When Stats No Longer Match The Eye Test
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2024
- When looking at the box score, Tyrese Haliburton's playoff debut has been underwhelming... but the tape shows an entirely different story.
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Tyrese the kind of guy to average 15ppg,11 asts per game, 100% team chemistry, A+ teammate grade, 25 passes leading to assists. He’s modern day Steve Nash.
True Steve Nash was actually a scoring threat so this is accurate
Jokic is #1, #2 can be Haliburton and a couple other contenders. Who else has a play style where a large component is setting traps, always making the right reads and thinking 5 steps ahead of everyone else?
"Hockey assists" need to be counted in basketball.
Russ averaged 30-10
@@mihiyouth12 No one mentioned Russ lol + he also averaged like 30 shots a game and 6 turnovers. Hes a hall of famer but just because he put up bigger numbers doesnt mean hes better than a guy like Nash was
This game was the first time I've watched Haliburton play and he gained a huge fan. To me, theres nothing more beautiful to watch than a guy that puts all his efforts into setting his teammates up to get good shots. I didn't know PGs like this existed anymore. Old school PG like Nash, CP3, Rondo, Stockton.
He had some big games earlier in the season especially before his hamstring injury. Check him out he cold
@Urwrong555 So not only do you make an assumption about me for no apparent reason, but you also make a guarantee about it lol. I ain't that old my boy, I know you're used to dealing with a bunch of old hating ass mfers but that ain't me. I think today's players are far more talented and skilled than anytime in the past and Lebron is better than Jordan.
Tray young and Fox good floor generals too...nice with the dimes and break defenses down
@@tonyfortune346yes but the notion still stands that you completely thought an archetype was gone before even watching. While you are a fan and can appreciate both but most old heads are like this but instead of giving it a shot they’ll just trash on the game lol
@Quentinthemudkip Are you familiar with the term hyperbole? This is the problem with social media. I make a comment showing love and appreciation for a player and somebody will find a way to bring negativity into it. If you want to argue let's argue about something that you didn't make up in your head.
His shooting has been off since his injury but Hali’s best attribute has been creating shots and running the offense. He doesn’t need to be a high volume scorer, he just needs to be able to hit his shots. Even if he only takes 8-10 shots a game
I get what you’re saying and agree for the most part but against the Knicks and Celtics, he’s gonna need to be an efficient scorer as well and since the injury, he’s not been that.
@@svk_5104 oh for sure, but at the same time the knicks & Celtics are just better teams in general. Like even if he averaged 25 on 65% I don’t see them winning. Honestly if Giannis wasn’t out I wouldn’t have seen them winning this series either, now dame is gonna be out aswell so they’re gonna have a easy round
@@Shxdow.Entertainment well then you’re kind of contradicting yourself because he does need to be a high volume scorer in order to stand a even a slight chance.
@@svk_5104They don’t stand a chance either way, it’s the pacers lmaoo
The basketball IQ on display is crazy. He ain't Magic or Jokic who makes passes that don't look like they should exist or see the future before it happens, but he's as good as it gets when it comes to making the calculations on the spot.
No
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268shut up
hali is one of the most entertaining transition guards oat
i agree meal
Yeah he is, but no one compares to Magic running a break
But he needs to stop jacking up threes. He is not an elite 3 pointer
@@NmixxKyujin29 I mean the kid averaged 40% from 3 this year before he got injured and the rest of his career he has been a 40 from deep guy. I don't think he should stop jacking up threes because, his role in facilitating to Siakim and the Pacers hasnt change. But, I think he just has to regain his confidence for scoring. In case they do need him in a deeper run. And that takes time post injury.
hali is...QuakerOats b/c he servin' them up!
12 assist, 10 hockey assist, and probably another 10 or more “hockey assist” that takes one extra pass *swing swing score*. Bro generating so much offense that’s left off the stat sheet
thatd be cool if they kept track of hockey assists because it would help visualize the gravity a player has on the floor offensively a lot better, if a player has insane positioning and playmaking theyd have a bunch of assists AND hockey assists and the gravity the player has ie haliburton could be seen better on a stat sheet
@@LUCKIPUPLuka and 🃏 would be 30 plus
I love Halliburton. All about winning and I’m glad he’s getting respect he deserves
Hali is a great player -- like Nash. But ALSO it helps that Bucks are missing Giannis and hired Glenn Rivers.
@@jlui214-1 against the bucks with giannis, and that was all before siakam was on the squad. When the pacers play the bucks the strategy is to let the best players take as many tough shots as they want while forcing the roll players to step up and they almost never do. Dame plus giannis is rarely generating enough points to win against our team offense approach.
