"what is the role of explicit study of language? It helps you notice the features in the input" YEEESSS. that has been my experience. When I have lessons in grammar & then later can hear it in my input sessions it's WAY more powerful than just hearing something & trying to make a mental note to myself
You only feel that way because you insist on listening and reading incomprehensible input. You naturally notice the grammatical features of a language if you are listening to real comprehensible input. That's been my experience with Chinese, Korean, German, and French which I never did any kind of traditional study with.
@janelle.loves.languages well, you must be better than me because I certainly haven't been able to "naturally" notice grammatical features from input. & I don't listen to incomprensible input because, frankly, it bores me to listen to anything I can't follow. I made my observation to be quite specifically about MY experience & didn't mention anything about people like you who are able to learn grammar & languages successfully via CI but you sure made some assumptions about me!
@@msmendes214 So did you calculate your percentage of comprehension per page or per 5 minutes of an audio clip to be sure you are listening at 98% comprehensible? Because that's necessary to be able to pick up grammatical features of any language naturally though input.
Thank you so much for doing all these interviews, allowing us non-academics access to knowledge. You should write a book, have the same questions answered by different Professors!
I can't wait to watch the interview with Stephen Krashen. I tried different combinations with different languages and I came to the conclusion that Stephen Krashen is right, 100% it is the input that really works. The main key is to choose the input that is comprehensible and passes the emotional filter.
I’ve been experimenting on myself with comprehensible input alone to learn French (false beginner, 4 months in). I concluded that it’s possible to infer a good deal of grammar rules through CI, but there’re certain rules that I am vaguely aware of, but just can’t figure it out clearly. It’d be way more EFFECTIVE if I had explicitly learned grammar on these. I guess a good mind model is to regard grammar as a cheat sheet, it’s not worth lots of your time but it’s definitely helpful (sometimes even crucial if you got blocked) to take a peek
Grammar for me is about closing a circle. With lots of input you are somewhere between most the way there or mist the way there but the conscious rule with examples closes the circle, leading to effective acquisition which is strengthened by further exposure.
@@cpnlsn88 Well said! My analog is putting together the last pieces of puzzle. Through exposure the picture is mostly clear, but I am definitely not satisfied with a couple holes in it.
Indont know where this false that you are not allowed to look out the grammar comes from. Input theory doesn't claim that you should never look at the grammar, but that it is useless to learn grammar rule and déclinaisons by heart. Of course checking grammar lessons, especially after having encountered lots of input, helps make sense of some part and recognise it.
I really enjoyed this interview for the atmosphere of respect and honest curiosity and Dr. Newton's explanation of linguistic concepts. I learned a lot as a language learner as well as a kindergarten teacher. Thank you very much.
As an intermediate language learner, I completely agree that vocabulary is the sticking point preventing me from wanting to engage in more speaking practice. I dig the guest's point that you have to practice what you want to be good at, but I have no interest in having more superficial conversations, or constantly interrupting the conversation with ("How to you say X in language Y ??"). My biggest difficulty when speaking is trying to actively recall, in conversations, the 70% of vocabulary that I already know (i.e. have encountered and can recognize), but don't occur frequently enough in conversations, that it's "available for output". Do folks have ideas as to how, given Zipf's Law wrt language, how to structure a 1:1 speaking activity with a tutor in a way that boosts/forces the usage of the 'lower' frequency words while tamping down the temptation to crutch with 'high' frequency words ...?
Learn by teaching. Remember those horrible school projects where you had to present to the class? Teachers assigned those for a reason. Pick some technical or more advanced topic, and research it in the target language. Find the vocabulary needed to explain it, take notes, write a whole speech. Then in your speaking practice, don't use your cheat sheets and try to explain the subject from memory. Have a Q&A with your tutor, the works. If you're asking "How do I have spontaneous conversations on advanced subjects, using complicated vocabulary and with no preparation?", the answer is "You don't."
There is passive knowledge amd active knowledge. We learn to recognise words first, where the context helps. With time we develop the ability to recall those words. I think it is just a case of exposing oneself to as much input as possible, until the words become second nature.
Post 3 of 3 on this. Please read the other 2 parts first. As I said, natural language acquisition, when done right (using my system as described in parts 1 and 2), takes very little time. So, I suggest you just do my system for a few weeks, then, while continuing my system, start looking for people whom to talk to in your target language. The system works for all 20 languages I teach. For Mandarin, another step is needed, ear tuning to the tones only, before ear tuning to the whole content of the words. I discovered my system, mostly by accident, from Dec 2018 to March 2019. I did have several insights along the way as well, and some help from my language partners. To those who are skeptical: It takes so little time to try my system, that it is nonsensical to argue about it. Nothing about my system is going to waste your time,nor hurt in any way your study of your language. What harm in playing a story in the target language as your choice for background noise? My ear tuning exercises work so fast they will amaze you a couple of hours into doing them. The third part, doing associations, is part of any study of a language; my way has a very strong listening component.
