck.
This man has reduced Jesus’ Gospel to a Platonic heresy and a tool of unrestrained capitalism.
Saving souls is NOT the mission of the Church. Christ already saved all souls. Our job is to be His Body on East as it is in heaven and to be that sign, that sacrament of Jesus in the world because He so loved the world! They’re talking about this planet like it’s garbage and who cares about helping it to support life. Your confusion over why Francis is talking about the environment so much betrays your service to that golden idol of capitalism. It’s the powers and principalities, not evangelism.
Insult the Holy Father. His comments on climate change are so misguided. As thousands walk away while Francis is pope he should be addressing that.
Sometimes you have to throw out all of revelation since it leads any *one* man away from goodness as He, namely Christ, describes goodness- and since that has happened even *once* in all of the history of existence: throw out all of it and replace it with *nothing*.