That battle was EPIC!! Legolas and Gimli duo are hilarious!! If you want the ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY UNCUT OR the EDITED Reaction to this movie EARLY check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
Sam’s speech at the end being cut from the UA-cam edit 😢. When I was younger I thought frodos storyline was meh and focused on Aragorn Gandalf and Legolas. As I get older though, my favs have become Sam, Frodo, and Gollum. The heart of the story and its message lies with them
Grima Wormtail was emotional, because he was in a state of awe, not expecting Saruman to be able to raise such a huge army. He was simply overwhelmed with emotion at what was to follow.
The reason why CGI of battle of the Helms Deep looks so good after 20 years is that there is not that much CGI in it. There were hundreds of extras and stunt performers and it took them 4 months to shoot that battle.
The best looking method of CGI always remains compositing. Using parts from different images and pasting them together. They had a giant model of the fortress, a good number of orcs in fully detailed costumes to stand in the foreground, and lower detail computer rendered orcs to fill out the background where you can't really see much of them anyway. Put the three together into the same image and adjust the color to match (making everything dark blue makes that much easier), and you will have shots that would be impossible to film for real but still look almost just as good.
Indeed The MASSIVE scale shots of the entire armies definitely incorporate some CGI, but it's done cleverly, from a distance where the fidelity doesn't matter too much. Again clever planning and skillfull compositing are BIG BIG contributers to the quality of these effects
One of my favorite tiny details is when Aragorn hugs Haldir: elves are notoriously non-touchy people--one of the greatest signs of love in their culture is touching their own heart. Aragorn, who was raised by Elrond in Rivendel alongside elves, is one of the most physically affectionate men in the series. This implies that Elrond went out of his way to ensure young Aragorn was comfortable with his human nature to the point where he feels safe offering an embrace to anyone, even his elvish friends. I personally like to imagine Elrond encouraging him to give and receive hugs as a child and ensuring he got healthy physical contact that is so important for growing humans.
That's beautiful. But that means he touched a lot of elves as a kid learning to hug. I hope they didn't get annoyed lol Also elves would go crazy if they visited and made friends in most Mediterranean cultures.
@@praetorian3902since elves live thousands of years, I think the few years they spent with Aragorn could be compared to a normal human's "vacation week with the touchy friend"
@@lauMiciaT Hmm I see what you mean but I don't think 1 minute passes faster for elves than for humans. Now on a comedic note, if you're don't wanna be touched and a guy touches you for 1 year, logically that 1 year is gonna feel like 2 years not the other way around lol. Time is flying only when you're having fun :p
Some 20 years ago, I met a guy at a gaming convention here in Sweden. He wore a black t-shirt with the text "I survived Helm's Deep - Uruk-hai battalion". It turned out he had been hired to do some IT stuff for the production. When the movie people learned that he was also a LARPer (live action role-player), knowing how to fight and move in armor, he was hired as an extra. He played roles like a Rider of Rohan, and also (obviously) an Uruk-hai.
Although most Larpers don't really know how to fight or how to move in armor. Most of them just do it for the fun and don't practice with actual fighting manuals or whatever. Reenactors would know that kind of stuff.
I thought I remembered from the dvd extras that they were handed out after the shoot, by the producers/director because they DID survive Helm's Deep - the months of night shoots, in rain and cold, with injuries and illnesses aplenty, they wanted to acknowledge their work, dedication, commitment, and sacrifices.
Kinda sad that you edited out Sam's speech to Frodo after Sam stops him from putting the ring on in front of the Nazgul. "There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for." Most iconic line in the movie IMO.
I hate what Jackson does to Frodo's character though. Book Frodo never did that, and Sam didn't have to save him every 5 minutes. Neither did Frodo ever attack Sam with Sting or believe Gollum over Sam and send Sam away. And he and Sam were never in Osgiliath either, because Faramir never dragged them there ...he wasn't tempted by the Ring in the book. Sam is awesome - obviously- but PJ gave him an eloquent speech (partly based on the book) and took away all of Frodo's eloquence.
@@philippalinton5850you know they haven't seen third movie now right? Maybe i'm wrong if they already released it on Patreon, but please, be careful about spoilers.
@@swampfaye If you've read the book, you'll know that's not the case. For example, Book Frodo is the only hobbit who resists the Witch King at Weathertop, he stabs at him with his sword - the other hobbits are too scared to move, including Sam. In the later stages of the Quest, Frodo absolutely could not have survived without Sam. But he is not a constant damsel in distress the way the films paint him as. Book Frodo is often stern and challenging towards Gollum, he's never manipulated by him. Book Frodo stands up to Faramir and wins his respect.
Fun Fact: Tolkien and CS Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia) were best friends, and each created a character based on the other for their books. Professor Diggery from 'The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe' was Lewis' creation based on Tolkien, and Treebeard was based on Lewis. 😎👍
The Professor, Digory Kirke, seems to be more modeled on Lewis himself. Lewis lost his mother to cancer at the same age as Digory in The Magician's Nephew and was a professor who took in children evacuated from London during World War II like in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Lewis' character that seems most like Tolkien is Elwin Ransom, the everyman hero and main character in his Space Trilogy. Ransom is a professor and a philologist like Tolkien was and he has a great aptitude for figuring out the Malacandrian (i.e. Martian) language. Ransom's also a Christian, and Tolkien was one of the main people who helped convince Lewis to become a Christian so Lewis of course associated him with that.
It's so sad to me that the last thing Haldir sees as he is dying in Aragorn's arms is just a massive amount of dead Elves. There are so few of them left in Middle-Earth anymore that the destruction of almost his entire force must be a significant part of their population. And to boot, elves have been leaving; these guys gave up their chance to cross the sea and go home to their equivalent of heaven and instead sacrificed their lives in the stone and mud to give the race of Men a fighting chance.
Very true and noble ! But to be fair their spirits go back to the Halls of Mandos and it’s most likely they’re reincarnated in their physical bodies back in the realm of Valinor, where the elves are leaving to anyways
@fastpies4444 The common orcs were poor fighters and a human soldier could easily account for a lot of them. Their advantages were endurance and an ability to subsist on pretty much the most rancid conditions. An orc could march for days without rest (as long as you had somebody keeping the scum moving, left to their own devices they're lazy). Uruk-hai are the improved breed of orc (developed by Sauron, not Saruman as depicted in the movies) being taller, stronger, and able to endure the sunlight (they don't like it, mind, but can still function in it unlike a normal orc who is pretty much as befuddled as a bat dragged out of its cave at noon). If we look at the books, the uruk-hai aren't so easily overcome (Ugluk fights so well that Eomer pays the brute the unusual compliment of dismounting and fighting him in single combat) - they're certainly not the kind of savage, undisciplined, nasty vermin that an average soldier could account for several of them easily. Having said that - c'mon, an elf has hundreds if not thousands of years of training and experience behind him. Unless completely overwhelmed, an elf should be able to make short work of anybody, be they orc, man, or dwarf. You have to use tricks to defeat elves unless you have the sheer numbers to drown them in blood. That wasn't really how the movie depicted the fight. In the books, of course, it is the Grey Company who shows up - the Dunedain rangers of the north. The only other elves involved are Elrond's twin sons (both of whom survive). Of course Saruman's army was more of a disorganized horde as well, with lots of human Dunlendings, common orcs, and half-orcs taking part in the fighting. The surviving Dunlendings were spared by Theoden when they surrendred while at least a part of Saruman's army escaped and tried to join up with the hosts of Mordor at the Battle of the Pellinor Fields.
>Go to war >Die gloriously >Wake up in Mandos >Immediately given body back due to valiance in dying >Greet all your friends and family who already went to Valinor >WTF I love dying now?!?!
The army Gandalf brought were the Rohirrim, the actual warriors of Rohan. They were the ones Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli met when they were looking for Merry and Pippin. Grima used the corrupted Theoden to banish them, which is why they had to resort to having under-and over-aged people to fight in helms deep. Gandalf rode out to find them again and tell them that Theoden's mind had been restored.
Sorry, but that isn't strictly correct. Certainly not in terms of the books (which take precedence for me). Gandalf had headed west to the area around the Ford's of Isen and gathered up the scattered remnants of Théodred and Erkenbrand's forces. It was the survivors of the battle in which Theoden's son perished that Gandalf returned with. It may well have contained Eómer's Eotheod in the film for cinematic reasons, seeing as in the books Eómer is actually at Helms Deep all along. The banishing of Eómer is merely a cinematic macguffin. In the books Eómer is merely imprisoned at Meduseld and released once Gandalf has dealt with Saruman and Grìma. Eómer then rides with Théoden to the Hornburg.
@@DutchDread Yeah, in scriptwriting you want to avoid having a new character do one heroic thing and then completely disappear from the story. It's why Arwen replaces Glorfindel, and Eomer replaces Erkenbrand. It's fine in a book, less so on film.
Fun fact: the battle of helms deep is considered a masterclass in battle cinematography; it perfectly explains where everyone is, the ebbs and flows of the battle, the stakes, and keeps a strong story-progressing narrative without over narrating or ruining the pacing
@@Golladan Nah I can understand that. Even from the inside, you still have people in the walls shooting and fighting and only a small stair to reach them from the back, so pull they brought more stairs to get them. Even from behind, walls are still strong defensive positions.
It also mostly follows the Shot-Reverse Shot rule. The camera is almost always looking into the valley from the Northeast or the Southeast. The only time I can think of where the camera is on the West side is when Aragorn and Gimli sneak out through the small door on the tower, because you can't see it from the East.
Probably the best battle in any movie for the reasons you said, along with Saving Private Ryan's intro and maybe Return of the Jedi's space battle. Any other nominations?
i find it funny when the first avatar movie came out everyone was praising the motion capture suit technology xD did people know the same technology was used for gollum in the 2000s? 😂
@@Jibril_UwUpeople know that but the two aren't exactly the same. Avatar was a whole film captured seamlessly. Gollum was one character, and one that had more than a few shots where the ambient lighting wasn't quite perfectly matched to the rest of the scene around him. It's like saying why are people hyped for the ps5, don't they know the playstation came out in the 90s
It's really hard to believe that the Star Wars prequels, which came out around the same time had 30 million more in their budgets but their special effects have mostly aged like milk.
Helm’s Deep stands in a class of its own in terms of siege battle cinematography. From the establishing shots, to the music, to the character moments, to the battle progression: it really is nothing like anything before or since. There are so many layers and stories within stories. I love it.
After all these years, I finally noticed in the closing scene Sam says, "Gollum," while Frodo calls for, "Smeagol." Like each of them was manifesting what they saw in him as the internal conflict was happening just out of their sight...
Interesting! I'd actually seen it almost the other way. Just a bit earlier, Sam explained to Gollum that Frodo tried to save him, and when Gollum says no hard feelings, its one of the forst time Sam calls him by his name (granted it's Gollum), instead of Stinker. So he's not calling him nicknames here, he's using one of his names since he's starting to see a bit of good in him.
Gandalf is a Maiar, when he charges there, his battlecry "buffs" the men around him, giving them courage and removing all fear and doubt. On the other hand it actually "de-buffs" the uruk hai, making them disoriented and break formation. Its actually magic, but there are rules. He can't involve himself too much, he can help, but he can't go all out, because this isn't his fight. Against the Balrog he actually went full out because he is the master of the white flame, a Balrog is basically a mortal enemy to him and what he represents.
Exactly. And the ring of fire that moved from Círdan directly to the hand of Gandalf. One of few who understood his nature and full purpose via great insight and foresight. It played a huge role in everything. ❤
Note too about Arien the Maia who forever escorts the sun after casting aside her physical raiment. She was supporting him from behind. See. The Maiar never left and I’m sure more nameless ones still wander middle earth!
The Balrog was also a sibling Gandalf’s known for eons long before that Balrog form was taken through Morgoth. So he was fighting a sibling he has known for so long. Which is as sad as it is Poetic. Oh. And they teamed up temporarily after the fall to fight the nameless things. It’s in the books.
Andy Serkis is an absolute master actor in his portrayal of Smeagól and Gollum. He manages to make you care so much and it makes so much more sense why Bilbo chose to spare him. He is just as much a victim of his circumstances as Frodo. Really love this movie!
Just to say: the reason Wormtongue was crying when he saw the army was simply because he didn't realise the SCALE of what was happening. He was a greedy, slimy little rat of a person, who manipulated Theoden into serving him and had fun with it. Then he lost everything and got thrown out of Rohan, so turned and ran to Rohan's enemy (Saruman, who he was working for the entire time) and basically spilled his guts, selling out all of Rohan for the sake of petty revenge. It's only when he sees Saruman's army that the weight of what's happening actually hits him: he's just sentenced all of Rohan to DEATH. Wormtongue was slimy and selfish, but he wasn't PURE EVIL, he was just greedy and pathetic. In being so pathetic, he sold out his own people for the sake of revenge, and when seeing Saruman's army, suddenly realises what a terrible thing he's just done.
Read the books a lot and rewatched the movies 20x. I always thought Wormtongue was crying because how beautiful and big the army was. But you make a better point, have to read the books again 😂
Faramir resisted the temptation of the Ring in the books and set them free from the cave. The way he was treated in the movies rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Faramir was wiser and purer of heart than Boromir, while Boromir was the stronger leader and warrior.
imo they showed Faramir resist the ring in the movie. He just had to understand why it was better not to send it to his father, I don't think he immediately understood it's power.
The Osgiliath flashback not being in the theatrical cut of the film really does seem mental in hindsight, because the context does makes both Boromir and Faramir's motivations so much more sympathetic rather than just obstacles.
at the same time it ruins the flow. Suddenly a random long af flashback showing up when all the other movies are flashback-less. Except for some short dreams here and there
@@joe.banana I think people worry too much about "flow". Audiences generally have a better attention-span than people give them credit for, and will be able to follow storylines without having to be led on a leash from scene to scene. In my experience almost every time important plot and character explaination are cut for the sake of flow the end result seem to considered worse by basically everyone except a small group of film-hobbyists and critics who have a preset idea of what good "flow" is supposed to look like. The theatrical cut of Alien3 vs the assembly cut is a good example. Prometheus from the same series was mainly critizised for having characters people didn't care about who did stupid things for no reason, and this was the result of them cutting out most of the scenes that made you understand and sympathize with those characters, and that explained their actions, just to give the film as tight pacing and flow as possible.
That little sting of music when Eowyn hears that Aragorn has fallen is in Old English, roughly translated it says "So used was she to feeling the spirits sink, she had not heard her heart's own wish" The music of Rohan has lyrics in old English, and it's great. The books had huge amounts of poems and songs in them, that make the world feel lived-in and give a feeling for cultures, and a lot of them were incorporated into the soundtrack. Gondor is a country, the battle took place in a city called Osgiliath, and it's right on the edge of the territory Gondor can still hold. The White City, capitol of Gondor, is called Minas Tirith.
Every time I rewatch these movies I learn something new. You've opened up yet another minor detail that adds that much more depth to the story, what a beautiful quote. Thank you.
40:46 - "I feel like weve outnumbered them, but it's almost too good to be true." Tolkien actually coined a term called "Eucatastrophe" from the Greek "Eu" meaning "good" and catastrophe, a sudden turn, to explain the feeling here. Literally all hope lost, then suddenly Gandalf shows up with the Rohirrim, the Ents march on Isengard, Frodo and Sam set free by Faramir. It's a theme common in the books and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.
25:09 In this scene, Theoden is full of emotion, both fear and anger, and when he stops short saying "Where was Gon...." and looks away, you can see in his eyes that he is stopping himself from saying something. He was about to delve too deep into his own pain. He was about to say "Where was Gondor when my son was slain?"