10:52 around this point, and in other videos, and throughout this video. There’s some odd echo from your microphone coming from both your audio and the audio on the other side that comes across as hissing and consonant echoing. Weirdly never present in your interviewees audio so probably something you can tune with your mic and noise cancellation
I own an English training center in China that preps students to live and study in the USA, the UK, Canada, and Australia. We have been very successful in placing students in top 2% of world universities. Our average SAT student scores 1530 and our average TOEFL student will score 112. Input is essential, but it must be coupled with vocab learning, speaking and any and all exposure to the language. Krashen would agree. Input obviously isn't enough.
@@David-b4l Get Shawn Patel's materials. I've used it as a big part of our curriculum. Our average Chinese student here in Henan will achieve a score of 1530. This is my recommendation.
Subscribed because I like the interviews and they’re interesting Could you interview someone about using blooms taxonomy and whole part whole for language and general learning?
I also struggle to learn vocabulary. With French it was easy as we share so many words, and I often understand words in videos I have never heard before. With German it’s hard, with words such as verschieben and entstehen. I started using books for German children and simple news broadcasts where many words are repeated regularly. I found some so called beginners material too complex.
In graduate school in mathematics, I picked up a 500 page advanced mathematics text and was able to read it without having studied French. I sometimes needed to look up a two-letter word in my pocket French dictionary. I was exposed to INTERESTING, COMPREHENSIBLE INPUT. I could not ask "where is a bathroom".
This is post 2 0f 3 on this. Ok, you are doing several hours of passive listening per day - habit one. And doing some ear tuning exercises each day - habit 2. The 3rd, and final, habit is associations. This is where you tie in the words from the story to your native language. For this, you will need some notes. You can create your own, or ask for help. I'll be glad to help with any of the 20 languages I teach. I never charge anyone for anything, languages are just a hobby for me. I call the way I do associations "readthrus." For this, you need notes, sentence by sentence, for the story you are listening to. The notes should be brief, although most likely the notes for the very first sentences will tend to be a bit longer. Some grammar can be introduced, but avoid putting too much grammar in the notes for any one sentence. The definitions of the words, and definitions of any phrases, that are not obvious, need to be there. The grammar does not need to be there; it can always be put off to later sentences. Assuming you have the notes: 1) look over the notes for the first sentence to the point you have some grasp about the meaning of the sentence. 2) Listen to that first sentence 3 times while reading it. You are listening for understanding. 3) glance at the notes again if needed. 4) Listen 3 more times, with eyes closed this time. Listen for understanding. 5) repeat the above steps, one more time, then go on to the next sentence. Spend between 1 to 4 half hour sessions per day doing readthrus. Each day, spend half your time going over previous sentences, half the time going over new material.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Similar. But, are you listening to the story you are learning passively for several hours per day? If not, you are wasting 80% of your time. That is because the passive listening boosts the learning rate 5 times over. And what are you doing for ear tuning? Working with the sentences, listening to them a lot, helps. But doing regular ear tuning exercises works a hundred times faster to get the ear to native. And, the more native the ear, the quicker you pick up the language; both from the passive listening and the verbal work you do with those sentences.
@@LeeSohlden I have several techniques. With French I could understand the transcipt but not the speech. So I spend an hour a day reading the transcript while listening. I also do free listening with no transcript. The aim is to train my brain to associate sounds to words, but as they are actually spoken. At first I understood only documentaries and news reports which are very clear. Then I understood films dubbed into French. Now I’m starting to understand French films in French, and casual interviews i.e. not trained presenters. I harvest phrases from these sessions for use in Anki. I also do some study when needed. For example, sometimes I can’t figure out a phrase, so I slowly work through it. Sometimes I google to find images to aid association. I struggle with prepositions e.g. Le train de voyageurs, La trousse à couture. I still struggle with some speakers who munch their words. Speaking fast is not such an issue if it’s clear. It is a slow gradual process of training the brain.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ What you are doing will work over time. Its just much quicker using my ear tuning exercises. For French, the ear of an English speaker tunes into French four days after beginning ear tuning exercises. That is four days, with doing an hour of ear tuning exercises each day; along with several hours of passive listening each day. From there, continual daily ear tuning exercises work to rapidly get the ear to native level. After the first week, you just need ten minutes a day of the ear tuning exercises. Then eventually, just five minutes per day. Note, the passive listening, several hours per day of it, never stops. Passive listening just means you choose to be playing French as the background noise around you. Half, at least, of the passive listening, should be to items you are trying to learn.
