Hot Rodding The Slant Six - Overcoming Design Flaws
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- We dig into the Slant's lower end to correct severe windage problems and in the process discover the engine's Achilles Heel
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I don’t think there is a better way of explaining the short comings of the factory sump. It was so worth filling the back of your van with water!
Since I was a kid...listening (and now talking about it myself) to folks talk about the internals and functionality of an engine...is pure excitement for me. I’m never surprised how many people don’t know how (or care) how the engine that moves them works. This shit is pure mechanical science. Awesome video folks!
Uncle Tony: The mad scientist of MOPAR! 😀
What UT is saying can be applied to most if not all makes of engines
This is definitely my favorite channel. I like that you actually go through and tell us why and how you're doing everything and not just jumping to a finished product
The journey is its own reward, right?
@@UncleTonysGarage for sure
@@UncleTonysGarage that comment right there is why i love this channel. Its all about the journey!
@@UncleTonysGarage Why do you paint the inside of the block, as the oil might pick up some of the paint on its journey thru the oil pump ???
I looked up slant six's on UA-cam & .I've been watching UTG Since.
Awesome channel thank you for giving me some great ideas to bring back something.
I miss this engine being it was my 1st major project with my dad outside our house.. Cylinder Head Needed a Valves job.
If my dad was alive he would understand as well what I've learned & he probably would apologize to me for blowing up a few. 👍🏼💪🏼🤣
💥 BADA BING BADA BOOM 💥.
I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE 🙌
Nj'sJfJr 👍🏼💪🏼❤️🇺🇸
Love how much thought and engineering you put into this.
You saved me from the lame video I was watching! Thanks Tony!
Dude! This is some of your best content in a while. Packed with old school rodding tips and tricks! Love the "think like oil" bent.
SOLID👍
Over here in oz we fixed all the problems with the slant 6 we scraped the slant 6 and put a whole new straight 6 engin in the late 60's the hemi 215ci,245ci,265ci ranging from 140hp in the 215ci up to over 300hp in the top of the line 265ci
Grumpy Jenkins built a deep sump pan for the first gen Chevy II Super Stock with a tunnel for the tie rod. Deepen the sump and extend it all the way to the back. Don't know if he used a one way trap door or not, but it apparently worked pretty well.
Good presentation, in the beginning Uncle Tone! I can’t stress enough to people, not to over fill their oil.
Very interesting.Love the analysis of the slants strengths and weaknesses. I've never seen anyone paint the inside of an engine.
R u kidding? Very common technique been around for at least 50+ years.
16 minutes learning from from Uncle Tony is worth more than I can.... just wow and thanks Uncle Tony.
What I learned from this video is if I'm on a cruise ship that has swimming pools on the stern and UT is at the helm do not go in the pools! Otherwise, you'll end up as shark grub. 👍😜
I do so very much love this channel. No one these days teaches this kind of stuff, and in such simple terms. You, and gentlemen like you, are national treasures :)
Monday therapy with Tony the engine guru! Thank you for struggling through your vocal challenges, and delivering excellent content. You’re the tops!
You just exposed me to a lot of stuff that most people never even begin to think about. We just don't know how much we don't know, until somebody like you opens up our minds to these hidden, but very real dimensions. Thank you sensei Tony.
I absolutely loved the oil pan/water/acceleration demonstration! It also answered a question I've pondered off and on for almost 25yrs. Back in 96 my gf's first car was a 72 Scamp, with a bone stock leaning tower of power. One day I get a call from the side of the highway and I arrive to find the number six rod had escaped it's nice warm home. I totally figured that she ran it low on oil, which she knew how to check and that may have lead me to be a tad harsh with her for a minute. Anyhow, I found a good used 225, put it in and all was well. Fast forward a few yrs and I get an eerily familiar call, but this time she's an hr away, half way up Snoqualmie pass. I arrive this time (pretty pissed) to find... the number six rod poking it's ugly head out once again! This time it ended in me buying her a different daily driver and a way over budget 318/727/8 3/4 build which turned out awesome. It always kind of bugged me though, why it was the number six rod both times.