I reckon part of why Aragorn stands out as a character, is how committed Viggo Mortensen was to the role. He really went all in. He was the one main actor that all the stunt folks wanted to do scenes with. A key part of their job, is that they can go nuts on each other, but the main actors must not be injured. Viggo made it very clear early on, that he wanted no special treatment. He'd meet them physically. He was "one of them" during this whole production. He bought the horse he bonded with, and stables it in New Zealand.
It's funny how Sparta's Hero Boner sees him interpreting everything as "Aragorn taking up his role in uniting the Realm". Aragorn is this movie's Jon Snow...
He also bought the horse that the stunt double for Arwen rode in the first movie and gave it to her because she really cared for that horse but couldn't afford to buy it herself.
@sifumagoo1776 Viggo took the role and elevated himself into the kingdom of eternal fandom. aragorn vrs his character in greenbook are just a perfect blend. viggo is the goat for life now.
He was also the only one of the main actors who used a steel sword rather than an aluminum and rubber prop! Viggo was even called "the best swordsman I've ever trained" by the sets sword master.
He insisted that Aragorn should carry his knife, because "as a ranger he's accustomed to living in the wilderness and hunting for sustenance, and he wouldn't skin and clean game with his sword". Small thing, but it really shows how much he tried to understand the character as more than just "the hero".
"The Ents are going to war. It is likely that we go to our doom. The last march of the Ents." This is one of the most underrated lines in the whole 3 movies for me. The Ents truly believe that they are going to die and get extinct, but they choose to go nonetheless because it is the right thing to do.
Talking about listening to dialogue, the very first thing Gandalf said to Frodo in the opening movie is..." A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early, He arrives precisely when he means to" This is why when Gandalf said he is going to be somewhere at a certain time...he generally turns up. ( When he's not being kidnapped by Saruman that is! )
I have a ton of info so I will try to be brief: 1. There are hours of behind the scenes footage that you should 100% watch after you are done. The sheer scale of what went into making these movies is almost incomprehensible. 2. Any chance they had, the production team tried to use practical effects. The only CGI in these movies comes when they literally couldn't do it practically. Trolls, the Balrog, Gollum, etc. are CGI. Explosions, all of Rohan and the horses, size differences in characters, those are all practical. 3. You've mentioned the music multiple times. It's way better than most people realize. Every race was given a theme. Hobbits get a light/happy tune, orcs get forboding/driving, Rohan gets a nomad feel. But then it's taken a step further and every race gets exclusive instruments the themes are played on. Hobbits get woodwinds, Rohan gets violins, orcs are deep horns, etc. When scenes that are exclusively one race appear on screen, these instruments tell you subconsciously who the scene is about without ever seeing the race or characters. One important aspect to listen for in the third film: Anytime you hear vocal choruses or chants something spiritual is happening. 4. Theoden has the best character arc in the trilogy. Remember what happened in this movie and watch out for it in the third.
It’s subtle, but it’s not just “dishonor” that makes Legolas concerned. He’s an immortal elf from Mirkwood. These past two movies, he’s been experiencing death of others on a mass scale, for the first time in his life. He’s got a lot on his mind.
First ever death of a man was witnessed by Finrod Felagund, discovered mankind and befriended the greatest of the three houses of the Edain. And became best friends with the head honcho and his death was a very long drawn out thing for him to lose his friend for practical eternity. At least until dagor dagorath. Finrod is also the eldest brother of Galadriel. They’re very close too ❤
Didn't he see a lot of death during the war in the Hobbit series? Or was that something the movies added arbitrarily? *(haven't read any of the source material)
@@watchthis8Othe Hobbit never explicitly mentions Legolas being present (which makes sense, as I don’t think Tolkien had conceived of him as a character yet), but it makes sense that he would’ve been there. Then again, perhaps he was tasked with protecting the realm while Thranduil was gone.
@@watchthis8O Legolas being in the Hobbit movies is completely added, he isn't there in the book, so it really could be his first time witnessing so many deaths
15:05 Bascially, Grima thought Saruman would take over Rohan, and leave him in place as Chief Stooge. He's just now realising that Saruman means to destroy Rohan, which would leave Grima with just ash and bones to rule over.
@@midtwilightblue Not a chance. That's a look of terror and guilt. Grima had no idea the scale of destruction Saruman both planned and was capable of. He's like so many Quislings during the War who thought they could work with the Nazis and didn't know the degree to which they sold out their own people in order to grasp some scraps of power for themselves.
no one has said this yet but TREEBEARD IS VOICED BY JOHN RHYS DAVIES WHO IS GIMLI. the fact that he voices one of the shortest and also the tallest being in the trilogy is peak. they also created the 'gravel' sound by having john read his lines through a wooden mic of sorts.
As to where the riders of Rohan come from, in the movie Gandalf just went and found Éomer and his troops. In the books, the situation in the land is very different. There are constant skirmishes with orcs everywhere in the mark, while the corrupted king Théoden sits on his throne doing nothing. The military force of Rohan is spread thin, divided into many small battle groups. When Gandalf lifts Théoden's corruption, Èomer is pardoned immediately and actually fights with them from the beginning at Helm's Deep. He actually has a really cool bro type relationship to our orc hunting trio in the books that doesn't really come across on screen. All they can muster though is a remnant of the Edoras garrison and whatever fighting men have found their way to the fortress already. Gandalf spends day and night riding across the Riddermark, gathering all splintered soldiers of Rohan he can find that are still in fighting shape, and unites them under the banner of Erkenbrand of Westfold, a noble of Rohan who didn't make it into the movies. They end up leading the final charge to win Helm's Deep in the book.
Also worth mentioning that in the books Uruk Hai are only a part of Sarumans army which also includes humans, normal orcs and orcish humans, there's a good passage of Aragorn exchanging words with the attackers
Watcthing the battle of Helms Deep really makes you appreciate just a how AWFUL episode 8x03 of GOT really was. Helms deep is pure art, The Long Night is a visual fart.
It wasn't just visually bad, it's also a narrative failure top to bottom. Like white paper what not to do. Im so fucking glad I never got into GoT much, always saw it for the pretentious voyeuristic carnage fest it was
Whenever i think of The Long Night i get really sad. And not just because the episode was so shit, but because you can tell how much fucking Effort almost everyone involved put into it, the actors, the Setdesigners, the camera crew, the VFX team. All that time, work and effort, only to get ruined by fucked editing and shit writing. How 2-3 people can ruin the huge ammount of work done by the whole crew, fucking tragic :3 Same goes for The Bells and basically the entiretey of Season 8. What a waste man^^
If you guys want to get into the books which have a lot more detail they couldn’t fit in the movies and some things that were changed for the movies, then Andy Serkis who is the actor of Gollum, has voiced audiobooks for The LOTR, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion. He does the voices SO well, he’s really good at sounding like the movie actors, and gets you really engaged.
The extra focus on all the dead elves on the battlements at 34:45 is to truly make you appretiate the tragedy of those losses. Each and every one of those elves are hundreds if not thousands of years old. Can you imagine that? Thousands upon thousands of years of experiances, of light and music and art, whiped out in mere hours. This is possibly the greatest loss of elves since the battle of the last alliance that took down Sauron last time. It is the tragedy of an age, and yet there is no real time to focus on it, for it has only just begun.
@fastpies4444 So you people complain about Legolas and other elves being complete, cartoon level badasses, but then you also complain about elves dying in a battle. You're one of the worst types of Tolkien fans.
@@HollowBagel I don’t recall ever complaining that elves died, I simply highlighted the tragedy that was each and every one of those losses. As for your other point I urge you to point out where I ever complained about Legolas skill or that of any elf for that part. If anything the existence of elves like Fingolfin prove that elves are canonically “cartoon level badass”, I take no issue with the fact.
The Hobbit is a wonderful backstory and explains how Bilbo found the ring, and a great opportunity to revisit Middle-Earth, which I loved. The Introduction is great and we see Bilbo as a younger hobbit played by Martin Freeman to perfection. I think it really does a good job of showing what the dwarves were struggling with. This includes Gimli's father Gloin and Gimli's cousin Balin whose tomb Gimli found in Moria, as well as many other dwarves who are great fun getting to know. Unfortunately Peter Jackson wasn't given the time to develop it in the same way as LOTR. Additionally he was pressured to make what was originally a single volume and essentially a story for his children's amusement into an "epic" of similar proportions as LOTR. CGI had developed much further when this movie was made and in my opinion was over used. Additionally a significant amount of "padding" was added in order to turn this into a trilogy where in my opinion two movies would have been more than sufficient. On the upside there is a reprieve of Gandalf the Grey, Elrond, Legolas, Saruman and Galadriel, which is very nice. The dragon Smaug is wonderful, and overall I enjoyed these movies. They are definitely not the same caliber as LOTR but still fun in my opinion and worth reacting to. I would enjoy seeing your reaction if you decided to watch them and I'm very much looking forward to your reaction to The Return of the King. Cheers!
"The Hobbit" movies have a reputation as being bad movies, but I strongly disagree with that notion. Yes, there are flaws, and as you've said, they're not the same caliber of movies as Lord of the Rings. But my lord, movies can be a LOT worse than Lord of the Rings, and still be absolutely amazing movies. If we're calling any movies that are worse than Lord of the Rings "bad" then oh boy, the world has practically only ever produced bad movies... In the end, what the Hobbit movies did "right" for me, was take me back to Middle Earth. It still has the gorgeous landscapes, the amazing music, the incredible acting. Watching The Hobbit still gives me that same feeling that watching Lord of the Rings does. That feeling of coming home. Having said that, I agree with every criticism of the movies you've outlined here.
I feel like, if the Hobbit movies could talk, they would say "Well, EXCUSE US for not being as good as one of the greatest classics in the history of cinema..."
@@jamesnewham7125 yeah I especially missed the individual live-action orcs but also I try to remember that they really didn´t have much time to prepare and film them as opposed to lotr so I try to look past that. Also Smaug was a real treat and the CGI was maybe not perfect in general but still solid enough and the actors brought so much life into these sometimes practically blank-slate characters that I can´t help but love the hobbit movies for that alone :>
That Aragorn death fakeout is such a weird creative choice. It's not in the book, and even people who had never read them like me weren't fooled for a second that this hugely important character would just be randomly killed off like that. It also didn't help that we hadn't yet seen the shot of him marching through the Helm's Deep gate that was in all the ads.
It is pretty weird when you think about it, because it doesn't add anything aside from seeing his friends reactions to his 'death', and his loving horse. Maybe he was originally going to go on some side adventure stuff but they had to cut it? With such a long runtime they could have easily cut out that whole section and I don't think you lose much.
@@silver9wolf6Which is also a negative change from the book; in the book Theoden doesn't immediately run away to Helm's Deep, he _does_ go out to do battle with Saruman's army, and only retreats to Helm's Deep _after_ realising how big it is. In the film, it's pretty ridiculous because the small raiding bands that we've seen _before_ the big army wouldn't be able to threaten Edoras, which is already pretty defensible. There would be no point in retreating.
This film in a big cinema was an incredible experience, the battle of helms deep was like being assaulted for an hour. If anyone gets the chance to watch this trilogy on the big screen I highly recommend it, the sound alone is incredible. The Balrog scene from Fellowship was also absolutely insane at the cinema!
My theater just recently did a full extended version marathon. All three movies back-to-back. We were at the theater for 12 hrs 😂😂 But it was SO worth it. Seeing them again on the big screen was so cool. I’ll never forget the return of the king premier night. The theater had more people than seats. Back when seats weren’t assigned. There were people sitting on the stairs but no one minded. Such an amazing experience.
Well, I wouldn’t say time proved them wrong, as the battle of the bastards is still as good now as it was when it came out (nothing about it changed; only the show after it wasn’t good). Instead, I’d just say that they were wrong to begin with. BotB was good, but it never was a Helm’s Deep. In fact, even the brutal collision of riders we saw at the beginning of BotB that everyone praised (rightly so, imo) was also done in Two Towers, when the Rohirrim fought off the warg riders.
Like Jon being able to knock a guy backwards off his horse with his sword... physically impossible, breaks my immersion immediately. Massive wall of bodies just spontaneously forming on the battlefield? Also not gonna happen. Not giving the giant any weapons? STUPID.
It’s hard to have a favorite film because it’s one 12 hour long movie. The graphics still hold after 20 years because the director used miniatures. The making of LOTR documentary will blow your mind! Also, pay attention to Sméagol/Gollum’s eyes… they dilate when he changes personalities.
Yeah, so the language of the Ents is interesting. For example, a thing's name grows as it gets older. Treebeard's actual name, spoken in Entish, would take like a week to say. He allows other races to call him Treebeard or Fangorn out of courtesy and consideration for them.
I always found that super interesting and I related to Treebeard more than any character in the books. I feel he might have helped represent the linguistic master that was Tolkien, but some people have claimed he based his character on CS Lewis who used to hoom and hum to himself a lot and pontificate about linguistics.
Oh my god this movie has so much brilliant acting. Doesn't matter how many times I watch it. One of my favourites when Grima (Brad Dourif) just see Saruman's army and that tear from his eye shows that he realized the weight of his betrayal, and his fear. Brilliant!
I always connected Grima's tears to that he felt responsible for the doom of men. He never would have imagined that Saruman would go to such length as he did.
I think when Grima tears up it's because he truly realizes what he has done and thinks that he has doomed his own people. He wanted high status and to have their admiration and rule them, he didn't want them annihilated.
The point about the elves is that they have been leaving Middle Earth for years. There are many factions of elves throughout Middle Earth but basically, the elves know that their time has passed and are slowly leaving Middle Earth to allow for the rule of men. In the film, Galadriel sent several of her own troops to help defend Helm’s Deep (this doesn’t happen in the book). The point about Haldir saying “I bring word from Elrond of Rivendell” is more to pay homage to the fact that Elrond was there during the Battle of the Last Alliance.
They did a great job in this movie in giving Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas individual realtionships to each other that elevates their dynamics as a team. You get little moments that show how Aragorn and Legolas know each other from way back and are good friends, and how Legolas respects Aragorn a lot, and they also show the friendly rivalry and friendship that has developed between Legolas and Gimli, who only just met in Rivendell last movie, and how much affection Gimli has for Aragorn, like in that scene where he arrives at Helm's Deep after Brego finds him and Gimli's all fatherly and scolds him for being reckless before hugging him and telling him "Bless you, laddie" because he made it out alive, and then later not only allows Aragorn to toss him across a pit but actually asks him to do so, though he still requests that Legolas doesn't find out it happened. Those guys are top tier.
Make sure you have a few boxes of tissues for the final film. I've never cried so much, at so many different scenes, in any film ever. And I was in tears throughout the last 20 minutes. It's cinematic perfection!
Your take on Gandalf at the beginning is actually pretty good. In the books, Tolkien describes him in his reborn form as being somehow both more intimidating and alien and yet more comforting and personal. And since the Ishtari (wizards) are stand-ins for angelic figures from Christianity, that is a pretty appropriate description.
Nice reaction - can you imagine what it was like to spend all year waiting for this, and then get knocked over by this movie, and then sit around waiting for another year? People were going crazy w the anticipation - it's hard to describe what kind of experience it was those three years when these films came out - and for those of us familiar w the material, it was like Gandalf arriving at Bilbo's in the first movie - it almost felt like coming home, or revisiting a long lost childhood
GOD DAMN THAT BATTLE WAS EPIC!! Gimli and Legolas are HILARIOUS If you want the ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY UNCUT OR the EDITED Reaction to the next movie EARLY check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
😆 Some of us waited from Christmas 2002 to Christmas 2003 to find out who "she" is, unless of course, we read the books first. I'm really enjoying your reactions to Jackson's retelling of my favorite story. I won't try to explain what you just saw. Other viewers are doing that well. Reading Tolkien's novels afterward will give you so much additional insight to the lore you see in these films. Reading "The Silmarillion" after that adds pretty much completes the universe Tolkien created (mostly, and sort of). That said, with the movies you are watching, Peter Jackson presents a faithful, though not complete, presentation of Tolkien's novels. The Hobbit trilogy by Jackson is definitely worth the watch. It sets the stage nicely these The Lord of the Rings films. But if you don't have time for all that reading, you can find well done unabridged audio CD readings for Tolkien's novels. Perfect for a long road trip, or two! Big thumbs up 👍 I watched you react to The Fellowship of the Ring Parts 1 and 2 last week, liked and subscribed, then The Two Towers Parts 1 and 2 this morning, then liked each. The bell notification brought me here this morning.