4:01 bro that pass fake is actually basketball masterclass
some rondo shit
The most unselfish Point I've seen, he's thinking at a different level. Carlisle gives him reign to do his own plays.....I repeat Carlisle gives him a blank check. Rick Carlisle has never, ever done that. He's always in control, but not with Haliburton, he knows he can't match what Haliburton sees himself just like you talk about in the video. This is a masterclass on how to distribute the basketball after manipulating the defense, and at the same time, a brilliant breakdown of Haliburton. Bravo Hoop Venue....you knocked this one out. SUBSCRIBED!!
Glad you enjoyed!
Hoop Venue…your clarity is unrivaled. I’ll have to thank those Need Sesh guys for sending me here.
The value of a true point guard will always be felt. The NBA today is too enamoured by shot creators and stat padders.
If the shots Hali gets off the dribble from deep to fall consistently again it’s gonna get scary
I like watching him play unselfish basketball. He's the star of his team because of his playmaking skills which is rare. He's such a good fit for the pacers, it makes me wonder what other players could become stars if they got a trade to the right team.
Just a fantastic video that everyone should remember when they think they can judge impact solely with the box score
Love to see it, when the stats don’t match the play.. this is why you gotta watch the games
It's wild when you stop and think of how much Haliburton reads from defenses AND how he's able to break defenses down seemingly effortlessly.
Most fans (including myself) don't see everything he does in real time during games. Thus, we tend to only look at stats and think Tyrese just had a bad game when he scores in single digits or the low teens, especially if his assistants don't truly reflect his passing abilities. But my goodness! This video breaks down just how good he is in read/react situations and most times, he's not even passi g to the teammate the defense thinks he's going to pass the ball to.
Tyrese Haliburton is one fun point guard to watch. What he does on the court is just spectacular.
He’s such an intelligent player, and to do it at the speed he moves at is even more impressive
Keep up the great content! It’s time before you blow up big
This was a beautiful breakdown exactly why I say he’s the best pure point guard in the league but every one falls in love with scoring point guards but forget what a real point guard looks like
Great analysis, you earned my sub.
THANK YOU for this video 👏
The beauty in his game is 100% trust in his teammates to make the correct read to find open players. Hockey Assist will always be underrated in players and this assist makes teams better. Love his game
bro's a flashy john stockton, gotta respect that
We done with the 90s. He’s a Stockton that can actually play basketball
Better scorer than Stockton. Don’t let the shooting slump fool you
@@tw7321stop
I don’t think he really plays much like John, but he’s somewhat similar
@@tw7321
Ya that Michael Jordan guy really couldn’t play for shit
Stats can easily track this, just shows how behind in statistical analysis basketball is compared to say football (soccer for you Americans). In football there is multiple stats for this
How would you create a stat that tracks making the right reads in playmaking?
@@Loca-hi1fs box plus/minus
First time watching. Big w breakdown.
Recently found your channel and I love your analysis. Every bit as detailed and insightful as Thinking Basketball among others. My only suggestion would be to have some light background music. Otherwise, keep doing what you’re doing, I love the content.
i typically listen to music while watching yt so this channel works specifically well for me lol
he used to have this same annoying background music, thank god he removed it, It's much better right now
am I crazy I’m hearing background music rn
You're right, but it's much quieter and also not the same as previous videos
Thanks for making this video. Haliburton is getting disrespected in the playoffs because he's not putting up monster stats, but literally every team zeros in on him defensively. He constantly draws attempted double teams and opposing defenders constantly come way off their assignments to help guard him when he beats his initial defender. His stats were unreal during November and December, and then he got injured and was on a minutes restriction for a long time once he returned. That really negatively affected his on-paper stats, but he's still so incredible.
As a bucks fan, it hurts watching this lol.
You got a new in me with this video. Great explanation of how ridiculously awesome Haliburton truly is.
Go Pacers!
3:30 I love how hype is teammates are when hits that shot, team chemistry is crazy with the pacers
Great video bro
Halliburton gotta be the coolest and most interesting player I have watched. He manipulates the defense like Luka but, with playmaking like Magic instead of scoring. High IQ, deception, and fundamentals. It’s beautiful.
Great video. You definitely know what you're talking about.
Don’t tell me he shouldn’t have been on Team USA. He will have that team HUMMING whenever he’s on the floor.
He was amazing in FIBA!
@@HoopVenue nobody wants to talk about that though!
Hella insightful. Helps me see his game in a different light and I can appreciate his philosophy when he’s running the offense.
Having said that, 6 point vs NY game 1 is some bullshit 😂
Stats vs eye test is just Tim Duncan
One thing I was happy to see from Hali was his ability to utilize his size at PG to get rebounds, get to the paint to score and play better defense in game 3, if he does those things consistently going forward we’ll see another level out of him for years to come
6:00 THIS PASS SO CRAZY 😳😳😮💨
He is a top 15 player for sure… deserves All NBA
He has some Steve Nash in him. Really love watching him.
fire vid 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 I was just arguing to my friend I rather have Hal over la melo n this vi just makes me love him more
His game reminds me a lot of CP3 back in the lob City Clippers Days. He's doing more with worse. Obi and the wings are just getting open looks. Hali's stats are underinflated, his teammates states are overinflated. Would love to see him and Trae play with more athletic bigs like John Collins once was. Zion and Hali would be a crazy duo.