Working at Chrysler Trenton Engine in the 6 cyl head line , I saw thousands of these blocks going by behind my machining line.
That would have been interesting. Maybe you uave some good engineering issues/stories to share from testing? Things you may have heard about.
@@whatyoumakeofit6635 I was only a machine operator. The lines were laid out so raw castings were loaded on a conveyor at one end and finished parts came out the other. These fed assembly lines and finally ended at the motor line where engines were completed and started for the first time. We had no input for engineering or testing.
It's possible that you and I may have met before. I worked for Kaufmann construction and worked on many re tooling projects in your plant. I was trying to remember the exact year the parts production left the Trenton plant, if my memory serves it was early to mid 1979. It may have been later in the early 80's.
@@jerkyturkey007 I was there 68-71.
@@garycb8592 okay, so that was before I was there. I know they offshored the assembly for a few years to Mexico, but they kept the casting in the Indiana foundry and the crankshaft and camshaft machining in Trenton right up until they sold the engine to China lock, stock & barrel. They had a bunch of Chinese guys running around constantly under our feet, they made sure EVERYTHING was put into the shipping containers, including the wires in the conduit and the bolts that held the machines in place, lol we joked among ourselves about would they make us scrape the grease off the foundations and ship it, lol.
this is just so badass, every one of these videos make me glad I'm taking my time getting this Dart together. Even if i don't modify everything, understanding the beast is priceless. thanks for all the help guys.
Hey. I've been a mopar fanatic since my 63 dart /6. 50 years later I still have my 69 RR. 64 Fury couple A body's etc. All with bb.
Your explanation of the /6 was absolutely amazing as it all makes perfect sense "now" that I'm open to considering anything other than a bb.
Many heartfelt thanks.
Bill
One way flaps in the sump baffle across the rear end of the deep part of the sump will help stop the oil surge and still allow the returning oil to flow. You can do the same at the front end of the deep part of the sump but mirrored so that under heavy braking the oil remains in the main sump.
Watching uncle Tony takes me back to my childhood days of watching my gear head neighbors working on their cars!
Great videos and a great time machine!
#oldschool
I love how you started off with the thought that well the stock design is so garbage for my purposes that I will actually be better off just building a better design from scratch. But then you realize that the true fun of hotrodding and helping others is making the best of the factory parts and all the workarounds. The modern stuff is less fun because you can just buy whatever parts you need for whatever power level you need. Don't change a thing about your video making it's perfect, good audio, in depth explanations.
This was excellent insight Tony ...great to see your creative mind at work .👍
Excellent video in understanding windage tray and scraper principles. This is how you squeeze extra HP with out spending a lot of cash!
I love the way you think things through test your theories you're One of a Kind uncle Tony
your knowledge is amazing! I have been a gear head for 30 years and you point out shit I have never thought of. Thank you.
I (again) sat through two minutes of the most insipid arthritis ads because Tony has the best videos
I watched a Cadillac ad...lol
I didn't get any ads. Not fair
I got Patrick Stewart whining about something.
He's gotta get paid. I usually read the comments until they're over.
I roll with premium.....ads are for suckers
teach professor we are learning from a master mopar wizard
Awesome again 👍 Thanks for pushing through the illness... but take care of yourself and UK!
Once again U.T. you're bringing things to light people don't know.
Much like the 351 Cleveland Ford - it has a terrible oiling system, they're so bad that when you're going to push them hard they need external oil lines to reroute the oiling outside the block.
Most people don't know that and will find out the hard (expensive) way.
Thanks again UT - keep the good stuff coming!
Attention to detail. Hats off to your thoroughness sir.
I love all the nuanced details you are sharing here. Keep it up Uncle Tony!
Definitely an interesting engine build, I've always been curious about slant sixes and I've learned more about them on your channel than anywhere else. Can't wait to hear it run!
Uncle Tony I hope you feel better! I don’t like you being sick, you brighten my day with these videos. All that said I’m happy your still making videos even though you sound miserable. Much love!
I'm back here just trying to sharpen my mind for this slant 6 build. Thanks Uncle T
Great informative video didn't know a lot of that. You have a way of keeping people's interest when explaining something. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that
Thanks Uncle Tony for staying loyal to your captive fans during your cold. That's a class act in my book!