I love how Brego (the horse Aragorn said to release as he had seen enough war) rescues Aragorn from the riverside.. kneels so he can climb on.. and then ironically carries him into multiple subsequent battles..❤ always makes me tear up a bit..
The horse they used was different from the one they originally planned for too. They wanted to train the horse to sit down next to Viggo lying on the floor so that he could grab onto it and hoist himself into the saddle, and for safety reasons started with a dummy. The original horse kept sitting on the dummy’s head, so they had to switch to another one, which Viggo eventually trained with himself (having it sit down next to him on the floor and all that)
Lots of castles in “the real world” had little side doors for launching attacks from. Usually called “Sally ports” they were used to “Sally forth” and make counter attacks. The doors were small and easily defended, unlike the main gates of a caste which were large, and easier to bring troops to gear against.
Fun Fact: the Rain 🌧️ at beginning of the Battle at Helms Deep was 💯% natural rain 🌧️ for the entire prep work before the actual shoot it was confirmed numerous times of clear skies with no rain in the forecast... So they continued prepping for the shoot right up to the last minute before Peter Jackson yelled Action... An on que the REAL RAIN 🌧️ started to fall. So the reactions you see from everyone was real, they were not expecting ANY rain 🌧️☔ to fall... I love that...
One thing I don’t like is that Haldir, the leader of the troupe of elves that arrives at Helm’s Deep, only mentions Elrond and not Galadriel 🙄 I am glad Spartan noticed that these elves are from Lothlorien (where Galadriel rules) and not from Rivendell
He was paying homage to him and the last alliance whilst it was obvious to the three hunters where Haldir came from and his name means hidden hero so it makes sense to put him in the film. Still should have brought the Dúnedain rangers with them in the book to show them arriving as a team cut from the same cloth so to speak. In the books it apparently was no elves at all and I swore it was the Dúnedain instead. Either way it was a great way to visually show their thousands of years of sorrow in those scenes with Haldir at Helm’s Deep etc.
That and Rohan was superstitious about Lothlòrien. Calling it Dwimordene to the point where gimli and Gandalf got mad. Gandalf singing a little song about Lòriens! Gandalf’s Song Of Lòrien. There is a cover done out there that sounds literally like Gandalf singing it and their becomes a vocal duet too where there is a deeper female voice accompaniment. Vocal. Not verbal in this case. Feels like Galadriel !
@@Makkaru112- Iirc in the books Arwen's two brothers came with the Dunedain to Helm's Deep. All children of Elrond could choose if they wanted to be elves or humans, because Elrond was born of a mixed couple. Elrond chose to be an elf and his brother Elros to be human (he is actually Aragorn's ancestor, from thousand of years prior to the current time, that's why Elrond also cares about Aragorn's destiny, because it's his brother's line); Elrond's children can choose too.
I think it’s probably because Arwen was originally going to be with them and they actually filmed her Liv fighting at Helms deep before going back to something closer to the books
Gandalf, and all the wizards, were sent to middle earth as advisors to inspire and unite the people in the fight against Sauron. The wizards were forbidden to use their true power in the fight. This is why he cannot just “use magic” to win a battle. He undoubtedly could, as he is a god-like angelic being in human form.
Which is why I get so annoyed when Saruman and Elrond argue about Sauron's return in The Hobbit. Dudes, the whole reason the wizards were sent was to prepare for his return.
I actually ended up see this movie before the first one. Story time: My Dad had movie passes that were about to expire, and thought i had seen Fellowship for some reason, so asked if I wanted to go. I said yes, not caring about what we were seeing, just happy to go see a movie with Dad. The start time was printed wrong in the newspaper, so we got there late and missed the prolog, arriving just before Aragon's helmet kick. Watch the rest of the movie, pure magic of course. After the movie: Dad, to me: what did you think of the movie? Me: it was great, thank you sooooo much! It was hard to understand what was going on at first; they really must have explained a lot during the part we missed. But the story's really good and the effects look great! I sure hope they make a second one! Dad: ...wait? Haven't you see the first one? Me: ...there's a first one?!? And that's how my Dad and I watched one of the best movies ever made, both of us having no idea what was going on 😂 Best. Dad. Ever ❤❤❤
The other bit - the info Sam told Faramir, that Boromir had sworn an oath to protect Frodo, and then tried to kill him. I think that drove home - on top of the lapse and trying to take the ring, breaking his given word was just utterly unthinkable. Oaths to these guys aren't just light promises, they're genuine 'I will do this or die in the attempt' situations. That something could cause Boromir to go against that was horrifying.
For me the most important thing about these stories is that they were written by a man who’d survived world war 1. Frodo’s trauma in particular mirrors that - you can’t come back from it the same
27:28 In the book the big thing about this battle was that the men alone were able to win on their own, withouth other help I think. Cause the elves had their own battles to fight with orcs at their cities.
They had reinforcements before the battle, but if I remember right it was a company of their own men but no one was sure if they got the message or would have time to get there if they did.
Рік тому+6
Love these films! Seen them several hundred times (for real!). Me and my sister used to watch them almost daily for years. I tattooed the quote from Sam "There's good in this world and it's worth fighting for" in elvish on my back. When my sister died, I read the whole monologue on her funeral. These movies changed my life ❤❤❤❤
The Boromir flashback scene was on the extended cut and never shown in cinemas. And I think that is such a shame because it's one his best moments and it really shows a new side to Boromir. We see him before any corruption took place and we see that he is a great hero, a caring brother and a loyal son. But we also see what I think was implied in Fellowship but never shown, that he was never corrupted by the ring for selfish reasons. Most who are corrupted seek the ring for themselves, either so they can be powerful (like Isildur) or so they can just own a shiny trinket (smeagol.) But for Boromir he was loyal to his father. He was acting on his fathers wishes. And he claims in Fellowship he just wants "the strength to defend [his] people." And this scene really shows that his main focus is on the defence of Gondor. He would not have left the city of Osgiliath had his father not asked. I really believe he only cares about his people and it’s his father who corrupted him first, as his father is blinded by desire to own it for personal reasons. I also think it makes the Boromir death scene more impactful because for similar reasons, he has been so distrusting of Aragorn because his father who currently runs Gondor has probably corrupted him to believe that he is the rightful ruler. But its when the corruption of the ring leaves Boromir, that he realises that Aragorn is the true king and it’s in the best interest of Gondor and “his people” to have the rightful king return, rather than be led by a Steward.
Filming the battle of Helm's Deep was an epic undertaking. It took 3 weeks of night shoots in pouring fake rain. They built a full scale section of walls, quarter scale models, even smaller models. they blew things up, added 10k digital soldiers. And when Gimli sounds the horn of Helm Hammerhand and Theoden rides out... the theater is shaking with that sound and God it was epic. And it's nothing compared to what's coming.
The wizard colors are meant to portray the hierarchy and do symbolize their individual purposes. Gandalf turning white means that he was sent back as a replacement of Saruman who abandoned his original purpose of supporting and encouraging those in Middle Earth to fight against Sauron.
I love Legolas' and Gimli's friendship. When we first meet them, they show us how much they detest each other. And now a movie later they are best friends 😂
I love how Theoden says "For Death and Glory", and Aragorn responds with "For your people", as in, telling him to not fight for himself, for to fight in order to protect those he loves. Little moments like that show what a natural leader Aragorn is, and why the Rohirrim respected him and followed him into battle.
Bolomir scene was added via extended edition and was the best as it really emphasizes their family dynamic. The banter between Legolas and Gimli priceless. Loved playing the movie scenes in video games. One more to go!
This movie has always been so emotional to me. The first time I saw the end of the battle "when the horn of hammerhand sounds one last time" I was speechless. It brings up so much emotion I cant help but cry. The music is amazing, I also love the music in GOT 💚
Thank you so much for reviewing my favorite films, the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This has been my favorite trilogy since they were released. You can’t imagine how hard it was to wait a full year to see each one! I especially appreciate how impressed you are with the CGI that is now 20+ years old, and yet still holds up. You can’t imagine how groundbreaking it was for us seeing it back in the day. It was unlike anything we’ve ever seen before. Especially it’s important to remember that Gollum was one of the first fully CGI rendered major characters in a movie. He is a groundbreaking achievement, and the only way they were able to do such a phenomenal job with him is because of the actor who voiced him and also played him as a motion capture actor for placing Gollum in the scenes. That actor is Andy Serkis, and he has gone on to do numerous other voice acting and motion capture roles. He is amazing. If you have the time, you really owe it to yourself to watch the making of documentaries for each of these films. The work that went into every aspect of the movies is unbelievable, from the script, to the music, to the actors and the training went through, to the stunts, to the props, including armor and weapons, to the set design, to the wardrobe, to the locations. All of it was intended to make these cultures and places “real.” The dedication everyone involved showed is incredible. These movies were filmed, essentially back to back to back with relatively no break in between them, so that they could be released only one year apart. They are a massive achievement for everyone who worked on the films, and that has been reflected in the awards that all three of them were nominated for and won. It was believed for a long time that the Lord of the rings could never be made into a live action film. And that was actually true up until the technology especially the CGI caught up to a level to make Tolkien’s vision possible to put on film. I love watching people experience these movies for the first time because it reminds me again of seeing them for the first time in a crowded theater. Thank you again.
Ye.... Most of things I can forgive but not how they made Faramir be just like any other men. In books he let Frodo and Sam go even after he had change to get The Ring. But just like Aragorn he could let it go and sent hobbits on their way.
@@Daatistus The movies have attracted a generation to the world of Tolkien, that might not be into books at all. So on a metaphysical level of being alive in the minds of the many, it is perhaps best to think of it as an abstraction that serves as a cultural carrier. More than a faithful adaption. There was no overt malignant ideological purpose behind the changes, at least. Subconsciously perhaps some early tendencies still surfaced, because it seems inevitable. I am sure the professor himself would have detected how the times had already changed. Back when it was not so bad, from our perspective. At least Frodo... wait, that is a spoiler. But they wrote it on the walls, back in the ( Hippie ) days!
A quick look at the map shows that "evacuating" a column of civilians - TOWARDS Isengard - was catastrophically dumb. In general, Tolkien the ex-soldier showed an understanding of military matters Peter Jackson lacked. In the books, the civilian population, if it had to evacuate, would make for the refuge of Dunharrow to the south, high in the mountains at the head of a 20-mile valley the entrance to which was guarded by fortified Edoras. In reality, Theoden rode out with all the Riders he could muster on short notice for the Fords, to try to remedy the situation created when his son's army was defeated there. It turned out to be too late (and nobody, not even Gandalf, anticipated the size of the invading force), so that he prudently turned aside to take up a defensive position at Helm's Deep, knowing that on the open plains Saruman's numbers would simply surround and overwhelm his small eored.
So glad you know the names of the characters a lot better now. Looking forward to you watching the third one. It's the perfect ending to this story. It was nominated for 11 Oscars and it won all of them, including Best Picture and Best Director.
Sam’s speech at the end cut from the UA-cam edit 😢. I have to admit Frodo’s storyline once the fellowship split was my least fav when I was young. All the flash with the trio’s rohan/gondor storyline held my interest then. However, as I get older my favs have become: Sam, Frodo, and Gollum
As a book fan I hate what the films do to Frodo's character. Faramir never dragged him and Sam to Osgiliath, because Faramir was never tempted by the Ring. And Book Frodo never showed the Ring in front of a Nazgul in broad daylight and never attacked Sam with Sting. He was never fooled by Gollum or sent Sam away. He's so much braver, wiser and stronger in the book. Makes me sad.
@@philippalinton5850 Honestly I am in general agreement but from a dramatic point of view it was a brilliant scene! I really loved the almost posessed look he gets and the scene with him attacking Sam was heart-breaking and really showed how far the Ring had already taken hold of him, which is something that is quite obvious when reading and harder to show in a movie. I think I would´ve liked a couple of scenes in the first movie to be different, the confrontation at weathertop and in khazad-dum for example, to show-case how he is now clearly losing peices of himself in this one. As for Faramir, yes I have raged about that one before and I am now trying to come to terms with the fact that he was too perfect and they had to nerf him to get some kind of character-arc going. I find I quite like his character in the movie when I look at it from this perpective and also they got to show Osgiliath so viewers with no background knowledge know what the fuck people are talking about and that Gondor has been fighting Mordor for a good long while now
Gandalf and all the wizards of Middle Earth aren’t just guys who know magic… they are actually angelic beings known as Maiar or Maia (singular) Gandalf was always purely light, his color was more indicative of his rank and place in the order, just beneath Saruman and gray as in a traveling cloak. He was always moving and traveling in haste to undo the cause of evil and strengthen the cause of good. Sauron was also a Maia but he was of a degree of power higher than any of the wizards.
47:13 in the books the elves were never there. Didn’t happen. But these elves in the movie are supposed to be a combination of Noldor elves from Rivendell sent by Elrond and Haldir the Marchwarden with the rest of the Galadhrim from Lothlorien sent by Galadriel. And the Galadhrim would be comprised of Noldor, Teleri, possibly some Sindarin and Sylvan elves too.
Not only Gandalfs clothes went from grey to pure white the wiser he got also Sarumans clothes went more and more to grey during the second half of the movie
Nice piece of trivia, Viggo Mortenson (Aragorn) bought the two horses he rode in the films (one which became extremely attached to him) for himself and the white horse, Asfaloth, for Arwen's stunt double since she didn't have the money to get it. Also, have you spotted Peter Jackson's cameos yet. He was the carrot-eating guy in Bree as the Hobbits entered the gate and he was one of the spear throwers on the wall at Helm's Deep. Now that you know, you'll have to look for him in the third film. Where's PJ?
Your analysis of Gandalfs turning from gray to white was so interesting, I had never even thought about it but I'm sure now that you've picked up on the intended meaning.
also at 15:05 i’ve always interpreted Grima tearing up as his regret in siding with Saruman now that he sees the army set to destroy his neighbors with his own eyes
He finally sees the consequences of his actions. I think many 'thugs' rationalize to themselves that what they are doing doesn't really effect anything in the long run. They're just one person.... yada yada.
I would say definitely watch The Hobbit. Personally, I don't understand all the hate it gets. It is a great story and the movies are great. One thing to remember in context is The Hobbit took place many years before the Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien wrote The Hobbit first and it was written more towards children (this can be seen with the singing aspects in the movies). Tolkien was caught completely off guard by the success of The Hobbit, and that is one of the major reasons there is a noticeable shift in tone, obviously in The Lord Of The Rings, but it is reflected very well in The Hobbit film trilogy. It is something many people complain about, but I think Jackson purposefully did some of it that way to better reflect tje atyle amd the audience that Tolkien was writing to when he wrote it. Don't misunderstand..... The Hobbit films is not as good as Lord Of The Rings, and I'm not overly fond of how much CGI is used because it didn't need to be. My biggest complaint though is that The Hobbit was split into 3 films, which was an obvious cash grab, and that's what puts me off the most. I could potentially see 2 parts, but not 3 parts. It honestly could.have been done in a single movie but I agree it would have been probably 4.5 hours long.