Even if you aren’t a pacers fan, you gotta admit, the pacers have the most pure offense in the league. A well rounded pass first team that is a threat anywhere on the court, it’s almost perfect offense. What really gets them is their defense, Siakam is the only good defensive starter on the team. If they had good defense this would be a team worthy of a ring, but until then, ima have to keep hoping.
Halliburton reminds me of a young Magic Johnson
As a Tyrese haliburton fan I love to see this man getting the respect he deserves I’ve been a Hali fan since his days in Sacramento and I always thought he would’ve been chosen over fox but now that he’s Indy (my home state) I can’t stop watching him
W vid! this was cool to watch
Hopefully they advance deeper in the playoffs I want to see him play against a better defensive team. To see how he’ll overcome those challenges.
Great video
Nobody else really has this level of team chemistry like the Pacers which is why they are so fun to watch
Hali is amazing. It would be better for him if he added a little bit more muscle though he could legit be mvp then lol
That no look to Siakam was a thing of beauty.
Tyrese Haliburton NEW PURE PG his GENERATION
"9 Minutes Of Lopez Getting Cooked By Halliburton"
Bucks fan here, Lopez has been cooked for a year and a half
Playmaking, leadership, defense are some of the most underrated and underappreciated skills in the NBA. These skills can not be seen on the stat sheet yet it impacts the game big time especially in the 4th qtr. Sure, that is wat the coach is usually for but its much different when a player on the court can do the same. Players making other players better. If you got one of those, youve got a recipe for success especially in the playoffs. Keep rockin it steady.
great vid! casuals only look at the box score scoring numbers and will say brunson / lillard are way better. But tyrese plays such a different game... he's commanding the floor at all times
Glad you enjoyed!
Hali is cold asf but don’t get carried away, he’s not fucking with Brunson . Brunson is that guy
@@leonardo_da_g9168 yeah brunson on another level, as a diehard pacers fan
Hali was +33 in the minutes he was on the floor in games 2 and 3. Thats the only stat you need to know.
Having watched him play 2k with Dom. He plays the same way!!!
Hali sets up the assisit with an assisit by collapsing the defense. When he jumps in the air he creates new passing lanes. He is special.
Thats what i was thinking. I keep checking his stats and im like meh but its in Ws so whatever hes doing its working
Hopefully we get a vid on my Sixers after we tie up the series this evening. 🗣️
Welp.
@@noahamankwaah9802 pain 😭
Tyrese is the engine of the team
Seeing goons on Twitter acting like Ty isn't balling. He is THE reason our offense works as well as it does lol. Part of it is the system, of course, but to say he's not good means (a) you know nothing about basketball or (b) you haven't watched any of the games.
He is the system
Caitlin clark, anthony richardson, tyrese haliburton.. indy sports in great hands
Tyrese Haliburton is a basketball neurosurgeon. Got to watch him against the Sixers all year on the local channels. It was a fucking joy even as a rival fan.
Moving defenders while on attack is a tactic of hockey forwards. Expected top draft pick Ivan Demidov is good at this. Maybe the best way to acknowledge this ability in basketball statistics would be to add a "hockey assist" stat (the third-to-last person to touch the puck before a goal), also it is odd and unscientific that assists in basketball are awarded only in about 50% of made field goals (in hockey, the second-to-last player to even touch the puck on any goal is credited with an assist, as well as the third-to-last player).
If Orlando Magic had a player with that vision we would be a problem
12 dimes pretty good nobody would say differently
excellent video
What's even more impressive is how few turnovers he has
Man Westbrook is gonna sue you for this video. Great Job!
This is where the plus minus in comparison to his teammates comes in handy. To me, that's always been the most important stat but it's also flawed for bench players who might have minutes with a terrible backup.
My boy is a modern Rondo
Im not gonna lie. Im one of those dudes that underrates Haliburton because of his weak playoff numbers. But he is great to watch. Also im a Bucks fan so i am definitely biased against him
He's the perfect point guard. Would've been a dream to have him on my Spurs, but we drafted Devin Vassell. At least we have wemby.
i didnt notice how much hali has been cooking lopez all series
Players whose impact don't truly show up on the stats/eye test are pretty scary. I was surprised to learn that SGA is an MVP candidate this year because when I watch him, I don't see a lot of things that are impressive, and his stats on 2K seem pretty low for the overall he has. But the guy is really a demon 😂
Bro is making me like my hometown team again. Like sheesh. Haven’t liked them since wade entered the league in 03’ here I am rooting for Kyrie now, and hoping the pacers make it to the next round instead of my cavs or heat teams 😂😂
Myles Turner looking like prime Bosh these days, part of that is surely Hali's credit
such an obvious statement. of course malcolm brogdan, who runs iso and wanted to be the alpha for the pacers, isn't going to spread the ball around it's not his nature. brogdan and even oladipo were toxic chemistry for the pacers. turner has always been this good but was pushed out as an offensive option. so glad they chose him over sabonis.