A shot of Bourbon every two minutes for five hours straight will fix ya right up!
I'm rebuilding the 200 inline 6 in my 65 Mustang. It has the same design as the /6 on the oil pan with the middle sump. I don't have room for a windage tray but it can sure use the baffle to prevent sloshing oil to the rear main. After watching another video I find the advice is true that every build has something that never goes right. As I was cleaning it up to weld in the baffle, I noticed a pinhole in the bottom of the pan. Need to replace the pan. Using a wire wheel helps find sketchy parts. I'm glad I caught it now before I installed it and had to drop the pan in the car. While I'm at it I'm getting a new oil pan pickup tube as it had holes forming in the pickup screen. I ported the heads and couldn't believe how much the bowls and casting flash under the seats was so excessive. It already has a crap integral intake with tiny valves but it had a good .060 -.070 more material restricting the flow effectively making the Intake vale 1.6 and the exhaust 1.3. Not going to be burning up the road but I do want it to get out of its own way. Thanks for the advice and a great website to pick up these excellent pointers. For anyone putting headers on a log type intake ford inline its recommended to do something with the siamese 3 and 4 exhaust. The header has a roughly 1 inch by 1 inch opening on the flange. The head has the ridges and non divided rectangular ports that are roughly 1 inch wide by 2 inches tall. The ridges heat the intake right under the carb. There are port dividers that can be welded in but in my experience they break loose and rattle, driving you nuts. I'm putting square tubes in, welded to the header flange and recess cutting into the ports to eliminate that mismatch and transition from the exhaust port to the tubes. I'm hoping it also reduces the heat under the carb on the intake. I may coat the tubes with ceramic coating as that cuts the heat on headers and packing it with fiberglass insulation to cut it further. If it works, I'll make a video to show my fix. Again, Uncle Tony has me thinking outside the box. Love these videos!
Folks that are paying attention to this channel are getting a master class on so many techniques
and theologies on all things car-related - and it's being given free of charge to boot.
There are many in the business of building high HP engines and such out there, of course, and
they usually are well paid for their expertise - but very few individuals walking the planet have
Tony's combined knowledge and experience, coupled with some admittedly radical theories
on applying that knowledge.
That he's willing to share such with anyone gratis is indicative of the man's character.
I for one appreciate the hell out of the effort here.
-Ed on the Ridge
Knowledge is power this is the type of knowledge I'm in search for thank Uncle Tony for the enlightenment
I learn something new from every one of your videos. Thanks.
I can't remember which book I read it in, but according to the book, the original slant 6 design was intended to compare in both output and price point with Chevrolet's venerable 235 Stovebolt six. In 1955, when development began on the slant.... Chevy's 235 still did not have an oil pump and relied on splash lubrication. Since this was intended to be a Plymouth engine, and being cheap was a design point, that's how the Chrysler engineers began the project. Well, by 1957 or 1958 when Chrysler had it's first test mules, Chevrolet had thrown caution to the wind and finally installed an oil pump in their six. Well, that would make the Chrysler engine obsolete before it had even gone into production! Engineers went back to the drawing board and rather than reengineer the entire project from scratch, they came up with the conclusion to simply "ADD ON' the oil passages and pump.
Supposedly, that's why the Slant 6 has an external pump, the main oil galley is visible on the outside of the block and why if you overfill the engine, it will splash lubricate itself. The pressurized oil system was literally an afterthought.
And yet it's shocking that Chrysler NEVER in the almost 30 years of production of the Slant 6; did they ever try to remedy it's faults. Hell, they didn't even get hydraulic lifters until 1980.
So heres the thing about Uncle Tony.
At first when you think he's going to say something crazy, if you're smart and you just wait, it all actually checks out.
You think he's going to come out with some old wive's tale about something technical, but then just give him another half a second and you get the rest and then I'm thinking. Ok keep watching OG UTG knows whats up. Not just about /6 but about mechanics in general.
This guy is good - so far - safe to watch! In a world of misinformation this is among the highest praises one can give.