I feel it's a good change that there was conflict in Faramir regarding the Ring, but it's a stark contrast to the books. There, the blood of Numenor runs strong in Faramir, and he basically said that he wouldn't even pick up the Ring if it lied on the side of the road. But that basically denies the incredible power the Ring has.
They also needed to add more tension to the Frodo/Sam story, which wasn't action packed at this point in the books. So it does work in the movie. I forgive them because both Faramir and Theoden revert to their book characters in RoTK and I cry buckets over them both
Yeah, that’s what always kinda irks me when people say that the movies did Faramir dirty. Yes, he’s different, but it makes more sense in the book. Rather than movie Faramir doing the book injustice, book Faramir breaks the book’s already established rules and power of the One Ring, so I consider it a necessary and good change
Yeah. imo Faramir is one of the most improved on characters in the movies. I dislike how in the books it sometimes feels like no one even cares about the ring. Bombadil doesn't care, Faramir doesn't care, Sam doesn't care. Once is fine, but every time? It diminishes the feeling of threat from the ring, in the movies the ring feels absolutely unstoppable and its great. Moreover, there is nothing impressive about not falling to a temptation you don't feel. Faramir in the movies shows much more character, because you can actually feel how much he needs the ring so when he releases Frodo despite that it says volumes about who he is as a person.
@@DutchDread Interesting. It worked for me, as a counterpoint to his brother and an appeal that there is, in fact, incorruptibility in the heart of SOME men. For Bombadil, Tolkien leaves a little trail of breadcrumbs that he may not be human at all (he remembers "the first raindrop and the first acorn") but, in fact, a fundamental opposite to Sauron, who is called "The Eye." Compare Sauron, about whom "they feared the light of his eyes" with Tom's : "his blue eye peering through the circle of the Ring." Sam DOES care, and goes through the very same TEMPTATION as everyone else : "He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur."
Also, I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but in the books, Faramir and the Rangers don't mistreat Gollum and he lets the three of them go fairly soon. That was one of the gripes that many Tolkien fans had with the movies in that Faramir was a much more sympathetic character in the novels but much rougher in the films. I think Jackson felt he needed an extra edge for dramatic tension. The movies made it work (sort of) but if you have time, read up on the novel version of Faramir; a much wiser and kinder character (and one of my favorites in the trilogy).
Gollum is a main character in this middle Earth story from the time he appeared in the hobbit ( chapter: riddles in the dark) until now. Just remember if it was not for him finding the ring this story would not have taken place!
when Theoden (Saruman) banish Eomer from Rohan, the men who are loyal goes with him (the Rohirrim, elite horse riders of Rohan) Most of Rohan army was chivalry too so that was the explanation for that "army"
You're correct that the Elves who arrive at Helm's Deep were from Lothlorien, very well spotted! Haldir (the leader) is the one who briefly captured the Fellowship when they first got to Lothlorien, if you remember the bit where they step out of the trees and he says "the Dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark." That bit doesn't actually happen at all in the books, but I think it works very well in the film.
Also in the book, Aragorn’s Ranger also buddies come to fight at Helms Deep along with Elrond’s two sons. Just an added tidbit. Of course the movie can’t put all that into it, as they would be 6 hours long lol but the Rangers had a role to play at this point in the story 😊
Every time you two introduce yourselves, I can't help but think "she is so NOT pudgy!" Clearly, the word has a different connotation here in the States. LOL! Anyway, really enjoying re-watching this trilogy with you - you both pick up on so much that many others seem to miss. One interesting little tidbit is that John Rhys-Davies (Gimli) is actually the TALLEST member of our fellowship at 6'1".
The Hobbit isn't as great as LotR, but there aren't many films that even come close to be fair. If you want to explore a bit more of the world after seeing the ending of these movies, I'd still be happy to watch your reactions to the Hobbit films. There's still a lot of good content there, even if the Hobbit trilogy probably could have been done better as two movies instead of three. ^^
It’s quite good. And then when you go to the behind the scenes you’ll see just how much love was put into it. Equally as much as the original trilogy. And it’s not meant to be LOTR. And it’d have been better if PJ had it from the start and didn’t get called to rescue it from the exploding whirling nosedive Deltoro was sending the movies into such a mess. It’s ROP that needs your eyre directed towards it. 😂
Just with the Rohirrim riding out. If you remember, Gandalf had counselled against them holing up in Helm's Deep. The Rohirrim are the absolute *unstoppable* cavalry of Middle Earth - it's why Sauron wanted Saruman to keep them out of the war. On foot, a Rohan soldier is damned good, but put him on a horse and he's nigh-on unbeatable. Their horses aren't just horses, either. They're extremely intelligent, and phenomenal weapons in their own right. This is why Gandalf wanted Theoden to meet the army of Saruman in the field, mounted - he knew that was the best way for them to win.
@@Blackferret66 - I think Jackson was trying to push the narrative of the Rohirrim being the greatest cavalry in the world. Easier to do in a book, I'm guessing - in the movie, he had to try and get Theoden to confront Saruman in open spaces to use their cavalry advantage. That's the best guess I can come up with.
@@philiponeill6903 Perhaps, but Jackson seemed to have a thing for portraying Men in a more negative light than in the books. "Mortal men doomed to die" wans changed to "Who above all, desire power". Going to Helms Deep was made out to be the wrong decision. Faramir was done dirty by making him a violent jerk before having a change of heart, whereas in the book, he just let them go..
@@Blackferret66 - I have to disagree on some of that. Faramir's personality and actions were one of the areas where the films improved on the books. Book-Faramir was too perfect, saying he wouldn't pick up the Ring if he found it lying by the roadside. There was nowhere for him to go. Movie-Faramir was a much more believable character who I think is a much better man than Book-Faramir. He was tempted, and nearly succumbed, but then overcame that temptation and succeeded where his brother failed. I felt he was a much better characterisation who actually had a character arc that showed him learning and changing. He overcame the frailties of both his brother and his people to eventually make the right decision. Men were consistently portrayed in the book as the most corruptible of the Races. They were constantly tricked by Sauron and previously by Morgoth. They tried to invade Valinor and got their nation sunk. Isildur fell under the sway of the Ring. "Wicked Men" and Black Numenoreans consistently caused problems, including serving in Sauron's armies in the case of the Southrons and Haradrim.
@@philiponeill6903 Men were corruptible, yes, but Jackson's portrayal was too ham-fisted, imo. The fact that even the books spoke of it, meant that it wasn't necessary to hammer it in even more than was written in them. I still think Faramir was done dirty. Boromir was tempted, and almost gave in, but Faramir wasn't. If Faramir is tempted like Boromir, it just makes them the same character. Faramir was supposed to be a more noble character, a man of peace and introspection who kept his vow, depsite what it could cost him. In the movie, he was even worse, as he wasn't even tempted by it, like Boromir, as he had no contact with it for the ring to begin manipulating him. He wanted to give it to his father to prove himself. The ring's influence had nothing to do with it.
I saw this in the theater. By the end of the movie I had to pee SO bad, and then Peter Jackson dared to add a huge water scene. I was pissed off! :D Great reaction. I'm glad you're enjoying this. Cheers!
Some neat little behind the scenes about Helm’s Deep: - The Uruk war chant was originally just smg the Uruks’ actors did to keep themselves motivated and awake during the long night shoots in between scenes, and was tweaked for the film. To get the feel that you had an entire army doing it, Peter Jackson set up some sound equipment in a New Zealand sports stadium during halftime and had the spectators chant what you hear in the movie. - You can see Peter Jackson in a quick cameo, chucking a spear. - The destruction of the wall was a practical effect, though done on a miniature of course. They could only do one shot of it as a result, and thus just pointed as many cameras at it as they could as it exploded. - When the team in charge of building the front gate saw the already finished ram the Uruks would use, they got a little scared and made the gate extra sturdy. They succeeded, and a little too much as well, since the battering ram now proved wholly incapable of even budging the gate more than a few centimeters. Someone remarked that, had that team been present at the actual battle, the Uruks would’ve never breached the gate.
The deal with the Forbidden Pool was that it was too close to the Gondorians' hideout - actually might have been a part of it. They couldn't risk anyone finding it, finding the hideout, and escaping to alert Mordor's forces
Yeah, I don't think they actually worshiped the pool. It was just a random pool. Faramir just needed an excuse to force Frodo to help him catch Smeagal.
Enjoyed your reactions! Many reactors are confused by the Forbidden Pool bearing the penalty of death. Faramir and his men are a commando group operating behind enemy lines, and the pool lies right in front of their hideout behind the waterfall. They can't risk Gollum being taken and revealing their presence.
Spartan: Aragorn can’t be my 3rd favorite because I haven’t seen enough of him. Also Spartan: Boromir is my 3rd favorite. Aragorn had SO much more screen time than Boromir thus far, so we’ve a lot more of Aragorn. 😂
Loving your reactions to this story! Your analysis and readings of the characters and story elements are so good! Keep going! Gandalf: "Three hundred lives of men I've walked this earth, and now I have no time" he says as he heads off to find Eomer's Eorde of riders who are riding north out of Rohan (because Eomer was banished), and get them to Helm's Deep before Aragorn, the King and his men fell. And he knew when he said it that they would arrive at dawn on the fifth day.
Just to clarify for those unsure of the elf factions: The elves that came as reinforcements are only there in the movies, in the books they never reinforced the humans, as most of them were either leaving Middel Earth or fighting their own battles. I think it's a nice touch, though, as it made not much sense to me in the books that they didn't help Rohan, as Saruman winning there ment attacks on several elf realms. The ones we see in the movie use the "flag" of Lothlorien, the realm of Galadriel, and are known as Galadhrim. They are the least numerous of the big elf kingdoms, but also the closest one to the battle of Helm's Deep, so it makes sense they were the ones coming, not just due to distance, but because Lothlorien would be the first to feel Saruman's wrath after the defeat. The High Elves live mostly in Rivendell and Lindon, which is west of the Shire. They are the faction led by Elrond and Cirdan (who only appears in one scene right at the end of the third movie, in the docks. He is the oldest elf in Middle Earth). Both Ñoldor and Sindar elves live here, and they are the most powerful by far of all the elves. Theyw ere the first to leave Middle Earth, taht's why they don't participate in the battles we see. You also have the elves of Mirkwood, also known as Silvan Elves. Legolas is the prince of these elves, and his father Thranduil has been king for a looooong time. They have their own wars against the orcs of Dol'Guldur, a fortress reinhabited by one of the Nazgul and thousands of orcs to attack the people in the north east. That's why they can't help, in fact, one of the major battles of the third age was fought here at the same time as the ones yoou are seeing in the movies. The dwarves of Erebor and the humans of Dale were also present in this huge battle against Rhûn (one of the corrupted human factions, the biggest and most powerful of them all, stronger than Gondor, probably). You also have the Avari, which are elves that refused to leave Middle Earth. Problem is, most are east of the map we see in the Lord of the Rings. It is said they formed a small kingdom in a place called Dorwinion along with humans, but it's not 100% cannon. Still, they were too far to help and would probably be dealing with Rhûn and Khand (another corrupted human faction). The last elves Tolkien spoke of are the dark elves, the ones in the far east. Nothing is known about them, only that they never saw Valinor or the light of the Trees. Also, when elves die, they resurrect in Valinor.
That battle was EPIC!! Legolas and Gimli duo are hilarious!!
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Legolas and Gimli are friendship goals ❤️
Sam’s speech at the end being cut from the UA-cam edit 😢. When I was younger I thought frodos storyline was meh and focused on Aragorn Gandalf and Legolas. As I get older though, my favs have become Sam, Frodo, and Gollum. The heart of the story and its message lies with them
Grima Wormtail was emotional, because he was in a state of awe, not expecting Saruman to be able to raise such a huge army.
He was simply overwhelmed with emotion at what was to follow.
Whole LotR love ❤
Great little intro talk, you are really letting it in your hearts :)
Be sure to listen to Gollum’s Song which is in the end credits of The Two Towers. So sad!
The reason why CGI of battle of the Helms Deep looks so good after 20 years is that there is not that much CGI in it. There were hundreds of extras and stunt performers and it took them 4 months to shoot that battle.
The best looking method of CGI always remains compositing. Using parts from different images and pasting them together.
They had a giant model of the fortress, a good number of orcs in fully detailed costumes to stand in the foreground, and lower detail computer rendered orcs to fill out the background where you can't really see much of them anyway.
Put the three together into the same image and adjust the color to match (making everything dark blue makes that much easier), and you will have shots that would be impossible to film for real but still look almost just as good.
Exactly, plus 2 or 3 miniatures of the fortress at scale for wide shots
Exactly. But it's not only about Helms Deep, it applies to all LOTR. In many places where people think it was CGI, PJ had real actors.
Many of the people who worked on the battle got shirts that said "I survived Helm's Deep"
Indeed
The MASSIVE scale shots of the entire armies definitely incorporate some CGI, but it's done cleverly, from a distance where the fidelity doesn't matter too much.
Again clever planning and skillfull compositing are BIG BIG contributers to the quality of these effects
One of my favorite tiny details is when Aragorn hugs Haldir: elves are notoriously non-touchy people--one of the greatest signs of love in their culture is touching their own heart. Aragorn, who was raised by Elrond in Rivendel alongside elves, is one of the most physically affectionate men in the series. This implies that Elrond went out of his way to ensure young Aragorn was comfortable with his human nature to the point where he feels safe offering an embrace to anyone, even his elvish friends. I personally like to imagine Elrond encouraging him to give and receive hugs as a child and ensuring he got healthy physical contact that is so important for growing humans.
Probably helps that Rivendell was the place for those who are half elves and half men, like Elrond himself. Interesting how the human side comes out
That's beautiful. But that means he touched a lot of elves as a kid learning to hug. I hope they didn't get annoyed lol
Also elves would go crazy if they visited and made friends in most Mediterranean cultures.
@@praetorian3902since elves live thousands of years, I think the few years they spent with Aragorn could be compared to a normal human's "vacation week with the touchy friend"
@@lauMiciaT Hmm I see what you mean but I don't think 1 minute passes faster for elves than for humans.
Now on a comedic note, if you're don't wanna be touched and a guy touches you for 1 year, logically that 1 year is gonna feel like 2 years not the other way around lol. Time is flying only when you're having fun :p
@@Livelongwforce half elves and half men are men. Only Elrond family can chose being man or elve. And only Elrond is "half".
Some 20 years ago, I met a guy at a gaming convention here in Sweden. He wore a black t-shirt with the text "I survived Helm's Deep - Uruk-hai battalion". It turned out he had been hired to do some IT stuff for the production. When the movie people learned that he was also a LARPer (live action role-player), knowing how to fight and move in armor, he was hired as an extra. He played roles like a Rider of Rohan, and also (obviously) an Uruk-hai.
That shirt is such a trophy
Although most Larpers don't really know how to fight or how to move in armor. Most of them just do it for the fun and don't practice with actual fighting manuals or whatever. Reenactors would know that kind of stuff.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_ParteiHEMA Larpers are pretty common in New Zealand
I thought I remembered from the dvd extras that they were handed out after the shoot, by the producers/director because they DID survive Helm's Deep - the months of night shoots, in rain and cold, with injuries and illnesses aplenty, they wanted to acknowledge their work, dedication, commitment, and sacrifices.
I would be buried in that shirt if I earned owning it.
Kinda sad that you edited out Sam's speech to Frodo after Sam stops him from putting the ring on in front of the Nazgul. "There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for." Most iconic line in the movie IMO.
I hate what Jackson does to Frodo's character though. Book Frodo never did that, and Sam didn't have to save him every 5 minutes. Neither did Frodo ever attack Sam with Sting or believe Gollum over Sam and send Sam away. And he and Sam were never in Osgiliath either, because Faramir never dragged them there ...he wasn't tempted by the Ring in the book.