@@LeeSohlden What makes you such an expert? As for your method, part of ear tuning is learning to pick up common phrases, and word combinations, I don’t believe your claims as to the efficacy of your method. Where is the independent validation, or at least the evidence? The internet is full of self proclaimed experts peddling a miracle method.
11:20 Ah oui, ce fameux désaccord sur l’apprentissage des langues parmi les scientifiques c’est vraiment ennuyant…🙃 Ce n'est pas pour être importun, mais je me demandais si un jour tu pourrais converser avec quelqu'un d'entre eux, ce serait cool… Those are rather pro Krashen’s approach guys. Joel from jan Telakoman, Elise from Hyperpolyglotting with Élise, James from Future Multilingual, Vladimir from Virtually Native, just to name a few… Merci et bonne continuation...
@@loistalagrand Hey Lois. It would be interesting to hear his opinion on reading and listening efficiency. I mean which way of getting input is more effective and efficient for an adult language learner. What gives us more benefits one hour of reading or one hour of listening?
Teachers will still have a role! Everything you can learn, you can learn online for free, and you can learn in libraries for free. People still pay teachers to teach them.
Is there anyone who can help me to introduce a few Universtity students from North America. I have some teenagers who want to learn/practise English with them.
There’re plenty of AI summary tools out there. Just wanna point out: reading TLDR only is just a waste of time, why bother if ya gonna forget anyway. The only effective way of using TLDR, is to sit through the whole learning process and spend the time writing up a TLDR afterwards for yourself. This is essential the Feynman method. The false assumption that one can “learn” by reading condensed gist of information is harmful. It’s the junk food of this “infobesity” era. We can only process that information, but we can’t learn from it.
@@vincentcheung1876 God save society from the Twitter plague :chuckles: The lack of ability to focus and persist will eventually drag us back down to an agrarian level as the expert skills required to maintain technological civilisation will be lost.
Honestly, hearing that he learns French by using Duolingo makes his opinion a bit less trustworthy. Also, SK says that learning grammar or in other words looking for the syntax while we are reading or listening to something, etc. is only good to create a system that helps to self-check what we wrote - because when you speak you just don't have the time to do so - but by doing this you might be able to get more input/repetition with the thing where you have issues - but it is kind just a small thing next to the fact that comprehensible input is the number one, most important thing when we would like to acquire a language. So he talks about what Jonathan talks about here. I think grammar and vocab drills can make our input more comprehensible - so they can help, but it always comes down to comprehensible input.
@@loistalagrand Sometimes it's like your guest is talking about some points for the first time in his life and his is rambling instead of presentation a clear vision.
I have met Newton at conference in Malaysia. I found him a most unpleasant person. He deals mostly with very advanced learners of English and doesn't know very much about dealing with EFL beginners OK, he might have done it at the beginning of his career for a bit in China. Look to the latest versions of grammar in formal linguistics--THERE ARE NO RULES.
Post 1 of 3 on this. Natural language acquisition, done right, takes very little time. Who does it right? Anyone I have taught my system to. (about a thousand people at this point.) Here is how it goes: You get into 3 daily habits. One, at least 3 hours per day passively listening to a story in your target language, which you are working on learning. This takes no time, as passive listening means it is playing as background noise but you are paying no attention at all to it at all, as you go about your normal day. Two, do ear tuning exercises, an invention of mine. I'll use English as an example. Here are 30 seconds worth of ear tuning syllables: "Thu maen was ser preizd too see ev ree wun in such a her ee. But then hee saw that smok wuz cum ming frum the dis tuns. Soon thayr wuz flaymz, then heet frum thu flaymz. Luk i lee, aefter run ning for u bit, hee saw hiz gerl frend wiTH her car aend wuz ay bL too escayp" You listen to the ear tuning syllable 120 times per day (from the audiobook they come from.) Half the time, listen with eyes closed. Half the time, use your eyes to attempt to follow the voice, attempting to keep your eyes on the exact syllable being spoken at any exact moment. After a couple of days, the student's ear is tuned to english. But, the student is to keep doing daily ear tuning exercises, though less and less. And the student never stops the passive listening.
This is post 2 0f 3 on this. Ok, you are doing several hours of passive listening per day - habit one. And doing some ear tuning exercises each day - habit 2. The 3rd, and final, habit is associations. This is where you tie in the words from the story to your native language. For this, you will need some notes. You can create your own, or ask for help. I'll be glad to help with any of the 20 languages I teach. I never charge anyone for anything, languages are just a hobby for me. I call the way I do associations "readthrus." For this, you need notes, sentence by sentence, for the story you are listening to. The notes should be brief, although most likely the notes for the very first sentences will tend to be a bit longer. Some grammar can be introduced, but avoid putting too much grammar in the notes for any one sentence. The definitions of the words, and definitions of any phrases, that are not obvious, need to be there. The grammar does not need to be there; it can always be put off to later sentences. Assuming you have the notes: 1) look over the notes for the first sentence to the point you have some grasp about the meaning of the sentence. 2) Listen to that first sentence 3 times while reading it. You are listening for understanding. 3) glance at the notes again if needed. 4) Listen 3 more times, with eyes closed this time. Listen for understanding. 5) repeat the above steps, one more time, then go on to the next sentence. Spend between 1 to 4 half hour sessions per day doing readthrus. Each day, spend half your time going over previous sentences, half the time going over new material.