Love Uncle Tony's way of showing us things👍👍👍👍👍
Uncle Tony thinks like a motor ... its intriguing asf,keep it coming Unk
Please keep the videos this long, UT! Love it great video.
Every thing you said makes perfect logic. Great job !
Interesting stuff, in 45 years of hotrods I never built a slant 6. Tuned and repaired lots of them back in the day. A local shop used to run an altered with a slant 6 that ran 9's back in the old days. Fun to watch them beat big blocks with that thing. I'm looking forward to more videos on this build.
I know old Chevy guys were hot on painting the valley on big and small blocks for a "slicker" surface for quicker oil drain back. On the contrary, the engine shop I worked for would normally talk customers out of it because once oil is flowing, that is a slick as the surface is going to get.
Uncle Tony. Your videos are very informative. If you you ever decided to teach a class, sign me up. With the plethora of knowledge you have and how you break it down for those of us watching, you’re doing great. Keep up the good work! We appreciate it.
super interesting on the oil pan and how the oil rams to the back side on acceleration....you're going above and beyond the engineers of yesteryear.....correcting these issues.
Had a 80 Mirada with a slant 6 ran great never had any problems.glad to see a endepth look at the old slant 6 thanks again.
Great demonstration, really drives your point home.
Uncle Tony, you are giving some real life engine science here, Thanks!
You're crushing it man! Slant is my favorite engine and I learned something new. 🤙
WOOOO EEEEEE Dog my Cat! So, yer sayin' all the times that I seen a blown slant is 'cause them there rods been doin' a belly flopper in "starks pond" to much...? Makin' perfect 'cents now!
bruh
That windage tray and lip idea is shear freaking GENIUS! I'm now looking for a slant 6 car just so I can tear down that leaning tower of power and massage it Uncle Tony style!
Old skool fluid dynamics!! Luv it!
So that explains why you need a torque plate while boring and machining....always wondered about that.
So glad you cut it short last night, saved your voice for today's vid. Another excellent and informative 16 minutes that is much appreciated and critical for those of us building /6.
What about using an epoxy paint on the insides? Fairly inexpensive and readily available. Or even better, if you had the resources....powder coat the inside and outside.
Lots of ways to skin that cat, but the Rustoleum is cheap, simple and works
You can't get this anywhere else, stated so clearly and in such depth., edited with such precision. "We never knew it was so bad"...Lol...it's much worse than you'll ever know. I may have to take a break and recuperate. Come back refreshed and less obsessed.
UTG I can listen to you go on about this for hours. I have a 63 dart GT and as you probably know theres a hump in the firewall where the dizzy would be in a small block. I don't have the heart to butcher it up so slant 6 is my only option. Thanks for the videos.
I was talking with Nick from Nick's garage and I told him I wanted to do a 63 Dart wagon and a 331 or 354 in it. I like to be the guy with the crazy car on the block. I got the idea from his 241 Hemi and thought that my dad would have loved that engine even though it's not a hot rod motor but it's unique. Turns out it's easier to find Jimmy Hoffa. I know my dad had one of the two motors at his uncle's house. I called him and it turns out he had passed away 10 years ago but his son said he still has the 354 and trans still hooked together ever since my dad was in highschool. My dad had to sneak to his uncle's house to work on cars. Plus he has a pit. He said he was saving it for something but didn't know why. Well I guess it turns out it's for me to build a very unique car. It's going to look nice to see that power giant 354 on the valve covers when I open the hood. I'm not going to beat it to death but treat it with respect and try to keep my foot out of the carburator as my dad would say. That was a problem I used to have before my back went out on me. It's amazing how nice you can drive a car when you have to go in it up to your elbows. I need a project to keep sane. Working on cars is my happy place along with shooting in compititions. Anyway I was thinking of having Nick build my engine and transmission. I would want to be there with them to help. I want to be the one wrenching on my engine. That guy Nick sure can build some nice cars and I want my engine to be perfect. I don't want to screw it up basically. My dad is gone and he forgot more than I will ever know. It worked out well I did the welding because I was certified and he did the motors. Well we both did the motors. He would sit back and let me make mistakes and then help me fix them unless it was going to be a catastrophic issue he would let me do it the wrong way so then I would learn from mistakes. He was good line that. He had me started when I was just a little guy in diapers. I remember the Gremlin X that he put a 360 in it. It was a wheelie machine.