Sam is awesome - obviously- but PJ gave him an eloquent speech (partly based on the book) and took away all of Frodo's eloquence.
@@philippalinton5850 Regardless of the book, in the context of the film alone the speech is important.
@@philippalinton5850you know they haven't seen third movie now right? Maybe i'm wrong if they already released it on Patreon, but please, be careful about spoilers.
@@philippalinton5850Sam did have to save frodo every 5 minutes.
@@swampfaye If you've read the book, you'll know that's not the case. For example, Book Frodo is the only hobbit who resists the Witch King at Weathertop, he stabs at him with his sword - the other hobbits are too scared to move, including Sam.
In the later stages of the Quest, Frodo absolutely could not have survived without Sam. But he is not a constant damsel in distress the way the films paint him as. Book Frodo is often stern and challenging towards Gollum, he's never manipulated by him. Book Frodo stands up to Faramir and wins his respect.
Fun Fact: Tolkien and CS Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia) were best friends, and each created a character based on the other for their books. Professor Diggery from 'The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe' was Lewis' creation based on Tolkien, and Treebeard was based on Lewis. 😎👍
I knew they had been good friends, but I never knew they modeled those characters after each other. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing.
Lewis actually dedicated his book "The screwtape letters" (unrelated to Narnia) to Tolkien. I don't know if Tolkien did the reverse.
That is so cute!
Two greatest among the greatest authors ever. What a blissful experience would have been sitting with them just listening.
The Professor, Digory Kirke, seems to be more modeled on Lewis himself. Lewis lost his mother to cancer at the same age as Digory in The Magician's Nephew and was a professor who took in children evacuated from London during World War II like in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Lewis' character that seems most like Tolkien is Elwin Ransom, the everyman hero and main character in his Space Trilogy. Ransom is a professor and a philologist like Tolkien was and he has a great aptitude for figuring out the Malacandrian (i.e. Martian) language. Ransom's also a Christian, and Tolkien was one of the main people who helped convince Lewis to become a Christian so Lewis of course associated him with that.
It's so sad to me that the last thing Haldir sees as he is dying in Aragorn's arms is just a massive amount of dead Elves. There are so few of them left in Middle-Earth anymore that the destruction of almost his entire force must be a significant part of their population. And to boot, elves have been leaving; these guys gave up their chance to cross the sea and go home to their equivalent of heaven and instead sacrificed their lives in the stone and mud to give the race of Men a fighting chance.
Very true and noble ! But to be fair their spirits go back to the Halls of Mandos and it’s most likely they’re reincarnated in their physical bodies back in the realm of Valinor, where the elves are leaving to anyways
@fastpies4444 The common orcs were poor fighters and a human soldier could easily account for a lot of them. Their advantages were endurance and an ability to subsist on pretty much the most rancid conditions. An orc could march for days without rest (as long as you had somebody keeping the scum moving, left to their own devices they're lazy). Uruk-hai are the improved breed of orc (developed by Sauron, not Saruman as depicted in the movies) being taller, stronger, and able to endure the sunlight (they don't like it, mind, but can still function in it unlike a normal orc who is pretty much as befuddled as a bat dragged out of its cave at noon). If we look at the books, the uruk-hai aren't so easily overcome (Ugluk fights so well that Eomer pays the brute the unusual compliment of dismounting and fighting him in single combat) - they're certainly not the kind of savage, undisciplined, nasty vermin that an average soldier could account for several of them easily. Having said that - c'mon, an elf has hundreds if not thousands of years of training and experience behind him. Unless completely overwhelmed, an elf should be able to make short work of anybody, be they orc, man, or dwarf. You have to use tricks to defeat elves unless you have the sheer numbers to drown them in blood. That wasn't really how the movie depicted the fight. In the books, of course, it is the Grey Company who shows up - the Dunedain rangers of the north. The only other elves involved are Elrond's twin sons (both of whom survive). Of course Saruman's army was more of a disorganized horde as well, with lots of human Dunlendings, common orcs, and half-orcs taking part in the fighting. The surviving Dunlendings were spared by Theoden when they surrendred while at least a part of Saruman's army escaped and tried to join up with the hosts of Mordor at the Battle of the Pellinor Fields.
Statistics don't matter to the individual... anyone can beat anyone in battle no matter who is technically superior.
>Go to war
>Die gloriously
>Wake up in Mandos
>Immediately given body back due to valiance in dying
>Greet all your friends and family who already went to Valinor
>WTF I love dying now?!?!
In the books it was not elves, but men who joined them
The army Gandalf brought were the Rohirrim, the actual warriors of Rohan. They were the ones Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli met when they were looking for Merry and Pippin. Grima used the corrupted Theoden to banish them, which is why they had to resort to having under-and over-aged people to fight in helms deep. Gandalf rode out to find them again and tell them that Theoden's mind had been restored.
They also were the scattered remaining forces of the Westfold
Sorry, but that isn't strictly correct. Certainly not in terms of the books (which take precedence for me). Gandalf had headed west to the area around the Ford's of Isen and gathered up the scattered remnants of Théodred and Erkenbrand's forces. It was the survivors of the battle in which Theoden's son perished that Gandalf returned with. It may well have contained Eómer's Eotheod in the film for cinematic reasons, seeing as in the books Eómer is actually at Helms Deep all along. The banishing of Eómer is merely a cinematic macguffin. In the books Eómer is merely imprisoned at Meduseld and released once Gandalf has dealt with Saruman and Grìma. Eómer then rides with Théoden to the Hornburg.
@@markstott6689 he didn’t do that alone though since Erkenbrand was already busy with that.
@@markstott6689 this is one of those changes from the book that I really prefer in the movies.
@@DutchDread Yeah, in scriptwriting you want to avoid having a new character do one heroic thing and then completely disappear from the story. It's why Arwen replaces Glorfindel, and Eomer replaces Erkenbrand. It's fine in a book, less so on film.
Fun fact: the battle of helms deep is considered a masterclass in battle cinematography; it perfectly explains where everyone is, the ebbs and flows of the battle, the stakes, and keeps a strong story-progressing narrative without over narrating or ruining the pacing
And you can see what's happening in a night battle!
Though with some oddities. Like Aragon jumping down with a ladder that for some reason ended up on the inside of the Deeping Wall.
@@Golladan Nah I can understand that. Even from the inside, you still have people in the walls shooting and fighting and only a small stair to reach them from the back, so pull they brought more stairs to get them. Even from behind, walls are still strong defensive positions.
It also mostly follows the Shot-Reverse Shot rule.
The camera is almost always looking into the valley from the Northeast or the Southeast.
The only time I can think of where the camera is on the West side is when Aragorn and Gimli sneak out through the small door on the tower, because you can't see it from the East.
Probably the best battle in any movie for the reasons you said, along with Saving Private Ryan's intro and maybe Return of the Jedi's space battle. Any other nominations?
The fact that this movie still looks so damn good even today is incredible. The miniature work, practical effects, and smart CGI make it timeless.
i find it funny when the first avatar movie came out everyone was praising the motion capture suit technology xD did people know the same technology was used for gollum in the 2000s? 😂
@@Jibril_UwUpeople know that but the two aren't exactly the same. Avatar was a whole film captured seamlessly. Gollum was one character, and one that had more than a few shots where the ambient lighting wasn't quite perfectly matched to the rest of the scene around him.
It's like saying why are people hyped for the ps5, don't they know the playstation came out in the 90s
It's really hard to believe that the Star Wars prequels, which came out around the same time had 30 million more in their budgets but their special effects have mostly aged like milk.
Helm’s Deep stands in a class of its own in terms of siege battle cinematography. From the establishing shots, to the music, to the character moments, to the battle progression: it really is nothing like anything before or since. There are so many layers and stories within stories. I love it.
Except for the lighting at 44:02, especially on Ian Mckellen. I always wondered why it's so janky compared to the rest of the film.
After all these years, I finally noticed in the closing scene Sam says, "Gollum," while Frodo calls for, "Smeagol." Like each of them was manifesting what they saw in him as the internal conflict was happening just out of their sight...
Interesting! I'd actually seen it almost the other way. Just a bit earlier, Sam explained to Gollum that Frodo tried to save him, and when Gollum says no hard feelings, its one of the forst time Sam calls him by his name (granted it's Gollum), instead of Stinker. So he's not calling him nicknames here, he's using one of his names since he's starting to see a bit of good in him.
Gandalf is a Maiar, when he charges there, his battlecry "buffs" the men around him, giving them courage and removing all fear and doubt. On the other hand it actually "de-buffs" the uruk hai, making them disoriented and break formation. Its actually magic, but there are rules. He can't involve himself too much, he can help, but he can't go all out, because this isn't his fight.
Against the Balrog he actually went full out because he is the master of the white flame, a Balrog is basically a mortal enemy to him and what he represents.
Exactly. And the ring of fire that moved from Círdan directly to the hand of Gandalf. One of few who understood his nature and full purpose via great insight and foresight. It played a huge role in everything. ❤
Note too about Arien the Maia who forever escorts the sun after casting aside her physical raiment. She was supporting him from behind. See. The Maiar never left and I’m sure more nameless ones still wander middle earth!
The Balrog was also a sibling Gandalf’s known for eons long before that Balrog form was taken through Morgoth. So he was fighting a sibling he has known for so long. Which is as sad as it is Poetic. Oh. And they teamed up temporarily after the fall to fight the nameless things. It’s in the books.
Amazing
No wonder that when he went full out his physical form couldn't stand the damage.
Andy Serkis is an absolute master actor in his portrayal of Smeagól and Gollum. He manages to make you care so much and it makes so much more sense why Bilbo chose to spare him. He is just as much a victim of his circumstances as Frodo. Really love this movie!
andy serkis also voices the orc that gets decapitated when the uruk says " looks like we got meat back on our menu, boys" in the previous part
@@virtualecho2222 - for real? :D I never knew! But now that you point it out that makes perfect sense!
They released new editions of the audiobooks read by Serkis. His narration is phenomenal.
@@jasonthedave6140 this comment thread is the gift that keeps giving! Thank you! I will check that out ASAP!
@@GenomeSoldierDK would say his narration is top tier and i want every audiobook ever to be read by him!
Just to say: the reason Wormtongue was crying when he saw the army was simply because he didn't realise the SCALE of what was happening.
He was a greedy, slimy little rat of a person, who manipulated Theoden into serving him and had fun with it. Then he lost everything and got thrown out of Rohan, so turned and ran to Rohan's enemy (Saruman, who he was working for the entire time) and basically spilled his guts, selling out all of Rohan for the sake of petty revenge.
It's only when he sees Saruman's army that the weight of what's happening actually hits him: he's just sentenced all of Rohan to DEATH. Wormtongue was slimy and selfish, but he wasn't PURE EVIL, he was just greedy and pathetic. In being so pathetic, he sold out his own people for the sake of revenge, and when seeing Saruman's army, suddenly realises what a terrible thing he's just done.
Was it revenge? Or the lure of a HUGE reward and the woman he loves?
Read the books a lot and rewatched the movies 20x. I always thought Wormtongue was crying because how beautiful and big the army was. But you make a better point, have to read the books again 😂
I always took the tears as a "what have I done" moment@@TheKillingBean
He was also a man of Rohan, as well as having feelings for Eowyn which he assumes will die.
Faramir is pupil of Gandalf and Grima is pupil of Saruman. Grima was cooler in the books.
Faramir resisted the temptation of the Ring in the books and set them free from the cave. The way he was treated in the movies rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Faramir was wiser and purer of heart than Boromir, while Boromir was the stronger leader and warrior.
That's why Pippin and Faramir got along so well I think
I think Gandalf said, in the books, that faramir was the best of all men.
My favourite book character along with Gandalf and Frodo..I always wondered why Peter Jackson treated Faramir like that...Just to add to the drama???
@@swampfayeAnd he was in the movies too, he did resist the ring. It wasn't the ring that tempted him it was his father, whom he defied in the end.
imo they showed Faramir resist the ring in the movie. He just had to understand why it was better not to send it to his father, I don't think he immediately understood it's power.
The Osgiliath flashback not being in the theatrical cut of the film really does seem mental in hindsight, because the context does makes both Boromir and Faramir's motivations so much more sympathetic rather than just obstacles.
spot on
at the same time it ruins the flow. Suddenly a random long af flashback showing up when all the other movies are flashback-less. Except for some short dreams here and there
@@joe.banana I think people worry too much about "flow". Audiences generally have a better attention-span than people give them credit for, and will be able to follow storylines without having to be led on a leash from scene to scene. In my experience almost every time important plot and character explaination are cut for the sake of flow the end result seem to considered worse by basically everyone except a small group of film-hobbyists and critics who have a preset idea of what good "flow" is supposed to look like.
The theatrical cut of Alien3 vs the assembly cut is a good example. Prometheus from the same series was mainly critizised for having characters people didn't care about who did stupid things for no reason, and this was the result of them cutting out most of the scenes that made you understand and sympathize with those characters, and that explained their actions, just to give the film as tight pacing and flow as possible.
@@joe.banana on the contrary I think it makes the flow of the movie better
@@joe.banana Well, it did not ruin my flow at all. I enjoyed it immensely.
That little sting of music when Eowyn hears that Aragorn has fallen is in Old English, roughly translated it says "So used was she to feeling the spirits sink, she had not heard her heart's own wish"
The music of Rohan has lyrics in old English, and it's great.
The books had huge amounts of poems and songs in them, that make the world feel lived-in and give a feeling for cultures, and a lot of them were incorporated into the soundtrack.
Gondor is a country, the battle took place in a city called Osgiliath, and it's right on the edge of the territory Gondor can still hold. The White City, capitol of Gondor, is called Minas Tirith.
Minas Tirith must be hell for bikers by the way... 🤔
Every time I rewatch these movies I learn something new. You've opened up yet another minor detail that adds that much more depth to the story, what a beautiful quote. Thank you.
40:46 - "I feel like weve outnumbered them, but it's almost too good to be true." Tolkien actually coined a term called "Eucatastrophe" from the Greek "Eu" meaning "good" and catastrophe, a sudden turn, to explain the feeling here. Literally all hope lost, then suddenly Gandalf shows up with the Rohirrim, the Ents march on Isengard, Frodo and Sam set free by Faramir. It's a theme common in the books and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.
Every sad thing is made untrue. :’)
25:09 In this scene, Theoden is full of emotion, both fear and anger, and when he stops short saying "Where was Gon...." and looks away, you can see in his eyes that he is stopping himself from saying something. He was about to delve too deep into his own pain. He was about to say "Where was Gondor when my son was slain?"
Stop me if I'm wrong, but Theoden's mother was from Gondor as well. He's likely viewing their lack of support as the ultimate personal betrayal.
I reckon part of why Aragorn stands out as a character, is how committed Viggo Mortensen was to the role. He really went all in. He was the one main actor that all the stunt folks wanted to do scenes with. A key part of their job, is that they can go nuts on each other, but the main actors must not be injured. Viggo made it very clear early on, that he wanted no special treatment. He'd meet them physically. He was "one of them" during this whole production. He bought the horse he bonded with, and stables it in New Zealand.
It's funny how Sparta's Hero Boner sees him interpreting everything as "Aragorn taking up his role in uniting the Realm". Aragorn is this movie's Jon Snow...
He also bought the horse that the stunt double for Arwen rode in the first movie and gave it to her because she really cared for that horse but couldn't afford to buy it herself.
@sifumagoo1776 Viggo took the role and elevated himself into the kingdom of eternal fandom.
aragorn vrs his character in greenbook are just a perfect blend. viggo is the goat for life now.