Post 3 of 3 on this. Please read the other 2 parts first. As I said, natural language acquisition, when done right (using my system as described in parts 1 and 2), takes very little time. So, I suggest you just do my system for a few weeks, then, while continuing my system, start looking for people whom to talk to in your target language. The system works for all 20 languages I teach. For Mandarin, another step is needed, ear tuning to the tones only, before ear tuning to the whole content of the words. I discovered my system, mostly by accident, from Dec 2018 to March 2019. I did have several insights along the way as well, and some help from my language partners. To those who are skeptical: It takes so little time to try my system, that it is nonsensical to argue about it. Nothing about my system is going to waste your time,nor hurt in any way your study of your language. What harm in playing a story in the target language as your choice for background noise? My ear tuning exercises work so fast they will amaze you a couple of hours into doing them. The third part, doing associations, is part of any study of a language; my way has a very strong listening component. The result of doing my system: After getting all this input, and with a very sharp ear for the language, the student finds it rather easy to pronounce things right. What you hear right, you can repeat right. The student also, rather quickly, has an immense vocabulary in the language - for listening and reading. For speaking, you have to actually start speaking. A lot of it is automatic, but you do at some point have to start speaking the language with someone to get good at it. Native speakers will appreciate how well you understand them, and have much more patience with you when they converse with you.
I can’t speak for others, but for me language learning is a slow process. Learning words is the key problem, it takes me ages. As for tuning my ear, it takes me hundreds of hours of listening.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ I've cut ear tuning into a two hour process, for most languages. This is something I stumbled upon. It started when I noticed that my ear had tuned into Brazilian Portuguese, at the common phrase level, after months of working with common phrase videos. Three languages that were secondary studies for me at the time, Korean, Arabic, and Russian, I was introducing the common phrases with Brazilian Portuguese. How did I notice? My language partner for Brazilian Portuguese had been off traveling and out of touch for a couple of months. When he got back, I repeated the common phrases to him for Brazilian Portuguese. He said my pronunciation was flawless, save just a hint of american accent. Now, when he left two months earlier, my pronunciation was horrible. I spoke no Portuguese during his absence. I simply had been working, extensively, with those common phrase videos. (repeatedly listening with eyes closed or listening while reading.) I had a simple insight - my ear must have tuned in, or how else could I have suddenly been saying things right? I examined what happened -then repeated the "experiment" with 3 languages still very tough for me to hear - Russia, Arabic, and Korean. One at a time, I greatly increased how much daily work I did for the language and how much passive listening I did. It worked - two days for each language. Later, I tried the technique on full speed Spanish, only hoping it might help a little. In two days, my ear tuned into full speed Spanish. Now a days, if I learn a language, ear tuning comes first.
"what is the role of explicit study of language? It helps you notice the features in the input" YEEESSS. that has been my experience. When I have lessons in grammar & then later can hear it in my input sessions it's WAY more powerful than just hearing something & trying to make a mental note to myself
Thanks for sharing!
Me too. I need explicit study otherwise I don’t learn. Even with French, an easy language, I have to study or I misinterpret things.
You only feel that way because you insist on listening and reading incomprehensible input. You naturally notice the grammatical features of a language if you are listening to real comprehensible input. That's been my experience with Chinese, Korean, German, and French which I never did any kind of traditional study with.
@janelle.loves.languages well, you must be better than me because I certainly haven't been able to "naturally" notice grammatical features from input. & I don't listen to incomprensible input because, frankly, it bores me to listen to anything I can't follow. I made my observation to be quite specifically about MY experience & didn't mention anything about people like you who are able to learn grammar & languages successfully via CI but you sure made some assumptions about me!
@@msmendes214 So did you calculate your percentage of comprehension per page or per 5 minutes of an audio clip to be sure you are listening at 98% comprehensible? Because that's necessary to be able to pick up grammatical features of any language naturally though input.
I think your channel is really great, I have been noticing the hard work ypu put on get really an accurate content. So thanks very much
Glad you like it!
Thank you so much for doing all these interviews, allowing us non-academics access to knowledge. You should write a book, have the same questions answered by different Professors!
