Interview with ELAPHE CEO about IWM and their advantages/ challenges in projects with startups
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- aptera.solar as The European Home for Aptera Fans, Investors and (future) Owners had the pleasure to host their 1st European Meeting on 2024-05-04 in Fulda, Germany and online.
One of our special guests was Elaphe's CEO who informed us about IWM and the status of their collaboration with Aptera Motors. They were so great to send us the mockup of the M800 that was developed for the Aptera.
We accepted their invitation to visit their facilities and sit down for an interview. They even offered a trip to one of their testing facilities.
The interview was recorded 2024-05-10 in Ljubljana, Slovenia. We did announce it earlier but waited to publish it to give @ApteraMotors the chance to publish the "news" first.
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Thank you all for this great interest and feedback to our interview.
Based on discussions in various communities, we are preparing follow-up videos e.g. about the history, importance and state of theoretical and practical research and engineering of unsprung mass.
Thanks for subscribing if you are curious about in-depth information about Aptera, technology related to it and the road to production and also to Europe.
great interview!
Agree, interesting interview and promising solution. As for the prior reply, the solution there is a self-inflicted… oh, never-mind. That’s even too dark for my dark sense-of-humor 😀
@@aussieideasman8498your replies are entirely unhinged, deranged, and wholly uncompelling.
there is a lack of candor and honesty here re Aptera clearly Elaphe is incapable of delivering the motors/ inverters to Aptera whole bunch of silly BS here and Aptera is covering for them too.
30K intervals between seal replacement is fine you could replace all in less than 1 hour labor BS excuse !
they clearly said Aptera has no $ to pay for R & D ! Aptera lied to us for 6 years now since 2019 re hub motors
A highly edited video here bottom line Elaphe cannot deliver the tech is only theoretical and NOT ready for any production vehicle we aptera reservation holders were lied to for months if not years
I really feel the Elaphe and Aptera combo were meant to be, and very saddened by the current replacement. I simply love the design of the Aptera with all wheel hub motor design, and that combo would be a major step forward for each company and concept. I remain on the edge of my seat!
So the divorce was by Aptera, but I am still not clear as to why. Wishing Elaphe will figure out how this technology can be incorporated into Aptera at a later time. The concept still sounds compelling, and my hope is that Aptera will be back and using this system.
Correct.
In the video the CEO mentions that the effort to integrate such an innovative solution must be wholistic. That takes time, human resources and simply money.
We all know how 2022 and 2023 went for Aptera Motors in regards to cash flow, funding and headcount.
Then just put the pieces of the puzzle together ...
I believe money was the factor and that is why they have left the door open for a future in wheel motor.
i believe aptera wants to get to production fast and securely, so they use a conventional motor first. that doesnt mean elaphe is out for good. i bet once elaphe is ready aptera will use their motors.
Elaphe us just a new product not to many cars have this kind of motors, so that means they are not being tested enough like other motors "yes" Elaphe test their motors in the facility but do not have any info about the outside world, I rather be using a product that other companies are using and that it's being tested outsite "in the real world" that getting a brand new car comming from a brand new company and then having problems with the motors all the time for "X" reason, Aptera did a good choise letting Elaphe outsite at least for now, because since Aptera is just a "baby" right now everything should be perfect, if people start having problems with the main thing the motors so nobody is going to buy Aptera, LET'S GO APTERA!!!!
Was fairly early but not LE. I canceled the order as it started seeming as if these guys are Sondors. I'd watched them from years ago and had hoped they would succeed this go round. If they ever get it together I'll order up again but my order not being LE had been pushed back a few times. It appeared to have slipped again after the UAE. Not my spec, not my schedule, given they have tons of orders just how are they going to complete them if their goal was like 5000 in 2025? What about open pilot? I'll buy one if I'm still alive when they can take an order and produce one in a month. Glad I did not invest beyond an order for a vehicle that at last for now was easily cancelled unlike Sondors!
Long time Aptera reservation holder and investor here from the USA. This was a fantastic interview with the Elaphe CEO, thank you for bringing it to us! Given the glowing Aptera support shown in the interview, I almost get the feeling that Aptera is the one who stepped away from Elaphe and maybe even unexpectedly. I wonder what you are feeling? While the change to an e-axle drive has been announced, we have yet to hear anything about why the change was made. I hope the first episode of Aptera's podcast tomorrow will speak to this, especially since the in-wheel motors seem to be an ideal, and maybe better, fit.