You had a cool dad.
@@rcnelson yes I did but my mom was always pissed because he spent too much money on drag racing.
Very nice demonstration Uncle Tony!
Grinding the block smooth will also help prevent cracks.
When you add the windage tray and look to put a baffle to keep the oil from flowing to the back of the pan, put a counterweighted door in it. When you accelerate the door closes and stops the oil from flowing into the back of the pan. Then when your at speed the counterweight opens the door allowing what little oil the got past the door and is coming down from the rear cylinders to flow back into the sump.
And I still like the idea of converting the engine to hydraulic lifters or hydraulic roller lifters. At least look at the possibility. With a hydraulic lifter you feed oil up hollow pushrods up to the rocker arms.
Funny thing is is that that’s the magic of the Channel.
Excellent content! Maybe use a spray bar on the valve train, and then use a crank scraper ?
An elegant solution that any home mechanic can copy for their own projects, love it.
In my younger years I made a windage tray and baffle system out of expanded steel in a 302 Ford, seemed to work okay.
This was a great video, lots of useful information. Thanks for putting this together.
I can't believe Chrysler neglected to put a windage tray in the old slant six. But I suppose the bean counters took over and complained about spending a whole dollar on 12.5 million? engines, so it didn't happen. Starting in 1973 I have owned five different cars with that engine and they all were good runners.
I live in so WI where the winters in the 1970's got terrible cold for weeks at a time in January to mid February. Many times it would be minus 10 in the daytime so after 8 hours those cars sitting in the parking lot were COLD. Lots of newer cars would be grinding away slowly killing the battery but my rusty Duster would start right up and then go around offering jump starts to the other cars. LOL One guy drilled a small hole in his air cleaner and used a rubber plug to fill the hole when it was running. That was where he shot the starter fluid when it was reluctant to fire up. It was a big Pontiac with all the accessories.
I have to say starters and alternators are WAAAY better now than in the 70's. I loved how easy it was to swap a starter or alternator on the old slant six but it was annoying. I went to salvage yard and bought their rebuilts and kept one in the trunk with the right tools. But of course the starters got a work out back then with the frigid temps, carburetors, and we didn't have synthetic oil yet. Today's engines with fuel injection start so much quicker I don't think the starter even gets warm.
My Jeep Liberty still has the factory starter after 16 years of cranking a diesel engine!
I had to replace the alternator at 12 years and about 180,000 miles of use. So engines and their components have greatly improved, plus I now use synthetic oil in everything.
My 1985 Dodge Omni still has he factory starter with 155,000 miles on it.
I am a bit saddened that I sold my last slant six to a guy who really wanted it. It was a 64 two door with bucket seats and a four speed trans. It was pretty quick with the 3.55 rear axle. I had been robbing parts from it to feed my daily driver Duster to the point it was going to be expensive to fix the clutch/pressure plate, exhaust, starter, alternator. A guy saw it and begged for it. The front was banged up bad before I bought it but he wanted the four speed and the bucket seats for a mint 65 station wagon! That would be a one of a kind wagon when it was done. The station wagon Chrysler should have built!
Awesome amount of knowledge and detail.
Loving your work from Australia
Back in 1998 I did a DIY project and rebuilt in 1972 Fiat X1/9
That thing was a go-kart if I pushed it around a corner which was easy to do......the oil pressure light used to come on..... for a good 10 seconds..
And if the fuel tank was below a certain level the motor would also splatter because the Carby was starved of fuel...
Those Harbor Freight blankets don't do well when they get wet lol
🤔Neither do wet floors in a supermarket...😉
Excellent video! Thanks Zio!
many years ago , late 60s. i read a spot in a car mag that talked about Dick Landy putting an oil pan with oil in the pass seat and taking it for a fast ride to see what the oil does on a fast take off.
Just like the demo with the water in the sump, you make.problems and your solutions easy to understand. BTW with "small blocks" are you talking Mopar? I just want to be sure.