I can't wait to watch the interview with Stephen Krashen. I tried different combinations with different languages and I came to the conclusion that Stephen Krashen is right, 100% it is the input that really works. The main key is to choose the input that is comprehensible and passes the emotional filter.
I’ve been experimenting on myself with comprehensible input alone to learn French (false beginner, 4 months in). I concluded that it’s possible to infer a good deal of grammar rules through CI, but there’re certain rules that I am vaguely aware of, but just can’t figure it out clearly. It’d be way more EFFECTIVE if I had explicitly learned grammar on these. I guess a good mind model is to regard grammar as a cheat sheet, it’s not worth lots of your time but it’s definitely helpful (sometimes even crucial if you got blocked) to take a peek
Thanks for sharing!
Grammar for me is about closing a circle. With lots of input you are somewhere between most the way there or mist the way there but the conscious rule with examples closes the circle, leading to effective acquisition which is strengthened by further exposure.
@@cpnlsn88 Well said! My analog is putting together the last pieces of puzzle. Through exposure the picture is mostly clear, but I am definitely not satisfied with a couple holes in it.
Couldn't agree More. Most interested in the idea to treat grammar as a cheat sheet.
Indont know where this false that you are not allowed to look out the grammar comes from.
Input theory doesn't claim that you should never look at the grammar, but that it is useless to learn grammar rule and déclinaisons by heart.
Of course checking grammar lessons, especially after having encountered lots of input, helps make sense of some part and recognise it.
I really enjoyed this interview for the atmosphere of respect and honest curiosity and Dr. Newton's explanation of linguistic concepts. I learned a lot as a language learner as well as a kindergarten teacher. Thank you very much.
Glad you enjoyed the interview!
As an intermediate language learner, I completely agree that vocabulary is the sticking point preventing me from wanting to engage in more speaking practice. I dig the guest's point that you have to practice what you want to be good at, but I have no interest in having more superficial conversations, or constantly interrupting the conversation with ("How to you say X in language Y ??"). My biggest difficulty when speaking is trying to actively recall, in conversations, the 70% of vocabulary that I already know (i.e. have encountered and can recognize), but don't occur frequently enough in conversations, that it's "available for output". Do folks have ideas as to how, given Zipf's Law wrt language, how to structure a 1:1 speaking activity with a tutor in a way that boosts/forces the usage of the 'lower' frequency words while tamping down the temptation to crutch with 'high' frequency words ...?
If I remember correctly, I talked about this with the next guest (I'll post the video next week).
Learn by teaching. Remember those horrible school projects where you had to present to the class? Teachers assigned those for a reason.
Pick some technical or more advanced topic, and research it in the target language. Find the vocabulary needed to explain it, take notes, write a whole speech.
Then in your speaking practice, don't use your cheat sheets and try to explain the subject from memory. Have a Q&A with your tutor, the works.
If you're asking "How do I have spontaneous conversations on advanced subjects, using complicated vocabulary and with no preparation?", the answer is "You don't."
There is passive knowledge amd active knowledge. We learn to recognise words first, where the context helps. With time we develop the ability to recall those words. I think it is just a case of exposing oneself to as much input as possible, until the words become second nature.
Another wonderful interview Lois...amazing stuff. 😃
Please keep up this great work, I tell anyone I can about your channel.
Richard from Ireland. 😊
Thanks Richard!
Lois, consider doing a focused video or interview on explicit vs. implicit knowledge/learning, as it clarifies the language learning debate.
Hey! When you are going to interview Jeff McQuilan, please ask him about fossilized mistakes and correcting errors and what we can do about that
I will!
An excellent interview. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Post 3 of 3 on this.
Please read the other 2 parts first.
As I said, natural language acquisition, when done right (using my system as described in parts 1 and 2), takes very little time. So, I suggest you just do my system for a few weeks, then, while continuing my system, start looking for people whom to talk to in your target language.
The system works for all 20 languages I teach. For Mandarin, another step is needed, ear tuning to the tones only, before ear tuning to the whole content of the words.
I discovered my system, mostly by accident, from Dec 2018 to March 2019. I did have several insights along the way as well, and some help from my language partners.
To those who are skeptical: It takes so little time to try my system, that it is nonsensical to argue about it. Nothing about my system is going to waste your time,nor hurt in any way your study of your language. What harm in playing a story in the target language as your choice for background noise? My ear tuning exercises work so fast they will amaze you a couple of hours into doing them.
The third part, doing associations, is part of any study of a language; my way has a very strong listening component.