It's always time and money. Do the best you can in the time you're given. It's a compromise that Aptera felt they needed to do. So many people griping for a while now and getting discouraged by the delays, that Aptera needed to do something before losing all good will. Would the integration of the hub motors have been possible for delivery in Q4 of '24 or start of '25? I don't know. But I truly hope that Aptera returns to Elaphe to bring those AWD IWM to realitiy.
my take in this is that Elaphe made a special motor for aptera which they call M800 and needs to fully mature. The aptera CEO were concerned about the seal of the M700, which requires periodic maintenance (I believe it is every 30,000 miles) that is unacceptable to Aptera. So they co develop this new motor in hope of making the motor Seals pretty much "maintenance free" and also to make it more efficient as aptera may have suggested some tweaks to it to further increase its efficiency.
Obviously this new motor M800 needs to go through validation and testing, it will take time. also Elaphe "Needs to build" bigger factory to accommodate Aptera's expansion (It is indicated in their initial contract). which I think Elaphe was not able to do... or at least, they may need income money from aptera first to fund the construction of the said facility.
Aptera has to build and deliver the Aptera car to buyers ASAP, and since time is of the essence, they chose a tried and true power train for their cars.
@@DreyZee-vn3kl Could be the case, we don't know yet. Maybe the podcast will provide more detail.
@@aussieideasman8498 there is a lack of candor and honesty here re Aptera clearly Elaphe is incapable of delivering the motors/ inverters to Aptera whole bunch of silly BS here and Aptera is covering for them too.
A highly edited video here bottom line Elaphe cannot deliver the tech is only theoretical and NOT ready for any production vehicle we aptera reservation holders were lied to for months if not years
@@DreyZee-vn3kl No supplier will build factories and fund everything, to potentially sell to a startup, unless they have excess capacity and already amortized line and supply chain or the startup funds it. No money no funny.
Thank you for this interview. Very much appreciated. Quite impressed with Mr. Lampic (sorry about the diacritic c butchering) as an engineer and the solid company background. Personally I am not a specific e-motor configuration fanboy; we'll see how this field will evolve either technically or commercially or both. And, not at all relevant here but ... what a strange company logo if you've ever been to exposed to Manx (Isle of Man). While Slovenia is quite a global leader in the e-mobility space ... [ Pipistrel ! ]
Bravo! This is excellent content and timely. Truly looking forward to Aptera variant with in-wheel drive! Hoping there is a way to create production capacity for Elaphe to provide the initial low volume for Aptera. All entities including Govt who print monies, where are you! Fund this already!
Have similar gut reaction but one thing Elaphe should be doing is presenting their data (eg, direct weight comparisons, efficiency, mean time between failure, etc.) rather than just design schematics and track/road videos. Just caught a bit of Formula-E racing and success there would be real impressive and attract investors.
@@aussieideasman8498 Not "blame" but suggestions as to how Elaphe could be more persuasive if, in fact, their hub-motors are (1) apt and ready for THIS application (Aptera); and (2) have the manufacturing capacity. Besides wt. & efficiency, plz share if you’ve seen data on Elaphe’s reliability / durability, another key requirement as noted & often discussed.
Great interview!!
Thank you this interview. As an Aptera reservation holder I am disappointed that they decided against the in wheel motor. I thought that was a cool feature of their vehicle.
You're welcome.
I would not be surprised, as Aptera progresses toward a production car, we see a series of announcements "adjusting" their performance standards, range and solar efficiency in particular. Physics really does suck.
Thank you
Very informative !
Lots of possibilities…
I look forward to production experiences! And Yes Hoping elaphe can be the “e” in aptera one day!
So the problems were price and schedule, and Aptera backed out temporarily. Cool!
Great interview and excellent showcase on the motors they have. It is a shame that the motors won't be on the LE but I truly hope that the partnership can happen for models down the road. I liked seeing the Speed Racer type of wheels. I can see many applications for these. Wonder how they would do for a speedboat motor
Looks like you guys (and technology) got stood up at the altar!
Hello, good to see familiar faces :)
Thanks for this very informative video! Please more of this stuff.