@@chewie51 Yeah I know it's not rocket science, I'm just surprised to see him so effective offensively, I always saw him more as deandre jordan than bosh. Sometimes we forget how these players are incredibly good and just need the right playstyle, stage and touches for them to shine. Also I don't think I ever watched an Indiana regular season game lol
That boy remind me of me 😂😂… just the nba version tf 😂😂
Let's pair him with Wembanyama if you want to see the new generation of greatness. This might become a legendary duo if it happens
Hali is my guy I been cookin wit em ok 2k he's practically unstoppable off high ball screens been following him since Iowa state.i knew after his injury he would drop in the draft but it worked out kuz he got picked up by a great team that jus needed a star to elevate their game play and that's exactly what happen. Now that they have siakam and top I know alot of teams are gunna have trouble with the pacers
usually this affects +/- right?
I love watching this team play
The pacers have either Utahs(top 10 protected), the clippers, or Houstons first this year. If its utah or houston they would likely be in the lottery which means they could get a good all around forward to pair with hali and a replacement if Siakam does not resign. I would love to see them pick up either matas buzelis or tyler smith (both out of g league ignite).
Pacers traded that pick for Siakam
@@JasonBeatty I thought it was only their own and the clippers. I thought they had Utah’s still
Modern John Stockton
True mvp
HOOOPPPP!!
imagine how deadly team usa will be with haliburton as the guard
Hali Siakam is a fire duo. Based on skill IQ and finesse, everything that is great about the game. The ethical hoops duo
thats what many dont get, making your teammates better doesnt necesary have to do with assists.
Thats why i never liked the Lebron makes his teammates better, and the reasonin was allways his assist and i thought thats not what its about.
crazy
Tyrese Halibruton 🔥🔥 🔥 let's gooooo PACERS.
So do you think they have a shot against New York bcz I don’t 😭
Pls make a steve nash video
Stats do match the eye test if you look at the right ones.
If he can find his shot and iso game this team may have a better chance at the Knicks/76ers than they're getting credit for
Comeback here if they reach ECF
@@KacciVAL they’re not moving me rn 😂
That stat that would represent the value you are describing is Box+- ...that stat is affected by things you mention
Box +/- is just a combination of the box score, does not include hockey assists, extra passes, shot quality of teammates, etc.
It does include it because the box score is affected
Influencing the box score in any way contributes to having a good or bad bpm...this stat he was 5th this season
All those little things he does in this video ultimately affects the box score whether it's setting the screen to create an open shot or taking charges on defense...valuable players that consistently do things will contribute to that overall bpm...making Haliburton the 5th biggest difference maker on the court during his time on the court
@@deonlepharaohThe BPM formula is public brother. His individual score will barely be affected for “making the right play” if it doesn’t actually produce a box score stat.
That’s why most analytical people are drawn more towards lineup based metrics like RAPM.
I want to see him get back to being more aggressive hunting his own shot, that’s what made him an all nba caliber player
That's if his shots fall
Bro its like you missed the point of the entire video. Hali brings alot more to the game than just scoring
@@jdrmanmusiqkingobviously. But when he is scoring too he’s an All NBA player. He was averaging 27 at one point this season on great efficiency, while being the same amazing passer.
@@king_supreme1102 They traded for a ball dominant scorer in Pascal Siakam so of course the POINT GUARD'S scoring goes down. Its more important for the POINT GUARD to get the new guy and the rest of the team acclimated to each other
This isn't 2k bro. Chemistry has to be built and it was just easier for Hali to take a back seat. Pascal is pretty much the #1 option now on that team
@@jdrmanmusiqking Trust me I’m aware. I’m a Pacers fan. Doesn’t change the fact that his shooting has been bad for a while and his aggression has pretty much disappeared.
its a shame hali got injured. he's playing well right now, but before the injury he was at an all-nba level
it was a hamstring strain not that deep. maybe the fact siakam came in and you have to acclimate to another star player. to me it looked like tyrese was worried about his shine at first but has settled in. because let's be real and face it he likes the spotlight and being the center of attention 'point god'.
@@chewie51 recovering from an injury is not just about healing but also about finding the rhythm you had before you got hurt.
all of us (except for all of sports media, and Lebron) already knew that stats can't truly measure impact