10:52 around this point, and in other videos, and throughout this video. There’s some odd echo from your microphone coming from both your audio and the audio on the other side that comes across as hissing and consonant echoing. Weirdly never present in your interviewees audio so probably something you can tune with your mic and noise cancellation
I own an English training center in China that preps students to live and study in the USA, the UK, Canada, and Australia. We have been very successful in placing students in top 2% of world universities. Our average SAT student scores 1530 and our average TOEFL student will score 112. Input is essential, but it must be coupled with vocab learning, speaking and any and all exposure to the language. Krashen would agree. Input obviously isn't enough.
@murphy903 can you recommend any resources for achieving a high SAT score
@@David-b4l Get Shawn Patel's materials. I've used it as a big part of our curriculum. Our average Chinese student here in Henan will achieve a score of 1530. This is my recommendation.
@@murphy903 Thank you
Bravo! Same here.
Hi Loïs, thanks for the good content! One question: when is the French deck going to be available? Cheers!
Hi, it is already available at store.ankicoredecks.com/
subscribed and liked. Fanstatic content and much appreciated.
I really like these interviews. The editing looks weird, though, the fact that lots of phrases get cut off.
Subscribed because I like the interviews and they’re interesting
Could you interview someone about using blooms taxonomy and whole part whole for language and general learning?
I also struggle to learn vocabulary. With French it was easy as we share so many words, and I often understand words in videos I have never heard before. With German it’s hard, with words such as verschieben and entstehen. I started using books for German children and simple news broadcasts where many words are repeated regularly. I found some so called beginners material too complex.
In graduate school in mathematics, I picked up a 500 page advanced mathematics text and was able to read it without having studied French.
I sometimes needed to look up a two-letter word in my pocket French dictionary. I was exposed to INTERESTING, COMPREHENSIBLE INPUT. I could not ask "where is a bathroom".
Technical books are sometimes easier to understand. I guess the vocabulary and the topics don't vary too much.
Because it’s French.
Try doing the same in Russian or German.
@@tessmaru7285 German is easy enough. But chinese or Japanese is impossible.
What’s the best way to learn Swiss German?
hahaha good luck with that ... the good thing is, you don't have to.
Come to Switzerland! But be aware that each Kanton has its own dialect, so you´ll have to choose which version of Swiss German you want to learn.
Excellent 👌
You're amazing ❤❤
Thanks
This is post 2 0f 3 on this.
Ok, you are doing several hours of passive listening per day - habit one. And doing some ear tuning exercises each day - habit 2.
The 3rd, and final, habit is associations. This is where you tie in the words from the story to your native language. For this, you will need some notes. You can create your own, or ask for help. I'll be glad to help with any of the 20 languages I teach. I never charge anyone for anything, languages are just a hobby for me.
I call the way I do associations "readthrus." For this, you need notes, sentence by sentence, for the story you are listening to. The notes should be brief, although most likely the notes for the very first sentences will tend to be a bit longer. Some grammar can be introduced, but avoid putting too much grammar in the notes for any one sentence. The definitions of the words, and definitions of any phrases, that are not obvious, need to be there. The grammar does not need to be there; it can always be put off to later sentences.
Assuming you have the notes:
1) look over the notes for the first sentence to the point you have some grasp about the meaning of the sentence.
2) Listen to that first sentence 3 times while reading it. You are listening for understanding.
3) glance at the notes again if needed.
4) Listen 3 more times, with eyes closed this time. Listen for understanding.
5) repeat the above steps, one more time, then go on to the next sentence.
Spend between 1 to 4 half hour sessions per day doing readthrus. Each day, spend half your time going over previous sentences, half the time going over new material.
This sounds like using Anki or flash cards with sentences. That is what I do. I find it helps learning words in context, and it helps with grammar.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Similar. But, are you listening to the story you are learning passively for several hours per day? If not, you are wasting 80% of your time. That is because the passive listening boosts the learning rate 5 times over.
And what are you doing for ear tuning? Working with the sentences, listening to them a lot, helps. But doing regular ear tuning exercises works a hundred times faster to get the ear to native. And, the more native the ear, the quicker you pick up the language; both from the passive listening and the verbal work you do with those sentences.
@@LeeSohlden I have several techniques. With French I could understand the transcipt but not the speech. So I spend an hour a day reading the transcript while listening. I also do free listening with no transcript. The aim is to train my brain to associate sounds to words, but as they are actually spoken. At first I understood only documentaries and news reports which are very clear. Then I understood films dubbed into French. Now I’m starting to understand French films in French, and casual interviews i.e. not trained presenters. I harvest phrases from these sessions for use in Anki. I also do some study when needed. For example, sometimes I can’t figure out a phrase, so I slowly work through it. Sometimes I google to find images to aid association. I struggle with prepositions e.g. Le train de voyageurs, La trousse à couture. I still struggle with some speakers who munch their words. Speaking fast is not such an issue if it’s clear. It is a slow gradual process of training the brain.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ What you are doing will work over time. Its just much quicker using my ear tuning exercises. For French, the ear of an English speaker tunes into French four days after beginning ear tuning exercises. That is four days, with doing an hour of ear tuning exercises each day; along with several hours of passive listening each day.