I have been developing in my mind for a few decades an alternative to the traditional two wheeled bicycle for use on city streets. My experiences riding a road bike to and from work amid cars and trucks sometimes driven by hostile drivers influenced my design. Features that were my top priority were: a fully enclosed aerodynamic and lightweight exterior structure with front and rear crumple zones, roll bar and clear acrylic canopy/ entrance, recumbent height adjustable seat with four point seat belt, adjustable foot pedals to accommodate most adult leg lengths, independent air suspension on all four wheels with the single front and single rear wheels linked by rack and pinion steering. The two fixed direction (non-steering) side wheels are equidistant from the front and rear wheels to minimize wheel scrub during turns and they are positioned as close as possible to the right and left side of the center of gravity. The front wheel can use a hub motor for propulsion and regenerative braking. I have struggled with the design of the transmission given the pivoting nature of the pedal driven rear wheel. Hub motors on both single front and single rear wheels would essentially transform this design into either a hybrid electric (using a generator attached to the pedals), or a fully electric vehicle. I would rather it remain mostly human powered with a little help uphill. How small are the hub motors you have developed?
The M800 that was developed for the Aptera vehicle would fit inside a 16 inch wheel.
Check out the new Freegen system being developed in collaboration with Grin Technologies
Makes sense to me 👍
How do they handle brake dust
Please ask Elaphe if they can perhaps get a company in China to build and deliver the hub motors for Aptera since Elaphe has already done the design, testing, and proven the motors
Plz do not… labor cost is the least of the challenge with modern manufacturing robotics. Just today US fighter planes had to escort Russian & Chinese military aircraft out of US airspace. Not sorry I see those as relevant to economic devt./investment. Chery Motors (of China) is already a supplier, that’s ample.
Aptera when from super car to pinto with this bad decision. It is apparently that aptera no longer cares about handling just like most us car companies of the past
I think the cooling became the problem, as it needed a larger radiator than what the vehicle could fit without redesign
I think it would be the opposite. The hub motors are more exposed to moving air so they get more passive cooling. I really think the main driving factor is just that Elaphe is not able to meet the demand Aptera needs for mass production. I think it's very clear that the Aptera team really wanted hub motors, but it could have delayed the launch yet another year which the can't do.
Aptera's launch window is closing and the longer it takes, the less impressive those original specs look.
@@Skylancer727 The reason for launch delay are not the motors. When you are a new company you need a heavy wallet, since you are risky to work with. the size of your wallet defines your speed...
Low speed vehicle and robots is the obvious primary market.
Listening to this guy talk and talk without saying anything, it's really clear why Aptera has moved away. Apparently "high bandwidth" control is really valuable in controlling traction, but high unsprung weight doesn't matter as long are you have a weight ratio below 1:5. Sure thing, not self-serving hand waving at all!
i dont understand, would you explain?
tourque vectoring seems unimportant to me in aptera. its not a racecar.
@@nutzeeer Understand what? Explain what?
Torque vectoring is valuable, whether it is important is different. However, hub motors are not required for torque vectoring.
The elephant in the room is unsprung mass. It is bad for everything. It is disingenuous to argue in the abstract the value of fine differences yet pretend that unsprung mass doesn't matter in the grossest sense. That's exactly what this guy has done here. He's a one trick pony, if it's not good for him then it doesn't matter.
@@craigsj
The CEO of Elaphe did not say unsprung mass did not matter.
He said if you can keep the ratio of unsprung mass to total vehicle mass to less than 1/5 or 1/6 then the unsprung mass matters little.
You are the one who falsified what had been said by the CEO.
@@Kukaboora I did not, I characterized it as a gross handwaving, and that's precisely what it is. He said that given a crude ratio "you are safe". It is BS, and he said it in the context of implying that comparatively small benefits are important.
Also, I do not agree that it "matters little", even if he claimed that which he did not. Given a ratio of his "safe" zone, I strongly suspect that improvements in unsprung mass "ratio" would be at least as beneficial as the theoretical benefits he is trumpeting of a technology he is failing to deliver.
@@aussieideasman8498 Yeah, unsprung weight is extremely well understood. It adversely affects virtually everything, include the performance areas for which he is claiming esoteric improvements. It's a joke really, and it's no surprise the solution has not gained traction in so long. It's not new, it's just bad.
More importantly, there is no way around an in-wheel motor adding unsprung weight, so using the technology would have least impact on a heavy EV, precisely the opposite of what Aptera is. In-wheel motors and Aptera's goals are a match made in hell. The fact that they have not realized that, or admitted it publicly, tells me that Aptera is either not serious or not honest.
Of course, future developments could lower in-wheel motor weights, but that is not here today. Aptera is interesting because it is unusual, but it is a low-function vehicle with some seriously flawed design ideas and some outright fraudulent marketing and dishonest grifting of the public. Aptera has one good idea, the odd airfoil shaped body, but that body causes the low function and lack of market interest. I do not see how success is even possible, but at least they've abandoned the in-wheel motors, like the rest of the industry.