Mopar yes..but it applies to any rear pump mounted engine
@@UncleTonysGarage any chance you have a part number or something for this particular windage tray? I took a look around but didn't see any trays with the big cutouts to clear the crank like this one.
Another excellent video Tony. Thanks.
Hey Tony, hope you get well soon. Not just because your cold sounds disgusting, we also love you dear uncle!
Keep up the good work, love the videos!
Great vid, can't believe my 225 in my 71 Demon lasted as long as it did being I was 16 haha, thanks for posting
Feel better Tony!! Thanks for the info!
Tony, an engineer's comments: Cast iron is pliable but it is strong in compression and weak in tension, like concrete. When you are using a mix of solid and rubber mounts on a relatively high stress application, try to arrange it so that the solid side is compressed by the torque reaction moment of the engine, and the rubber side is in tension. I think this is what you did here. This arrangement will reduce the liklihòod of a crack starting in the sections of the block in tension. A simple way to think of it would be that the engine should push on the solid and pull on the rubber under power. This would be true on any engine but I suspect the slant might be more susceptible to cracks than a V8. I think your comments on torsion are exactly right.
Also iffy in fatigue and shock-loading.
I believe that most guys can probably do any modifications you could come up with. Deepening the pan can be done with 2 pans sectioned and welded together
Tony I love how simple you explained the mod to the oil pan and how you showed how oil reacts under Acceleration
I can’t wait for the finished product!😁
Reminding me again why you’re my hero Uncle Tony. Keep this up and I may have to get an old Mopar!
Hey, Tony, have you thought about making a deeper sump like Shelby did for the original gt350? Pretty much a @3" deep box on the bottom for the oil pan, with fins for cooling. Would definitely help keep oil away from the #5 and #6 cylinders! That's in addition to all your planned oil mods, of course.
Another great video uncle l really appreciated your demonstration on how oil travels in the sump pan mate hope that you are starting to feel better regards Anthony from down under
You could run a deep rear sump by welding in a pass-through tube in the back of the sump for the center link of the suspension to move through. The center link doesn't move much, so the tube doesn't need to be very big. Then you could weld in a windage tray from the bottom portion of the tube to the back wall of the pan, this will trap more oil in the rear sump under acceleration because it would act like a rear kick-out.
Thanks Uncle Tony! great video
Thanks for all the knowledge Uncle T!!!!
It takes a very interesting/talented man to get people interested enough to watch videos of 40+ year old mopar slant 6 engines. Love it. Any chance you can do a video or two on the old jimmy 6? With the bara, and the rise of the import inline 6 engines it would be fun to turbo some of the old American engines that weren't seen as performance just a workhorse getting people around in the 60's/70's. Love the videos.
This sort of practical engineering is fascinating. Thanks!
Love your videos uncle tony. So much knowledge
I rebuilt my slant..... drinking.
Put the thermostat in backwards.
Lasted 15000km’s before overheating so bad it stuck the valves.
That included a 7 hour trip
No bs.
(Did drill a 3/16 hole in the thermostat body but....)
Love my slants
I seem to recall that Summit used to sell sump kits to add a deep baffled sump to almost any steel pan. I remember thinking about using it on my Mazda as it lacks aftermarket parts.
As for the cam, could you add oil squirters from somewhere else to directly lube it?
Once again bro you hit it out of the park. I learned about windage trays years ago when I was fucking around Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles. They like to have oil in their pan. And it also explains why I broke that slant 6. And for those of you that say a Mopar slant 6 can't die. You're just not trying hard enough.
Now that's funny the next recommended video is Finnegan's garage. It used to be the other way around.
Hi Uncle Tony, got your theme song....sung to the chorus of the song Convoy......"we got a Uncle Tony, I got a broken down car, a plate of 30 tater tots,slid right under the car, we got a Uncle Tony, now it's called a Mopar"
U.T. this was one of the most enjoyable and interesting video Ive seen concerning engine lube details. Thanks man you really knocked this vid out the damn park. Good luck up there
When I briefly worked at Briggs & Stratton, running Dyno tests and taking videos of things while under load you would not believe how far things move due to vibration. That was a fun job
You work in murray Kentucky?