He was also the only one of the main actors who used a steel sword rather than an aluminum and rubber prop! Viggo was even called "the best swordsman I've ever trained" by the sets sword master.
He insisted that Aragorn should carry his knife, because "as a ranger he's accustomed to living in the wilderness and hunting for sustenance, and he wouldn't skin and clean game with his sword". Small thing, but it really shows how much he tried to understand the character as more than just "the hero".
"The Ents are going to war. It is likely that we go to our doom. The last march of the Ents."
This is one of the most underrated lines in the whole 3 movies for me. The Ents truly believe that they are going to die and get extinct, but they choose to go nonetheless because it is the right thing to do.
My favorite scene in the whole trilogy, it never fails to get me emocional!
Talking about listening to dialogue, the very first thing Gandalf said to Frodo in the opening movie is..." A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early, He arrives precisely when he means to"
This is why when Gandalf said he is going to be somewhere at a certain time...he generally turns up. ( When he's not being kidnapped by Saruman that is! )
Just like toward the east of Helms Deep, at first light of the 5th day
I have a ton of info so I will try to be brief:
1. There are hours of behind the scenes footage that you should 100% watch after you are done. The sheer scale of what went into making these movies is almost incomprehensible.
2. Any chance they had, the production team tried to use practical effects. The only CGI in these movies comes when they literally couldn't do it practically. Trolls, the Balrog, Gollum, etc. are CGI. Explosions, all of Rohan and the horses, size differences in characters, those are all practical.
3. You've mentioned the music multiple times. It's way better than most people realize. Every race was given a theme. Hobbits get a light/happy tune, orcs get forboding/driving, Rohan gets a nomad feel. But then it's taken a step further and every race gets exclusive instruments the themes are played on. Hobbits get woodwinds, Rohan gets violins, orcs are deep horns, etc. When scenes that are exclusively one race appear on screen, these instruments tell you subconsciously who the scene is about without ever seeing the race or characters. One important aspect to listen for in the third film: Anytime you hear vocal choruses or chants something spiritual is happening.
4. Theoden has the best character arc in the trilogy. Remember what happened in this movie and watch out for it in the third.
It’s subtle, but it’s not just “dishonor” that makes Legolas concerned. He’s an immortal elf from Mirkwood. These past two movies, he’s been experiencing death of others on a mass scale, for the first time in his life. He’s got a lot on his mind.
First ever death of a man was witnessed by Finrod Felagund, discovered mankind and befriended the greatest of the three houses of the Edain. And became best friends with the head honcho and his death was a very long drawn out thing for him to lose his friend for practical eternity. At least until dagor dagorath. Finrod is also the eldest brother of Galadriel. They’re very close too ❤
Didn't he see a lot of death during the war in the Hobbit series? Or was that something the movies added arbitrarily? *(haven't read any of the source material)
@@watchthis8Othe Hobbit never explicitly mentions Legolas being present (which makes sense, as I don’t think Tolkien had conceived of him as a character yet), but it makes sense that he would’ve been there. Then again, perhaps he was tasked with protecting the realm while Thranduil was gone.
@@watchthis8O Legolas being in the Hobbit movies is completely added, he isn't there in the book, so it really could be his first time witnessing so many deaths
Lmao Legolas had 100% seen battle and death before the events of lotr.
The coolness of Legolas in the movies inspired probably millions of elf archers in multiplayer video games
The coolness of Legolas in the books inspired millions of elf archers in D&D.. :D (and likewise with Aragorn/Rangers)
@@darthvegan435 Yeah, elf archer is a very old trope and it's because Legolas from the books.
15:05 Bascially, Grima thought Saruman would take over Rohan, and leave him in place as Chief Stooge. He's just now realising that Saruman means to destroy Rohan, which would leave Grima with just ash and bones to rule over.
I always thought it was probably like a tear in awe of the magnitude of the army
i always thought, that he loved Eowyn; this huge army would not only destroy mankind, but also kill her.
@@midtwilightblue Not a chance. That's a look of terror and guilt. Grima had no idea the scale of destruction Saruman both planned and was capable of. He's like so many Quislings during the War who thought they could work with the Nazis and didn't know the degree to which they sold out their own people in order to grasp some scraps of power for themselves.
@@midtwilightblue absolutely.
@@Carandini I think its a mix of all those feelings
no one has said this yet but TREEBEARD IS VOICED BY JOHN RHYS DAVIES WHO IS GIMLI. the fact that he voices one of the shortest and also the tallest being in the trilogy is peak. they also created the 'gravel' sound by having john read his lines through a wooden mic of sorts.
John Rhys Davies also has said for Treebeard is he would speak when inhaling instead of when exhaling.
After all these years, I not long ago realized that he is the voice of Man Ray on SpongeBob 😅
Nice man that's one thing I did not know. ^^
I wrote this in the coments of the last video, but here is my like for your comment, Spudgey and Spartan have to read this.
Saludos desde México.
He is also literally the tallest actor in the fellowship, at 6'1". None of the others are over 6 feet.
Watching the Helms Deep battle in the cinema was frickin epic.
so sad i was 2 when it came out lol
hahaha they missed out
I was about 10-11 when I saw it in the cinema. One of the most epic things I’ve ever seen
You lucky son-of-a-gun
YES IT WAS INDEED!👌 I saw it twice back to back and both times were AWESOME!👍🏻
As to where the riders of Rohan come from, in the movie Gandalf just went and found Éomer and his troops. In the books, the situation in the land is very different. There are constant skirmishes with orcs everywhere in the mark, while the corrupted king Théoden sits on his throne doing nothing. The military force of Rohan is spread thin, divided into many small battle groups. When Gandalf lifts Théoden's corruption, Èomer is pardoned immediately and actually fights with them from the beginning at Helm's Deep. He actually has a really cool bro type relationship to our orc hunting trio in the books that doesn't really come across on screen. All they can muster though is a remnant of the Edoras garrison and whatever fighting men have found their way to the fortress already.
Gandalf spends day and night riding across the Riddermark, gathering all splintered soldiers of Rohan he can find that are still in fighting shape, and unites them under the banner of Erkenbrand of Westfold, a noble of Rohan who didn't make it into the movies. They end up leading the final charge to win Helm's Deep in the book.
Also worth mentioning that in the books Uruk Hai are only a part of Sarumans army which also includes humans, normal orcs and orcish humans, there's a good passage of Aragorn exchanging words with the attackers
They come from everywhere in Rohan. I don't know why people get hung up on this. Gandalf's mission was to get reinforcements.
Watcthing the battle of Helms Deep really makes you appreciate just a how AWFUL episode 8x03 of GOT really was. Helms deep is pure art, The Long Night is a visual fart.
who knew you could make a night fight scene and still clearly see what's going on.
And to think The Long Night came out almost 20 years after The Two Towers lmao
It wasn't just visually bad, it's also a narrative failure top to bottom. Like white paper what not to do.
Im so fucking glad I never got into GoT much, always saw it for the pretentious voyeuristic carnage fest it was
Lol, nice one
Whenever i think of The Long Night i get really sad. And not just because the episode was so shit, but because you can tell how much fucking Effort almost everyone involved put into it, the actors, the Setdesigners, the camera crew, the VFX team. All that time, work and effort, only to get ruined by fucked editing and shit writing. How 2-3 people can ruin the huge ammount of work done by the whole crew, fucking tragic :3 Same goes for The Bells and basically the entiretey of Season 8. What a waste man^^
If you guys want to get into the books which have a lot more detail they couldn’t fit in the movies and some things that were changed for the movies, then Andy Serkis who is the actor of Gollum, has voiced audiobooks for The LOTR, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion. He does the voices SO well, he’s really good at sounding like the movie actors, and gets you really engaged.
The extra focus on all the dead elves on the battlements at 34:45 is to truly make you appretiate the tragedy of those losses. Each and every one of those elves are hundreds if not thousands of years old. Can you imagine that? Thousands upon thousands of years of experiances, of light and music and art, whiped out in mere hours. This is possibly the greatest loss of elves since the battle of the last alliance that took down Sauron last time. It is the tragedy of an age, and yet there is no real time to focus on it, for it has only just begun.
@fastpies4444 So you people complain about Legolas and other elves being complete, cartoon level badasses, but then you also complain about elves dying in a battle.
You're one of the worst types of Tolkien fans.
@@HollowBagel I don’t recall ever complaining that elves died, I simply highlighted the tragedy that was each and every one of those losses. As for your other point I urge you to point out where I ever complained about Legolas skill or that of any elf for that part. If anything the existence of elves like Fingolfin prove that elves are canonically “cartoon level badass”, I take no issue with the fact.
@@spyling800 As you can see by the name, I replied to someone who deleted their comment. Not you.
The Hobbit is a wonderful backstory and explains how Bilbo found the ring, and a great opportunity to revisit Middle-Earth, which I loved. The Introduction is great and we see Bilbo as a younger hobbit played by Martin Freeman to perfection. I think it really does a good job of showing what the dwarves were struggling with. This includes Gimli's father Gloin and Gimli's cousin Balin whose tomb Gimli found in Moria, as well as many other dwarves who are great fun getting to know.
Unfortunately Peter Jackson wasn't given the time to develop it in the same way as LOTR. Additionally he was pressured to make what was originally a single volume and essentially a story for his children's amusement into an "epic" of similar proportions as LOTR. CGI had developed much further when this movie was made and in my opinion was over used. Additionally a significant amount of "padding" was added in order to turn this into a trilogy where in my opinion two movies would have been more than sufficient. On the upside there is a reprieve of Gandalf the Grey, Elrond, Legolas, Saruman and Galadriel, which is very nice. The dragon Smaug is wonderful, and overall I enjoyed these movies. They are definitely not the same caliber as LOTR but still fun in my opinion and worth reacting to. I would enjoy seeing your reaction if you decided to watch them and I'm very much looking forward to your reaction to The Return of the King. Cheers!
"The Hobbit" movies have a reputation as being bad movies, but I strongly disagree with that notion. Yes, there are flaws, and as you've said, they're not the same caliber of movies as Lord of the Rings. But my lord, movies can be a LOT worse than Lord of the Rings, and still be absolutely amazing movies. If we're calling any movies that are worse than Lord of the Rings "bad" then oh boy, the world has practically only ever produced bad movies...
In the end, what the Hobbit movies did "right" for me, was take me back to Middle Earth. It still has the gorgeous landscapes, the amazing music, the incredible acting. Watching The Hobbit still gives me that same feeling that watching Lord of the Rings does. That feeling of coming home. Having said that, I agree with every criticism of the movies you've outlined here.
I feel like, if the Hobbit movies could talk, they would say "Well, EXCUSE US for not being as good as one of the greatest classics in the history of cinema..."
@@jeroenstolp9889 That is so true
For me the sheer amount of awful CGI in the Hobbit trilogy just killed any immersion for me. Very very tough watch.
@@jamesnewham7125 yeah I especially missed the individual live-action orcs but also I try to remember that they really didn´t have much time to prepare and film them as opposed to lotr so I try to look past that. Also Smaug was a real treat and the CGI was maybe not perfect in general but still solid enough and the actors brought so much life into these sometimes practically blank-slate characters that I can´t help but love the hobbit movies for that alone :>
That Aragorn death fakeout is such a weird creative choice. It's not in the book, and even people who had never read them like me weren't fooled for a second that this hugely important character would just be randomly killed off like that. It also didn't help that we hadn't yet seen the shot of him marching through the Helm's Deep gate that was in all the ads.
It is pretty weird when you think about it, because it doesn't add anything aside from seeing his friends reactions to his 'death', and his loving horse. Maybe he was originally going to go on some side adventure stuff but they had to cut it? With such a long runtime they could have easily cut out that whole section and I don't think you lose much.
@@Jigsawn2i think narratively it's also for Aragorn to get to be the one to tell Theoden about the coming army
@@silver9wolf6Which is also a negative change from the book; in the book Theoden doesn't immediately run away to Helm's Deep, he _does_ go out to do battle with Saruman's army, and only retreats to Helm's Deep _after_ realising how big it is. In the film, it's pretty ridiculous because the small raiding bands that we've seen _before_ the big army wouldn't be able to threaten Edoras, which is already pretty defensible. There would be no point in retreating.
This film in a big cinema was an incredible experience, the battle of helms deep was like being assaulted for an hour. If anyone gets the chance to watch this trilogy on the big screen I highly recommend it, the sound alone is incredible. The Balrog scene from Fellowship was also absolutely insane at the cinema!
Pelennor Fields battle in the cinema, OMG! I still remember getting goosebumps!
they are bringing them back in my local cinema as a special event and I am so happy because I was a bit young last time! :D
My theater just recently did a full extended version marathon. All three movies back-to-back. We were at the theater for 12 hrs 😂😂 But it was SO worth it. Seeing them again on the big screen was so cool. I’ll never forget the return of the king premier night. The theater had more people than seats. Back when seats weren’t assigned. There were people sitting on the stairs but no one minded. Such an amazing experience.
@@twilightrhapsodist man that’s awesome, jealous!
When Battle of the Bastards came out, people said it was better than Helm's Deep. Time proved them wrong.
Damn. That hits different.
Well, I wouldn’t say time proved them wrong, as the battle of the bastards is still as good now as it was when it came out (nothing about it changed; only the show after it wasn’t good).
Instead, I’d just say that they were wrong to begin with. BotB was good, but it never was a Helm’s Deep. In fact, even the brutal collision of riders we saw at the beginning of BotB that everyone praised (rightly so, imo) was also done in Two Towers, when the Rohirrim fought off the warg riders.
BotB is good but there's a lot about it that's questionable. It comes nowhere near to the quality of Helm's Deep.
Like Jon being able to knock a guy backwards off his horse with his sword... physically impossible, breaks my immersion immediately. Massive wall of bodies just spontaneously forming on the battlefield? Also not gonna happen. Not giving the giant any weapons? STUPID.
No, that was before the long night episode came out. Producers were hyping up the long night battle it had nothing to do with the BoB
It’s hard to have a favorite film because it’s one 12 hour long movie. The graphics still hold after 20 years because the director used miniatures. The making of LOTR documentary will blow your mind! Also, pay attention to Sméagol/Gollum’s eyes… they dilate when he changes personalities.
Yeah, so the language of the Ents is interesting. For example, a thing's name grows as it gets older. Treebeard's actual name, spoken in Entish, would take like a week to say. He allows other races to call him Treebeard or Fangorn out of courtesy and consideration for them.
I always found that super interesting and I related to Treebeard more than any character in the books. I feel he might have helped represent the linguistic master that was Tolkien, but some people have claimed he based his character on CS Lewis who used to hoom and hum to himself a lot and pontificate about linguistics.
Oh my god this movie has so much brilliant acting. Doesn't matter how many times I watch it. One of my favourites when Grima (Brad Dourif) just see Saruman's army and that tear from his eye shows that he realized the weight of his betrayal, and his fear. Brilliant!
I freakin LOVE Brad Dourif. Excellent in everything I've seen him in.
I always connected Grima's tears to that he felt responsible for the doom of men.
He never would have imagined that Saruman would go to such length as he did.
I think when Grima tears up it's because he truly realizes what he has done and thinks that he has doomed his own people. He wanted high status and to have their admiration and rule them, he didn't want them annihilated.
The point about the elves is that they have been leaving Middle Earth for years. There are many factions of elves throughout Middle Earth but basically, the elves know that their time has passed and are slowly leaving Middle Earth to allow for the rule of men. In the film, Galadriel sent several of her own troops to help defend Helm’s Deep (this doesn’t happen in the book). The point about Haldir saying “I bring word from Elrond of Rivendell” is more to pay homage to the fact that Elrond was there during the Battle of the Last Alliance.