From there, continual daily ear tuning exercises work to rapidly get the ear to native level. After the first week, you just need ten minutes a day of the ear tuning exercises. Then eventually, just five minutes per day.
Note, the passive listening, several hours per day of it, never stops. Passive listening just means you choose to be playing French as the background noise around you. Half, at least, of the passive listening, should be to items you are trying to learn.
@@LeeSohlden What makes you such an expert? As for your method, part of ear tuning is learning to pick up common phrases, and word combinations, I don’t believe your claims as to the efficacy of your method. Where is the independent validation, or at least the evidence? The internet is full of self proclaimed experts peddling a miracle method.
11:20 Ah oui, ce fameux désaccord sur l’apprentissage des langues parmi les scientifiques c’est vraiment ennuyant…🙃 Ce n'est pas pour être importun, mais je me demandais si un jour tu pourrais converser avec quelqu'un d'entre eux, ce serait cool… Those are rather pro Krashen’s approach guys. Joel from jan Telakoman, Elise from Hyperpolyglotting with Élise, James from Future Multilingual, Vladimir from Virtually Native, just to name a few…
Merci et bonne continuation...
J'ai un entretien avec Jeff McQuillan dans 2 semaines.
@@loistalagrand Hey Lois.
It would be interesting to hear his opinion on reading and listening efficiency. I mean which way of getting input is more effective and efficient for an adult language learner. What gives us more benefits one hour of reading or one hour of listening?
Teachers will still have a role! Everything you can learn, you can learn online for free, and you can learn in libraries for free. People still pay teachers to teach them.
Yes, I think so.
Wow. Didn't know that Stephen King was a linguist too apart from being a writer.
Is there anyone who can help me to introduce a few Universtity students from North America. I have some teenagers who want to learn/practise English with them.
what is the TLDR of this video. pretty long video.
There’re plenty of AI summary tools out there. Just wanna point out: reading TLDR only is just a waste of time, why bother if ya gonna forget anyway. The only effective way of using TLDR, is to sit through the whole learning process and spend the time writing up a TLDR afterwards for yourself. This is essential the Feynman method. The false assumption that one can “learn” by reading condensed gist of information is harmful. It’s the junk food of this “infobesity” era. We can only process that information, but we can’t learn from it.
@@vincentcheung1876 God save society from the Twitter plague :chuckles: The lack of ability to focus and persist will eventually drag us back down to an agrarian level as the expert skills required to maintain technological civilisation will be lost.
Listen to it in chunks
@7:37 ProNOUNCEiation? Really? Language learning expert? Please tell me he was being ironic. (Hint:I don't think so)
Isn't that how people say it in New Zealand?
wtf bon jovi has a degree in linguistics woow.
Hahahaha that cracked me up
😂😂😂
Honestly, hearing that he learns French by using Duolingo makes his opinion a bit less trustworthy. Also, SK says that learning grammar or in other words looking for the syntax while we are reading or listening to something, etc. is only good to create a system that helps to self-check what we wrote - because when you speak you just don't have the time to do so - but by doing this you might be able to get more input/repetition with the thing where you have issues - but it is kind just a small thing next to the fact that comprehensible input is the number one, most important thing when we would like to acquire a language. So he talks about what Jonathan talks about here. I think grammar and vocab drills can make our input more comprehensible - so they can help, but it always comes down to comprehensible input.
You guys seem to struggle coming to a point.
How so?
@@loistalagrand Sometimes it's like your guest is talking about some points for the first time in his life and his is rambling instead of presentation a clear vision.
@@Reflekt0r Newton, blah
I have met Newton at conference in Malaysia. I found him a most unpleasant person. He deals mostly with very advanced learners of English and doesn't know very much about dealing with EFL beginners OK, he might have done it at the beginning of his career for a bit in China. Look to the latest versions of grammar in formal linguistics--THERE ARE NO RULES.
Language and the mind, yeah it's not good for you. Integration of facial muscles, mental faculties, neurons and going blah blah.
Post 1 of 3 on this.
Natural language acquisition, done right, takes very little time. Who does it right? Anyone I have taught my system to. (about a thousand people at this point.)
Here is how it goes:
You get into 3 daily habits.
One, at least 3 hours per day passively listening to a story in your target language, which you are working on learning. This takes no time, as passive listening means it is playing as background noise but you are paying no attention at all to it at all, as you go about your normal day.