Elrond and Galadriel had often some kind of telepathic contact, so Elrond could have sent the message to Theoden through her and Haldir, her warrior.
Keep in mind that Galadriel and Elrond share a family connection too. Galadriel is Elrond's mother-in-law, and Arwen's grandmother.
Fun fact, in the cast commentary they mention that Arwen was actually originally at the Battle of Helm's Deep. They even painted her out of a scene!
They did a great job in this movie in giving Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas individual realtionships to each other that elevates their dynamics as a team. You get little moments that show how Aragorn and Legolas know each other from way back and are good friends, and how Legolas respects Aragorn a lot, and they also show the friendly rivalry and friendship that has developed between Legolas and Gimli, who only just met in Rivendell last movie, and how much affection Gimli has for Aragorn, like in that scene where he arrives at Helm's Deep after Brego finds him and Gimli's all fatherly and scolds him for being reckless before hugging him and telling him "Bless you, laddie" because he made it out alive, and then later not only allows Aragorn to toss him across a pit but actually asks him to do so, though he still requests that Legolas doesn't find out it happened. Those guys are top tier.
Make sure you have a few boxes of tissues for the final film. I've never cried so much, at so many different scenes, in any film ever. And I was in tears throughout the last 20 minutes. It's cinematic perfection!
And then you can read the Appendices at the back of RotK and discover what became of each member of the Fellowship. :)
Your take on Gandalf at the beginning is actually pretty good. In the books, Tolkien describes him in his reborn form as being somehow both more intimidating and alien and yet more comforting and personal. And since the Ishtari (wizards) are stand-ins for angelic figures from Christianity, that is a pretty appropriate description.
That shot of of Gandalf leading the charge of the Riders of Rohan down the hill is the definition of epic.
Nice reaction - can you imagine what it was like to spend all year waiting for this, and then get knocked over by this movie, and then sit around waiting for another year? People were going crazy w the anticipation - it's hard to describe what kind of experience it was those three years when these films came out - and for those of us familiar w the material, it was like Gandalf arriving at Bilbo's in the first movie - it almost felt like coming home, or revisiting a long lost childhood
GOD DAMN THAT BATTLE WAS EPIC!! Gimli and Legolas are HILARIOUS
If you want the ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY UNCUT OR the EDITED Reaction to the next movie EARLY check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
😆 Some of us waited from Christmas 2002 to Christmas 2003 to find out who "she" is, unless of course, we read the books first.
I'm really enjoying your reactions to Jackson's retelling of my favorite story.
I won't try to explain what you just saw. Other viewers are doing that well.
Reading Tolkien's novels afterward will give you so much additional insight to the lore you see in these films. Reading "The Silmarillion" after that adds pretty much completes the universe Tolkien created (mostly, and sort of).
That said, with the movies you are watching, Peter Jackson presents a faithful, though not complete, presentation of Tolkien's novels.
The Hobbit trilogy by Jackson is definitely worth the watch. It sets the stage nicely these The Lord of the Rings films.
But if you don't have time for all that reading, you can find well done unabridged audio CD readings for Tolkien's novels. Perfect for a long road trip, or two!
Big thumbs up 👍 I watched you react to The Fellowship of the Ring Parts 1 and 2 last week, liked and subscribed, then The Two Towers Parts 1 and 2 this morning, then liked each. The bell notification brought me here this morning.
I love how Brego (the horse Aragorn said to release as he had seen enough war) rescues Aragorn from the riverside.. kneels so he can climb on.. and then ironically carries him into multiple subsequent battles..❤ always makes me tear up a bit..
Viggo bought Brego and kept him until the horse passed of old age..
I like that he made out with it thinking it's Liv Tyler.
King recognizes King
The horse they used was different from the one they originally planned for too. They wanted to train the horse to sit down next to Viggo lying on the floor so that he could grab onto it and hoist himself into the saddle, and for safety reasons started with a dummy. The original horse kept sitting on the dummy’s head, so they had to switch to another one, which Viggo eventually trained with himself (having it sit down next to him on the floor and all that)
@@jordinagel1184yes. That fact is quite an important one to note. But also a little hilarious when you think about it in the right light 😂
Lots of castles in “the real world” had little side doors for launching attacks from. Usually called “Sally ports” they were used to “Sally forth” and make counter attacks. The doors were small and easily defended, unlike the main gates of a caste which were large, and easier to bring troops to gear against.
Fun Fact: the Rain 🌧️ at beginning of the Battle at Helms Deep was 💯% natural rain 🌧️ for the entire prep work before the actual shoot it was confirmed numerous times of clear skies with no rain in the forecast... So they continued prepping for the shoot right up to the last minute before Peter Jackson yelled Action... An on que the REAL RAIN 🌧️ started to fall. So the reactions you see from everyone was real, they were not expecting ANY rain 🌧️☔ to fall... I love that...
One thing I don’t like is that Haldir, the leader of the troupe of elves that arrives at Helm’s Deep, only mentions Elrond and not Galadriel 🙄
I am glad Spartan noticed that these elves are from Lothlorien (where Galadriel rules) and not from Rivendell
He was paying homage to him and the last alliance whilst it was obvious to the three hunters where Haldir came from and his name means hidden hero so it makes sense to put him in the film. Still should have brought the Dúnedain rangers with them in the book to show them arriving as a team cut from the same cloth so to speak. In the books it apparently was no elves at all and I swore it was the Dúnedain instead. Either way it was a great way to visually show their thousands of years of sorrow in those scenes with Haldir at Helm’s Deep etc.
That and Rohan was superstitious about Lothlòrien. Calling it Dwimordene to the point where gimli and Gandalf got mad. Gandalf singing a little song about Lòriens! Gandalf’s Song Of Lòrien. There is a cover done out there that sounds literally like Gandalf singing it and their becomes a vocal duet too where there is a deeper female voice accompaniment. Vocal. Not verbal in this case. Feels like Galadriel !
@@Makkaru112- Iirc in the books Arwen's two brothers came with the Dunedain to Helm's Deep. All children of Elrond could choose if they wanted to be elves or humans, because Elrond was born of a mixed couple. Elrond chose to be an elf and his brother Elros to be human (he is actually Aragorn's ancestor, from thousand of years prior to the current time, that's why Elrond also cares about Aragorn's destiny, because it's his brother's line); Elrond's children can choose too.
I think it’s probably because Arwen was originally going to be with them and they actually filmed her Liv fighting at Helms deep before going back to something closer to the books
@@Makkaru112 Yup, it was Elrond's sons and the Grey Company, the Dúnedain (Aragorn's people, descending from Numenor as well).
Gandalf, and all the wizards, were sent to middle earth as advisors to inspire and unite the people in the fight against Sauron. The wizards were forbidden to use their true power in the fight. This is why he cannot just “use magic” to win a battle. He undoubtedly could, as he is a god-like angelic being in human form.
Which is why I get so annoyed when Saruman and Elrond argue about Sauron's return in The Hobbit. Dudes, the whole reason the wizards were sent was to prepare for his return.
I actually ended up see this movie before the first one. Story time:
My Dad had movie passes that were about to expire, and thought i had seen Fellowship for some reason, so asked if I wanted to go. I said yes, not caring about what we were seeing, just happy to go see a movie with Dad. The start time was printed wrong in the newspaper, so we got there late and missed the prolog, arriving just before Aragon's helmet kick. Watch the rest of the movie, pure magic of course.
After the movie:
Dad, to me: what did you think of the movie?
Me: it was great, thank you sooooo much! It was hard to understand what was going on at first; they really must have explained a lot during the part we missed. But the story's really good and the effects look great! I sure hope they make a second one!
Dad: ...wait? Haven't you see the first one?
Me: ...there's a first one?!?
And that's how my Dad and I watched one of the best movies ever made, both of us having no idea what was going on 😂
Best. Dad. Ever ❤❤❤
The other bit - the info Sam told Faramir, that Boromir had sworn an oath to protect Frodo, and then tried to kill him. I think that drove home - on top of the lapse and trying to take the ring, breaking his given word was just utterly unthinkable. Oaths to these guys aren't just light promises, they're genuine 'I will do this or die in the attempt' situations. That something could cause Boromir to go against that was horrifying.
For me the most important thing about these stories is that they were written by a man who’d survived world war 1. Frodo’s trauma in particular mirrors that - you can’t come back from it the same
27:28 In the book the big thing about this battle was that the men alone were able to win on their own, withouth other help I think. Cause the elves had their own battles to fight with orcs at their cities.
They had reinforcements before the battle, but if I remember right it was a company of their own men but no one was sure if they got the message or would have time to get there if they did.
Love these films! Seen them several hundred times (for real!). Me and my sister used to watch them almost daily for years.
I tattooed the quote from Sam "There's good in this world and it's worth fighting for" in elvish on my back.
When my sister died, I read the whole monologue on her funeral.
These movies changed my life ❤❤❤❤
In the book, the elves weren't at helms deep. They were fighting orcs in their own realms.
The Boromir flashback scene was on the extended cut and never shown in cinemas. And I think that is such a shame because it's one his best moments and it really shows a new side to Boromir. We see him before any corruption took place and we see that he is a great hero, a caring brother and a loyal son. But we also see what I think was implied in Fellowship but never shown, that he was never corrupted by the ring for selfish reasons. Most who are corrupted seek the ring for themselves, either so they can be powerful (like Isildur) or so they can just own a shiny trinket (smeagol.) But for Boromir he was loyal to his father. He was acting on his fathers wishes. And he claims in Fellowship he just wants "the strength to defend [his] people." And this scene really shows that his main focus is on the defence of Gondor. He would not have left the city of Osgiliath had his father not asked. I really believe he only cares about his people and it’s his father who corrupted him first, as his father is blinded by desire to own it for personal reasons. I also think it makes the Boromir death scene more impactful because for similar reasons, he has been so distrusting of Aragorn because his father who currently runs Gondor has probably corrupted him to believe that he is the rightful ruler. But its when the corruption of the ring leaves Boromir, that he realises that Aragorn is the true king and it’s in the best interest of Gondor and “his people” to have the rightful king return, rather than be led by a Steward.
Filming the battle of Helm's Deep was an epic undertaking. It took 3 weeks of night shoots in pouring fake rain. They built a full scale section of walls, quarter scale models, even smaller models. they blew things up, added 10k digital soldiers. And when Gimli sounds the horn of Helm Hammerhand and Theoden rides out... the theater is shaking with that sound and God it was epic. And it's nothing compared to what's coming.
So glad I found your channel guys, it's always a joy to see reactions to this masterpiece of a Trilogy for the first time.
The wizard colors are meant to portray the hierarchy and do symbolize their individual purposes. Gandalf turning white means that he was sent back as a replacement of Saruman who abandoned his original purpose of supporting and encouraging those in Middle Earth to fight against Sauron.
I love Legolas' and Gimli's friendship. When we first meet them, they show us how much they detest each other. And now a movie later they are best friends 😂
I love how Theoden says "For Death and Glory", and Aragorn responds with "For your people", as in, telling him to not fight for himself, for to fight in order to protect those he loves. Little moments like that show what a natural leader Aragorn is, and why the Rohirrim respected him and followed him into battle.
Bolomir scene was added via extended edition and was the best as it really emphasizes their family dynamic. The banter between Legolas and Gimli priceless. Loved playing the movie scenes in video games. One more to go!
This movie has always been so emotional to me. The first time I saw the end of the battle "when the horn of hammerhand sounds one last time" I was speechless. It brings up so much emotion I cant help but cry. The music is amazing, I also love the music in GOT 💚
Gollum gets me vote for greatest cinema character of all time. He is everything. He's hilarious, terrifying, creepy, adorable, tragic, and wonderful.
Smeagol-Gollum is one of the classic tragedies of literature.
Thank you so much for reviewing my favorite films, the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This has been my favorite trilogy since they were released. You can’t imagine how hard it was to wait a full year to see each one! I especially appreciate how impressed you are with the CGI that is now 20+ years old, and yet still holds up. You can’t imagine how groundbreaking it was for us seeing it back in the day. It was unlike anything we’ve ever seen before. Especially it’s important to remember that Gollum was one of the first fully CGI rendered major characters in a movie. He is a groundbreaking achievement, and the only way they were able to do such a phenomenal job with him is because of the actor who voiced him and also played him as a motion capture actor for placing Gollum in the scenes. That actor is Andy Serkis, and he has gone on to do numerous other voice acting and motion capture roles. He is amazing. If you have the time, you really owe it to yourself to watch the making of documentaries for each of these films. The work that went into every aspect of the movies is unbelievable, from the script, to the music, to the actors and the training went through, to the stunts, to the props, including armor and weapons, to the set design, to the wardrobe, to the locations. All of it was intended to make these cultures and places “real.” The dedication everyone involved showed is incredible. These movies were filmed, essentially back to back to back with relatively no break in between them, so that they could be released only one year apart. They are a massive achievement for everyone who worked on the films, and that has been reflected in the awards that all three of them were nominated for and won. It was believed for a long time that the Lord of the rings could never be made into a live action film. And that was actually true up until the technology especially the CGI caught up to a level to make Tolkien’s vision possible to put on film. I love watching people experience these movies for the first time because it reminds me again of seeing them for the first time in a crowded theater. Thank you again.
Gandalf advised Théoden to go to Helm's Deep in the books. The movie is really shuffling things around at times. Especially the spoken lines. 🙂
Ye.... Most of things I can forgive but not how they made Faramir be just like any other men. In books he let Frodo and Sam go even after he had change to get The Ring. But just like Aragorn he could let it go and sent hobbits on their way.
@@Daatistus The movies have attracted a generation to the world of Tolkien, that might not be into books at all. So on a metaphysical level of being alive in the minds of the many, it is perhaps best to think of it as an abstraction that serves as a cultural carrier. More than a faithful adaption. There was no overt malignant ideological purpose behind the changes, at least. Subconsciously perhaps some early tendencies still surfaced, because it seems inevitable. I am sure the professor himself would have detected how the times had already changed. Back when it was not so bad, from our perspective. At least Frodo... wait, that is a spoiler. But they wrote it on the walls, back in the ( Hippie ) days!
A quick look at the map shows that "evacuating" a column of civilians - TOWARDS Isengard - was catastrophically dumb. In general, Tolkien the ex-soldier showed an understanding of military matters Peter Jackson lacked. In the books, the civilian population, if it had to evacuate, would make for the refuge of Dunharrow to the south, high in the mountains at the head of a 20-mile valley the entrance to which was guarded by fortified Edoras.
In reality, Theoden rode out with all the Riders he could muster on short notice for the Fords, to try to remedy the situation created when his son's army was defeated there. It turned out to be too late (and nobody, not even Gandalf, anticipated the size of the invading force), so that he prudently turned aside to take up a defensive position at Helm's Deep, knowing that on the open plains Saruman's numbers would simply surround and overwhelm his small eored.
@@Daatistusfrom memory, he trusted in Gandalf's judgement.
I agree with you. Faramir was reduced in the movies.
You are finding out why these 3 films were nominated for 30 Oscars and won 17! Including best film!
So glad you know the names of the characters a lot better now. Looking forward to you watching the third one. It's the perfect ending to this story. It was nominated for 11 Oscars and it won all of them, including Best Picture and Best Director.
Sam’s speech at the end cut from the UA-cam edit 😢. I have to admit Frodo’s storyline once the fellowship split was my least fav when I was young. All the flash with the trio’s rohan/gondor storyline held my interest then. However, as I get older my favs have become: Sam, Frodo, and Gollum
As a book fan I hate what the films do to Frodo's character. Faramir never dragged him and Sam to Osgiliath, because Faramir was never tempted by the Ring. And Book Frodo never showed the Ring in front of a Nazgul in broad daylight and never attacked Sam with Sting. He was never fooled by Gollum or sent Sam away. He's so much braver, wiser and stronger in the book.
Makes me sad.
@@philippalinton5850 Honestly I am in general agreement but from a dramatic point of view it was a brilliant scene! I really loved the almost posessed look he gets and the scene with him attacking Sam was heart-breaking and really showed how far the Ring had already taken hold of him, which is something that is quite obvious when reading and harder to show in a movie. I think I would´ve liked a couple of scenes in the first movie to be different, the confrontation at weathertop and in khazad-dum for example, to show-case how he is now clearly losing peices of himself in this one.
As for Faramir, yes I have raged about that one before and I am now trying to come to terms with the fact that he was too perfect and they had to nerf him to get some kind of character-arc going. I find I quite like his character in the movie when I look at it from this perpective and also they got to show Osgiliath so viewers with no background knowledge know what the fuck people are talking about and that Gondor has been fighting Mordor for a good long while now
Gandalf and all the wizards of Middle Earth aren’t just guys who know magic… they are actually angelic beings known as Maiar or Maia (singular) Gandalf was always purely light, his color was more indicative of his rank and place in the order, just beneath Saruman and gray as in a traveling cloak. He was always moving and traveling in haste to undo the cause of evil and strengthen the cause of good.
Sauron was also a Maia but he was of a degree of power higher than any of the wizards.
47:13 in the books the elves were never there. Didn’t happen. But these elves in the movie are supposed to be a combination of Noldor elves from Rivendell sent by Elrond and Haldir the Marchwarden with the rest of the Galadhrim from Lothlorien sent by Galadriel. And the Galadhrim would be comprised of Noldor, Teleri, possibly some Sindarin and Sylvan elves too.
Not only Gandalfs clothes went from grey to pure white the wiser he got also Sarumans clothes went more and more to grey during the second half of the movie
Nice piece of trivia, Viggo Mortenson (Aragorn) bought the two horses he rode in the films (one which became extremely attached to him) for himself and the white horse, Asfaloth, for Arwen's stunt double since she didn't have the money to get it. Also, have you spotted Peter Jackson's cameos yet. He was the carrot-eating guy in Bree as the Hobbits entered the gate and he was one of the spear throwers on the wall at Helm's Deep. Now that you know, you'll have to look for him in the third film. Where's PJ?
brego's real name was Uraeus. he was a registered warmblood stallion. there's clips of him doing dressage quite awhile ago somewhere.
20:04 Gives me flashbacks of Ned Stark's and Jon Snow's farewell.🥺
Your analysis of Gandalfs turning from gray to white was so interesting, I had never even thought about it but I'm sure now that you've picked up on the intended meaning.
also at 15:05 i’ve always interpreted Grima tearing up as his regret in siding with Saruman now that he sees the army set to destroy his neighbors with his own eyes
He signed up for control and power, not genocide.
He finally sees the consequences of his actions. I think many 'thugs' rationalize to themselves that what they are doing doesn't really effect anything in the long run. They're just one person.... yada yada.
Also he was in love with Eowynn and I think Saruman promised her to him
I would say definitely watch The Hobbit. Personally, I don't understand all the hate it gets. It is a great story and the movies are great. One thing to remember in context is The Hobbit took place many years before the Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien wrote The Hobbit first and it was written more towards children (this can be seen with the singing aspects in the movies). Tolkien was caught completely off guard by the success of The Hobbit, and that is one of the major reasons there is a noticeable shift in tone, obviously in The Lord Of The Rings, but it is reflected very well in The Hobbit film trilogy. It is something many people complain about, but I think Jackson purposefully did some of it that way to better reflect tje atyle amd the audience that Tolkien was writing to when he wrote it. Don't misunderstand..... The Hobbit films is not as good as Lord Of The Rings, and I'm not overly fond of how much CGI is used because it didn't need to be. My biggest complaint though is that The Hobbit was split into 3 films, which was an obvious cash grab, and that's what puts me off the most. I could potentially see 2 parts, but not 3 parts. It honestly could.have been done in a single movie but I agree it would have been probably 4.5 hours long.
I feel it's a good change that there was conflict in Faramir regarding the Ring, but it's a stark contrast to the books. There, the blood of Numenor runs strong in Faramir, and he basically said that he wouldn't even pick up the Ring if it lied on the side of the road. But that basically denies the incredible power the Ring has.
They also needed to add more tension to the Frodo/Sam story, which wasn't action packed at this point in the books. So it does work in the movie. I forgive them because both Faramir and Theoden revert to their book characters in RoTK and I cry buckets over them both
Yeah, that’s what always kinda irks me when people say that the movies did Faramir dirty. Yes, he’s different, but it makes more sense in the book. Rather than movie Faramir doing the book injustice, book Faramir breaks the book’s already established rules and power of the One Ring, so I consider it a necessary and good change
Faramir was also a student of Gandalf's when he was in Minas Tirith researching Isildur's Bane.
Yeah. imo Faramir is one of the most improved on characters in the movies. I dislike how in the books it sometimes feels like no one even cares about the ring.
Bombadil doesn't care, Faramir doesn't care, Sam doesn't care.
Once is fine, but every time? It diminishes the feeling of threat from the ring, in the movies the ring feels absolutely unstoppable and its great.
Moreover, there is nothing impressive about not falling to a temptation you don't feel. Faramir in the movies shows much more character, because you can actually feel how much he needs the ring so when he releases Frodo despite that it says volumes about who he is as a person.
@@DutchDread Interesting. It worked for me, as a counterpoint to his brother and an appeal that there is, in fact, incorruptibility in the heart of SOME men. For Bombadil, Tolkien leaves a little trail of breadcrumbs that he may not be human at all (he remembers "the first raindrop and the first acorn") but, in fact, a fundamental opposite to Sauron, who is called "The Eye." Compare Sauron, about whom "they feared the light of his eyes" with Tom's : "his blue eye peering through the circle of the Ring." Sam DOES care, and goes through the very same TEMPTATION as everyone else :
"He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur."
Also, I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but in the books, Faramir and the Rangers don't mistreat Gollum and he lets the three of them go fairly soon. That was one of the gripes that many Tolkien fans had with the movies in that Faramir was a much more sympathetic character in the novels but much rougher in the films. I think Jackson felt he needed an extra edge for dramatic tension. The movies made it work (sort of) but if you have time, read up on the novel version of Faramir; a much wiser and kinder character (and one of my favorites in the trilogy).
Gollum is a main character in this middle Earth story from the time he appeared in the hobbit ( chapter: riddles in the dark) until now. Just remember if it was not for him finding the ring this story would not have taken place!
You guys are both pretty great at understanding the layers and characters development. Well done. Really looking forward to Return of the King!
when Theoden (Saruman) banish Eomer from Rohan, the men who are loyal goes with him (the Rohirrim, elite horse riders of Rohan) Most of Rohan army was chivalry too so that was the explanation for that "army"
You're correct that the Elves who arrive at Helm's Deep were from Lothlorien, very well spotted! Haldir (the leader) is the one who briefly captured the Fellowship when they first got to Lothlorien, if you remember the bit where they step out of the trees and he says "the Dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark."
That bit doesn't actually happen at all in the books, but I think it works very well in the film.
Also in the book, Aragorn’s Ranger also buddies come to fight at Helms Deep along with Elrond’s two sons. Just an added tidbit. Of course the movie can’t put all that into it, as they would be 6 hours long lol but the Rangers had a role to play at this point in the story 😊
Every time you two introduce yourselves, I can't help but think "she is so NOT pudgy!" Clearly, the word has a different connotation here in the States. LOL! Anyway, really enjoying re-watching this trilogy with you - you both pick up on so much that many others seem to miss.
One interesting little tidbit is that John Rhys-Davies (Gimli) is actually the TALLEST member of our fellowship at 6'1".
The Hobbit isn't as great as LotR, but there aren't many films that even come close to be fair. If you want to explore a bit more of the world after seeing the ending of these movies, I'd still be happy to watch your reactions to the Hobbit films. There's still a lot of good content there, even if the Hobbit trilogy probably could have been done better as two movies instead of three. ^^
It’s quite good. And then when you go to the behind the scenes you’ll see just how much love was put into it. Equally as much as the original trilogy. And it’s not meant to be LOTR. And it’d have been better if PJ had it from the start and didn’t get called to rescue it from the exploding whirling nosedive Deltoro was sending the movies into such a mess. It’s ROP that needs your eyre directed towards it. 😂
Just with the Rohirrim riding out. If you remember, Gandalf had counselled against them holing up in Helm's Deep. The Rohirrim are the absolute *unstoppable* cavalry of Middle Earth - it's why Sauron wanted Saruman to keep them out of the war. On foot, a Rohan soldier is damned good, but put him on a horse and he's nigh-on unbeatable. Their horses aren't just horses, either. They're extremely intelligent, and phenomenal weapons in their own right. This is why Gandalf wanted Theoden to meet the army of Saruman in the field, mounted - he knew that was the best way for them to win.
In the book, Gandalf agrees with going to Helm's Deep, though. It's one of the changes that I didn't care for or understand why Jackson did it.
@@Blackferret66 - I think Jackson was trying to push the narrative of the Rohirrim being the greatest cavalry in the world. Easier to do in a book, I'm guessing - in the movie, he had to try and get Theoden to confront Saruman in open spaces to use their cavalry advantage. That's the best guess I can come up with.
@@philiponeill6903 Perhaps, but Jackson seemed to have a thing for portraying Men in a more negative light than in the books. "Mortal men doomed to die" wans changed to "Who above all, desire power". Going to Helms Deep was made out to be the wrong decision. Faramir was done dirty by making him a violent jerk before having a change of heart, whereas in the book, he just let them go..
@@Blackferret66 - I have to disagree on some of that. Faramir's personality and actions were one of the areas where the films improved on the books. Book-Faramir was too perfect, saying he wouldn't pick up the Ring if he found it lying by the roadside. There was nowhere for him to go. Movie-Faramir was a much more believable character who I think is a much better man than Book-Faramir. He was tempted, and nearly succumbed, but then overcame that temptation and succeeded where his brother failed. I felt he was a much better characterisation who actually had a character arc that showed him learning and changing. He overcame the frailties of both his brother and his people to eventually make the right decision.
Men were consistently portrayed in the book as the most corruptible of the Races. They were constantly tricked by Sauron and previously by Morgoth. They tried to invade Valinor and got their nation sunk. Isildur fell under the sway of the Ring. "Wicked Men" and Black Numenoreans consistently caused problems, including serving in Sauron's armies in the case of the Southrons and Haradrim.
@@philiponeill6903 Men were corruptible, yes, but Jackson's portrayal was too ham-fisted, imo. The fact that even the books spoke of it, meant that it wasn't necessary to hammer it in even more than was written in them.
I still think Faramir was done dirty. Boromir was tempted, and almost gave in, but Faramir wasn't. If Faramir is tempted like Boromir, it just makes them the same character. Faramir was supposed to be a more noble character, a man of peace and introspection who kept his vow, depsite what it could cost him. In the movie, he was even worse, as he wasn't even tempted by it, like Boromir, as he had no contact with it for the ring to begin manipulating him. He wanted to give it to his father to prove himself. The ring's influence had nothing to do with it.
I saw this in the theater. By the end of the movie I had to pee SO bad, and then Peter Jackson dared to add a huge water scene. I was pissed off! :D Great reaction. I'm glad you're enjoying this. Cheers!
Hopefully not too literally?
@@nerixor :D
Some neat little behind the scenes about Helm’s Deep:
- The Uruk war chant was originally just smg the Uruks’ actors did to keep themselves motivated and awake during the long night shoots in between scenes, and was tweaked for the film. To get the feel that you had an entire army doing it, Peter Jackson set up some sound equipment in a New Zealand sports stadium during halftime and had the spectators chant what you hear in the movie.
- You can see Peter Jackson in a quick cameo, chucking a spear.
- The destruction of the wall was a practical effect, though done on a miniature of course. They could only do one shot of it as a result, and thus just pointed as many cameras at it as they could as it exploded.
- When the team in charge of building the front gate saw the already finished ram the Uruks would use, they got a little scared and made the gate extra sturdy. They succeeded, and a little too much as well, since the battering ram now proved wholly incapable of even budging the gate more than a few centimeters. Someone remarked that, had that team been present at the actual battle, the Uruks would’ve never breached the gate.
I've never once heard someone think there's a third personality lmao
First for me too. One would think that with Faramir's voiced concern it's easy to put two and two together...
The deal with the Forbidden Pool was that it was too close to the Gondorians' hideout - actually might have been a part of it. They couldn't risk anyone finding it, finding the hideout, and escaping to alert Mordor's forces
Yeah, I don't think they actually worshiped the pool. It was just a random pool. Faramir just needed an excuse to force Frodo to help him catch Smeagal.
Enjoyed your reactions! Many reactors are confused by the Forbidden Pool bearing the penalty of death. Faramir and his men are a commando group operating behind enemy lines, and the pool lies right in front of their hideout behind the waterfall. They can't risk Gollum being taken and revealing their presence.
Spartan: Aragorn can’t be my 3rd favorite because I haven’t seen enough of him.
Also Spartan: Boromir is my 3rd favorite.
Aragorn had SO much more screen time than Boromir thus far, so we’ve a lot more of Aragorn. 😂
Loving your reactions to this story! Your analysis and readings of the characters and story elements are so good! Keep going!
Gandalf: "Three hundred lives of men I've walked this earth, and now I have no time" he says as he heads off to find Eomer's Eorde of riders who are riding north out of Rohan (because Eomer was banished), and get them to Helm's Deep before Aragorn, the King and his men fell. And he knew when he said it that they would arrive at dawn on the fifth day.
Just to clarify for those unsure of the elf factions:
The elves that came as reinforcements are only there in the movies, in the books they never reinforced the humans, as most of them were either leaving Middel Earth or fighting their own battles. I think it's a nice touch, though, as it made not much sense to me in the books that they didn't help Rohan, as Saruman winning there ment attacks on several elf realms.
The ones we see in the movie use the "flag" of Lothlorien, the realm of Galadriel, and are known as Galadhrim. They are the least numerous of the big elf kingdoms, but also the closest one to the battle of Helm's Deep, so it makes sense they were the ones coming, not just due to distance, but because Lothlorien would be the first to feel Saruman's wrath after the defeat.
The High Elves live mostly in Rivendell and Lindon, which is west of the Shire. They are the faction led by Elrond and Cirdan (who only appears in one scene right at the end of the third movie, in the docks. He is the oldest elf in Middle Earth). Both Ñoldor and Sindar elves live here, and they are the most powerful by far of all the elves. Theyw ere the first to leave Middle Earth, taht's why they don't participate in the battles we see.
You also have the elves of Mirkwood, also known as Silvan Elves. Legolas is the prince of these elves, and his father Thranduil has been king for a looooong time. They have their own wars against the orcs of Dol'Guldur, a fortress reinhabited by one of the Nazgul and thousands of orcs to attack the people in the north east. That's why they can't help, in fact, one of the major battles of the third age was fought here at the same time as the ones yoou are seeing in the movies. The dwarves of Erebor and the humans of Dale were also present in this huge battle against Rhûn (one of the corrupted human factions, the biggest and most powerful of them all, stronger than Gondor, probably).
You also have the Avari, which are elves that refused to leave Middle Earth. Problem is, most are east of the map we see in the Lord of the Rings. It is said they formed a small kingdom in a place called Dorwinion along with humans, but it's not 100% cannon. Still, they were too far to help and would probably be dealing with Rhûn and Khand (another corrupted human faction).
The last elves Tolkien spoke of are the dark elves, the ones in the far east. Nothing is known about them, only that they never saw Valinor or the light of the Trees.
Also, when elves die, they resurrect in Valinor.