Two, do ear tuning exercises, an invention of mine. I'll use English as an example. Here are 30 seconds worth of ear tuning syllables: "Thu maen was ser preizd too see ev ree wun in such a her ee. But then hee saw that smok wuz cum ming frum the dis tuns. Soon thayr wuz flaymz, then heet frum thu flaymz. Luk i lee, aefter run ning for u bit, hee saw hiz gerl frend wiTH her car aend wuz ay bL too escayp"
You listen to the ear tuning syllable 120 times per day (from the audiobook they come from.) Half the time, listen with eyes closed. Half the time, use your eyes to attempt to follow the voice, attempting to keep your eyes on the exact syllable being spoken at any exact moment.
After a couple of days, the student's ear is tuned to english. But, the student is to keep doing daily ear tuning exercises, though less and less. And the student never stops the passive listening.
This is post 2 0f 3 on this.
Ok, you are doing several hours of passive listening per day - habit one. And doing some ear tuning exercises each day - habit 2.
The 3rd, and final, habit is associations. This is where you tie in the words from the story to your native language. For this, you will need some notes. You can create your own, or ask for help. I'll be glad to help with any of the 20 languages I teach. I never charge anyone for anything, languages are just a hobby for me.
I call the way I do associations "readthrus." For this, you need notes, sentence by sentence, for the story you are listening to. The notes should be brief, although most likely the notes for the very first sentences will tend to be a bit longer. Some grammar can be introduced, but avoid putting too much grammar in the notes for any one sentence. The definitions of the words, and definitions of any phrases, that are not obvious, need to be there. The grammar does not need to be there; it can always be put off to later sentences.
Assuming you have the notes:
1) look over the notes for the first sentence to the point you have some grasp about the meaning of the sentence.
2) Listen to that first sentence 3 times while reading it. You are listening for understanding.
3) glance at the notes again if needed.
4) Listen 3 more times, with eyes closed this time. Listen for understanding.
5) repeat the above steps, one more time, then go on to the next sentence.
Spend between 1 to 4 half hour sessions per day doing readthrus. Each day, spend half your time going over previous sentences, half the time going over new material.
Post 3 of 3 on this.
Please read the other 2 parts first.
As I said, natural language acquisition, when done right (using my system as described in parts 1 and 2), takes very little time. So, I suggest you just do my system for a few weeks, then, while continuing my system, start looking for people whom to talk to in your target language.
The system works for all 20 languages I teach. For Mandarin, another step is needed, ear tuning to the tones only, before ear tuning to the whole content of the words.
I discovered my system, mostly by accident, from Dec 2018 to March 2019. I did have several insights along the way as well, and some help from my language partners.
To those who are skeptical: It takes so little time to try my system, that it is nonsensical to argue about it. Nothing about my system is going to waste your time,nor hurt in any way your study of your language. What harm in playing a story in the target language as your choice for background noise? My ear tuning exercises work so fast they will amaze you a couple of hours into doing them.
The third part, doing associations, is part of any study of a language; my way has a very strong listening component.
The result of doing my system: After getting all this input, and with a very sharp ear for the language, the student finds it rather easy to pronounce things right. What you hear right, you can repeat right. The student also, rather quickly, has an immense vocabulary in the language - for listening and reading. For speaking, you have to actually start speaking. A lot of it is automatic, but you do at some point have to start speaking the language with someone to get good at it. Native speakers will appreciate how well you understand them, and have much more patience with you when they converse with you.
I can’t speak for others, but for me language learning is a slow process. Learning words is the key problem, it takes me ages. As for tuning my ear, it takes me hundreds of hours of listening.
@@StillAliveAndKicking_ I've cut ear tuning into a two hour process, for most languages.
This is something I stumbled upon. It started when I noticed that my ear had tuned into Brazilian Portuguese, at the common phrase level, after months of working with common phrase videos. Three languages that were secondary studies for me at the time, Korean, Arabic, and Russian, I was introducing the common phrases with Brazilian Portuguese.
How did I notice? My language partner for Brazilian Portuguese had been off traveling and out of touch for a couple of months. When he got back, I repeated the common phrases to him for Brazilian Portuguese. He said my pronunciation was flawless, save just a hint of american accent. Now, when he left two months earlier, my pronunciation was horrible. I spoke no Portuguese during his absence. I simply had been working, extensively, with those common phrase videos. (repeatedly listening with eyes closed or listening while reading.) I had a simple insight - my ear must have tuned in, or how else could I have suddenly been saying things right?
I examined what happened -then repeated the "experiment" with 3 languages still very tough for me to hear - Russia, Arabic, and Korean. One at a time, I greatly increased how much daily work I did for the language and how much passive listening I did. It worked - two days for each language.
Later, I tried the technique on full speed Spanish, only hoping it might help a little. In two days, my ear tuned into full speed Spanish.
Now a days, if I learn a language, ear tuning comes first.